Nationwide Layoff Watch: More on the Cadwalader Carnage
(And a fresh thread for your comments.)
Back to the big story of the day: the massive lawyer layoffs, almost in the triple digits, at Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft. We thought now might be a good time to put up a fresh post, since the prior thread is getting a bit unwieldy (with 200+ comments — selected excerpts, after the jump).
So what’s there to add to the story? Let’s see…. Cadwalader issued a statement in response to our inquiries. It’s not terribly exciting — most of it repeats what CWT told the WSJ — but you can check it out, if you’re bored, after the jump.
We’re not career counselors, but you don’t need to be an expert to know that CWT is probably best avoided for the upcoming round of fall recruiting / on-campus interviewing. Generally you should run away from, not into, burning buildings (unless you’re a firefighter).
If for some reason you are still interested in working at Cadwalader — well, good luck with that. The firm is withdrawing from on-campus interviewing at a number of law schools. E.g., Rutgers - Newark (memo after the jump). The Rutgers memo states that CWT “will contact students independently to schedule interviews if they are selected.” In other words, don’t call them; they’ll call you.
Cadwalader cutting back on OCI isn’t terribly shocking. The firm has less manpower to cover fall recruiting, having laid off so many lawyers. It probably wants to reduce expenses related to fall recruiting (which can be a costly process for firms, especially if overnight travel is involved). And maybe the firm has concluded that the last thing it needs right now are more people on its payroll.
Finally, here’s a little tidbit we received by email:
At CWT in Charlotte, the attorneys who were fired came in this morning to find envelopes on their chairs breaking the bad news. Dicey move.
Dicey? We’re not so sure. The ginormous layoffs are already a PR disaster — and Cadwalader arguably wants to make itself seem like a less appealing place to work, at least in the short term.
But classy? Not very.
**********************
Remember, there’s more stuff after the jump: highlighted comments from the last thread, Cadwalader’s official statement on the layoffs, and an example of a law school career services memo announcing CWT’s withdrawal from on-campus interviewing.
COMMENTS FROM ATL READERS ON THE CADWALADER CARNAGE
To capture the flavor of the discussion, here are a few representative remarks — most from critics of the firm, a few from defenders — taken from this Cadwalader comment thread:
Wow. Anyone who was thinking of lateralling from their firm just got 96 other resumes to contend with.White actually used the term “fungible”? Ew buoy. Go work for a slip-n-fall before you interview at CWT, kids.
Awful. I’d take a job anywhere other than Cadawalder after this….including McDonald’s.
Like Bear Stearns, like Fannie and Freddie, CWT overspent and acted like they could keep up with the big boys, when in reality the emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes. Employees picked an unstable firm for the present $ rather than the future sustainability. No sympathy here.
Hindsight is 20-20, hater. You really think that some kid doing on campus interviews his 2L year can reasonably be expected to do research beyond Vault, Infirmation and word of mouth? You are delusional… It could have been anybody. That is, anybody qualified to work for what has generally been a solid V50 firm. Judging from your bitterness, I doubt that group includes you as a member.
As someone heading into OCI, I really hope this isn’t me in a few years, but why do people expect a firm to take a financial hit by holding onto attorneys it doesn’t need? Or, why shouldn’t a firm expand quickly to meet needs even if it is just a bubble?
[R]ightly or wrongly, this “business plan” is making for some terrible PR, not only among potential hires, but also likely among clients. And it can’t be doing wonders for morale inside the firm.
Um, word of mouth has bashed CWT for quite some time. Unless these kids are Amish recruits, they should’ve known. As Vault makes clear, “Change our name from CWT to PPP.”
What about the fact that all those fresh-faced, soon to be first year associates are all on their second day of the bar exam? I can’t imagine my stress levels if I was going to CWT, had a crappy first exam day, then woke up to this news…
This is rather shocking. 100 lawyers. That’s 15% of their entire firm. Unbelievable. Litigation is always the smarter choice—attracts smarter people also.
This generated a side discussion on litigation vs. transactional work, which we’re not going to excerpt because it’s off-topic.
How real is the prospect that CWT will completely shut down it’s Charlotte office? I know they have been slowest of all the offices.I’ve heard talk of CWT completely leaving Charlotte. I wouldn’t be surprised. They’re not generating any work here, it’s all servicing their other clients, from what i’ve heard.
I worked with CWT lawyers on many deals and always got the impression that the place was a sweat shop. Everything was cobbled together at the last minute, paralegals and junior associates ran the deals, nobody knew what was going on. When the music stopped and the whole frantic dance was over, things probably fell apart quickly.
Terrible PR, and for the long term profitability of a company that requires talent, this hurts badly. Good talent is hard to find, so a firm needs to make itself as desirable as possible, and contracting and expanding with the economy, to this degree, looks terrible.
Terrible PR, indeed. In connection with this story, we had dealings with Hill & Knowlton, Cadwalader’s outside public relations firm. We could say more about how they weren’t aboveboard with us, but we’ll leave it at that. After all, being a little misleading is arguably part of a PR person’s job description.
I advise the laid-off CWT associates to pool their capital and talents together in order to establish a rival structured finance firm. Rainmaking will be tough at first, but the vengeance, once attained, will be sweet.“[A]t the third, fourth and fifth years, lawyers aren’t fungible” - really?? I find it hard to believe that a corporate or real estate third year with the type of law school credentials a firm like CWT requires couldn’t be taught to be a litigation associate. How hard is it to teach writing, research, and document review skills? It’s not like CWT midlevels or running their own trials or anything that would require real litigation experience.
CWT’s Bankruptcy department is slow and bloated as well. Next stop is the capital call on the partners. My prediction: 12 months CWT won’t exist.
Maybe the feds should bail out CWT like it will the rest of the industry. If the taxpayers have to subsidize (and thus encourage) poor performance, why not include law firms.
CWT’s real problem is that litigation, corporate and bankruptcy are already overstaffed and slow. You can’t move the associates to other departments.
This blows. I wish these people the best of luck. Man, how the mighty have fallen.
Where to lay the blame?
Partners at many firms SUCK at management. They couldn’t manage their way out of a box. I mean, I used to think my managers when I was on the non-law side were bad; then I get into law and see the “flat” management style of firms def has major drawbacks. CWT made some really bad choices getting highly leveraged in a low margin, very risky (in hindsight) industry.What’s sad is that this is the oldest law firm in the US and it was poor management that lead to this downfall, not market conditions.
CWT’s business strategy was to run ahead of a steamroller and pick up quarters.
Everyone is hurting in corporate law but the mismanagement of CWT is breathtaking. Hiring several private equity partners in Feb. ‘08 and bankruptcy partners with no business in ‘07 (all with huge guarantees) has not helped matters. This disaster is CWT specific.
Finally, near the end of the thread, there was a rather funny exchange:
As the wife of a CWT summer associate I am freaking out. I need some questions answered! If he gets an offer do you think he should take it? They’re supposed to give offers after the internship is over at the end of next week. Can you please rank the top NYC lawfirms and include CWT on the list so I can see where it was and where it is now after the layoff? Why is it so hard to get a job with another firm if you’re a 3L? Don’t they do interviewing again?[Y]ou sound like a mother not a wife.
RELAX. Your husband knows all about the stuff you’re freaking out about now, and he’s probably even more upset than you are.
[You] should’ve married a real man.
The wife-commenter’s response:
205 - I did marry a real man you SOB. Why don’t you get a REAL JOB instead of having time to post on the internet all day. 208 - I’m not his mother fool.
Good times, good times.
CADWALADER, WICKERSHAM & TAFT LLP — STATEMENT — LAWYER LAYOFFS
There has been a very significant slowdown in the real estate finance and securitization markets, beginning roughly a year ago, which continues unabated. With CMBS issuance down 82% in 2008, it appears that the real estate finance and securitization businesses will remain slow for the foreseeable future.
Cadwalader has adapted to this market reality with targeted personnel reductions affecting 96 lawyers in our US and UK offices.
We regret the loss of these lawyers, who are talented professionals and have served the firm well.
It is important to keep these reductions in perspective. This action affects an important, but nevertheless discrete part of the firm’s practice — real estate finance and securitization. From 2003-2007, when CMBS issuance tripled, the firm grew rapidly to meet client needs. With CMBS issuance now at a small fraction of previous levels, we are making these personnel adjustments in response to this change in demand. In September 2008, the firm will have 580 lawyers, the same number we were in January 2006.
The rest of the firm remains robust, with expansion into new areas and growth in existing practices, and we will still have substantial capabilities in capital markets and real estate finance. We will continue to provide the superlative client service and astute legal counsel for which we are known and are confident of the long term strength of the firm.
RUTGERS SCHOOL OF LAW - NEWARK — OFFICE OF CAREER SERVICES — MEMORANDUM
Subject: OCI Updates
From: CareerDevelopment
Date: Tue, July 29, 2008 11:48 am
Classes of 2009 and 2010,
As you may have seen by now, Symplicity is showing firm selections for those employers in Session One whose interview choices have been entered into the system. Your invitation status for each employer will read one of the following:
preselect - you have been selected for an interview
alternate - you are on the wait list and will be contacted by our office if you are moved into an interview slot
not invited - you have not been selected to interview with this firm
pending - the firm’s selections have not been entered into the system
The interview schedule will be automatically generated once the selections for ALL Session One employers have been received by our office. Please remember that students cannot select or change their interview times for Session One interviews.
Also, please note that Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP, scheduled to interview on campus on August 13th, has had to cancel and will contact students independently to schedule interviews if they are selected. We hope to have the full interview schedule for Session One available by early next week.
As always, please let us know if you have any questions.
Cheers,
Office of Career Services
Rutgers School of Law — Newark
Center for Law and Justice
123 Washington Street
Newark, New Jersey 07102
Earlier: Breaking: Cadwalader Announces Layoffs of 96 Lawyers!
Nationwide Layoff Watch: Is Today ‘Layoff Day’ at Cadwalader? (Redux)




Comments
Comments hidden for your protection. Show them anyway!
First!
wow....glad I took the clerkship.
Atl, great idea of holding a contest while the majority of your subscribers are taking the bar. Yall need some MBAs in your shop.
Terrible use of the "Cheers" sign-off.
"Dear All,
Your TTT career prospects got that much bleaker.
Cheers,
Dean Blah Blah"
Guys at my high school used to start new threads all the time for no reason, and it was no big deal.
"Cheers" = TTT
The envelope on the desk isn't the greatest move. But, if its personal and from some hot shot in a different office, then I guess its ok, given that its an outpost. But if its a form letter from the Local MP, then its pretty classless.
I guess it also depends on what it says. If it says: "Your employment will be terminated on [date 3 months from now] but feel free to come into the office and look for a new job, and please call [Local MP] to discuss any questions," then I guess its ok. But if it says "Today is your last day. Your computer will not work. You get 3 months severence. Please pack up your things and wait by your desk and we'll escort you in a couple hours." then really its terrible.
Thanks for the new thread Lat - saves me from having to wade through 200+ comments.
Any firm that intereviews at, let alone hires from, Rutgers deserves to go down.
Everybody's fired at Cal-Wal-La-Der!
7 - Why would anyone's Member of Parliament be involved? Maybe for the London office, but that is quite absurd in relation to the US offices.
please please please get a copy of the "you're fired" letter.
Great point 5:27. The class of '08 has clearly been absent all week. Just look at that open bar exam thread with 387 comments.
I think I would rather get a letter than have to do the walk of shame to the partner's office where he breaks the bad news and his lackey stares at the floor in the next chair. In fact I would rather someone just left a message on my ansering machine at home so that I didn't have to come in at all.
11 = metric douche.
I reiterate my request for a pic from Hot Mom/Wife (193/209) in this morning's CWT Poo Poo Party thread. . .
10, you are missing two syllables. Shoudl be "Cad-a-wa-la-der" (Since everyone out there was thinking the same thing....)
10, you are missing two syllables. Shoudl be "Cad-a-wa-la-der" (Since everyone out there was thinking the same thing....)
11 - I assume you are kidding about the abbreviation for managing partner.
Thank you, 17. You'll have a promising career in writing law firm jingles.
9 - Looks like Cravath is going to be the next one to go down. Three associates and AND a partner from Rugters! Good heavens!
-Didn't Go to Rutgers
21, with leads like those, maybe you should replace Lat.
Lat is by far and away the best writer on this site.
He should just stop writing during the Idol contest so I will become accustomed to bad writing and won't vomit in my mouth when I read an ATL Idol post.
WTF does "TTT" mean???
TTT = HYS
lat bar exam open thread day 2 plz
CWTTT going down fast
Please everyone get off of Lat's sack. "Generally you should run away from, not into, burning buildings (unless you're a firefighter)." -Yeah, that guy is just oozing wit.
Uh, most of the time people on this site are bashing Lat.
i can not believe cadwalader went to the press before telling the people getting sacked. that is COLD.
if one of those first years went to hls, mark weber is going to ban cwt from campus.
mark my words.
Having been one of the 96 people, I must say that the worst part was that the statement was released prior to the layoffs - which I received on my blackberry as I was leaving my apartment this morning. However, 5 1/2 months severance when you already have a few opportunities in the works certainly ain't bad.
well I just spoke with my husband and he said that it will be harder for him to do on campus interviews because he's a third year. So I'm not sure what hes going to do if he gets an offer. This is pretty awful news and I wonder if this will have an affect on the rest of the economy... at least he has one year left of school to decide.
Does anyone know about being a lawyer overseas?
6:32: as much as I hate to say it...check with Kinney Recruiting. I hear they have Asian opps.
-Not a Kinney Recruiter.
32: As much as this sucks, you're better off being out of that hole. Good luck searching for your next opportunity, I'm sure it will work out for you
32: As much as this sucks, you're better off being out of that hole. Good luck searching for your next opportunity, I'm sure it will work out for you
Great news! My husband has callbacks with Wachtell Lipton, Cravath Swaine and Davis Polk. I understand they are not Cadwalader but may be in the same ranking group. My question is, will he be able to support me in the manner which I was suspecting. I am concerned because poor people are gross.
35: Thank you very much. I will be fine. I am not worried at all. However, I feel horrible for all the first years fired. It was a total blood bath and these "kids" are not going to find a job that easily in this market.
16
you wish...
37: Great! You sound like a perfect fit to be associated with any of those firms.
The 5 1/2 months of severance sounds unbelievable. How can they possibly afford to pay that many non-employees that much for that long? And why would they, considering that market seems to be just half that.
41: exactly my thought. I can imagine that partner profits will suffer tremendously, which *could* lead to partner defections, causing yet further layoffs. Not that I accept slippery slope arguments, mind you.
The explanation for the 5 1/2 months is simple.
When we had the first round of layoffs back in January - they looked us all in the face and said that we would have a job for one year and that they didn't want us being nervous that there would be another round of layoffs and jumping ship. So obviously the market is much worse than what they thought it would be so they fired the 96 now and will pay us all until the end of the year - which holds them to what they said to us in January. It was very generous. No complaints here. You can bet your ass that they will never make that mistake again. The extra two months for 96 attorneys adds up to a lot of cash.
My question is - what on earth are they going to say to the remaining associates this time around?
32: To a man, you will never find a person that left Cadwalader and regretted it. Not a person they fired, nor a person who left of their own volition.
I dare anyone to suggest they left CWT and regretted it. It is a cancer upon the profession.
44: Cadwalader treated me well. I did great work and worked with some amazing associates. It was sad leaving today, but I am sure you are right... much brighter skies ahead....
Guys at my high school used to get paid through next year even after they got fired from their jobs all the time. It was no big deal.
A lot of you guys are probably too young to remember Brobeck. In all seriousness, if your firm is in financial trouble, there is no better time to start looking for a new job than today.
Layoff via letter is lame and dangerous. If law firms are going to act like engineering firms they should try and get it right. Layoffs are an art form. You do them personally, and you never do them mid-week.
your all just jealous you couldn't get jobs at Cadwalader. Bob Link will drink your milkshakes.
It's true. CWT is so great that pretty soon no one will be good enough to work there.
Cadwalader Wickersham and TTTaft to $0!!!
People seem to be acting as if this will be an isolated layoff among law firms. But if this firm is having major problems with their transactional practice areas then other large firms must be having problems too. Pretty scary.. Frankly, I think the legal profession is in denial here.
52: I think it comes down to "irrational exuberance." Some firms, as CWT seems to have admitted, decided to become far too reliant on particular practices and types of clients when that seemed so profitable. Other firms that are more diversified are able to weather this storm and even see some practice groups increase billable hours and revenue to compensate for a decrease.
lat is very talented and this blog rocks
I was laid off today from CWT. My partners handled themselves with class. No letter on the desk for me. But the firm is extremely balkanized, the Capital Markets department most of all, and none of us would be surprised to hear how the Charlotte partners handled things.
Not only did I get the "you have a job for a year" speech from my partners back in January, they also assured us that "this will never happen again." I didn't believe them for a second, though sadly I think they believed their own BS. Anyone could see even then that they had their heads in the sand. Well-intentioned people, but the lesson here is what others have said: lawyers have no idea how to manage their associates.
47: Greg Markel was at Brobeck prior to CWT. It's probably good advice to stay away from any firm he's at.
To all the CWT associates that have been fired today:
I'm truly sorry about what happened. The lack of loyalty from the partnership is confounding, especially after your hard work and the long hours you dedicated to the firm. A law firm that focuses first on its PEP number before cultivating the talents of its own members is ultimately doomed to fail. You earned the title of lawyer and you should be proud of it. No one can take this from you, not even the CWT partners that have long forgotten the true values of this noble profession. Good luck to you all.
"I was laid off from CWT today. My partners handled themselves with class....Not only did I get the 'you have a job for a year' speech from my partners back in January, they also assured us that 'this will never happen again.'"
That does sound classy.
This would never happen to Cravath. Cravath associates are born Cravath with Cravath blood pumping through their veins and an inherent eagerness to work on complex cross border transactions.
I guess Cadwalader did what it had to do to protect its PPP, but good luck attracting talented applicants in the future.
It seems to me to have been a shortsighted move, unless the firm is going under and they had no choice.
Law Firm of the Year:
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
- 06/08/2007
"Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft was involved in some of the most important commercial real estate deals of 2007..."
http://www.iirealestate.com/articleFree.aspx?ArticleID=1369653
does anyone know if any partners gotthe axe.
I thank G-D every night that I chose Milbank over CAD.
Has anyone noticed the address (url? I don't know) of this post?
cadwalader licks your balls
Cadwalader, the new Shearman
A better URL would have been:
cadwalader_licks_Lat's_balls
Thank god I go to UVA and UVA screens firms like CWT from setting foot on our hallowed grounds.
I got laid off from CWT, and I'm trying to think positively - if I get another job quickly, I'll effectively get that bonus I was never going to get trying to scrounge up every morsel of doc review out there at CWT.
nice catch 64
68 - it sucks to work for a bonus which is essentially 100% out of your control -- I hope you find a job next week!
70 - Thanks. It was pretty frustrating to beg for work like I was some kind of contract attorney. I think this could end up being the best thing that could have happened to me - assuming I get a job before Christmas.
booo
Gosh - why do you need to find a job - think about starting a firm. With 6 months severance, it's a win-win as I write here - http://tinyurl.com/6dcoq9
Listen, law firm economics are one thing. But to lay off first years--the most "fungible" and least costly associates is another. Why not transfer them to all the subprime litigation going on?? They haven't developed enough corporate skills to be non-transferable, assuming they can write a coherent sentence and do some basic legal research. To lay off first years indicates a firm in deep trouble. They should have sucked it up and sacked upper level associates through bogus performance reviews or just reduced the size of their next few summer classes. This is a bloodbath the likes of which have not seen before in biglaw.
62, unsure if any partners got the axe outright. Heard that a few were de-equitized. Given the way the layoffs went down in NY Cap Markets (Stromfeld and Schetman moved to FRED, the remaining groups taking the biggest hit in NY by far), I think it's fair to say that none of the CM partners sitting on 34 and 35 are safe for long.
62, unsure if any partners got the axe outright. Heard that a few were de-equitized. Given the way the layoffs went down in NY Cap Markets (Stromfeld and Schetman moved to FRED, the remaining groups taking the biggest hit in NY by far), I think it's fair to say that none of the CM partners sitting on 34 and 35 are safe for long.
I dunno, folks... as one of the remaining Cadwalader associates (I was #97), I am hoping that the leaner, meaner firm will be able to weather the economic storm better than some of her bulkier layoff-averse competitors.
So is CWT Charlotte done? Not much there except for Capital Markets. What about other Charlotte shops? Dechert, A&B and MB all have big securitization practices.
letting go people who have9 months experience is a pretty disgusting thing to do, but getting 5.5 months of severance for working 9 months is pretty unbelievable anywhere outside legal industry.
on a negative note, has anyone even focused on what was offered at the support staff level?
68 & 71 - thanks for the insight. Keep your head up and enjoy yourself in the interim. You'll be fine.
Can you tell us what the story is w/r/t the Charlotte office? We'd like to hear it from someone who appears to have some knowledge.
78, I know Dechert CLT has shed some associates. They're definitely a going concern, but I hear they're not busy at all. I don't know anything about A+B. From what I hear, MB CLT's capital markets group (or whatever they're called) is actually busy. I don't think anyone will hit 2006 bonus numbers, but (somehow) they get deals. I think this is an anomaly within MB though.
79 - My understanding was that the support staff were given severance pay up through the end of October, so a standard 3-months.
CWT Charlotte is down to about 50 attorneys. Partners have stated emphatically that the Charlotte office is not closing. With 10 first-years starting in September, office will be the same size as in 2006.
I know others have said this, but I'll say it too: I find the acronym TTT to be obnoxious and overused, but CWT deserves the TTT moniker at this point. What a story state of affairs.
84 - Too TTT for me understand.
I very much agree though about this tale as a "story state of affairs."
77, for your sake and the others who survived the horrorshow today (I wasn't so fortunate), I hope you are correct. With one or two exceptions, I wish everyone well at CWT, even the partners who let the ax fall. But read the handwriting on the wall--the securitization practices were decimated, and the attorneys remaining in them for the most part are tending to the crap work that is left in the aftermath of the securitization implosion. Do you think loan sales, participations and internal CDOs can sustain a practice for long.
And even if you are outside the securitization practices, haven't you heard? The BR partners from Weil didn't bring any book of business, and yet the firm has, idiotically, contractually obligated itself to shell out millions to them despite this. As for Private Equity, that's a pretty dead practice area at the moment, and those guys brought over little business either. As for Dennis Block, rumor has it he will leave within a year (he's not actually a partner, you know, having negotiated the ability to walk away more-or-less when he wants).
So what's CWT supposed to sustain itself on? Its fledgling IP practice? FCPA investigations out of the Washington office? The goodwill of Chris White?
I'm not trying to be a dick, like so many of the 2L law students on here with nothing better to do. Just face the music. And face it sooner than I did by realizing that the biggest favor CWT did to anyone in the past two years was laying off those 35 attorneys in January. The job market was better then, and even though we all know that most (though not all) of them were the weakest links, many of them went on to get jobs at firms with BETTER reputations than CWT (e.g., MoFo).
Again, get your head out of the stand. The firm might be leaner, and it sure couldn't be any meaner, but it still isn't lean enough!
77, for your sake and the others who survived the horrorshow today (I wasn't so fortunate), I hope you are correct. With one or two exceptions, I wish everyone well at CWT, even the partners who let the ax fall. But read the handwriting on the wall--the securitization practices were decimated, and the attorneys remaining in them for the most part are tending to the crap work that is left in the aftermath of the securitization implosion. Do you think loan sales, participations and internal CDOs can sustain a practice for long.
And even if you are outside the securitization practices, haven't you heard? The BR partners from Weil didn't bring any book of business, and yet the firm has, idiotically, contractually obligated itself to shell out millions to them despite this. As for Private Equity, that's a pretty dead practice area at the moment, and those guys brought over little business either. As for Dennis Block, rumor has it he will leave within a year (he's not actually a partner, you know, having negotiated the ability to walk away more-or-less when he wants).
So what's CWT supposed to sustain itself on? Its fledgling IP practice? FCPA investigations out of the Washington office? The goodwill of Chris White?
I'm not trying to be a dick, like so many of the 2L law students on here with nothing better to do. Just face the music. And face it sooner than I did by realizing that the biggest favor CWT did to anyone in the past two years was laying off those 35 attorneys in January. The job market was better then, and even though we all know that most (though not all) of them were the weakest links, many of them went on to get jobs at firms with BETTER reputations than CWT (e.g., MoFo).
Again, get your head out of the sand. The firm might be leaner, and it sure couldn't be any meaner, but it still isn't lean enough!
77, for your sake and the others who survived the horrorshow today (I wasn't so fortunate), I hope you are correct. With one or two exceptions, I wish everyone well at CWT, even the partners who let the ax fall. But read the handwriting on the wall--the securitization practices were decimated, and the attorneys remaining in them for the most part are tending to the crap work that is left in the aftermath of the securitization implosion. Do you think loan sales, participations and internal CDOs can sustain a practice for long.
And even if you are outside the securitization practices, haven't you heard? The BR partners from Weil didn't bring any book of business, and yet the firm has, idiotically, contractually obligated itself to shell out millions to them despite this. As for Private Equity, that's a pretty dead practice area at the moment, and those guys brought over little business either. As for Dennis Block, rumor has it he will leave within a year (he's not actually a partner, you know, having negotiated the ability to walk away more-or-less when he wants).
So what's CWT supposed to sustain itself on? Its fledgling IP practice? FCPA investigations out of the Washington office? The goodwill of Chris White?
I'm not trying to be a dick, like so many of the 2L law students on here with nothing better to do. Just face the music. And face it sooner than I did by realizing that the biggest favor CWT did to anyone in the past two years was laying off those 35 attorneys in January. The job market was better then, and even though we all know that most (though not all) of them were the weakest links, many of them went on to get jobs at firms with BETTER reputations than CWT (e.g., MoFo).
Again, get your head out of the sand. The firm might be leaner, and it sure couldn't be any meaner, but it still isn't lean enough!
I worked with CWT and WGM at my old firm. We often asked ourselves, "what are these CWT guys doing? Why are they here?" We never quite got to the bottom of that question, but every time I called one of their associates, they seemed on the verge of tears. That was before the economy got bad. Struck me as a total shithole.
Good luck, guys. It sucks now, but you're gonna be better off in the long run.
86, 87 and 88
Too long...didn't read THREE TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!
kidding. On a more serious note, although I don't work at cwTTT, I think your post was quite informative.
Good luck to those of you that received the keys to your golden handcuffs today as well as six months of severance. Someone may have done you a favor.
Long live Neil Weidner!!!
I started working at CWT a while ago in one of the CMBS groups. I worked my a$$ off, but i got to work on really interesting deals and got terrific experience. I thought it was really cool to have one foot in world of real estate finance, and the other in the arena of securities offerings. I never did any ABS deals, but CMBS was pretty complicated stuff - not monkey work by any means. And i really enjoyed working at the one firm that overwhelmingly dominated the CMBS industry. You could determine market standard in the industry by sending out two or three emails.
The people in my group all worked hard, but were really nice. When the group was busy, we had dinner together in one of the conference rooms. Hours aside, it was a really great place to work.
Was CWT wrong to hire so many associates to do RE and securitization? i don't think so - they saw an opportunity and invested in it. I don't think that they should be criticized for cutting their losses when the market goes bad. This is a business - there is no reason to expect a law firm to be any more "nice" about their employees than an investment bank. And i think there is a limit to how much you can re-tool a mid-level/senior associate, without a substantial pay cut.
Should students shy away from CWT? Well, certainly anyone looking to do securitization/real estate work right now should look into another specialty. But i think CWT has an active litigation group. I never worked there, but i think they have good people. Not sure why a law student interested in litigation would avoid them.
I'm an incoming first year at CWT....WOOPS
Didn't CWT build a brand new office in DC this year? Looks like the DC story-limit won't be a problem for that office.
89 and 90,
86/87/88 here (sorry for the triple post!), you are indeed correct. In the long run, for those of us who are junior enough to retool or who were fortunate enough to have picked up enough skills to have been more than mortgage-backed securities monkeys for half a decade, our soon-to-be-ex firm has done us a nice favor. Even in this market some of us will land on our feet. As for 91, long live NW indeed!
Incidentally, has anyone heard a breakdown of layoffs by office and department? Did "Global Finance" (in quotes because the department no longer exists, technically at least) take a lesser hit than Capital Markets? I didn't get an exact sense of the numbers...
90 here,
Worry not about triple posting. You've got something fun to plan while the rest of us toil away, fearing layoffs and dreaming about six months of severance.
There were only about 30 or so capital markets associates left in the new york office before these layoffs, now there are probably around 10 left among all the groups.
92, I get the feeling we both worked in the same group (when you write about nice people in CMBS who would have dinner together, it's pretty obvious), though I don't know if we did so at the same time. I agree with your post 90%. if you landed in the right group it was a very nice place to work, hours aside. In fact, even considering hours, most of us still managed to have many more weekends off than not. The were SO MANY WORSE PLACES you could wind up in biglaw.
Still, I can't agree with you fully. I think the triple poster above is right. Too many people had their heads in the sand, and that includes the partners too. The expansion in 2006/early 2007 was way overly optimistic. At the time other groups were slow, and i mean groups within Capital Markets. If the firm had not been so divided by partner, resources could have been used far more efficiently. I never bought the belief that partners were gaining all that much by sub-sub-sub specializing [sic] their associates. If all the capital markets associates could do derivative work as well as securitization work, everyone, including the partners, would have been better off in the long run. But the partners let suspicion and jealousy of each other, and possessiveness of "their" associates, get in the way. The attitude affected nearly all the partners (perhaps Jordan Schwartz aside) even the "nice" ones like Lary, Richard, Pat and Anna. Ultimately, CWT Capital Markets epitomized the maxim that great lawyers make terrible managers.
The sky is falling. Firms well into the V10 are engaging in stealth layoffs (Skadden anyone?). Crucify CWT if you wish (and you should) but let's keep this in perspective. If you think that your V100 firm hasn't vastly increased "performance related" reductions over the past 8 months, you are naive, or maybe you work at WLRK/CSM.
But 96 lawyers . . . geez.
Hello there 97. 88 here. Your numbers are WAY off. There were in fact over 90 Capital Markets associates left in NY just prior to the layoffs (I had searched the firm intranet just last week, after a lateral departure of an associate on 35). Even if you take out the two derivative groups which are moving/have moved over to FRED (about 20 attorneys), there were about 70 lawyers left. NOW, however, there are about only 30 left. In fact, maybe even less.
Hello there 97. 88 here. Your numbers are WAY off. There were in fact over 90 Capital Markets associates left in NY just prior to the layoffs (I had searched the firm intranet just last week, after a lateral departure of an associate on 35). Even if you take out the two derivative groups which are moving/have moved over to FRED (about 20 attorneys), there were about 70 lawyers left. NOW, however, there are about only 30 left. In fact, maybe even less.
Hello there 97. 88 here. Your numbers are WAY off. There were in fact over 90 Capital Markets associates left in NY just prior to the layoffs (I had searched the firm intranet just last week, after a lateral departure of an associate on 35). Even if you take out the two derivative groups which are moving/have moved over to FRED (about 20 attorneys), there were about 70 lawyers left. NOW, however, there are about only 30 left. In fact, maybe even less.
Hello there 97. 88 here. Your numbers are WAY off. There were in fact over 90 Capital Markets associates left in NY just prior to the layoffs (I had searched the firm intranet just last week, after a lateral departure of an associate on 35). Even if you take out the two derivative groups which are moving/have moved over to FRED (about 20 attorneys), there were about 70 lawyers left. NOW, however, there are about only 30 left. In fact, maybe even less.
Correction, 97, my numbers of "over 90" include all attorneys, not just associates.
was it just cap markets? was corporate affected at all? anyone else?
My numbers are correct. The only associates I didn’t count were the 10 or so first years that never really belonged to any group. Prior to these layoffs capital markets in the new york office was gambro with about 15 associates, glick with 8 or 9, Jordan with 3 and weidner with 2. Now there are about 10 remaining total.
I agree with 91. LONG LIVE NEIL WEIDNER!!!
did someone mention skadden stealth layoffs. there is some action going on possibly and some of it might be stealth layoffs but we haven't really felt the pressure so far. In general, all the practices are pretty busy, including real estate (a lot of work-outs). The people I know who are leaving are doing so in their own volition--or that is what they say. any more insights?
92 is delusional - listen, Cadwalader should recruit at Rutgers - where are they going to recruit? Harvard? please. If I went to a great school and had an interview at CWT, i'd cancel STAT and replace with a firm I actually have a chance to get an offer from.
I can't believe CWT wrote that the rest of the firm is expanding and robust - watch me roll my eyes....not even believable! most firms try to shuttle associates in other groups - especially large NY firms - you can work in M&A as easy as you can work in structured finance - many firms do this anyway through their rotation program. If I were in this position, i wouldn't even consider CWT...Good Luck!
While it's certainly unfortunate for those that got laid off, at least the firm has been honest about letting people go for economic reasons -- and six months is very generous severance. 43, 45, 55 have said the firm treated them well in its handling of the departures.
I graduated during the last downturn when the dotcoms tanked and it was a bloodbath then. I'm at a V50 firm that is slowing trimming people. I keep telling partners here that people understand that sometimes companies let people when it's not economically viable to keep them, especially those that have friends in tech and other industries where layoffs are commonplace. What people do not like is being told that they are doing really good work and then being told that they are not doing good enough work and being shown the door. Being laid off with a decent severance because your firm acknowledges that it is doing poorly leaves the attorney in a lot better position in the market than someone that is "fired" from a firm that claims to be doing a-okay.
There are firms that are more transparent about their reality and then they are those that cater to the egos of their partners that don't want it publicly known that they aren't doing their job bringing in the business.
It's an exceedingly tough business and I agree that law firms would be a lot better off with professional management teams in place instead of partners making management decisions. But firms are faced with a choice of how to handle the current economic climate -- either with honesty or by covering it up.
A former CWT associate here (laid off before the current round):
Althought a large majority of you don't realize it now, it has now become inevitable that CWT will fail in the not to distant future (the partnership will dissolve and everyone will take their marbles and go home). It is only a matter of time before the partners face a capital call (if they have not already discussed this in private). These sort of disruptions make clients very nervous.
We must begin the post-mortem with a few observations:
1) First-off, CWT did not fail because it hired grads from lower-tier law schools, in fact that was the source of its strength. You don't need rocket scientists to do securitizations, real estate transactions or other simple corporate transactions. The vast majority of lawyers are risk-averse hardworkers and grinds, not creative geniuses. For most purposes, an American (or Rutgers or Seton Hall) law school grad is interchangeable with a Yale law school grad (apologies to the egomaniacs from Yale), in that sense Chris White is correct, law school grads/junior associates are fungible. This lesson is lost on most of the ATL posters. Unfortunately, if and when CWT fails, this lesson maybe be lost on most people in Biglaw.
2) CWT's biggest problem was that it did not grow from within. It lost its best senior associates to clients and other firms. To use an analogy from baseball (read Moneyball by Michael Lewis), CWT acted like the NY Yankees, it hired partners at the peak of their careers (right before major injuries) for large, guaranteed sums, rather than create dynamic, younger partners from the senior associate ranks. When those lateral partners don't work out, CWT loses large amounts of money. In addition the Firm became overleveraged as it de-equitized "underperforming" partners or created only non-equity partners, or special counsel. Very few people are invested in the success of the firm.
3) CWT placed too much emphasis on real estate and capital markets. This is the most obvious lesson. The bankruptcy department has not picked
up enought to take up the slack, partially due to conflicts because CWT represents all the major banking institutions in the United States (and there aren't enough rainmakers in the department).
4) The Bear Stearns fiasco was an exogenous shock. Bear was one of the largest clients (it may have been the largest) of Dennis Block. On a side note, I find it interesting that Dennis has made himself a contract partner, not an equity partner, at CWT. Maybe he knows something we do not.
5) Really bad PR. The commercial on MSNBC during Don Imus and Bob Link's various gaffes stand out as prime examples. These things add up over time.
It is unfortunate that the good lawyers will go down with the bad. Believe me when I write that a lot of good people work at CWT, including some of the partners (especially some of the junior partners who were the last to make it to partnership from the senior associate ranks within the firm).
111: Thanks for an amazing post. You should write a book about the fall of CWT (I'm not joking).
What does FRED stand for?
105: as far as I know, 12 associates got axed in "globle finance" department in this round and 2 1st years in tax department.
As one of the 96, and a now former CWT CLT attorney, I can tell you all that the envelopes on the desks were a mistake because they came from NY via interoffice mail and the guys in our mailroom didn't know what they were and just delivered them. There was a mad scramble at about 9:30am to get them picked up but some attorneys had already made it to their desks (we're not as lazy as the NYC folks in the morning down here) and opened a letter that started with "Please be advised that your last day is..." from some grunt in HR. It's a shitty way to find out, but I understand how it happened, and it wasn't what the firm intended.
The NC partners, IMHO, handled this as best they could and appeared to have been as shocked by it as we were... I get the impression that this came from the very top (Link and White), and that it came quickly.
106, fair enough regarding your numbers, except you underestimate the Glick count. Post-Swihart departure but pre-current round of layoffs there were 13 associates in the group (and six special counel, FWIW).
111, I'm onto you ;-) You betray your identity by your use of the word "exogenous" and your baseball analogy via Moneyball. 112 is correct, 111 should write a book, about CWT's downfall and about other things he witnessed over the years. He's one smart cookie. I never could figure out who 111's source was for all the inside dirt he pedaled the last few years, but it certainly made for riveting hushed encounters at the gym.
Anyway, 111 is *almost* spot-on about a common misconception regarding CWT...that its supposed lack of brainpower from hiring outside the top schools has contributed to its downfall. That is utter baloney. As 111 pointed out, most law firm work is hardly rocket science. However, I do think that 111's post betrays a disconnect in his among his various accountings. Dennis Block notwithstanding, many rainmakers conjure the bucks via their old-boy (and increasingly among lawyers, old-girl) network. Because 111, if I have his identity correct, comes from a social and education background of the most solid preppie (if Catholic) cred, he may not realize the degree to which those grinds hired out of the state schools and undistinguished private schools lack similar soft resources. (I should know).
My point boils down to this: of late the firm failed dismally at grooming senior associates (hell, at grooming any associates). However, even if it had groomed its second tier grinds as much as it should have, no amount of grooming would make up for the relative lack of connections that such students have made who attended elite prep schools or colleges, or (perhaps more importantly) attended top-tier law schools.
That is, the type of associates CWT was hiring were, on average (of course this is hardly a hard-and-fast rule; exceptions abound), were far less likely to have friends who went on to assume the truly senior positions at investment banks and hedge funds. Such connections are what often make a rainmaker, and CWT crippled itself in part by not being able to draw on such skills from its senior associate pool.
To sum up, then, CWT is failing not because its lawyers are not smart enough, it's failing because too few of them have lucrative connections. No amount of lateral partner hiring, onerous as it is to the bottom line, can overcome the economic advantage other firms have by tapping into a social pool that costs them nothing extra.
As so often happens in life, the smug guys win.
Those who have been let go shold be counting their lucky stars. CWT is a fastly sinking ship with no signals of a turnaround but very strong indicators that things will only get worse. How you can be happy that you were spared your job at a law firm that had two unprecedented rounds of layoffs over the last 6 months is beyond me. After the first-round of layoffs associates were treated to months of anguish over whether they would get paid their bonuses - a nice reward from the firm for their supposed prized associates. Those who were laid off get 5 months pay and the opportunity to go and work for a real firm. This market has fleshed out out what CWT really is, a terribly managed firm that put all of its eggs in the big lender basket and got burned. Now it is trying to remedy that by putting all of its eggs in the private equity basket. Pretty smart - how is that working out for you? Those who remain at CWT either are too dumb to realize their situation or cannot get anything better. To those who are gone - thank your lucky stars that you can now go to a decent firm run by decent people who make good decisions. Yes, such a place exists.
Those who have been let go shold be counting their lucky stars. CWT is a fastly sinking ship with no signals of a turnaround but very strong indicators that things will only get worse. How you can be happy that you were spared your job at a law firm that had two unprecedented rounds of layoffs over the last 6 months is beyond me. After the first-round of layoffs associates were treated to months of anguish over whether they would get paid their bonuses - a nice reward from the firm for their supposed prized associates. Those who were laid off get 5 months pay and the opportunity to go and work for a real firm. This market has fleshed out out what CWT really is, a terribly managed firm that put all of its eggs in the big lender basket and got burned. Now it is trying to remedy that by putting all of its eggs in the private equity basket. Pretty smart - how is that working out for you? Those who remain at CWT either are too dumb to realize their situation or cannot get anything better. To those who are gone - thank your lucky stars that you can now go to a decent firm run by decent people who make good decisions. Yes, such a place exists.
Envelope on the chair? Geez. Why not just tell people to check their profiles on the firm website and if there isn't one, that means you need to vacate your office?
as an associate still employed by a v10 firm - i will not take my job for granted, i am dispensable, and every day i thank my lucky stars that I earn more money that a good portion of the population...yes we work our a$$es off for it, but it's worth it (to me, anyway)...
What do you think is more likely?
1) The fired people yesterday to hint to summer associates not to take the job and they will try to get the firm to a smaller amount of people to build up again
2) They fired peoplebecause abovethelaw knew what they were doing so they HAD to tell everyone yesterday. But they were going to wait until after the summer
3) They plan to fold the company and get the highest profit per partner?
It could have been worse. From what I hear, the decision was between an envelope on the chair or just packing up the now pocket-sized CLT office and moving buildings. With the numbers left, they easily could have done it in a night.
As far as the CLT office goes, what's the point of having it if it's not generating any business? It's obvious that they don't believe the work is coming back for a very, very long time. If they thought it was coming back next year, they wouldn't have fired people. With the severance they're paying, they're not going to start saving money on the decreased bodycount until January anyway. If they thought it was going to come back soon after that, it wouldn't be worth it to let people go.
Again, what does FRED stand for?
And can we get a copy of the CLT letter?
I believe "FRED" stands for Funds, Regulation and Equity Derivatives.
They might as well just rename it "Capital Markets"...
DIdn't CWT say first round of cuts were deep enough so that they would not have to do this again for a year?? More BS from a BS firm. the wheels are falling off of the bus and the management at CWT has no idea of what they are doing as has been proven by the constant missteps, unkept promises and just plain old BS.
Long Live Neil Weidner!
Thanks 124.
Coming out of law school a while back my choices were to go to a regional firm or work in CWT's then-fledgling Charlotte office. I went with the regional firm and my career has progressed very quickly. The CWT lawyers could barely comprehend why I wouldn't sacrifice my career and my happiness to be able to say there are a couple extra zero's behind the dollar value of the transactions I'd be working on. It feels good to be right.
Remember the Cadwalamo.
is it true that the CWT NY Office has a wine and cheese social for the laid-off attorneys yesterday evening?
is it true that the CWT NY Office had a wine and cheese social for the laid-off attorneys yesterday evening?
37= LOL.
Could someone please tell me what TTT means??? it is seriously starting to drive me crazy!@!!!!
Goddamn it, I ranked CWT high on my OCI bids, and they make this announcement two days after bidding closed. They're still coming to my campus, so maybe, if I get the interview slot, I'll have the hotel deliver a pink slip to the interview room rather than showing up.
Gosh, I miss Thelen
Wow. Poorly run firm with idiotic name lays off large number of lawyers in real estate securitization group. DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING AT ALL!!!!!!!11!
Shearman did it too (def less people)
here's what i don't understand: if they have to pay everybody to the end of the year any way, what is the advantage in canning them all now? is the savings on health insurance really worth this? are they consolidating and giving up office space?
If an attorney's bio is still on the website, does that mean they were spared? Checking in on some friends who work there and wanted to know if they were let go before I saw them next.
We all were screwed by CWT. But of course the partners will still have their million dollar bonuses. Right now, the partners are having a meeting wtih the remaining staff stating that the lay-off's are over. This is what they promised us several months ago.
What makes it worse, someone in NY screwed up, we came into our offices and found the "Laid-off" envelope on our desks. They couldn't even get laying us off right.
I look forward to the glorious day when Good Ol' CWT closes shop for good. Even with management changes, it's going to do no good--CWT is finished.
130,
Erroneous. All fired CWT employees will receive coupons to Bennigans.
"every day i thank my lucky stars that I earn more money that [sic] a good portion of the population"
Now there's something to be proud of.
142 - is there any other reason to be in big law? Would you do this for teacher salary? No? Didn't think so. Remember, we're all killing babies in 3rd world countries.
133 - Google it and chill out.
133 - TTT means Triple Tier Toilet. But in Cadwalader's case, it's TTTTT (Triple Tier Toilet Times Two)
TTT = Third Tier Toilet
Like most abbreviations used by internet dorks, its pretty immature and unfunny to the average person. However, for those with little social skills who thrive in a computerized world it is the source of much amusement. Its best to just ignore those who use the term and move on the next comment.
Picking up something from the prior thread--"I think CWT was referring [in the WSJ Law Bolg interview] to CMBS issuance, not MBS issuance. Most likely a miscommunication or misunderstanding."
No, not a miscommunication--it can't be CMBS either, as CMBS in '07 was $232B (much lower than the $334B posited by CWT), thru 1st half '08 was $13B (also much lower than the $60B posited by CWT for full-year '08). None of the numbers in the league tables match up with what White said--I think he was talking about CWT reps (all MBS), not total market. It would be difficult to believe that he would be so poorly prepared for a scheduled interview, esp. on one of his key talking points.
Third Tier Toilet i think
Killing babies in third world countries is what keeps me going.
Sounds Brobeck in the dotcom era...
Don't listen to the third tier toilet garbage TTT means--Top Tier Talent
This is obscene. They are flooding the market with CMBS talent making it impossible for all of them to find work. If I were a summer associate there, I would scramble to try to find somewhere - anywhere - else to go.
not that i am an aplogist for cwt and i have nothing to do with them and would not work for them - just based on their reputation to associates.
are the complaints that they should be more loyal or just on the mismanagement. if the latter what should they have done differently, there was a hot market and they invested heavily and now the market went down so they sold out. i guess that answers it though, people have to know cwt's reputation.
maybe this just shows that law is more than ever tied directly to wall street and the corporate clients.
again, nothing to do with cwttt
I was a 2L summer at Cadwalader CLT in '06 (a mistake in itself) and did not go back. I took a job at a small niche market IP/Corporate firm at a small pay cut, but with better hours and friendlier bosses. When they gave out offers, only 5 of 12 went back, which really surprised them but I don't think surprised the associates or anyone in our summer class.
First, the summer program was run poorly--they didn't let us split, they did not invite significant others to events on the weekends when a large number of us had them visiting, and they let a mean, bitter woman run the program.
Second, we all felt the problems with the CLT management. Stu Goldstein turned most of us off to his practice (Capital Markets) and there just was not a lot else to choose from. The partners didn't get along and didn't agree on the decisions.
Third, I don't care what any of you CMBS lawyers say or think, CMBS is Mad Libs for Lawyers. You just go through and fill in the blanks. The hours spent working through the night at the printer were largely spent fixing commas in a series (they liked a comma after the "and" and horror of horrors if it was left out). The work is just boring, and the CLT office didn't have anything else to offer. I mentioned working in their Financial Restructuring department and they actually said they didn't see that there would be much of a market for that in the fs future.
All that said, the reason for Cadwalader CLT's demise is squarely the layoffs at Wachovia and BofA and the reduction in both banks' stock prices over the past two years. Those are their only real clients. What did they think was going to happen if they went away?
The seven of us that did not accept our offers were able to leverage our CWT experience and offers and found jobs elsewhere. We should all be very thankful we went through the work of 3L interviewing and ended up where we are now. My heart goes out to those who ended up there and are among the 96 victims.
Although, 5.5 months severance pay would be a nice break . . .
153 - a little foresight goes a long way; cwtt let greed rule their decisions with no thought as to how this would affect associates, etc. when the area cooled off, which was inevitable.
138: The advantage of doing it now is that it will scare off the summers from accepting their offers
Don't these firms understand that most every associate reads legal blogs and that actions such as these are transparent? It makes no sense in view of the elevated salary structure which is clearly designed to attract top candidates. This is yet another example of how the leadership at big law firms really don't understand what the hell they're doing and have simply been lucky thus far.
1:55 i understand that, however, that is their reputation - do whats best for ppp and people have to know that and expect this from them. again i am not apologizing for them, just saying that its not a surprise from them
158 - what exactly is it that you want to hear?
TTT stands for Third Tier Toilet, in reference to the Third Tier law schools ranked by the U.S. news as being between 101 to 150.
As 146 noted, it is mainly used on the net by internet dorks and snobs who use it incorrectly to mean just bout anything, since it doesn't apply to Rutgers (ranked in the top 100, which now according to the US news is "Tier 1") which has partners and associates in just about all of the top NY firms, and it certainly does not apply to Cadwalader, despite the recent layoffs.
- don't have a dog in this fight, just hate misinformation
160=TTT if I understood his definition
I am not a lawyer. I just play one on TV. But seriously, folks, so many other businesses ebb and flow with layoffs according to their financial health. Anyone in the ad business is accustomed to this sort of thing. Same with manufacturing, retail, etc. Just because of those ESQ inits after your name, do you really have the luxury of feeling so secure in your job? A firm that reduces head count in a downturn seems pretty smart to me.
160:
As much as I concur with your assessment that Rutgers is not a TTT - this coming from a man who went to a lower ranked T14 school that is constantly bashed as a TTT - I would have to disagree with you about CWT.
CWT, regardless of its recent climb in the AMLAW PPP rankings, has long had a reputation as a miserable place to work, filled with miserable people. CWT is ruthless; tactless; disloyal. A little bit of research into the firm's mid-90's dealings would reveal much: Google the phrase Project Rightsize along with the firm's name. See what you find. Not only have there been previous rounds of layoffs; not only is the firm known for it's make rain or go fuck yourself mentality; it is also widely recognized as having some of the most miserable associates. No, we're not talking 1 or 2 stupid associate satisfaction surveys. We're talking years of those stupid surveys plus word of mouth consistently places CWT at the very bottom of the barrel re desirable places to work. So maybe it made some big money in 2006/2007. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a... TTT.
Even as a 1L, I was told to steer clear of that place.
Half of this thread has turned into the enteral and mostly idiotic litigation v. corporate debate. They're both complicated, they both have smart people, and they both have their share of lousy lawyers. All that and whether or not a 4th year corporate associate could theoretically "learn" litigation is beside the point. An axed fourth year CWT mortgage security lawyers simply cannot get a litigation position because no firm will hire him/her. Sorry, but thems the breaks; there are plenty of litigators floating around anyway and no client or firm is going to pay for you to get up to speed.
Don't despair though. Litigation sucks usually too and entire litigation practice areas go by the wayside all the time-- it's just not usually a function of general economic health.
"A firm that reduces head count in a downturn seems pretty smart to me."
Yeah, that's true, but the problem with it in Biglaw is that there are not the same sort of opportunities to be re-hired when things pick up as there are in banking, advertising, whatever. Resume gaps are (often, but not always, wrongly) perceived by those who make hiring decisions as a sign of personal failings in a lawyer, especially one was at, or is hoping to land at, Biglaw.
Some people are saying it's "not the big of a deal" because there were only 20 fired from the NY office and speculate they are just trying to close their NC office. I just want to say that one of the 20 was literally one of the best lawyers in the country in his specialty, and one of the nicest people I have ever met. If they're going to fire someone like that I can't imagine who they won't fire.
162: Unlike writing radio jingles or stocking shelves at Target, the law is supposed to be a noble, learned profession.
167 - then why does everyone want us dead?
Hi, curious, why so many comments re "Long Live Neil Weidner?" I knew him a logn time outside of the firm, is he well thought of or is it some kind of a joke?
Has the firm directory on the Cadwalader's web site been altered to identify who has been effected by layoffs? Running through the capital markets associates biographies, you find some with a narrative but many others have no narrative (just school and contact information). Was that always the case?
screw the current CWT summer associates, what about us incoming first years? What the hell do we do? Seriously, can we get some advice on how we can start looking for other jobs. Should we be doing this stealthily? Will other firms take us this early? Do we have to wait until after the bar?
And come on, couldn't they have let us celebrate being done with the bar exam for a night? This was the first thing I heard about after the exam and that was not cool.
171 - assuming you did your due diligence, you should have expected something like this from CWT. At least you're not 4 or so years into a specialty that makes you currently unemployable. If you got an offer at CWT, something tells me you'll be ok.
LAT, care to poke around about the Skadden stealth layoffs?
163 - 160 here, you make a good argument on Cadwalader. You are probably right about their perception going forward. I had always known them to be a fairly respectable shop before now, but I must admit I never did any extensive research on them before now either. All I knew was word of mouth reputation here in NY.
Lat, any truth about the Skadden stealth layoffs?
171: get all your questionnaires and contacts done now, even before you find out if you pass. then you can submit your stuff the same day you pass, and get admitted at the front of the pack and not have to wait 6 months like everyone else. (if you live in manhattan that is.) b/c yes, you're probably going to want to start looking, and it will be vastly to your advantage to be admitted already when you do.
- Getting cityslickers to hire this country bumpkin, $60,000
- Successful execution of Project Rightsize, $20 million
- Firing 100 attorneys during bar exams and an economic downturn, priceless.
157 -- say what you will about the layoffs, but they were relatively transparent.
I used to work at CWT. Good experience, but the worst place that I have ever worked. I am really looking forward to Link and White finally meeting the reeper. It is a long time coming.
177 - TITCR.
169 - My guess is that the "long live Neil Weidner" stuff is not for real. He is kind of a running joke at CWT. Twelve months ago, he had half the firm working for him through all hours of the night. Now, he's got two guys at best and no work. Lat should do a thread on him. It would make for some interesting stories.
Cadwalader sucks. This firm is falling fast and hard. Use the resources and take what you need and get out while you can.
Oh my God! A business laid off its employees during an economic downturn!? THE OUTRAGE. I will add this law firm to the growing list of "TTT's" including all major airlines, banks (I will be hiding my cash under my bed), retail stores, and Starbucks. Any company that lays off its employees when there is no work to go around is heinous and cruel. We all deserve to get paid six-digit salaries no matter how bad the economy is. I'm sure that if I was a partner, I would gladly volunteer to take a significant pay-cut to keep my employees on my payroll.