FIRST non law student post

1 -- ????? not a government entity...

1 - Equal protection and SDP apply only to governmental conduct, not private conduct as is the case here. Go back to your casebooks, idiot.

1: How so? Isn't the LPGA a private organization?

And I, for one, agree with the LPGA's decision. In the words of the owner of Geno's: "This is America--please order in English."

Sloppy, Elie... tighten it up (and save yourself from the vengeful wrath of the commentators).

Is there any law that contestants have to speak English in a professional chess match? Same thing here. Golf isn't a sport, requires no conversing (actually less than in chess) and shouldn't be held to this high standard. This is just a bunch of snooty unathletic morons trying to feel good about themselves

First to find this very objectionable. So what's next - requiring all English speakers to have an American accent since most of the sponsors are Americans? BS.

If they're going to blatantly discriminate, why don't they do something that will increase interest in sport. . . like shooing out all of the diesel dykes and fatties. IF PEOPLE ARE WATCHING WOMEN'S SPORTS, NOBODY WATCHES THEM BECAUSE THE ATHLETES ARE GOOD.

"This makes me just liked everybody else"

Shouldn't a basic understanding of grammar be a prerequisite of this job? It seems like every post of his contains at least one major grammatical gaffe.

There's some problem in the LPGA with golfers who can't speak English?

I'm all for making the U.S. an English speaking country again, but it makes no since in this case because one does not need to speak to play golf.

HTH.

lame attempt at curtailing Korean dominance in the sport

12: Well, if knocking the small ball around was all that went into having a successful golf promotion, you'd be right.

oh well, might as well throw in a good dose of "hooked on phonics" for good measure!

The problem from the LPGA's perspective is that most of the top golfers are now from Korea. They dominate the sport but have little marketability or appeal to most Americans. This is a backdoor way to address that.

Mystal should be suspended until he can write in English.

For anyone who responds to 13 & 16, don't mess it up like last time. If we're going to have a WGWAG thread, remember that it's white girls/asian guys AND NOT white guys/asian girls.

Who cares about female golfers anyway? For that matter, who cares about any female athletics other than beach volleyball?

7, you miss the point. The requirement has nothing to do with competitiveness or requirements of the sport, its about marketing. Unsurprisingly, no one really cares about the LPGA. The fact that the most prominent golfers on that tour don't speak English exacerbates the fact, because those that do care are loosing interest: since they cant understand anything the players say in interviews, etc, there's no connection to the players – think about it: Tigers determination and personality is a big part of what makes him so hugely popular. (I myself am a big golf fan, but don't care at all about the LPGA. I may flip to the channel during a commercial to try to catch a glimpse of Gulbis or another hottie, but you couldn't get me to watch a playoff for the LPGA Open)

An article on another site that discussed the issue (ESPN?) indicated that part of the problem is that the non-English speaking golfers are unable to interact with sponsors during the pro-ams at the start of each week and that it was affecting their sponsorship. All they are asking for is that the players can interact with those sponsors who pay good money to be able to golf with them before a tournament.

If the pro-ams are required for tournament players then I wouldn't think they would run into any human rights issues, even theoretically.

How this affects the tenth amendment is unclear (j/k).

"How this affects the tenth amendment is unclear (j/k)."

WTF?

WHERE'S THE BEEF?

this is lame. MLB has lots of players who dont speak english and it doesn't seem to be a problem

Apparently, there's someone named Lorena Ochoa from Mexico who wins a lot of LPGA events. Maybe this is partially aimed at her.

And why do you write it as "L.P.G.A"? Either drop all periods or put one after the "A". We just want internal consistency, dammit!

"Beisbol bin barry barry good to me."

It is Libba Galloway, and she is a Duke Law grad. Also, LPGA has no periods. I know that you just got here - but come on! Your post is a mess.

either argue the legality or the propriety of the rule, or address each separately. don't comingle the two, you appear stupid and incapable of logic. i don't care if you "feel" it's just "wrong"; you're probably bat shit crazy anyhow.

legally, there's not too much argument for ep/dp protection (i wouldn't presume this to be a trad'ly gov function). i would, however, be willing to bet that the lpga is a tax-exempt entity, and therefore req'd to refrain from discrimination, etc. by the IRC.

as to the wisdom of the rule, golf is extremely rule intensive; it's critical that the players be able to effeciently communicate w/ rules officials w/o having to depend on translators. i'd much rather burden the player (if it's even a burden) by making her learn english, than cause the lpga to accomodate the non-english speaking players (they affirmatively sought to play in the ass'n, small price to pay for the opportunity to earn so much.

don't make it political or about biggotry/nationalism; idiots. there's a clearly dominant interest in efficiency and ease of administration.

either argue the legality or the propriety of the rule, or address each separately. don't comingle the two, you appear stupid and incapable of logic. i don't care if you "feel" it's just "wrong"; you're probably bat shit crazy anyhow.

legally, there's not too much argument for ep/dp protection (i wouldn't presume this to be a trad'ly gov function). i would, however, be willing to bet that the lpga is a tax-exempt entity, and therefore req'd to refrain from discrimination, etc. by the IRC.

as to the wisdom of the rule, golf is extremely rule intensive; it's critical that the players be able to effeciently communicate w/ rules officials w/o having to depend on translators. i'd much rather burden the player (if it's even a burden) by making her learn english, than cause the lpga to accomodate the non-english speaking players (they affirmatively sought to play in the ass'n, small price to pay for the opportunity to earn so much.

don't make it political or about biggotry/nationalism; idiots. there's a clearly dominant interest in efficiency and ease of administration.

Suspended until I can write "quickly" in English is what you meant to say 17.

One thing that I didn't think was appropriate for the full post, but I'd like to bring up here is do we really think that this new "rule" is directed specifically at the Koreans? If you read the Times article, Koreans seem to think so.

Because, I can at least see the argument that the LPGA is making, but if it is specifically directed at one nationality, than that is a whole other problem, it seems to me.

either argue the legality or the propriety of the rule, or address each separately. don't comingle the two, you appear stupid and incapable of logic. i don't care if you "feel" it's just "wrong"; you're probably bat shit crazy anyhow.

legally, there's not too much argument for ep/dp protection (i wouldn't presume this to be a trad'ly gov function). i would, however, be willing to bet that the lpga is a tax-exempt entity, and therefore req'd to refrain from discrimination, etc. by the IRC.

as to the wisdom of the rule, golf is extremely rule intensive; it's critical that the players be able to effeciently communicate w/ rules officials w/o having to depend on translators. i'd much rather burden the player (if it's even a burden) by making her learn english, than cause the lpga to accomodate the non-english speaking players (they affirmatively sought to play in the ass'n, small price to pay for the opportunity to earn so much.

don't make it political or about biggotry/nationalism; idiots. there's a clearly dominant interest in efficiency and ease of administration.

The ATL editor venturing into the comments? Bess and Equity Private at DB do it well, but it is fraught with danger for rookies.

28, 29, and 31:

either post once or don't post at all; idiot.

29/31: golfers have to talk to the refs what, maybe three times per game at absolute most? C'mon...

You'd think the LPGA would focus on attaining the highest quality play. Maybe shift the burden onto the players to bring translators to the courses if necessary. Quality of play drives the bus; sponsors, money, ratings, etc. just ride on it.

Sounds fishy to me.

Hockey has a similar problem since most of the players are Russian/Eastern European. Fortunately, most of them can speak English.

Unfortunately, hearing Ovechkin jabber on about "I think we play well tonight. I please with our efforts..." makes me a xenophobe to the point where I only watch during playoffs.

34 - agreed; but that's assuming that the quality of play will actually diminish (i.e., the players will choose to refrain from participating rather than learning english). given the lack of comparable alt's, that's not going to happen.

how the hell can WGWAG be white girls w/asian guys when that interracial phenomenon is clearly the rare case? Shouldn't the acronym describe the commonplace combination of white guys with asian girls? The answer is yes.

WGWAG = white guy with asian girl

moreover, WGWEG = white guy with ethnic girl

the latter is also an obvious acronym because it is not uncommon to see a white guy dating a girl of Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, or East Indian descent.

that is all.

Out of total ignorance, is English widely taught to children in South Korea? The native Koreans I've met speak very good English, but that's an admittedly weak sample.

36 - learning english isn't going to happen overnight. depending on to what standard "conversant" is held, a lot of players may be shut out regardless of their studying efforts.

38 - These days, many Koreans learn English from the age of 4 from North Americans who are there to teach English

Angry Asian Man's perspective on this controversy: http://www.angryasianman.com/2008/08/lpga-tour-requiring-players-to-learn.html

this makes me less likely to watch the LPGA, not more. like how i object to the Masters since women can't play at Augusta.

In women's tennis I always root against the heterosexual.

42 - like next time you attempt to instigate, try not to like be so thinly veiled.

There is no reason Koreans, many of whom have been on the tour for years and still can't converse in English, can' t learn some basics so they can at least interact with sponsors and conduct interviews. Without sponsorship, the attendant pro-ams, and marketing there would be no LPGA. Someone who drops thousands of bucks to sponsor should be able to reasonably expect that the pro they're teamed with for a 3 or 4 hour round can at least hold a basic conversation.

37: The rarity of the white girl/asian guy combo is why people troll about it. You don't see me trolling about WGWG or AGAG, right? Then there's no reason to troll about white guys and asian girls.

Also, it's half mocking. The fact that it doesn't happen is why it's hilarious. Oh those comical, sexually frustrated asian guys. They're so zany!

Is Libba a femme name or a butch name? Whenver I go to a Koreatown massage parlor for some comfort girl action, I notice that the other fat white guys really care about the quality of English spoken by the girls. Poor quality English can really hurt your reviews on myredbook. Since they probably think of their golf-playing meat in the same way, LPGA sponsors must really care about the quality of English spoken by the hot Korean chicks they golf with on the company nickel.

I think the rule makes perfect sense. Language ability is not relevant to playing golf per se, but it is highly relevant to the job of touring golf professional, which in reality is a particular type of show-business entertainer.

There is nothing intrinsically valuable about hitting a golf ball. Tour pros get paid to do it because people are interested in watching, and a significant part of the appeal is not just the golf tournament itself, but the personalities, the rivalries, the psychodrama, the highs, the lows, etc. In order for the sport to attract sponsors, the players have to be able to relate to the public, give interviews, and answer questions from the TV commentators after their rounds. A player who doesn't speak enough English to describe how she felt about her double bogey on Number 14, or how nervous she is about tomorrow's round against so-and-so, just isn't as interesting for the public to watch.

Regarding Elie's question (at 30) as to whether the LPGA's rule is neutral "directed at" Koreans, although it is facially neutral, I think it is pretty obviously prompted by the large numbers of Koreans on tour. The Korean women now comprise a huge percentage of the LPGA and are some of its most successful players. I salute the Korean women for their increasing dominance in the sport, but to get paid to play golf in the US, they do need to be able to relate to the US TV audience. And a part of that is speaking English.

The PGA would probably adopt a similar rule if it had to, but the occasion just hasn't arisen. There are many international players on the men's tour, but most are Brits, Aussies, and Irishmen, and the remaining highly-ranked players (Sergio Garcia, Vijay Singh, various Scandinavian players, for example) are quite fluent in English. They may speak with an accent (arguably adding to their charm and personality), but have no trouble giving interviews and being understood. It is no accident that these international players have quite a fan following in the US.

The language issue is particularly important in golf and tennis, because they are such individual and personality-driven sports. With team sports, it is less critical whether every player can speak English and give interviews, as long as there is somebody else on the team who can relate. But with golf, if the player cannot communicate, there is nobody else to turn to for a comment.

The LPGA already lags far, far behind the PGA Tour in prize money, TV viewership, and general interest. The LPGA is probably concerned that if most of it start players cannot easily relate to the public, it is going to fall even farther behind.

Wow, it only took until comment 48 to get to an intelligent comment that actually understood the issues. 1-47 were such an abysmal demonstration of inanity. 28/29/31 was the worst, because he/she tried to sound intelligent, but also had no idea what he/she was talking about.

Europeans speak english. Canadians speak english. Australians speak english. Normally, Asian countries do not speak english (or to a lesser extent than the countries mentioned above). I call the reasons of the LPGA in implementing this rule as bullshit. The rule is to curtain Korean dominance in the sport.

49, I think you meant to say it "took until comment 47 to get an intelligent comment." Also, I think you meant "30" instead of "28/29/31."

The reason the LPGA isn't doing as well as other sports is because Annika Sorenstam is fuckin' ugly. Michelle Wie is hot, but she doesn't play as well. Golf needs a Kornikova/Sharapova/Ivanovic. Not fuckin' english!

Last I checked, Sorenstam speaks english -- yet I still don't watch. ZING!

49 - way to make use of use a thesaurus while throwing out conclusory statements supported by nothing but grammatically lacking insults. you'll accept a similar comment directed toward you because you're incapable of a decent response.

go back to your couch (or whatever you sit on), give up searching for a job; you're unemployable. pseudo-intelligence is hard to disguise with what are surely, for you, big words.

haha . . . 49, you're a smart guy right? did the comment understand the issues (as opposed to its author)? personify much? you might also want to avoid ending your sentences w/ prepositions and creating blatant subject/verb disagreements.

you is unsmart and your comment weren't worth wasting your nap time on.

48 is an idiot who needs to learn English.

Golf is for girls...

The Asian American Justice Center (http://www.advancingequality.org) just issued this press release:

LPGA English Policy Is Discriminatory; AAJC Urges Sponsors To Withdraw Support

Washington, D.C. - The Asian American Justice Center (AAJC) urges the LPGA sponsors to withdraw support of the Tour until the English proficiency policy is retracted. The LPGA will require all players to be proficient in English starting in 2009 and those who cannot pass an oral evaluation of English skills face suspension from the Tour. There are currently 121 international players from 26 countries on the LPGA Tour.

"This policy is tantamount to national origin discrimination, which is prohibited under Civil Rights Act," said Vincent A. Eng, deputy director of AAJC. "The policy is an affront to our American principles of diversity and equality. It is even more unconscionable that the LPGA is devolving to past divisive and exclusionary practices of their sport following the successful closing of the unifying Olympic Games."

"There is already a strong endorsement incentive for the players to learn English to increase their global marketability," said Tuyet G. Duong, senior staff attorney at AAJC. "The new LPGA policy along with their actions to have a special meeting with the South Korean players, smacks of clear discriminatory targeting of those players."

"The game of golf has a long history of exclusion of minorities and women and they have fought for years to be included in sport," added Duong. "That is why it is shocking that the LPGA would issue this policy, which is completely contrary to the spirit of inclusion that drives LPGA pioneer women to continue breaking new ground in their sport. This will ultimately result in depriving the audience and fans of seeing the best golfers in the world."

53: Go back to ZINGing yourself. Sorenstam is a pig. That's why you don't watch. If she were hot and played in a bikini, you would watch even if she spoke Korean.

As for the AAJC, I totally 100% agree; I am definitely going to boycott all of the LPGA sponsors until Korea stops hoarding all the hot beaver for itself and starts sending it over here to play golf, fer chrissakes. Golf? WTF? What did Michael Todd say about Elizabeth Taylor when they were married?

25... loreana ochoa speaks english well

the language rule is largely about pro-am interaction and media interaction - requirement of the events

also golfers on tour are independent contractors, so their rights are pretty limited