first?

I haven't heard a single good thing about Kaye Scholer (NY).

Can someone explain to me why Cahill is this low on the list, with (1) super-high profits per partner and (2) Floyd Abrams (gunner bait)?

3- really? anybody else got thoughts on Kaye Scholer (NY)

What do people think of Heller Ehrman?

foley is a great shop

Many of these firms have been in ATL for not-good reasons:

Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal - lawyer layoffs

Bingham McCutchen LLP - staff layoffs

Greenberg Traurig, LLP - general TTT-ness

Holland & Knight LLP - staff layoffs

Heller Ehrman LLP - partner defections

K&L Gates LLP - delayed start dates

how QOL at Kaye Scholer?

At K&L Gates, Newark, you get to be randomly screamed at with respect to cases you haven't even worked on.

Any thoughts on Steptoe?

Wow, we're really getting to the bottom of the barrel now.

HTH.

KLG at least gave offers to all of its intelligent summers in its newly acquired Charlotte office (formerly Kennedy Covington). Heard of only one flat out rejection there.

I heard that Steptoe no-offered three summers in the Bratislava office. Can anyone confirm?

4 - one reason is that Cahill only really has a NY office and is not well known nationally. Also, it doesn't seem that Cahill makes a huge effort to market itself in the way that firms like DLA, Weill, Skadden, etc. market themselves. That said, in NY Cahill has a reputation for hiring very intelligent attorneys and being a hard-charging litigation house.

heller is finished as a law firm.

My opinion on Kaye Scholer is that it is this far down the list because of a less than stellar corporate side, but will ride the downturn much better than most in its class for the exact same reason. Stellar product liability defense shop (I think Chambers has them #1, solid IP lit, general lit, real estate, and bankruptcy practices. QOL isn't necessarily as good as at some comparable firms though, I think they're near the bottom on the midlevel surveys.

Why is Cahill ranked #61 in prestige? It seems like a pretty good place to work. The PPP is impressive for a firm of its size. Anyone else with an opinion on Cahill?

QOL at Kaye Scholer? Dismal on a good day.

LOL@"intelligent summers in Charlotte office"

Right.

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

I have worked with Kaye Scholer attorneys, and my colleagues against them, on cases. Neither I nor my colleagues have been impressed with them at all (litigation). They tend to massively overwork a file, driving up costs and frustration on all sides without accomplishing much for their clients. So, it might be easy to meet your billables, but you won't learn much about how to effectively litigate a case.

heller is full of total limp dick homos

16- can you elaborate? I am a 2L and have an interview with them.

heller is full of total limp dick homos

heller is full of total limp dick homos

heller is full of total limp dick homos

Cahill is a quality firm-- this ranking does not accurately reflect its reputation in NYC (I do not work there)

Sigh...it took only 21 comments before the blanket TTT comment came out.

18 - I also attended BLS and now work at Cahill. All I can say is, take the "prestige" ratings with a grain of salt. Their methodology is to send surveys to associates who then rank the firms. The ratings may be very different if the firms were ranked by counsel for the clients who hire firms, judges or partners at various firms. The high revenues at Cahill say a lot about how well regarded the firm is among clients. Also, there are at least three federal judges sitting up the street from Cahill's offices who started at Cahill. Personally, it was my first choice out of all the firms that interviewed at Brooklyn and I think its a great place to work.

If you are going to practice in Milwaukee, and I know many people that absolutely love it, you can live like a king on Foley's salary. Foley's salary in Milwaukee probably gives you more earning power than Kirkland's salary + bonus in chicago.

Cahill's reputation in NYC is in the top tier with respect to its capital markets work and its work representing banks. It has been involved in almost EVERY big buyout and big financing. But with that said, it's corporate practice is very very narrowly focused. But they are the best at representing underwriters. I work for firm that represents companies that always need money and Cahill is always on other side, always.

Heller Ehrman supposedly canceled all interviewers at UVA.

Foley is a good shop. They're a little conservative on expansion/comp issues, but their two-tier salary schedule is great for people looking to balance work and life.

24, I'm not 16, but I'll comment. I don't agree that Heller is finished as a law firm, but there is enough bad news coming from Heller (partners have left, possible/failed mergers) that if you have the option of going elsewhere, that would be the safe move.

cahill is a sweatshop. PPP = amount of money partners take for themselves. ie cheap partnership. treats associates poorly.

i have friends there who just work their asses off with little respect, gratitude. no reason to go there if you have an offer from comprable firms.

I'd cancel all my interviews at UVA too. UVA = TTT ... wait, it's a much better law school than I went to ... dammmmmn it.

34 - Point of clarification: Conservative on expansion and compensation means Foley doesn't have massive attorney lay-offs. Foley would rather cancel a stupid retreat than can people. Props to that.

So what's more stressful: representing companies that are raising money or representing banks that are helping to issue the debt/equity/loans? It seems like the shit work is company-side, but I don't know enough about this world to say.

I can confirm the Steptoe no-offers in the Bratislava office.

4 - another reason is that Cahill's practice, at least on the corporate side, has traditionally been fairly narrow, representing i-banks on leveraged loans and HY offerings. For a law student who has no idea what practicing at a corporate firm entails, a larger firm with much broader practice areas might seem less threatening.

The irony is that at many of these larger firms, there's a good chance that you'll get pigeonholed into a certain practice group or function with little opportunity to seek work outside of it. The same can't be said for firms w/ a less formal internal structure (ie Gibson, Cleary, Cahill, etc.).

I summered at Greenberg in NYC and my experience was great. Everyone got offers and everyone accepted. Looking forward to working there.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

12:31 - so the comparable firms _do_ treat associates with respect and gratitude? I don't know anything about Cahill, but they've certainly gone under the radar on this site. Probably good news.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

17 is either drinking the kool aid or a partner trying to pump up Kaye.

At my high school, guys used to post the same thing 28 times in a row all the time. It was no big deal.

36; maybe I'm just cynical, but I don't see many partners at Wall Street law firms tripping over themselves to express gratitude and respect to their associates. All large law firms are sweatshops to some extent.

Dear 44-55 (with the exception of 46),

Fuck off and die. 43 can stay.

Cheers!

thoughts on kaye scholer (ny) v. goodwin procter (ny) for IP?

Foley has a fabulous IP practice. One of the former partners is on the Fed Circuit right now.

Foley isnt doing layoffs but none of my friends who summered there have heard about their offers yet. They loved the firm but both are worried about no-offers and cold-offers. Glad I got my offer before i left.

The Bingham McCutchen marriage is having difficulty. Many of the McCutchen Doyle legacies have left.

42: your experience is anomalous.

Sheesh, get over it Cahill and Foley trolls.

Steptoe thoughts?

I summered at Greenberg in Chicago and, like 42, had a great experience and look forward to returning. I don't think 42's experience was anomalous at all. Greenberg was named the U.S. Law Firm of the Year in 2007 by Chambers and definitely continues to move in the right direction.

What is 17 trying to do?

Which of these has the best Bratislava office?

17 - Really?? Solid RE practice at Kaye?? I heard they have been doing stealth layoffs lately. Not surprising since they are pretty much a one-trick pony (CMBS). And what's going on with the Celanese suit?

Steptoe & Johnson shares its name with some craptastic podunk West Virginia firm: http://www.steptoelaw.com

Anyone have any thoughts on whether 17 is drinking the koolaid?

30 - that was the sense I got from my OCI interview. Cahill definitely got a great rep among friends in school and at firms. Really hope my callback turns into an offer.

I summered at K&L Gates in Boston last year. I was impressed with the firm, the work, and the caliber of attorneys who work there. I look forward to returning this fall.

guys in my high school used to snort Kool-Aid all the time. It was no big deal.

Joe Biden: what the fuck is with that guy's hair?

I'm back on jdate!

I'm back on jdate!

To 61: Foley's Chcago office has made it clear that summer associates who are looking forward to joining the transactional department should expect offers from litigation department.

just confirming #61's comment re Foley's summers--they still haven't heard re offers, and the firm is actively interviewing recruits for next year. This is a big gaffe. Who wants to recommend your firm to a 2L if you're not sure the firm is going to invite you back?

75,

Biden had plugs about 10-15 years ago. It was early plugs so it looks like what it looks like.

57, I'm not the OP, but while all wall street firms may make you work long hours, there is a difference between that and being treated with respect. I have worked at more than one biglaw firm, worked similar hours at them, and been subject to a wide range of how "respectfully" I have been treated.

6: Heller Ehrman is full of excellent attorneys and until very recently was considered one of the most prestigious firms in SF.

However, as reported extensively by ATL, the firm has been experiencing a rough patch over the last year or so (partner departures, decrease in revenue, delayed start dates, etc.). It is unclear, at this point, if they will weather the storm. A merger or disbandment are both real possibilities. In short, joining Heller would be a risky move.

to 78: at least they have offers. I'm not in the market but if had a choice between none, cold or litigation I'd pick litigation any day.

Kaye has a very strong sports practice. That was David Stern's firm and they still do a lot of the work for the NBA. They are very good in other areas of sports law.

Foley also has a very good sports practice - and is easily the best firm in Wisconsin.

Anybody have anything on Sonnenschein besides the Charlotte bloodshed earlier this year? I'm looking at one of their other offices, but the Charlotte thing has me worried

I hear K&L Gates is awesome - its ranking sure has improved a lot. Any inside info?

Another GT summer here. I had a good experience in one of the smaller offices and would recommend it to a 2L. The firm tends to get a bad wrap on ATL because of its lack of pedigree (read: based in Miami) and the Abramoff scandal.

Financially, this firm is probably one of the most secure out there because of their business model. Something folks should give more thought to in this economy.

Kaye is a decent place to work. Doesn't perform so well in the Vault or mid-level associate surveys, so obviously some people aren't happy (but PPP and RPL consistently tend to be on the higher end of the spectrum). It's a top notch litigation shop, especially in terms of product liability...corporate is a bit weak, but that's not the focus of the firm. Overall, I've enjoyed my time here.

I'm a K&L Gates associate, and I don't hate my life (unlike everyone else I keep in touch with from law school working in biglaw).

Sonnenschein rescinded offers to incoming first years and summers, in FREAKING APRIL. I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot poll.

85, my advice is to take sonnenschein if you have no other biglaw offers. otherwise, i wouldn't go there.

having your offer rescinded in april could fuck over your biglaw ambitions.

84, Foley is a full-blown international law firm, but its not that hard to be the best firm in Wisconsin (which they have been for years). Also, outside of Milwaukee, where else is Foley known for its sports law practice? Honest question.

36 said "cahill is a sweatshop. PPP = amount of money partners take for themselves. ie cheap partnership. treats associates poorly.

i have friends there who just work their asses off with little respect, gratitude. no reason to go there if you have an offer from comprable firms."

I work at Cahill, and this is nothing like my experience. Not sure what you mean by "cheap" partnership, but Cahill always, always, always matches salary and bonus. We also get market benefits and a decent tech stipend. There's a flaw in your logic if you're assuming that high PPP have anything to do with how the partners treat associates. If the partners are cheap in some other way, it doesn't bother me.

Also, the partners I work with are pretty good about expressing gratitude for hard work. If your friends wanted more hand holding, they came to the wrong place. The reason to come to Cahill if you have offers from other firms (as everyone who comes to Cahill surely does) is that you aren't coddled -- you're treated like a lawyer and allowed/expected to act like one.

86 - Pete Kalis? Is that you...?

Thanks, 90 & 91. I didn't realize they rescinded offers across the board; I thought it was limited to the one office. I appreciate the heads up.

-85

Was told all K&L summers were given offers.

One reason Cahill has such high PPP is the bleak partnership prospects. Extremely difficult to make partner, because existing partners are very concerned about their profits.

Though from everything I've heard, it's still a solid place to work. Just be wary if you have high ambitions of making partner.

Foley is a great firm. Old school in a good way -- they still believe in training and mentoring, and (as noted above) they really do care about their people. Very sophisticated practices in both transactional and litigation. Especially well known for healthcare and IP.

How are the exit opportunities at Cahill? Anyone know?

23 - Can you elaborate? I'm a 2L and I have an interview with them.

Any comments or thoughts on Steptoe's small Chicago office?

78 isn't true. foley doesn't make department specific offers, and the chicago summers have been told no such thing.

I split my summer between a V10 firm in NY and Foley in midwest. Compared to NY, Foley people are nicer. They also have better work/life balance. The disadvantage about foley is the bonus system, which is contingent on your billable hours. But foley's salary enables you to live like a king in midwest.

I split my summer between a V10 firm in NY and Foley in midwest. Compared to NY, Foley people are nicer. They also have better work/life balance. The disadvantage about foley is the bonus system, which is contingent on your billable hours. But foley's basic salary enables you to live like a king in midwest.

I split my summer between a V10 firm in NY and Foley in midwest. Compared to NY, Foley people are nicer. They also have better work/life balance. The disadvantage about foley is the bonus system, which is contingent on your billable hours. But foley's basic salary enables you to live like a king in midwest.

I split my summer between a V10 firm in NY and Foley in midwest. Compared to NY, Foley people are nicer. They also have better work/life balance. The disadvantage about foley is the bonus system, which is contingent on your billable hours. But foley's basic salary enables you to live like a king in midwest.

haha sorry about your tiny pink law firm, bro.

All K&L Gates summers got offers because they hired conservatively and got great people.

Hey 86--I agree with 89 and 108. I'm an associate at K&L and I definitely do not hate my life. This is a contrast compared to everyone else I know from law school.

This was posted in another thread last night, but to no avail, so here goes:

Can anybody speak on the character and fitness investigation for the Oregon State Bar? Is it as intensive as, say, California, in that they require fingerprints and send everything to the feds?

S&J lunch freebies are good for new Associates and summers, largely reimburseable. The mentoring program is getting better, and lunch with your mentor is always free.

Did ATL already post about Heller Ehrman delaying start dates for NY incoming associates until January 2009? Friend of mine was told last week by phone that his start date will not be until January. I don't remember if ATL posted about this already

Bingham is awesome.

Sonnenschein didn't rescind my offer. How come the April rescissions didn't make ATL news? It should have, shouldn't it? Is #90 making it up?

85 and 114 - Sonnenschein only rescinded offers in Charlotte. The Charlotte office is an anomaly. As far as the other offices go, it depends on which one you are considering. The Chicago office seems busy.

115 - know anything about the St. Louis office?

As to whether to go to Sonnenschein, the firm is in a transition stage. They are looking to merge which could be good or bad.

During my interview with Kaye Scholer NY, the interviewer intimated that people don't work as hard as at "the other firms."

110 - That's any state bar.

If you have something criminal on your record, they absolutely will find out about it - and you are dead meat if you didn't disclose it to your law school. You just wasted three years and $150K.

Otoh, if you did fully disclose it to your law school and it wasn't something related to fraud, you will probably be alright. People have been admitted to the bar with murder convictions.

-

Foley did its big "feeder" OCI this week at Wisconsin,, and are hitting Berkely on Friday. I wouldn't read anything into not telling the summer class about offers, though.

Good firm, institution, will take care of you. No layoffs, no de-equitization, pays market comp in major markets, above market salary in Milwaukee and waaaay above market incentives in Milwaukee.

110 - That's any state bar.

If you have something criminal on your record, they absolutely will find out about it - and you are dead meat if you didn't disclose it to your law school. You just wasted three years and $150K.

Otoh, if you did fully disclose it to your law school and it wasn't something related to fraud, you will probably be alright. People have been admitted to the bar with murder convictions.

-

Foley did its big "feeder" OCI this week at Wisconsin,, and are hitting Berkely on Friday. I wouldn't read anything into not telling the summer class about offers, though.

Good firm, institution, will take care of you. No layoffs, no de-equitization, pays market comp in major markets, above market salary in Milwaukee and waaaay above market incentives in Milwaukee.

I am a former Steptoe paralegal and current Biglaw assoc. Steptoe DC is a nice place to work. Full of very smart, well-pedigreed attorneys who value the gentile firm culture, and having a life. When I worked there, by 6:30 the vast majority of the offices were empty. They have also had a lot of organic growth in the last few years.

If I moved to DC, I would consider working at Steptoe, even though my current firm is ranked more than 50 spots higher by vault.

Kaye Scholer definitely has a better work-life balance than other biglaw firms in NY. The firm doesn't cap pro bono hours towards billables (which I appreciate) and it has a really casual and social environment. Great place to work.

116 - The St. Louis office of Sonnenschein is really busy too. The IP practice (probably anywhere) is a solid bet too.

121 - are you saying Steptoe is full of attorneys who value the non-Jew firm culture??

108: Not all KLG's summers got offers (at least one did not).

20: Contrary to what I'm guessing your world view is, plenty of smart people could care less about living in NYC. I'll take 160k and a big house in Charlotte over 160k and a small apartment in NYC any day of the week.

Doesn't anyone remember the Bingham ruffie scandal?

121: please share with us what the "gentile firm culture" entails. LOL.

119,120: It was burglary and theft (both felony level) as a juvenile. The record was sealed pursuant to state statute. The statute reads that once the record is sealed, the court treats the sealed events as if they never happened, and the subject of sealed records may answer as such to any inquiry. I go to law school in the same state, and I followed what the statute says and didn't disclose it on my law school application. Although the school's application currently asks about sealed and expunged records, I don't think it did when I applied. Even if it did, It seems to me that as long as I was following the statutory guidance, I don't think they can penalize me for that. Unfortunately, none of this took place in Oregon, and I'm not sure how much deferrence they will give to the laws of my home state. Thoughts?

I absolutely love K&L Gates - it is the law firm of the future.

128 - This is a rather important question.

Did the law school you applied to (and any other law school you applied to) specify that you must state arrests, convictions, citations, etc. even if the record has been sealed, pardoned or expunged?

Character and fitness follows different rules than, say, employers. They are typically interested in what actually happened, not what you managed to pull off legally.

If it did not specifically ask that, you might be okay - so long as none of them that did ask it had you answer "no" - fully expect character and fitness to go find them.

Under absolutely no circumstances lie to the state bar. Ask them if you have to include juvenile matters or other sealed events. If they say yes, do it.

122- what dept do you work at in Kaye Scholer. I'm wondering how the QOL if for litigation attorneys. Obviously tough when on a trial but otherwise decent? many weekends/very late nights? Attorneys get along well/good atmosphere?

FWIW: I'm very, very happy at my particular office of H&K.

130: I just pulled up my applications on LSAC. The application for the school that I attend did not specify that I must or should disclose sealed or expunged conviction or arrest information. However, several applications at other schools that I applied to did specifically request it. But again, when I was applying I had no legal education, and was simply following the statute under which my record was sealed.

Thanks for you advice and opinions. I suppose I'll just be 100% forthright with the bar, and explain that there may be discrepencies in my various appliactions because I was following the guidance in the statute. Hopefully the bar won't hold that against me.

Do you think that the bar can or will try to compell me to unseal my records so that they can see what is in them?

All said firms proudly wipe the ass of Cravath.

I'm an ex-Cahill person. No idea why Cahill is so under the radar. There are great things about the place, including some rare stuff, and all the bad stuff seems pretty common for Biglaw. I liked it, just wanted to move out of law firm life.

Cahill has a perk not mentioned in the (way out of date) Vault survey: an associate lounge, complete with couches and flat screen tv. Useful if you cannot work from home an some client is making you wait. More useful for corporate types, but still nice.

Re exit opportunities: over the years, many Cahill people have gone onto govt. positions (SEC, U.S. Attorney's office, etc.), and I-Banking. The name might not help you in Texas, but in New York it's excellent.

14, 40 - Does Steptoe even have a Bratislava office? If so it must be tiny, I only know of one in Brussels.

8, it is really weird that most of the firms in this segment have bad goings on of late.

Bingham ruffied a friend of mine at our OCI last year. He woke up naked in their Boston office taped to a copy machine with a stapler shoved up his ass. He didn't accept their offer.

Former Cahill person here too. Great place to learn (trial by fire) and the downsides are the same downsides as at all big firms. It is a no BS, no hand-holding, no bureaucracy environment, and they always match top NY non-Wachtell salaries and bonuses. Concur with pp who doesn't understand why it's so under the radar.

Anybody got anything on H&K? Particularly the non-Florida offices.

Anybody got anything on H&K? Particularly the non-Florida offices.

I'm in K&L Gates' Boston office and tell recuiters the same thing every time they call, "I'm not interested in going anywhere else."
I can only comment on our office, but all summers got offers, as they did last year. The delayed start date is only by a month. The whole firm is extremely well-managed and while it's been slow, no one here is worrying about their job. Can you folks up the Vault list say the same thing?

Bingham associate says:

(a) Bingham had a rough year PR wise, but remains a rising firm. PPP is still increasing while other firms are floundering. The McCutchen merger is working fine, but the SF McCutchen office is so litigation heavy that it can't weather a down market without some losses. The rooffie thing went away very quickly - there was no merit whatsoever to the complaint. So despite the PR hit the firm took due to that salacious little bit of news, its not something people should really care about.

(b) The Bratislava joke was never, and is still not, in any way funny.

131; I'm in the litigation dept at Kaye. The hours are pretty typical for a biglaw firm, but nothing too intense unless you're on trial (which is more common for IP and product liability groups). I rarely work on the weekends; that being said, you may have a couple of late nights during the week. In terms of atmosphere, I love it. The firm atmosphere is great; Friday cocktail parties are a nice perk. Everyone seems to get along very well.

133 -- if not having a legal education is your excuse, why did you follow a state statute instead of simple application instructions? Might want to be prepared to answer that question when the bar ethics committee asks it.

I kind of like Bratislava. I stayed at a cool hostel there once with really hot chicks and free drugs. There was a lot of screaming however.

I used to work at Foley Milwaukee and enjoyed it. The problem is that it's priced itself out of the local market, so that the Milwaukee (and Madison) offices have largely become like Bangalore, supporting work from Foley offices in larger cities. Its headquarters are in Milwaukee the same way that Jones Day's headquarters are in Cleveland, and it may be hard to continue to feed that many lawyers in Wisconsin. IMHO.

Well, 144, it doesn't take legal education to be able to look at the plain language of a statute and try to follow it. But someone who has never been to law school may not understand that following the law of one jurisdiction, while in that jurisdiction's borders, could get you into ethical problems in another jurisdiction. It wouldn't really be claiming ignorance of the law, but ignorance of a professional guideline or standard that only applies to a relatively small number of people.

How is a 22 year old college graduate with no legal training supposed to know that following the plain language of a statute could be considered unethical behavior?

87 is drinking the GT kool aid. GT is a national firm with offices that run themselves very differently. If you're lucky to get into a good office, then perhaps it's a good experience. But if you find yourself in a lousy office (and there are several, wrought with mismanagement, below market salaries, and no desire to foster associate development), stay away.

147 -- You may find some answers to your questions on the LSAC website under the "applying to law school" links, particularly those pertaining to ethics and full disclosure in the law school admissions process.

--144

146 is partially right: Foley's prices in WI make it harder to generate new business within the state. However, the firm has plenty of clients who are serviced out of Wisconsin with no other connection to the state.

The part I disagree with 146 is that Milwaukee isn't the mothership of the firm. It is. Period. Many people in non-Milwaukee offices cite that is the #1 complaint - it is a Milwaukee-centric firm where all the power is funneled through Milwaukee. This is not like Latham or Jones Day or even Gibson Dunn - if you were looking to make an analogy, it would me more like King & Spalding or Hunton & Williams as far as "HQ control."

I'VE HEARD NOTHING BUT TERRIBLE RUMORS ABOUT SONNENSCHEIN RECENTLY. NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO DO NOT GO TO THERE. THEY ARE STILL RESCINDING AND WITHHOLDING OFFERS IN VARIOUS OFFICES THERE.

K&L Gates also no-offered someone I know ... anyone know if that was widespread or single incidence?

Foley in Milwaukee is a good place to be. They may be pricey, but they are the absolute top of the market and no one else comes close.

The one in Milwaukee that is under more strain is probably Quarles & Brady. They want to become Foley, but are half the size with no real presence in any one office outside Wisconsin, cannot pay the same comp and do not have the same national revenue or prestige, nor are they even close.

Foley now pays twenty thousand salary above Quarles and the rest of Milwaukee market for first-years. Twenty thousand base. How are you supposed to compete with that for talent? You aren't. But Quarles is trying to pretend they are Foley's peer, and actually had a tougher OCI cutoff bracket than Foley at Wisconsin (similar numbers, but 20 less people for some reason). Their Vault blurb also talks like their hiring criteria is as elite as a V20 firm. If true, that is delusional.

They pay $15K below V100 market in Chicago and now $20K below Foley in both firm's home city. Being snooty about who you will talk to or hire compared to the other Wisconsin firms (including Foley) is just asinine with that background.

Can anyone please shed some light on what 151 said re Sonnenschein?

61 and 79--I summered at Foley (and it was fantastic!) and heard about my offer yesterday afternoon, so they are starting to make the calls...best of luck to your friends.

Re: Sonnenschein St. Louis

I had heard that they cut people in St. Louis during the big cut this summer. No confirmation of this though.

What about Heller? Have they lost all credibility or what?

The way Quarles and Brady can compete with Foley is by making offers for everyone. I heard Foley is no-offering a bunch of its class.

155 did you work there both summers

foley just sent offers out this week. Apparently they wanted to wait until everyone was done with the summer. I just finished last week and recieved my offer two days ago. I don't think any rumor about foley no offering is true. They have always been a responsibly managed and upwardly mobile firm.

What do you mean by "sent out"? Did they call, email or write you?

161, 160/155 is full of it

Foley is probably one of the last firms that would no-offer for economic reasons. Too traditional, and in too good shape financially.

OTOH, I can certainly see Foley cold-offering people based on douchebag factor/"fit" issues. That is especially true of the Milwaukee office - if there is one thing they do not like, it is people who lateral out of the region as second or third years after soaking up training and all the firm perks.

K&L Gates no-offered several Pittsburgh summers. That said, my experience there was great (happy, interesting people, manageable stress levels, good management), and I'm happy to be going back.

You'd think that Cesar Alvarez would be quite busy flogging underperforming senior partners, but apparently he's not too busy to post on ATL. (See 42, 66, 87, etc.)

Here's my favoret CA quote: "[A]s Alvarez puts it: 'Everyone likes to argue about the intangible value that they contribute. But I say, "If you want to be rewarded for intangible value, then here's a hug -- that's intangible."'"

165, I don't doubt the summers had a good experience. It's the associate experiences that matter. And it doesn't look like any of them are posting.

@154:

Here's what I know about Sonnenschein. There were two big stories in the last few months. First was the rescinded offers in Charlotte. Next were layoffs, which were firm-wide. As far as I know, there have been no other cuts or offers rescinded.

Foley seems like a great firm. One of the nicest guys in my section chose one of Foley's west coast offices over several V50s.

156 - Re St. Louis - People working in St. Louis at Sonnenschein told me yesterday that they were really busy. They hired contract attorneys to assist.

121 here. sorry, I meant "genteel," not "gentile."

168 - which office?

168 - which office?

168 - One of the nicest guys in my pre-kinder class starred on Sesamee Street

Holland and Knight: pulled an offer in DC.

Can't keep their staff paid. Can't recruit properly at UF.

I doubt they'll be in the top 75 next year.

Holland and Knight: pulled an offer in DC.

Can't keep their staff paid. Can't recruit properly at UF.

I doubt they'll be in the top 75 next year.

160- how were you notified about the Foley offer?

I've heard about layoffs at K&L Gates. For those of you who are happy there now, you should enjoy it while it lasts.

175 - The claim that H&K cannot keep staff paid is bogus. They laid off some secretaries who were not necessary. Get over it. The firm is doing just fine and remains one of the 15 biggest firms in the country with a stranglehold over some very profitable practice areas. Perhaps something like maritime law isn´t as glamorous as litigation (as if doc review is glamorous but let the law students dream on), but it is just as profitable.

K&L rocks.

93 - if you don't know what CGR means by being 'cheap' you obviously havent' worked there for very long or are a member of the 1-person marketing/bus dev department at 80 pine begrudgingly adopted a few years ago, decades after most firms had one.

Look, it's not the be-all, end-all, but it takes about 3 weeks at CGR to know that they like to cut corners on overhead in order to beef up profits. As previously stated, it's not a dealbreaker and there's a good argument for doing so, but to not acknowledge it is the truth.

The challenge for CGR in recent years appears to be recruiting. The NYU/Columbia crowd is rapidly being replaced by Fordham/Brooklyn. Not that there's anything wrong with that, many fine lawyers from there, but it makes attracting the stars from HLS/Yale etc more difficult, Floyd's pretty old, he is not going to bill that many more hours in his admittedly stellar career.

93 - if you don't know what CGR means by being 'cheap' you obviously havent' worked there for very long or are a member of the 1-person marketing/bus dev department at 80 pine begrudgingly adopted a few years ago, decades after most firms had one.

Look, it's not the be-all, end-all, but it takes about 3 weeks at CGR to know that they like to cut corners on overhead in order to beef up profits. As previously stated, it's not a dealbreaker and there's a good argument for doing so, but to not acknowledge it is silly.

The challenge for CGR in recent years appears to be recruiting. The NYU/Columbia crowd is rapidly being replaced by Fordham/Brooklyn. Not that there's anything wrong with that, many fine lawyers from there, but it makes attracting the stars from HLS/Yale etc more difficult, Floyd's pretty old, he is not going to bill that many more hours in his admittedly stellar career.

K&L Gates is far from awesome - they never got back on track after the ill-conceived merger and their associates are paying the price.

Can anyone give any insight on greenberg traurig's Orlando office? I have heard the hours are pretty long, but what about the treament of associates, pay and perks (if any)?

just to corroborate what was said earlier, i go to UVA and was supposed to have an interview with heller. they cancelled all interviews here.

just to corroborate what was said earlier, i go to UVA and was supposed to have an interview with heller. they cancelled all interviews here.

K&L Gates layoffs??

The word around the firm is that revenues are actually up this year, unlike at many other places.

There are some serious stealth layoffs afoot at Kaye Scholer.

187; you're an idiot. The firm is financially stable and it just gave offers to 100% of its summer class (the largest class Kaye has ever taken). I call BS.

Foley doesn't need to lay associates off since the firm can't keep them beyond a few years anyway. Nice people but it bleeds associates.

Ditto on K&L Pittsburgh being awesome. I too had a great summer there and can't wait to get back.

Ditto on K&L Pittsburgh being awesome. I too had a great summer there and can't wait to get back.

188. First, are you the director of finances at Kaye Scholer? No. So how the f***k do you presume to know the firm's finances? Because they gave offers to all of their summers? Ok, let's think about that one. Stop thinking. You may hurt yourself. The firm saves face in the eyes of law school students by giving offers to 100% of its summer class but then, as needed, secretly trims down the associate class from within. But you go ahead and "call BS." Good for you.

Foley just FUCKED over its Chicago summers. They no offered more than HALF of the summer class, and waited until AFTER it was too late for almost everyone to participate in OCI.

To the person who just talked about Chicago summers being no-offered - are you serious? Please answer honestly.

193 is true. Foley Chicago screwed over everyone who wasn't IP

sorry to all the chicago summers who got no-offered. 155, if it won't out you, what office were you in?

sorry to all the chicago summers who got no-offered. 155, if it won't out you, what office were you in?

Comments about Chicago Foley are true(at least according to my friend who works there)... apparently a large percentage of summers from TOP 10 schools were no-offered... AND some of them missed OCIs.... not sure what they were thinking with that one. IP seems to be ok... but s/he didn't know much about that.

Looks like Foley has taken a turn for the worse.

Foley Chicago has some great people, but that is a shitty thing to do.

Foley is continuing its no-offering policy in other offices. it looks like less than half of the summer associates are not getting offers.

155 here--I was not in Foley's Chicago office, but I had friends who confirmed that there were no-offers there, especially amongst the 1Ls.

ATL------- you've been really good about getting information about other firms how about checking in on Foley?

What other Foley offices besides Chicago are rumored to be stingy on the offers?

Milwaukee is no-offering

174/75 is either a former DC summer who did not get an offer or a bitter associate who couldn't cut it. Either way the claim is bogus. ALL DC offers are in good standing.

206- you say this despite the overwhelming news that Foley is nearly all its non-IP summers. Did all (or nearly all) the DC summers get offers?

If the rumors were untrue then Foley would be trying to correct them like EVERY OTHER law firm.

I summered at Cahill during my first year and I'm struggling on whether or not to go back. I did love it - but everybody really looked the same...that scared me!!

Any info on Greenberg Traurig, Foley and Lardner or Holland and Knight in Orlando?

uh, 208, care to elaborate?

BIngham is a solid firm which has been on a steady rise the past few years. Sure, they laid off some staff recently but that is just them being prudent.

I hear the attorneys in their NY and Boston offices are pretty cool people and the Boston folks just moved into a new office, which is apparently very nice.

H&K's DC office is great! The bi-annual all lawyer's "meeting" and other interactions with other attornyes leads me to believe that H&K's other offices are also enjoyable.