Skadden in Chicago: Too Popular For Its Own Good?
In a recent post about summer associate programs, we wrote:
[W]e've heard a rumor that summers in the Chicago office of a major national firm were told, early in the program, that there were only enough offers for two-thirds of them. It seems implausible, and right now it's unconfirmed; if you can confirm, please email us.
In the comments, speculation centered on the Chicago office of Skadden Arps. It's true that Skadden was the firm we heard the rumors about.
But the rumors themselves are NOT TRUE. We did some poking around and got to the bottom of the situation.
As is often the case, there are aspects of truth to the gossip. Skadden Chicago does have its largest summer class ever (perhaps due to the fact that the firm pays New York-level base salaries AND bonuses in the Windy City, well above Chicago market). Concern about the size of the summer class surfaced as early as February, over at Skadden Insider.
Based on our investigation, however, the rumors of a lower-than-usual offer rate are inaccurate. The Skadden summers have nothing to worry about.
Read more, below the fold.
Here are the rumors that we heard, via email (and also echoed in the comments). From one source:
"I heard from two separate sources, one of which heard from a summer at Skadden Chi-town, that out of the 80 or so Summers in the Chicago office, only 50 were going to get offers. Other than the two people I heard it from, I offer no other corroboration."
And another (but with a somewhat lower number of summers):
"The rumor going around the city is that Skadden's summer program in Chicago was vastly oversubscribed. Basically, they were aiming for around 40 summers and ended up with 70+ (in part because they pay the New York market rate + bonus, which is higher than almost all of the Chicago-based firms). Skadden's Chicago office has fewer than 200 attorneys total, so they obviously can't handle 70 first years.""Even with the customary clerks, declines, etc., they're still looking at more first years than they know what to do with. I don't think Skadden in Chicago has been particularly slow (at least not any slower than anyone else), but people have been interested to see how they handle their summer class."
Sounds worrisome, right? But here are the facts, obtained from our sources at Skadden in Chicago:
1. The Skadden - Chicago summer class does not contain "70 or 80" summers. The actual number is 59. Two of the 59 are returning 3Ls who will be clerking in the coming year, which takes the number down to 57. Of the 57, 8 are splitting; they may or may not go to the Chicago office.
2. The firm is planning to make offers to summer associates in the ordinary course, evaluating them according to the usual standards. In other words, it's "business as usual" (read: you'll get an offer, if you have a pulse and don't jump into Lake Michigan; and even then, you'll probably still get a cold offer).
3. This year's summer class is larger than last year's class of 36. It's also the largest class in the office's history. But the growth is the result of a deliberate decision on the part of firm management to have a bigger class.
4. The decision to hire a larger class was based in part on work levels. "We're very happy with the summer class we have," said our Skadden source. "We are just humming along and very busy. Our summers have been involved in some of the major deals we've had in the office."
Of Thompson's top 10 deals (PDF), three are being handled out of Skadden - Chicago. So right now there is plenty of work to go around.
5. In addition, the bringing on of a bigger class reflects the fact that the firm is moving into new quarters next year (summer 2009). The new space will have room for all of the full-time attorneys -- roughly 200, going up to 220-225 or so with the arrival of the fall 2008 class -- and then some.
6. The office's managing partner, Wayne Whalen, reassured the summers earlier in the program that there was room enough for all of them, that offers would be given out in the ordinary course (read: to all or almost all summers), etc.
7. But even that reassurance should not be interpreted defensively, or in a "methinks the partner doth protest too much" manner.
"Wayne makes an opening speech," said one Skadden Chicago source. "He gives the same speech every year, and every year he reassures everyone. Summers by their nature are always nervous until they get their offers. His speech [this year] was the same [as in past years]."
So relax, Skadden summers in Chicago! Your future is secure.
Now go out and have some fun. Why not take a page from the Kirkland & Ellis playbook, go on a booze cruise, and get decked by a female townie?
Enjoy the rest of the summer!
P.S. If you haven't done so already, feel free to take our reader survey about summer associate offer rates, which is still open.
Summer in Chicago [Skadden Insider]
Earlier: Now Is the Summer of Their Discontent: Bad Times for Summer Associates?
Associate Life Survey: Offers For All The Summers?
(77) Comments
poopin' in a hat
what is this skadden firm i keep reading about?
First
by First Again
Word on the street is that Shearman sent an email out to all summers saying they wouldn't be getting offers until 2 weeks after they left.
I smell no offers!
Skadden Omaha is in real trouble now.
Skadden = TTT?
2:24 - That is standard at many firms. I think that even Wachtell does not give offers until September or something like that.
boo hoo
What rank of out of Northwestern for Skadden? Out of UChicago?
HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION
With the bar less than two weeks away, AtL hits are down. Solution: thread s involving (i) summers, (ii) layoffs/no-offers, or a (iii) major firm. Or, all three.
Meatgrinder or TTT comments to commence in, 1, 2, 3...
Anyone who suggests that Skadden is a TTT, should be banned immediately and sent to OMM, McK, SNR etc etc to understand what a real TTT is. Skadden is the diametric opposite of a TTT. For realz.
yes whats this skadden place being discussed here? did anyone ever hear of them? oh right i know them from the barbie case where quinn emanuel just beat them
I was at a firm in NY last summer and there was a rumor that 5 summers would not get offers due to an unusually large class size. The rumors were denied by the hiring committee and other people in the firm. But when it came down to it, there were 5 summers who did not receive offers. I am sure there are plenty of firms where this rumor is accurate and quite telling.
I have good authority that white & case NY is actually going to no-offer anywhere up to 10% of its SAs. Don't know if this will take the form of cold-offers or not.
White and Case, Shearman and Cravath all have summer classes that are way too big.
2:48: were they bad associates? Why didn't they receive offers? Was it obvious that they were not up to snuff with everyone else, or did you think that it was a close race?
Skadden is doing all those summers a favor by not giving them an offer, that place blows...
Guys at my high school used to not get offers from Skadden all the time.
It was no big deal.
Which Skadden offices are not TTTs?
Doesn't anyone else look back to his SA experience and think "Thank God the firm no-offered that guy"? The fact that a few summers anywhere don't get offers is meaningless. Now, when the percentage goes further up (10%+), that's when things get interesting...
2:50 - makes sense as this is their biggest sa class - 113 associates.
Skadden out of Chicago - Must be in the top 90%.
Skadden = Off my OCI bid list
when is skadden going to let their incoming first years know in which departments they are going to be place? word is they have not been told where they will be placed.
2:30: depends on office. out of NU or Chi, it's best to be in the top half + LR if you can.
I would imagine a fair amount of people who do not receive an offer are those who split their summer, really liked the first firm and either blatantly don't try at the second firm, or just have no motivation to do well.
lol @ 3:13
2:56: They were all pretty much good workers that people seemed to like. Just came down to a pure numbers game and they had to pick people not to hire. The lying was a joke though. They could have at least been up front about it. Rumors are rarely just rumors.
No juicy summer associate stories this year? I'm disappointed. I guess that when the market tanks, the stories do as well.
Alston & Bird in Atlanta has way over-hired in its summer class. Expect large non-offers, but probably many cold non-offers to hide the facts from the kids.
I've heard some of the usual stories about inter-office romances between summers and midlevels and the like. I'm sure those people will regret that decision when offers are not extended. Don't know that it shows good judgment.
Several years ago, when I interviewed with Skadden Chi-town for a summer spot, I was told that there would not be enough spots for offers because "we like to throw all the summers together and let them fight it out to see who rises to the top. We only want the sharks" (whatever a "shark" is). That was right before, in response to my typical bullshit question about "firm culture" and "work-life balance," the interviewer launched into a diatribe about how there are a lot of people at Skadden who agree with him that you should be married to the firm because it pays the bills rather than married to a woman (or man) because she just creates them. I thanked him for his time and happily moved along to my next more family friendly interview.
What is this Chicago place everyone keeps referring to? Is this an international office?
I wonder if we'll just see a dramatic increase in cold offers, or, actual no offers...
Is there anyone on this board that really hasn't heard of Skadden? Really?
I've heard of "Skat-man." Does that count?
Beee-ba-ba-badap-bo. Ba-ba-badabo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy9bwAsmyy0
Are there more cold offers coming out of Chicago than Los Angeles?
Definitely don't need LR at UChi for Skadden (including their NY office)
Here's what ATL has become:
1st comes some worthless story about some small firms *might* merge. Any new news on Heller, oh wait, no one cares...
2nd some 1L will eventually start calling some firm, some thing, some body or some school TTT; even though they don't know what it stands for and don't remember the bitter and ugly (but also fun) AutoAdmit days.
Maybe if the stories were actually relevant (or juicier) people would not stoop down to calling Skadden "TTT." Calling Skadden TTT is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Let's reserve the TTT moniker for Pace, NYLS, Suffolk, etc.
you forgot this now-essential ATL comment:
"Guys at my high school got no-offered at Skadden. It was no big deal."
"It seems implausible, and right now it's unconfirmed"
HA HA HA HA!!!! Now ATL is making judgment calls as to what is and is not plausible? When has plausibility EVER restrained ATL!?
you forgot this now-essential ATL comment:
"Guys at my high school got no-offered at Skadden. It was no big deal."
--Finally, someone figured out this idiot was stupid. Good job, 5:27.
No good hook up stories this year yet. I did hear one summer throwing up in the bathroom after tearing it up the night before.
Can a DePaul grad get a job at this Skaden place? It sounds like a wonderful place to work!
5:02 = TTT
Someone please define what a "cold offer" is.
Cold offer:
The firm tells you that you have an offer, but lets you know they don't want you to take it. Or they make you an offer for their office in Islamabad. This way if someone else asks you whether they made you an offer, you can honestly say "yes," but the reality is basically the opposite.
just so i am clear - the stated reason for this bloated class is the pay/boni differential between this firm and the local chicago shops....so this differential did not exist until last year?
weird....
Is this Skadden even a real law firm? I have not seen any commercials for it on TV.
Cravath associates make fun of Skaddenn associates all the time. Cavath junior associates even act with disdain towards senior Skadden partners. Its just the natural order of things.
what is a TTT
Skadden is ranked # 4 on the Vault Top 100 Most Prestigious Firm. It's a great firm.
200 full time lawyers, 70 summers....sounds like a firm just trying to capitalize on a booming deal economy!
No need to worry about a thing....especially the kent, loyala, northwestern and other TTT summers...
Comment 33,
I don't know what makes you a bigger douche-bag. Your use of the term "Chi-town" in your post, or your obvious invention of:
"We like to throw all the summers together and let them fight it out to see who rises to the top. We only want the sharks" (whatever a "shark" is)."
That sounds like something an idiot at a Cubs game would say, but I don't belive for a second it came from an associate's mouth in any serious way.
11:11: TTT = Third-tier toilet
Along the lines of comment 41, can someone please explain why "poopin' in a hat" has to be included on every thread, too?
Don't feed the anti-Skadden trolls. They're just taking a breather from beating on Paul Hastings, TPW, OMM, Heller, and Thelen.
They'll get tired and try another firm (Weil?) if you ignore them.
People who usurp the name Cravath for ATL posts are per se d-bags. Just 'fess up and say where you're really from. Mayer Brown doesn't sound so tough though, does it?
I'm from Cravath and first of all i just want to let everyone know that we are so much cooler than people give us credit for and most people either know it or are too jealous to admit it. Cravath is the best firm ever. we piss on everyone else, ESPECIALLY skadden because they think just because of their 'work hard, play hard'-i-expense-magnum-bottles-of-cristal bullshit mentality that they can even be considered within our prestigious league. go work for a real firm you underachieving posers.
Cravath certainly pisses all over the cheap ass loafers of Skadden, Latham and Paul Hastings.
I hear only offers for 50% of the class - 3 weeks after the end of the summer.
I hear only offers for 50% of the class - 3 weeks after the end of the summer.
I hear only offers for 50% of the class - 3 weeks after the end of the summer.
I hear only offers for 50% of the class - 3 weeks after the end of the summer.
Lat - focus on PHJW - rumor within the firm is that there will be a major blood bath at the end of the summer, including partner de-equitizations. Stay tuned.
Lat - focus on PHJW - rumor within the firm is that there will be a major blood bath at the end of the summer, including partner de-equitizations. Stay tuned.
Lat - focus on PHJW - rumor within the firm is that there will be a major blood bath at the end of the summer, including partner de-equitizations. Stay tuned.
dude, this is shoddy conclusion drawing by ATL. planned expansion my elbow. equally plausible that skadden just didn't realize how much other firms were dialing back on hiring summers, and then ended up w. a ton it couldn't handle. of course the firm isn't going to admit it up front. possibly the fact that atl is drawing attention to it now may help change skadden's course. there's a reason skadden has a rep as being heartless.
that this blog is essentially ignoring the massive overhiring of summers at dozens of firms (massive = 100% plus increases over summer of 2007) is puzzling...and reduces the value of this site as a place for relevant info as well as gossip.
Skadden doesn't have to no-offer people. They just make everyone's life so miserable that after 2 or 3 years only a handful of these summers will be left.
8:10: please elaborate. Is this is just a few offices or across the board? How do partner de-equitizations work if all partners at PHJW are equity?
11:24 - did you not read that the Chicago office is handling 3 of the largest deals this year? there has been more than enough work to go around.
Solution to SASMF's woes:
No-offer all the women SAs. Women shouldn't be lawyers anyway. Get back to nursing.
Skadden corporate pretty much rocks.
Skadden litigation are pretty much chumps.
69 - Skadden is moving into significantly larger and more efficient space by the ned of next year. Search for real estate news on globest.com or chicagobusiness.com. There ought to be some news story confirming this. So unless they plan on making a large amount of lateral hires (a possibility, and much juicier story), Lat's conclusion seems sound.
A few DePaul kids get offers at Skadden Chicago every year -- follow your dreams!