Associate Life Survey: Real Summer Associate Assignments?
We received about 700 responses to last week’s ATL / Lateral Link survey, on whether summer associates are getting enough real work.
Not surprisingly, there’s a bit of a disconnect between summer associate perceptions and those of practicing attorneys. A whopping 91% of summer associates thought that they were getting real work this summer. But only 57% of practicing attorneys agreed. Among more senior attorneys (Class of 2002 or senior), that number dropped to 43%. One summer associate had a modest, nuanced view:
While there is no question that much of what I do could be done more quickly by a real associate, it appears as if what I do actually has some value. Of course, I may be overestimating that value.
Give that guy an offer.
Read more, after the jump.
Most of the summer assignments involve legal research and memo writing, some of which is described by supervising associates as “research memos I don’t want to do” or “projects that have been on my to-do list for months”, but some of which falls into the category of “legal research assignments for real cases that needs to be done” or “memos on issues central to litigation.” A fair number of summer associates in litigation practices are also writing sections of briefs, motions in limine, or jury instructions, while some lucky summer associates in transactional practices are getting to do due diligence and closing schedules. One poor associate suggested what sounds like a pretty typical pro bono assignment, researching the general fiduciary obligations of a 501(c)(3)’s board of directors, but found that “none of the summers have wanted it thus far, which kind of screws me over.”
In line with the photo above, 61% of summer associates actually don’t think their firms should give them more real work. An even higher percentage of practicing attorneys agree. Only 38% of midlevel associates (Class of 2003 to 2005) think that summer associates should get more real assignments. Among more junior associates, however, that number drops to 25%, possibly because older associates are giving the summers “first year associate assignments.” Senior attorneys are even more skeptical, with only 22% wanting to give the summer associates more real work.
Generally speaking, the attorneys who think summer associates should get more real work recommend giving the summers more assignments that “you would give to a first-year,” with some calling for document review and due diligence — the Scylla and Charybdis of the junior associate experience — but most recommending more writing assignments, including “actual client documents or briefs - instead of the ubiquitous ‘research memo’ that will never be read by anyone.” On the transactional side, respondents suggested closing documents, schedules to agreements, and “basic training in dealing with typical corporate documents” like merger agreements.
Summer associates, in turn, call for “anything other than 50-state surveys” or “anything that’s not totally abstract background reserach [sic] that might someday but probably never get used”, with several calling for the same kind of work that first-year associates get — with some even asking for document review and due diligence. Interestingly, while pro bono work has historically been seen as a great training opportunity for junior associates and a great source of writing assignments for summers, a few law students beg to differ. As one summer associate laments:
I’ve had enough pro bono. I have no idea what one of our practice groups that I’m interested in actually does because I can’t get work from them.
Or, as another less-than-charitable commenter put it:
At least something related to my practice area. Pro bono is not part of my practice area.
Fair complaint, or unseasonably Grinchy?
—
Justin Bernold is a Director at Lateral Link, the sponsor of this Associate Life Survey.
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poopin' in a hat
First...
to say summer associates don't know shit and should shut up about the 'quality' of the work they are getting
bernold lose the cat, it sucks! also though summers may not know what they are doing, however, do they really know that much less (if at all) than first years? that being the case, that they in fact are just as knowledgable as a first year, they should get work equal to first years. of course there are always a few stars who surely deserve work and of course the contrary exists as well
Fair complaint about the work but it's a tough year for a lot of groups. Plus, every survey of law students says that they're all really interested in pro bono, so firms lined up a lot of it for this summer.
If there's no billable work summers have to do something; at least the pro bono is useful and helps people.
And please keep all LOLcats.
My practice area this summer?
Cashing checks
lose the cat now!
I'd be pissed if all I got was pro bono work. Summers usually don't know much about the different practice areas within the firm, and the summer gives them a chance to experience most, if not all, of these areas during their time there so they can make an informed decision once they join the firm.
Pro bono assignments for summer associates are ways for associates to do the least amount of work while "supervising" on the matter. It's a waste of time for the summer and is a disingenious way for the associate to claim pro bono work. It puts all the heavy lifting on a summer while allowing the associate to rack up whatever hours he/she needs to hit pro bono targets that may or may not count as billables for bonus purposes.
The only thing summers are good for, as far as "real associates" are concerned, is providing a means for the firm to pay for food, drinks and some social events. Otherwise, summer associates make great doorstops and paperweights.
9 = paralegal
tired of the cat pics
I did a bunch of work as a summer associate last year while thinking all along that I was adding tons of value. But, whenever I turned it in, I'd get a pat on the head and the same "now that's a good boy" look you give your puppy when he craps in the yard for the first time instead of on the kitchen floor. Something tells me it may not have been real work.
#12
At least you got that pat on the head. I turned in an assignment last week and had my face rubbed in it.
Keep the cats.
Can there please, please be a few more stories this morning about over-earnest, self-righteous law students having an opinion about what it should be like to work in a law firm when they have NO REAL CLUE about what being a real attorney actually entails?
-- http://www.bitterlawyer.com/index.php/columns_detail_comment/bil/?cat_id=6
-- http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/07/21/dont-wear-flip-flops-and-other-advice-for-summer-associates/
I mean, maybe just a couple more? You're getting paid to work like a real lawyer. Without having to actually be one. Stop. Complaining. Already.
10:
9 = '04 JD & biglaw associate
Signed, 9
If you insist on using lolcats, please make them funny.
15 = probably not a summer associate.
You make a good point, but I don't think anyone on this thread was complaining. It's tough for anyone to complain about a big law summer associate gig. I think it's been more about how naive summers are to the kind of work that they're doing and how different it is from being an actual associate.
"Stop. Complaining. Already."
Stop. Putting. Periods. At. The. End. Of. Every. Word.
You. Aren't. Cool. And. It's. Really. Annoying.
I've come to the conclusion that summers are only meant to hang around so we can decide if they are bigots, drunken a--holes, backstabbing instrumentalists, or lazy complainers. We pay them a lot for this preview of what it might be like to work with and depend on them. So far this summer I've had to redo all the real work I was gullible enough to give out to summers. My early optimism has been disappointed.
too many TTT pussy pics on this site . . .ugh. . . how bout getting one of them furballs shaved, eh Lat?
Lose the cats. The cats are queer. And not in a good way.
"general fiduciary obligations of a 501(c)(3)'s board of directors"
What the heck are you talking about? Fidi-what? Obligations?
18 = thanks, and LOL, yep, my summer associate days are long behind me :-) (For better or worse...) I do wish, though, someone had taken me aside when I was a summer and given me a clue about what I was in for -- I was 100% as confused, earnest and yes, self-righteous, as this year's batch seems to be. And it just seems that the lack of transparency re: not only work assignments for summers, but the overall experience of what being a big firm attorney will be like once they're first-years, breeds lameness (and resentment, bailing, etc.) down the line...
19 = sorry, didn't mean to annoy. Or distract you from the urgent memo on fiduciary duties you're probably working on right now. Entirely my fault.
I would imagine that the self-righteous element would depend largely on the school. The HYS kids are, on average, probably more inclined to be critical of the BigLaw firms which are beholden to their "talent" and top-flight degrees, while I bet that Tier-II kids are too glad to make it for criticism.
20: what did they do wrong? Are you sure that you're not delegating your work to the less talented and competent summer associates?
>>The only thing summers are good for, as far as "real associates" are concerned, is providing a means for the firm to pay for food, drinks and some social events. Otherwise, summer associates make great doorstops and paperweights.<<
Amen. Summer associates should STFU! These people don't know anything about anything, let alone how to practice law. Summer associates simply redo/regurgitate work that was already done by others, and go out for expensive lunches and "summer outings."
In this economy, these santimonious, pious, inexperienced nitwits should get down on their knees and thank God that someone was willing to employ their petulant asses.
The "Tier-II kids" have a much better understanding of how the system works that the kids who have everything handed to them. Its not so much gratitude as it is perspective from having had to work for something. Everyone is smart and has a critique, it is often the HYS kids who are the most bought in.
when i was a summer i got some memo writing bs, but i got some real assignments...and they were all used without edits. I got some nice compliments too...na na.
A lot of the problem is just inexperience at work. I notice a big difference in maturity between the summers who are straight through from undergrad to law school to their very first professional job at our office, and the summers who are second-career or spent even a year as a paralegal or firm clerk. I don't care where their work experience came from, I'll choose them everytime just so I don't have to explain things like "be nice to staff" and "don't badmouth coworkers, you will need them later."
#30 - Amen (even though I went straight through).
27: Why don't you actually read some of these posts. If you do, you'll realize that there aren't any summers complaining about being a summer associate. Is it their fault that the firms that hire them give them little or nothing to do, pay them a ton and take them out to lunches and happy hours all summer? Do the summers set the biglaw recruiting programs or do the firms? Please remind me.
The only people bitching on this thread seem to be associates who seem to be pissed off because they hate their job or their firm or both. I have to tell you, that ain't a summer associate's fault.
Signed,
Not A Summer Associate
As another commenter mentioned, summers need to understand how slow some groups are this year. Oh, you'd like to see more securities offerings/M&A? Yeah, so would I...and unlike you, I'm actually accountable for my hours. You don't have to explain why you only billed 30 last month -- I do.
what is HYS?
#20 - spot on. I was a lazy complainer. Those were the days.
HYS = TTT
How many hours a day are summers out there "billing"? I think I've averaged about 5 or 6 a day this summer at two different firms. Of course, that is 5-6 hours of my time, which I'm sure will be adjusted downward to account for my inexperience/incompetence. That sound about right?
37 - That sounds ideal to me. Ours are billing less on average (at least those with a transactional focus).
#30 hit it on the head. Almost all of the best-behaved summer associates had jobs between college and law school that taught them how to behave in a professional environment.
34 - HYS = Hyper Yams Sensitivity - the inability to digest sweet potatoes. It is a common malady in summer associate programs in southern law firms.
I would say that about 30% of the work I've done this summer was "real" work; that is, an attorney actually needed the work done and did not do it himself because I was doing it. I don't care whether I do "real" work or not. Even the "fake" work is stuff I haven't done before, so I learn from doing it and since it's all new to me, assignments that might make first or second years cringe actually don't make me want to take a swan dive out of my office window. I agree with whoever said that we are really here so that the partners and associates can find out wif we're social retards, drunks, or lazy pieces of shit. Also, I think the associates have a secret contest to see if they can get us too fat for the work clothes we went out and bought before the summer started.
32 = clueless pre-law student or clueless 1L/2L.
Disagree 25. Lazy, entitled kids come from all sorts of schools. Just had to give one of the summers (T14 transfer from a TTT) the "would you hand in this garbage to the senior partner?" routine after being pretty patient with him thus far. He actually started giving me a little attitude. Won't be getting an offer from my group.
At my firm, SAs are billing about 7+ hours/day on average, even excluding lunches, summer events. The weekend before last, I billed 12 hours.
29: You're a troll, but I'll bite. If you work was used without edits, your supervisor was lazy, untalented, or both. No one, no matter how talented, is good enough to do the best work straight out of the gate. If your supervisor couldn't improve your work that says more about him or her than you.
37: "Of course, that is 5-6 hours of my time, which I'm sure will be adjusted downward to account for my inexperience/incompetence. " Yes, to zero. Clients don't pay to have summer associates work on their matters.
What is TTT or T14 or HYS?
In five years' time when you're busting your ass you'll wonder why you whined about not getting "real" work as a summer associate.
45 is correct, to an extent. Summer associates do not get billed out for any of the "substantive" stuff they produce. So that memo you spent 40 hours on won't show up. However, I've seen SA time associated with helping out at a closing (if the deal/client is big enough) get billed and paid for. If a paralegal's time can be billed in that context, you should certainly be able to bill a summer's time.
48: Fair enough. I'm in our litigation group and I shouldn't have spoken for all practice groups. I know that my department does not bill clients for summer associates' work.
/s/ 45
TTT = Not T14 (at least in the eyes of most posters on here)
T14 = Top 14 School
HYS = I dunno. Harvard Law School, with a typo?
Pretty sure HYS = Harvard Yale Stanford.
HYS = Harvard, Yale, Stanford. The Big 3.
As a former summer associate and a soon-to-be associate, I have a question for all the current associates out there: Who is more annoying, a summer associate or a brand new 1st year associate?
53 - Summers, on average, hands down. First years get kicked in the nuts soon enough. Most still feel the need to be "nice" to summers' faces ("Oh, you had plans tonight? Tomorrow is fine, then! No, no, of course it's not a problem! You have fun tonight!" Gag.).
47=2
Summers = sense of entitlement + arrogance + superiority complex.
Signed,
A summer associate
As a summer, I've had one bad experience with a pretty important Senior Associate that I did a bunch of work for and ended up having my face stuck in it like dung. I screwed up, but it didnt help that I sent out comprehensive (but not incredibly long) emails to both him and his immediate subordinates a few times a day, got no response, went by their offices several times to get feedback and timeslines, nothing, and still...
anyway, i got castigated because I was actually doing "important" work and the attorney I was working with had to pick up some slack for me. Of course, if the other attorney knew how to send an email, none of this would happen. But such is life.
Anyway, a lot of the non-summers on here bitching about summers feeling entitled are prob the same associates I cant stand working with. Yeah, I'm a summer, tell me what to do. I dont mind staying late (i've never asked to duck out early), so don't bitch when I don't work on your timeline when you dont tell me what your timeline is.
Whatever, end rant. And another thing, I hate 2 hour summer lunches. Do you think I like sitting around with people I have little interest in outside of work and yammering about stuff I dont care about while eating at a resteraunt I'd normally never go to? Please, get me an everything bagel with chicken salad and let me work through lunch so I can go home early or get more work done.
#57 sounds like a hard worker and a sensible person--I sense a no-offer coming!
#57's story sounds slanted.
Lawyer's rule no. 1: if you're going to tell a persuasive story, at least make it believable.
"Do you think I like sitting around with people I have little interest in outside of work "
If you take the job, those people (and whoever you live with) will become the only people you have time to socialize with. Nobody wants to hire someone with your attitude because you turn the office into an anti-social competitive sweatshop. The bottom line is you will be at work 12 hours a day quite often, and your life will be better if you have friends there.
Those people have better, more interesting friends to go to lunch with and they sure as hell don't need to take 2 hours off billing in the middle of the day. They made an effort to get to know you and hoped you would meet them halfway. When you come back as a first year and wonder why no one ever comes to give you work, think back to your attitude now.
I spent over a dozen years working at a top firm before going to law school, so I have an idea of what kind of work summers usually perform - if any. I am now a summer at a different firm and would say that about 25% of the work I am doing is valuable/billable, but on average I work about 8 - 10 hours a day, which is more than I thought I would be working. Like #41, I dont mind if my work is valuable/billable - read? Its all pretty new to me and the people I am working for are all nice and do their best to make it interesting. I may not be drafting motions, but I have had some of my research projects emailed to co-counsel and clients and things like that.
I also think a significant part of our "work" is to manage all the firm's summer events - where we have to meet and talk with strange and, more often than not, outspoken and opinionated people at tables that are too small in restaurants we can't afford, while wondering which water glass is ours and trying not to let the associates get us too drunk. I've decided that, even having spent fifteen years in professional life, it is exhausting work to be constantly alert, pleasant, and enthusiastic. It is like a three month interview, where you can't always say what you think or give your honest opinion or even crack a joke like you would if you had already been hired and were working at your regular job.
57, I can appreciate you sentiments. Sounds like the senior might have problems with delegation. And we are probably not getting the whole story. I'll give you a couple of pointers though:
1) Pick up the phone and ask. Email is the not the exclusive form of office communication. When an associate is loaded down (which I suspect this senior was) it is alot easier to blow off an email than it is a phone call. Only under the most dire circumstances (and most weekends) will I ignore the phone. If ,firm-wide, people blow your calls off, take that as a sign. Either the firm sucks or you do.
2) Don't go around asking for feedback when people are noticeably swamped. For the associate, getting the deal done is far more important than stroking your ego, even if it is an honest attempt by you to improve your skills. I know the summer committee tells you to bug us for it, but it doesn't mean we are able to oblige your requests on demand. If it is really that important to you and the associate is really pressed for time, try setting up a time in advance. Sounds kind of formal, but it works. And it is respectful of the associate's time. Which will be remembered.
62 gives great advice, even if I wouldn't have seen it as such when I was a summer. Just wait until you get 100's of emails per day (that aren't about whether you're meeting in the lobby or at the senior's office to go for lunch), or work on something international and come in every day to 30 new emails and start the day 3 hours behind.
60 gives a very realistic view of work/life. I love it when summers say "2000 hours isn't _that_ much, it's 40 hours/week, right?" Hilarious...
I agree with 62 to the extent that you work with somebody sane. To the extent that you're working with somebody whose only goal is to blame things that go wrong on you, keep an e-mail trail.
64 has good advice.
I noticed that law firms will always have one or two people who blame others, and an email indicating otherwise is like a saving grace.
Some times I wonder if any of the people who post on these blogs every had other kinds of jobs before working in BigLaw. And I don't mean other kinds of "professional" jobs. I mean being waiting tables, working retail, doing manual labor etc. Not all of us grew up with a silver spoon in our mouths and some of us can appreciate the fact that as young associates in V10 Big Law, we will make more than both of our parents do combined, and can recognize that working very long hours might be the price you pay for being 26 and making over $160K.
Everyone stop hating on the summer associate program. For many of us, the money makes law school debt more bearable, and this is the first chance we have had to go to all these nice restaurants and to experience new cities. Some of us appreciate the work we are given, whether it is "real" or not, because we know we are at least learning something, and we understand that the summer is not representative of what is to come.
I'm just tired of entitled little brats hating on every positive comment that anyone ever makes on this site. If you hate being a lawyer so much, try a new career, or better yet, try working for minimum wage + tips. That should shut you up.
#66 nailed it.
Summers are usually whiny entitled pieces of self-absorbed trash.
66 = a poor
Summer Associate here--to be honest I don't really care what work I get, as long as I get an offer. I figure as long as I work hard and do well on the assignments given (whether the assignments are valuable or a waste of time), the summer will be a success. I think summers who complain about the type of work they are getting, will have a hard time their 1st year--because I have seen the assignments first years get and it isn't that exciting.
62 here. My comments notwithstanding, the CYA advice should be noted. There are certainly situations where that is necessary. Unfortunately, it is up to summer to find out when. But if you are having trouble even getting through to someone, the phone is a better place to start. If you are that worried about getting thrown under the bus by the person you are working for, then follow up the phone with an email correspondence. Generally, as a summer, try not to make CYA your first and foremost priority. Firms already know who their jerks are and who would throw (or has thrown) a summer under the bus. Good firms usually try to keep the summers far away from those people. Sometimes it cannot be avoided though.
The same advice should not be followed as a permanent associate. Within the bounds of ethics, always look out for yourself first.
I would guess that, while about 70% of the hours I bill are technically billable to clients, only about 10-25% of what I do is real work that clients will ever benefit from. And that's just fine by me, because I don't know enough to do that much "real" work, and none of the associates have any business depending on someone as inexperienced as me.
And I don't mind when I'm tasked with a research memo. Even if I'm told that it's "for a client," I know that it's really for me - both to keep me busy and to educate me. No partner or senior associate will ever read the memo I'm writing, but I'll do the research and I'll pick things up along the way that will be relevant down the line when I actually know enough to do "real work."
By the by - I second the thought that Tier II summers are less entitled and work harder than T14 summers. The most self-righteous, whining, complaining, over-entitled summer at my firm also happens to be the only HYS summer there... He/she seems to be under the impression that the firm owes something to summers, and that the firm has some responsibility to respond to our demands.
Fuck that - in this economy, I'm taking what I can get and being thankful for it. There's no doubt about who has the power in the firm-vs-summer relationship right now - unfortunately, it seems like the higher your school is ranked, the longer it takes you to figure that out.
I've been pretty happy with the work I've gotten. Most from the practice area I want to work with ranging from memos to discovery requests to now drafting two motions. Also gotten some corporate and IP work. We've got a small class and other than a day or two everyone has had work all summer.
The best assignment so far was when a memo that I was told was for a client was actually given to the client by the Partner who assigned it. That was pretty cool to watch and frightening because, what the hell do I know that you should be giving to a client?
No associate at any large lawfirm does any real legal work. Stop drinking the kool-aid. Before you know it you'll be an 8th year associate that knows nothing except paper shuffling and kissing partner ass.
Tier II 1L summer here representing...
This summer I wrote one appellate brief (including perfection of the ROA and all that fun stuff), wrote one response to post-trial motions, killed a bunch of opposing counsel's summary judgment motions, wrote more motions-in-limine than I can count, and am about to start on my second appellate brief. And no, none of them required more than minimal edits from the partners I turned them into before being submitted to the courts and, for the most part, winning our cases. I don't think I've ever done a research memo.
Quit whining, HYS and Tier 1. Next year when I'm a BigLaw summer associate, I know I won't be.