The Asia Chronicles: A Look at Current Hiring Trends
[Disclosure: This post is authored not by the Asia Corporate Lawyers, but by Evan Jowers and Robert Kinney of Kinney Recruiting -- sponsor of the Asia Chronicles, and an ATL advertiser. Kinney has made more placements of U.S. associates and partners in Asia than any other firm in the past two years. You can reach them by email at asia at kinneyrecruiting dot com.]
On Monday we discussed some positive trends in M&A in Asia, notwithstanding the turmoil in credit markets and overall economic downturn globally. Today, we discuss very briefly some of the lateral hiring trends we have been seeing in Asia recently and in '08 in general.
We have not seen an overall reduction in hiring of U.S. associates in Asia, but firms have been much more selective than in '07. This is for a variety of reasons. Some notable U.S. and British firms in Asia are hiring at a significantly slower clip than in '07, but this unfortunate trend is being balanced out by other peer firms hiring significantly more than in '07. There are a number of firms in heavy expansion mode, with several top U.S. firms in Hong Kong / China, for example, that will easily double the size of their offices in '08. Some U.S. firms in Asia have very aggressive medium-term (5-6 year) expansion plans to have 100+ attorney offices. Interestingly, and perhaps surprisingly to readers, some of the most urgent needs still happen to be for mid-level to senior U.S. securities associates, despite the slower pace of capital-markets deal flow coming in.
It is important to note that in '08, there are as much as three to four times as many U.S. associate candidates on the market for Asia positions, compared to '07. Firms can afford to be a lot more selective and also can take their time with hiring decisions, much more than was the case in the frenzied hiring environment in Asia in '07. While we are seeing the same pace of hiring in the Asia markets in '08 that we saw in '07, it has become a more difficult market to break into for some U.S. associates than was the case in '07.
Read more, after the jump.
Language skills have become more important in hiring decisions this year, but firms need their new associate hires to have native-level English skills just as much as they need native-level Mandarin or other Asian language skills. In China, the documentation on most deals continues to be in English, but much of the negotiations and other communication is in Mandarin when a Chinese public company is involved. Because many native Mandarin-speaking junior to mid-level associates cannot draft at a very high level in English, English-only associates will continue to be hired for firms' China practices. They will also continue to be hired at high rate for firms' Pan Asia practices.
In 2008 we are seeing a trend that emphasizes hiring attorneys with J.D.s and native Mandarin language ability, relative to native English speaking J.D.s, by the top end firms in Hong Kong / China. In general, the top U.S. firms in Asia, as well as U.S. practice groups at British firms in Asia, are continuing to seek U.S. J.D.s over other associate candidates and language skills and other impressive background will not usually impress firms if sans J.D. In '08, U.S. and British firms in Asia have become more cautious when hiring junior native Mandarin speaking associates who have no J.D. The reluctance to hire comes from a perceived lack of quality of hires at NYC firms during the NYC associate hiring boom of '07. Many LL.M.'s were hired during that frenzy before they were prepared to handle a full-fledged associate role at a major U.S. law firm. In '08, only the most impressive junior associates with only U.S. LL.Ms are able to make the true lateral move to associate position at a top U.S. practice in Asia.
As noted, a number of U.S. firms in Asia hired less than ideal candidates at the very junior level in '07 due to the shortage of candidates. In '08, there are many more solid U.S. associate candidates on the market in Asia (although still a severe shortage of truly bilingual solid U.S. associate candidates). Firms are taking the opportunity to make more thoughtful and selective hiring decisions. A lot of junior U.S. associates, including class of '07s, are being hired in Asia this summer, but a larger proportion of U.S. associate hires this year are mid-level and senior than was the case in '07.
Practices in demand for U.S. associate hires in Asia continue to be M&A, private equity downstream (which is very M&A related), and cap markets. In less demand, but still an urgent U.S. associate need at some firms, are banking & finance, structured finance, fund formation, real estate and energy. U.S. associates continue to be in demand in not only Hong Kong / China, but also Japan and Singapore as well. Languages in demand are not only Mandarin, but also Korean, Japanese and Hindi. (Korea and India practices are in major growth mode at some top firms, with Korea practices usually based in Hong Kong or Tokyo and India practices usually based in Hong Kong or Singapore.)
Please feel free to suggest new topics of interest in the comments area. We'll keep an eye out.
* * * * *
The Asia Chronicles are sponsored by Kinney Recruiting. You can reach them by email at asia at kinneyrecruiting dot com.
(39) Comments
Asia Chronicles = sack of turds.
Stop posting ASAP.
How is the Chinese food in China?
I hate infomercials
On a related topic, can we have an open thread or post about practicing in Israel with a JD? I know I'm probably not the only guy who's interested in living there, and my research efforts haven't amounted to much. I speak fluent Hebrew.
Does Kinney Recruiting provide applicants with US Olympic Team - style facemasks for their trips to China?
I have a feeling that a lot of CWT associates that were laid off yesterday will want to have a crash course in Chinese -- possibly six months or less?
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202423395080
-Lat get on this .. lawyer of the day!
I respect the fact that Lat is trying to turn ATL into a (more?) profitable venture. But I have to admit, these Kinney recruiting posts are getting ridiculous. Limit Kinney to two posts per month.
At least we can comment again. Evan, do you see hiring staying steady over the next 5 years? Also, for Japan, where do firms draw the line for language fluency? Does the JLPT Level 1 cut it, or does one have to be above and beyond that?
Leave Kinney Recruiting alone, they placed me and my friends at elite firms throughout the world.
-Evan Jowers
Slow day today, Lat? It's almost noon and we haven't had a single substantive post (except the docket). If you're moving or something, get someone to fill in.
What's going on in Dubai? Job market? Practice areas? (I hear the market there is more focused on fund formation). Any language skills necessary?
What's going on in Dubai? Job market? Practice areas? (I hear the market there is more focused on fund formation). Any language skills necessary?
Asia Chronicles would be more interesting if there were more coverage of WGWAG, and also reverse-WGWAG.
need for (US) tax people?
How about a post called the Middle East Chronicles and telling us what it takes to work in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Doha, Manama, and Kuwait City?
The irony is that Jowers is almost certainly a better writer than all of the ATL Idol contestants.
Evan, what firms have strong India practices?
. . . or, as they call it in China, "food"
Almost none of the lawyers in MENA that I know have professional-level Arabic skills. It's an incredibly difficult language to learn and most Arab businesspeople in the Gulf speak English fluently anyway.
The DIFC is bringing in a lot of work to Dubai and there's a lot of liquidity in the region anyway, so projects, financing, etc are steady. Sharia-compliant financing is busy, too.
Vaguely useful post in this series. That's a first.
These WGWAGs are major twats.
i like these posts b/c you learn something. please expand to other areas like dubai.
Jagshemash! I would like much you to tell me of opportunities for US of A lawyers in Kazakhstan.
May your vagine hang like a sleeve of wizard!
What about job opportunities in this place I've heard of in whispers: New Jersey.
I hear that it is a strange and forbidding land...
Evan here. Because of all the interest in Dubai in these comments and in comments after other Asia Chronicles posts, we will have a post on Dubai soon. Thanks for the input.
Re practice in Israel: With a JD, it takes one year of mandatory internship in Israeli law firm / court / DA and sitting for a bar exam (in Hebrew, on israeli law - mainly procedure: civil, criminal, bankruptcy) if you have at least 5 years since you have been admitted in the US.
In terms of $$$, it is 3-4 times less that in the US, though.
Re practice in Israel: With a JD, it takes one year of mandatory internship in Israeli law firm / court / DA and sitting for a bar exam (in Hebrew, on israeli law - mainly procedure: civil, criminal, bankruptcy) if you have at least 5 years since you have been admitted in the US.
In terms of $$$, it is 3-4 times less that in the US, though.
11.39, Evan here. Yes, the comments were turned off by mistake for the first 5 or so hours after Monday's post. In Tokyo, there are some US firms that are going to always hire solid US associates with English only ability. I do think that it can be difficult in Tokyo, more so than in HK, to lateral there from US as mid -level to senior associate at the top Wall St. firms without Japanese fluency. It is hard for me to generalize though for the entire US and British firm market there re how much Japanese is needed. The degree of Japanese skills needed, if any, vary from firm to firm, in general, and also by the particular opening at issue. If you land in Tokyo and are not completely fluent in Japanese, then even though your degree of fluency may not be relevant for drafting and other technical parts of your practice, it is of course a very nice bonus to be able to converse in Japanese with clients, when need be. Feel free to contact me any time for more specifics on this subject.
12.10, Evan here. Unfortunately, there is really no need for US tax associates in Asia. that could change in future, but for now most of the tax work for Asia deals is done out of NYC or other offices, or handled by local firms. Every now and then a US firm in Asia will ask me to find them a US tax associate, but each time they want someone who already has experience in the Asia markets and I have not had much luck finding such persons. The major accounting and consulting firms are more realistic landing spots for you in Asia at this point, relative to law firms. Hopefully that will change in the future. I was a big firm tax attorney in my associate days as well and also had trouble finding any interesting overseas spot.
11.39, Evan here. It is of course difficult to predict 5 years out. In general though, I firmly believe that there will be a major expansion in the number of US associates working in Asia over the next 5 years. However, I don't know if it will always be as easy as it was in '07 for a US associate to make the move to Hong Kong, in particular. When the US markets finally pick up and the credit crisis finally ends, you will see more pressure on US and British firms to hire laterals because they will not be able to so easily bring over their own attorneys on secondments or internal permanent moves (as has been the case at some firms in '08). But even in this current market, with much more internal moves than last year, US and British firms in Asia are still hiring as many laterals as they did last year, in the market as a whole (although they are more seletive and deliberate, due to the number of candidates on market vastly increasing, and their needs not being as urgent across the board as last year).
12.22, Evan here. I am probably leaving a few deserving firms' India practices out on spur of the moment, but I would list the following to consider: Linklaters, Allen & Overy, White & Case, Cleary, Davis Polk, Clifford Chance, Jones Day, Herbert Smith, Freshfields, Latham, Milbank, V&E., Shearman, Sidley. Linklaters is arguably the best India practice and that practice is run out of their Singapore office. India is obviously going to be a very important market for firms as India opens up to foreign firms. I see a lot of hiring needs now for firms India practices in particular and Pan Asia practices in general. It is relatively easy for an English only solid US associate candidate to land in an India or Pan Asia practice, compared to a China practice, because very few native Indians are graduating with US JDs.
Hi Even -
Can you provide more information about life-work balance in an Asian office, particularly Beijing and Hong Kong? I heard quite a lot from some friends over there complaining about the grueling Asian working culture.
I know some guys doing IPOs in HK have long hours, but how about other practices, like M&A? Are you expected to work late Friday night or whole Sunday?
Hi 32, not Evan but I'm an associate at the office of a US firm in HK. Work culture here is intense in all practice areas. Even non-legal jobs in HK are expected 6 days a week, and there is every expectation from clients and partners that associates make yourself available at all times--late nights, weekends, holidays, etc., personal plans notwithstanding. I worked in NY before coming to HK and they drive associates much harder here. Sorry but that's the ugly truth.
Also, don't expect to get much in the way of training, as everybody is so overloaded here that nobody seems to be willing to sacrifice 20 minutes to explain to you what you're supposed to do. There are advantages to living in HK, but after 18 months here, I wouldn't recommend it if you're reasonably happy where you are.
many other British firms have decent India practice and as many as 10 of them are recruiting directly from India now ie. students from Indian National law schools. these include Herbert Smith, Simmons and Simmons, SJ Berwin and Lovells besides the usual magic circle firms. US firms still don't hire Indian students directly even for their much publicized India practices carried from Singapore or Hongkong.
33 - Thanks! I am wondering what is the underlying reason for the ridiculous working hours in HK? As far as I know, it has been like this for many many years - apparently if they can not use the excuse that they are temporarily short of hands. If the are really are, they should recruit more.
Is it because the notorious asian working culture? It is said that Asians do not really care about life qualities, and even deem overwork as a virtue.
The reason for my question obviously is to know whether or not this situation would improve in the coming years.
Anyone to respond?
5.38pm, Evan here. I find that the hours are more sporadic in HK / China than is the case in NYC, but at the end of the day you will likely bill a little less than you would in a busy NYC year (of course, this year is not a busy NYC year, so you would bill more in Asia). But that is really generalizing things quite a bit. Some firms have been caught more understaffed than others in Asia in the past two years. When understaffed at a small overseas office, there is not much partners can do to get more help, except to make lateral hires and such hires can take as much as 6 months to happen. Even in firms that are staffed just fine, it is more common than in NYC for there to be extremely busy months and not so busy months, to be more on a roller coaster, rather than a steady flow. This is not unusual in any busy small overseas office. I do find that my associate friends in Asia and others I have placed there do not feel pressure to be in the office late and on weekends during the not busy times. The many associates in Asia I know have time for weekend getaways and so forth, and have some very light months, but sometimes are extremely busy, even relative to NYC standards, for several weeks at a time. I don't think the culture of working 6 days a week in Asia applies to US practices per se, but of course, just like in NYC and other major markets, you will be working some weekends and have some 7 day work weeks. Moving from NYC to HK or other Asia markets is not going to cut down your hours. It can be a lifestyle move, in that you can experience another part of the world or return home, depending on your background, but the billable hours will not change significantly.
Hi again #35,
I would say that there are a number of reasons that the work hours are so bad here in HK. Culture definitely plays a role in several ways. There is not the same demarcation between personal life and worklife here as in the US, and lawyers are expected to scrap personal life at partners' and clients' whim. Just as a practical example, you are REQUIRED to provide your personal cell phone number on working group lists. When a client cannot reach you on your office phone, rather than leaving a voicemail or sending an email, they will immediately call your cellphone. I would say that it's not a problem of understaffing, but of a culture that doesn't ever leave work behind and of partners who are at best willing accomplices.
Also, I would disagree with Evan about pace here. Even in a busy year like last year, attorneys in our office on average billed several hundred more hours than the average billing rate for attorneys in the next busiest office. And my attorney friends all say pretty much the same thing. Again, there are some great things about living here, but work demands can be extreme.
12.13am, Evan here. I would agree that in '07 most US associates in HK / China were billing higher than NYC. But this is a one year comparison. If you were to talk to US associates who have worked in HK / China in '06, '05, '04, '03 and so on, you would see that the numbers would be a bit lower than NYC at the same time. Why the high hours from mid '06 through '07? Many top US firms in HK / China became severely understaffed due to being caught by surprise by amount of increased deal flow coming in. Some firms were more understaffed than others. Also, in '06 and '07 there were not enough solid US associate candidates on the market in HK / China and it was taking firms sometimes months to hire a new associate, when they may have needed four new associates during that time. Furthering the problem is that the most understaffed firms were seeing associate defections due to being more overworked than other firms in town. But '07 is not the be all end all of trying to figure out comparison of hours between HK / China and NYC. Actually, '07 may have helped things because some top US firms have a strategy of being a bit overstaffed now in HK / China, so that they can better avoid the serious understaffing problem that happened in '07. Most US associates in HK / China have been hired during the hiring explosion that has happened since mid to late '06, and many of the US associates in HK / China hired in past two years are junior. So an informal survey of persons falling in this group of asssociates is not indicative of the hours comparison between HK / China and NYC. With that said, you should be prepared to work very hard if you lateral from US to Asia. It can be a very hectic pace there and, although the deal flow can be more sporadic than even flow, when compared to NYC, during the more busy times in Asia offices, it is typical to work harder than you may have worked before in NYC for a month or two at a time. But there are also down times where you might not be so busy for a few weeks or more. I see this from the many persons I have placed out there, as well as from my friends out there.
I live in HK and came from NY. I currently work in U.S. Securities. The work is much more up-and-down than it is in NY. The busy times are much busier (pretty much all of my deals have been described as being on a "tight timetable") and the slow times are much slower. You will work much more intensely than you have worked in NY for about 2 months at a time, and then you'll have a week or two of relative slowness until you get staffed on something crazy again.
When I first arrived in HK, I was working for 3 months straight, with the odd Sunday off. I didn't get a full weekend off until about 12 weeks in.
It's true that the working group expects you to give them your personal numbers, and expect them to be used. I once had a client call me on my personal mobile on a SATURDAY MORNING while I was getting cable installed (which, in HK, requires very noisy drilling since the walls are concrete in most apartments). The client thought nothing of the fact that he called me at a rather early hour (for a weekend) or that there was an awful drilling noise in the background.
At least twice a week I would stay until 2 AM. Many Saturdays have been ruined because I was at the office until well past midnight getting the first draft of a prospectus out to the working group. While closing a deal not too long ago, I stayed in the office from 9 AM until 6 AM the next day, and was expected to be in the office again by 11 AM. Because you're dealing with people all over the globe, time differences can be a headache. On this transaction involving a Canadian issuer (listing on the Toronto stock exchange), pricing took place at 4:30 PM Canada Time, which was 4:30 AM HK time. I had to be in the office at around 4:00 AM HK time that day. Also, Indian deals mean longer days. India is 2.5 hours behind HK so that has to be factored into your time at the office (in terms of when Indian clients get documents back to you).
The experience is different than in NY because out here you don't get stuck in data rooms doing diligence or data room creation for 14 hours a day, 6 days a week for about 6 weeks. You'll be given real responsibility and real work (i.e. drafting) right away. The bad news is that you will often find yourself doing junior-associate work (proofreading 200-page prospectuses) well into your mid-level years.
Another difference is in expectations of face time. In NY, I was ENCOURAGED by PARTNERS to roll in at 10:30 or later if I had no work on, because the firm will take all they can from you during the busy times (one well-regarded senior associate even told me he comes in as late as noon when he's not busy). Partners here in HK have flat-out told associates here to come in early (e.g. 9 AM) even if they have no work on. According to the partners, the associates are supposed to be reading training materials, taking courses on PLI and otherwise honing their skill set if they're not busy.