hmm

I love it when i see the siren

Lawyers aren't fungible?

I'd really like to hear from 5th and 6th year associates: is there anything you do that you couldn't explain to a 5th year in another practice group in a matter of weeks?

I've always thought that was a hilarious conceit of partners.

Wow. Anyone who was thinking of lateralling from their firm just got 96 other resumes to contend with.

White actually used the term "fungible"?

Ew buoy.

Go work for a slip-n-fall before you interview at CWT, kids.

where will the laid off 5th year real-estate associate find employment? 5th year to 160k?

White actually used the term "fungible"?

Ew buoy.

Go work for a slip-n-fall before you interview at CWT, kids.

#4, you can't duplicate 5 years' worth of case reading and mastery in 2 weeks.

Awful. I'd take a job anywhere other than Cadawalder after this....including McDonald's.

#9 I hope that was sarcasm...if not...clitigators do it all the time.

I have no sympathy. Like Bear Stearns, like Fannie and Freddie, CWT overspent and acted like they could keep up with the big boys, when in reality the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes. Employees picked an unstable firm for the present $ rather than the future sustainability. No sympathy here.

9:43,

no client will want to pay a 5th year in real estate's billing rate to get caught up in a week nor are the easily adaptable to other practice areas. no go back to preping for torts.

Alex > Cadwalader

Maybe you can't do it in 2 weeks, 9, but I can.

-4

carnage .. and I second 12 - well said

"But it would appear to be the job of firm management to make sure that a firm is adequately diversified among practice areas and protected against downside risk. "

Why? You seem to be assuming that firms owe some duty or obligation to their associates to shield them from layoffs in economic downturns. Cadwalader saw an opportunity to cash in on a huge bubble, no doubt made a ton of money at it, and now that the bubble has burst it's time to shed the excess personnel. I fail to see how that's not a sound business plan.

Hey Lat (or anyone, really): Does anyone know the size of the incoming first-year class? Also, does anyone know how many of this years summers have received/are expected to receive offers? Wondering if those numbers are a direct reflection of these layoff numbers. What is worse for a firm - layoffs or not offering to 100% of SAs?

#13 - what makes you think the client is going to know? This kind of stuff happens all the time. Corporate people being shifted to bankruptcy, real estate partners trying to learn capital markets, etc. We are professionals, not people trained to only run the chicken tender machine at burger king.

I've heard of many more layoffs from multiple firms in the DC market. It's being done very quietly one or two at at a time.

I agree with 4. In litigation at least, there's just not a whole lot of great value that you learn doing doc review in your first 3 years. I guess I could see knocking a 5th-year real estate down to a 2nd- or 3rd-year if s/he transfers into a new department for the purpose of cutting billing rate and salary down to a level appropriate to his/her experience with the practice area, but someone with 5 years' practice in another group is going to be a hell of a lot better prepared to make a meaningful contribution than someone fresh out of law school.

Cadwalader to 190k!

Clearly, layoffs are worse. Firms do not give offers to all summers all the time. They usually give offers to most summers, and often give offers to all summers, but sometimes summers are not good and they don't get offers.

We are all better for that, no one wants a bunch of bad first year associates getting paid and having to be fired or just slowly forced out with lack of work. Some people go to law school, get good grades, and yet do not make good lawyers at law firms.

All these comments saying that firms have to give offers to 100% of summers under any circumstances annoy me.

I've never used this term because it's normally such an exaggeration, but seriously...TTT

CWT is an extremely highly leveraged firm. It sustains that PPP by bleeding associates. Any associates who entered with any vision that they were anything other than a rock from which blood could be squeezed are certainly not worthy of my sympathy.

I need a job - maybe CWT has some openings now??

this is going to be an awkward oci for them

9:53(2) - You are assuming times are great for the CWT partners right now. They are not.

Guys in my high school used to get laid off from CWT all the time. It was no big deal.

12: "Employees picked an unstable firm for the present $ rather than the future sustainability."

Hindsight is 20-20, hater. You really think that some kid doing on campus interviews his 2L year can reasonably be expected to do research beyond Vault, Infirmation and word of mouth? You are delusional... It could have been anybody. That is, anybody qualified to work for what has generally been a solid V50 firm. Judging from your bitterness, I doubt that group includes you as a member.

Just spoke with a second year associate there... She didn't even know yet - they have a meeting at 10:30am...

#12 has no clue. Sounds like something my grandma would say based on the 12 hrs of MSNBC she watches a day. Nice try at brilliantly deep analysis, though.

If you got a six-month severance package from CWT (and this is not guaranteed), what would you do next? Immediately start looking for another BigLaw job, in-house counsel job, or something else entirely?

-Scared CWT Associate

You lift the story from the WSJ law blog and then have the audacity to question their reporting? Maybe you should do your own work before casting aspersions at others.

Agree with 10:05(1) in response to 9:53(2). I would rather be a partner at Davis Polk or Simpson or Debevoise than Cadwalader.

In recent years, CWT has had higher PPP than these firms. But partners at these places do well year in and year out, even during recessions, while CWT is in the toilet now.

Rather savvy that CWT informed the WSJ Law Blog last night? Or rather cold? Or both?

10:07 = laid off CWT associate

17

I agree with you. As someone heading into OCI, I really hope this isn't me in a few years, but why do people expect a firm to take a financial hit by holding onto attorneys it doesn't need? Or, why shouldn't a firm expand quickly to meet needs even if it is just a bubble?

This is pretty similar to the auto industry and the Big 3. They expanded and were happy to pay line workers $30/hr when work was great, but now they're hurting and need to shed some weight. Of course, the difference is one group is unionized.

CWT Associates --

Start learning how to say "Want fries with that?" and immediately speak to your loan provider about getting forbearance or deferral because you sure as hell aren't going to be able to service those loans on $7.25 an hour salaries.

Negative, 37. Employed Non-CWT associate here. It just so happens that I have no desire to see these people cast into a shitty situation.

CWT Associates --

Start learning how to say "Want fries with that?" and immediately speak to your loan provider about getting forbearance or deferral because you sure as hell aren't going to be able to service those loans on $7.25 an hour salaries.

17 - rightly or wrongly, this "business plan" is making for some terrible PR, not only among potential hires, but also likely among clients. And it can't be doing wonders for morale inside the firm.

"You really think that some kid doing on campus interviews his 2L year can reasonably be expected to do research beyond Vault, Infirmation and word of mouth?"

Um, word of mouth has bashed CWT for quite some time. Unless these kids are Amish recruits, they should've known. As Vault makes clear, "Change our name from CWT to PPP."

http://www.observer.com/2008/will-work-dinner-nobu

http://www.bmacewen.com/blog/archives/2008/03/the_lawyer_on_the_us_top.html

"Cadwalader, $2.72—notable for also being 49th out of 50th in "growth in PPP," at -6.2%"

CWT bled 35 back in January. If these 96 hadn't polished their resumes by now, they're even stupider than I thought.

So yeah, basic reading comprehension should've clued anyone with a pulse that CWT was massively unsustainable.

Although I guess by your logic, homeowners taking out massive mortgages really can't be blamed for failing to turn on a calculator.

Unfortunately we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg with the CWT layoffs. Other firms will follow. This will only accelerate the bleeding. Now 20-30 layoffs in a firm won't seem like such a big deal. Going to be a very rocky road for the forseeable future.

10:09(1) - Lat isn't "casting aspersions" on anyone's reporting. All he's saying is:

"If the firm had given me the access that it gave the WSJ, I would have asked X."

So pipe down.

What about the fact that all those fresh-faced, soon to be first year associates are all on their second day of the bar exam? I can't imagine my stress levels if I was going to CWT, had a crappy first exam day, then woke up to this news...

FIRST!

This is rather shocking. 100 lawyers. That's 15% of their entire firm.

Unbelievable.

Litigation is always the smarter choice--attracts smarter people also.

This is rather shocking. 100 lawyers. That's 15% of their entire firm.

Unbelievable.

Litigation is always the smarter choice--attracts smarter people also.

Guys in my high school used to steal the siren from Drudge all the time. It was no big deal.

I'm not sure about the clients 42. The banks that make up CWT's client base have all had massive layoffs. If anything, they're a little mistified as to why law firms aren't run the same way.

That said, this is terrible news for anyone at CWT. The market is going to be flooded with securitization specialists that there isn't any demand for.

NYC to $190K!!!!

'There was a frothiness' is past tense but not passive voice. Passive reverses agent and theme/patient roles in their subject/object positions and isn't present in that clause.

48, you clearly have your head up your ass.

Litigation DOES not attract the smarter people (on the whole).

There are MANY MANY brilliant attorneys who have a transactional practice. In fact, I would argue the converse, that corporate M&A, private equity, etc., attract a smart lot because they get the business of being a lawyer. Would you rather develop relationship with clients that always need work done OR would you rather represent a client and then have them walk away after you have solved their problem?

Litigators (except a few) are only as good as their last case.

Sincerely,

M&A and Private Equity Associate

what do securitization lawyers do anyway except cut and paste? talk about boring. literally, you could train a bright tenth grader to do that stuff.

Where are all the cries of "As soon as I get my bonus, I'm outta here - going to an IB"?? Anyone? Bueller? Didn't think so. The grass is always greener, until you learn that it's because of the septic tank it grows over.

43/10:13: CWT had a reputation for working associates to death, e.g. too much work, not too little work to go around.

Forget the EIC contest--this is what ATL is about--the worse things get the more readers for Lat.

Does anyone know how long it takes the firm to remove the axed from the web site. Trying to determine if a former classmate got hit. . .

I think it is passive. Active but past tense would be "the markets frothed" or "we participated in market frothiness."

But White wants to take attention away from CWT's participation and put all the blame on market conditions.

"CWT had a reputation for working associates to death, e.g. too much work, not too little work to go around."

When "too much work" is work like "be the ninth set of eyes on this" or "find me every case ever that granted summary judgment," the "too much work" shtick is transparent.

"Litigation is always the smarter choice--attracts smarter people also."

That's not been my experience, but as long as holding that opinion makes you feel better...

10:15, excellent point. Maybe that's why there were initially going to announce tomorrow. Yet more callousness.

How real is the prospect that CWT will completely shut down it's Charlotte office? I know they have been slowest of all the offices.

How real is the prospect that CWT will completely shut down it's Charlotte office? I know they have been slowest of all the offices.

What are people hearing about the D.C. market. D.C. usually holds up well in hard times because the practices aren't as focused on the financial markets. Still, some comments on this board make it seem like even D.C. is not immune. What are you hearing??

#33 Do something completely out of the box. Why not try to do something you actually enjoy. The alternative is remaining a whiny nuerotic.

55 -- name any biglaw associate who drafts a brief, motion, merger agreement etc. from scratch. no one does, many practice areas are highly evolved and complex, and they are built on prior art. all lawyers cut and paste, it is just a matter of degree.

Everybody's gonna die!

White's characterization of CWT is 100% right as I see it.

CWT was just a CMBS factory over the past few years. They went fast and furious with the market and they had a virtual monopoly on the type of work they were doing - they were involved on probably 75% of the deals that were out there. They added lots of warm bodies to staff the assembly line and had a huge partner to associate ratio. they probably broke most of the "rules" that most firms use about the appropriate level of associate staffing.

So, yes, it does not give off a warm and fuzzy feeling, but it is the reality. This was the way they chose to run their business and they did well for a while, but ultimately it is the live by the sword die by the sword story.

I worked with CWT lawyers on many deals and always got the impression that the place was a sweat shop. Everything was cobbled together at the last minute, paralegals and junior associates ran the deals, nobody knew what was going on. When the music stopped and the whole frantic dance was over, things probably fell apart quickly.

68--there's way less cutting and pasting in drafting briefs. i've done both transactional work and litigation and litigation is definitely more challenging. put it this way--the strong writers in law school nearly always go to litigation.

I've heard talk of CWT completely leaving Charlotte. I wouldn't be surprised. They're not generating any work here, it's all servicing their other clients, from what i've heard

Are the Cad summer associates still around or did thier summer end? That's gotta suck! Anyone know? You would think Cad would wait until they left before laying off 100 lawyers? Or maybe not, to give them the heads up to not accept and go interview. . . ha ha ha. I just implied they would give them a heads up. . . I must be hungover!

17- clearly no business education. Terrible PR, and for the long term profitability of a company that requires talent, this hurts badly. Good talent is hard to find, so a firm needs to make itself as desirable as possible, and contracting and expanding with the economy, to this degree, looks terrible.

This is not news. Clearly, the 96 layoffs at CWT were all "performance related." Just the poor performers being let go as part of the normal review process that other firms, like Paul Hastings, Dewey, etc., use every year.

This is not news. Clearly, the 96 layoffs at CWT were all "performance related." Just the poor performers being let go as part of the normal review process that other firms, like Paul Hastings, Dewey, etc., use every year.

71 -- and in requests for production of documents? and interrogatories? and responses to the same? and motions for summary judgment? surely no cutting and pasting there.

Spot on #70. The situation in a nutshell.

TPW has laid off at least that many this year - their NALP directory listing says 192 associates as of February 2008 (after their first round of layoffs) and now the website lists 105 associates.

TPW -TTT

What rank out of Chicago for this firm?

Also, is it generally agreed that litigators are immune from the problems associated with the transactional attorneys of the CWT ilk?

19,

13 here. B/c firms need a certainly level of associate attrition to maintain their business model moving associates around at higher levels make no economic sense. They need and want about 20% of their attorneys to walk out the door every year. Moving an associate and having the gear up takes too much time and money.

Firms also know by 4 and 5th year whether an associate has the talent to at least be considered for partner. If they don't, why shuttle them into another group when they are going to just cut them loose two years later. It is a business not a daycare center.

Firms also cut the fat first - see CWT's first layoff back in January. If I was an associate that missed the axe the first time and was any bit slow I would be talking to the first recruiter that called.

very funny 71. i've done litigation too and i think sociopathic is more apt.

general approach to 95% of litigation briefing I've read: completely ignore the truth; take the obvious facts that cannot be credibly denied and paint them into fabricated story that is completely untrue but paints their client as the real victim in the matter. add case-law for effect

why the world needs more people skilled at that role is frightening

TPW = ?

Like 21, I'm surprised that White referred to 5th and 6th year lawyers as "fungible." Those lawyers still have better skills than a first year and I bet can be more easily trained into other practice areas. There is some truth that once your into a particular area, you get pigeon-holed, but there usually is some breathing room for someone who's smart and flexible (i.e. willing to take a paycut and I'd think that associates at CWT could afford that, for a while at least, especially if they are being given 5 months severence).

I would agree with 83. I don't know if litigation selects for manipulative whiners or simply reinforces those bad behavioral patterns.

I am glad I cancelled my CWT interview for OCI this year.

I can't imagine being the attorney who has to interview/recruit for CWT. They will be pariahs.

Lat,

Could we get either a market-by-market redux of layoffs in the last year (I particularly want D.C.) or open threads? As a rising 2L getting ready to interview, I'd love to know with what firms it's not worth bothering or at least shaky.

74--

I never said it wasn't bad PR, or that there were no costs associated with the approach. I merely took issue with Lat's suggestion that the firm management has some obligation to shield associates from the effects of economic downturn. And as anyone with a business education would undertstand, a large piece of a $314 billion securitization market in 2008 might well outweigh the PR and other costs associated with cutting the excess when the bubble bursts, particularly when, as was noted above, the firm's banking clients are going through the same thing.

--17

I advise the laid-off CWT associates to pool their capital and talents together in order to establish a rival structured finance firm. Rainmaking will be tough at first, but the vengeance, once attained, will be sweet.

75/76 -

Good post...pure comedy.

But lay off the 'post comment' icon.

I am surprised that ATL hasn't picked up on the fact that Greenberg Traurig has been shedding lawyers at a rapid rate for the past year - especially considering that GT is a favorite whipping boy on this site.

71 = idiot.

As a 3L who will reinterview if I dont get an offer or to just cover my bases, I'd like to know what the layoff rates are at firms. I'm particularly interested in NY big law. I have a few friends summering at CWT and I sympathize with the horrible position they must be in mentally. We are deciding our future cities, practice groups, and also debt payment programs. Thanks ATL.

92 and others,

I don't understand you readers who wonder why Lat hasn't picked up on firings at particular firms. He gets his tips from readers. If you know about something, send it to him. He'll follow it up, but you need to stop being a free-rider on this site.

95, 92 is obviously a law student. You should stop calling them a free-rider. It is obviously an individual who is just concerned about their future.

Signed,
not 92

55 is right, and so is 54. I've done both litigation and transactional--- alot of both. Litigation takes some balls, and trans is boring as hell, but both are loaded with smart peeps. You're lucky to have a steady pay check in either case.

96 -

Well obviously 92 knew about the lay-offs at GT in order to complain about the lack of coverage. Even a law student can be a tipster.

-95

So as a 2L that is going to start OCI next month, how much should I let this affect my attitude towards CWT? I mean, I'm not interested in real estate transactional law, but still...100 lawyers?

83: "why the world needs more people skilled at that role is frightening"

Um. . . your point is that since most briefs are poorly written we must have too many people who are good at it? Whaaa?

"at the third, fourth and fifth years, lawyers aren't fungible" - really?? I find it hard to believe that a corporate or real estate third year with the type of law school credentials a firm like CWT requires couldn't be taught to be a litigation associate. How hard is it to teach writing, research, and document review skills? It's not like CWT midlevels or running their own trials or anything that would require real litigation experience.

97,

54 here. I can see why folks would think trans would be boring (ever done secretary and officer certs for an omnibus closing?), but it can also be very exciting and unlike litigation--corporate lawyers take on a more consigliere role to their clients--often times advising them on both legal and business matters.

CWT's Bankruptcy department is slow and bloated as well. Next stop is the capital call on the partners. My prediction: 12 months CWT won't exist.

54--if you are going to do that transactional work for bankers, funds, etc. why not be the banker yourself? transactional lawyers are basically the banker's toadies. litigators, white-collar defense types are nobody's toadies. they call the shots.

basically transactional lawyers just cross the t's and dot the i's on deals structured by bankers. [insert $]

75/76 -

Good post...pure comedy.

But lay off the 'post comment' icon.

anyone know how wilmerhale d.c. is doing?

11:06 - litigators call the shots? Are you serious? or has your self-denial warped your sense of reality. You are whores to your clients, just like your mom is a whore to the whole upper east side.

What is this TTT? Also, is the economy bad?

104,

The practice of law is a service business and until you reach the cream of the crop, no matter what practice, you are at the whim of your client. With respect to your question, "why not be the banker yourself?" I respond by noting that lawyers add value to deals --though different than than of bankers.

I actual enjoy being a lawyer and counseling my clients on legal matters that they do not understand. Would a banker go to a breadmaker to get his oil changed?

some new and exotic words about to enter the vocabulary of former CWT'ers: Spherion; Lexolution; Update Legal; and Elaine P. Dine. some others: default; foreclosure; re-possess; and margin call.

Maybe the feds should bail out CWT like it will the rest of the industry. If the taxpayers have to subsidize (and thus encourage) poor performance, why not include law firms.

There are a bunch of associates on the CWT website whose names still appear but have blank biography pages. I am guessing these are the people who got cut. One of my friends is among these people and I don't want to ask him at the moment.

100,

I never said most briefs are poorly written. In fact the briefs I've read (big-stakes litigation in federal court ) are usually beautifully written.

My point was that people who have the ability to manipulate the law and facts so gracefully are often sociopathic a__holes whom I'd shudder to interact with socially.

from 83

My interview in a few weeks with this piece of **** firm should be fun.

"So why are you interested in working for our firm?"

"I've heard great things about your real estate practice."

111=doesnt know shit about economics

111= doesnt know sh** about economics

This blows. I wish these people the best of luck. Man, how the mighty have fallen.

112, the bio pages for most associates has a LOT of white space, but the basic info for each associate is still there, on the left hand side. Or should be.

19,

13 here. B/c firms need a certainly level of associate attrition to maintain their business model moving associates around at higher levels make no economic sense. They need and want about 20% of their attorneys to walk out the door every year. Moving an associate and having the gear up takes too much time and money.

****

13 - you simply don't know what you are talking about. Don't you think that CWT has found a way to integrate their really good MBS associates into other practice groups?

Cravath moves associates from practice to practice group for 8 years and they seem to be scraping by.

I used to think that 104 was wrong, but I increasingly agree with him. Law firms play less and less of a role in deals. True, it's not just dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's - but lawyers are far from being the ones who decide the fate of the transaction, and most of the transactional practice is essentially providing language for something that was already decided. It's a declining industry, no matter where you work.

54 (97 here)-- for the most part, I found trans prac essentially a paralegal job. I perhaps didn't have the absolute best deals, but they were higher-end Wall Street deals. But as you say, litigation is no panacea. Litigation at the large firms is not even really litigation.

118, why do some associate bio pages (mostly litigation) have full bios, and others (mostly transactional) have white space. This is my point.

19,

13 here. B/c firms need a certainly level of associate attrition to maintain their business model moving associates around at higher levels make no economic sense. They need and want about 20% of their attorneys to walk out the door every year. Moving an associate and having the gear up takes too much time and money.

****

13 - you simply don't know what you are talking about. Don't you think that CWT has found a way to integrate their really good MBS associates into other practice groups?

Cravath moves associates from practice to practice group for 8 years and they seem to be scraping by.

117, your comment presupposes that CWT was among the mighty. Contrary to the fabulations of Bob Link, CWT was never more than anything other than TTT.

119,

CWT's real problem is that litigation, corporate and bankruptcy are already overstaffed and slow. You can't move the associates to other departments

122: When I worked at CWT, they would add full bios for more senior attorneys and for attorneys located in certain offices or working in certain departments. Most junior level attorneys in capital markets would not have full bios.

124: That's just a dumb thing to say. They are (were) a top firm.

117

To blame the management for the "down-side" risk that Lat is referring to is asking a mere mortal to predict the future. Yes, the chairman could have limited the down-side risk by telling his fellow partners during the boom: "yes, we are really busy in securitization and there is too much work to go around, but since shit might hit the fan someday, I will not be hiring extra bodies and our PPP will not grow as much as it could. Oh, and to diversify, I will be hiring extra attorneys for workers' comp."

Let's face it - as the profession evolves to increasingly serve our corporate clients (the basis of our huge salaries), we will increasingly be riding the business cycle, in its fullest glory and gloom. Layoffs and recessions suck to affected individuals, but they serve a greater purpose in the bigger scheme of things, like death and decay.

CWTer here. You are not going to be able to figure out who was laid off from the CWT website. After the layoffs in January, bios remained on the website through each laid-off associate's last day of work, which in that round was about a week after they were told.

YIKES. Everyone in the V50-V100 range ought to be on notice. These things can sometimes have a domino effect, with peer firms saying "well Cad did it, so maybe we should too..."

ahhhh, wow, Lat, you really need to stop posting. It makes your ATL idol contestants just seem that much worse.

As for CWT, I really feel for them. Especially for those whose only big law option was CWT. But for people who pick firms for prestige, especially when it's an empty shell, all I have to say is tough. Associate friends of mine knew CWT was a sweatshop years ago, even for a NY firm. If you are willing to go to a place like that, then you reap what you sow. I almost made the same mistake (picking a higher vault firm over a firm that paid the same, higher QoL, but wasn't ranked highly on vault), but I didn't and I am doing very well.

However, there is def a deeper issue. Partners at many firms SUCK at management. They couldn't manage their way out of a box. I mean, I used to think my managers when I was on the non-law side were bad; then I get into law and see the "flat" management style of firms def has major drawbacks. CWT made some really bad choices getting highly leveraged in a low margine, very risky (in hindsight) industry. My firm didn't even touch mortgaged backed securitization and as a result, is only hurting now cause our american banking clients took a big hit for it(which even then, wasn't too bad).

My only worry is that layoffs don't become the norm. Hopefully, firms who are hurting but arent bleeding like the CWTs of the world see this as their chance to shine and really stand out (IE, not laying off and making it a selling point), not as a sign that layoffs are kosher. I think we will finally see who are the phoney's and who are the real firms out of this. No more will all of the vault 50 match Kravath. They'll be the top 20 (even more apt if it was about 14 or so :P) and there will be the rest. My firm isn't there yet, but it will be

not to say anything really earth shattering but bottom line is that cwt just went for the ride and more importantly the ppp. this is whats important and when ppp suffers the associates, and some de-equitized partners, take the heat.
there will always be those to fill the empty spots when cwt looks to hire more, though they may not produce the best work.
as for entry people there will always be those that have no offers from other places....

Not so fast 130. Not every, or even most, of the V50-V100 firms jumped on the CMBS band wagon the way CWT did. Besides, as long as a firm is well managed, no matter where they fall in the Vault rankings, they should be able to weather the current storm fairly well. It's only the overly-levereaged firms that are going to take a real beating.

I'm becoming a rapper.

CWT Associate

What's sad is that this is the oldest law firm in the US and it was poor management that lead to this downfall, not market conditions.

Isn't this a fun business to be in.

I'm sure CWT partners got nice and fat during the mortgage-backed securities boom, largely on the backs of the people they let go today and in January. Nice loyalty.

Lawyers sure are quality people, aren't they.

Come on people, you're forgetting the basics:

CWT = TTT

I shouldn't have had to post this so late in the CWT ripping. Even the small things are important in this business, folks. Its all about detail orientation.

Did CWT have any Supreme Court clerks? Do you think they will be laid off?

CWT's business strategy was to run ahead of a steamroller and pick up quarters.

There is always Lincoln Technical Institute.....
See banner above.

All biglaw associates should treat every paycheck like a victory. We're jolly green giants right now, but any day, any one of us could get the axe. If we're not being worked to death, we're on the chopping block.

I try not to piss my money away anymore, cuz that cushion might be important very soon.

Summer numbers: NALP says that CWT New York had 76 in 2007, and were expecting only 47 in 2008.

So it looks like there was a pretty big cutback, I wouldn't worry for now if I was finishing up my summer there. But would I reinterview as a 3L? You betcha.

"they were involved on probably 75% of the deals that were out there."

Wow, you really bought the CWT line. They weren't in 75% of the sec'z'n deals. All the evidence you need is White's nonsensical statements about the size of the market and the league tables--re MBS, per the Law Blog, White said "That $314 billion from last year will go to roughly $60 billion in 2008"--the League Tables show MBS issuance in 2007 of $1.3T global, $922B domestic; and in 1st half 2008 of $141B global, $117B domestic. So, if White was discussing CWT's representations (seems plausible), that's 25% of the market, not 75%.

Yeah, the market has collapsed, which is the principal cause of CWT's problems, but CWT wasn't as big a piece of the market as they want you to believe.

OK, they've done half their cuts.

Another 100 sackings to come, then dissolution after the partners with business leave because their incomes have halved and their pressure to produce has doubled.

Everyone is hurting in corporate law but the mismanagement of CWT is breathtaking. Hiring several private equity partners in Feb. '08 and bankruptcy partners with no business in '07 (all with huge guarantees) has not helped matters. This disaster is CWT specific.

@116

I know more about economics than you do. A bailout is never a good idea, never.

Lat, stop playing lip service to TPW and post about the fact they are and have been firing people the ENTIRE YEAR. Some of those fired only receiving 2 weeks severance which is in no way market.

94 - Better hope you get that offer. There aren't many law firms that will hire a 3L who didn't. Being a summer associate is the easiest job in the world and there's an industry-wide aversion to witholding offers. If you can't get over that exceptionally low bar, a lot of firms will treat you as untouchable. It's a question you'll get in every interview.

Any actual tally of the casualties per CWT office? Will the Charlotte office be wiped out?

Substantial rumors have it that CWT Charlotte is a gonner, and will dump its associates in to one of the most depressed legal job markets in the country.

Haha. I guess it wasn't their day. Serves them right for working at a second rate firm.

Haha. I guess it wasn't their day. Serves them right for working at a second rate firm.

Haha. I guess it wasn't their day. Serves them right for working at a second rate firm.

What about other staff? Don't all those lawyers have secretaties? I wonder how much severance they are getting... I get it's nothing like FIVE MONTHS. I have little sympathy for the elite club of money-makers who have helped get us in the situation where we are borrowing money from China to try and re-animate our bubble...

What about other staff? Don't all those lawyers have secretaties? I wonder how much severance they are getting... I get it's nothing like FIVE MONTHS. I have little sympathy for the elite club of money-makers who have helped get us in the situation where we are borrowing money from China to try and re-animate our bubble...

I really dont understand any of the criticism about CWT's "business model," or comments about CWT "living by the sword and dying by the sword."

There was a market for a particular type of legal work - CWT made a shit load of money doing it for a while. That market died, the clients dont need that service anymore - so CWT fires the lawyers they used to provide that service. Whats stupid or complicated about that? THATS A GREAT BUSINESS MODEL.

Five or six months severance is reasonable. They can't be expected to hold on to people indefinitely, and in a better economy, less would be ok, but even nowadays, this seems pretty workable. Take a month or two off, then start looking. A lot of associates would probably take this voluntarily if they could, but if the firms offered it up that way they'd lose many of the best people and keep the worst. I know I'd be running out the door with the check before they even finished the speech about how it didn't reflect on me personally, just the markets, blah blah blah...

143 -- I think CWT was referring to CMBS issuance, not MBS issuance. Most likely a miscommunication or misunderstanding.

92 - where are you getting your info from? Which office are you talking about? No associates in my office have been fired and in fact the office has hired several new associates during the past year.

mike and the mad dog just broke up

159---so the rumors are true---details please. This is news that truly effects me.

Partner just stopped in my office to tell me how the firm I'm working at has never laid off an attorney. Maybe I'll stay in this TTT city...

I am sure the SF and RE people feel awful, but imagine how awful it must be to be one of the other six people. What's with them?

when you think about it, Cadwalader was actually pretty kind to the incoming first years sitting the bar. they released the news while they were in the exam rooms and wouldn't hear about it - of course, tomorrow would have been kinder, but hey! wonder why it was announced today...

NOT MIKE AND THE MAD DOG!!!!!!!!!! 160 is correct, this is the real news of the day.

Bob and Chris love this stuff. They are probably stroking each other off right now. They love firing people at that firm, they are the only firm that has done it repeatedly and massively through every cycle of the economy.

I bet Chris is dripping from Bob's mustache right now.

Bob and Chris love this stuff. They are probably stroking each other off right now. They love firing people at that firm, they are the only firm that has done it repeatedly and massively through every cycle of the economy.

I bet Chris is dripping from Bob's mustache right now.

Law firms just care about the partnership. Associates are as valuable as the secretaries or paralegals. I don't blame CWT for anything. They were trying to maximize profits per partner when times were good. They naturally built up the practice areas they were known for, which is what every firm does. Then crap hit the fan and associates are no longer needed. So dump them. I bet plenty of partners in the affected groups have also been dumped so it's all fair. It's a business. People need to stop whining. And you know that law students will still go to CWT. We are just prostitutes afterall after the 160k plus bonus. Some people won't have better options than CWT. Not everyone is magna from HLS.

167: CWT partner

I wonder if Skadden will ever have to lay associates off?

I wonder if Skadden will ever have to lay associates off?

CWT should be blacklisted by the USNWR top 20. Everyone has better options than CWT. Jacoby & Meyers is a better option than CWT.

I wonder if Skadden NY will ever lay associates off again?

CWT to 190 lawyers!

54: litigators get repeat business all the time. why would you assume that they don't? any big company gets sued, or has to, wants to know if they should sue, wants to know what it can do to not get sued, etc. etc. etc. a lot. if they like you, they call you again.

I'm with 162. Did they just figure since they're announcing a massive layoff anyway, why not take care of a little house cleaning?

174 - that's pretty naive
yes, companies get sued all of the time. but having represented previously healthy companies that suddently find themselves in financial distress, I can tell you the process isn't fun. all of a sudden ever project goes under the billing microscopes, subtle (or not so subtle) warnings are given to not bill your time - even though you're still expected to do the work, and the partners wind up becoming grumpy jerks. according to the WSJ, lots of previously healthy companies are doing crappy these days

160/164 - im not so depressed. i never liked pompous mike even with all his "knowledge" and dog either yelled (funny, see youtube) or just parroted.

i say bring back sid rosenberg and pair him back with joe beningo and you have a killer show. that of course will never happen because whichever of the goons survive will ahve the slot. bottom line it still sucks

68 - I'm an appellate associate in a firm with a very established appellate practice and, but for one case, I am yet to draft a brief on an issue that's been briefed before. In other words, all but one of the projects have required drafting from scratch.

"So as a 2L that is going to start OCI next month, how much should I let this affect my attitude towards CWT?"

99, if you felt need to ask question, then you may already be beyond help of any meaningful advice. (Doesn't law school teach critical analysis anymore??)

But then again, if you have no other choice, then interview/summer gig at CWT is better none at all.

178 -- so you start with a blank Word document?

And in case #99 feels that I (#179) was too harsh, re-read the blog entry. The top honcho actually had the balls/idiocy/brain freeze to publicly described associates as "fungible" - if that doesn't give you serious pause, then well...

This should help with recruiting

Did AIPAC have anything to do with the layoffs?

180 - yes
(178)

178:

"I am yet to draft a brief on an issue that's been briefed before."

Maybe you should look into working off precedents. Judgiing by your grammar, you need all the help you can get.

183 - i heard that israel ordered this you stipid douche!

186:

I had a suspicion AIPAC was behind this. That's why the Prime Minister just resigned!!!

yes i saw the report on the pm, yea probably because of cwt. your an idiot. i heard that saudi arabia is behind it - just lower the oil price or more output....

178: Wow, for an appellate associate, your writing skills aren't very good.

where are all the CWT defenders? oh yeah, fired.

At the very least these poor souls are getting paid until the end of the year; but that's not much consolation given the poor state of the economy and the even crappier condition of the legal job market.

176: I, and my firm, get a lot of repeat business. I'm working on my fourth case for a major company right now. And that's not my only client that's come back to us. Like I said before, speaking from experience and not naivete, big companies get sued a lot. And no, I'm not being told not to bill my time either. Perhaps what YOU are doing is so specialized that it would be bad news if a client came back for another round, but there are many fields of law where that is not the case. (Take, say, a drug company. They're going to need frequent help with: patents, products, trademarks . . .. etc.)

54.

As the wife of a CWT summer associate I am freaking out. I need some questions answered!
If he gets an offer do you think he should take it? They're supposed to give offers after the internship is over at the end of next week. Can you please rank the top NYC lawfirms and include CWT on the list so I can see where it was and where it is now after the layoff? Why is it so hard to get a job with another firm if you're a 3L? Don't they do interviewing again?

193 - you sound like a mother not a wife.

193 - you sound like a mother not a wife.

193: I think it would be best if you didn't freak out, because I assure you he is probably freaking out more and plus, he has all the info that you are asking about.

Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft = Barings Bank of the legal world

194-
That's messed up

top NY law firms:

1-10,473. Every other firm in New York.
10,474. CWT

Knowing CWT I would not rely on them to provide severance to the end of the year. I'm sure there are loopholes, clawbacks, carveouts and caveats that will be designed to fuck every mutherfucking last one of the associates they mercilessly shitcanned after assraping them for dollars for so long.

193: RELAX. Your husband knows all about the stuff you're freaking out about now, and he's probably even more upset than you are.

My guess would be that after this nonsense they probably WILL give offers to all their summers. They won't be able to recruit AT ALL if they don't. And even if they don't have space for everybody to return, it is a safe bet that with this going down during the summer, not everybody they give an offer to is coming back.

So, with offer in hand, your husband should reinterview. It will be hard in this economy, and firms are selective with who they take, but everyone will know why he's re-interviewing even with an offer.

To wife: I would think he should hold it open as long as he can and try to find a job elsewhere.

193, why don't you ask your husband to explain this to you?

193: even if your husband does not get an offer, after publicly axing 135 lawyers this year, interviewers will understand that the no offer is not a true reflection of his abilities.

to mother eh wife: take 200/201 advice

193 should've married a real man

193--What law school does your husband attend? CWT did a lot of recruiting at 2nd tier schools this year. If he is in a T-14 school I would think he would not have a very difficult time finding something else during OCI. If he is in a lower ranked school will make it a lot tougher for him to find something else.

205 has the best post yet.

207 - im telling you its his mother

205-
I did marry a real man you SOB. Why don't you get a REAL JOB instead of having time to post on the internet all day.

208- I'm not his mother fool

CWT'2008 Summer Class
Cadwalader's 2008 summer program includes law students from the following schools:

American University, Washington College of Law 5
Brooklyn Law School 2
University of Buffalo Law School 1
California Western School of Law 1
Benjamin N. Cardozo Law School 1
Catholic University of America, Columbus School of Law 2
The University of Chicago Law School 1
Columbia Law School 2
Fordham University School of Law 5
George Mason University School of Law 1
George Washington University School of Law 2
Georgetown University Law Center 3
Harvard Law School 1
The University of Maryland School of Law 1
University of Michigan Law School 1
New York Law School 1
New York University School of Law 1
Northwestern University School of Law 2
Osgoode Hall Law School 1
Pace Law School 1
University of Pittsburgh School of Law 3
Seton Hall University School of Law 1
Tample University, Beasley School of Law 1
Tulane Law School 2
University of Pennsylvania Law School 1
University of Virginia School of Law 4
Vanderbilt University Law School 1
Villanova University School of Law 1
Washington & Lee Law School 1
William and Mary School of Law 1
Washington University School of Law 4
University of Wisconsin Law School 2

158 (92 responding) - My info is for the NY office of Greenberg Traurig. The firings have been stealth but have been across the board, from paralegals and secretaries to associates and partners. Richard Rosenbaum is ruthless, as you should know.

To their credit the firm basically told everyone over a year ago that the economy was not looking good so alot of people and practice groups left voluntarily - big groups from IP and Labor and Employment and tons of attrition in litigation, real estate and corporate.

209: you are not doing yourself any favors with that.

Lol at American University.

TTT students at a TTT law firm.

209: maybe you shouldn't be posting on blog during this time of the month.

193,

He should test out the market for other jobs, but if he doesn't find anything he should just accept the offer from CWT and not look back.

Dennis Block, a partner in CWTs corporate group, is a legend who will continue to bring in huge deals. CWT's litigation practice is decent too. In a year or so when he finally starts, the economy will be stronger and CWT should have recovered after dumping so much dead weight. You're husband will build up an impressive deal sheet and then jump ship after 3 years or so.

Looks like very few of their summers are from top 10 schools. I'm betting they keep those ones on.

Tample University, Beasley School of Law 1

Is this the same as Tampon University School of Law? CWT is total garbage.

dear mommy @ 2:09 - refer to 212 whom i second

To all of you who mock lesser law schools:

I would submit that all Biglaw firms are TTT's. The best and brightest go into banking/trading or start their own businesses. You are glorified hourly employees. Most of you lack the creativity and/or the guts to do something significant. Biglaw is just the next step on the ladder for the unthinking. This whole TTT discussion reminds me of people from Wyoming who mock people from North Dakota for being provincial. It is comical to the outsider.

193, you should test out the market for new husbands, but if you don't find anything you should just accept the unemployed husband you have.

Wait a sec, 220. Are you saying you actually know people from both Wyoming AND North Dakota? How TTT.

Wait a sec, 219. Are you saying you actually know people from both Wyoming AND North Dakota? How TTT.

217 - Temple.

What is wrong you guys?

If we would have given the Jews North Dakota instead of Isreal, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

219 - Amen

193/209 - are you hot? Post a pic? Many gainfully employed men here who can satisfy your hankering for the seasons freshest handbag . . .

New thread up here:

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/07/cadwalader_licks_your_balls.php

i hear king & spalding is about to layoff a dozen or so attorneys in new york

they are also going to "convert" associates to staff attorneys in a number of offices

got to keep the profit per partner moving upward

I would love to know the source of that rumor about K&S layoffs. As far as I've heard the New York office is slammed right now and they are interviewing to fill the open spots. Maybe that is just certain practice areas, though.

2 comments:

1) I will never, ever, ever understand the glee some people on this site seem to take in other people's misfortunes. Frankly, its more a sad commentary on the poster than anything else. (And before anyone asks - I'm an associate, my job is safe, and if anything ever happens where I'm at I've got partners who would be fighting to take me with them and a standing offer from another set of partners that struck out on their own a while back.)

2) On the ridiculous litigation v. corporate pissing match: I'm a litigator. I love what I do and I find corporate work boring in the extreme. I work with brilliant, wonderful people on interesting cases, and I enjoy it. I have plenty of friends in corporate who love what they do, find it exciting, enjoyable and intellectually stimulating. I know plenty of brilliant transactional lawyers, at least as many as brilliant litigators (truthfully, smart people comprise a higher percentage of the transactional attorneys I know than of the litigators I know - but that may just be because I've run into a high incidence of bad adversaries :)

People choose lit or transactional based on what they enjoy, not based on how smart they are - and neither is better than the other in any objective sense.

On the other hand, the pissing match was kind of fun to read, so carry on.

96 Attorneys gone, the staff is next.

LOL@"I'm an associate, my job is safe, and if anything ever happens where I'm at I've got partners who would be fighting to take me with them."

You genuinely live in a fantasy world, don't you 229?