Heller Ehrman, Baker & McKenzie: C’mon, Guys, Get A Room Already!
We thought that Monday was going to be the big day for announcement of a merger between Heller Ehrman and Baker & McKenzie. But Monday passed without any word. So did Tuesday, and Wednesday.
Does delay mean no deal? Not necessarily. The parties’ mating ritual continues, according to Legal Pad:
Heller Ehrman partners received some promotional materials about Baker & McKenzie…. Apparently, there was little to it — we hear it was mostly information that could be found on Baker’s Web site — and the word “merger” didn’t accompany the packet….
We’ve heard about the mystery packet too. From an ATL tipster:
I did see the packet that my boss got—about a 2” thick bound book of promotional materials about Baker & McKenzie, along with an NDA (which means I’m not sure I’ll be getting much more info on it). The shareholders then had a conference call [earlier in the week] about the merger talks.So I guess there was kind of an announcement…. just not to the associates or public. The waiting game continues.
Indeed. We may lay off this story for a bit, despite the apparent keen interest in it, because it’s like waiting for Angelina to pop out her twins. It will happen when it happens.
And an announcement, while perhaps imminent, is not that imminent. Legal Pad says to expect an announcement “within the next two weeks.”
Now, back to more productive pursuits. To the extent that anything we do around here is “productive.”
Update (8/11/08): It seems that these merger talks have died.
Heller Partners Bone Up on Baker [Legal Pad / Cal Law]
(88) Comments
Comments
first!
if two ttt firms combine do u get a tttt (truly third tier toilet)?
BM + HE = TTT
i can't handle this waiting game any more.. . But what do I care, I just quit from the firm. No McFirm on my resume, ever!
And here's a suggestion for a room (the world's only 7 star hotel, and the butler LOOKS AND TALKS EXACTLY LIKE DAVID LAT!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUW9MWLIQYw
A Heller / Baker merger will not generate offspring as hot as an Angelina / Brad merger.
Buffalo favors URMs with full awards.
http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=PopcornJunkie
Other similarly situated applications are rejected outright.
http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=chels43ie
Perhaps this influences Buffalo’s Numbers and thus its rankings.
http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/search_schools.php?action=search&cycle=5&school_code=2925
No, No, in management's view, we get a Truly Top Tier Transformation!!
2:06 - Huh?
1:36 + 1:38 = TTTTTT
when will Baker &McKenzie reach 10,000 attorneys? or are they there yet?
as has already been mentioned on atl, b&m is pulling a coudert job on heller
2:12 = Works at a TTT firm. Sucks for you.
I know nothing about Baker & McKenzie, but Heller always seemed like a great firm.
How can a merger come together in two weeks if the Heller partners are only getting information now?
3:04: because atl says so.
because the partners that matter in Heller (some have a much much much greater equity interest and greater vote) already got their "packets" in June.
Giving info to the other non-influential partners is lip service. Its a done deal. It's like getting legislation passed. You don't present it until you have the vote to pass it in your pocket.
That's why the disproportionate share of equity per partner system sucks. Little guys get screwed and then they'll all leave.
"There's something called an "NDA" - not sure what that is, but let me flip through the rest of the binder and tell you what else is here..."
Nice.
Note to Heller clients - this is how they treat *your* information too.
Is it the fact that Heller is going down the toilet that makes it so attractive to Baker?
3:03: "Seemed" is correct.
Any guesses on whether incoming Heller 1st year associates will still have jobs come September?
Are Heller associates thinking back to the days when they seriously considered Orrick, MoFo, Fenwick et. al.?
Summers will be fine.
Baker is hiring out the a$$ everywhere.
does baker get high end work?
Baker might be hiring elsewhere, but does that mean they want young Heller associates? I thought Baker was just keeping the strong parts of Heller and dumping the rest?
4:36, no. Never has, never will.
4:38 - You mean strong parts other than the 50 or so attorneys who've already left Heller in the past 12 months?
4:43 - good point. So then why does Baker want Heller at all?
Baker wants heller for their offices and presence in three markets:
LA
Seattle
NY
Baker currently:
no LA office. no Seattle office.
125 in NY
What about Heller people where Baker already has offices?
I imagine that some of the smaller heller offices will get dissolved, especially the international offices.
Other than that something like what Baker and Coudert did in NY is to be expected. That was pretty much a full integration.
Baker in NY is actually in Coudert's offices.
The real interesting question arises in NY where Baker already has 125+ lawyers. Real estate is sparce in NY and I don't think Baker has much room left. Does that mean Baker NY will get new digs to accomodate the Heller newbies? Maybe that pretty Bank of America tower next door to their offices now.
Lat - get on it!
4:36 For High-end work by Baker, wander over to the Tax Court courtroom in San Francisco and see them trying the Veritas Software case, one of the biggest asserted tax deficiencies on record.
Heller's got great offices high up in Times Sqaure Tower - with room to grow. My bet: McB moves over there...
I heard about that big Veritas case. What is it like for associates working on a case like that?
5:26, I'm sure it totally sucks, as is the case with all large litigations for anyone other than senior partners. I don't know why you law students don't get this. I understand you've never worked before, but it seems like something you could figure out a priori: big matter = more staffing, bigger budget, higher risk = client willing to throw partner hours at everything, unwilling to let associates have responsibility, willing to pay associates to do what could be done by paralegals = shitty experience (but you get to tell people you work on "cutting edge litigation" and "big important cases."
So you don't think a junior associate working on such a large tax case learns anything?
7:13pm So you don't think a junior associate working on such a large tax case learns anything?
7:13pm So you don't think a junior associate working on such a large tax case learns anything?
7:13 and 7:17,
Working in the worlds best Tax Controversy practice (B&M's) is pretty cool, no matter what level attorney.
7:13 is exactly right. junior associates will do the most mundane and meaningless tasks on litigation like this. Can you learn something from it? -- perhaps by osmosis. But not from any real practical experience. And there's only so much you can really learn (contrary to what the firms tell you) from doc review, privilege log, and other mundane stuff like that.
You would learn so much more from litigating a small case that's not worth anything, but in which you get primary responsibility (i.e. drafting motions, atlking to opposing counsel, attending hearings, taking/defending depos, etc.).
All that talk about working on "big important cases" would good for parties, if only those big cases were even remotely interesting.
If this goes down, Baker NY will definitely move over to Heller's NY office. The office is amazing, and there is room to grow, as mentioned above.
Still hoping this doesn't happen though...
7:17, basically no. The first matter I worked on as an associate was one of these humongous multi-billion dollar litigations, and I'd say at most 5% of my billable time was productive in terms of actually advancing my legal career or knowledge base in any way. I could easily have done the other 95% if I had dropped out of high school (you couldn't be a total idiot, but it certainly required no formal training or substantive knowledge of the law).
7:30: I agree. I never understood why associates would be all proud of being staffed to the biggest case at a firm. The only time I ever even got to see a courtroom or do any substantive drafting was on a very small case and it was invaluable. Still boring as hell, but invaluable training-wise.
Bakers has an adequate tax practice if you are looking to do a deal in some other third world shit hole, but what does Heller get from this???
By third world shit hole you mean the world's emerging markets of South America and Eastern Europe?
It's a good thing you have any sense of the international business world.
Negatives for junior associate on big litigation:
You didn't go to law school for this.
You didn't need to go to law school to do this.
This isn't training you to do squat.
This isn't making you less fungible to the firm.
Positives for junior associate on big litigation:
You are the most overpaid office drone in the country.
Easy billibles.
If you do make a mistake, odds are very high it won't be noticed because other side's counsel is equally swamped with work to be done by disinterested junior associates.
Anyone of you would love to work for the world's premier tax controv. group (B&M's), as a junior associate or otherwise.
10:27: Excellent last point. The same is true at your own firm. 10:55: I'd seriously rather die than do tax, but to each his or her own.
Considering all the trash talk about Heller, they still ranked 38 on the A-List. Not bad for a "TTT." Perhaps most of the commenters here don't know what they are talking about. If they all got to work maybe their firms could make the A-List someday too.
Heller is a good firm. I don't know much about BM. The silence on this issue, however, hurts Heller. Time to make a statement.
BM is a great firm. As the commenter said, look at the work their tax controvery folks are doing, you don't get bigger than that. And as far as the comments re: associates on such a case...you're nuts. Two years with that on your resume, you can do what you want.
6:47, stop trolling. Everyone who's actually worked at a law firm knows it sucks to work on huge cases as a junior associate. And obviously spending two years doing monkey work on a specialized tax case does not allow you to do "whatever you want." That experience is worthless for even most legal jobs, let alone non-legal jobs. Do you think the U.S. Attorney's office is going to jump all over itself trying to hire some 25 year-old who's done nothing but law school and two years of due diligence on specialized tax issues when they need someone to prosecute white collar criminals? Go home.
7:25pm, um, yes. When they see that you worked for the world's best tax lit practice, they will jump all over you.
Right, because low-level due diligence on a tax case gives you all the experience you need to go try a securities fraud case. You're right. The Red Sox will probably outbid them and hire you as their new left fielder though. You know, because you worked as a peon on huge tax cases for two years.
3:25, that would be fine, except that Heller had been top 5 or at least top 10 for a number of years running until recently. It must have fallen at least 20 places in the past year alone.
The A-List is American Lawyer's list of the nation's elite 20 law firms. Correct me if I'm wrong, Heller Ehrman was on the top 20 since the beginning of the list in 2003. At one point, Heller Ehrman was ranked #2 (2005?) . It was only the last 2 years it fell off the A-List top 20. Heller Ehrman plummeted to #38. Wow! "What the Heller happened?"
Other posted has suggested that management lost sight of their distinctive competencies. Opening up new offices after laying off 65 and knowing 4 key revenue generating cases just ended. Those things are minor.
Drew Combs' article "Culture Wars Take Their Toll on ..." hit a Barry Bonds out of the ball park.
"The harder question is why the pipeline wasn't stocked with new matters."
Anyone have any new info this week?
Both are fine firms.
Both are fine firms.
Any news?
It is sad that we have to come to a gossip blog to attempt to solicit news of our future. Sad times.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It's getting boring. Think I will switch to another subject!
Any new word from those with a view of shareholders' offices?
stay tuned, something is going to be said early next week
7/29 or 7/30 you will know
Will know what - whether I'll get a formal offer?
no you will know that you are going to be Baker McKenzie or not
Baker is pulling out of merger talks. Baker's PPP this year is expected to be 50% more than Heller. So no fit on economics and Heller is not willing to de-equitize its non-performing shareholders. RIP Heller.
As a Heller attorney, I hope that 67 is right about the merger dying on the vine. The only way that it would be "RIP Heller" is if the merger actually came to fruition. Okay, enough grape metaphors for one post.
Hurray. I heard it's not happening.
Hurray. I heard it's not happening.
So, what does that mean? Is Heller going to continue to stand alone and weather the storm? Or what?
65 here, when is a formal announcement going to be made? Anyone know?
Are you kidding. A formal announcement from Heller.
The last "formal" announcement was made last month. The Heller spokes person was confused as everyone else.
"I don't know that I can go into that kind of detail or comment at all,"
While he wouldn't rule out that the firms were discussing a union, he did say, without elaboration, that formal talks were not in progress. "I'm talking about us being in formal discussions with any particular firm," he said. "There's nothing to talk about, or no formal announcement with any firm, including Baker & McKenzie."
Crap, was told that some sort of announcement would be made a few weeks ago and that they would contact me when that happened.
Down the drain......
hey 74 - Heller should stop hiring those inexperienced idiots with online university degrees. With no mid-terms, exams, or finals, those are worst than Fordham or AU.
I don't think this is over with yet
Agree. I think something is still going on since nothing has been announced anywhere to put an end to the 'rumors.'
and if the shareholders read this, why haven't they said anything that it has been canned?
How can it be dead? My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Matt Larrabee and John Conroy out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
Do you honestly expect an announcement?
"I know that we wouldn't admit we were even in merger discussions in the first place, but I would like to admit that we actually were discussing a merger. Also, I would like to tell you that the merger will not be taking place after all because B&M doesn't like our PPP."
Ha. Laughable.
I don't know 81 - should I 'honestly' expect an announcement? Would it be wrong for me to 'dishonestly' expect an announcement?
so why is there so many Baker partners going to NY this next week? Cutting vacations short overseas? God, I don't want you heller people coming to baker
67 here. I was wrong. Merger is happening. At least a third of Heller Shareholders are going to be de-equitized. Will they stand for that? Probably, given the lack of portable business. Associates should run. No chance of going up the ranks.
Nothing is a sure thing until both parties actually sign on the dotted line. I would assume that they are still negotiating and it could go either way. We just don't know and won't know until both sides make an announcement. In the meantime, just sit back and wait.
85, given what's been written above about 'announcements,' does this mean the merger could happen and the rest of us peons might never know about it until way after the fact?
86, 85 here. Making an announcement after the fact appears to be the MO in Heller world. Do you think the management would actually announce something before it was "after the fact"? So far, announcements have only been vague references to "possible mergers" with no name firms.
85, so essentially it is dead?
http://abovethelaw.com/2008/08/heller_baker_merger_dead.php
It's been reported on a few web sites as well. Wish something official would come out though.
As a legacy LeBoeuf associate, I think the Heller associates deserve better.