Update: Thacher Proffitt Denies Dissolution
Earlier today, we passed along a rumor — which, we noted, was only a rumor — that Thacher Proffitt & Wood might close its doors by the end of the year, if its fortunes don’t improve.
We gave TPW the opportunity to comment before we posted; they did not avail themselves of the opportunity (even though they have responded in the past to some of our inquiries). But about half an hour ago, managing partner Paul Tvetenstrand commented internally, via email:
From: Tvetenstrand, Paul D.
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 4:30 PM
To: All TPW Offices
Subject: Above The LawAll, I feel compelled to drop you this short note to let you know that the statement on the web site “Above the Law” that we are dissolving is untrue. Like many firms in this unusual market we have had to take steps to adjust to the credit crisis. From where we stand, our business is improving and our practices are adjusting to the changing market. We are optimistic about the future and look forward to working together for many years to come. Paul
So that’s the firm’s comment on that. We’ll append an update to our original post linking to Mr. Tvetenstrand’s statement.
P.S. For the record, please note that our prior post did not declare that the firm was definitely dissolving. It merely raised the possibility, quoting a tipster who said that “if the situation gets worse, the firm will shut down by the end of the year.” Hopefully the situation will stabilize, or get better.
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Comments
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DISSOLVE!
(first)
where would one lateral from TPW? DUI defense?
Not sure about the associates, but partners leaving TPW have done just fine for themselves:
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/06/11/a-lawyer-hemorrhage-at-thacher-proffitt-ten-partners-walk/
What is the legal significance of TPW's denial. In other words, can they be held liable in any way if they actually do wind up dissolving?
TTThacher Proffitt
Thatcher is not just a TTT, it is a TTTT, aka Truly Third Tier Toilet.
That e-mail reminds me of when Ken Lay was telling Enron shareholders to keep buying.
5:21--zing!
5:21(1) - truer words have NEVER been said on this website.
TTThacher unProffittable
Reminds me of when TPW was telling ATL there would be no layoffs.
Lat, congratulations. This just shows how much power you have. Making managing partners issue firmwide memos on posting of mere rumors.
Partners everywhere are in shock and awe of your amazing powers.
You're the man!
Whattaman Whattaman What a mighty good MAN = DAVID "LATMAN" LAT.
Simpson is dissolving?
No way.
un-ProfiTTT-able
What the hell is TTT?
Paul is a liar. A horrible liar.
The internet, fortunately, makes it more obvious to outsiders. He has always told associates 'all is well' and 'no layoffs' amazingly close to right before the firings occur. Google news 'Thacher Proffitt' and see him tell UK based legal websites that all is fine this June right before more layoffs and defections in July. He gave very rosy projections June 07 as well. He offered Shermanesque 'no layoffs' comments right before the late summer and November layoffs.
I can't even begin to detail the lies this guy has told and the lack of loyalty he has to the firm/partners/associates and his screwing over of summers and incoming first years.
He'll soon have plenty of time to sip overpriced scotch on his porch.
Paul T is TTT for sure.
Lat,
Your actions are somewhat similar to the "market manipulation through rumor-mongering" stories hitting the pages of several respectable papers. While we are not dealing with public companies and short sellers, these so-called "rumors" may still become the feared, self-fulfilling prophecy.
As a rumor-monger, you *may* be manipulating the firm's business environment, creating a scenario where clients are reluctant to bring business to the firm due to the rampant rumors of dissolution. Of course, these rumors could be completely false at the time of publication, but may become self-fulfilling prophecies within weeks due to the resulting loss of business.
I suppose you don't care; you are not profiting from the rumor-mongering like the short sellers. Or are you? How many more hits do you receive when you use the word dissolution? Or are you the pawn of competing firms -- the gullible one that spreads the rumors for the benefit of competing firms?
6:18, ATL is hardly the NYT or the WSJ. It's a little gossip blog.
You can't expect Lat to kill rumors he hears because a firm might not like it. Otherwise ATL = Firm Press Releases.
Finally, re: TPW, Lat clearly has sources on the inside (like whoever gave him this email). These are not rumors from rival firms.
Paul Tvetenstrand is a jerk. Even accounting for his role as managing partner, his book of business is deader than a doornail. His management and people skills suck beyond compare.
loser loser loser loser
Damn libel much 6:29?
6:18 --
You could have used those 5 minutes to update your resume.
I'd just loooove to know if 6:18 came from a TPW IP address... Odds, anyone?
6:18,
Why don't you shut the f*&k up?
We all have Lat to thank for the fact that 1st year associate salaries raised in a matter of months from $135k, to $145k, to 160k. As one firm raised base pay, lat posted about it, associates at other firms bitched internally and on this site, and we all benefited from higher salaries.
We also all have Lat' to thank for the generosity we law firm cogs felt last year at bonus time when -- due to the transparancy of bonus decisions (i.e., lat's real-time postings) -- firms felt compelled to give very high (often underservingly high) bonuses.
In some cases, if I recall, firms supplemented their original bonus decisions with a second round of special bonuses. For at least one firm that missed the ball initially, it recalculated bonuses and gave out more $$$ across the board.
So does lat pass along rumors? certainly... but shut the f%^k up with your complaining, because i think he is to thank for the fact that i make a shit load more money than i am worth.
bitch-ass bitch!
Whoever forwarded this internal email probably violated firm policy.
Dear 9:20 pm,
To quote myself, "shut the f*&k up .... bitch-ass bitch!"\
Sincerely,
9:18 pm
Bravo, 918.
9:18, that is false. There were salary increases before abovethelaw came along. Once Simpson raised, other firms were going to follow. Moreover, there are other sites (not nearly as popular) that track subjects such as associate salaries.
I agree that he did bring more transparency to firm bonuses, which unlike salaries, are far less reported. But lets not act like summer associate events and high salaries did not exist before Lat. The economy, the fact that associate salaries hadn't increased in five years, and the lure of private equity and hedge funds had more to do with firms increasing starting salaries from 125 to 145 and then 160.
As for Lat's posting on Thacher Proffitt, it really depends if he has a credible source or not. This gossip can be very hurtful to the firm's bottom line. If it is true or Lat had good reason to believe the information he was receiving was accurate, more power to him. If not, he should issue an apology.
6:18,
Go dissolve yourself.
perpetual, self-induced panic. i mean, it's all fun and games when atl's promoting transparency in salary/bonus structure. but, christ, the flip side of that coin is getting a little ugly.
agreed...clients will leave
what do you pro-censorship people want? no topics whatsoever that may end up affecting people?
and thinking from the clients' point of view - should they not have information about firms if it will make them think badly of certain firms?
its called a free market economy and yes, people are stupid and overreact to everything, but that's something everybody already knows and considers when making decisions.
to add more praise for Lat's reporting, i'd point out that this type of story may put firms like TPW in heightened "damage control" mode whereby they reconsider whether mass weekly layoffs are a sound PR strategy in the medium-long term
I am not a lawyer.
But to those of you who have raised the level of discourse on this board to such great heights as:
- (first)
- Truly Third Tier Toilet
- "unProffittable" (wit thy name is 5:28PM)
- "shut the f*&k up .... bitch-ass bitch!"
I just have to ask what you have contributed to this discussion/information?
To those of you who have actually processed the information provided in the rumor and offered something useful to the community of individuals who have read it…I give you my thanks (be it anonymous).
But to those who have offered responses along the lines of what I expect to find on digg, reddit, fark, and obviously ANY online game play…please let me know where you work and what your field is. It is too much to ask for Jack McCoy, I know. But I certainly never want to have a lawyer who would ever say "shut the f*&k up .... bitch-ass bitch!" (in ANY venue).
That's just my $0.02
Which is probably worth about a fraction of a second of your time.
Which also depresses me…since you probably got slowed up on your posts by spellcheck when you kept using TTT (whatever that means).
Which you also probably billed to a client like myself.
i think the blog post was largely irresponsible...
"if the situation gets worse, the firm will shut down by the end of the year."
gets worse? meaningless. how much worse? 3%? 10%? 30% less revenue? more partners leaving or associates asked to take buyouts?
The blog post is only irresponsible if the rumor being reported is not credible or if the blog post omitted material information. Right now, only Lat and the TPW folks in the know can be the judge. Doubtful that if TPW management gave a presentation to those in the know that they actually specified how much worse things would have to get in order to require the firm to shut down. Also Lat gave the firm an opportunity to respond before posting, and they apparently declined.
Co-sign 8:07.
Also note that in the first post, Lat cited a TPW source who "denied hearing any such gossip." It was clear that Lat was just putting out a rumor that has been making the rounds - I know I've heard it.
This is "a legal tabloid". So caveat emptor.
Ten associates were not fired. That tipster didn't know what he was talking about.
Too bad all you losers that were canned from Thacher or the insiders at Thacher that are about to be canned... *tipster* .... hold such sour grapes. You all should hold onto something else before they are taken from you too.
Thank you, 12:29.
Like you, I always wonder where these uncivilized, aggressive, virtually illiterate, but proudly anonymous people hide...
Tvetenstrand is the "managing partner" of TPW? What's he managing? The word is that the firm cannot even afford to pay partners their monthly draw or overdue holdback from 2007; this in the face of a huge capital call the partners were forced to make back in late January to keep the TPW Titanic from sinking too fast.
Tvetenstrand is the "managing partner" of TPW? What's he managing? The word is that the firm cannot even afford to pay partners their monthly draw or overdue holdback from 2007; this in the face of a huge capital call the partners were forced to make back in late January to keep the TPW Titanic from sinking too fast.
I can say I know this firm. Before 9/11 it was a great firm but after when Paul and Lenny Nuara and the IT Director who can't think for himself unless Lenny says Speak. It's been down hill since 2002.
I say Thank God that this firm is finally dying. For other firms out there you may want to stay away from the follow partners in case they want to come to you firm. I know who is good and who is an asshole.
AsHole:
Lenny Nuara, Joseph S. Nicotra, Michael E. Helmer, Erik D. Klingenberg, Thomas M. Leslie, Andrea N. Mandell, Stephanie G. Nygard, Robert B. Olin, Donald F. Simone, Mark I. Sokolow, Paul D. Tvetenstrand, Christine Vrettos, Omer S.J. Williams,
And YOU DO NOT WANT THE IT STAFF of THIS FIRM. The last firm they came firm was taken over and now this. THEY ARE BAD LUCK.
Chris HILL, A. WOODS, Dierk ECKART, SHANA -- all bad people.
For the most part the above are who you do not want in your firm.
Most of the other partners and associates are good hard woking people. Just watch out for those mentioned above.
Good things happen to those that wait. I waited a long time to finally see this Nasty Firm die.
Good Bye TPW.
Happy Guest.
I read online that two TPW partners joined Kaye Scholer today - is this the first of more to come or just a normal partner move?
http://www.pr-inside.com/leading-structured-finance-lawyers-william-r710117.htm
For the partner question. Already a great deal of their main base of partners are gone. Mexico City , office left as one big group. Heard Otto was not happy with Paul at all. Many other big partners have left also. And I mean big.
This is not a normal partner move. Others are looking to see who will have them. Many will jump ship soon enough. Why wait till the end.
Jack must be kicking himself in the ass for letting Paul take over.
There are some very good partners and associates still there I hope they do not wait to long and regret it.
My moles there and they are in different areas will not be staying long as they said it is very bad over there right now.
Secret Squirrel
Hey Happy Guest,
Did you get a job yet? Or are you still on severance? Loser.
The two partners who left TPW for Kaye Scholer had just joined the firm with a $10 million book of business in scuritization, which no longer exists.
Word from satellite office partners is that they are moslty intervieiwing to get out of there, but want the TPW folks in NY to think they are standing firm on the Titianic. White Plains and DC offices slated to close.
Over 20 partner have now left in five months, with many more interviewing. TPW can't pay partners money owed from 2007 "earnings"; extraordinary capital contributions were required from partners in February that they will liekly never get back; more associates forced out or leaving. THEY NEED TO TELL THEIR PEOPLE THE TRUTH.
The two partners who left TPW for Kaye Scholer had just joined the firm with a $10 million book of business in scuritization, which no longer exists.
Word from satellite office partners is that they are moslty intervieiwing to get out of there, but want the TPW folks in NY to think they are standing firm on the Titianic. White Plains and DC offices slated to close.
Over 20 partner have now left in five months, with many more interviewing. TPW can't pay partners money owed from 2007 "earnings"; extraordinary capital contributions were required from partners in February that they will liekly never get back; more associates forced out or leaving. THEY NEED TO TELL THEIR PEOPLE THE TRUTH.
The two partners who left TPW for Kaye Scholer had just joined the firm with a $10 million book of business in scuritization, which no longer exists.
Word from satellite office partners is that they are moslty intervieiwing to get out of there, but want the TPW folks in NY to think they are standing firm on the Titianic. White Plains and DC offices slated to close.
Over 20 partner have now left in five months, with many more interviewing. TPW can't pay partners money owed from 2007 "earnings"; extraordinary capital contributions were required from partners in February that they will liekly never get back; more associates forced out or leaving. THEY NEED TO TELL THEIR PEOPLE THE TRUTH.
The two partners who left TPW for Kaye Scholer had just joined the firm with a $10 million book of business in scuritization, which no longer exists.
Word from satellite office partners is that they are moslty intervieiwing to get out of there, but want the TPW folks in NY to think they are standing firm on the Titianic. White Plains and DC offices slated to close.
Over 20 partner have now left in five months, with many more interviewing. TPW can't pay partners money owed from 2007 "earnings"; extraordinary capital contributions were required from partners in February that they will liekly never get back; more associates forced out or leaving. THEY NEED TO TELL THEIR PEOPLE THE TRUTH.
The two partners who left TPW for Kaye Scholer had just joined the firm with a $10 million book of business in scuritization, which no longer exists.
Word from satellite office partners is that they are moslty intervieiwing to get out of there, but want the TPW folks in NY to think they are standing firm on the Titianic. White Plains and DC offices slated to close.
Over 20 partner have now left in five months, with many more interviewing. TPW can't pay partners money owed from 2007 "earnings"; extraordinary capital contributions were required from partners in February that they will liekly never get back; more associates forced out or leaving. THEY NEED TO TELL THEIR PEOPLE THE TRUTH.
Dear 10:58AM,
Bought a 20 million dollar home, got a boat and have several women living with me. and have a great job with a major corporation because of my great ideas.
Not bad for a LOSER!!!
Very Happy Guest.
Apparently, the 2 partners who left for Kaye Scholer, Butch Cullen and Janet Barbiere, are very "close".