More on On-Campus Interview Cancellations
Last week, we gave you a post on on-campus interviewing (OCI) cancellations by law firms at three schools. We wondered whether it might be an emerging trend. The flood of e-mails and comments in response suggests that it is.
We've compiled a long list for nervous law students. The firms or offices listed below have canceled plans to interview students on campus at certain law schools (or, in some cases, all law schools -- the office isn't hosting a 2009 summer program). When possible, we've specified the firm's office, the law school reporting the cancellation, and the scope of the cancellation (e.g., 3Ls only).
Update / Correction: Please note that this list has been updated and corrected in various ways since it was originally published. Refresh your browser to get the latest version. Thanks.
Akin Gump - Philadelphia and Dallas offices (Georgetown)
[Ed. note: Akin's Philly office was never signed up to interview at Georgetown in the first place, so there was no cancellation.]
Arent Fox (Cornell)
Arnstein & Lehr - Chicago office
Baker & Hostetler - Orlando office
Barnes & Thornburg - Chicago office (John Marshall)
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft - New York office (Case Western, Rutgers)
Cooley Godward - 3Ls (UCLA)
Dorsey & Whitney - New York office
Duane Morris - Philadelphia office (NYU)
Edwards Angell Palmer Dodge (NYU)
Faegre & Benson - 3Ls (UCLA)
Gunderson Dettmer - 3Ls (UCLA)
Kirkland & Ellis - 3Ls (UCLA)
Kirkpatrick Kilpatrick & Stockton (Georgetown)
McKenna Long & Aldridge
Mintz, Levin - Washington, DC office
Morrison & Foerster - L.A. office (U. Penn.; Brooklyn Law School)
Powell Goldstein
Seyfarth Shaw - (Boston University)
Simpson Thacher - Palo Alto office - 3Ls (UCLA, UVA)
Skadden (Brigham Young University, Catholic)
Stinson Morrison Hecker (University of Texas)
Strasburger & Price - Austin office (University of Texas)
Thelen Reid (UVA)
White & Case (Fordham)
[Ed. note: White & Case is interviewing very enthusiastically at Fordham, which it regards as a "key school" for the firm.]
Willkie Farr - Washington, D.C. office (Columbia)
[Ed. note: The Willkie Farr cancellations apply only to 3L interviewing.]
Winstead PC - Dallas office (Georgetown)
As some of you noted, canceling on-campus interviews may be a cost-savings strategy for firms feeling the economic squeeze. One of you suggested that law schools stop charging firms to interview on campus:
Maybe if some of the schools where firms are interviewing didn't charge the firms so much to come on campus to interview, they wouldn't be cancelling.... you know some schools don't charge at all (and aren't getting cancellations).
Some firms canceled 3L interviews only. That and rumors of an increasing number of cold offers and no-offers to this year's summer associates suggest that firms will have limited spots for the Class of 2009.
After the jump, we've got a message from a 3L advice seeker, plus full memos from law schools on OCI cancellations.
Despite the nature of this post, ATL does not love fear-mongering. We're just big fans of transparency and giving gossip an outlet. If you have tips or corrections on OCI cancellations, please send them to us here.
One 3L wrote to us for advice:
Recently, you covered how firms cancelled their entire summer program or OCI sessions at law schools one after one. Obviously, this is going to be a tough recruiting season for 2Ls.However, as a rising 3L at a T2 school in a primary market, I am curious about how this job market will treat those of us who are either looking to work in another city or no-offered by the firms we summered based on purely demand-and-supply reason.
Sadly, the OCI at my school made no effort to help 3L students at all. There are maybe 25 firms, each providing 3-6 interview slots, to the 3Ls on Campus (compared to the 100+ firms that are interviewing 2Ls). I just sent out 150+ application letters to firms, but in such a slow job market, I don't have too much hope on the mass mailing either. Therefore, I am hoping that may be you can help me to find out about the job market for 3Ls, and is it more impossible than ever for us to get hired? I am sure that there are a lot of anxious 3Ls out there trying to look for an answer to my question as well.
It looks like it's going to be a tough hiring market for 3Ls. A recent article in the Washington Post discusses the difficult job market for this year's grads, noting that several law firms have instituted hiring freezes. So... any advice?
Much of the information on OCI cancellations came to us via comments. These are the few memos that were forwarded to us.
GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL - OFFICE OF CAREER SERVICES - MEMORANDUM
The law firm of Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo, P.C. (Boston, MA and Washington, DC) has cancelled their OCI schedule on August 22th and will no longer be coming to campus for the Fall Recruitment Program. They will not be having a summer associate program next year. They have received your bid and they will contact students directly, as needed. Your invitation status in Symplicity will either say "pending" or "not selected" once scheduling opens. On behalf of the firm, we apologize for any inconvenience.
[Ed. note: A Mintz Levin spokesperson clarified this for us. The firm IS hosting a summer associate program in Boston this year and continues to vigorously recruit for that program, as well as summer programs in several other offices. As for D.C., "the firm's Washington D.C. office, which historically has had a very small summer associate program, has decided to take the opportunity to assess its program and will most probably not be conducting a summer associate program for next year."]
CASE WESTERN UNIVERSITY - CAREER SERVICES OFFICE - MEMORANDUM
Dear second year students,
Unfortunately, the CSO was notified by the New York office of Cadwalader, Wickersham and Taft today that the New York office has decided not to interview at the New York Off-Campus Interview Program on Friday, August 15th as scheduled. Instead, the New York office has decided to participate in the Resume Collect portion of our Fall Interview Program. At this time we have closed the bidding for the New York office of Cadwalader, Wickersham and Taft under the New York session in OCI. We have now opened bidding for the New York office of Cadwalader under the Summer Resume Collect session in OCI. The bid deadline for Summer Resume Collect is July 24 at 1:00 pm.
If you have already bid for the New York office of Cadwalader, your documents will be sent to the firm as part of the Summer Resume Collect package and you do not need to re-submit your bid. If you have not bid for the New York office of Cadwalader but would like to do so, please bid prior to July 24 under the Summer Resume Collect session.
The CSO apologizes for any inconvenience. Please let us know if you have any questions.
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL - OFFICE OF CAREER SERVICES - MEMORANDUM
Dear REDACTED:
Your interview with Duane Morris LLP (Philadelphia, PA) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 in our 2008 Early Interview Week session has been cancelled. The employer has cancelled their participating in 2008 Early Interview Week. They may contact you directly or they may reschedule for a later interview [sic] date.
Sincerely,
Office of Career Services
NYU School of Law
(205) Comments
Firms get charged to interview? Seriously?
FirsTTT
Another reason why Lat should not leave - he would have recognized that the UPenn cancellations were a joke - note that the reference was to UPenn State and included only V10 firms (who would never cancel) as well as Stern & Montana - a joke of a firm that doesn't even recruit at UPenn.
We need a qualified candidate.
I'm confused. Wouldn't a 3L be an asset in this market since they wouldn't have to be needlessly wined and dined, given the 3k a week, etc.?
All the 3L's I know have a chip on their shoulder anyway. They would come into a firm with something to prove.
Wow that's like 5 V10 firms no longer interviewing at Penn.
You know the economy is in the crapper when you have firms like Skadden, Cravath and Davis Polk canceling interviews. Save us Bernanke, save us!
First to say Skadden was looking for a reason to tell AU to go sh*t in their hat.
Are people picking on UCLA and UPenn? Why isn't anyone canceling at Michigan, for instance?
I agree with #3. No way those firms are cancelling interviews at UPenn.
7 can't read - Wachtell told AU to go sh*t in their hat.
what's going on at Upenn?
C'mon, Cravath, Davis and Cleary supposedly cancelling at Penn should have raised the BS alert.
excellent work to the wachtell, cravath and stern + montanna sleuths!
I call BS on the Penn cancellations - it's either only for 3Ls or it's a lie.
Nothing cancelled at UPenn--get your facts straight.
I heard that UPenn has canceled Law School until further notice and is sending all its students to Temple. In other shocking news, apparently there's a law school named Temple.
kashmir hill is an idiot.
way to fact check, moron.
Yeah, it looks like its been changed. That was fast.
Refresh your browser. The joke U. Penn. cancellations have been removed (along with the Wachtell cancellations).
The only U. Penn. cancellation still listed is MoFo in L.A. - is that legit?
Penn student here - have interviews with almost all of these firms - two have just confirmed that they are not canceling and this post is wrong.
Way to be ATL.
There should be a poll on the preferred spelling of cancel(l)ed.
Most 3L candidates are damaged goods or sloppy seconds anyway.
2:25 - The only Penn cancellation still on the list is MoFo in Los Angeles. Accurate?
Ever thought cancellations occur even in a great economy?
Does anyone know how much firms pay to interview at these schools?
Kash is an idiot. Plus, how would she know about this? Isn't she covering the Olympics in Hong Kong or something like that?
Holme Roberts & Owen in SF cancelled at UVA
Has White and Case really cancelled at Fordham? That would be a bad sign.
2:20:
According to the Vault, Michigan produces some of the best attorneys. Why would anyone cancel there?
2:20- People are picking on UCLA because its a crappy non-elite school.
MoFo LA does OCI at Brooklyn? That doesn't make any sense.
Willkie Farr DC cancellations were only for 3Ls, at least at my school (lower T14).
I love that Skadden is hating on the religious schools. Mormons? Catholics? I'm sorry, the correct answer was Presbyterian. Thanks for playing.
Skadden seems to avoid recruiting from law schools with a religious heritage. On a good note, however, Skadden apparently didn't cancel OCI with Regent.
Holme Roberts & Owen is where Shinyung Oh works. I notice Simpson, Thacher, & Bartlett interviewed last year at USC and UCLA, but this year, they're not.
2:20- The Penn cancellations are fake and UCLA sucks.
Good news - the DOJ is still interviewing at Oral Roberts.
Attention everyone:
The economy is now so bad that all courts have shut down. Law firms officially have no more work and all OCR interviews have been canceled at all schools. Yale, I've got my eye on you. KTHXBY
XOXOHTH,
Kashmir Hill and the huge team of factcheckers at ATL
Most of these cancellations are (1) of smallish branch offices that might not need many SAs even in good years, or (2) cancellations at second (or lower) tier law schools. While it almost certainly reflects the economy, I don't think it necessarily means these firms are big trouble. It may reflect a firm desire to cut interview costs as much as if not more than an actual scaling back of summer programs.
2:20- The Penn cancellations are fake and UCLA sucks.
36: I don't go to UCLA, but even I'm willing to admit that it's an excellent school. I can't understand why firms would pick on it.
lol
we need lat back
Simpson Thacher Palo Alto IS interviewing at UVA. I have an interview with them.
If the info is that 3L interviews are cancelled, how about labelling it that way???!!!
What's early interview week?
Akin Gump cancelled at Villanova, but Duane Morris (for the Philadelphia office) did not.
Also, Cadwalater is not interviewing at OCI's but will be interviewing at the NY Bar Association in early September for Villanova students.
Northwestern-
Dear Students,
I'm writing to let you know that an employer you have bid on, DLA PIPER RUDNICK GRAY CARY US LLP has updated their recruiting needs for Fall OCI and will no longer be interviewing for Houston, TX or Phoenix, AZ. All interviews and bids are still in place, but if you are no longer interested in interviewing with DLA PIPER RUDNICK GRAY CARY US LLP be sure to cancel your interview if you received one or "Opt-Out" of the waitlist. If you have any questions or concerns, you should speak with your career advisor.
I'm confused. Wouldn't a 3L be an asset in this market since they wouldn't have to be needlessly wined and dined, given the 3k a week, etc.?
All the 3L's I know have a chip on their shoulder anyway. They would come into a firm with something to prove.
permalink - get a life you absolute loser
Wow, right now I'm SO glad I'm a 3L.
As a UCLA 2L I can verify that every firm listed as "cancel(l)ing" is ONLY for 3L's - still not great news, but hardly the end of the world.
3Ls? At this point you had better buy a fast car and listen for the ambulance sirens.
What schools charge employers to come on campus? It seems like a strange thing to do.
Is it telling that Skadden is backing off religious law schools -- Catholic and BYU?
2:37(2) / 44 - That has been fixed.
As a UCLA 2L I can verify that every firm listed as "cancel(l)ing" is ONLY for 3L's - still not great news, but hardly the end of the world.
Kash = pwned.
I'm confused. Wouldn't a 3L be an asset in this market since they wouldn't have to be needlessly wined and dined, given the 3k a week, etc.?
All the 3L's I know have a chip on their shoulder anyway. They would come into a firm with something to prove.
What schools charge employers to come on campus? It seems like a strange thing to do.
Kash = pwned.
In other news, both McKinsey and BCG canceled their interviews at the Warden school. That UPennState place is really going down the toilet...
Locke Lord canceled their Chicago/DC interviews at Georgetown.
I am surprised so many firms are cancelling on UPenn. I thought it was one of the better state schools out there. I remember reading somewhere about it being one of the best values for law school.
4/48/58 - are you so confused that you have to keep hitting the post comment button? Criminy.
Part of UPenn's problem is morale. JoPa is way too old, and the football team is poised to squander yet another favorable schedule.
Kirkpatrick & Stockton isn't a firm.
It's Kilpatrick Stockton.
The UCLA / 3L thing has been corrected.
What schools charge employers to come on campus? It seems like a strange thing to do.
I'm confused. Wouldn't a 3L be an asset in this market since they wouldn't have to be needlessly wined and dined, given the 3k a week, etc.?
All the 3L's I know have a chip on their shoulder anyway. They would come into a firm with something to prove.
On the other hand, Quinn is adding slots at CLS:
"The New York office of Quinn Emanuel has added 2 100% 2L schedules on August 18. "
-from the recruiting office
Must be that big Barbie victory
I am pretty sure UPenn charges employers to come on campus. It is a way to make up for the low in-state tuition.
This is less credible than xoxo
Is anyone else shocked that CWT originally planned on participating in OCI at Case Western?!?!?
According to Fordham Career Planning Office W&C is still coming to EIW.
McCarter & English cancelled their EIW schedule at NYU.
I just received an email stating that the firm of Black Miner's Lung, LLP just canceled OCI at Appalachian
Gunderson Dettmer cancelled at Penn in favor of a resume drop. For serious.
W&C just changed their minds again -- back out of EIW @ Fordham
Hey Lat/Kash;
I have noticed that more and more posts here are geared to law students. I know you are doing it for the increased traffic, but I am letting you know that it sucks. Law school topics suck, the comments in those threads suck, and the idiots who post on those threads hang around and post worthless posts in other threads.
The more this place and its readers resemble xoxo, the less I will return. I suspect I am not alone.
-A Vault 10 Atty and long time reader.
Apparently several firms told UCLA up front that they were only interested in 2Ls, but UCLA put 3Ls on their schedule anyway. Thus, the firms ended up having to "cancel" the interviews for 3Ls. That explains the high number of UCLA appearances on the list.
3:09 / 79 - It's seasonal, and this is recruiting season.
During bonus season, ATL is less interesting to me (as a non-Biglaw reader). But it is probably more interesting to you V10 people.
I think that these posts focus too much on the negative. No one here knows why these firms canceled their interviews. Furthermore, at my school many firms seem to be adding to their interview schedules. Why not also create a list of firms adding slots? Just seems like this is breeding on creating fear because fear is what sells/drives people to look at these lists.
79 and 81 are both wrong - ATL is most interesting when it is appealing to everyone; namely, by linking to bogus stories associated with sperm covered breasts and featuring guest authors such as Hope Winters.
Guns, gold, and government jobs, boys.
Guns, gold, and government jobs.
3:09:
Amen. When I start seeing "subtle XXXXX troll" in comments here, my breaks go somewhere else.
Yes, I realize this virtually guarantees several of those posts in this thread. Go away, you unproductive douches.
MoFo LA did not cancel at Penn.
79, if you are at a v10 firm and have enough time to post on here, it implies you arent making your hours and will get laid off soon. Have fun competing with the dregs from CWT
I'm a law student, and I agree with #79.
Woodcock Washburn pulled out of OCI at Temple
No cancellations at Georgia State University COL.
Wow, nice parallel universe. Anonymously threatening some weirdo with a blog to take your business elsewhere? Is this for real?
Signed,
Thinks You Probably Live in Your Parents' Basement
Agree wth 79. The idiocy at issue is exemplified by 87.
Akin Gump also canceled at Temple.
arent fox cancelled at BU as well
79 , I agree with you 100%.
I think you mean Kilpatrick Stockton LLP cancelled interviews at Georgetown. My google search didn't turn up anything for "Kirkpatrick & Stockton LLP".
I want to know which schools actually charge firms for interviewing. That's bullshit. Like, what the gazillions of dollars students pay in tuition isn't enough to cover it? If I were a student at one of these schools I would be pissed that they weren't using my tuition to help fund interviews, i.e., to help me get a job.
Whatever happened to Greedy Associates? That used to be the source of quality scuttlebutt.
97
I'm happy that law firms are actually willing to pay to interview at my school.
3:35
The schools that charge for interviewing are the ones which employers beg to interview at. Supply and demand, bitches.
Signed,
T6 2L
87 - unfortunately for you and your jealousy-driven ego, most associates who miss their hours will still not be laid off. They will enjoy more free time and still get a nice paycheck, tempered only by occasional job worries and the lack of a bonus for a year. When things pick up, they'll go back to working harder and getting paid even more.
-Biglaw associate with plenty of time to post on ATL
Womble is not having a program in Raleigh or RTP this summer.
White & Case IS interviewing at Fordham. Just spoke to recruiting.
I'm pretty sure that HLS charges firms a few thousand bucks each to participate in OCI. Works to pay the overhead for all of the folks in the career services office I would guess.
Of course it doesn't go to pay for space on campus since the firms all get rooms at the Charles anyway... so who knows where all that money really goes? Probably helps pay for LIPP just like everything else does.
White & Case IS interviewing at Fordham. Just spoke to recruiting.
White & Case IS interviewing at Fordham. Just spoke to recruiting.
33/34 - skadden is canceling on those schools (catholic) that made them start skadden arps etc. in the first place. they were not allowed because they were jewish and so started their own. just ask joe flom (or marty lipton).
16 - There is a school named Temple, and here are our OCI cancellations, quoting an email from career services I just received.
Woodcock Washburn and Akin Gump have decided to cancel their On-Campus Interview Schedules.
agree with 79. I think these topics are fine, but the comments are getting worse and worse.
Unrelated question, but WTF is a cold offer?
What lawyer thought of a way an interviewee could honestly tell interviewers they have an offer when they don't?
Is it that they get an offer for zero days of employment? If anyone's gotten one, just kind of curious about what it actually is.
White & Case is hiring at Fordham. In the furture, please check your sources before you give rising Fordham 2Ls heart attacks.
when are we going to get a post about no-offers?
Is W&C interviewing at Fordham?
100, Did you seriously just sign that "T6"? If you're trying to say you're at a YHSCCN, say so. But if you're at Boalt Hall, I mean Berkeley, and you're too smug to settle for T10 or T14 in your signature, then I'm sorry you're still struggling with that inferiority complex. There's T5, T10, T14, and TTT.
Your signature is actually more ridiculous than some Temple kid signing her post "T48 2L".
And 16 and 89 were right; there really IS a Temple Law School. Who knew?
63 and 71: UPenn is a private school that has really high tuition for in and out of state residents.
Penn State is the cheaper state school.
Anyone else think that it's ironic that the guy in the WP article Lat links to is working in the career services office even though he can't get a job?? Also, the article doesn't note what would have been obvious to a poster here - simply having a degree is not enough, it matters where it is from - it is more difficult to get a job with a graduate degree from UMd then from a higher ranked school.
79, I have complained about the same for too long. As one of the few lawyers who seem to come here I am depressed at how much this site has gone to the dogs. As the man once said, Law Students - they're pretty to look at, and they're fun to fuck, but there is nothing going on upstairs.
And those of us who work in the real world of BIGLAW and busted our ass between '05 and now, and work at firms that are trying to hold us together, wouldn't make glib remarks about people getting fired. Some of our friends, colleagues and even obnoxious formwer class maters have been fired and it is nothign to sneer at. Especially by someone about to get no offered.
White & Case IS NOT interviewing at Fordham. Just spoke to career services.
63 and 71: UPenn is a private school that has really high tuition for in and out of state residents.
Penn State is the cheaper state school.
111:
A cold offer is a non-offer that the firm will claim that they gave you. Basically, it is your firm telling you to tell other people that you interview with that you did get an offer from them even though you didn't.
It is basically your firm promising to lie to potential employers when they call to check on you (or your references at your first firm).
117: amen.
#117, assuming you were once a law student, how many times did you get fucked -- asshole.
I don't think someone getting fired is funny, unless that person did something totally dumbass in order to deserve it. I also don't think that OCI getting cancelled at certain schools is funny either. So to everyone sick of law student posts avoid this webpage until OCI is over and then come back when bigfirms start to hand out bonus checks.
#117, assuming you were once a law student, how many times did you get fucked -- asshole.
I don't think someone getting fired is funny, unless that person did something totally dumbass in order to deserve it. I also don't think that OCI getting cancelled at certain schools is funny either. So to everyone sick of law student posts avoid this webpage until OCI is over and then come back when bigfirms start to hand out bonus checks.
123 -- just an fyi, you have horrible writing skills.
Gee, looks like I hit a nerve. Apparently some of you haven't been reading here as long as you think if you don't realize a common response to "I work at a v10 firm, nananana" is "you re prob getting laid off" but why bother, i'm dealing with people exemplifying their self worth on the internet
And dude, this site has been giong down because there is NOTHING TO WRITE ABOUT because there are no good stories out there combined with crappy new writers. Personally, almost any story Lat wrote about was good. It was when some hack guest editor or noob came in and wrote some 5th grade drivel was it dull.
Lighten up people. You dont' have to come to ATL. It is fun to bash Kash's mistakes or the atl idol's suckitude, but over all, considering the legal market, the site is still good.
I'm just pissed about the new format. Its just as slow as the old one, prob slower, and just looks like ass.
This was an irresponsible post, albeit an amusing one.
With the economy softening and many of the pretender firms starting to really bleed ... doesn't it make sense that the best (and most stable) firms will realize that they are going to be a lot more attractive to candidates this fall, and as such, can just focus on their favorite schools?
I would also expect that the more troubled firms would recognize they are going to have to either fish much deeper in class at top end schools ... or start fishing in some new barrels.
I was lucky to have a hot, gold digging girlfriend in law school who thought I would lead her to the promise land and all she had to do was put out and get her friends drunk and make out with each other (and me), not realizing that my v5 firm would not think too highly of a threesome loving park sex having spouse. So as a law student I didn't get fucked. As a single partner in said firm I am not above admitting to sleeping with many, many law students, but NEVER a summer associate or someone interviewing with us. I wait till after OCI. Coz I'm classy like that.
I was lucky to have a hot, gold digging girlfriend in law school who thought I would lead her to the promise land and all she had to do was put out and get her friends drunk and make out with each other (and me), not realizing that my v5 firm would not think too highly of a threesome loving park sex having spouse. So as a law student I didn't get fucked by lawyers. As a single partner in said firm I am not above admitting to sleeping with many, many law students, but NEVER a summer associate or someone interviewing with us. I wait till after OCI. Coz I'm classy like that.
Refresh your browser to get the current list? If I'm seeing the message "Refresh your browser," then I'm seeing the most recent post. Why would I refresh my browser? So you can get some extra page views?
2:51 --"Part of UPenn's problem is morale. JoPa is way too old, and the football team is poised to squander yet another favorable schedule."
Different school douche bag. JoPa is at Penn St.
Faegre cancelled all of their interviews at USC
a31: UPenn is Penn St.'s Philadelphia campus. idiot.
133--- Retard
http://www.dsl.psu.edu/
http://www.law.upenn.edu/
UPenn is not the same as Penn State you stupid son of a.....