The Meaningful Minutiae of Firm Life in the Summertime: Open Thread
[Ed. note: This post is by EXLEY, one of the finalists in ATL Idol, the "reality blogging" competition that will determine ATL's next editor. It is marked with Exley's avatar (at right).]
As anyone remotely familiar with the law knows, the devil is in the details. Similarly, it's the little things that can sometimes make or break a long day at the office. A mouse with a trackball that refuses to roll in a particular direction, for example, or harsh bathroom lighting that gives everyone's reflection a sickly, ghoulish, glow can really mess a girl up. And a half-nod of recognition from a usually impassive lobby security guard can make a dude feel like the office is his second crib.
The dog days of summer present their own set of potential pet peeves.
The major complaint we've heard from female associates is that offices are too damn cold in the summer. Of course, offices are probably the same temperature year-round, but the coolness is more tolerable in the non-summer seasons when people wear warmer clothes. When it is as high as 90 degrees outside, however, it is impossible to commute to work in wool slacks and a sweater set without suffering heat stroke and/or being fingered as a crazy person (especially if wearing a pair of ostentatious cross trainers). Physical and mental health issues aside, it just feels good to be able to change it up sartorially once in a while.
Unfortunately, those who indulge in summer apparel sometimes need to store additional layers of clothing at work or snuggle under company-issued fleece at their desks. And forget about drinking an ice coffee or Jamba Juice inside! You'll need a parka and a hunting cap to be able to do that.
Is your law firm unbearably cold or hot this summer, and have you been able to do anything about it? We've heard suspicions that the thermostats in individual offices at Skadden's New York office don't really do anything at all, and that the office is kept cold "for the computers." Sounds ominous.
Any theories on why offices spend so much money blasting the AC in the summer and possibly lowering employee morale? (Perhaps it's a way to awaken associates from the depths of summer associate food coma, or to indirectly discourage skimpy clothing.)
Summer attire can also chafe against firm dress code policies. Despite the perennial push for "city shorts" by what seems like every single women's apparel retailer, are there any firms out there that actually allow employees to wear shorts to work?
Of course, even the uncontroversial short-sleeve dress shirt can raise issues if it reveals a tattoo, or three. A partner with such a predicament writes:
I'm a 50 year old lawyer in NY, a partner in a law firm. I have tattoos on my arms with images and the names of my two children and my wife.
Check out what happens when he rolls up his sleeves, and share your own summertime firm life experiences, after the jump.
Here's how the tattooed law firm partner deals with his tats:
Of course, I wear long sleeves with many clients, and in court. But I have had clients come to visit me, or something, and see them. Uniformly, the reactions have been positive. Sometimes I tell people, I use the tattoos to scare or shake people up in depositions (nothing like taking off your suit jacket, rolling up your sleeves, and saying, "Now, would you like to reconsider the answer you just gave?"). I had one client stop by the other day, two guys, actually, and I had a short sleeve shirt on. They were stunned. They proceeded to show me their tattoos, which were also for family members. We had a good laugh and realized we had something else in common.
Have you shown any clients or colleagues your tattoos?
Does the later sunset make you feel guilty if you leave when it's not even dark outside yet?
Do you try to eat lunch outside, to absorb some vitamin D and goggle the flimsily dressed corporate eye-candy?
Please share your thoughts on these and other summertime firm life minutiae, in the open thread.
(141) 
First to say - you are the weakest link....GOODBYE
Too long to read. Does not get the ALT thing.
Kash Hill remains the best choice to edit this blog.
You're only as good as your last post, and this one is BAD. I hear Hope Winters is hiring.
useless post.
Dawg, I already read the NYT today.
Write in Kash. She got it from day-one. Do we believe in merit, or not?
I guess this wasnt too bad.... mildly amusing for a slow afternoon...
I guess this wasnt too bad.... mildly amusing for a slow afternoon...
- Law firms use AC and that makes the office cold.
- Do you show people your tattoos?
yeah, too long for the topic
I hear Akin DC has individual thermos that work...
Long, rambling, no form or structure. What the hell was this article about, anyways?
I have a tattoo of Tom Selleck's mustache on my upper lip.
Ummm is this recycled from every morning talk show ever?
really really weak. exley, you disappoint. rambles all over place just to get to a "share your thoughts" ending? ugh.
Seriously, only one of the auditions today was actually about current events... I hate to say it but Sophist gets my vote
It's ICED coffee, not "ice coffee," dimwit.
I enjoyed this post, especially your "tipster." Use of the jump was a bit clunky though.
Short-sleeve dress shirts are only "uncontroversial" if you are in door-to-door sales.
Snooze fest
Not your strongest showing, Exley.
Well, I was wrong about the 5-liner. Instead, we were given an incoherent mess and told to discuss....what, exactly?
Great post...for a fashion blog. Isn't this ATL?
Between this and the post about the airport billboard I think Exley is just dialing it in at this point.
first paragraph was good, went downhill from there
sophist is best so far
Didn't work for me, Dawg. Little pitchy.
awful. just awful. like a puppy who sh*t on the floor instead of the grass. awful.
Was this supposed to be the substantive post?
these topics were both stolen from todays NY media (shorts as appropriate business attire in todays NY Times and air conditioning too high on todays Brian Lehrer show on WNYC).
these topics were both stolen from todays NY media (shorts as appropriate business attire in todays NY Times and air conditioning too high on todays Brian Lehrer show on WNYC).
Guys in my high school scared the crap out of people by rolling up their sleeves and showing their tattoos all the time. It was no big deal.
And a half-nod of recognition from a usually impassive lobby security guard can make a dude feel like the office is his second crib.
WTF is she babbling about? Someone please kill her.
4:15--is that pronounced SUBstantive or subSTANtive?
Verbose.
Please re-submit to tips@fashionista.com.
Thank you for playing.
I like you, Exley. I would have liked this story better if it had included the NY Times article from style on the use of shorts, considering how awesome Thomas McEntee looks in his short suit. I would like to see THAT at a Biglaw firm.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/fashion/31shorts.html?_r=1&ref=style&oref=slogin
What the hell was this?
this wasn't about ANYTHING! The whole point is just to ask us to share interesting tidbits about our summer routines? Doesn't seem necessary to give such a long intro if you're just gonna ask us to do the work for you. We aren't gunning for EIC, you are, so start acting like it and give us some substance.
After much better posts from F&D and Sophist today, there is no way this is gonna go over well with the ATL readership.
Exley is a terrible, terrible writer. I mean beyond bad. He doesn't get it at all.
Exley is a terrible, terrible writer. I mean beyond bad. He doesn't get it at all.
As someone who has had to buy thickly padded bras to survive summer in a law firm, I know why it's so damn cold.
40, tell us more...
Oh, for fuck sake 35. How do you expect to intimidate anyone if you wear short suit pants, let alone short linen suit pants?
Shorts on a vacation are one thing, shorts with a blazer for office attire is ridiculous.
Yawn. You suck.
ew 41.
ew 41.
Write in Kash Hill.
I have read better articles in the Touro Law Review.
Meandering
What, no comments about Akin Gump withdrawing from Taipei and Silicon Valley and transferring the attorneys there to Alston & Bird?
Exley to...editor of Fashionista.
way to take a hard line on the uselessness of dres codes.
we're attorneys, not models.
44-45 = David Lat. Or some other gay dude.
Suit shorts??? If my lawyer came in wearing those, I'd most likely fire him on the spot.
Yikes, it seems like Exley was too tired to put real effort into this post. I've got news, if you have to do this everyday it doesn't get easier, and the comments don't get nicer...
"The major complaint we've heard from female associates . . . "
Like real attorneys care about this.
I was rooting for you, but this is awful. GOODbye
GOGGLE? i think you mean OGLE you moron.
41 = TTT
Ok, this one sucked pretty bad. I was a big Exley fan to start based on the bios, but these two posts have not been impressive. I am now dropping him in the rankings.
For those keeping score, the current rankings are:
1. Sophist
2. Alex
3. Anyone else
4. Exley
5. Marin
6. F&D
Comprehensive rankings:
Sophist
Marin
Alex
F&D
Exley
lol @ 47
"A mouse with a trackball that refuses to roll in a particular direction."
Yeah, or like when the tractor-feed paper holes won't match the printer....
Jesus, Exley, do you use a Commodore?
just another reason why women dont belong in biglaw, or why they dont last. its friggin 90 out there and when factoring in the humidity, forget about it. thank god for ac and no its never too cold.
also in quinn emanuel shorts and flip-flops (which i personally hate) are the norm and accepted.
finally not a bad post, but kash is still right after lat. kash has that blogging talent (short to the point, knowing when to put the jump, when to have along blog etc.) naturally
Lammetiy lame lame lame.
Jumped the shark.
Ever hear that phrase? This applies to this thread and Exley.
What's wrong with suit shorts on men? They're all the rage across the pond. Where do you think JCrew got that trend from? Very sharp, professional yet sporty.
There's a reason sports coats was invented.
It hides moobs on the typically overfat U.S. attorneys in NYC.
Shorts just shows the flab down there as well.
No.
Exley: thank YOU for bringing this up. I'm a woman working in big law (tall building big law, sheesh Alex, give up that silly phrase), and hate my summertime chills.
1. Exley
2. Alex
3. Sophist
5. Marin
6. F&D
Exley: thank YOU for bringing this up. I'm a woman working in big law (tall building big law, sheesh Alex, give up that silly phrase), and hate my summertime chills.
1. Exley
2. Alex
3. Sophist
5. Marin
6. F&D
Exley: thank YOU for bringing this up. I'm a woman working in big law (tall building big law, sheesh Alex, give up that silly phrase), and hate my summertime chills.
1. Exley
2. Alex
3. Sophist
5. Marin
6. F&D
What's wrong with suit shorts on men? They're all the rage across the pond. Where do you think JCrew got that trend from? Very sharp, professional yet sporty.
I could barely make it past this totally cringe-inducing line: "a half-nod of recognition from a usually impassive lobby security guard can make a dude feel like the office is his second crib."
But I persevered. Only to fall asleep before reaching the end. I think this is even worse than Alex's post given that line quoted above.
OFFICIAL Rankings:
1. Kash
2. Marin
3. Sophist
4. F&D
5. Alex
6. Exley
No, 66, they're not "professional" unless you're a park ranger, a UPS guy or a pro golfer.
They're just "sporty," period. Reminds me of those 'tards who think that they're "dressed up" if their t-shirts have the tommy hilfiger logo.
Not a fan of this post.
I agree with 2 - Kash should become the new ATL editor.
This post is lame as all hell. Also, as a guy, I find it incredibly annoying and offensive when women like to shove their lack-of-a-standard-dress-code in the face of adults who wear, y'know, a suit and tie to work every day. If you enjoy the freedom to wear something sleeveless, don't rub it in by whining about how cold it in in the office. Some of us have to wear an undershirt (so we don't sweat through on our way to work) and a tie and jacket.
This post is lame as all hell. Also, as a guy, I find it incredibly annoying and offensive when women like to shove their lack-of-a-standard-dress-code in the face of adults who wear, y'know, a suit and tie to work every day. If you enjoy the freedom to wear something sleeveless, don't rub it in by whining about how cold it in in the office. Some of us have to wear an undershirt (so we don't sweat through on our way to work) and a tie and jacket.
ogle, not "goggle."
1. HofstraMagna
2. Kash
....
56. Alex
....
327. Exley
328. Sophist
329. Marin
330. F&D
Blatant appeal to gay vote.
[HINT; Marin, as a classic F.H., already has that demographic locked.]
"Goggle"??!??! wtf?
Requirement #1 for being a professional blogger: Literacy.
Exley=FAIL
Women who are cold at work should wear more clothes. The guys have to wear suits (with long sleeve dress shirts, undershirts, ties, etc.) all summer long and don't have the option of wearing lighter, cooler summer clothing. There is nothing guys can do to cool off when some woman wants to set the thermostat way up. Put on some more clothes.
partners at my high school used to bond with their clients by showing them their cock rings all the time. it was no big deal.
that was bad.
Exley to CWT
1. HofstraMagna
2. Kash
....
56. Alex
....
327. Exley
328. Sophist
329. Marin
330. F&D
Dialing it in? More like phoning it in.
Current Rankings
1. Sophist
2. Alex
.
.
.
993. Marin
994. Exley
.
.
.
11,345,678. F&D
i agree that this was a stupid post. but for the record, i'm a woman and have to wear a suit every day and it is still too cold in the office.
"We've heard suspicions that the thermostats in individual offices at Skadden's New York office don't really do anything at all, and that the office is kept cold "for the computers." Sounds ominous."
That's...not really the appropriate use of ominous.
71:
“What's wrong with suit shorts on men?”
Nothing, at a Long Island, Fire island, or LA garden party, fashion shoot, or while escorting Marin (until she finds her dog loving hetro-NJB).
At a corporate or law office: No way.
PS: Write in Kash Hill for ATL editor.
73: Shorts are not allowed on the PGA Tour.
So, this post was basically the indoor equivalent of an awkward one-sided conversation:
"Err, so, how's the weather there . . . ?"
Sorry to inform: there's no such thing as a short-sleeved dress shirt.
Played topic, contrived tone, disjointed writing; shall I go on? Exley sounds like a neophyte.
I believe his time is up.
I think the topics were great! I am ALWAYS cold at work during the summer - with my blanket nearby. And it is really irritating trying to dress appropriately. Good work, Exley!
75/76/81 are you a law student? Lawyers (outside of the deep south) do not wear suits to work unless they are taking a deposition or appearing in court.
This post sucks! BTW - the A/C is cranked up because men wear long sleeve shirts, ties and jackets. As men control the legal profession, the women must suffer in their short sleeve shirts and skirts. Men also like to see a little nipple action, so they keep it cold on purpose. YAY for NIPS
95, are you an idiot? Many, if not most, BigLaw firms require suits be worn to work. They don't have business casual dress codes.
Exley, you're a great writer, but you should write a "legal" post next time...
Great title.
J. L. Riches for editor!!
Great post -- my fellow interns and I lament about how cold our office is all day. You can literally feel a thaw once you walk outside. I actually like this post, which is rare on ATL. Keep it up!
TfLDNR.
Why are you bitches whining about length? Can't lawyers read an extra paragraph or two when deciding the next ATL EIC?
Exley's plan to appeal to the female readership of ATL meets with failure because he didn't realize that 90% of ATL's readers are male.
I LOVED your post! And I don't know how 104 got that figure. Does Lat even know what the male/female ratio is??
105 = part of the other 10%
Don't you realize Exley is a clitigator herself?
Too long Exley, but you're punchy. You and Sophist stand above the rest in writing talent.
Man, out of all of the posts by all of the contestants up to this point, the only one that was any good was Sophist's post today about Scrabulous. All others have sucked big time. This blog is going down in flames when David leaves.
97, in California no attorney where's a suit unless in court or in deposition (though not even necessarily at a depo; I do, but I know others who don't). When I previously worked for a firm in NYC, the rule was the same. My understanding is the same as 95's -- i.e., that only in the deep south (the most idiotic of all places to wear a wool suit in summer) do firms still require suits.
97, in California no attorney wears a suit unless in court or in deposition (though not even necessarily at a depo; I do, but I know others who don't). When I previously worked for a firm in NYC, the rule was the same. My understanding is the same as 95's -- i.e., that only in the deep south (the most idiotic of all places to wear a wool suit in summer) do firms still require suits.
Overwritten and not very interesting. I vote against.
I've never much cared for hearing the women I work with complain about how it's too cold inside.
Now I know that i don't much care for reading about it, either.
I asked our firm admin folks if we could raise the thermostat that controls my office. Rocket science, I know.
AAAAH! WOMAN TALKING WOMAN TALKING.
When I think short-suit, I think Augustus Gloop.
As for wool suits in the deep south (110/111): Most in the deep south dress appropriately for the season (e.g. tropical weight wool, seersucker, poplin, linen, etc.).
Surely she wasn't talking about short suits for men, was she?
This post is unmeaningful minuta.
110/111,
In 97's post he said "many, if not most, Biglaw shops require suits every day." That statement is most definitely true even if most California and New York firms don't require suits (although I bet that "many" California and New York firms do require suits).
D- nozzle
Kash Hill for ATL editor!
Lat: At least give us the option of writing Kash in on the last ballot.
Her posts are better than any of the "Idol" contestants and she was liked and respected by this tough crowd from day-one.
Good writer, but too long and too features-y.
This was funny: "[T]he office is kept cold 'for the computers.' Sounds ominous."
But then "forget about drinking an ice coffee or Jamba Juice inside! "
Ugh!
So far, I still like Marin. Even after reading her blog.
I am a man. I wear wool pants, a tee shirt, wool socks, and long-sleeved shirt everyday, like 90% of men in BIGLAW.
If women would just wear clothes that cover their arms and necks and wear closed-toe shoes, they would be fine.
This isn't rocket science or even thermodynamics. Christ.
That was absolutely dreadful. It was as if I was at a karaoke bar, and someone was humming the same note, with no music playing, for five minutes.
/simon
p.s. here's a tip, before you post something, think to yourself, "who cares?" If the answer--like here-- is "no one," please do not post. What, you think people are going to bond over how their office is cold too? Don't be stupid.
I like Kash just as much as everybody else, but can she really be EIC without having worked as a lawyer or even going to law school?
I'd be worried about the kind of information she'd be able to get because of this.
125: Why?
None of the editors of major news papers are lawyers.
David Lat will retain management control over the blog, and still has his contacts.
The same confidentiality policy still allies to tips. And the tips will still to tips@abovethelaw.com.
The same thing initially occurred to me, but on reflection, I think she would be great.
"(especially if wearing a pair of ostentatious cross trainers)"
Ostentatious = flashy. Ostentatious != ubiquitous. YOU FUCKING FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for this post Exley -- summers piss me off!
Thanks for the post Exley -- I FREEZE in the summers
I HATE FEMALE FLIP FLOPPERS IN THE OFFICE. SORRY FOR THE CAPS. GOTO THE FKING BEACH, SOME PEOPLE ARE HERE TO WORK.
I HATE FEMALE FLIP FLOPPERS IN THE OFFICE. SORRY FOR THE CAPS. GOTO THE FKING BEACH, SOME PEOPLE ARE HERE TO WORK.
130/131 - and we hate double posters who have no patience to let their response go through...
Off to get more coffee... *flip flop flip flop*
I wish I could wear short-sleave shirts without looking like an engineer!
I agree that Kash is a good writer and has a good sense for what the readership here likes. So similar are their styles that I have to look at the byline to see which posts are from her and which are from Lat. So I think she would be a great candidate to take over as the boss of ATL.
But isn't she living and working in Hong Kong now? Perhaps her other commitments would preclude her from being the ATL editor. I hope she continues to contribute when a new editor is selected.
Current ranking:
1. Marin
2. Sophist
.
.
45. Exley
.
.
3456856834765. F&D
898640958683475394. Alex
Summation:
Many offices require suits all year round. The Daniel Patrick Moyhnihan Building is extremely cold during the summer, perhaps because we all expect to be in court everday, hence we wear suits.
I try to wear summerweight suits, but a year round wardrobe of suits is expensive for those of us not on biglaw salary.
There is some gender division in this. Women do have something of a problem, because many judges or offices prefer to see women wear skirt suits, and not pant suits, which means they will be cold in the office in the summer and cold outside in the winter. I personally think this is utter nonsense, and a holdover from thankfully outdated sexual mores, and that women should just wear pantsuits. You aren't here to look sexy; you are here to practice. And there is no way in hell I am wearing shorts into chambers, so do us both a favor and wear a pant suit.
I actually find my office way to warm in the summer. It becomes hard to stay awake. Women need to stop whining and remember that the world doesn't revolve around their comfort. If they want to work in the man's world, they have live with a man's temperature.
Bur skirt suits are so sexy!
I like summer. One of our OCI criteria is to look for full breasted summer associates (female, of course). We crank the a/c down as low as it will go. Watch their perky little nipples in the cold. Base offers/no offers on how they respond, rather than substantive legal ability or interpersonal skills (unless they are at Skadden and have sex in the office, which is a great interpersonal skill).
After all, associates are fungible.
CWT Hiring Partner
Quinn Emanuel Los Angeles - shorts, flip flops, jeans all year long....
Quinn Emanuel Los Angeles - shorts, flip flops, jeans all year long....