Curious to hear impressions on Jones Day... I've never heard anything good about it.

O'Melveny laid people offf and underpaid on bonuses. To be avoided.

The Jones Day DC office gets some good people (lots of ex-SCOTUS clerks).

Heard Ropes paid above market to some midlevels last year. Can anyone confirm?

I had a friend who lateraled out of O'Melveny recently (and was very happy to leave).

Look at the prior coverage of OMM:

http://abovethelaw.com/omelveny_myers/

I like 10 firms at a time...5 at a time was getting a bit old

5: Yep, certain midlevels both in and outside New York got more than NY market bonuses. Not a lot, but a little.

Love 10 firms at a time

On-site dentist, huh? No thanks; my work life is painful enough as it is.

Linklaters and Clifford Chance are two of my top firms to interview with. Any information about either would be great. Especially info on how often you visit the overseas offices if you are based in NY.

Re 2:

Bad things about Jones Day,
1) Not that selective and prestigious among top law schools
2) NO BONUSES or very small bonuses for most associates
3) Based out of Cleveland
4) Bad work environment by many reports (Autoadmit, for what its worth, provides a pretty negative view of the firm, much more so than other firms)
5) Long hours ("Jones Day and All Night")

CC desperate

milbank is a great shop

I want to do appellate work in DC. I am not conservative (so not interested in places like GDC and K&E).

Is Mayer Brown the way to go?

If the folks at Autoadmit dislike Jones Day, that tells me the firm must be doing something right!

Jones Day obviously is not that bad of a place given the firm's large size, numerous international offices and notable clients.

Jones Day NY isn't a bad place. Biggest problem is the bonuses are highly discretionary (i.e., unless you're an all-star it's tough to get the whole thing).

Other than that, as far as quality of life or other factors it's not that much different from other firms in the same range.

12--The phrase is "Jones Days Nights and Weekends."

Ropes is a pe powerhouse. Supposed to be a good place to work based on the associate survey that recently came out.

15: I would say yes, Mayer Brown is probably the way to go for you - their appellate shop is among the best. Also, for what it's worth, I personally don't think you should let your (or a firm's) political slant affect your decision too much.

Isn't O'Melveny a TTT?

Latham and Gibson dominate OMM and PH in Los Angeles.

Face it - When you say you work for Mayor Brown, people assume your working for the mayor of East Orange, NJ.

23 is correct

Mayer Brown seems a bit shaky still after the investigations and indictments

why is Milbank falling? are they having problems? i heard there is not much work there at the moment at all - first years sitting around doing next to nothing, especially in litigation

Jones Day's Issues and Appeals group is top notch. Many ex-SCOTUS clerks, and ex-clerks for the Chief Judges of various circuit courts. If you don't have those credentials, you'll be thrown into the general lot (no issues and appeals for you!). In either case, the DC office does not pay bonuses, and paying below market is the rule, not the exception.

Jones Day's Cleveland office is a good thing (not that I'm biased...). Salary goes farther in Cleveland than in NYC, etc...

Milbank is a great place to work - best cafeteria in city, partners are nice and understanding, excellent diversity, you get to take your vacations, no minimum hours for full bonus. I actually like my job.

15: GDC has a few liberal attorneys in its appellate group and had many liberal summers this year. Worth checking it out.

So, how's MoFo LA?

"1) Not that selective and prestigious among top law schools"

I'm not sure why that would matter to anyone. Other than the ego boost of being one of the "selected" at a selective place (and I wouldn't particularly want to work with anyone to whom that mattered) why would that have any impact on anyone's decision? What's the environment like, what's the work like, what's the training like, what's the pay like, what's your future there - those are the important questions (at least to me, back when I was interviewing).

Will people at top law schools think I got a job offer from a less selective place? Not so much . . .

A serious question to which I hope I'll get serious responses: are you happy/unhappy/indifferent to your choice to enter law school/the legal profession? Would you do it again if you had the chance?

no

to 34... no way.

Know anything about Linklaters? I know their NY office is growing rapidly...but I've heard not so good things about working there

Know anything about Linklaters? I know their NY office is growing rapidly...but I've heard not so good things about working there

The opportunity for travel through Links is there if you want it.

Re: Linklaters

The irony of an "on-site dentist" at a London-based law firm is not lost on this reader...

Anyone with comments on Mofo? How does it stack up against Irella and Kirkland for IP on west coast?

What about Kirkland Chicago?

what is Cleary litigation like?

34:

I love my job. I love the people I work with. I love my firm. I love the money I make. I love the type of law I practice. I love the big cases we handle.

Most lawyers are miserable people. But are they miserable because they practice law? Or were they miserable from the beginning?

My firm is crawling with people who had impressive resumes before they ever got to law school--- people who had jobs, careers, contacts, accomplishments outside of BIGLAW. They seem like people who were happy before they entered law. And on the whole, they seem like they've managed to remain happy.

So in short, I'd do it all over again. Even 1L if I had to. Because for me, it's been worth it.

34 - 33 here. Happy, loving it, would do it again in a heartbeat

34: You are totally asking the wrong people, at the wrong time.

15: Whether a firm's associates/partners tend to lean one way or another politically should have no bearing on your decision. It really doesn't matter much at all. You are all doing work for clients, and its the cleints' concerns and agenda that matter - not yours. The point is, you'll be working for giant corporations' interests no matter where you work, so you might as well work with the best people. That said, if you really want to work with liberals and do appellate work, Mayer is a good place to start. Hogan is a mixed bag, but there are plenty of fellow libs to hang out with.

A little bit more on the Ropes above-market-bonuses:

What happened was that Ropes matched the NY bonuses in both NY and Boston. They also paid the special bonuses (with some variation within a modest range). The bonuses actually paid became above market because the firm, in calculating our final payment amounts, made our mid-year salary raises retroactive to the beginning of the year.

I disagree with 46. I'm clearly partisan. I had no interest in working for a firm where people were almost universally at the opposite end of the political spectrum. Makes sense to me.

I agree that you definitely want to work at a great firm with the best people. But I think you can find such a firm where your political ideology is a match.

I don't know if MoFo is still selling itself as a "quality of life" workplace, but everyone I've ever known who worked there (including summers) thought it was a total sweatshop.

I had a friend at Jones Day DC. One year he worked 2700 (on a trial team), and another he worked 1700. He was well regarded throughout. His gripe was that, absent a bonus, his compensation did not reflect all of the hours he worked that one year. But, his salary was ridiculous after a few years. Way above the lock step of other good DC offices. So no bonus but jacked up mid-level salaries.

How about some news about white guys with asian girls??

- King of WGWAG

A DRINKS TROLLEY!---G & T for me.

26 - what investigations and indictments at Mayer Brown?

Does anyone have any info/insight with regard to Ropes NY? One specific question I have is how large is their non-IP litigation department, i.e., how large is the litigation department excluding IP? How are the litigation partners? Is their corporate department busy despite the slow economy? Any other info/insight is strongly appreciated.

Lat, we need a thread on offers for summers this year....that will help with recruiting questions more so than anything else

47: Did most people outside Ropes NY get the "special bonus" or just a select few?

Any color on Ropes bonuses and whether they can compete with K&E, seeing how Ropes just opened an office in Chicago. Anyone have any insight into their Chicago office?

On-site doctor and dentist? Yikes.

milbank is a stellar place to be.

56: a select few

Ropes has been growing their NY office rapidly in the last few years, but I don't think the reputation they have in Boston has followed them to NY

Ropes has been growing their NY office rapidly in the last few years, but I don't think the reputation they have in Boston has followed them to NY

11 -- Business travel abroad at Links NY is not entirely uncommon, but not as much as you might otherwise expect. At the same time, Links lets you start in London (and other foreign offices, depending on circumstances) so if you do want to work abroad, it's a great option. I've heard similar about CC.

Mofo,

It's definitely not a QOL firm anymore though its not any worse in terms of hours, etc. than typical Biglaw. I interviewed there as a 1L, litigators said that the QOL thing doesn't exist if it was ever true. Billables now are frequently 2200+. That being said, they still market themselves as a fun place to work with nicer people than average Biglaw.

53. It is primarily with regards to their involvement with Refco. One of their partners was indicted by the SEC and the firm is involved in a lawsuit.

Didn't MoFo SF have a ton of summers this summer? Anyone know what happened with offers?

For what it is worth, I am an outgoing COA clerk for a well-known active judge and am heading to MoFo SF this fall. Obviously, I cannot say a 100% that it was the best choice for me since I have not started at the firm, but I did pick it after careful consideration of numerous attractive options.

For what it is worth, I am an outgoing COA clerk for a well-known active judge and am heading to MoFo SF this fall. Obviously, I cannot say a 100% that it was the best choice for me since I have not started at the firm, but I did pick it after careful consideration of numerous attractive options.

Many of my peers have had overwhelmingly positive experiences at Jones Day. Yes, the compenstation system is a bit shrouded in mystery, However, my friends are doing well at the firm and are overall pleased with their compensation. I work at another big shop and seemingly put up with way more crap than the JDers I know do.

Many of my peers have had overwhelmingly positive experiences at Jones Day. Yes, the compenstation system is a bit shrouded in mystery, However, my friends are doing well at the firm and are overall pleased with their compensation. I work at another big shop and seemingly put up with way more crap than the JDers I know do.

Ropes What What!!!

Any thoughts on Hogan and Hartson D.C.? They seemed to sell themselves as "a bunch of really nice people to work with" (like MoFo).

41-

If you want to do IP on the west coast, think 1) Keker/Irell/Finnegan/Fish/Knobbe, 2) Kirkland, 3) Mofo, 4) Latham/Gibson. Munger probably falls somewhere between 1 & 2, simply because they don't do as much IP work, but the stuff they do is interesting. Latham & Gibson fall low on the scale because they also don't do tons of IP work, but they are trying to ramp their practices up.

Mofo does seem to have nicer people than most, and fewer of the complete toolbags that you seem to see at big firms, but at the end of the day the hours wind up being the same -- MoFo is just nicer when they tell you that you need to work all weekend. But really, anyone who goes into a BIGLAW firm doing litigation or corporate and thinks that they are getting into a lifestyle firm is deluding themselves. You might get away with 1750-1900 hours a year in regulatory/benefits/estate planning type practice in the BIGLAW firm, but the core revenue generators for any firm (litigation and corporate) are going to feature long hours, ruined vacations and stressful times most of the time.

73, Knobbe and Finnegan above Kirkland and Mofo? Knobbe is more of a QOL firm than a top work firm from what I gather. Finnegan's really only strong in DC. I would Weil to the list (same level as Mofo). Keker is really strong, but small, so they don't touch as many matters.

OMM and Orrick are worth mentioning, as much as Latham and Gibson

Clifford Chance had a hot summer class if you're into that sort of thing.

Does anyone have any info/insight with regard to Ropes NY? One specific question I have is how large is their non-IP litigation department, i.e., how large is the litigation department excluding IP? How are the litigation partners? Is their corporate department busy despite the slow economy? Any other info/insight is also strongly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Does anyone know how Jones Day's bonus system works? Also, what's up with the New York office? I've heard bad things about it. However, I've also heard that you'll probably get an offer from them so long as you are in the top 1/3 of your class at a T100 school (yes, tier 1 or tier 2) and do some sort of journal (not just law review). Is this true? If so, it might be a good stepping stone for some of us less accomplished individuals to get a job at a "real" New York firm.

Definitely do your homework on Mayer Brown.

78 -

The Jones Day DC bonus formula is a little convoluted, but you basically take the total number of your billable client hours, subtract half of the hours that were written off, add in all pro bono hours, then add in 25% of your "core" firm hours (recruiting, practice-related legal alerts, speaking on panels, etc.) and then multiply the total by zero. That's your bonus.

Bonuses suck at Jones Day

Links isn't a bad place to work. For Big Law, it's actually a great place to work. The people are smart and nice. The work is interesting, especially if you want to do cross-border transactional work (If all you want to do is domestic transactional work, go somewhere else).

As for travel - if you're on a deal that requires you to go visit the client, all you're going to see is the inside of an office building and your hotel. Going to Moscow to meet with a client doing an IPO? Don't count on seeing the Kremlin unless you pass it on the way from your hotel to office.

However, Links has US qualified attorneys in numerous offices. The largest group of US qualified attorneys is in London. There also seems to be a fair amount of demand for attorneys in Dubai and Hong Kong. Sao Paulo also seems to be growing. So getting assigned to a foreign office is certainly possible if you express interest and there is a need for a US qualified attorney there - it seems to be easier to get a foreign posting compared to other Big Law shops.

But make no mistake - Links is Big Law. Long hours, weekends, due diligence, discovery, etc.... All Vault firms are Big Law - all require long hours. The difference is in the people. And the people at Links make those long hours tolerable (enjoyable sometimes).

34 - sometimes i'm happy, sometimes not. While I like what I'm doing for the most part I probably still wouldn't do it again if I could go back. I don't work for Biglaw, never have. but the firms I have worked for have demanded similar hours for a lot less pay. Vacations, sick and time off for child birth were major hassles. I wish someone I had heard by in college that family and a legal career don't really mix.

That being said, after many years, I think I may have finally found a lawfirm I can live with and can live with me. The pay is not as good, but its enough to live on. I like the work and my co-workers. I hope it works out.
We'll see when it comes time for my vacation.

For a law firm, Ropes is a great place to be. Wouldn't leave for any other firm. Corporate department seems reasonably busy. My hours may be off by 10% or so compared to last year though, but that's a welcome change.

53/65... are you kidding about Mayer Brown? They're being sued in a number of law suits. The total amount being claimed is about US$8bn. More than enought to wipe them out several times over. One of them involves a series of frauds. This is very important for several reasons, not least of which is that their insurance (or rather, what's left of it) won't cover for fraud. So they're uninsured. What's more, the partner at the center of the alleged fraud has been indicted by the SDNY and the SEC (google Joseph Collins at Mayer Brown). Every other defendant has pleaded guilty to this fraud. What does that tell you about their prospects in the civil matter?

In any event, it's well past TTT, having lost about 1/3 of its partners over the last 2 years (in some part due to extremely low profits, poor management and the not unimportant US$8bn in uninsured law suits hanging over their heads). They've not hired from top tier law schools in some time as a result.

85: You're kidding about the Mayer hiring, right? Or are you simply another anonymous troll who likes to put down firms you know nothing about? I can walk around the office right now and find most junior associate offices occupied by people from the "top tier law schools." Mid-level too -- because let's not forget that Mayer hires clerks almost exclusively in many of its offices, so direct hiring from top tier law schools is not exactly a key metric.

73 - also Weil for IP Lit in the Silicon Valley. Powerhouse.

Althought Mayer has had some issues in the past few years, 85 is grossly overexagerrating

Any word on OMM? They have received some bad posts on here, but wasn't sure if it was anything worth worrying about

85 is a good example of why those who get their firm info from Above the Law get what they deserve. Any useful info in there was completely drowned in one-sided, over the top exaggeration. Do your homework, but make sure you have a better source.

86/88... that is such BS. A simple "trawl" rather than "troll" of the internet proves what I have said. Google "Mayer Brown/departures/Joseph Collins/Refco/lack of insurance/Paul Maher" etc and it's all there. Legal Times, the Lawyer and other legal rags have covered it in some detail.

Now, how do YOU back up your BS about top tier grads? Why the f*%k would anyone with a decent background go to a firm with this much baggage?

I feel bad for you that you chose poorly (or didn't have a choice?), but don't spread the misery dude by telling other would be graduates that everything is ok and it's not being sued for US$8bn and hasn't lost 1/3 of its equity partners over the last 2 years. That's the stuff of real douchebags.

Regards

85

90... our postings crossed. It appears one sided, but that ain't the half of it. None of the equity partners have been paid this year, which lead to a flood of departures earlier in the year. My new firm (I am happy to say I am ex-MB) has interviewed plenty of wannabe-exMB partners and the message is all the same. Bad management, no culture, no institutional clients, no cash left. I could go on, but thought it best to stick to easy verifiable facts (ie what's in the wider news), rather than just what I know first hand. To prove I am not completely one sided, I am happy to say they still have some good litigations (Andy Frei and Richard Ben-Viste) but they're old school eat what you kill partners (with no legacy to leave) and Frei is about to retire. All the others (and there are 8 or 9 or them) who were leaders have all left. It's not a pretty story.

Does anyone know whether Ropes Chicago will be recruiting for next summer? If so, what is the estimated number of summers?

I believe Ropes does plan to hire at least a small summer class in Chicago for Summer 2009.

I don't know who came up that list about best IP shops to work for on the west coast. MoFo had the 2d most active patent litigation department in the country this year.

i'm at MoFo and it's not a sweatshop. Yes, at times I put in long hours. But I'm not working with jerks and everybody pitches in to help, which is how it should be. Litigation hours are likely to be similar at any firm (perhaps not at KMOB b/c they've got a lower billed hours requirement) so what you need to look at is the quality of work, quality of experience you get, and whether you want to be working with the people who are there.

67/68, people like you are the exact reason I turned down my offer from MoFo.

So what if you are an "outgoing COA clerk for a well-known active judge"? Why is that relevant?

MoFo is full of pretentious pricks who feel the need to tout their credentials everywhere they go. People who relish the opportunity to work weekends for some "super star" partner, just so they can say I'm working on X case with X partner even if it is just doc review. No thanks!

I'm a MoFo Associate in a west coast office. I agree with the poster who said that anyone who thinks that s/he can go to a BigLaw firm with a BigLaw salary and not work BigLaw hours is deluding him/herself. Yes, we do work really hard--certainly as hard as other firms.

This being said, I respect and really like the people I work with: excellent attorneys and interesting people. The atmosphere is collegial and the work challenging. A good balance of working hard and playing nice. I am probably much happier here than I would be at almost any other BigLaw firm.

Are there advantages or disadvantages to working in a start up satellite office (e.g. Ropes Chicago)? I am wondering about positive things such as the ability to work directly with partners and potential early responsibility as well as the negative things like potential lack of resources and slow deal flow.

Has anyone worked in such an environment that can share their thoughts?

If you care about knowing what bonus your peers got, don't go to Jones Day, if you care about your peers' "prestige," don't go to Jones Day, they don't want rank-obsessed social climbers. Skadden was made for you.

The firm keeps compensation secret to promote collegiality and teamwork. As the managing partner often says, everyone learns in grade school not to talk about money. Does that mean that all the secret variable merit-based bonuses add up to less than total compensation at lockstep firms? You can guess but you'll never get proof on a site like this.

The firm hires from more law schools than any other on this list, intentionally preferring students who have done really well or who have prior career experience. They like hiring well-rounded superstars from mid-range schools to balance out and teach the kids for whom their sole accomplishment in life was getting into yale.

No suprise but quality of life varies between the 30 offices, and can be lined up with regional stereotypes, DC and NY work hard and are formal, midwest offices are friendlier, CA offices are more laid back.

I agree with 97. Also at MoFo and I've never heard anyone who "touts their credentials" or brags about being on certain cases as 96 said. My experience has been quite the opposite. I work hard, but do so with good people. I'm remarkably happy for a biglaw associate.

66:

Something like 44/46 got offers.

99 gives a pretty solid overview of JD (my ex-firm). While the midwest offices might be friendlier (I'm assuming that means Chicago, Cleveland and *cough* armpit of the firm *cough* Columbus), the hours are still rough depending upon pracitce group. PE in Chicago and M&A (and to a lesser extent) PE in Cleveland seem to work their asses of; capital markets at times and certain lit corners, too. Overall, it's a solid firm (good but not great across the board, though with some truly great groups: Issues and Appeals, Antitrust, Employment, and mid-market-type M&A) and I'm proud to have worked there.

96, I am sorry that you felt that I was touting my credentials. The reason that I mentioned that I had a lot of options is because many people who post on this board think that the Vault ranking is all that matters. My point was that I had a lot of options and picked MoFo after just going through the process. I also began with the phrase for "what it is worth" since I have not started yet. However, it is relevant since the point of this post is to compare the top firms in the country. Having a COA clerkship or similar credential gives you the realistic opportunity to have your pick of firms. I was fortunate to have been in that position and chose MoFo over some of the other firms being discussed now and yesterday. I am happy to post my reasons for doing so if asked.

67

I find it really odd that Milbank dropped three spots in the rankings this year. They are extremely profitable and are well prepared for the bad economy to come -- in fact, with a strong Bankruptcy and Project Finance practice, they are very well positioned to thrive in a down economy.

Milbank should have also earned extra points for making what has come to be known as the "Milbank promise" to not fire associates. And they have, as far as I can tell, kept this promise.

Mel cannot be happy about this.

how awesome is it that a british firm has an on-site dentist? HILARIOUS.

102, why the h8 for JD columbus? i've always heard good things about that office.

how awesome is it that a british firm has an on-site dentist? HILARIOUS.

106 - It was somewhat tongue-in-cheek to Profusek's comment in the infamous article a year or so ago. I think he included Cleveland, too, right?

- 102

how is being based in cleveland a bad thing for Jones Day?

108. to what article do you refer?

109 - in any event, they're not based in Cleveland. It's smaller than eg NY, and the firm's management is in DC.

I'm an associate in one of MoFo's west coast office and I am very satisfied. There are asshole partners, but you can expect that at any place. I've talked to my friends at all the other BigLaw firms. I think MoFo has a lot less of those problematic prick attorneys. I genuinely like the people I work with and I don't fear coming to work, which is pretty damn good for a law firm experience. Women associates really love the place because of the parental leave policy we have. Some are staying long enough to pop some kids out. And bonuses has been restructured so its more market level. No complaints here.

104 - written like a true HR drone seeking some positive spin. So artificial its hilarious to read.

Hey 92, if you know so much about Mayer Brown, how come you spell Andrew Frey's name wrong?

I second 98's question. I too am pursuing an opportunity to work at a newly formed sattelite office of a firm (not Ropes) in a different city (not Chicago). I would love to hear the pros and cons if anybody has any experience with this.

I lateralled from Links -- HUGE mistake. It's a great, perhaps a bit zainy, firm. And if you're based in NY, there are abundant opportunities to second to other offices, and don't forget the yearly practice group retreats!

Jones Day DC's office has a nice view

Nothing at all on PH? Not even an obligatory comment about women and pregnancy?

Anyone care to share their experience with OMM DC?

Ropes is rumored to be doubling their SA class for 2009--to 260 nationwide. It's a great place to work, and the economy doesn't seem to be slowing them down at all. Top of the line in Boston. the other offices aren't as standout yet, but NY is getting there, especially in IP with the acquisition of Fish & Neave a few years back.

Any thoughts on MoFo as compared to other more prestigious national shops (e.g. Kirkland and Latham) in SF? Still tops?

Any thoughts on MoFo as compared to more prestigious national shops (e.g. Kirkland and Latham) in SF? Still tops?

121--Yes, still tops in my opinion. See my posts at 67 and 103.

Cradle Robber's got nothin. Guys at my high school did all the hot summers at Davis. And CC, OMM and MB. Didn't touch Jones Day or the pregnant women at PH.

I summered at Mayer Brown DC. No firsthand knowledge on the getting-sued thing, but the place was full of very smart people from elite law schools (including me, and most of my fellow summers). I liked it.

114 - probably for th same reason I spelt "litigators" as "litigations". It's not paid word product, so who gives a f*%k about typos?

113 -- Not an HR drone, just a happy associate who is on the ground.

120: I think that number is greatly exaggerated. This year was 180 and next year will be a little more.

GIANT d-bags at Mayer Brown DC. See 125.

125 - very convincing... until you look at their website. Out of the fist 4 or 5 lawyers listed in DC, one went to Howard U, one went to Mercer and one went to Punjabi University. Real top notch schools. Which elites school in the Orient did you go to?

123 - any thoughts to Mofo's bonus structure vis-a-vis Kirkland's or Latham's? the work + people seem great.

116 - you should come back. I'm at Links now and we are extremely busy. For what it's worth, I know of at least two other associates who left for a while and then came back (though not to other law firms I think), and people seem genuinely happy to have them back.

I concur with what some of the other posters have said, on any reasonable overall metric - quality of work, quality of life, quality of people, Linklaters is a fantastic place to be. Might not be the top on a list based on only one of those criteria, but overall you certainly can't do better for NY biglaw.

99:

True, but you can get conclusive proof if you are married to someone at a "peer" firm.

130--Wow. Great argument.

Of course, if you could actually comprehend what you read, you would note the partner who went to Punjabi University went there as an undergrad--her law degree is from University of Delhi. That probably seems suspect to you as well, but I'll point out that she's head of that firm's India practice, so maybe, just maybe, this makes sense.

JD Chicago is a good place to work.

Head of the Indian prac and based in DC. Yeh, that makes a huge amount of sense. Must be over flowing with Indian work. Immigration court, visas, 7-11 leases, that sort of thing.

What do the guys from Mercer and Howard do?

113 - not a HR drone, i'm an associate at Milbank and it's great!

I summered at Mayer last year. Although I didn't accept their offer, it had nothing to do with "troubles" there.

As for the REFCO thingy, the original indictments that came out said Mayer Brown did exactly what it should have, they weren't connected to the fraud, but they would probably be sued because the people involved are going after everyone. As for the insurance, it more than covers what it's being sued for.

The other summers (and young associates) were all from elite law schools, Harvard, Stanford, UC, NU, Mich, Georgetown, etc. There were some from smaller and lesser schools, but they were top of their classes (I think there were two number 1s from various schools). 3/4 of the students were honors, etc.

The firm carries no debt, and is in a great position right now. From what I've heard, they had there largest ever summer class in Chicago and are out of office space right now because they're growing so fast.

Finally, some of the big people did leave in recent years, but it appeared to be natural ebb and flow. People were offered a bundle of money and the chance to head/start up their own divisions at competing firms. Sort of hard to say no to that.

Oh, and all the attorneys I met there (and still run into) are very happy there; they still try to sell me on it.

Anyways, it's still considered one of the top 3 or 4 big firms in Chicago no doubt, along with Latham, Kirkland, and Sidley..

136--7-11 leases. Nice touch of racism there. Stay classy.

Again, by reading for comprehension (as opposed to scanning for a school that does not meet your lofty standards) I see that the Howard guy was a long-time federal prosecutor, which means he was likely hired for his litigation skills and not his academic pedigree. Some firms do this.

The Mercer guy does tax--it looks like he qualified as a lawyer in the UK and went to Mercer to get his US JD. I'm sure he's not as talented as you.

1:10 - I think he/she meant this one: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/21/business/law.php

(Happy Anniversary!)

In reality, I really like working at JD, even though the co-head of my practice group jammed his foot way in his mouth.

138 - that's total BS from another HR troll.

You're clearly not even a lawyer. The "original indictment" in the "thingy" doesn't even refer or relate to Mayer Brown. It only refers to them as the law firm.

Check it out here:

http://abovethelaw.com/2007/12/lawyer_of_the_day_joseph_colli.php#more

The indictment also doesn't say that they "weren't connected with the fraud". The CEO of Refco rolled on Mayer Brown to get a sentence reduction. They're screwed.

Mayer Brown had $250m in insurance cover. They don't have it any more and what they do have doesn't cover fraud, no matter what the amount. If you were a lawyer you'd understand that.

The ebb and flow point is also crap. They've lost 1/3 of their equity partner. That's a king tide that's never comin' back.

For an alleged summer clerk you claim to know an awful lot about the firm.

However it's disgusting that a HR troll like you would make shit up just to induce an employee into the firm. It ought to be illegal (and probably is)

139 - while "comprehending", you should probably read the original stream of posts. The comment about Punjabi/Mercer/Howard was (as I comprehend it) directed at the allegation from the Mayer Brown HR troll that all the people at MB DC were from "elite schools". A quick look at the first 4 or 5 people on their website suggests that's not true. Unless Punjabi/Delhi, Mercer and Howard are elite schools? By the way, the tax guy who qualified in the UK went to Guildhall. That's the equivalent of a fourth tier state university. No second tier firm in London would hire someone from Guildhall. If he was "smart" (as was the other claim by the HR troll) he would siimply have done the bar exam. You don't need a JD to be admitted in eg NY and you can even do BarBri in London.

Ha Ha!! the Milbank HR drones (or equally stupid associates) at 127 and 137 are clearly too dumb to even coordinate a response with one another!!! funny stuff. The lesson here ... when trying to coordinate a Public Relations campaign, speak to your team mates so you know what is going on.

Mayer was very much worried about the impact it's legal issues would have on summer recruiting. This past summer's class ended up being the biggest ever, and was filled with just as many people from top law schools as any other year. Anyone saying otherwise is completely misinformed.

As for losing equity partners, a lot of that was obviously the firm's decision last Spring to cut a good number who were seen as "unproductive." The other equity partners have certainly been paid this year.

142--139 here. I thought you needed a US law degree to be admitted in most US jurisdictions. My mistake--but then what were all those foreign LLM students doing at my (2nd tier) law school--were they there because they enjoyed it?

I don't think the allegation was that everyone at MB was from an elite school--the poster (who I really don't think is an hr troll) said the place was full of very smart people from elite law schools--he didn't say everybody. I don't think anyone would realistically think that a firm the size of MB would be composed entirely of elite school graduates. And really, once you're a partner, does it really matter? Christ, if you're still jacking off to your HYS degree at the age of 40, you've got some issues.

I wouldn't buy too much into the OMM stuff on this site the last few months. Bonuses were below market this year, but when I summered in one of the socal offices they readily admitted they'd screwed that up, just didn't expect the other CA firms to match NY and didn't have the benefit of announcing them last like LW. Didn't here much about layoffs, my whole summer class got offers. Bottom line is don't let what you read on here make your decision for you.

144... real convincing. Would be more convincing if the firm itself backed you up. Sadly, they don't:

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/04/mayer_brown.php

In fact, they publicly confirm that it was having a "collections-related slowdown in cash flow,". So bad, in fact, that they can't repay all the departing partners their cash flow.

Stop making stuff up.

145 - 142 here.

You may need a JD in some states. An LLM won't help you, no matter where you are. You only need a law degree (such as an LLB in the UK) in eg NY. The LLM's are wasting their time. They'll never get a job at a top firm unless they were good enough even without the LLM. LLM's don't teach you anything.

BTW, I don't think any of the posters on this point claims to be from a top tier school. They've merely called BS on the poster who claims that MB was full of top tier grad's, which appears to be the case (based upon 3 of the first 5 lawyers on their website who seem to be from less than stellar law schools).

Based upon the ignorance of all the associates blogging here (who seem to have no idea about the shit they're in), they seem to have a real liking for grads (even those from first tier firms) who can't carry out even simple internet research.

How in the heck do so many smart, successful, supposedly type-A personality people (posters on this site) have such a hard time getting vacation and time off??? I work in biglaw, am a fifth year, and have never had any trouble getting time off. I get the standard four weeks a year and would never take all of that time (no kids, yet (but soon, I think!)) so no need for four weeks, but I get at least two weeks a year and several three and four day weekends. Ladies, gentlemen? Speak up for yourselves. Trust me, the people who own the firm will respect you a lot more (and trust you dealing with their high-maintenance clients) if you can walk in to their office and say (not ask!) that you will be off for this week or that week. "I will be in _________ the week of ________. I will, of course, check my email during the day, but I will not return to the office until _____." Done! Shoulders up, head up, be an adult!. To the extent grumpy junior partner wants to give you crap, I guarantee senior partner will laugh and defend you. Just (like all things in life) vacation in moderation. Hit a couple three hundred hour months a year, bill 2200 and you will never have a drop of trouble taking time off. Man. Weak people bug me.

149 - I'd be out on my ass, guaranteed. People just don't take vacations here. (Don't worry, I'm looking to lateral. Summer associates: Pay attention as to whether or not people go on vacation. If the people you work for don't, then neither will you.)

I've been at CC for almost a year and have not had an opportunity to travel anywhere. Unfortunately, I think this is the norm for junior associates.

I've been at Ropes for 5 years and have taken each and every one of my four weeks every year. No questions asked as long as you meet the billable expectation and do your job well.

149 - I am also a mid to senior-level associate, and I've found that as my responsibilities have grown, I've got much more scheduled on my calendar (I'm in litigation, so there usually tend to be a lot of moving targets for depositions, brief due dates, discovery cut-offs). In other words, its hard to get time off, because if you are a crucial member of a case team, you can't just not show up for something important. I've had more than one vacation cancelled (or delayed/moved) because something was moved into the week of my vacation. Sure, sometimes other people can handle it, but sometimes YOU are the person that needs to handle it because YOU don't want to chance someone else dropping the ball. I don't begrudge it, its just what happens when YOU are the one responsible for something (I'm capitalizing "you" because sometimes it is you--rather than a partner--that realizes you just can't take vacation that week). Add this fact to the fact you usually want to actually DO something on vacation rather than just sit at home (so you've got a SO's schedule to take into account, you've got time-of-the-year considerations to take into account (who wants to go to Miami in hurricaine season?)), and it quickly becomes apparent that it is VERY difficult to schedule a vacation and get time off.

I took one 8 work day vacation last year (one of those Wednesday to the next Sunday type things), and some Fridays off to travel to weddings, so maybe I took technically a little over 2 weeks of vacation last year, but it most certainly wasn't easy to do.

Props on the 300 hour months--I've never gotten higher than about 280, but I can't bill for travel time---but no props if you don't have the responsibility yet in your fifth year of practice to recognize that planning vacation is tough.

Oh, and just in case people actually find comments like this helpful to figuring out what firm to work for, I'm at Jones Day (oh, and I wrote this quickly, so I'm sure there are spelling and grammer mistakes in here, but who cares).

153: 149 here. Trust me, I understand what you are saying. Just this past July I took a vacation to the outer banks. A dep popped up in Ohio that I needed to take. I flew out that morning from Va. airport into toledo and was back on the beach that night. I took an extra day off at h ome when we returned. It was no big deal (yes, said with a frat guy smile). I guess my point is, again, moderation in expectations. Yes, last year we made almost 300K, so of course we have responsibilities that never go away. But we also have technological options. Go on vacation and work a few hours each day. Its better than nothing. And, you look even better sending off a substantive email during vacation. Partner has no idea it was sent whil on the beach with a surfboard and a bud light or 12. I mean, what we do is just not that frigen hard.

147, it's not complicated. As has been reported previously, there were cash flow issues earlier in the year that led to a delayed partner draw. But to suggest that equity partners haven't been paid all year is completely false.

One last point, if you are taking the deposition you are scheduling the deposition. At least three times I have said no to a date because I had a vacation/wedding/bachelor party weekend scheduled. Turns out? It gets moved to another date.

152 = tax, estate planning, or EB/EC associate.

154 - No doubt. Props. Of course, I'm at JD-DC, so not even near the 300 mark.

156 - It would be nice to have clients (or adverse company's C level people) so forgiving of the lawyer's schedule, but you're usually working with a limited number of days the deponent is available.

-143

131: Yes, the bonus structure is different. MoFo sets their bonuses in advance unlike other firms that watch to see where the market will take them. Some years, this may mean that MoFo is behind market (although this past year it gave the "special bonus" after the fact to help catch up). MoFo bonuses are also part hours-based and part merit-based. This may mean that some people end up above market and others below. (We have a new structure this year, so no one is totally sure how it will all work out.)

I like the fact that the firm sets out the bonus policy in advance. I also think that people who work hundreds of hours more than others deserve a bit more at the end. The new merit-based bonus structure is an unknown (we now have different levels of merit, as opposed to one set add-on merit component), so not sure how it will work out in the end, but I agree with the concept. Other people may not agree--and this is something for them to consider. MoFo is definitely unique in how it treats its non-NY offices' bonus. (I believe the MoFo NY office traditionally follows NY bonus rates.)

121: At any top SF firm--MoFo, Latham, Kirkland, etc. included--you'll find people who had their pick of firms, but chose one based on x, y, and/or z factors. I chose MoFo because it "fit" me: the people, the work, the feel of the office. I generally like coming to the office, am challenged by my work, and respect and like most of the people I work with. You should interview with the firms you're interested in and see for yourself. Good luck.

To 67/103/123: Look forward to having you join us. :)

A MoFo SF associate

Regarding Mayer Brown, don’t discount that which is reflected at:

http://blog.larrybodine.com/2008/06/articles/current-affairs/former-mayer-brown-partner-sues-firm-for-ousting-him/

and

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202422369263

146 - Come on, you can't really be that stupid. Of course OMM says all the right things to the summer associates. Most firms do. The fact is that OMM has had bonus issues for a number of years. This year, though, bonuses at OMM got much more attention than in the past due to the greater disparity this year than normal between OMM's bonuses and that of Latham/Gibson/Irell, and because of the ridiculous bonus memo it put out. And on top of the bonus issues, there are a number of other problems at the firm. There are a ton of OMM litigators who have been very slow the entire year. I am fairly confident that the same thing is not going on at other comparable firms. There have been so many posts on here this year about how bad OMM is...do you really think they are all lies?

I was at OMM (I left voluntarily), and the firm is very poorly run. If you are a 2L and OMM is your only option, you should definitely take it. But my guess is that just about every 2L with an offer from OMM is likely to have offers from some other top firms as well. Go to those other firms.

seriously? who cares? any firm the size of MB (or any other firm that brings in over a billion in gross revenue) will have some bottomfeeder lawsuits

I lateraled into OMM and lateraled out. Their new associate retreat focused on "developing skills so that you can leave and become a valued OMM alum" so you know that's a bad sign.

161 - I get that your comments are about OMM overall, but do you have any good/bad office recs? Thanks.

For all of you that think a dentist is hilarious, you've probably never had to deal with the UK health system. Your doctors (if you go NHS) are assigned by neighborhood, and most dental surgeries (offices) do not take new patients. Meaning you can't get a dentist at all.

If you have private insurance that covers dental (which is rare), then you can see a private dentist. Otherwise, just a cleaning will cost well north of $400.

This is the same gambit as "we give you free/subsidized" meals. It's just to keep employees billing more, close to the office.

BTW, it is extremely common for large UK employers (like investment banks) to have on-site drop-in medical care, since getting an appt with a doctor or even going to the casualty (emergency room) can mean days of waiting. The alternative is dialing in vain at the open-of-office to try to get through to schedule a same day appt with your assigned surgery (dental or medical).

It's not as awesome as Michael Moore portrayed in Sicko. I can tell you that.

American Expat

76 - Yes, and quite a few sleazy M&A and Corporate Finance partners couldn't hide how attractive they thought a number of the female summers were ... the differential treatment these girls received was pretty disgusting.

I second the comment to stay away from Jones Day DC. Salaries are indeed below the market. You'll start at market, and then everyone slowly falls behind. And no bonuses really hurt. Morale here isn't great---which is reflected in the large number of mid-level defections and the need to constantly turn to the lateral market to fill positions.

Comment re: PH...don't go there if you want to litigate. At least in LA, they are dead in the water and no one has anything to do. Associates are jumping ship.

And yeah, the pregnancy/layoff thing.

TTT.

I work at Jones Day, Nights, and Weekends. I was about average at a top 10 school, billed about 2000 hours, and received a market bonus. Most people in my office have the same profile- top school and/or law review. I work as much as or less than my friends at KE, MoFo, Skadden, and Latham. The comments in these threads are always strange to me, like they're talking about some other firm. They are the same comments that I heard repeated at OCI (from law students, who heard from other law students) and found to be incorrect.

My selection process was pretty simple: I wanted financial stability, recognizability with Fortune 500 companies (I hope to go in-house), and more work than associates so that substantive projects trickle down to me as a junior. That left me a handful of firms (fewer than you'd think) after doing some real digging on those questions. Among those firms, I just picked one where I met some people that I liked. It's worked out well for me and I have no regrets. I have exactly the same biglaw benefits and complaints as everyone else.

That said, I'm sure the experience varies office to office. JD pays $160k in Houston, so maybe a bonus isn't necessary to keep pace with market compensation (I have no idea whether Houston gets bonuses or what market is there). They will start paying a bonus in DC when they have difficulty attracting and retaining top people for the I&A practice, and not before. Those seem like perfectly ordinary business decisions to me.

If you're in OCI, the point is this: Do your own research and get your own information. If you're concerned about the hours requirement or bonus policy somewhere (this goes for any office of any firm), ask point blank before you accept your offer. I did, and I found that the law school echo chamber was basically bullshit.

I spent the summer at OMM and it was a wonderful place to work. Aside from the work (which is top notch), the people are fantastic and the environment makes it an ideal place to be. OMM is very supportive of associates branching out and getting government experience so that the associates can come back and bring their enhanced skills and newly formed contacts back to OMM, which helps the firm grow in the long term. I think it's a mistake to read one or two bad comments about the firm and think that everyone's experience there is the same. One of the best indicators of happiness at a firm is whether the people choose to spend time with one another outside of the office, and at O'Melveny, the attorneys go out together, vacation together, etc...they truly like one another.

The attorneys vacation together? Sounds like hell.

OMM attorneys vacation together? That's truly frightening

OMM attorneys are literally chained together.

I am at Jones Day Chicago. Most new associates (and summers) are from top schools, top third of the class. The rest of the new kids are from regional schools, top of the class.

Bonus in Chicago office has been very good, but will admit that it appears my bonus has been slightly less than a couple other chicago firms (i.e. Kirkland, McDermott).

Quality of work has been better than expected. I imagine this has more to do with practice group, however. Atmosphere has been excellent.

Based on personal observance, I believe I am putting in as many hours (nights and weekends included) as those at similar sized firms (i.e. Sidley, Kirkland, etc.).

Great looking building and floors. Decent sized offices.

Downside: talking about numbers in the firm (bonuses, PPP, revenues, hours) is a no-no. Longer partnership track than many firms (but only 1 partnership tier). If you care about diversity: we lack it.

whoever said that JD hires top 1/3 at any law school in the top 100 can't be serious. if this was true, then not only would JD have many many more law students from crappier schools then it did this summer (i just finished up a wonderful summer there), but it would be much easier for kids in the top 100 law schools to land a job there. i found the only kids outside of the t25 (with the exception of a few) were IP specialists.

I chose jones day from a number of firms when doing OCI mostly because I liked the atmosphere/people as I found most of the vault 50 firms vastly indistinguishable in terms of work/hours when i was interviewing ( how different they really are i will probably never know unless I end up going to a different one). I had a great summer and found the majority of the new associates were also from top law schools. and even if it is true that JD looks past the top50 law schools, they look past it for the very top students and the lower ranked schools, not simply the top 1/3 %.

I had a great summer and am proud to return in the fall of 2009.

PH is terribly run. The leadership has no concept of how to make the firm global. They are spending too much money on the global push, which is harming LA/NY. Meanwhile, the US-focus means that the rest of the offices are forced to run on the US model and encouraged to avoid developing an understanding of local differences. Guess who pays the price? In the US, the associates are treated like crap, paid nothing, and not given any notable perks. Abroad, associates on the front lines are forced to apologize for their idiotic superiors who've insulted the clients or have no clue about, you know, the law and cutting their hours like crazy because the mothership has no understanding of the pricing in different markets.

Bonuses suck. A mysterious and entirely unfair system. Especially for all the associates who didn't make hours because they were told to cut hours. So nice - work hard, but don't bill everything for the good of your firm ... oh sorry, you didn't make hours, no bonus for you-hoooo.

As for Milbank, avoid. 5 years ago Milbank and Latham were about the same in terms of prestige and other rankings. Look at the difference now. Hmmmm.... although, yes, at least Milbank does pay bonuses. If you don't mind just treading water, no prestige, mid-level cases, fairly nice people with a sprinkling of idiots (like anywhere), and really hard working hours but making a fair salary, or you couldn't get a better offer, Milbank's for you. I don't know about Milbank's non-US offices though.

174 wrote (a Jones Day associate in Chi): "Bonus in Chicago office has been very good, but will admit that it appears my bonus has been slightly less than a couple other chicago firms (i.e. Kirkland, McDermott)."

Wait...one second...there...I've now picked myself up off of the floor and returned to my seat. I must stay focused lest another violent fit of laughter eject me from my chair.

JD Chicago bonuses "slightly less" than Kirkland?

Kirkland bonuses for first years have recently been roughly $35k (give or take $5k). After that, it's Mayer Brown, Sidley, Jenner, Winston and MWE, rough in the $20k range (with Skadden, Latham, PH typically paying their national bonuses).

While JD is excellent firm and well-regarded by many of its associates, the one complaint I've heard from them is with regard to bonuses. Not the Sidley sort of complaint (i.e., "if we're Kirkland's peer firm, why are our bonuses lower?"), but the "my JD bonus, if any, was less than my regular paycheck."

165 - this is for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZCzKko03W4

yours,
-40

Jones Day is AWFUL. Work there only as a last resort.

174 -- Hilarious that you think that Jones Day has only one level of partnership. The firm does a great job of keeping associates uninformed, I guess. They have 2 tiers -- nonequity and equity. The first, you can make after 9.5 years. The second -- well, nobody really knows, but maybe another 5.

I'm about to start my 3rd year at JD, my experience so far has been really good. There are a few hard asses here and there but for the most part the people I've worked with are genuinely nice and professional. I've formed real friendships with a number of my colleagues ranging from paralegals to 8th year associates and this seems to be common.

I know that they didn't pay bonuses to most associates about 7 years ago but I also know they paid a steep price for it have seemed to have learned their lesson. I barely billed 1900 hours last year and got a great review and the market bonus for class of 2006 (45k).

The unique thing about Jones Day for a first year is that you can spend the year trying out all the practice groups you're interested in. I tried IP litigation, capital markets, M&A, employee benefits and the banking/finance groups. Most friends in other firms had to pick a group or two or were on forced rotations when they started. That doesn't make sense to me because it's an important life decision and it's impossible to know what you want coming out of law school .

For a biglaw firm, I'm almost happy here. I hope this is useful. Now it's time to get back to work!

It's been a while since I was at Mayer Brown, but I still keep in touch with people there.

The suits against the firm have generally resulted out of a "rogue" partner off doing something he should not have been without much oversight - things like substantive changes to opinions, e-mails with false statements, etc. Sure, you can call these "bottomfeeder" lawsuits, but they're not the kinds of things smart law firms have to deal with as much.

And that ignores all the financial issues. If any summer of junior associate really thinks that the fact that equity partners aren't getting draws in multiple consecutive months is not a big deal, then you are too clueless to be a lawyer. They're paying associates because they are required to by law and because they know that failing to pay associates on time would effectively end the ability of the firm to survive. That they have such severe financial problems should concern everyone who works for them or is considering working for them.

Finally, the management changes over the last five years have been pretty significant. Ty held everyone together and kept people happy and made everyone money. The current system is not doing that at all. I honestly think that a law students would be very unwise to take an offer at MB over Sidley, Kirkland, Latham or even many of the national firms trying to build in Chicago.

Frankly, though, couldn't have happened to a bigger bunch of assholes (and I say this having worked at several large law firms and having engaged large law firms).

142 and other MB haters:

Get a grip.

The DC office of MB has a bunch of attorneys who practice in "international" areas. We have a bunch of attorneys who were not born in the US. While I appreciate uninformed people talking smack (and do so myself frequently), it seems stupid to compare where three people went to law school when there are nearly 170 attorneys practicing in DC - not exactly a representative sample.

I can't say what effect Refco has on partners, I'm not one. I can say it has no effect on my practice - I'm busy, my group is busy and we enjoy working with one another.

The same holds true the talk about senior management - it doesn't affect associates.

I recognize the desire to rely on uninformed opinions offered by people who may have been practicing for a year or two but for the vast majority of people, you don't end your career at the firm where your career began. With respect to most big law firms, the work is mostly the same - go work where you like the people with whom you will be spending the majority of your time. If you can't get along with them it doesn't matter if you are handling the biggest litigation or the world's greatest deal - your job will suck.

JONES DAY

#181 - 45K bonus for Class of 06? You must be from the NY office. If you like your bonus (or simply being compensated at or near market), then stay in NY -- if you move to another JD office, you can kiss all of that good-bye. Unless of course, you are one of the "chosen" associates being groomed for partner -- even then, it is not a sure thing

#169 - JD's Texas offices may pay $160k to 1st years but they are not, by any stretch of the imagination, compensating their associates at market....unless of course you define "market" as second tier firms in their respective cities. By that I mean, JD is FAR BELOW MARKET when it comes to the top firms -- V&E, Fulbright, BB, etc. This is particuarly true for mid to senior associates.

Generally speaking, there are no bonuses to speak of in Texas...I've heard of a handful being paid out last year, but they were all in the 5-10K range (keep in mind that these are sr associates).

Mayer Brown was unable to make offers to all of its summer associates in Chicago.

Hey, Jones Day is probably the only place that had to "let go" an associate from its Cleveland office because the associate was using his office trash can as a crapper. So it has that going for it.

182 is pretty much spot on. Refco became the mess that it was because the MB compensation system does not reward partners who assist originating partners. As a result, Collins was way out of his league in handling the sale to THL and the subsequent public offering. Had a seasoned corporate/securities lawyer (Collins's specialty is B/D and derivaties work) been involved, they may not be in the condition they are in now.

And make no mistake, the paper thin insurance coverage is real. After the CFS settlement, the firm was put on notice that any more large settlements would result in either no coverage or prohibitively expensive coverage.

They could get out of this unscathed, but I think the odds are against them. After all, who completely skates away scot free when sued for a total of $8 billion. There will likely be very large settlements and then we'll see what happns to their coverage going forward. And if it was fraud on the part of Collins (which IMO is unlikely), then it's all over.

Here are my thoughts on the various Ropes questions:

Q: Heard Ropes paid above market to some midlevels last year. Can anyone confirm?
A: It depends on the associate. Billing machines will make more (well above market).

Q: Does anyone have any info/insight with regard to Ropes NY?
A: Go to the Ropes hiring website: http://www.ropesgrayhiring.com/index.asp

Q: One specific question I have is how large is their non-IP litigation department, i.e., how large is the litigation department excluding IP?
A: 30% of the litigation in NY is non-IP.

Q: How are the litigation partners?
A: Lots are laterals, not very many are organic "Ropes". I hear they are decent to work for though.

Q: Is their corporate department busy despite the slow economy?
A: It's slower, but still relatively busy. Lots of crap deals coming down the pipeline.

Q: Any other info/insight is strongly appreciated.
A: Go to the Ropes hiring website: http://www.ropesgrayhiring.com/index.asp

Q: Any color on Ropes bonuses and whether they can compete with K&E, seeing how Ropes just opened an office in Chicago. Anyone have any insight into their Chicago office?
A: Ropes won't set the market, but they will match it. Whatever it is in Chicago.

Q: Does anyone know whether Ropes Chicago will be recruiting for next summer?
A: Yes - spoke to the Northwest interview partner, they are aggressively recruiting for Chicago summer class.

Q: If so, what is the estimated number of summers?
A: Total guess, but they will take as many qualified people as they can get. 15-20 is not unlikely. They are definitely in a "growth" state of mind in all offices.

Q: Are there advantages or disadvantages to working in a start up satellite office (e.g. Ropes Chicago)?
A: It depends on a firm and how their satellite office culture. Some firms have fairly independent satellites (e.g., you work on local matters, with the local attorneys, etc). Ropes is not like this; a lawyer's physical geography is really an afterthought. There is lots of cross-office staffing.

Q: I am wondering about positive things such as the ability to work directly with partners and potential early responsibility as well as the negative things like potential lack of resources and slow deal flow.
A: Again, it depends on the firm -- not sure this is a function of satellite offices per se.

Vault ranks firms by .001 and most people only know about a firm via Vault rankings --- hrmmmmm.

Vault is irrelevant beyond a broad classification of a firm. If you really want to know what's up with a firm -- look at AmLaw stats.

Milbank has strong profitability (i.e., stability), a strong group of practice areas, and attracts good people.

186: He got shitcanned for a shit can?

136

Where would you put the head of your Practice focused on India?

136

Where would you put the head of your Practice focused on India?

About Linklaters, the previous posters who said that there are opportunities to be posted to overseas offices, and opportunities for international travel are correct. The only problem is if you're working until 10 PM every night, you're not really going to see anything except for your American and British co-workers at the office.

Many of the posters seem to be from the NYC office. I spent several years in the London office, and my experience was horrible. Face time there was very important--even if there is nothing to do, if you leave before 7 / 7:30, you will be noticed. British work culture seems to expect you to devote your entire life to your job--there is a reason they provide a gym, doctor, and dentist at the London office--it is because they expect you to spend every waking moment at the office.

And the worst thing (which was also discussed on last year's Links thread) is that you have no access to outside email (or IM). It is a real hassle to get home from work at 9 or 10 pm, and have 10-20 personal emails that you have to respond to. Last year people talked about how there are special computers set aside for you to be able to check personal emails--that may be true for NYC, but in London it took me several months to even find out where they were (and they were quite a ways from my office), and of course, if people see you there checking your email more than once or twice a week, it will get around.

Another problem: in London they make you pay for personal LOCAL phone calls! Unless your call is VERY short, you are required to put in your personal billing number (to have the cost deducted from your paycheck) EVEN FOR LOCAL CALLS!

I felt like I had no life, because I couldn't ever take care of personal matters at work. The only time I had at home was spent taking care of random crap that I could've have taken care of at work during down time, if I had access to email and telephones.

The comments here about OMM are completely worthless. I, too, summered at OMM and it was a fantastic experience. The lawyers are brilliant, the clients are first rate, and the work is challenging and exciting. I had 3 other offers at vault 20 firms but chose OMM on account of the things I heard about the firm from family friends who are biglaw partners and from other lawyers with whom I have spoken. I would recommend that any 2L entertain an OMM offer seriously. The firm is top-notch and has earned the highest respect of many of the best lawyers in the country. Bottom line: Lat and Co. (for reasons unknown) have a bone to pick with OMM. The comments simply reflect the bias that ATL has created.

Let's be serious. Every biglaw firm in this tier has been laying a few people off for the past 12-15 months. For some reason, O'Melveny was the first firm that Lat heard about through his rumor mill, so he decided to toll the death knell. Give me a break. O'Melveny was the scapegoat. Mayer brown and several others were axing people well before O'Melveny.

For all those defending MB, saying what a happy place it is and it doesn't matter that no equity partners have been paid this year...

I note with interest that the head of MB's bankuptcy group left the firm yesterday.

What do the various uninformed junior associates and HR trolls have to say about this?

72, I thought the partners at Hogan were really nice, and certainly nicer than partners at another more prestigious firm I had worked at, but I wasn't too thrilled with the other associates.

I love how the OMM staff pose as summers to promote O'Melveny... fact is the firm is in trouble. Some offices are in much better shape than others but I can promise you that NY is a sinking ship... but they do one hell of a spin with their summer associates.

"The lady doth protest too much"=phenomenon applicable to every positive Jones Day comment on here.

response to 188/120/57 re Ropes: Litigation in NY - don't do it unless you are IP. the numbers posted by 188 do not jibe with reality. possibly 70% of non-IP litigation is brought in through NY partners (and thus is credited to NY for billing purposes), but no way is that work evenly distributed between Boston and NY. as for boni, Ropes was generally very high the past couple years. that is unlikely to be repeated. during the last recession, Ropes paid miserly boni. that may or may not happen again, but Ropes will not pay above-market bonuses again. as for general work environment, it's a fine place to be an associate, but it is virtually impossible to make partner unless you pick a fairly obscure practice area like int'l tax or mutual funds.

194: I spent time at Linklaters London recently. I don't recall ever having to pay for my local calls in the office. Even the long ones. You do not have to enter any codes to dial local. They do expect you to pay for your longer personal phone calls on the mobile phone. But people would abuse it otherwise.

There was no face time issue for me there, but maybe it depends on the practice area you are in and the specific partners you work for.

Agreed it is terrible that you can't check personal email from your own office. I have no issue with personal IM. Terrible source of procrastination.

I find it odd you say you "couldn't ever take care of personal matters at work." I think maybe it's you, not being comfortable with going out to run errands or using the gym in the middle of the day during your down time.

Um. Does anyone else get the idea that the guy trashing Mayer Brown (with lots of !!!!! and f*&ks) is a disgruntled not-quite-top-law-school grad who got rejected by Mayer? No one wastes enough of their time throwing out so much exaggerated hate toward a law firm unless their ego was bruised by that firm. Anyway, I don't know much about Mayer except it's a "right" firm in the prestige sense. I went to one of the big midwestern law schools and it was viewed as part of the Big Three in Chicago (Kirkland, Mayer, Sidley). As far as I know, they have zero problems recruiting HYS types. Opening a firm's web page and looking at the first four people on a firm's website is the most retarded way of statistically determining the "elite" percentage of lawyers in a firm I've ever seen. I just did the same thing for my firm's (top 15 -- whatever that means) lawyers and you get the same misguided impression. Imbecile.

Anyway, on Jones Day, I hear negative comments about the lifestyle there. I interviewed years ago with MoFo and hated them. But that was not in their LA office. It's also not generally wise to listen to opinions of people on this site as to whether people are total a-holes or not at a given firm. There are way too many people at these BigLaw law firms today to accurately make any kind of generalized assessment. My two cents anyway.

As far as biglaw goes, Milbank is fine. The offices are really nice, cafeteria is great, the people are generally nice (although there are the usual d-bags), the partners are generally good. The deals and cases are not going to be the high profile ones that V10 will usually see but the pay is the same and I think your hours will be slightly better than at other firms.

204, you're talking about the NY office right?

2Ls considering O'Melveny Century City should be warned that they have been known to no-offer, even to summers who did "excellent work" and were social.

205, yes. NY office. Transportation and Project Finance are top.

BTW: the coffee on each floor sucks.

Let me explain something about Jones Day:

(1) It is very hard for them to keep talented associates. The work at any other big firm is the same, the hours are the same (or better---with the small exception of a few places that are known to be sweatshops just like Jones Day is), but the pay is BETTER at other firms and other firms are more upfront about partnership chances. As to the two latter points: Every other firm is more clear about what you will be making from year to year, and are more clear about what you need to do in order to make it. Jones Day keeps it a secret and hides behind a "merit" explanation. That is exit reason No. 1 for associates. Jones Day is also very unclear about partnership chances---it is widely known that you are considered after your tenth year of practice, but with "annual" reviews only every TWO years (they do a review every year, but they only do a SUBSTANTIVE review every other year), associates are really kept in the dark concerning their chances. They brag about the raw number of partners made each year "from up the ranks / from within" but the numbers on a percentage basis are not different from any other firm. The associates that stick around are the ones that got lucky and are working for one of the few non-sweatship partners (or some other reason where they conclude "Quality of life is going to be a wash in any move, so why chance not likeing another firm?").

(2) Because they lose so many associates, Jones Day is forced to turn to the lateral market. Here they face a Catch-22, because if they are upfront with laterals about the salary non-structure and the hidden partnership chances, no one would come. This is one of the great benefits to sites like Above The Law, because it allows people to figure out what the real story is rather than rely upon (and trust) vague statements from the firm itself.

I'm not sure I understand the Jones Day bashing. I'm a junior associate in the NY office and I love my firm. The lawyers here in general are smart and nice and supportive of each other. My pay for the last few years has been on par with the rest of the New York market. My hours have been great for the most part. Because I do transactional work, I have the usual ups and downs in work flow, but because our firm does not have face time, I feel free to come in at 11 a.m. on some days and/or leave at 5 p.m. when work is slow.