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Giving New Meaning to the Term 'Gunner'

Jordan Schwartz George Washington University Law School.jpgWe owe that quip to our tipster. Said correspondent pointed out to us that Jordan Schwartz, a rising 3L at GW Law and summer associate at Skadden, was among the first people to pick up an application for a D.C. handgun license yesterday. Schwartz is quoted in several stories covering the event (links collected below).

Here's the article from the Washington Times:

Among the roughly half-dozen residents who arrived early Thursday was Jordan Schwartz, a 23-year-old law student at George Washington University.

Mr. Schwartz said he does not own a gun but thinks submitting an application is important because it allows him and others to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

"I'm putting myself in a position to own a handgun," said Mr. Schwartz, who lives in the Foggy Bottom neighborhood in Northwest. "I think I should have the right to defend myself."

At Skadden, only the strong survive. SASMF partners, consider yourselves warned: Jordan Schwartz won't take crap assignments.

Even though Schwartz appears to be a strong supporter of Second Amendment rights -- the AP story quotes him describing yesterday as "an extremely momentous day" -- one Washington Times commenter views him as a pansy for even submitting to the District's licensing process:

Besides the fact that what the Gestapo in DC is doing is blatantly still unconstitutional and smacks of pure fascism, the biggest joke in this story is so-called "law student" Jordan Schwartz. The story states that he "thinks submitting an application is important because it allows him and others to exercise their Second Amendment rights."

How does having to fill out an application for permission from the government to do something which humans have a fundamental right to do, protect a Constitutional right? What part of "shall not be infringed" does this aspiring lawyer NOT understand?

A sensible prerequisite to owning and handling a deadly weapon is having a functioning brain. Maybe Mr. Schwartz should study harder at "law school." And read some history while he's at it.

All righty then! Gotta love those Times readers (Washington Times, not New York Times).

Update: Speaking of Skadden summer associate adventures, we've gotten word of a story out of New York that we're trying to get confirmation and more details on. If you think you know what we're talking about, please email us. Thanks.

District begins licensing pistols [Washington Times]
DC residents start applying for gun permits [AP via WTOP]
Few Show Up To Register Handguns In D.C. [WRC / NBC4.com]
Gun Registrations Off To Slow Start in D.C. (slideshow; second photo) [Washington Post]

Comments
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1 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 12:49 PM

FIRST!

Skadden = TTT

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2 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 12:50 PM

Gun control = TTT

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3 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 12:51 PM

Why should anyone have to apply to exercise their constitutional rights? What a tool...

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4 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 12:51 PM

The Washington Times and its readers are both jokes of the least amusing variety.

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5 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 12:52 PM

SECOND!.......Amendment!

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6 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 12:55 PM

The commenter in the Times has it right. It's only a matter of time before the "application" phase is unconstitutional. You can make it illegal for felons and crazies to have guns without requiring everyone to submit DNA, Blood, SSN and anything else to make sure everyone that has a gun is "allowed". We don't make people register to profess their displeasure with the government in their own home. Why does having a gun in the home require permission?

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7 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 12:56 PM

That flashing blue-and-white banner on the frontpage is terrible! It feels like open season on epileptics every time I load the page.

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8 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 12:58 PM

DC's Gun Grabbing Government = TTT

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9 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:03 PM

I'd like to see DC regulate the right to assembly as much as they regulate the right to keep and bear arms.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED is NOT TTT

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10 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:05 PM

Times reader = idiot.

Most states that allow possession of a concealed handgun require some sort of registration and/or licensure. All these gun fanatics think the government will 'use' the information to ferret out handgun owners.

I own handguns. I registered them. I shoot them at firing ranges. If someone broke into my house, I would shoot them with my registered handgun.

Again, what's the problem here?

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11 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:07 PM

Washington TTTimes


amirite????

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12 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:08 PM

Lat, your comment is wrong. Insinuating that he might go on a shooting rampage at Skadden? C'mon, man! Retract that shit.

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13 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:08 PM

The Times commenter is the true tool here.

He states: "What part of "shall not be infringed" does this aspiring lawyer NOT understand?"

Since when are Constitutional rights absolute because of such language? The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make NO LAW . . . abridging the freedom of speech," yet last time I checked such laws are legion (and Constitutional). I'm assuming the commenter would not want an exception to murder laws for those who choose to blow other people's brains out as an expression of their hate for that person.

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14 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:09 PM

My how fast and far ATL has fallen. This is a post about a comment to a post on another blog site.

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15 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:10 PM

1:08 -- TITCR.

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16 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:11 PM

The Second Amendment = TTT

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17 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:12 PM

Pray...for...mojo

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18 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:13 PM

What school does this kid go to?

www.t14law.blogspot.com


My guess...Penn (state)

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19 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:15 PM

1:08: presumably, an advocate of such strict construction wouldn't buy into the concept of symbolic speech, either. put another way, watch who you call a tool.

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20 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:17 PM

Someone should email Lat about the Skadden summer story mentioned in the update, sounds juicy.

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21 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:24 PM

The Times reader is an idiot. Marriage, for example, is a fundamental right, but in pratice may only be exercised en masse under the instruction of the Washington Times's owner, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

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22 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:27 PM

Quite copying me 1:12

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23 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:42 PM

pray... for... 1:27...

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24 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:47 PM

Requiring licensure for concealed weapons is a far cry from the lengths DC is going to impede people from owning a gun in their home. If you read ALL of Scalia's opinion, then it's quite obvious the difference. It is only because Heller asked for a license (probably as a litigation tactic) that the Court said DC should issue him a license.

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25 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:48 PM

What is Skadden?

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26 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:48 PM

1:15: But an advocate of strict constructionism wouldn't learn to be that way by studying harder in law school, as the Times commenter suggests. As you no doubt know, Constitutional law is all about balancing fundamental rights with legitimate government interests. So, the commenter's accusation that the Skadden summer is somehow not paying attention in law school because he has failed to take a strict constructionist view of the second amendment is off base.

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27 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:53 PM

to anyone who knows:

I am around top 15% at a lower T14 w/ secondary journal. what firms should I be looking at this fall (NYC only)?

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28 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:54 PM

GW Law will no doubt protest this guy for not being as liberal as 99.99% of their student body. Their SBA will no doubt condemn his application as being against the bleeding heart lifestyle of GW Law.

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29 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:57 PM

1:53,

Doesn't your school put together a list of what GPAs get offered at what firms?

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30 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:58 PM

1:57 - yes, just wondering whether the secondary journal (i.e. no law review) will change things at all. any insight?

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31 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 1:58 PM

1:53 - have your pick of storefront ambulance chasers on Queens Boulevard !

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32 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 2:00 PM

1:53,

Not really. Sorry. Good luck.

1:57

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33 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 2:01 PM

i want to know the skadden NYC story. i have been dissappointed with this summers aroudn country for their good behavior.

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34 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 2:02 PM

Agree with 1:08(1). Lat's comments about this kid being prone to shoot people at work are really, really inappropriate.

Use some judgment, for hell's sake. It's one thing for the guy to be quoted in a newspaper article. It's another for a widely read blog to impute violent, irresponsible behavior tendencies to him just because he is *doing something legal*. Really poor showing here.

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35 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 2:02 PM

More important than any of this gun nonsense is the fact that this summer associate has not taken to heart one of the golden rules of being a Biglaw associate: do not talk to the press! Ever, about anything! The PR dogs don't like having the firm's name linked to your name saying something even mildly controversial. Stupid, kid.

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36 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 2:03 PM

Agree with 1:08(1). Lat's comments about this kid being prone to shoot people at work are really, really inappropriate.

Use some judgment, for hell's sake. It's one thing for the guy to be quoted in a newspaper article. It's another for a widely read blog to impute violent, irresponsible behavior tendencies to him just because he is *doing something legal*. Really poor showing here.

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37 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 2:12 PM

Oh c'mon, I may not share the politics of the Times guy but I mean seriously, pot meet kettle. That guy wrote in the exact same language that everyone uses here. GW -> "law school" = LOL!

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38 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 2:15 PM

I love how 2d Amend fetishists become so PC-demanding when talking about gun owners.

"I should be able to refer to my female colleagues as 'girls' without offending anyone if I mean no harm, but don't you dare ever insinuate my gun is a weapon associated with workplace violence!"

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39 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 2:56 PM

I didn't know the Washington Times had readers.

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40 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:14 PM

2:15, let's see how you would react if a widely-read trade blog names you and insinuates that you might shoot up your workplace, and tells your bosses to 'consider themselves warned'.

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41 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:17 PM

Anyone who would apply for a gun license merely to prove a point is an unabashed tool.

So should I go impregnate some chick just to prove my sperm works?

Whn this guy gets to Skadden, someone please place upright thumb tacks on his ergonomically designed swivel chair. Many thanks,

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42 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:34 PM

"So should I go impregnate some chick just to prove my sperm works?"

Yes.

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43 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:39 PM

What I want to know, as a GW alum, is what, exactly, he needs to protect himself from in Foggy Bottom? Drunk sorority girls? Bad fashion trends? Long Island accents? Because those are really, truly, the biggest threats in that neighborhood.

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44 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:39 PM

Skadden will probably non-offer this guy for being a "right-wing gun nut"

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45 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:42 PM

What is with these comments? It's not like the Heller decision was logically necessary. Justice Berger said that Scalia's opinion (and the judgment) wouldn't have received a single vote on his court. It's a radical decision that goes against the majority understanding of the 2nd Amendment that's held forever. And one reason there's been more regulation of guns than the right to assembly (though it's not like that's not regulated too) is that the first amendment doesn't have a limiting, purposive clause.

I guess only the Federalists showed up to work today.

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46 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:45 PM

3:39, this guy clearly is a right-wing nut. He was among the first people to pick up a gun application. Not because he (or anyone) actually needs a gun; just because he fetishizes the second amendment. That makes you a right-wing nut, sorry.

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47 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:46 PM

Lat, nice touch on the numbering for the comments.

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48 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:53 PM

3:39 -- yes and yes. there's still hope for the kid, though. unlike others who apparently have second amendment fetish problems -- among many, many others: http://www.bitterlawyer.com/index.php/columns_detail_comment/you_know_its_time_to_call_a_headhunter_when/?cat_id=6

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49 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 3:56 PM

"Justice Berger said that Scalia's opinion (and the judgment) wouldn't have received a single vote on his court. It's a radical decision that goes against the majority understanding of the 2nd Amendment that's held forever. "

Precisely. And the "punumbra of rights" from which the mythical abortion right was derived is entirely plausible.

Its amazing that for 200 years the Court ignored the plain language of the Second Amendment but meanwhile concocted such ethereal rights as -- the right of children of illegal immigrants to free public education, or the right of women to kill their unborn babies, or the right of foreign enemy combatants to habeus corpus...the list goes on.

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50 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 4:11 PM

Only crazy people post comments. Wait -- where am I?

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51 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 4:18 PM

3:37,

FYI: There has been a spate of muggings (3) involving pistol-whipping in the alleys off of 25th Street. The weekly police blotter usually includes one or two "robbery (gun)" incidents around M Street. I'd be willing to bet the possibility of meeting a guy with a concealed 1911 would go a long way toward stopping such incidents, or at least drive them back to SE.

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52 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 4:32 PM

Those muggings have been in Georgetown, really, and also there's a difference between having a gun b/c you need protection, and having one so you can be stupid and wander the alleys with impunity.

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53 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 4:43 PM

Hewes Mewes, Queen Annes, and Snow's Court are not "in Georgetown, really." Nor would I consider walking through alleys in Foggy Bottom to be stupid. Plenty of undergrad, law, and med students live in townhouses or apartments along all-of-the-above. Hell, UPD reported 48 FORCIBLE BURGLARIES on campus alone in 2006, the last year data is available. See http://gwired.gwu.edu/upd/Statistics/CrimeStatistics/

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54 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 4:51 PM

#53

I got a gun b/c I worry about forcible fondling.

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55 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 5:24 PM

"SASMF partners, consider yourselves warned: Jordan Schwartz won't take crap assignments."

Lat - seriously - this is really inappropriate. Please show some decency and edit.

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56 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 5:47 PM

4-RIDE BRO.

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57 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:09 PM

#49, wrong. Scalia ignores the plain language of the Second Amendment. You know, the beginning part that goes, "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State . . . ."

But the "original intent" of George fucking Washington was for five year-olds to run around with missile-launchers, right?

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58 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:18 PM


Attention on the thread:

1. DC will never let anyone concealed carry or take gun outside their house for any reason, so forget about (a) stopping muggers or (b) workplace violence.

2. DC's new "license" system is just as unconstitutional as the old one.

3. According to the Constitution, government powers are limited. Rights are not limited. Therefore, if a court wants to make up an unenumerated right, or expand an enumerated right, I'm all for it. Burger's crew just forgot that unborn children are persons and have rights (e.g., not to be killed, similar the right that 6-month olds have). Making up gov't powers is much less cool, though done all the time so I guess we can't stop it.

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59 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:29 PM

Where in the constitution does it say that a 2 month old, centimeter-long ball of cells is a "person"? I don't remember that part. I thought you people were supposed to be literalists.

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60 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:33 PM

That rights/powers argument is absurd when you try to expand it to a generality, #58. So if the Court invents a right to kill indiscriminantly that's better than it saying the federal government has the power to levy an income tax? Wait, don't answer that -- I forgot this board has been overrun by federalist society nutjobs.

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61 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:37 PM


Huh, 6:29? Where does it say you're a person? Or that a woman's a person?


Abortion puts a lot conservatives on the wrong side of liberty and unenumerated rights because they can't get over Roe v. Wade. They'll say, "Where did they get the right to privacy from?"

I want my right to privacy and all my other rights. I just see that my rights end at your nose- or in the case of a baby, at the baby's life.

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62 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:41 PM

6:33, you're sounding like a nutjob by saying that the court might give people a right to kill but not levy an income tax . . .

Oh, wait, you can kill babies without a constitutional amendment but you did need one to levy income tax. My bad.

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63 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:45 PM


#60: As for FedSoc types taking over ATL, know that it's just because it's anonymous and we can afford to speak freely without getting run right out of our offices in liberal bubbles like DC, SF and NYC (that vote 90% democrat).


But if you moved to Oklahoma you'd have the privilege of being the radical. This is a big country. We're cats and dogs, living together.

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64 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:53 PM

Thanks 61. My point is I don't think you actually need a right to privacy to get a right to abortion. I think it's enough to say as a scientific and philosophical matter a first-trimester fetus is not a person, and therefore has no rights. Do what you will with it. Who cares?

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65 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 6:57 PM

No, #62, it was #58 who suggested it was fine to grant invented rights but not expand government power. This was a reducto ad absurdem. BTW, you can't kill babies in this country - infanticide is illegal. Unconscious, non-cognitive balls of cells are another story. Do you not have the right to masturbate because sperm contains genetic material that might one day constitute part of a person? Drawing the line at consciousness and viability makes absolute sense.

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66 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 7:13 PM

You're missing the point, #64. The Federalist project is to invent a whole new set of rights for a set of non-persons (i.e., mindless balls of cells). They hide the fact that they are seeking to invent new constitutional rights by pretending to be outraged by the derivation of a privacy right (because conservatives HATE to have privacy), which they contend is a horrible invention of a new constitutional right, which is the worst, most "activist-judge" thing anyone could ever do. It's a standard, one might say Rovian, method of argument -- project your own weak point onto your opponent and attack. Unsurprisingly, it's all result-oriented and has nothing to do with the "original intent" or the text of the constitution or any generally applicable principle (other than, somewhat ironically, the general belief that the government should be able to have control over people's lives (whether by denying a right to privacy or granting rights to non-persons in a way that restricts the rights of persons).

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67 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 7:51 PM

I go to school with Mr. Schwartz - he is one of the biggest gunners ever. With his "Skadden" personality and inability at normal social interaction, its no wonder he is so scared that he feels like he needs a gun - and that to in Foggy Bottom. The only danger in this neighborhood is that some spoilt brat of a GW undergrad (I think Jordan was an undergrad at this "most expensive school in the country") accidentally fires off his gun while pulling his roller bag around (yes he owns one of those)!

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68 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 10:50 PM

Cravath associates have no need for guns as, by virtue of being "Cravath Material," are gifted in the arts of muy tai, Capoeira and kung fu.

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69 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, July 18, 2008 11:09 PM

I also had class with Schwartz. I found this post funny because in my time in law school I never met anyone as much of a gunner as him--not even close. He was relentless, and never quite understood that professors also get annoyed with dbaggery.

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70 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, July 19, 2008 3:39 AM

Please - "something" happened in New York? Gone fishing much, Lat? You're pathetic.

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71 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:17 AM

Wait, let me get this straight...you're making fun of him because (1) he followed the law and applied for a permit, and (2) the press misquoted him and because the Washington Times (that Nazi rag) made him look bad?

Comments 67 and 69, I assume that you're just jealous that he's working at a real law firm while you're forced to chase ambulances. Enjoy.

- Fellow Skadden DC summer

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72 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, July 19, 2008 9:00 AM


And what about the 9th Amendment?

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73 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:11 AM


Hey, a few more years of abortion and birth control will take care of the whole "liberals having a democratic majority" problem, so please go ahead. I'm keeping my kids and raising them to be right-wingers.

Love,

FedSoccer

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74 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:12 AM

71 - I'm at a top 10 firm that has amazing work and isn't a sweatshop, so I'm neither jealous of him nor you. If you're going to fault me for anything it should be publicly disparaging a student while remaining anonymous--not the coolest I admit. But it's just too easy here, because we're talking about the absolute worst gunner. Ever.
-69

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75 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, July 19, 2008 3:05 PM

69 -

There's nothing quite like buying into the rumors and thinking that Skadden is a sweatshop. How many billable hours does your firm average (Skadden DC is roughly 2000-2100)? And how about that bonus (Skadden was 45k last year)? Can it match Skadden's (probably not)? Ohh right, you're a non-gunner at GW Law so you're probably at Shearman.

If you think Jordan is a gunner, you've clearly never talked to him. He's the type of guy who will do everything to make sure he's doing well, but not at the expense of others. Not once have I felt that he was being competitive with me. Not once have I thought that he was doing things that hurt others for his own gain. Heck, I know he even took his secretary out to lunch. Have you done that?

Perhaps before judging Jordan, you should ask yourself why you feel the need to disparage him (on Above the Law of all places) in the first place.

Finally, ask yourself if Jordan has ever done anything to directly harm you. If the answer is yes, reveal yourself and we can have a real chat.

- 71

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76 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, July 19, 2008 4:24 PM

71 -
You make good points, except a couple silly assumptions, for example that I've "clearly never talked to him." Indeed I have. And that I work at Shearman. Really? You can tell where someone works based on what school they go to?

That said, while you're assumptions are wrong perhaps your frustrations are coming from the right place. This post is a personal attack, and just because Jordan wants to make a statement about carrying a gun in DC doesn't make him a gunner, nor does it justify this attack. I commented simply to verify the accuracy of the post -- he is a gunner. He has made classes annoying. He might be a heck of a guy, but from one perspective, mine, the post is accurate. Does that justify a public personal attack? Probably not. So you would be correct to express your frustrations at a post -- and I concede, my comment -- that comes at the expense and embarrassment of another person, even if it is true.

That is great you can expect such a wonderful work-life balance at Skadden Arps. Good luck to you.
-69


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77 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, July 19, 2008 4:34 PM

69 -

First off, you're right that I've made assumptions. Whether they are fair or not, I cannot know. After all, you won't reveal yourself. You're willing to attack Jordan time after time, but if you're at a top 10 law firm at GW, chances are that you fit under the "gunner" category yourself.

Second, Jordan raises his hand in class and talks to his professors. Since he's spending $50k a year for his legal education, I think making the most of it is probably a good idea. If this makes class "annoying" for you, perhaps you should take other classes.

I will enjoy my life at Skadden. Thanks.

- 71

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78 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 12:59 AM

And chances are 71 is a douche. Perfect for Skadden.
-78

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79 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:12 AM

78 -

Fair enough. But I'm a douche that takes care of his fellow summer associates.

- 71

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80 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 11:29 AM

The first part of the second amendment is obviously declarative and not limiting or purposive. It doesn't say "if, and only if, a well regulated militia is necessary . . . the right of the people to keep and bear arms FOR THE MILITIA . . . ". It should obviously be read as "BECAUSE a well regulated militia is necessary . . . the right of the people to keep and bear ams . . . (no qualification)". The drafters felt at the time that it was important to declare that a well regulated militia was necessary and that that is why they created the right for the people. That may or may not be true today, but if it is no longer true then the constitution should be amended. It doesn't change the fact that the drafters created the right for the people because they felt a well regulated militia was necessary, and the reason they created the right does not mean you can ignore the right because you don't believe the reason for it still exists.

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81 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 11:32 AM

To put it another way, if the first amendment would have been drafted to say "#45, being an asshole, the right to free speech shall not be infringed" it wouldn't mean that you can infringe on the right to free speech if you don't think #45 is an asshole.

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82 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 2:51 PM

I know this dude he's a Dean's fellow at GW and is massively chilled and nice. Back the fuck off him, douches!

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83 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:06 PM

***** ADVICE ON DOJ HONORS PROGRAM *****

Does anyone have advice from inside DOJ on how to get a job in AG's Honors Program?

I am a top graduate (top 20% & "cum laude"), from a first tier law school in DC (American University, Washington College of Law), was even on a journal (not the LR, thou), and received the "high 'A'" in three relevant classes during law school (including federal courts, legal writing, and civ pro). I got rejected my first time applying from the honors program originally, but then got a clerkship in a prestigious federal court in the south with a well-regarded mag. judge. My judge thinks that I should reapply pot-clerkship.

Dilemma: Only problems are that i interned for the Public Defender's office in law school (some say that tags me a "liberal", but I think its ok) and I also interned for what many people would call a "liberal" legal service organization. Any thoughts on whether its easier to get a job there now? Does the fact that i clerk for a federal judge give me a greater chance to stick out in the crowd? Any thoughts (especially from DOJ-insiders) is most appreciated.

Thank you for your help,
AU Alum / fed. clerk

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84 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:16 PM


#83:

Here are the problems, as I see them:

1. You went to a TTT law school.
2. You proceeded to take a TTT clerkship.

Nothing about your resume says "honors." My advice is that you should try to start over as a first year at Thelen or Heller, who might be desperate enough to hire you.


As for the liberal tags on your resume, nothing's going to tag you harder than going to American WCL, so you may as well just embrace it. If you go to a Cali office of Thelen or Heller you might be able to moonlight at one of those medicinal marijuana shops.


Hope that helps,

#84

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85 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:20 PM

Ha, you just got trolled, 84. Nobody would actually come on ATL to brag about a magistrate clerkship, or being on a journal at AU.

Everybody knows the only first tier schools in DC ar GW, GULC and Mason.

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86 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:35 PM

Dear 83,

You failed to mention that your law school has graduated many "distinguished" lawyers, like, umm, ok nevermind.

(1) Bragging about being "top 20% & 'cum laude'" at American University is like winning an honorable mention at the Special Olympics.

(2) Pointing out that you "w[ere] even on a journal (not the LR, thou [sic]" at American University is something that you can brag to your parents about (but only if they are non-lawyers, or are TTT grads themselves).

(3) Mentioning that you earned "'high 'A['s]'' in three relevant classes" is like when 50 Cent boasted that he "had been shot a few times, and now [he] walks with a limp" (i.e., nothing to be proud of).

(4) Bragging that you work for a "prestigious federal court in the south" (what -- W.D. Tenn. or S.D. Ala. or some other po-dunk town) is almost as retarded as your statement, that you Article I boss, is "a well-regarded mag. judge." So naive.

(5) Not sure what you mean when you write that your "judge thinks that [you] should reapply pot-clerkship." -- I'll let your unintelligable comment stand on its own.

My advice -- if you want to work for the government, seek a job at the local worker's comp. office. I hear that the hours are great!

Sincerely,

# 85

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87 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:41 PM

5:06 PM (aka 83) --

I'm not an insider, but I can offer my lay advice. Join the Federalist Society, donate to McCain's campaign, note your Federalist Society / McCain ties on your resume, and pray that no one on the hiring committee realizes that you went to a TTT law school and clerk for a TTT judge in a TTT judicial district.

Good luck!

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88 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:53 PM

84 -87,

83 here. I am not bragging about attending AU (if I was accepted at a higher-ranked DC-area law school, I certainly would have attended the better school). I also am not bragging about clerking for an Article I judge rather than for an Article III judge (if I obtained a job from a district court judge, I probably would have taken), and I am not bragging about my rank (20% of my class did better than me, after all). I am simply soliciting advice on getting into the Honors Program.

I am not trying for the Solicitor's Office and I am not looking for a job with Office of Legal Counsel. I am looking to get a foot in the door of a litigating component (not appellate, trial), and I know that less-qualified (or at least applicants with similar qualifications) have been accepted. SERIOUS ADVICE WELCOME.

# 83.

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89 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 5:56 PM

83 -- lie and say you graduated from Chicago Law.

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90 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:02 PM

83, don't reply to people who are obviously pulling your card. It encourages us - er, them.

Try an exec dept other than DOJ and Treasury, like HUD or Interior, that has to litigate all the time.

If you're DOJ or bust and want to litigate/prosecute, try the office of the U.S. Trustee. They prosecute bankruptcy fraud and they have regional offices, so you might be able to interview somewhere they've heard of your judge.

Okay, that's as much honest help as I can give you.

*puts mask back on*

You're TTT and you'll never make it.

Sincerely,

T14

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91 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:03 PM

83 & 88: sticks and stones will break your bones, but words will never hurt you!

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92 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:23 PM

83 / 88,

In sticking with the theme of 90's fully post, I will offer you some serious advice before making fun of your TTT credentials.

There are several litigating arms of DOJ (civil, crim, antitrust, environment, immigration, and a few others). Aside from SG's and OLC's office and a few other positions which you aren't interested in, the litigating departments are the hardest to get into. Try to get your foot in the door through a non-litigating division (like BOP or EOIR) and then transfer to a litigating position, or, like poster 90 suggested, through local or HQ US Trustee's Office. Also, there are other litigating departments and agencies -- so try a DOJ client agency, get to know the smart folks at DOJ, and beg them for a job.

Haven't spent enough time giving you serious advice, I feel I have earned the right to make fun of your TTT Credentials. You will not get hired at DOJ (you worked for a TTT judge and went to a TTT law school), and, if you are lucky, you will get a job working in insurance defense, as a contract attorney. Also, I make lots of money in big law and probably will bang your wife, your mother, and your sister. Also, you have Herpes.

GOOD LUCK, Pal !!!

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93 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:36 PM

83 is so naive. What a moron -- and, like 92, I heard 83 has herpes.

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94 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:17 PM

If Barack HUSSAIN Obama becomes president, he will fill career positions at DOJ with liberals who clerked for magistrates!

John McCain in 2008.

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95 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:17 PM

If Barack HUSSAIN Obama becomes president, he will fill career positions at DOJ with liberals who clerked for magistrates!

John McCain in 2008.

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96 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:17 PM

If Barack HUSSAIN Obama becomes president, he will fill career positions at DOJ with liberals who clerked for magistrates!

John McCain in 2008.

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97 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:36 PM


Yes he can.

The only people who will beat AU grad's for spots in an Obama DOJ are the former Gitmo detainees he's going to waive into the bar to be his civil rights guys.

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98 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 8:17 PM

AU is a great school. I'm not claiming that its a Harvard. But it really is no different -- from the perspective of its ability to train lawyers and the jobs its graduates obtain -- than GW.

GULC and UVA are a step above, but aside from those two schools, GW is equal to other area law schools (and better than many, including Maryland, Baltimore, Mason, Catholic, Howard, UDC, etc.).

And lots of AU grads hold top positions at the Justice Department, and so I am sure that a qualified candidate like poster 83 (honors, journal, law clerk with a fed. judge) can get a job there.

AU Grad / former DOJ intern / Biglaw Cog

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99 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 8:42 PM

Poster #98 is a GULC-reject, an AU hippie, and a douche.

Your boss,
GULC, 2001

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100 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 8:55 PM

Hi, GULC 2001 here!
Forgot to mention I have a Tiny Penis. I now pay Bob from the Enzyte commercials to bang my wife while the pills rev up my system.

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101 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:36 PM


GW = Georgetown Waitlist

AU = February signups

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102 Posted by guest | Permalink Monday, July 21, 2008 1:02 PM

I didn't know district court judges hired law clerks. WTF?

- 9th Cir. Clerk

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103 Posted by guest | Permalink Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:03 PM

#57 said "#49, wrong. Scalia ignores the plain language of the Second Amendment. You know, the beginning part that goes, "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State . . . ."'

And you ignore the second part, which says:

".... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Note that the second part applies to the "people"'s right to bear arms in order to be in the position to form the "well regulates Militia" or which the Second Amendment speaks. Had the drafters intended the right to apply only to the Militia members, it surely would have said so. Rather, they plainly and clearly intended that it apply to the "people", you know.....US.

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104 Posted by guest | Permalink Thursday, July 31, 2008 3:09 PM

Not to mention that Scalia thoroughly analyzed the two clauses of the amendment and their relationship to one another. Not exactly "ignoring."
Better a gun nut than an ignorant stooge.

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