would it be a bad move to take a job with heller?

The death of these merger talks makes Heller more appealing.

Yawn.

No Shareholder will agree to voluntarily de-equitize for the benefit of other partners. Ever.

#2, I don't know about that. I DO know that asking for career advice on ATL is a bad move.

as i said before, this would not happen. what will happen now is that baker will steal all the ny partners - ala coudert bros

It seemed a weird combo. BM has virtually standalone offices; HE has a strong (incompetent, but strong) central authority. One or the other was going to have to alter its nature drastically.

In high level negotiations, gentlemen from my preparatory academy frequently defrocked equity partners of this status, resulting in failed mergers. It was not a conspicuous event.

~Fraternity Lothario

BM is McDonald's - Heller is prob better off. I woudln't take a job there until they get their house in order.

Yes Yes. But what about those Foley rumors????

Yes Yes. But what about those Foley rumors????

Where are the Foley rumors coming from?

This site something like a week ago.

Baker & McKenzie is trying to evade its wrongdoing or miconduct by merger.
Baker & Mckenzie is one of the worst law firm due to is operated by unethical conduct such as in using bribery tool to achieve its commercial goal at the expense dignity of lawyer profession.
The merger is without merit ,just in avoiding or washing its dirty hands in bribery schemes.

Hey 15, are you Moses Odiaka from Nigeria who sent me the attached email? I have been trying to reach you to claim my US 18.5 million. Good to see you've branched out into lawfim consulting work.

My name is Mr.Moses Odiaka.I work in the credit and accounts department of
Union Bank of NigeriaPlc,Lagos, Nigeria. I write you in respect of a
foreign customer with a Domicilliary account. His name is Engineer Manfred
Becker. He was among those who died in a plane crash here in Nigeria
during the reign of late General Sani Abacha.

Since the demise of this our customer, Engineer Manfred Becker, who was an
oil merchant/contractor, I have kept a close watch of the deposit records
and accounts and since then nobody has come to claim the money in this a/c
as next of kin to the late Engineer. He had only $18.5mllion in his a/c
and the a/c is coded. It is only an insider that could produce the code or
password of the deposit particulars. As it stands now,there is nobody in
that position to produce the needed information other than my very self
considering my position in the bank.

Based on the reason that nobody has come forward to claim the deposit as
next of kin, I hereby ask for your co operation in using your name as the
next of kin to the deceased to send these funds out to a foreign offshore
bank a/c for mutual sharing between myself and you. At this point I am the
only one with the information because I have removed the deposit file from
the safe.By so doing, what is required is to send an aplication laying
claims of the deposit on your name as next of kin to the late Engineer. I
will need your full name and address telephone/fax number,company or
residential, also your bank name and account,where the money will be
transfer into.

Finally i want you to understand that the request for a foreigner as the
next of kin is occassioned by the fact that the customer was a foreigner
and for that reason alone a local cannot represent as next of kin. When
you contact me, then we shall discuss on how the money will be split
between us and others we shall also speak in details.I am currently in
europe for a six months course,you can reach me on this number for further
discussion 0031 623 866 723.Kindly send your reply to my private email
address stated below mosesodig1@zwallet.com or mosesodiaka1@yahoo.com

Trusting to hear from you,

I remain Respectfully yours,

Mr Moses Odiaka.
mosesodig1@zwallet.com or mosesodiaka1@yahoo.com
(0031 623 866 723)

Anybody actually here this voicemail? It'd be hot if you hosted it somewhere

Google the name "Sugiarto Setiabudi" and you will find numerous, similarly unintelligible posts by #15 attacking Baker, attacking Thomson Reuters, attacking Yahoo...

I second 17's suggest -- come one, someone can leak that voicemail ...

17/19, I think to the extent law firm partners read this blog (not much), they do it purely to gauge associate sentiment. Heller is one-track -- its partners are all equity. Why would it possibly be in any equity partner's interest to leak a confidential voicemail to this blog? Not going to happen.

20, I know. But, an associate can dream, right?

It is more that, as an associate, I wish I would learn information from within my own firm rather than having to turn to a gossip blog as my best/only source of information.

I am with you on that, 21. It will be interesting to hear what they (don't) say at tomorrow's videoconference.

Your colleague,

#20

#21

As a legacy LeBoeuf associate, I know all too well how frustrating it is to learn information from a gossip blog as opposed to hearing it from within my firm. VERY FRUSTRATING

22, what time is the videoconference? is it for the firm or just the shareholders?

Yes 22, what time? Also, would you mind posting the dial-in details here for us all so that none of us can miss out on this historic VC?

16, that first paragraph was brilliant but you need to learn to quit while you're ahead.

See http://law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202423709913

B&M lawyer here.

B&M offices are not "virtually stand alone". It's actually pretty damned integrated. C'mon guys, if all B&M offices were stand alone it would have collapsed long ago.

As for the Mickey D's slam, well, yeah, we're definitely global. But that was the vision of the firm when it was founded, way far out ahead of the curve. We're not come-lately's like DLA.

Like any Big Law firm, B&M sucks. It's a sweat shop, yeah. But we have a pretty damned decent firm culture. Having sweated for other BL bastards, I can tell the difference.

The powers that be cancelled the dial in number. Fear of above the law?

26--it's me 16. I could not agree with you more. I thought pasting in the email would give reference and context, but it was unnecessary and distracting. Oh well, live and learn.

Ever wonder what happened to the Iraqi Information Minister who claimed there were no American soldiers in Iraq? He changed his name to Matt Larabee.

31--It's Larrabee dipshit. If you're going to slam the man and compare him with an enemy of our nation, at least have the good sense to spell his name correctly. And that was stupid comparrison. You're better than that 31--you're better than that.

Larabee, Larrabee or LLaarraabbee...that was funny!

Stop being such an apologist 32. 31's statement is only one "r" away from being 100% factually accurate.

Now that we've had our videoconference, I think we can answer #2's question with a resounding "NO." The specter of layoffs was raised (albeit with the same measure of vagueness and ambiguity that marks everything that's ever come out of Matt Larrabee's mouth).

Sorry, I didn't actually go back and read the phrasing of #2's question. Change "NO" to "YES." It would be a terrible idea (or at least an unnecessary risk) to take a job at Heller right now.

-34

Was there any useful information that came out of the post-call discussions?

So if you accomplish layoffs while making people think it's their own idea, is that a super stealth layoff?

Hey, 36 -

Synopsis of SF post-call discussions:

99% of associates: "morale is abysmally low; I don't trust management at all -- they are horrendous at messenging; people should polish up their resumes."

1% of associates: "blasphemy! love your master! plus, i'm a corporate associate, so i know that mergers are hard and you should be ashamed of even suggesting that management might share some fault here."

There were a lot of cynical comments made and skeptical looks exchanged at our post-call meeting.

With all the Baker haters out is force, explain why Vault prestige ratings has Baker 44 and Heller 66. Baker seems to be the firm that some folks love to hate.

With all the Baker haters out is force, explain why Vault prestige ratings has Baker 44 and Heller 66. Baker seems to be the firm that some folks love to hate.

Explanation to 40/41: Vault prestige rankings are meaningless. Any of us who work at big firms know how they work -- you're asked to rank a bunch of firms that you know nothing about except what you heard in law school (hence the top 10 remains relatively static and MoFo is somehow a perennial top 20) or about whom you know something statistically meaningless and anecdotal because you have a friend who works there or you've been co- or opposing counsel, etc. These rankings are way less meaningful or useful than even the USNews law school rankings, since at least those rankings depend in part on objective data (and because respondents that are lawyers and judges have actually had personal experience with many alums from many of the law schools being ranked).

What about taking a job with Heller at a non-US based office? Apparently there still are merger talks in the works or there may be a merger with another firm?

If you're looking to go to a non-US office, why would you possibly go to Heller (why would you come here if you wanted to be anywhere other than the Bay Area, really)?

28 is right on the money.

43 here, I have my reasons. What are your thoughts though?

Ok, 43: if I were elsewhere right now, I would not consider taking a job at any Heller office. Things are way too unstable right now. I will be leaving within the year, for sure.

Thanks 47. That's what I needed to hear.

Addition to 42's explanation: Among the 200 or so firms that you're asked to rate (between 1 and 5 I think -- it's been a while since I bothered to fill out the survey), you're asked to rate your own firm. Baker McKenzie is the biggest firm in the world. Thus, it has the most respondents in the Vault survey. The pathetic thing is that it doesn't rank higher -- its deck is stacked.

Talking about unstable I heard that several additional shareholders tendered resignations (both in the U.S. and overseas) and that Heller is trying to keep this under wraps. Anyone have specific news on this?

Lots of hush hush conversations between Shareholders (particularly lots of unusual closed door meetings). Anyone have any idea what is going on?

there was a presentation to shareholders today about the so-called Plan B, the next merger candidate. I would guess that would indeed lead to a lot of closed door meetings, particularly amongst those shareholders who are not being kept up to date by senior management. It could well be very good news - or not.

there was a presentation to shareholders today about the so-called Plan B, the next merger candidate. I would guess that would indeed lead to a lot of closed door meetings, particularly amongst those shareholders who are not being kept up to date by senior management. It could well be very good news - or not.

there was a presentation to shareholders today about the so-called Plan B, the next merger candidate. I would guess that would indeed lead to a lot of closed door meetings, particularly amongst those shareholders who are not being kept up to date by senior management. It could well be very good news - or not.

Not B&M?

NEXT

Anyone want to start a pool on the next target?

How about Covington & Burling?
Or maybe Morgan Lewis?
Or even Jenner & Block?
Or an oldie but goodie, Proskauer?

Wasn't it Morgan Lewis that strung Brobeck along before backing out of a proposed merger? And, after Brobeck imploded, Morgan Lewis cherry-picked Brobeck's partners and associates. Not exactly a stellar history, there.

Isn't "Plan B" also a pharmaceutical product? Hmm.

Hmmm, more merger talks. Does anyone know if Heller's hirings have been put on hold (at the non-partner level)?

I wonder why Heller has this desperate need to merge. Aren't they a good firm? Something we don't know?

Check out this article...
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2008/08/bridesmaids-at.html

I just love this part:

Heller's Downs avoids the merger talks as well, choosing instead to focus on his work. "I can't speak for the litigators, but on the transactional side we're very busy," he says, noting that last week he advised British inter-dealer broker Tullett Prebon on the sale of a South American minority interest. "It's August, I'm supposed to be on vacation!"

Wow, so much for "One Firm," huh? Is someone looking for an exit strategy, perhaps?

58, Baker did the same with Coudert. Don't be surprised to see certain Heller shareholders suddenly appear at Baker. If you don't have some coattails to ride, you might want to dust off your resume.

I temped at the New York Office of Heller Ehrman back in 2003 and there didn't seem to be all that many lawyers doing any real work. The office was full of lawyers walking around creating bullshit drama BECAUSE they didn't seem to have any work to do.

Let me put it this way, THE WORD got out back in 2003 about Heller's NYC office via the Heller Ehrman messageboard at vault.com. From that point on, it appeared that Heller was unable to attract any big partners from big law firms in NYC. At one point, it appeared that Heller just accepted that it wasn't going to attract any big name partners from other NYC firms and Heller's PR started bragging that the firm was building by hiring associates.

From what I saw of Heller Ehrman from the inside, the SF firm seemed to be ok but, Heller made a big mistake merging with that NYC firm that became Heller's NYC office.

I find it more than a bit funny that one of the Partners who made Heller's NYC office what it was left Heller for another firm. THIS should tell you something about Heller's future.

I temped at the New York Office of Heller Ehrman back in 2003 and there didn't seem to be all that many lawyers doing any real work. The office was full of lawyers walking around creating bullshit drama BECAUSE they didn't seem to have any work to do.

Let me put it this way, THE WORD got out back in 2003 about Heller's NYC office via the Heller Ehrman messageboard at vault.com. From that point on, it appeared that Heller was unable to attract any big partners from big law firms in NYC. At one point, it appeared that Heller just accepted that it wasn't going to attract any big name partners from other NYC firms and Heller's PR started bragging that the firm was building by hiring associates.

From what I saw of Heller Ehrman from the inside, the SF firm seemed to be ok but, Heller made a big mistake merging with that NYC firm that became Heller's NYC office.

I find it more than a bit funny that one of the Partners who made Heller's NYC office what it was left Heller for another firm. THIS should tell you something about Heller's future.

65 - you must be bored as hell

Any updates?

It appears that HE is very desparate to look for someone to merge with - perhaps a way for HE partners to exit ? To the extent that it looks like it is using 'whatever it takes' stragety (similar to 65's view).
Evidenced by the fact that HE was happy to merge w/ B&M - a bunch of corrupted, greedy, selfish, unethnical 'partners' specialized in theft practice :))

Word is LA just lost a big partner.

Darryl Snider. Huge.

I thought he retired three years ago.

71, your mother retired 3 years ago.

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS163809+20-Aug-2008+MW20080820

What if the firm hired Grace Jones to perform for the associates to boost morale? (LOL)

Libel and slander are crimes.
But The truth is valuable for public knowledge.
Please,ask to search engine by typei in "Reuters Photo fraud"
You can do understand .how the truth works.

Piss off "Sugiarto"

When I worked in Heller's NYC Office, this one Partner would spend hours in the word processing center bullshitting with a word processor.

I was at Heller for over a year and I never once saw any billable work from this one partner. I could never figure out what the guy did that he would still be in the officer after 5:30 to bullshit with a word processor.

I assume Heller Ehrman thought that merging with any NYC firm would give it the chance to attract partners from other Big NYC Firms. However, Heller definitely picked the word f*** NYC law firm to merge with. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that maybe Heller's failure to attract partners in NYC and to become a bigger presence in NYC is what resulted in Heller's current situation. In other words, that New York Office is what brought all of Heller down.

Any updates?

Well, 76 you're right.
Even HR's office in Asia - HK office has got no work whatsoever.
Everyone is just hanging around the office for no real work. You think the office will exist like this forever?

Any updates? They're Asia offices aren't losing people as well are they?

Heard the top partners in Beijing left and just confirmed the absence of certain names on Heller's website. Also heard it's now Heller + Mayer Brown.

Just checked as well - they lost the head of the Beijing office/China practice I think. Not looking good.

What did you expect, the pipeline of work is not being filled. Quality partners are not going to stick around when they know the ppp will take another dip this year. There are other opportunities out there.

HR is quote as a sinking ship...

HR is quoted as a sinking ship...

HE is quote as a sinking ship...lets see

Where did these Beijing partners go?

83 & 84 - More partners jumped ship this week.

http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=134361&d=415&h=417&f=416

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gibson-dunn-adds-securities-litigation/story.aspx?guid=%7BC6EA1FE3-EFE9-47EE-AC7A-E3A61CFB280F%7D&dist=hppr

85 - That is funny how the title of the article is -

Heller partner jumps ship to Sheppard Mullin

Re-echoing 86's sentiment - where did those partners go?

And any news?

No, last official statement from the firm was back at end of June...

Patrick Bustamante, said early in the day that the firm "is not considering" a merger with Baker & McKenzie and would not comment on whether the firm had talked with Baker in the past. Asked later to clarify whether "not considering" meant the firm was not in current talks with Baker to explore the possibility of a merger, Bustamante was less clear. "I don't know that I can go into that kind of detail or comment at all," he said.

Hey 86: The Beijing partners went to a competitor, Proskauer Rose. Chair of the Beijing office/head of asian private equity and fund formation practice along with the head of China business practice.
Can we rule out Proskauer Rose as a possible merger candidate? they got what they were after.
http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=134476&d=415&h=417&f=416