Lat--can we get an open thread on the baseball trade deadline? Big trade with Manny has the internet blowing up.

CWT sucks. They should just shut down now.

second!

Fifth...dangit, was almost second ;-)

second!

How about details on the Akin Gump shuffle?

seventh...person to get laid off

Paul Mourning. LOL!

Firms laid people off in the 2000s? Who?

Shearman

Being one of the "CWT 96" I still believe all 96 should get together and start our own firm with hourly rates half the price of CWT's rates. We could do this while we are all collecting the rather generous (and I mean that) 5 months severance package.

Also, I do feel bad for my co-workers who are left there. These are good solid workers who are in a panic. Secretly, I know some are pissed because they would have loved to get the 5 months and jump ship.

I do believe Chris White made ONE HUGE mistake yesterday. He should have taken a cue from the Batman movie... made Bob Link fire everyone... then fired Bob Link at the end of the day.

I am going to miss not working with my peeps. We really had a good time over there despite the negativity towards CWT on this blog. :-(

Anyway, as for my first day of unemployment - I read my "Release Agreement and Waiver" and signed it so that my very very generous severance package can begin.

CWT FOREVER
(... and by "forever", I really mean just until my severance ends).

Any idea how many Cap Markets lawyers are left in CWT Charlotte? Rumors are flying heavy down here that the office will close by the end of the year? Any more info? Speak up CWT Charlotte people.

Any idea how many Cap Markets lawyers are left in CWT Charlotte? Rumors are flying heavy down here that the office will close by the end of the year? Any more info? Speak up CWT Charlotte people.

12, I'm sorry for you but it sounds like you have a great attitude and will end up in a much better spot.

Is today the last day for the 96? Is your bio still on the website?

Good luck 12. For all the crap poured on CWT on this forum (and well deserved too), you have to give kudos over CWT's incredibly generous severance packages.

That said, for now and forever, CWT becomes the poster-boy of what a TTT is.

The CWT incoming associate could also contact recruiters before they started spamming firms.

What Akin Gump shuffle? If you don't have real gossipt to leave in the comments, at least provide basic details.

agree with 7, interesting to see explanations behind shutting offices, bleeding partners to other firms, etc.

12 to Editor!

Lat,
"Prospective recruits will hold this against Cadwalader five years from now -- assuming CWT is still around then -- just as people still remember which firms laid off lawyers in the last downturn, in the early 2000s."

I'm going into interviews in a couple weeks and I have no idea who laid off in the early 2000s. Post a thread on this.

Retard aka #18 - see http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/07/31/akin-to-shutter-offices-in-taipei-silicon-valley-lawyers-to-alston-bird/

"Shearman & Sterling laid off 10 percent of its associates when mergers and acquisitions plummeted in 2001, and the former Dewey Ballantine also had a number of layoffs."

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1194257039275

21--see Milbank, Shearman

Can the Red Sox win the World Series this year with Jason Bay?

Thoughts...

What did people think of the last day of bar exams? NJ, CT, MA??

Good call, 20--wouldn't mind hearing some more from #12. (S)he seems to have an actual personality and some communication skills.

Wait until W&C drops its bomb...

25 uh they could not win with manny this year, so now.....

Lat,
"Prospective recruits will hold this against Cadwalader five years from now -- assuming CWT is still around then -- just as people still remember which firms laid off lawyers in the last downturn, in the early 2000s."

I'm going into interviews in a couple weeks and I have no idea who laid off in the early 2000s. Post a thread on this.

Number 12 here: And the kicker is that I have a few opportunities already so hopefully I will bank the severance. Hopefully.

Yeah, all kidding aside I was shocked when they told me it was 5 months plus all my vacation. I literally almost fell out of the chair. The explanation for the 5 months is simple (as I stated on here last night) - they looked us in the face in January and said we had a job until the end of the year and they didn't want us looking for a new job. So yes, they did live up to their word. But you can bet your ass, they will not make that mistake again. The poor peeps left will be lucky if they get a smile from the partners let alone a promise of employment.

And yes, my bio is still up on the firms website. Our official termination date is August 8 - next Friday.

Me Editor? Lat can you afford $250K plus a sign-on bonus? If so.... NY TO $500K !!!

Did I miss Judge Judy? Shit.

MY OPINION:

If the CWT downturn is limited to its "real estate finance and asset securitization" group (as they claim in various public statements), and the firm is otherwise robust, then why did not Cadwalader first offer to shift the unfortunate laid-off 135 (during 2008) to other practice groups instead of showing them the door?

Instead, they want to keep potential summers hanging (by NOT saying they have no realistic hope of working there) in the hopes of cherry picking some exceptional candidates out of the newist LS crop and/or keeping up appearances with competitors, clients, and lenders, at the expense of existing lawyers who got a envelope on their chair suggesting that they don't let the door hit their laid off asses on the way out (and BTW, THANK YOU SOOO MUCH FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION.)

Where do I even begin here?

Let me just make 2 points:

1. Like the recent suitor in the news who got hit with a $150K judgment when he jilted his fiancé with a note on the bathroom mirror--Cadwalader HAS NO CLASS. You discuss such things face-to-face, and you do not MISLEAD in January by fibbing that there will be no mass lay-offs in July. ENRON did that kind of stuff. Shabby, just shabby.

2. Cadwalader continues to mislead potential summers and other job applicants, even though it knows full well it is not in hiring mode, and 99.9% will get no offers.

Cadwalader equity partners: Enjoy your profit distributions at year-end. You have earned them with the blood of decent, talented lawyers you recruited then mislead into staying, then stabbed in the back. Your 1872 founders must be turning in their graves.

Does anybody else get the feeling that Lat would LOVE to see CWT disintegrate into a heap of legal ignominy? I don't know if he's even trying to disguise his schadenfreude anymore.

"Does anybody else get the feeling that Lat would LOVE to see CWT disintegrate into a heap of legal ignominy?"

Is there a decent, objective man or woman alive who would not like to see "CWT disintegrate into a heap of legal ignominy?" after what it has done and contunues to do?

Lat, you're home page should prominently display two links: (1) the commonly used ATL phrases and (2) the Walls of Shame (showing (a) the salary charts, which are not hot now, but will be; and (b) the firms that have laid people off in recent memory, say, the last 15 years).

#32 -- CWT was founded in 1792, not 1872.

Sadly, there are always going to be associates willing to work for CWT, despite how much everyone wants them to disintegrate.

CWT proves that pursuing PPP at the cost of talent makes you TTT.

How does this incoming CWT associate expect to find a job when he/she does not know the difference between "hear" and "here"???

#32: The axings were most definetly not limited to cap markets and real estate, quite a few corporate/m&a department associates lost their heads.

Lat, please start a Cadwalader death pool. I expect that Amy Winehouse will outlive CWT.

Lat, you should do a story on the guy on the on the Greyhound bus who FUCKING BEHEADED THE GUY IN THE SEAT NEXT TO HIM!

5:30 - Why should Lat have to disguise his opinions? That is why he's an independent blogger, not an MSM type. He spews opinions here all the time.

42/5:40:

YES.

It's still a good market for those who love litigation, as some of us do. But here you go. Just for the record. Firms that should be avoided at all cost, due to their recent layoffs:

Thelen
Caldwalder
Thatcher Profitt
Clifford Chance
Jenner Block (stripping equity status from 10 partners)
Sonnenschein
Mayer Brown (rumor of very recent Chicago layoffs)
Paul Hastings (Shinyung Oh)

And some throwbacks. Not suggesting you avoid these places (i.e. Dewey LeBoeuf is doing just fine these days.... ). Just for the record....

February 2001:

Dewey Ballantine, one of Manhattan's most prominent law firms, confirmed yesterday that it had laid off some of its lawyers, only weeks after paying substantial year-end bonuses. Twelve midlevel and senior lawyers at the firm, which employs more than 300 people in New York, were laid off. Because of few resignations and a lack of other attrition -- in part because of a slowdown in hiring at investment banks and Internet start-ups -- the firm had too large a staff, said Sean M. Moran, the firm's hiring partner. No more layoffs are expected, he said. Jonathan D. Glater (NYT)

August 2001:

Cooley Godward LLP, a 90-year-old national law firm that had capitalized on the technology boom that collapsed last year, announced internally yesterday that the economic slowdown is prompting it to lay off 17 percent of its junior lawyers.

Like several other major law firms, California-based Cooley Godward expanded rapidly to cater to the phenomenal growth in start- up technology companies, opening offices in regions that had tech- based business booms, such as Northern Virginia.

Now, Cooley is dismissing 86 of nearly 500 associate lawyers and special counsel, including at least 10 of the 61 associates in its two-year-old Reston office.

May 2002:

Holland & Knight laid off 60 lawyers and more than 100 staff members, or 5 percent of its attorneys and 10 percent of its staff.

January 2003:

Cooley Godward, (again) a Silicon Valley law firm that represents venture capital firms and high-tech start-ups, will close its branch office in Kirkland because of the poor economy in the Pacific Northwest.

About four attorneys and 10 staff members will lose their jobs, according to Cooley Godward chief operating officer Mark Pitchford.

September 2003: Brobeck..... Yeah.... they sort of just... imploded.

Sure there were lots more.... but that's a start...

I don't think this is actually written by Lat. I wonder how long he will allow others to use his byline to make posts? This is clearly inconsistent with his style of writing.

43,

I'm not saying I think Lat isn't entitled to express his opinions on here--quite the contrary. Nor am I saying that I disagree with him, if it really is the case that he wants to see CWT burn. I just don't know that I've ever seen him express clear favor or contempt for any particular BigLaw firm such as (I think) I have today.

--33

In case no one has said this already, can I tell the commenter complaining about getting this news the day after the bar exam that the powers that be do not care, and that later in life you will realize that no one really gives a shit about you except you mother, and she is faking it most of the time.

Laying off 96 lawyers is pretty huge and all, but I think people will still get over it a lot faster than lat suggests. a) there are always thousands of desperate law students looking for biglaw jobs b) it sounds like they laid people off mainly in one specific area where they foolishly got very specialized and now have been burned. It's not necessarily going to have any effect on other practice areas.

48: rude!

48=McDouchebag

Is it a good time for attorneys with mediocre credentials to apply at Cadwalader (assuming a practice area other than finance)?

I realize they are probably moving some of the juniors to other practice areas, but anyone at Cadwalader with great credentials will probably jump ship at the first opportunity. Will they need to hire more attorneys?

Employees, commitment, integrity and honor over short term profits.

Unless, of course, law is no different than the construction business or a GM plant, and BigLaw associates as fungible as construction or assembly line workers.

Law students, listen up. I've got two words for you: litigation boutique. Sure, you'll work your ass off... But some straight talk here.... I turned down offers from slightly higher ranked, bigger firms. I love my job; I love the people I work with; and we are constantly swamped.

12 is my hero. If I were you I'd hop on the next flight to Thailand and live it up for a month - you'd come back with having spent 1/2 what you would if you were in NYC and you'd be tan and fat from the food and Singha.

"I just don't know that I've ever seen [Lat] express clear favor or contempt for any particular BigLaw firm such as (I think) I have today."

Paul Hastings (re: Shinyung Oh)?

Nixon Peabody (re: theme song)?

Sullivan & Cromwell (re: Aaron Charney)?

Although I certainly agree it's a good idea for the incoming CWT associate/tipster to start looking for a different firm, s/he needs to check out the terms of any bar stipend or reimbursement CWT may have paid out. Many firms require you to pay back that money if you don't stay with the firm a certain period of time. I'm pretty sure ATL put together a table reflecting firms' treatment of this a while back.

Dear 36:

Thank you for the correction.

The last sentence of my opinion is amended to read: “Your 1792 founders must be turning in their graves.”

There is no change in the judgment.

--32

Unfortunately, 52, because of the past explosion in people going to law school, even higher tier school law students will apply for TTT shops like CWT. I almost cried when my acquaintance at my school told me he was working at Jones Day. Really? T5 school and you couldn't do better?

The days of NY to 190 are over. Over for a long time. Its going to take 18 months for the economy to recover, let alone the legal market. It'll be a half a decade before it becomes an associate market again. Hope you all enjoyed the good times, boys, they aint coming back soon.

As for me, I'm doing well, but thats because my work involves a great deal of non-american assets, of which there are plenty of right now...

While #48 was a little blunt, I have to say that I agree with the general message he (or she) is trying to convey.

Here's the thing to all you kids out there who just took the bar exam - - you guys are like brides-to-be. The bar exam (aka, your wedding) is the most important day in the world to you, and you somehow believe that it should be the most important day to everyone else. To tell you the truth, I would have had NO IDEA that the bar exam was this week if I didn't read ATL. Again, like your wedding day, no one really cares but you, and perhaps maybe your mother.

Am I the only practicing attorney out there who reads this blog? I feel like ATL has been taken over by law students who think they can "comment" on the practice of law. You can't. You don't practice law.

Thanks 55.

I am no hero. I certainly put in my time and earned every penny of this having billables ranging as high as 2400 in certain years.

I am actually thinking about going to South Africa and then up north for a safari.

Oh by the way, we were informed we can also collect unemployment - so we will get $405 a week in addition to our salaries.

So after falling out of my chair when they told me I was getting 5 months plus unused vacation.... I fell out of the chair a second time when they informed me I could also collect unemployment ASAP.

12/61, I think you ought to blog on your experiences living on a BigLaw salary + unemployment without actually working for a couple of months. Could be something catchy--"here's what you could be doing with the money you're making if you didn't have to bill for it" or something. I think you've earned such a privilege..

...and also, you need a moniker if you keep stalking boards on ATL like you have the last couple of days. How do I know? Well..

Sorry if this has been asked and answered in some earlier comment, but does anyone know why CWT would give people 5 months of severance instead of just telling the associates that their last day of work is 12/31, but that they have to come to work if they want to get the money that would otherwise be paid as severance? I guess if they tell the associates to leave now CWT doesn't have to pay them benefits, but wouldn't CWT have the potential to make some money by keeping the timekeepers around (and still be out the same amount of money plus benefits)? I guess maybe there could be sabotage concerns?

33/47 et al.:

Despite Lat's disavowal of MSM status when it suits him (e.g., today's unsubstantiated Skadden rumors), he still wants firms to treat him as such, and gets very salty when they don't. It's pretty clear he's peeved that the WSJ Law Blog not only broke this story, but also was invited for a sit-down interview w/ the CWT higher-ups the night before. Meanwhile, he apparently got a run-around from their PR firm. The common thread among all of the firms & stories mentioned in 56's post? They all either blew Lat off or offered him only a curt response. When firms "play ball" with Lat and treat him like a traditional news outlet (which they probably should, given his traffic and influence with one of their key demographics), his coverage is much kinder & gentler (the McKee Nelson layoffs are a good example).

59,

Is jones day really that bad for middle of the class at Chicago, Columbia or NYU? I would have thought it was right in the sweet spot. There are tons of worse firms in both prestige and culture that have never had trouble filling their ranks with T5 grads.

12/61 - You have a great attitude about this. I truly hope you enjoy the next few months. Live it up for a bit, read some books you've been wanting to, stay up for days straight mastering Wii, go on some interviews, enjoy the holidays with your family, and start some place fresh in January.

62: :-)

I wouldn't call it stalking per se. I cleaned out my office yesterday. Went home. Rolled a joint. Cracked open a bottle of wine. Read a bit of ATL. Then went out to dinner. Went to bed. Woke up. Went to the gym. Got a blow job. Entertained a few phone calls regarding potential job opportunities. Then logged on to this again a few hours ago.

(Sorry you are still there buddy. I know. I know. Its painful.)

Number 60 - why can't any person but a lawyer comment on the practice of law?

Lat,

For the sake of the incoming class and the many intelligent, decent attorneys still working at the firm, please save your bitchy vitriol. Your reckless dissolution gossip betrays your jealousy of the WSJ blog. While a significant bloodbath, the openness of their actions and unprecedented severance packages should be equivocally commended. Think before you (ghost?) write. I otherwise appreciate and enjoy your efforts.

Thank you.

BEST,
Incoming associate

63: I am not sure the answer to that question but someone told me there is some tax benefit by paying severence as opposed to keeping you there as an employee.

Any tax attorneys on here? When tax issues arise my eyes usually glaze over and I think about 1,000 other things I rather be doing...

Dear 60:

We all have opinions--and the right to express them here.

In addition, this site has not been 'taken over" by law students, who have always been a significant (and welcome) part of the ATL demographic. (The AVERAGE age of the readership here is 28).

PS: Write in Kash.

6:12 / 64 is right -- Lat is pissed at CWT. See what he wrote yesterday:

"In connection with this story, we had dealings with Hill & Knowlton, Cadwalader's outside public relations firm. We could say more about how they weren't aboveboard with us, but we'll leave it at that. After all, being a little misleading is arguably part of a PR person's job description."

I will enjoy watching Lat rail on them for the next few weeks.

65, I agree with you on JD--not really a bad gig for them. They have some really solid people and departments: mid-mkt M&A, antitrust, appellate, employment, some IP (but, as you'd expect with any mega-firm, some weak points, too).

-former JD-er.

42 - I found the article. Holy hell.

Without a doubt, it is the single most chilling, disturbing, unbelievable factual news article I have ever read. Safe for work. No pictures. Just basically out of a psychotic movie.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/07/31/greyhound-transcanada.html

70: none.

69,

Don't you mean the openness and severance packages should be "unequivocally" commended?

-55 (who's still dreaming of Thailand and Singha)

76: No. I meant exactly what I said.

Dear #12:

So much for the nondisclosure portion of the "Release Agreement and Waiver" you admitted signed earlier today.

78: Clearly you didn't read it carefully. I haven't said anything NEGATIVE about CWT and I have only repeated things that were public.

You are a tool.

Just thought I'd point out for those who keep asking "why did CWT give them 5 months severance instead of letting them work to the end of the year" and then casting that as a bad decision.

Its a great decision for the people laid off. They get their pay and benefits, AND they get either a) time off or b) plenty of time/freedom to find another job,

Doing it now and paying the very generous severance is actually something the firm should get credit for. Its costing them the same amount of money and yet the associate are in a better position than if they were simply dropped in Dec.

And yes, they do get their benefits through the end of the severance term, medical, dental, etc.

For the sake of us law students preparing to do firm interviews this fall.. could you post a list of those firms that laid off lawyers in the early 2000s?

69/77,

Well, then people will proceed with being doubtfully or ambiguously commendable of CWT's generosity. The point of your post appears to be the opposite, but whatevs...

-55/76

Dammit 67, you make me wish I was laid off. And I also second 55 (and damn him too). Exactly what I would do. Full...Moon...Party.

The CWT summers misinterpreted Paul Mourning in yesterday's meeting. The head of ADR had to clarify that he meant to say that they were still planning to offer all the summers unless they did something extraordinarily stupid. When he said, "we will be using the same criteria and procedures as previous years" he meant exactly that. The same exact standards are in place.

As long as you are not a Cadwalader Chris, you're getting an offer.

61, I assume your cover will be blown if you proceed with you plan to go to Africa! As a result do not go on the safari or to South Africa, unless several members of the 96 class are also going to Africa.

number 12 is an idiot and prima facie evidence of why CWT is such a miserable shithole. it is filled with pricks, assholes and clueless idiots who defend those pricks and assholes. i hope the firm goes mudge rose on everyone's asses.

#86 needs a hug.

Gloat now, but the mustachioed one will be drinking all of your milkshakes in the near future.

69 should DIAF. I hope Bob Link touches you in an innapropriate place.

85 - Stupid, I am not. I have disguised a few things on here on purpose. I have a few local vacations planned and one would not go to South Africa at this time of year. The time to go is in Jan, Feb or March which is when I went at some time in the past.

And let me repeat this once again: I actually enjoyed my time at CWT and the people I worked with (which I have stated in numerous postings on here on a few different occassions) and I am very grateful for the generous severance package they gave all of us.

But I think you guys and girls at other firms need to ask yourself whether this just opened the door for other firms to do this. That would be my concern.

82: Watch this.

Laying off all of those people was shitty. It was kind of cool that they don't hide what's going on like many other firms. It's somewhat comforting that the laid off peeps get lots of money for not working. I'm doubtful this couldn't have been handled better. The firm is probably in a better financial position that it would have been. That was some crappy management.

Contrast with:

Holy shit, those assholes didn't call me back after they fired all of those people. Man, they are going down.

-77

How does it make any sense to keep hiring more associates when you have to fire 96 of them. Stop hiring people! Why would a firm want incoming first years (who may not even all pass the Bar) over existing first years that they fired?

#92: they save on the 10K raise that each of the fungible first years would have received come January. Think of how many milkshakes that 10K will buy for the mustachioed one.

91 you are a fool.

How is a firm going to hide firing 1/4 of its employees?

Anyone going there and feeling good should be shot in the face for stupidity. Their partners are shopping themselves in firesale mode and the doors could be shuttered by 1/1.

The right thing to do would be to advise every last employee to call every headhunter they know and call in every favor they are owed.

somehow PPP will still be $2m+

#95- no question, and the underlying leverage will be 40:1.

What are the odds that CWT has some kind of asterisk next to it when the Vault rankings come out tomorrow?

12/79:

A confidentiality provision is not the same thing as a nondisparagement clause. Apparently, though, I did hit a nerve, since you have now reiterated twice how much you like CWT.

No worries, just a cautionary note to those who signed nondisclosure provisions. Africa bound or otherwise.

#98 - in this case the two are effectively the same, since anything one could possibly disclose would be disparaging to the CWT.

Thacher Proffitt merger announcement imminent, News at 11.

96 applications for 1 job? :)
http://lawjobs.careers.adicio.com/careers/jobsearch/detail?jobId=11356830&viewType=main&networkView=main

Dear incoming CWT Associate:

You're going to have a hard time finding a job elsewhere, whether it be through Career Services or emailing resumes. I only know this because you want to "here [sic] from the peanut gallery."

QUESTION FOR #90

How did CWT decide on whom to can? Underperformers? (subjectively, objectively?). Are those who survived the axe better lawyers than those cut?

Please comment.

Thank you.

The firm that is hiring in Winston-Salem is Womble Carlyle from the 101 posting. You don't need to go through the 25 recruiting firms that took the posting off the WC website and then posted it as their own. Today the Charlotte Office Managing Partner promised the associates and staff that the Charlotte Office will not close.

Everyone's a Winner at Nix-on Pea-bod-y!

Those who think it is better to have 5 months severance and look for a job than to have 5 months to look for a job while you are still employed don't know how it is to negotiate in a market that is soft worsened by the fact that everyone knows you have been let go and if you don't take what they offer, there are 10 other people who will. The best thing would have been to read the writing on the wall and have looked for a job while you were being paid and had no work to do. That being said, there were not many jobs out there and maybe some associates were looking.

Agree with 8:30/106. While 5 months severance would be like winning the lottery right now (and is likely significantly more than I'll be getting if M&A/corporate stays slow for a few more months), it's going to be hard for these people who are competing against former colleagues, not to mention that these people largely focused on CMBS, which is a niche practice that doesn't translate perfectly into other corporate fields.

I hear the mustachioed one is hiring milkshake production assistants.

No questions it's going to be tough for these 96 people. But even though Cadwalader might be a TTT by NYC biglaw standards, and even though CMBS is really a niche practice that doesn't exist anymore, any associate that can survive three to five years there is probably pretty decent. They may hire from crap schools, but they're certainly not taking the bottom of the class and these associate have been baptized by fire. Even in this terrible economy, hopefully there are enough law firms in New York to absorb them. They may have to start back a couple of class years, or take a pay cut and work at a smaller firm, but I'd think that someone would want to hire them.

Long Live Neil Weidner!!

110 - Why do you keep posting the "Long Live Neil Weidner" stuff? I know he's a CWT Cap Mark partner? What's his deal?

110 - Why do you keep posting the "Long Live Neil Weidner" stuff? I know he's a CWT Cap Mark partner. What's his deal?

Maybey some of the fired associates can apply for these fine positions.

http://www.cadwalader.com/list_openings.php?type=1

One of the "96" here. In our office the layoffs appeared to be strictly based on seniority (time at the firm) and very little else. Overall, while the execution of the layoffs in the morning was bumbling, CWT does need to be given credit here for the severance terms. Partners even acted like they cared. I agree with many of the skeptical points raised by 32, and have my doubts about the picture that is being painted of the firm's future, but overall the firm could have been much harsher and chose not to be. Certainly for the folks who are still there, I am sure there is that nagging question of when it will be their own turn, and the summers are still in the office and this can't help recruiting or firm image, but I have to say for all the bad things said about CWT, this firm acted fairly generously, if not perfectly, and I have to give them credit for that even as I tuck my tail, swallow my pride, and think about life after Cadwalader.

One of the "96" here. In our office the layoffs appeared to be strictly based on seniority (time at the firm) and very little else. Overall, while the execution of the layoffs in the morning was bumbling, CWT does need to be given credit here for the severance terms. Partners even acted like they cared. I agree with many of the skeptical points raised by 32, and have my doubts about the picture that is being painted of the firm's future, but overall the firm could have been much harsher and chose not to be. Certainly for the folks who are still there, I am sure there is that nagging question of when it will be their own turn, and the summers are still in the office and this can't help recruiting or firm image, but I have to say for all the bad things said about CWT, this firm acted fairly generously, if not perfectly, and I have to give them credit for that even as I tuck my tail, swallow my pride, and think about life after Cadwalader.

54:

Where do you work? Would be interested in some more info

112 - Regarding the "long live Neil Weidner" stuff, he is kind of a running joke at CWT. Twelve months ago, he had half the firm working for him through all hours of the night. Now, he's got two guys at best and no work. Lat should do a thread on him. It would make for some interesting stories.

A few thoughts:

five months severance is generous, but people were promised a job till the end of the year. if fired at the end of the year and given three months severance, that's thee extra months of pay cwt would have to pay, but they don't any more.

anyone billing 50 hour months since last fall knew what was going to happen. if they didn't find a job until getting axed, it's usually because they couldn't, not because they didn't look for one.

anyone at cwt who after these layoffs goes from billing 50 to 150 hours a month should still look for a job. if you think otherwise, you are probably too stupid to be a lawyer.

even if you bill 200+ a month, it's a crapshoot.

the economy is awful and so is the legal market. it'll be tough for all 96 to find decent jobs.

to whoever said that 3 years at cwt is enough to prove yourself, what about all the first years they laid off? how's 10 months for proving yourself? that is the biggest dick move hands down -- and it shows that the firm may not be so doing so hot. first years are always the last to go, especially with the summers around. who do you think takes the summers to lunches? what will the summers think.

a lot of the associates at cwt are decent people and hope for the best for the ones who were let go, and for the ones left behind.

i wonder what firms will absorb cwt partners. iif you have one come into your practice, you'll be wishing cwt survived and they stayed there. so don't be too anxious for cwt to go bust.

60--I wouldn't be quite so harsh on law students who post--they have plenty to contribute, some of it worthwhile--but as a fellow practicing attorney, I'm 100% with you about the bar exam timing. I wouldn't have known it was this week until someone who's sitting for the bar asked me to write her a clerkship rec and mentioned it.

CWT is not a bad firm. Sure, a few partners make life miserable at times; but isn't that true everywhere? Aside from that, there really is a great group of people there who work really hard and are fun to be around. I'm not saying that they're perfect, I'm just saying that the general hate toward the entire firm is a little much. Hopefully, this is enough to shake up the leadership (or shake out). They never should have been this dependent on one practice area-- it was stupid. This was foreseeable and the folks running the show should be collecting their severances along with their associates.

it is my firm belief and conviction that the only people posting positive things about cwt are either their pr firm or their recruiting dept. not a single associate that i know over there would do that for them.

What would your advice be to an incoming Litigation associate at CWT? Lit hasn't been hit yet, but it's gotta be incredibly overstaffed with all the absorbed Cap Markets and Global Finance associates.

As a former TPW associate who got the axe earlier this year (and has since found a new job), my advice for the CWT guys: enjoy your five months. You will find a new job eventually, but it will take time. In the meantime, you get FULL PAY for almost half a year. This is probably the only time in your life that will happen. Go to Central Park, sit under a tree, read a book, listen to an ipod, take a nap, and think about what kind of boring, bullshit, inconsequential task you would be carrying-out if you were still working. You can do a lot worse.

All the negativity about CWT is misplaced. CWT is a splendid firm, arguably the best in the world. The issue here is not whether they lied to some folks in rif'ing them, or took a few liberties with their associates- they did.

But you can't hold a whole firm responsible for the behavior of a few, foolish managers in charge of the firm. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole BIGLAW system? And if the whole BIGLAW system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, anonymous message board readers - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to CWT management, but i'm not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

So let me get this straight, if CWT had given ATL the full story before WSJ this would have been treated in a sympathetic light? If true, that's pretty self-serving and all of us attorneys/law students should realize that we aren't the focus here - its a personal vendetta.

Firms don't respond to Lat for the same reason that celebrities don't respond to the National Enquirer... THEY'RE BOTH TABLOIDS.

The National Enquirer also has millions of dumbass Americans reading and relying on it every single day. Just because a lot of morons are reading your tabloid doesn't mean that you're entitled to get responses.

"Above the Law
A Legal TABLOID"

See the top of the page...

12/61 -- what is this about collecting unemployment? that info was definitely not communicated to me when i got my pink slip ...

I didn’t hear anything about unemployment either. I just assumed that it would start after they stopped paying severance, if we still don’t have a job. Did the firm say anything about it?

What happened to the Irish Actor?

What happened to the Irish Actor?

What happened to the Irish Actor?

Does the future belong to Cadwalader? Quote from the law.com article:

He has no use for Yale Law School.

"I don't think we even recruit there anymore," he said of the law school often regarded as the nation's most intellectual. "They don't seem to produce the kind of lawyer we want."

Yesterday's law.com article really skewers the firm based on its past comments.

In an interview with the New York Law Journal during those heady days, then-Chairman Robert O. Link confidently predicted continued success.

"Are we going to have difficulty sustaining this?" he asked. "No, short of some cataclysmic event that hits everyone else too."

Cadwalader is now confronting exactly that kind of cataclysmic event ...

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202423404457&rss=newswire

re: 123

There is nothing like taking advice from someone who displays horrendous judgment by joining a bucket shop that practices almost exclusively in a niche low-margin commoditized practice and was fired from. There's the job expert you should listen to. Having previously joined Thacher, a firm rumored to not exist within a few months, he is probably at best a C student dullard.

Some better advice:

Quickly find a diversified firm that isn't run by a mustachioed hayseed or his napolean complexed sidekick. Do not join a firm whose partners rose to prominence by firing all of their partners that mentored them after a secret meeting. They are awful people for whom G_d make credit crises and face cancer.

Ms. Ellis, please stop posting this nonsense about giving CWT credit for its severance terms, its idiotic and nobody is buying it.

I love how people making $160,000 to start with no experience all of sudden get all union and job-protectionist. A business was not able to support everyone. It had to lay them off. There's no reason to think it didn't do the best it could. And it stood by its word and gave them a profoundly generous severance. You people just don't live in the real world, do you? Have any of you actually had to lay people off? Or do you just do "search and replace" in deal documents all day long and think that makes you "practicing lawyers"?

There are lots of reasons to avoid working some place like Cadwalader but that they lay people off when a major business implodes isn't one of them. At least not once/if they recover.

126

While I agree with you, I would think at some point firms would realize that ATL can be just as beneficial to them as it can be harmful.

I think firms just need to suck it up and follow the example of celebrities who're on good terms with Perez Hilton.

Why is there such amazement at the fact that a large law firm laid off lawyers? Law firms are not immune to recessions or financial debacles. Frankly, I think CWT acted with honor in granting such a sweet severance package when they probably had no obligation to do so. Moreover, the recipients of this largesse were probably overpaid in the first place and it simply shows that compensation expectations for workers are just too high to justify the skill and value added to these service organizations. When first year associates make more than federal judges, it means that our value system is upside down and I am surprised that clients are not up in arms at this phenomenon. Web sites such as these are nothing more than "yenta" machines for people with too much time on their hands. What will impress me most is not how many of these laid off prima donnas start the cycle again by looking for charity at other large firms, but rather how many go out there, hang their own shingles and live day to day based on their own capabilities without having to suck off the proverbial big law nipple!!

Long Live Neil Weidner!!

Any word on layoffs at K&S? I heard rumors but no confirmation?

122, your worry is understandable but it made me chuckle. The litigation department was not flooded with capital markets and global finance associates. At best maybe half a dozen or so have migrated into litigation over the past year., and I only know of one who was given the chance on Wednesday (there might be a few others though). The firm barely even tried to move associates into other practices, except for a handful of 2007s who migrated to bankruptcy earlier this year.

So take your litigation spot, but if I were you I'd immediately start looking for another job as well. Anyone who thinks they are safe at CWT is either stupid or in denial.

137 & 139 are right on point

For those of you in cyberspace who might find this interesting. Neil Weidner is a TTT grad (Syracuse) who got a "C" in Con Law. (Not a guess but a fact, and anyone who thinks this is a rant and knows him, look him in the eye and ask). This is of course not to say he is a bad lawyer or guy since Con Law doesnt have much to do with putting together CDO's. Then you come to his LSAT score, well that's a whole other story.
Mudge Rose 4ever (RIP)

What has happened at CWT over the last 10 years is really a shame. When I joined the firm back in 1998, not long after "Project Rightsize" it still had a very congenial atmosphere, reasonably realistic billable hour expectations and a well-balanced practice. It was, in short, a gem of a firm.

Enter certain nameless corporate partner(s) whose abusive reputation(s) preceded them, the rise of the almighty securitization practice and astronomical PPPs and therein lies the end of the firm I was once so happy to join. No amount of $ was worth the rude treatment and abuse.

Not surprised how this one was handled. I would not have expected anything less.

Happy to have left in 2001.

What has happened at CWT over the last 10 years is really a shame. When I joined the firm back in 1998, not long after "Project Rightsize" it still had a very congenial atmosphere, reasonably realistic billable hour expectations and a well-balanced practice. It was, in short, a gem of a firm.

Enter certain nameless corporate partner(s) whose abusive reputation(s) preceded them, the rise of the almighty securitization practice and astronomical PPPs and therein lies the end of the firm I was once so happy to join. No amount of $ was worth the rude treatment and abuse.

Not surprised how this one was handled. I would not have expected anything less.

Happy to have left in 2001.

What has happened at CWT over the last 10 years is really a shame. When I joined the firm back in 1998, not long after "Project Rightsize" it still had a very congenial atmosphere, reasonably realistic billable hour expectations and a well-balanced practice. It was, in short, a gem of a firm.

Enter certain nameless corporate partner(s) whose abusive reputation(s) preceded them, the rise of the almighty securitization practice and astronomical PPPs and therein lies the end of the firm I was once so happy to join. No amount of $ was worth the rude treatment and abuse.

Not surprised how this one was handled. I would not have expected anything less.

Happy to have left in 2001.

Link made jokes at the exit interviews of the associates fired and all major partners and bankruptcy attorneys had a wine party the night of the layoffs

I wonder if what has happened at CWT over the last 10 years is really a shame?

126 = John Edwards.

Link is a pariah and a parasite. He is a half-educated hillbilly who butchers the english language every time he lifts his nosebuddy to speak. He is the George W. Bush of law firm leaders.

150 = funny

149 = it is. there were some really nice people there back in 1998. almost none of them are left.

144- Wow about Weidner.
Any other interesting tidbits?

to 144,

the guy graduated from law school a long time ago.

how do you know his con law grade?

sounds like you need to get a life if you can still remember what someone got in a course 10+ years back...

I think 144 just follows the general CWT bashing going on here. Though I wonder if Cravath would ever hire an associate let alone make a partner of C student.

I think 144 just follows the general CWT bashing going on here. Though I wonder if Cravath would ever hire an associate let alone make a partner of C student.

Who gives a pile if the guy got a C? if he is a bad manager, he's a bad manager regardless of his grades. He could be 3.5, editor of LR and president of the Poot Court team and none of it would matter. Last I checked, CWT has managers with good pedigree that are bad managers and those with bad pedigree that are good managers.

And as for schools, check out this roster:

1. Kenneth Forrest, Partner, WLRK, State University of Buffalo,
2. Sherri Reiss, WLRK, New York Law School,
3. Lori Sherman, WLRK, New York Law School, and
4. a bunch from UPenn St.

Granted, #2 is like a 30 year associate but whatever. My point is, schools only matter for the first 5 years out of law school. After than you have to be good.

148: REally? Please provide more info.

Lat is just pissed off because CWT said they don't have any use for Yalies. I think it is the sense of entitlement they are perceived to have.

Of course, have you ever noticed how full of himself Lat is. Hello, his blog is ATL, which is just Lat rearranged. Or what about the moniker, A Legal Tabloid. That is ALT, also Lat rearranged.

Yalies are full of themselves and CWT does allow that from anyone that isn't paying the bills. Lat, thus ATL, hates them for that.

160, who are you? John Galt?

I went to the CWT website to check on a person I know working there and saw that her title is "Law Clerk." Does anyone know why some people who went to law school and passed the bar (she should be a 3rd year now) have the title law clerk -- and not associate?

161,

Maybe, maybe not, maybe go **** yourself.

160.

I'm amazed at the several comments defending CWT. This appears to fall into the self-flagellation along with gay Catholics and poor minority republicans.

164 - you make no sense. I feel sorry for how dumb you are.

the elitism on this thread is a nice microcosm of the industry. part of the cwt hatred is people who were disturbed that cwt made big $ on the backs of non-T14 grads, thus making them wonder what justified the overinflated ego that derived from being a elite school grad. the decline of cwt helps reinstate their belief that the T14 degree still certifies them as smarter than the average bear.

165 (aka Robert Link) - i read that with a hillbilly accent and dueling banjos in the background.

167,

Are you kidding me? I had to let the banjo players go, it's hard out here for a [CWT partner]. Don't worry about them though, they'll get paid through December.

165

I amazed that with the number of responses that have been posted there hasn't been a post regarding whether any partners have been de-equitized. Does anyone have any info?

I amazed that with the number of responses that have been posted there hasn't been a post regarding whether any partners have been de-equitized. Does anyone have any info?

RE: 159

If I did I would probably get canned just like everyone else. But ATL needs to do research on that and they will get the most horrible story

137, 139, 143 = bitter lawyer hating staff in human resources at CWT - ellis, thomas or marsh clones. This website is for lawyers not law firm lobbyists. Guess what? You are overpaid too and CWT could overpay you b/c of the work of the same associates you belittle. HR wake up and look out the window because your job is going out there too when CWT fails. What will you do when you have to get a real job? I don't think wiping the crap off of the shoes of the summer associates or giving partners daily colonoscopies while secretly cursing them in your mind translates well into other fields.

I started at CWT in 1994 right during when "Project Rightsize" began. The attorneys at CWT are bunch of intellectually inferior lawyers - the only common goal is maximizing PPP - now that the shit has truly hit the fan, all of their true colors will show. Just wait to you see the number of partners who are shown the door - just a matter of time. Trust me - there is no loyalty to anyone at this place.