Nationwide Layoff Watch: Pillsbury Winthrop Axes 15 in California?
Back in April, when we broke the news of a shortened summer program and delayed start dates at Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman, one commenter opined:
If I were in this position, I would use that extra time to look for a position at a different firm. At least Pillsbury had the decency to not fire people.
Hmm, how sure are we about that? In the comments to that same post, there were conflicting reports of layoffs at Pillsbury Winthrop. Some claimed that PWSP had already started laying off associates, while others denied layoffs and asserted that the firm was humming along nicely. (We tend to doubt the latter; otherwise the firm wouldn’t have trimmed the summer program and pushed back start dates.)
Regardless of what was or wasn’t true back in April, we now have, on fairly reliable authority, word that Pillsbury recently let go of approximately 15 attorneys in its San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco offices. Unfortunately, we don’t have more details (e.g., timing, practice groups, severance, etc.). If you do, or if you have a correction or clarification pertaining to this report, please email us.
Caveat: this report could be erroneous, in whole or in part; it has not been confirmed by Pillsbury Winthrop. We reached out to the firm for comment last week, and again this morning, but they did not get back to us. Perhaps they will confirm when contacted by a different outlet (just as they didn’t comment to us about their curtailed summer program and delayed start dates for first-year associates, but subsequently confirmed to the Wall Street Journal).
In other bad news for Pillsbury Winthrop, they recently lost Michael Steel, former managing partner for San Francisco and current co-chairman of the firm’s environmental litigation practice, to Morrison & Foerster. For more, see The Recorder.
Perhaps Pillsbury thinks it can escape its current woes via merger. We’ve been hearing some interesting gossip on that front, which we’ll probably pass along later. If you’ve been hearing similar rumors, please email us with what you know. Thanks.
Key Pillsbury partner joins Morrison & Foerster [The Recorder]
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FIRST to look for new employment!
the doughboy just shed some weight
Cue "Pillsbury = TTT" comments in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
Heller & Pillsbury?
Pillsbury is TTT
Any firm that has the brand name of a food company in it obviously sucks.
I got dinged by Pillsbury at OCI back in law school.
Truly TTT.
These firms, CWT, OMM, McK, Paul Hastings, PIllsbury are going to get have a hard time recruiting top law student once the economy improves, as it surely will.
I know of a SF based associate who left Pillsbury for a position at a smaller firm that pays significantly less. Maybe this associate made the voluntary choice to leave, but it seemed fishy when I heard about it. This happened pretty recently, like the last month or so.
Crap, next thing you know Quaker Oats will push start dates back to January, layoffs at Keebler...
(Everything seemingly is spinning out of control!)
It's gotten to the point that so many law firms have done lay-offs that I don't think law students will be able to discriminate against firms that have done so. I mean if you want a job in SF for instance you don't have many options if you want a large firm that hasn't screwed over at least a few associates in the last year. Bingham, Thelen, Pillsbury are openly in that boat. I bet WSGR, Mofo, Orrick and others have done it too, it just hasn't been made public.
Why is CA being hit so hard? It seems like almost no firm in DC has laid off yet ... (knock on wood)
Merging is a buyers market these days. Pillsbury, Heller, Thelen, etc. Maybe they could all merge into one giant implosion waiting to happen.
just wait until california splits off into the pacific ocean, then it will be real bad.
DC firms are probably not as impacted by the down economy because most of them have significant regulatory practices
CA firms are worse off than top NYC firms because they aren't doing all the bet the company M&A and litigation work that NYC firms are doing, except I guess for Latham, OMM, Quinn, and Gibson Dunn. It must be hard being a Thelen or Bingham and trying to get top work in a down economy when companies are watching their legal budgets more closely.
3:09 - How about Munger Tolles & Olson? That's a solid California firm.
Munger is so respected in litigation that I assume it still is doing well. Also, it's smaller so it's probably easier to manage overhead whereas huge firms like Pilsbury kill themselves by renting too much space and hiring excess support staff assuming they'll continue to grow. When the economy goes to hell then these factors really screw them over.
3:17(1) - Shouldn't firms like Thelen or Bingham do better in a weak economy b/c they are cheaper than the Wachtells and Cravaths of the world?
NY to 190k!
3:20,
Negative. The people who use Wachtell and Cravath generally feel less of a pinch than those who use Thelen or Bingham.
Not 3:17
Baker, Pilsbury?
Baker, Pilsbury?
aren't top nyc firms also far more dependent on the financial sector? those guys are not having a good time right now. is litigation carrying the nyc firms?
3:20: No, they won't. A rich company (i.e., one that already pays Cravath's bills) isn't going to transfer all of its business to a cheaper firm. Legal fees are a thin enough slice of a huge company's expenses that they'll stay with Cravath if they could already afford them.
Also it probably helps that the Cravaths and Davis Polks of the world are so freaking rich that they can weather a down economy better than a dump like Pillsbury which has struggled now for multiple years since it's last merger.
Pillsbury wasn't making enough dough!!
3:17(1) = OMM troll. Try to be more subtle, loser.
OMM's already done layoffs, too.
If you check Pillsbury's career section they only have like four job openings for lateral associates in all their offices COMBINED. That is pretty low for a large law firm.
3:37 - PURE. COMEDY. GOLD.
Where is the news on OMM layoffs? If that's true, I missed it. If even really top CA firms like OMM are doing layoffs then the market is really f-ked.
3:43 = 3:37
3:50 - guys at my high school used to be jealous of anonymous people on the internet all the time. It was no big deal.
3:45, I almost fell for that- "really top CA firms like OMM" . . . that was really slick.
Quit calling OMM top anything. It's TTT.
OMM layoffs:
http://abovethelaw.com/2008/02/nationwide_layoff_watch_omelve.php
http://abovethelaw.com/2008/01/nationwide_layoff_watch_whats.php
Below-Market bonuses:
http://abovethelaw.com/2007/12/associate_bonus_watch_omelveny_2.php
O'Melveny is a genuine TTT because they started doing layoffs back with TPW and Dechert- far before quasi-TTTs like PoGo, PH and Thelen did layoffs.
Thanks ATL! This is the much-needed-motivation i've been looking for.
I just got laid off.
- OMM Summer Associate
If OMM is a "top" CA firm, then I am Michael Jordan (Oh and btw I can't play b-ball).
WHO WILL MAKE A LIST 'O SHAME???
List 'O Shame = 'OMM
Bruce MacEwen has this list of firms that have done layoffs lately:
http://www.bmacewen.com/blog/archives/2008/06/a_modest_suggestion_re_as.html
OMM maybe TTT in NYC but in CA it's at least top six. You can't dispute that. At worst, Gibson, Quinn, Latham, Munger, and Irell are better.
PS. I don't work at OMM. They would never hire me even though I went to a top 14 because my LS grades suck. They have really fuked up hiring standards.
4:45- er, 3:45- no one buys your puffery.
Paul Hastings, MoFo, Orrick, and WSGR are better by far than broke and busted OMM.
at worst?
try: MTO, quinn, irell are all better.
at best, it's on par, but less selective and less sought after than, GDC and Latham.
PS- if OMM won't hire you, then GDC certainly won't, latham probably won't, and you don't have a shot in hell at irell or quinn. oh and even your children won't at MTO.
Why the hatred for OMM? I mean, there are dozens of large CA firms that are worse i.e. Paul Hastings, Heller, Bingham, Pillsbury, WSGR, Manatt, Jeffer Mangels, Allen Matkins, Fenwick, MorganLewis(Brobeck)....
Who needs coffee makers? They just cost money and take up space.
Sincerely,
Management--Pillsbury D.C.
4:59 - MORON ALERT! All of the firms you have mentioned do superior work (both litigation and transactional) and are generally far more prestigious than the shithole that is OMM.
Guys in my high school in California used to lay off whole associate classes at once when the economy soured. It was no big deal.
Any word on Orrick or DLA layoffs? Mofo?
Cravath would never have these problems. Cravath is the wolf and eats dumpsters like OMM for breakfast.
5:50 = A+ Wachtell troll, nicely done.
(For you see, he said that Cravath eats dumpsters for breakfast, a la Shooter McGavin)
The hatred for OMM comes exclusively from those who could not get jobs there.
UVA madras mafia is poppin collars all over OMM.
Pop Pop pop.
6:05, keep telling yourself that. It couldn't be because they resorted to layoffs recently when the other CA firms that have been listed have kept it together and avoided layoffs (at least from what we can tell).
For those who haven't yet figured out how to Google, here's a look at OMM's rankings for the 1st half of 2008 as far as its transactions dept
Mergers and Acquisitions Practice:
Category Ranked By 2008 1st Half Ranking
Hong Kong and China Announced Deals Deal Count 4th
United States Announced Deals Deal Count 6th
United States Announced Deals - Counsel to Principals Deal Count 6th
Taiwan Announced Deals Deal Count 6th
Canada Announced Deals Volume 13th
Global Announced Deals Deal Count 15th
Global Announced Deals - Counsel to Principals Deal Count 17th
Source: Bloomberg
Category Ranked By 2008 1st Half Ranking
Any U.S. Public Involvement Completed Number of Deals 5th
U.S. Target Completed Number of Deals 8th
Worldwide Completed Number of Deals 16th
Source: Thomson Reuters
Category Ranked By 2008 1st Half Ranking
United States (West) M&A Volume 5th
United States M&A Volume 7th
United States Buyouts Volume 7th
United States (Mid-Atlantic) M&A Volume 13th
United States (Mid-West) M&A Volume 14th
Global Buyouts Volume 18th
Global M&A Volume 19th
Source: Mergermarket
The Firm was also ranked 6th by MergerStat for the number of U.S. and U.S. Cross-Border M&A Transactions announced in the 1st half of 2008.
Corporate Finance/Capital Markets Practice
Category Ranked By 2008 1st Half Ranking
U.S. High Yield Issuer Advisers Volume 1st
U.S. High Yield Issuer Advisers Deal Count 5th
HKSE Equity IPO Manager Advisers Volume 5th
HKSE Equity IPO Manager Advisers Deal Count 5th
Asia ex-Japan DR Issuer Advisers Volume 8th
Asia ex-Japan Equity IPO Manager Advisers Volume 8th
U.S. Corporate Issuer Advisers Deal Count 8th
U.S. Corporate Issuer Advisers Volume 9th
Asia ex-Japan Equity IPO Manager Advisers Deal Count 9th
Asia ex-Japan DR Issuer Advisers Deal Count 10th
U.S. Investment Grade Issuer Advisers Deal Count 10th
U.S. Investment Grade Manager Advisers Deal Count 11th
U.S. Corporate Manager Advisers Deal Count 12th
Source: Bloomberg
OMM is also on AmLaw's A-list (16) among many other "lists" of prestige (once again, 5 mins of research is all that is necessary to prove that OMM is more prestigious than all the firms listed at 4:59)
LOL at 6:19. Paul Hastings hasn't resorted to layoffs? Wow, you should really visit ATL more often, or at least more than once a year.
Haha, I'm speechless.
Paul Hastings illegitimate baby = OMM
As a law student preparing to interview with many of these firms I have done a lot of research on them. After looking at salary, bonuses, prestige (judged only from the various rankings available) and strength of different practices groups, in my opinion there really is a big 3: Latham, OMM, Gibson and then there really is everyone else.
While I see the sophisticated analysis in such comments provided by 6:29 and others employing the letters TTT, I remain unconvinced by your arguments. Perhaps I'm wrong for relying on the things above rather than anonymous commenters on ATL, but I would take an offer from those 3 over anyone else in CA.
6:27, OK fine, I agree with you then. Paul Hastings is a terrible firm as well. No disagreement there.
6:22 -- I'm not sure that your list of rankings really makes OMM look so wonderful. If they are doing so well and still resort to layoffs, then......
Maybe that would have bearing on whether people want to ever work for them as well.
I'm in the LA office. No layoffs. None in SF either.
I'm in Century City. No layoffs. I have friends in Newport Beach (no layoffs) and in some of our asia offices including Hong Kong and Shanghai (no layoffs).
6:40 and 6:47 are you talking about pillsbury or OMM?
The culture at Pillsbury is the worst I've see .....couldn't wait to scramble out of there......any summer associates being laid off should consider themselves LUCKY.
6:47 here, OMM. I've never commented on here before, but I've noticed a lot of OMM bashing (even on this hyjacked thread on Pillsbury) and thought I'd comment on what I knew.
Yeah, I don't get all the OMM bashing, but such is life on ATL. As for Pillsbury layoffs, I have heard nothing that would confirm this rumor.
6:48 - details?
Can anybody confirm the Pillsbury layoffs?
At Pillsbury. If 15 people were laid off I have no idea who they were. This is just rumor, although I think all firms are cutting a bit based on underperformance. I also love all the comparisons about my law firm is better than yours. Very mature and insightful.
7:13, your mom can confirm the Pillsbury layoffs. All. Night. Long.
6:37, I think to those in the know, Munger is the most prestigious firm in CA. It's far and away the hardest one to get a job at (check the list of former S.Ct. clerks). There are a couple of other boutique-y places that I also consider more prestigious than the so-called "big 3" -- like Keker & Van Nest in SF (also a much tougher hire).
6:37 - have you heard of, um, MTO? Irell? Quinn (if you're a litigator and can stand their weird culture)?
I'm in the Reno office of OMM and everything here seems fine.
Everything should be fine if you live in Reno.
Not that they really count for much, but Dinsmore & Shohl (Cincinnati) just told their incoming 1st year associates not to arrive until January 1.
Just started at the Roanoke office of Cravath and moral appears to be jovial.
Cravath lawyers know how to spell "morale."
-- Cravath (Buffalo office)
Morale is also high at the office. Is just a really good place to be right now.
Headcount in Pillsbury SF is down only about 1-2 for associates in the last several months, so if they cut 15, they did it in the smaller CA offices, which seems a bit counterintuitive.
In the Provincetown office. Super gay here.
There is a Fried Frank shoved into the Cravath NYC office. The moral of this story is that moral is low but still better than the atmosphere at OMM and UVA.
Checking in from Munger in Dutch Harbor. Not much to report other than thank god I do not work at OMM.
You idiots in law school need to stop focusing on the selectivity or prestige of a law firm as a serious consideration in where you go. Once you get into the real world, you'll realize that large but not-as-selective firms (Latham, GDC, OMM) will likely be better for your future career than small but not-as-selective firms, simply because of the name recognition, which especially matters if you ever want to consider moving into a different market.
Whether there have been real "layoffs" at Pillsbury can be debated all day long. Lets just hope any quality associates who may have been booted land on their feet.
This just coming in ......... layoffs at Cravath's Reno office. Its awful. People are screaming.
7:03, people bashed OMM because an OMM troll got all sensitive about it. That's how it works.
Notice how no-one from CSM is reacting indignantly to the Reno/Buffalo jokes by posting deal tables or Chambers rankings or links to the firm website to prove that no such offices exist, or claiming that they're better than x, y, and z firms so the jokers should shut up. Ergo, the CSM jokes are harmless and not even that funny.
The OMM jokes obviously hit close to home for someone and that's why everyone is picking on them. Also, they're picking on OMM because it's TTT and not as good as other California firms. (Now see if you can resist replying . . . .)
Dow under 11,100. Thanks Bush!!
OMM Reno office has felt none of the ramifications of our economic slowdown ... I think we will even be making offers to all summers... Reno baby -- biggest little city ever.
Feel my Skadden Arps stomp on your puny OMM man hands, you silly little TTTboy. Good. Thats it. run home and cry to your hippie mother.
Well said, 12:50. If we keep this sharp criticism of OMM up pretty soon the firm's client's will leave it and they'll have to make more layoffs. Calling a firm a TTT is self-fulfilling- I learned that from the TTT TPW trolls.
Of course, if we were powerful senators instead of bored associates and instead of private law firms these were highly-regulated entities required to disclose details of their finances and operations to us, then perhaps by declaring that they're about to fail we'd be dooming them to takeover by the FDIC. But that's for another thread. (Thanks though, Chuck Schumer, for the IndyMac thing. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121607771017452513.html?mod=hps_us_at_glance_opinion )
Cravath - Skadden and Wachtell combine into the most fearsome enemy of the disenfranchised hamstrung myopic Sinecure who is plaguing our lives .... this hero ....this champion .... shall be called CRAVSKADWACH, The Death Gavel"
Nobody can confirm the Pillsbury layoffs because they didn't happen. We are being told the rumor is totally false, and layoffs certainly didn't happen in SF.
Wage Slaves.
No, wannabe wage slaves. Even worse.
Morale in the LA office is going strong. Everyone seems busy.
There have been layoffs at Pillsbury SF. My family member was layed off in January. He was given 3 months severance, and the layoff was characterized as a "resignation." That place is a sinking ship.
Guys in my high school got laid off from Pillsbury. It was no big deal.
YES! THE "GUYS IN MY HIGH SCHOOL JOKE." RIGHT ON, BROTHER!!!!!!!!
KILLS IT EVERYTIME!!!!!!!!