Guys in my high school used to wear shoes. It was no big deal.

i wear flats to commute. goes better with the work clothes, particularly skirts. sometimes i stay in the flats all day long. i dont' understand the white nikes, but maybe these women have foot problems, i usually give them the benefit of the doubt.

Tell your tipster to try taking the DC Metro - stairs galore - in pumps.

After 9/11, I think wearing tennis shoes is probably smart, although ugly. When I first moved to NYC, my roommate gave me some smart advice: "if you can't run in them, don't wear them on your commute." While I don't pair white sneakers with black suits, I always make sure to have a pair of shoes I can "run" in accessible.

As a woman attorney in a big firm who is 7 1/2 months pregnant, I wear the flip flops for commuting and yes, even wear them into the building. No I don't feel guilty or embarrased at my choice of footwear (I do change into an inch heel after I stop at the bathroom for the 8th time that morning and sit down at my desk).

Who needs commuter shoes? Just do what that Skadden lawyer does and take a town car both ways:

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/07/skadden_arps_car_service_suit.php

For those of us who actually get off our fat a** and run, running shoes are perfectly appropriate.

Take them off before you enter the building though or be prepared to suffer evil eye glances from senior male partners. The some high ups here have pet peeves about flip flops inside the building.

What about for guys?
I walk to work (10-15 minutes) in Manhattan. Is it acceptable to wear sneakers with my biz casual and leave dress shoes at work to change into?
This would be more comfortable and also make my dress shoes last longer.

I think it's fine to wear them as far as your desk, but change them first thing when you get there. Also, bright white sneakers always look stupid with work clothes. Just get some flats for pete's sake.

I live in Chicago and either walk 25-30 minutes or take a bus to the office, which also requires walking a few blocks. Walking that far in heels would both (a) ruin my shoes; and (b) ruin my feet. Neither are attractive options. I wear flats and flip flops for summer and various boots for winter. Silliness aside, if I want to change them before I get into the office, it's my prerogative. Was the commenter a man? Has he seen how fast you need to re-heel even expensive heels if you parade around the street with them on?

none of this is a problem if your gellin'

4:30
Aside from having sex with men, that comment is probably the gayest thing about you.

these shoes are not good enough for business casual. if less is accepted then these are fine. its quite simple, these shoes look like crap but if its not important to the firm then wear what you want

I second 4:30's query:

Is it cool for dude's to rock running shoes into the building? I can see why it wouldn't be, but you'd look like a jackass changing shoes on the curb.

Heels...the taller the better...

this is horrible.

we're talking about shoes???? seriously???

let's do a post on Sex and the City next, followed by a post on the best mani/pedi places in each city, ending with a post on The Hills.

shoes = TTT

4:30...who cares? you're the one who has to walk your commute, so do what works for you.

i walk ~20 minutes to work every day, and wear a pair of black adidas cross-training shoes. they blend well w/ whatever i wear (as opposed to white running shoes), and they're great to walk in. and yeah, my dress shoes stay a lot nicer b/c they stay in the office.

i don't see the problem with wearing commuting shoes "into the building." are you forced to sit on the steps outside and change shoes in the middle of pedestrian traffic, like at the airport? do these "senior male partners" give the evil eye to someone with a coat on in the winter, or must you take that off before you enter the lobby as well?

Don't hate. Some of us will be new to the world of biglaw this fall and need to know the ins and outs. All I'm sayin is, can a dude rock some running shoes to his desk, or must he change before entering the bldg.? Whether or not I enjoy the company of men (do I!) is neither here nor there.

4:38 - agreed this is horrible in fullest terms. especially now that some are talking about mens shoes and can a man change etc. what the hell is going on here!

i don't see why an attorney should ever be allowed to wear anything less than business casual, at a minimum. what if a client sees you on the street, or in a restuarant, or at a Yankees game?

If you're a dude, get heel taps put on your dress shoes. Inexpensive way to extend the life of the heels on your shoes.

FRENCH CUFFS ARE AMAZE as long as you rock cuff links that match your status within the firm (nothing ostentatious for first years or summers).

4:43(1)...wear 'em if you want to. it's not the thing that's going to make or break your legal career.

rather, part of what will make or break your career is the ability to accurately separate the important things from the unimportant.

4:43: Wear what you want to to commute and then change at your desk. If you're in BIGLAW, there's always going to be some douchebag who thinks you dress inappropriately in some respect - you can't win. Don't be governed by the extremes and just use your judgment.

I think running shoes or Mephistos or whatever are about ten times more comfortable than flats or sandals. Also, sandals on the NYC subway guarantee filthy feet.

Flip flops have no place anywhere in a professional services environment, period. Running shoes are actually much more acceptable, IMHO.

If you're an attractive woman please feel free to wear whatever you want.

4:43(1)- I would go with black shoes tennis shoes or indoor soccer shoes or something. Running shoes might look too ridiculous with a suit or business casual.

4:43,

It is not acceptable to wear them period. You're a guy. One, having to walk 20 minutes is not that big of a deal. Two, if it is that big of a deal, buy more comfortable shoes.

I walk in my MBTs (yes they are white, and yes I wear them with my black suit) to the office. My shoes are in my bag. I change in my office. Then change back to my walking shoes when I leave. That this causes someone to believe I have violated some fashion rules, too bad. I wouldn't wear them in court, in a client meeting, etc., but with my feet I'd rather be comfortable on my way to and from work.

4:43 - "Whether or not I enjoy the company of men (do I!) is neither here nor there"

uh no its relevant otherwise this topic woould not be discussed, just horrible what has happened to atl

Nike is coming out with a sneaker for this- "Air Litigator"

Well in keeping in the spirit of the thread: So are you a Samatha, Miranda, Carrie, or a Charlotte? I am totally a Charlotte, but I soooo want to be a Samatha. But gosh darn it, I love those shoes on Carrie. And being the big corporate lawyer in the Big City, I guess I'm a little Miranda too.

I h ave actually seen two MEN wearing flip flops to work this summer. French cuff shirts sans suit and tie is f'ing guido. And what's the deal with men's shoes? The plastic looking ones with the big, unrefined square toes, the side seams, etc, are all f'ing cheap looking. The gayest are the ones with the curling up toe box.

I h ave actually seen two MEN wearing flip flops to work this summer. French cuff shirts sans suit and tie is f'ing guido. And what's the deal with men's shoes? The plastic looking ones with the big, unrefined square toes, the side seams, etc, are all f'ing cheap looking. The gayest are the ones with the curling up toe box.

Well in keeping in the spirit of the thread: So are you a Samatha, Miranda, Carrie, or a Charlotte? I am totally a Charlotte, but I soooo want to be a Samatha. But gosh darn it, I love those shoes on Carrie. And being the big corporate lawyer in the Big City, I guess I'm a little Miranda too.

Nike already *has* a shoe for this, at least for women. Cole Haan makes sneakers, slip-ons, and ballet flats with Nike Air soles, that are both extremely comfortable, *and* stylish. Suck it up and buy a pair to walk in.

I have lived in both DC and NYC. In DC, I took the Metro and I always wore comfortable tennis shoes to and from work. I never received a strange look, because every other woman on the Metro did the same thing. However, in NYC, I walked to work every day and I only wore heels. For some reason, NYC gals believe 3-4 inch heels are like tennis shoes, and give strange looks if you are wearing them for anything other than running/exercise. I know it looks silly, but my feet were killing me!

4:57: Why on earth would I spend that kind of money on a fancy shoe-with-a-sneaker-sole to grind into the ground while commuting? Oh, right. To placate people like you who are offended by the sight of people commuting in sneakers.

I think the guy at Winston was in part right on

NY to 4-inch!

4:48, what do you think of your MBTs? I've seen them around and wonder if they really do all that they claim to. Are your legs more toned?

I challenge any guy who thinks badly of a woman for wearing comfy sneakers to and from work to spend a few rush hours in her tasteful 3-inch pumps.

Personally, I never looked down on a man for loosening his tie on the Metro.

I don't understand how people handle the commuting shoes situation with pants that are hemmed for heels. If I tried to wear flip flops, I'd end up walking on the bottom of my pants.

4:58: I live in NYC and wouldn't look twice at somebody commuting in tennis shoes.

4:59 -- how about the fact that you can have it both ways -- take pride in how you look, and be comfortable -- instead of immediately dropping to lowest/easiest way to do something?

5:00 - no way am i getting rid of 8 inches!

5:04: Because I'm an adult who is not fixated on what others think of me while I'm commuting.

5:02 wear a belt retard

5:07 - since a belt makes the legs of your pants shorter? the pants stay up at the waist. the problem is length, in case that wasn't obvious by the comment about "heels."

5:04, b/c taking pride in how you look doesn't require worrying what every d-bag on the subway thinks of you.

--not 4:59

I think it is hot has hell when women do shit like this, especially when they rock the flipflops.

5:02: That's why I stick to sneakers. I've ruined many a cuff wearing flip-flops.

5:07 well if you did then maybe someone will be interested in you for a change!

Hear hear, 5:08...

women look stupid who commute in crap like this. If your shoes hurt to walk in, then, gasp!, buy some shoes that are sensible to commute in and work in. Problem solved.

you can be a female attorney and enjoy sweatpants. you can look very professional in the office, and prefer sneakers to even *gasp* flats once you leave.

now i know we all have our opinions on professional wear, but if i can litigate better than you, i'll be damned if you're going to be privileged to look down on me for my high-arch problems while your taking your overpriced, high-heeled wearing, pencil-pushing self to work. i get it. your feet can take more punishment than mine - but they still can't bill more, can they?

and for the record, i wouldn't say flip-flops are so much classier than sneakers anyway.

5:11: You're probably one of those women who think that guys dump you because your manicure isn't perfect rather than because you're insufferable.

5:13 In other words, she kicked your ass in motion practice last weak and your fragile male ego can't handle it.

5:08 well then maybe its time for a new tailor than actually knows how to cuff pants. though i actually have the cuff problem because im a mid-size and only some european companies make that size. but a competent tailor should solve your problem.

I tend to wear what I'll call "placeholder" shoes. They're the same heel height as the cute shoes that I keep at the office, so my pants aren't dragging, but they're 10x more comfortable and walkable because they have sturdy heels or wedges. The placeholder shoes are generally ugly and not the sort of thing you'd want to include in your outfit (unless you were a grandmother), but the beauty of them is that they are black or other dark colors so that, unless someone is really studying your outfit, no one will notice that you're not wearing this season's Manolo. Suggested brands for placeholder shoes: Ecco, Clarks, Born, Sofft, Beautifeel, Taryn Rose, Josef Seibel, Easy Spirit, Aerosoles, etc.

Its easy to talk about, its easy to sum it up when you just talk about shoes. We sittin' in here, I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talkin' about shoes. I mean listen, we talkin bout shoes. Not a game, not a game, not a game. We talkin bout shoes. Not a game, not a, not a, not the game that I go out there and die for, and play every game like its my last. Not the game. We talkin' bout shoes, man. I mean how silly is that? We talkin' bout shoes. I know I'm supposed to be there, I know I'm supposed to lead by example. I know that, and I'm not shovin' it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know its important, I do. I honestly do. But we talkin' bout shoes, man. What are we talkin' bout? Shoes? We talkin' bout shoesman. We talk... We talkin' bout shoes. We talkin' bout shoes. We ain't talkin' bout the game, we talkin' bout shoes, man. When you come into the arena, and you see me play, you see me play, don't you? You see me give everything I got, right? But we talkin' bout shoesright now. We talkin' bout shoes. (crowd laughs) Man look, I hear you, its funny to me too. I mean, its strange, its strange to me too. But we talkin' bout shoesman. We not even talkin' bout the game, the actual game, when it matters. We talkin' bout shoes.

no woman "rocks the flip flops." They look like little high school girls who have no idea about proper decor.

5:11 - Do you consider women who don't wear heels to work and enjoy sweatpants insufferable?

Umm, 5:14, you're totally missing it. If the heels give you 2-4 inches of height, and your pants are hemmed to that length, and you wear shoes that are shorter, your pants will drag on the ground.

It's comment threads like this that keep me coming back to this site day after day.

"5:13 In other words, she kicked your ass in motion practice last weak and your fragile male ego can't handle it."

A quick exercise in reading reveals that he was referring to 5:11(1) and most obviously not 5:11(2). Also, you misspelled "week."

4:44: You're kidding, right? I should always dress in business casual or better on the off chance that a client might see me outside of the office? WTF.

To Tipster/Commenter,

Why don't you try walking in heels all day, especially for blocks to and from work during your daily commute. Not only does it hurt like a mother, but kills your energy level to half of what it normally is.

To the other women---why wear heels anyways? I wear flats (usually naturalizer).

Sure, I like the height heels give, but I don't want to screw up my feet/shins/etc.

And Manolos? Unless you just really like the way they look, there is no reason to wear designer shoes. They shouldn't be considered a requirement.

"but what we don't understand is the running shoes. we don't think they're any more comfortable than sandals or flats"

I think Natalie (of the royal 'we') is clueless to make a comment like this. She probably hasn't worn running shoes or played any kind of sport in a long, long time (if ever). To claim that sandals or flats are as comfortable as running shoes is patently ludicrous.

"but what we don't understand is the running shoes. we don't think they're any more comfortable than sandals or flats"

I think Natalie (of the royal 'we') is clueless to make a comment like this. She probably hasn't worn running shoes or played any kind of sport in a long, long time (if ever). To claim that sandals or flats are as comfortable as running shoes is patently ludicrous.

For the guys out there who can't find work shoes that are comfortable enough for commuting: Cole Haan. They are made by Nike and are by far the most comfortable dress shoes I have ever worn.

I'll wear what I want. Don't worry about my shoes - worry about whether I am going to kick your ass in court. There is no correlation.

Girls who wear heels while commuting to work are pathetic Carrie Bradshaw wannabes. No one cares if you change at work, even old male partners.

And to the douche who claims that "women look stupid who commute in crap like this": You're obviously an idiot who has never had a job that involved commuting, especially commuting using anything as disgusting as the NYC subway.

I'm a man, I leave a pair of "proper" shoes at the office, and if it's raining or winter weather not requiring boots or whatever, I'll wear black running shoes to work. If a woman is concerned about how it looks wearing running shoes to work, why can't she buy solid black (or brown, or whatever) running shoes instead of white, at least except for up close it won't be so obvious.

Sorry 5:19. Itchy trigger finger.

5:22: Thank you - you are absolutely right. If you have any kind of a walk to work - especially when the weather is cold, sneakers are more durable, more comfortable, and just better for your feet and ankles. I may just be getting old, but I find a marked difference.

i think the placeholder shoes idea is the best yet. i wear flats but i've struggled with the pants-dragging-on-the-ground problem. though now that i'm pregnant i mostly wear my pants hemmed for short heels/flats anyway.

I'm definitely a Miranda (w/o the red hair)...never want to be a Samantha (she is too focus'd on s*x)..Charlotte is way to girly for me...and Carrie, well, i just dont understand her!

On shoes - judgment call carries the day...but there is no point upsetting a rainmaking partner simply because you can't change shoes while ordering your cup of coffee/tea.

God, I love California. Hop out of convertible into office. Can wear almost whatever the hell I want.

Enjoy NY and all that "prestige," I'll enjoy my life and earning the same salary.

First, in NY, women wear sneakers all the time with dress clothes. Its not that unusual, though flats would look better. But seriously, if you think its odd, you obviously arent from NY.

Guys get less of a pass since A) there is such a thing as comfortable, nice looking shoes for guys B) no mans dress shoe is ANYWHERE near as uncomfotable as a nice set of heels.

And seriously, the only people I knew that gave a crap about what they looked like when they ENTERED the building (before work started and before they were anywhere near clients or external counsel) were people from TTT law schools. Seriously, the more they cared about their appearance, the crappier their school.

I dont even like being elitist, but seriously, I had georgetown people telling me their career counselors were telling them to buy 1000 dollar suits for interviews. Heck, if you are having so much trouble getting a job, you worry about what you wear that much (you can get certainly acceptable fitted suits for around 400), then your attire is the least of your worries.

Just have good attire to wear while you are AT work. Maybe at the Jones Days of the world, you could get a bad review for coming by the office or leaving the office in gym clothes early in the morning or late in the day (you do want yoru associates to live a long time, right?), but really, dont worry about the 2 or 3 partners who have stupid pet peeves.

Dress respectful for work, always look good for clients, work hard. ANything you do the 15 minutes you come into work or 15 as you leave are irrelevant.

Anyone watch Baldwin Hills?

Congrats, 5:27 (2), did you always aspire to be a cookie-cutter?

What about commuter shoes for men? I'm constantly wearing holes in my dress shoes because I wear them all day, including the walk to/from the train; my shoes generally don't last more than 2-3 months before I have holes in the soles, and then I'll suffer through maybe 1-2 more months of my big toe scraping the sidewalk with every step and my feet getting wet every time it rains before I break down and buy a new pair. But I never see men wearing commuter shoes. What's up with that?

5:33---Have you considered getting them resoled? Or getting advice from the guys on more durable shoes?

5:29: I hear you regarding the law school-based insecurity. I went to a local NYC law school and they absolutely would've advised somebody to not walk into the building with commuter shoes in lest they offend some 90-year-old partner with Alzheimer's.

French cuffs only confirm that a man has no idea what proper "business" dress is. Barrel cuffs, button down collars, white or blue shirt, and a 2 button suit. All the fancy cuffs, collars, colors, and suiting are fine for evening wear, but they have no place in the office.

I'll also add that the most poorly-dressed summer associates at my office are invariably from top-ranked schools. There's a fine line between comfortable and entitled, kids.

Would this problem exist if women weren't hell-bent on being taller than they actually are?

5:35-- I had one pair resoled but they charged me almost as much as a new pair of shoes would have cost (concededly at DSW), and put big thick rubber soles on my wingtips that looked stupid. Feel free to share advice on strong-soled shoes, though.

It's a resoundingly negative reflection on the firm that actually cares whether women wear "commuter shoes" as they enter the building in the morning and sit down at their desk.

5:33: Get better shoes. Rotate them. Subscribe to Esquire and GQ so your mongrel ass doesn't need to be told these things on a fucking law blog!

5:38 -- a good cobbler will ask what type of sole you want. If these are "good" dress shoes, the choice will be leather. There is no reason the new soles should last only a couple of months. For starters, you should not be wearing the same pair of shoes every day. This is not for appearance, but to give the shoe proper time to air out. But again, we're talking good shoes here, not DSW (maybe Nordstrom Rack, but not DSW).

5:27, did you really just censor your own use of the word sex? I'll give you a hint: it's not a bad word.

Guys, the only shoes to wear are Allen-Edmonds. Plain, black, cap toe (Park Avenue model) with grey suits--only acceptable option. $220 or so at the outlet, $325ish retail. Worth every penny. Dark brown if you want with navy suits. Get one with some brouging if you want, but it's less formal.

Aldens are great shoes, too, but much harder to find if you're not in Boston, NY, SF, etc. and they're twice as much.

Skip J&M--used to be solid, Amercian shoes, but now they're mass-produced crap you can find in any mall.

The English makers are fine, but not worth the huge jump in price in my opinion (though you can order them from Malaysia and save a few bucks).

Leave your square-toed, grain-corrected Kenneth Coles back in high school.

Following up on 5:39's advice, I would also recommend learning how to walk right and not being a fat ass.

Love Cole Haans, 5:22. Personally, I don't do the sneakers or any other non-work clothes attire when going to and from work on a weekday. Just doesn't feel right, I guess. I certainly don't care what other people do, especially girls, because I am sure those heels can be a pain.

5:41: DSW carries perfectly good shoes, just at a discount. I've bought Cole Haan, Joan and David, etc. at DSW.

5.41 - as a matter of fact, i do, eliminates guesswork. f'ing retard

"Enjoy NY and all that "prestige," I'll enjoy my life and earning the same salary."

Bitter, party of one!

>

Seriously, people from top law schools never learned how to dress and are usually ugly. This is such a testament to the attitude of post-baby boom privileged white suburban kids.

5:36 - you're from the Midwest, right?

There's nothing wrong with well-fitted French cuffs (not those huge things you'll find at Express) with taseful links or silk knots. Spend $100 (or more if you'd like, but HK makers can give you good fabric for $100), get your shirt made to fit (why do people stress about suits and yet wear sails for shirts?), and you can get spread collar, French cuffs, barrel cuffs with 2-buttons, button-down collars--whatever you want that's classic--and you'll be fine.

5:46 -- let's get this straight: you ask ridiculous questions about shoes on ATL, some people ridicule you and others offer legit advice; yet, your temper must be as bad as your walk, because you cannot distinguish between advice and ridicule. Have fun witih those crappy shoes, messed up walk, and rubber soles, sport.

5:36 -- two button? HELL no, not on me. Three button or nothing.

5:48 - Um...quite the opposite. I'm just fine, thanks. How's the weather? Beautiful day in the Bay Area, as always.

5:16(2) -- outstanding. you, sir, are a baller.

5:36 has to be a joke or a non-client interacting aTTTorney.

5:50--

I'm not sure what 5:46 was talking about, or if perhaps his comment was directed at 5:41(2) (it doesn't make a lot of sense in response to either), but I posted the shoe question at 5:33 and did not write 5:46.

Though I would add that my initial question was hardly "ridiculous."

I wear sneakers in winter. I do it because even in flats my feet start to hurt after standing in the subway for 30+ minutes.... but they feel fine in sneakers. I also have one of the closest offices to the elevator bank, so I rarely see anyone before I enter my office.

I wear sneakers in winter. I do it because even in flats my feet start to hurt after standing in the subway for 30+ minutes.... but they feel fine in sneakers. I also have one of the closest offices to the elevator bank, so I rarely see anyone before I enter my office.

LOLZ OMG 5:27 said SEX!

5:53 - BS. Bay Area ain't that nice, pal. It's cold as hell in the summer, and the weather is shit. I like San Fran, no way in hell is it better than NY with all the weirdos and hills. Not to mention that rent is just as high as NY.

New Topic: what is the proper footwear when jetting the office at 6 pm?

SLOW NEWS DAY!

In other news, an Alabama TTT is considering merging with an Arkansas TTT...

Jesus Christ, how about some news about white guys with asian girls?

- King of WGWAG

commuting = TTT

Ferragamo, Barrett, Hermes, and Dior are the only shoes that should grace a real man's foot.

I see no excuse for men to ever wear commuter shoes as men's dress shoes are pretty comfy. But I do, every day. WTF to that.

Also, double WTF to wearing a baseball hat with a suit.

5:58 - Bay Area is more than just SF. The Valley (where I'd guess 3/5 of the BigLaw attorneys in the Bay Area work) definitely isn't cold.

Yes, there are weirdos and hills--both add to the charm. Rent in SF is ridiculous (though not bad on the Peninsula, though I won't live there until I have kids, if even then), but I guess that means people want to live here.

I far prefer SF to NY (though NY would be my second choice). Let's rag on the real loser cities, like Atlanta and fill-in-the-blank, Texas. Why the hell does anyone (in their 20's or early 30's) move to those places?

To each his own (w/r/t NY and SF). (And Go Yanks!)

6:03 - Yes, if you're a GQ model and/or trend-whore. Some of us seek to dress professionally while at work.

I made the comment about the top law school people being ugly and not knowing how to dress. It was a stupid comment and I apologize for it. That 10th step is a doozy, kids.

Actually, 5:36 is a native of Los Angeles who has spent significant time living and working in DC and Chicago. Has worked with two AmLaw 100 firms, though neither is Skadden or its ilk so most on this board will regard as TTT.

I suspect I'm older than most of the posters on this message board, and I'm quite certain that I'm better schooled in the art of dressing like a gentleman. I've never been accused of being fashionable, but I've also never been accused of being attired in a way that was anything short of pleasing to my clients.

As for the fellow who swears by Allen Edmonds shoes, I have one word for you Alden (cordovan long wing blucher).

6:05 = closet Ohio native

6:10 - Wisconsin, but thanks.

Women don't really care what you think about our "CS." The day men start to wear high heels is the day when you can start commenting on the topic. At least there is a legit purpose for the unfashionable attire. A better question is - why do men wear black and navy? it's a shame.

6:05 - agreed. If not NY, it'd be a toss-up for me b/w SF and Southern Cali. I am not a huge fan of the general vibe, but it's hard to argue with nice weather year round and the ocean.

I don't think it is about wearing heels all the way to work or that there is a problem with "commuter shoes", but is it that difficult to match them to your outfit? If you don't want to wear heels then don't, but it doesn't mean that all sense of fashion and color coordination has to go in the bag with the work shoes.

6:10 - I mentioned Alden, but still prefer having 2 pairs of AEs for the same price. If I make partner/GC dollars at some point, I will wear Alden.

- 5:42

If your shoes are so uncomfortable that you can't even wear them on the way to work, maybe you should look into getting new shoes.

6:09 = guy on my floor in the worn out Allen Edmonds and off-the-rack suit.

-6:03

p.s. Please wash your hands after you use the restroom. The way you dress is why no one invites you to lunch. The fecal-matter fingers are why we won't even shake your hand.

Who cares? I bike a short distance to work and come in every day in shorts. I then close and lock the door to my office and put on a suit (I store several in my office). Nobody at my firm seems bothered by this. However, I can't speak for the people at the office across the street, who routinely see me parading around in my undies.

Ferragamo? $900 for shoes? For a man? For work? No way, Jose! I might spend $600 on some Louis Vutton loafers, but that's coz they're a classic, and they might help me pick up chicks. Dude, lay off the dope.

@ 6:10/5:36 Your statement does clarify your position of being ultra-conservative in appearance. I respectfully disagree that french cuffs don't fit into proper business attire, and that white/blue shirts and 2 button suits are the only way to go. Then again, I'm a young buck in NYC, so my experience is rather limited, but for me personally I'd never be caught dead in a 2 button suit, and like to change up from the basic blue/white shirt rotation.

-5:54

@ 6:10/5:36 Your statement does clarify your position of being ultra-conservative in appearance. I respectfully disagree that french cuffs don't fit into proper business attire, and that white/blue shirts and 2 button suits are the only way to go. Then again, I'm a young buck in NYC, so my experience is rather limited, but for me personally I'd never be caught dead in a 2 button suit, and like to change up from the basic blue/white shirt rotation.

-5:54

@ 6:24, you can get Ferragamos for under $700.

-5:54

6:20: No, 6:09 = Not-worn-out Allen Edmonds and HK-tailored shirt and suit. Ties from HK, Off Fifth, Barneys, Nordstrom, or NM Last Call (and a few Hermes I paid full price for because I like the particular animal). Would like to not have to do the HK thing, but mid-level salary only goes so far.

(Though I appreciate the broadcast of the "wash your damn hands" memo--people here have no problem poopin' and heading straight out the door, dragging the purchase agreement that's likely to end up on my desk later that day.)

I'm pretty sure that only white trash and the diseased take public transportation. How tacky.

5:58 - If you're in SF proper, I generally agree with you. But if you're in the valley (which is where most of corporate types are), the weather is amazing. Today it's a lovely 74 degrees with a slight offshore breeze. The only bad thing is that the days are so beautiful, it sucks to be inside. And if you're one of the particularly lucky few that land a job with one of the NYC firms out here, you're enjoying the great weather, likely living in SF (though the commute sucks) and being paid on the NYC scale (special bonuses and everything). Can't beat that.

To 5:37(2) - Are you a 5'6" dude? The extra height is nice, but there are a lot more advantages to heels. Sculpts the calves, pushes out the boobs and butt, flattens the belly and puts a great sway into the hips when you walk. They pretty much accentuate all the key features of the female form (physically speaking). And because you're taller, you also look slimmer, which almost all women prefer. Lastly, a good pair of tasteful stilettos makes a statement. I'd never walk into an all-hands meeting not in a skirt and a great pair of heels. When I'm one of only a few women (or sometimes the only) in the room, I'm going to be noticed regardles. I might as well use the double standard to my advantage when opportunities present themselves. I'm not saying I don't tire of the balancing act, but bitching about it and wearing ugly shoes isn't going to change the nature of the game, not in M&A anyway.

Some of you are retarded. Buy good shoes - two pairs. Never wear the same pair of shoes on consecutive days.

It's not that fucking hard.

If you mongoloids keeping buying your shoes from JC Penny's, and continue walking hunched over while eating a cream-cheese-laden bagel, your shoes are going to wear out quickly.

Then again, shoe selection will be the least of your heart-attack-is-forthcoming-and-ED-is-already-here lives!

So, with all this talk about shoes, what about socks? Or even better, undergarments? I mean, seriously, it's 90+ in Chicago and I can't help but go commando under my pants and sport the nifty pima cotton polo shirt, otherwise, my swamp ass reaches epic proportions by the time I get to work (admittedly, I could get here before 9 and beat the heat . . .)

I never go commando in dress pants/suits/anything that has to be dry cleaned. Too expensive and too bad for the clothes to clean them as frequently as such a practice would require.

6:32 - Will you marry me? Is there a chance we're passing on 280 every morning?

6:03: "Ferragamo, Barrett, Hermes, and Dior are the only shoes that should grace a real man's foot."

Yeah, if you want to wrap a silk tie around your feet. Their shoes, however, are ridiculous and inappropriate for lawyers.

6:32 - I like the way you think. Can't argue with the good weather, especially as a surfer. If I had any reason to move out there, I wouldn't hesitate. Although, California is looking to have the highest taxes in the land...

-5:58

6:39 - Could be. You aren't one of those irritating Prius drivers going 65 in the fast lane, are you? Man, do I want to put a fork through the foreheads of those asshats.

6:46 - Certainly not driving a Prius (nor would I be driving behind one). Not driving a 3-series or A4, either. I think I just narrowed the field by 90% for you.

- 6:39

6:39 - I'm not worried about what you're driving, so long as you're not going 65 in the fast lane. That particular sin seems to be more common among Prius drivers. I salute their eco-friendly contribution, just don't create more traffic by refusing to yield to faster drivers. There are 3 or 4 other lanes for such folks to driver like my grandma.

- 6:32/6:46

6:32/6:46 - Agreed.

If everything goes well, could you do your part to get us onto LEWW?

6:12(1) I would ask you to marry me but I'm already married, and also living in a state that doesn't allow gay marriage, so I'll refrain. Instead, I will gladly co-sign your post.

None of this is an issue at Cravath. If you are Cravath material, you know how to dress.

7:34 - Know how to dress? Yes. Know how to play nice with others? Generally, no.

"French cuff shirts sans suit and tie is f'ing guido."

correct

Guidos = TTT.

UVA = God.

6:32(3): "Buy good shoes - two pairs. Never wear the same pair of shoes on consecutive days." What is this supposed to accomplish? You'll just end up buying two pairs of shoes simultaneously, only half as often.

7:34: No, Covington partners know how to dress.

All I know is hedge fund managers who take spin classes in NYC know how to dress.

5:36--

No shit you're older. Blue and white shirts only? 2 button suits? BARREL CUFFS exclusively?!?

When were you born? 1965? Do you wear horn-rimmed glasses? Are you still pissed about integration? Do you want your slaves back?

When you work your way out of H & R Block you can join the real world. douche.

6:03: kill self.

Whenever I see someone in a three button suit, I'm tempted to ask them how their eToys stock is doing. Seriously, try to catch up the century the rest of us are living in.

French cuffs: massively guido / toolish if not wearing suit and tie. Even with suit, lower key is better (not Mozilo style).

Button down collar: what are you a professor? Straight or spread collar. Whoever recommended this likely lives in Boston, wears bow ties and collects hats.

Ferragamo shoes: HAHAHAHAHA. (1) You are not that rich, (2) I can just picture you in your french cuffs with your absurdly garish italian pointy loafers. Do you also slick your hair back and wair a gold chain and a bracelet?

Oh, I almost forgot about the 3 button suit. I say go to 5 buttons and complete the Dion Sanders look

most women could also use panty hose. Most women cannot pull off the no hose look...ICK.

8:07 PM: That's not how it works. When you don't wear the same shoes each day, they last longer than twice as long.

How buttons should a suit have? What would a Cravath associate wear?

What would Reagan wear?

-Fed Soc

Hey, Halberstam!

Why the f*ck are we always judging women like this?

Lat, you're a douchebag.

Women in the work place = TTT.

9:17 = lesbian

I wear flip flops to work all the time. Managing partner doesn't care. Only requirement is that my feet have to be nice and soft... oh and the toes have to be painted.
I'll take it!

Ummm...I don't know who all of these heel-hating women are. I am tall, with great legs, and when I lived in NYC, I thoroughly enjoying feeling and looking fabulous while walking to work in high heels.

FYI, your achilles will adjust. And if your heels are that uncomfortable, spring for ones with better sizing or better materials.

Comfortable heels exist, make you look like a babe and remind you that you are WOMAN (construction catcalls be damned)!

5:33 = cheap ass. If you bought a ncie pair of shoes then they would last longer then 2-3 months. Am I missing something?

Buying shoes at Kohls, etc = TTT

I'd like to add that this very topic was recently covered at length on www.corporette.com, an excellent blog for women who work in white-shoe industries like banking and law.

9:31 is likely a gay dude but has the right idea nonetheless.

Cravath would never allow ugly women to wear sneakers to work.

9:31 is the previously mentioned tranny paralegal.

It is more important to be comfortable than cute. As IT people we have to run the the evil partners desk because he has a paper jam and then over the office administrator who is sitting on his ass patting his foot waiting for help. Wearing comfortable shoes gets the job done. NOW ALL YOU FREAKIN PARTNERS WHAT DO YOU WANT PRETTY FEET OR YOUR PRINTER WORKING SO YOU CAN LIE TO YOUR CLIENT.

It is more important to be comfortable than cute. As IT people we have to run the the evil partners desk because he has a paper jam and then over the office administrator who is sitting on his ass patting his foot waiting for help. Wearing comfortable shoes gets the job done. NOW ALL YOU FREAKIN PARTNERS WHAT DO YOU WANT PRETTY FEET OR YOUR PRINTER WORKING SO YOU CAN LIE TO YOUR CLIENT.

Gay dudes in step classes should be bashed all the time. Its what people do.

Pillsbury layoffs to be announced on the wire.

LAT IS A DOUCHEBAG LAT IS A DOUCHEBAG LAT IS A DOUCHEBAG

STOP SCRUTINIZING WOMEN STOP SCRUTINIZING WOMEN STOP SCRUTINIZING WOMEN

LAT IS A DOUCHEBAG

10:11 your caps lock is stuck.

Also, you are a jackass. This website isn't "scrutinizing" anybody. You are scrutinizing it.

i love it when women wear thongs, and i don't mind the flip flops either

Just don't wear obvious commuter shoes when sneaking into work late.

There are some great slip-on shoes that are cut like a ballet flat but are virtually a soft sneaker. Cole Hahn in the expensive version. Check out Privo (cheap line of Clarks) for disposable commuter shoes. These are also PERFECT for getting through airport security or sloshing through gross subway puddles. I buy black for maximum use, dirt-hiding, and subtlety.
http://privo.zappos.com/n/p/dp/34350372/c/80.html

After 9/11 and the NYC blackout, it's only sensible to wear commuting shoes you could walk miles in if you had to.

Yes, there are tons of Privo designs that are perfect for commuting!
http://privo.zappos.com/n/es/d/722277698/page/1.html

Good God, I love a good post about shoes.

For women who wear pants, the only good option is a pair of wedges. They're comfy, and you can have appropriately hemmed pants. Leave the sneakers for those commuting via bridge or tunnel, please. If you want flats, wear them. A one inch wedge will lift your heel in the same manner as a sneaker, and will offer the same support. If you drive to work, you have no excuse for not wearing the four inch stilettos. Don't you know that high heeled shoes mean you are a better lawyer? I figured that out ten years ago. Ugly shoes are for those who sit in their offices engaging in motions practice for 20 hours a day, not for court, not for taking clients to dinner, and not for finance lawyers.

Men, go with Allen Edmonds. Pay the $325 a pair, and you can have them completely refurbished for $90 - for life. There are two cap toe styles to choose from, one more rounded and one more pointy. And if you're as old as the stodge who complained, leading to this ATL "article," there are some maroon colored wingtips that should suit you and your button up Mr. Rogers sweater you wear in the office.

I can't believe someone actually said French cuffs are guido. Umm, wrong country, douche. You are probably one of those ex-frat types with the ill-fitting Men's Warehouse suit (or Brooks Brothers, either way, yawn) and the baggy dress shirt that isn't properly tucked in, who thinks just because you are in a suit, you look good. You don't. Oh, and if you are a summer or first year with a pair of expensive cuff links, wear the hell out of them. Tell whoever asks that they're a gift from your wife or girlfriend. Never admit your mom got them for you, or that you bought what amounts to jewelry for yourself.

Oh, and always wear thongs. Pantylines are career limiting.

In NY, WTF is with all the flip flops? And yes, why does it seem that its mostly younger, caucasian women wearing the flip flops (older females typically wear sandals or shoes).

I once saw a young Flop Flopper walking up the stairs from the subway. Somone must have accidentally stepped on the rear of her Flip Flops, and the girl took a nasty dive and cracked her face on the steps. Coffee everywhere, it was a total mess. But I did have to laugh.

And while on the train, do we all need to see your natsy ass hammertoes?

I hate fucking Flip Floppers.

"And yes, why does it seem that its mostly younger, caucasian women wearing the flip flops?"

This is because younger women have nice feet and older women have hideous crone feet. Black women have ashy, oversized feet, so no flip flops for them.

The "trend" of women (and men) wearing sneakers during their commute and changing into dress shoes at work began during the 1980 NYC transit strike, when thousands of New Yorkers walked to work. It has been acceptable ever since, and should be a common sight for anyone who has worked in an office building in NYC over the past 30 years.

Any guy that spends more than $90 on a pair of shoes is a sucker. Like buying $300 jeans. Nobody cares.

LOL @ 12:19am

9:31 pm: "FYI, your achilles will adjust." You do know that this "adjustment," as you call it, is actually damage (compression and sometimes permanent shortening of the tendon) and eventually can lead to tendinitis in women who constantly wear high heels, don't you?

Can references to "three inch stilettos" please be left out of a discussion of appropriate BigLaw footwear? Perhaps male posters are unaware of the actual definition of a "stiletto," but I can assure you that only in rare circumstances (see, e.g., Calvin Klein or Coach pumps (closed toe, and good heavens not patent leather)) are "stilettos" anything other than way too provacative for the office.

If gentlemen are serious about nit picking over fashion, let's talk about loafers that are too narrow for your swollen feet, ties that are too short, obnoxious patterns on your oxford shirts, and good lord, the Vinyard Vines pastels are a joke. Oh, and body odor. Adjusting yourselves in public. I could go on. Leave us to our flip flops and get over it.

brown shoes should never be worn at work. polished black shoes (ideally, A&E cap toes) should be worn with navy suits. you can get away with cordovan, but it is not preferred.

button collors should never be worn with a suit.

french cuffs, spread collars, tie clips, suspenders, etc. make it look like you're trying too hard.

and learn how to tie a reasonably sized windsor or half-windsor knot for god's sake... and forget this four-in-hand crap... what are you a democrat?

9:31: I feel sorry for you because you have such a low opinion of yourself.

"Let's get some shoes."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE_v1HbPe18

8:47 - good point on the button down collars.

5:36 = Harvard Law Avenger? Hats, button downs, and bow ties.

Men: here is the deal if you work in DC or New York or any where else where you're going to walk for more than 10 minutes. If you are ever seen by other male attorneys walking in business casual with tennis shoes on, you are going to drop in their esteem. Period. If you don't care you don't care. Nobody is concerned about your foot comfort. Just like nobody is concerned about your termperature comfort when you walk to work in DC in 97 degrees - if you walked into the office in shorts with a garmet bag, you would look like an idiot. Get over. Generations of men wore hot uncomfortable clothes for the 20 minutes of their daily commute.

Buy two pairs of $400 shoes: black and brown. You will never worry about footwear again.

damn, what a bunch of chicks.

Wearing running shoes to the office is still a fashion faux pas but given the benefit to your feet, it's probably worth it. By the way, if enough people start to wear them it stops being a faux pas so I hope more people - men and women - start to wear commuting sneakers!

I put comfort first above all else, but it is beyond me why people think this sneakers-and-socks-over-your- pantyhose thing is OK. it's really, really not.

11:27 has the right idea -- comfortable black commuter flats will do your feet right and not make you look like a clueless suburban housewife.

jeez, I'm TTTT and I could figure this out.

I put comfort first above all else, but it is beyond me why people think this sneakers-and-socks-over-your- pantyhose thing is OK. it's really, really not.

11:27 has the right idea -- comfortable black commuter flats will do your feet right and not make you look like a clueless suburban housewife.

jeez, I'm TTTT and I could figure this out.

8:52, I wish you well in your career as a moderately successful DUI defense attorney.

$200-$400 shoes? GQ and Esqwuire subscriptions? What fantasy world are you people living in! What's next, a thread about $10,000 watches? I know a lot of people in law school are trust fund babies, but if you want to be Derek Zoolander you should have gone to fashion school, not law school. Please join the real world.

For slip ons, just bought a pair of AE Melrose. A more contemporary look for AE, but a beautiful shoe. Like my other 3 pair of AE, have taken a bit to break in, as I only "rock" them once a week. I wear a different pair of shoes everyday and my feet are the better for it. AE's are great, although they seem to wear out somewhat quickly - - I've had 2 pair completely refurbished for $90 each.

10:44: you are an attorney or studying to be one. There is a certain uniform that you are expected (by clients and other members of your firm) to wear. Call it inflation or whatever else you want, but nice shoes cost $300. You can go higher or lower, but members of your profession (in NYC or DC) wear roughly $300 shoes. It's not a big deal. They will last for a long time, and you don't need 5 pairs. Just a couple. It's okay. You can afford it.

You can get "associate-appropriate" shoes, like Cole Haans, for $200. "Nice" shoes really do run at $300 and above... They are also substantially less comfortable than Coles.

Cuff links without a suit and tie are guido. Period.

Speaking of guidos:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/errol_brownpants/guido12.jpg

10:44: It's the land of the unmarried and child-free. Unless you're independently wealthy, have no student debt, or live in an inexpensive part of the country, even BIGLAW salaries don't support this kind of spending on clothes.

What about a button-collar shirt with tie and vest?

complete horseshit. i've done biglaw and now i'm at one of those "clients". I can say we don't give a flying f about the shoes of our external counsel. $300 mens shoes are overpriced (probably due to the rise in female shoe prices). if you think you're expected to wear $200-300 shoes, you're watching too much tv.

"10:44: you are an attorney or studying to be one. There is a certain uniform that you are expected (by clients and other members of your firm) to wear. Call it inflation or whatever else you want, but nice shoes cost $300. You can go higher or lower, but members of your profession (in NYC or DC) wear roughly $300 shoes. It's not a big deal. They will last for a long time, and you don't need 5 pairs. Just a couple. It's okay. You can afford it."

bottom line is get the good stuff even if costs lots more as cheap is expensive. buy a pair of ferragamo, bally,etc and they will last a long time. this goes for everything clothes shoes etc.

$300 on quality dress shoes is not "this kind of spending" IMHO. It's not like buying $300 jeans that fit like your girlfriend's and are made for guys with no unit. As to other clothing, I would never pay more than 60% of retail. My advice to students is that if you have $500 for an interview outfit, spend $300 on shoes and go to Filene's basement, TJ Maxx, or Jos Bank sale and get a suit, shirt, and tie for $200. Do I sound gay?

"You can go higher or lower, but members of your profession (in NYC or DC) wear roughly $300 shoes. It's not a big deal."

I know -all those DAs with $300 shoes.

I'm not gonna read all those comments. But we can end on part of this discussion once and for all:

MEN wearing sneakers with business casual clothes or a suit is never acceptable. There's no reason why you can't find acceptable, comfortable shoes at a very reasonable price. End of story.

11:22 sort of has the right idea. if your in ny its quite easy as there are many dept stores, and other places as well, where you get good stuff at affordable prices. you do not need $300 shoes (though i happen to have a few and they are worth the money for looks and longevity), you can get for cheaper. if you want to really look good, however, you need to know how to dress. just getting things that have good names will not do the trick, if you know what i mean.
now 11:22 who sounds gay

And $300 on shoes is absolutely not necessary. You can get very nice, appropriate, comfortable shoes for $100 or even less, especially if you know how to scope out a sale or work some of the online shoe sites.

- 11:27 AM.

11:32: I agree. Spending hundreds of dollars on shoes is for either the rich or the resourceless. My most expensive shoes are my running shoes.

Please never change out of your commuter shoes outside of the privacy of your office. No one wants to see your feet.

I guess it depends on what one thinks is nice. Appropriate, sure. But a pair of $100 men's dress shoes will probbaly wear out in 6 mos. if you wear them a few times per week, if you commute by walking or public trans. A few years back I bought a $155 pair of Cole-Haan split toes for $100. They were quite uncomfortable, altho they were well made and looked OK. AE's are uncomfortable for a month or so, and then at some point get really comfortable. Alden and Santoni also make some great shoes, altho alot of $$, esp in light of the weak dollar.

You're not fooling anybody with $100 dress shoes.
Obviously your performance is the most important factor here and most won't care. But to the extent that this is advice for the unsure and insecure, those souls will have all of their bases covered with two pairs of nice $200-300 shoes, four trim $300-500 suits, and five fitted dress shirts (the slim fit Brook's Brother's synthetic blend shirts are about a $100 and they never need ironing and they come in law firm appropriate colors and patterns). That's a wardrobe for less than a paycheck. Not a big deal, people. You will still be able to feed your kids.

DAs are not BIGLAW, so I'm sure different rules can apply.

You're not fooling anybody with $100 dress shoes.
Obviously your performance is the most important factor here and most won't care. But to the extent that this is advice for the unsure and insecure, those souls will have all of their bases covered with two pairs of nice $200-300 shoes, four trim $300-500 suits, and five fitted dress shirts (the slim fit Brook's Brother's synthetic blend shirts are about a $100 and they never need ironing and they come in law firm appropriate colors and patterns). That's a wardrobe for less than a paycheck. Not a big deal, people. You will still be able to feed your kids.

DAs are not BIGLAW, so I'm sure different rules can apply.

The fact that these comments split nearly down the middle suggests that about half of the lawyers who you work with think that you should buy nicer shoes. Those lawyers who think $100 shoes are okay, probably can't tell if your shoes cost $300. So this is easy: buy the $300 shoes and you'll never have to worry about whether you look appropriate to a given attorney. If you can't muster an additional $200 for a, at a minimum, three year purchase, you're reading the wrong blog.

How expensive are the shoes? It depends on how long you wear them.

Could someone please tell me if I can fool people with $100 dress shoes?

My bad, Alden shoes are made in the USA

11:44: My mistake. When somebody wrote "our profession", I presumed they meant all lawyers, not 1% of practicing lawyers. Sorry about that.

Since when does Brooks Brothers make a slim fit? I've always known them to have that hideous overly baggy American cut on everything. Give me a good Savile Row maker any day.

Go wild:

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=205

Guys in my high school fooled people with $100 dress shoes. It was no big deal.

11:56 you are correct. broks bros try to give an english look but they are not the slim european fit that is associated with italian, french designs. i am familiar with the fashion industry and this is 100% accurate. slim fit look, which is the way to go in formal wear, is armani, brioni etc. if your lucky enough to afford and want to put your money towards clothing.

that being said, at least until a couple of years ago wachtell made their associates buy at brooks bros. i may be wrong about that but i think i remember an ex-associate telling me such.

You people have a lot of free time.

Says the man reading and interpreting the comments.

12:07/12:08 yes yes yes

"to the extent that this is advice for the unsure and insecure"

Bingo.

No need to try to "fool anyone" about anything. Just make sure it's decent fabric/material and fits well. Lawyers who are overly preened, in my view, look silly and telegraph a lot about their shortcomings.

200+ comments?! Come on people... get real. In Seattle partners are happy that associates come in with a collared shirt and any type of shoe. Most times they show up with a tie-dye t-shirt and no shoes. I won't even start with the grooming habits.

The Pac NW is different - - with that much rain, its hard to wear clothes on a daily basis that need dry cleaning.

Can I ask NY'ers where in their tiny shithole apartments do they have space to keep all their $300 shoes and brioni suits?

5:16 - awesome

I wear 3-4 inch heels every day (in Boston, on public transportation, 15 minute walk on both ends) and refuse to complain because they are so sexy and feminine in an empowering way.

Flats on women are OK if you must, but get a decent looking pair and then buy these for the pant problem: www.zakkerz.com

On men, Commuter Shoes are never OK. I cringe when I see men changing from dress shoes to tennis shoes for the commute. What's the POINT!?

Who the hell cares what is on someone's feet when they are not in the office. Those who don't like to see the tennis shoes or flip flops - simple - don't look. Personally - I would love to go through one day without my feet screaming because I have to wear shoes designed by a sadist. Since I don't like pain I wear the tennis shoes, flip flops and gasp... even Crocs - BTW there are office apprpriate Crocs available - just look at their web site.

all of these Saville Row Ferragamo posers are hilarious. 9 times out of 10 when you see an associate wearing fitted shirts with raging bull cufflinks, a shiny suit, ridiculously pointy Italian shoes and a TAG watch (i.e., the douchebag uniform), you conclude that this guy is either (A) not smart enough to realize that he is not rich or (B) has a trust fund, which means that he probably lacks the motivation to last long in this job.

I don't need to wear comfortable shoes... I get my 1st associates to carry me where I need to go.

1:37: In BOSTON?! Talk about wasting your efforts. I can assure you that everybody on the subway thinks you're a prostitute.

By the by, Cole Haan is having a great sale right now! Extra 20% (Enter "JULYSALE" at checkout)!

"I wear 3-4 inch heels every day (in Boston, on public transportation, 15 minute walk on both ends) and refuse to complain because they are so sexy and feminine in an empowering way."

What 2;15 said.

Button down collars are less formal than point or spread collars, and should never be worn with a suit. With blazers or sport coats and slacks, sure. But never with a suit.

And tassel loafers should never, ever be worn with a business suit. Again, with slacks and a blazer or sport coat, no problem; just not with a suit. This is one of the more egregious style offenses I see in NYC.

And while Allen Edmonds makes a nice shoe, check out A.Testoni. Particularly their loafers.

-Patrick Bateman

1990 called. It wants its tassels back. Actually, these things are really better described as dingleberries.

Do most people understand that slip-on shoes for men are supposed to be casual? That is why they are called loafers. I see guys wearing these all the time with suits.

11:54- and that half of attorneys who think you should buy expensive shoes are overwhelmingly gunner 23-yo 1st years who you don't need to impress anyway.

whose opinion do you really value? the overcompensating 1st year, or the partner who thinks that guy is trying too hard?

Agreed, 3:30, with your second proposition. Drivers, i.e. leather/suede loafers with rubber bottoms, are casual and are not even appropriate for business casual. Even if they are Ferregamo. Leather-soled dress loafers, while more formal, are still not appropriately worn with suits, although again, they work with business casual attire, i.e. slacks and blazers or sport coats.

However, I disagree with your first proposition. While tassel loafers were certainly out of fashion for ten or fifteen years, they are making a comeback, with brands such as Allen Edmonds offering modernized versions.

-Patrick Bateman

Fictional characters always have the best insight and advice on fashion.

when you are running down the street, dashing to file your emergency injunction before the court closes, with your Hermes tie flapping over your sloped shoulder and your tasseled Ferragamo tassels slapping against your dainty feet, you know you have arrived and must be respected by all.

Precisely, 3:44. And if you read the books and watch the movies in which I star, then you too can master the art that is men's fashion.

Another pearl of sartorial wisdom: Pocket squares should not match the tie, but should complement it. For example, a gold tie with a subtle blue pattern is best paired with a pocket square in a similar, but not identical, shade of blue.

(-Patrick Bateman)

Aside from commuter sneakers... what do you folks think about women who use a rolling "airport" bag as their everyday "work bag"? A lot of female associates in my office use them, and I find myself wondeing, "am I the only one who thinks they look really stupid?"

Aside from commuter sneakers... what do you folks think about women who use a rolling "airport" bag as their everyday "work bag"? A lot of female associates in my office use them, and I find myself wondeing, "am I the only one who thinks they look really stupid?"

speaking of rolling things...what about those skate shoes -- the ones with rollers in the heels? can i get them in adult sizes? it will help me get back and forth between partners' offices a lot faster. are they acceptable if i stich a ferragamo label on them?

5:22 - No, nothing with a "Ferragamo" label is acceptable. There seems to be a consensus on this thread (though maybe it's what I want to see) that an "Allen Edmonds" label (and corresponding quality and timeless style...for some models), or Alden if you're feeling a little rich, would make those skate shoes okay.

Dood I go into work in jeans/t-shirt/sneakers, then put on dress clothes there. I'm comfortable on my commute, comfortable at the bar after work. I just keep a few suits in the office. Very convenient.

258--Yes. They're called Heelies. Google and enjoy, my friend.

You know what's even more important than fancy, designer clothes and shoes? Being good looking. Which you are not. Sorry.

"what we don't understand is the running shoes. we don't think they're any more comfortable than sandals or flats"

What an absurd statement from Fashionista.

I love the "Working Girl" outfit (low- cut sneakers, skirt, suit jacket, long-sleeved turtleneck and hose with white bobby socks worn rolled down.

I see many office gals in this outfit and they look cute.

Dear Natalie, (With a hat tip to 73)

You provided advice on commuter shoes to abovethelaw recently.

I was just wondering: have you ever worn running shoes? All fashion questions aside, and I claim no knowledge in that department, but how did you come by the assertion that running shoes "aren't any more comfortable than" . . . "skinny high-heeled pumps?"

Running shoes are perhaps the only shoes on the planet actually designed with physiology in mind. They cushion the heel and the ball of the foot, provide arch support and are breathable, flexible, and light weight. They are specifically designed for people to run marathons. Whereas flip flops are widely understood to cause any number of foot maladies when overused. See http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/summer-flip-flops-may-lead-to-foot-pain/.

I'm not working for the running shoe companies. I really don't have a dog in the hunt, but... really? That comment struck me as one of the most absurd statements about clothing, or generally things worn on the body, I've heard in a long time; and from someone whose public image is built on advice about such things.

Care to take another stab at that one?

Dear Natalie, (With a hat tip to 73)

You provided advice on commuter shoes to abovethelaw recently.

I was just wondering: have you ever worn running shoes? All fashion questions aside, and I claim no knowledge in that department, but how did you come by the assertion that running shoes "aren't any more comfortable than" . . . "skinny high-heeled pumps?"

Running shoes are perhaps the only shoes on the planet actually designed with physiology in mind. They cushion the heel and the ball of the foot, provide arch support and are breathable, flexible, and light weight. They are specifically designed for people to run marathons. Whereas flip flops are widely understood to cause any number of foot maladies when overused. See http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/summer-flip-flops-may-lead-to-foot-pain/.

I'm not working for the running shoe companies. I really don't have a dog in the hunt, but... really? That comment struck me as one of the most absurd statements about clothing, or generally things worn on the body, I've heard in a long time; and from someone whose public image is built on advice about such things.

Care to take another stab at that one?