I agree with Bainbridge - its a question of judgment!

I'm THIRDsty.

We used to out cradle robbers in the comments section to blogs all the time in high school. It was no big deal.

5thsky

First Rule of Being a Lawyer: Never put it in writing.

Second Rule of Being a Lawyer: Never put it in a subordinate.

What is the big deal? She was in college right?

Third Rule of Being a Lawyer: Disregard rules 1 and 2 once you make equity partner.

Fourth Rule of Being a Lawyer: By the time rule 3 comes into play, even Viagra won't help you.

First Rule of Posting to the Comments Section: Put all your numbered witticisms in one post, so they don't get broken up by intervening comments posted by other users.

Can we name the firm???

12 - No. Unlike the S & S no-offer, where he was the only person in the entire class to get a no offer, this is different.

If the intern was an asian girl it would be perfectly fine, especially if she was really flat and had a pretty, round face.

- King of WGWAG

Context, context, context. If the SA showed good judgement for the rest of the summer and the hook-up/disclosure was obviously a slip-up, I'd give him an offer. If this was part of a pattern of life-long Frat Studdery, I'd give him the boot... etc.

I generally agree with Professor Bainbridge, that even if the firm was not exposed to potential liability by this sort of behaviour, it shows extremely poor judgment on the part of the summer (and possibly worse, given the power imbalance and alcohol). So why shouldn't the firm fire him? If he behaves like this now, what would he be like in the future?

At its worst, depending on the specific facts this type of behaviour could expose the law firm to liability and/or bad PR (sexual harassment, given the illegal administration of alcohol possibly even sexual assault, etc.).

As for the associate who forwarded the e-mail to the partner in question, was it snitching? Or was it an associate who felt that he was under a positive duty to report behaviour of concern?

14: YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. WGWAG = WHITE GIRLS WITH ASIAN GUYS. WGWAG != WHITE GUYS WITH ASIAN GIRLS. LRN 2 PLAY NOOBIE

Gentlemen in my preparatory school often enjoyed a tardy morsel in the same davenport in which they engaged in coitus, and such gentlemen were neither scoundrel nor canine, it was not a conspicuous event.

-The Original Fraternity Lothario

Ok, so this thread is starting to suck. I'll keep it going.

Was there a creampie? Yay or nay; explain your answer. Go.

That commentary completely misses the point. He wrote an ambiguous e-mail to the snitch. I "sealed the deal" could mean anything: I bought that new computer off Ebay, the one we discussed; I finally finished that M&A review; I recently ate a banana.

It would be one thing if he wrote a vivid description of how he had seduced her, but this was a harmless and facetious e-mail that was turned into a massive scandal.

16 = law school clown

Affirmative duty to 'snitch' on a summer? Jackass...

# 1, I think you're my soulmate.

@ 19 - That's potentially the filthiest thing ever posted on ATL. I like the cut of your jib.

14, out of chivalry, the lady is always mentioned first in the acronym. Thus, the relationship you describe is properly labeled AGWWG. As 17 correct points out, WGWAG refers to caucasian ladies enjoying the company of asian gentlemen.

Love the Nabokov imitation prose on the first post!

16:

A positive duty owed to whom? To the intern? Was she in danger? Was she harmed? From what I gathered, she was all over the summer... So if there were any positive duty owed to anybody, it would be to the firm (i.e., the authority). Hence, a snitch.

Other than that, I agree with you. And it was just the worst exercise of judgment to put it in writing. There's a reason why we have locker rooms (for men) and powder rooms (for women).

18, a "tardy morsel" "in" a davenport?
That doesn't make sense.

Don't have enough facts to make a competent judgment. How drunk was the college student? How old the law student? What was their relationship like before? After? Is he a drinker? Is she the MP's daughter?

Me: either "no offer" or "cold offer" depending. ITRW, #16's right. Snipe all you want, but it WAS stupid of him.

Lat never said you couldn't name the firm. Someone do it.

the firm was fitzgerald & fitzgerald.

we fight for you!

Profile of this SA:
He's a predator,
with a small penis,
who has relationship issues with his mother,
and every other strong woman,
which is why he targets the young.

Oh yeah, he prolly has child porn on his home PC.

This is dumb. The SA didn't deserve to get fired for doing the intern, he deserved to be fired for EMAILING employees about it.

The firm should have no-offered the summer. I mean, what the hell- you've got 7 weeks to get a job in a down economy when you know you're just about to be swimming in student loans in a year, and you literally screw it up by tappin' some college ass at your workplace? Then kiss and tell like you yourself are still in college? Come on. I wouldn't trust this guy to decide a damned thing on a case, or anywhere else.

There are plenty of times, ways and places to get laid, and if you can't make a decent judgment to wait or choose someone else until you have an offer, you don't deserve a dime in this economy.

#29 - Go look at previous post - snitch and firm are outed at around post 150ish...

#19 - is that Bess Levin?

16 - all these hypotheticals that are unrealistic and naive.

This SA's crucial mistake is not that he hooked up with the intern, but that he sent an email to co-workers bragging about it. There would be alot of people without jobs if an ill-advised sexual conquest was all that was required. However, I agree that proclaiming it to the world is complete stupidity and I would probably have no-offered the summer too if I had been in the HP's shoes.

With regards to the snitch, he is either a complete asshole or an overzealous do-gooder/brown-noser. I wouldn't want to have to interact with either type of person. My high school had a no-sex-on-campus rule, but would I rat out a friend who had sex with a cheerleader in the utility closet just because it was against the rules?

Educated Frat Stud

The firm's name is still in the comments thread from yesterday.

16, agreed, if the account given is accurate, the SA was not the one responsible for buying her drinks, and she was apparently the one who initiated whatever went on. Though he makes more money, he is not her supervisor in any meaningful sense, and a one-time consensual fling would not constitute sexual harassment. That sort of thing occasionally does go on between associates, interns, and paralegals in law firms (for example at the annual holiday party), and its not a big deal (as you know who would say). If anyone did find out about it, it could be chalked up to a drunken mistake, and that should have been the end of the matter.
But he bragged about it, in writing no less, and that was the real lack of judgment - it made a record of what happened, presumably embarrassing the intern, and made the SA sound cavalier about the whole thing. It was the emailing an account to other firm personnel that merits the no offer.

#33 is right on. It was the judgement. Who cares about consensual sex that is no big deal...emailing co-workers when you are essentially interviewing is DUMB and DUMBER.

The way I heard the story, it wasn't an email sent by the Summer, but a text message. The Associate received it on his work Blackberry (which was also his phone), and he forwarded it as an email. I don't know if that makes a big difference, but it's not like the Summer used firm email to publicize his conquest.

Also, I understand the Summer and Intern started seeing each other, so it wasn't a one-off-drunken-hook-up.

But, I heard all this from a guy in my high school who liked to date Asian girls, and he didn't think it was a big deal, so none of that may be true...

no, the comments identifying the firm etc have now been removed from yesterday's post

39: that's what I previously argued. The story has been blown up, but it sounds reasonable whenever someone narrates it.

The guy sent a text message to a snitch, who proceeded to make a big deal out of it. Furthermore, all the message said was that he had "sealed the deal." As I previously suggested, that's so radically ambiguous that you can't interpret it as we've been reading.

To the best of my limited understanding, this was a consensual act with a brief and facetious epilogue. Perhaps the firm needed a special reason to no-offer.

The other thing about what "the snitch" did is that he compromised the privacy of the young female intern. The SA shouldn't have did what he did, but why did the associate decide to pass on the information about her? He could have just kept it to himself.

Look- Professor, partners and associates "date" frequently, and that's a real sexual harassment issue as opposed to the situation here, which was between two interns. So, the idea that this summer's judgment was so lacking is wacky and is out-of-touch with the documented behavior of a sizable segment of the legal community.

And, as for the idea that he fucked up by emailing/texting-- that's classic results-oriented analysis. Nearly everyone, including probably all of the commenters, have sent emails about gossip and personal relationships. This email ended in disaster for the sender, the other 10,000,000 went un-noticed.

But, people love to rationalize a questionable management decision to make themselves feel like they're secure in their jobs-- really hope it helps you sleep at night. I'm sure you never got drunk and slept with anyone.

If 39 is correct that the pair starting seeing each other, that changes everything.

However, that aside, I think it's astonishing that everyone seems to think it's ok to hook up with a girl who's falling all over herself drunk. Maybe that was or was not the situation here, and maybe the hook-up itself is irrelevant to one's job (although the judgment demonstrated later might be). But I would have expected more integrity from the vast majority of posters here. Say it shouldn't have cost him his job, but don't say hooking up with school-aged drunk chicks is ok. It's not.

Bottom line is that this kid was probably the kind of person who thinks that becoming a lawyer means banging hot chicks and driving ferraris.

I'm okay with the outcome if that's true.

"why did the associate decide to pass on the information about her? "

I guess for the same reason the dim-witted SA chose to pass the information on to him--because neither of them is the brightest bulb in the chandelier?

45: why not? I'm not familiar with the legal or moral issues here, so I would appreciate some insight. College situations made it seem like drunk consent was the same as regular consent, provided that the woman understood that she was agreeing to sexual intercourse.

It ain't no fun, if the homies can't have none!

42 - Yes, it is. Read further in that post and the "snitch" is named...allegedly. No one confirms that. Prob why Lat is mum - and rightfully so.

50: the names were deleted and the post locked: just the firm name remains.

Lat - You should remove the firm's name for the last post and this one if you are serious about protecting anyone involved.

"I would have expected more integrity from the vast majority of posters here."

Are you on medication? The vast majority of posters here are xoxo regugee douches of the highest order. They wouldn't have a problem banging a girl who was comotose, let alone falling-down drunk; and if they chose to brag about it, they would expect their fellow douches to adhere to their "bro's before ho's" Code of Conduct and just trash her reputation instead of questioning their judgment. That's why you see the response you're seeing here.

#16 again...

Was the summer one of the people who could assign work to the intern? Did he buy her drinks? Did he have a pattern of questionable behavior and this was the last straw? What are the law firm's written policies (if any) regarding reporting possible sexual harassment? I don't know the answer to any of these questions.

For that matter, if he didn't "close the deal" but lied that he did, then depending on the jurisdiction that could be defamation per se of the intern...

As for snitching, if I was an associate who might (under the firm's policies) face termination for failure to report the summer's (or intern's) behaviour, why would I risk my job by keeping silent?

I once (reluctantly, but I considered it necessary) reported another lawyer to more senior firm personnel in a situation involving (among other things) sexual harassment of several women. I first obtained ethical advice, the behaviour had been going on for months when I found out about it, the women in question were afraid to report it themselves, and I couldn't stand the lawyer in question -- but it was still surprisingly difficult for me to report it!

The post lacks sufficient information to determine whether the SA should have received an offer, i.e. how was his work product ect. ect.

In addition, he might have been eligible for an offer but not a high-5 for his indiscrete email behavior.

Assuming that the firm did not feel that giving the SA a stern talking to was an option, a cold offer would have been preferable.

One possibility that no one has considered, what if the SA lied about closing the deal with the intern? That would place the email in a different light.

Anyone who has made it past sophomore year in HS knows that such braggadocio is usually BS.

To read between the lines --

The self-imposed intoxication of the summer intern heightens the severity of the offense

But any intoxication of the SA should not be considered a mitigating factor

Double standard?

He definitely should not be cold offered. That 18% of you need to crap or get off the pot. Cold offers are for when you think the person will be a decent attorney but the firm needs to trim its class. In this scenario you either think the person displayed bad judgement and will therefore be a bad attorney and should be no offered or you think "it was no big deal" and the incident should not affect the offer.

The cold offer only comes into play if you think it was no big deal but the intern was the boss's daughter and you have to cut the SA for political reasons.

Ok, with no names or firm names this may have well taken place in Fantasy Land or Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory.

BORING.

18 - What are you talking about? I just reread the story and there was nothing about the SA having a snack after banging the intern.

Go back to public school and leave Fraternity Lothario to someone that actually went to prep school.

46, Becoming a lawyer doesn't mean "banging hot chicks and driving ferraris?"

I just wasted 3 years and $150,000. I knew I should have met with that banking recruiter. But the interview was so early and I'd been up so late night before banging hot chicks.

Was the intern a fattie? If yes, then the bad judgment call stands. If she was a hottie, overturned on instant replay.

58, we are NOT supposed to name the employer, and there you go telling everyone its Wonka's firm.

If you mention that the intern was Veruca Salt and the SA Augustus Gloop, you are seriously going to be in trouble!

27 I suspect the Lothario was referring to eating and screwing in the same place, which is a better metaphor than shitting and eating in the same place since sex = shitting, unless messy butsecs is involved.

I would fire the snitch. He is a weasel of the highest order. If the SA is a man he should get his revenge one day when this snitch least expects it. Only way to stop these snitches is to punish them.

63, yes, but "tardy morsel" is completely nonsensical. Perhaps he meant to say "tidy morsel." And saying "in" rather an "on" a davenport is also illogical. He writes like he doesn't know what all the words mean and is going by a vague memory of what certain phrase should sound like.
I agree with 59 - 18 is not cut out to be Fraternity Lothario.
-27

Wasn't the SA's real crime attaching the photo to the text message? Seems over the line.

Wasn't the SA's real crime attaching the photo to the text message? Seems over the line.

my favorite part of this post are the female associates who are past 30 getting angry that men like 18 year old women, and claiming there is something wrong with that.

that being said, this SA is a moron and deserved to get fired. Not because he went home with her. because he kissed and told. In writing. to another associate.

Moron.

my favorite part of this post are the female associates who are past 30 getting angry that men like 18 year old women, and claiming there is something wrong with that.

that being said, this SA is a moron and deserved to get fired. Not because he went home with her. because he kissed and told. In writing. to another associate.

Moron.

For longtime readers:

No, 66-67, no, no, no, the drunk girl who spilled her drink was not a summer associate at all, why isn't anyone talking about that?!

Word on the street is that the SA lied about the text message only to boast....he never ACTUALLY had a relationship with the intern...

So obvious so many haters on this site NEVER get laid. What a bunch of losers!

I need your opinions--I just finished summering at a Vault 25 firm and have an offer in hand. A very hot member of the recruiting staff called me and asked me if I wanted to "hang out". She had been coming on to me a little bit at summer events but I didn't pursue it. Let me repeat she is HOT. Do i go for it or do I politely tell her it is not a good idea. I really want honest opinions of the negatives. The positives I am very well aware of.

Your choice is clear, 73

NO MATTER WHAT do NOT tell her "it is not a good idea."

Either see her or not, but if not, make up somthing plausible.

73, accept the offer, then hook up with her. and don't tell anyone over firm email.

No harm in "hanging out", unless she comes onto you and you say no (bad) OR you say yes and she is dating a partner, they have a fight, and she tells him about you to get even OR (the downside is hard to quantify here...

Remember, if you go for it and don't thereby queer the offer you are going to be seeing this person ever day for years to come....

73: this might be an elaborate trap by the firm to yank your offer!

77-Your last sentence sealed it for me. Even if things go great for a while-what happens if they sour? Real uncomfortable situation for me. I think Bainbridge is correct---"Don't shit where you eat"
73

You, sir, are a better man than I.

73, do you think she is just looking for the hookup, or is she looking for something more serious?

If it's just a hookup then it would probably be okay as long as you don't make a habit of it - anything more than 3 times and you're getting serious (the rule of 3).

If you think she's interested in a more long term thing, then for sure don't do it. You're going to start a career at this firm. The pressure of starting a new career is going to be intense and you don't need that added baggage around your neck.

The real crime here is this post and how totally boring it is.

Never, ever get involved with one of the summer interns. This goes for full-timers too. In my experience, the interns (not to be confused with SAs) are all connected to some big client or EP. Think about what these people do. If you jilt him or her, big client and/or EP is going to come looking for you.

Bragging about it just made it worse. Surefire way to get canned. Even if the associate hadn't made it known, word would have definitely got around. Trust me, you don't really want that reputation around the office.

I agree with 78. This is probably a crafty way thinning the herd.

But if you must hang out with her make sure there is no evidence: call her on a prepaid phone, pay for everything in cash, and avoid security cameras. That way if you need to deny the encounter, it's your word against hers.

Good lord....there are are some real idiots who post here.

First of all, there is no chance that this is the firm trying to get you into something. "Um, we need to cut one summer, but we can't afford to not give him an offer, that would be too risky. So let's have our recruiter hook up with him instead, then revoke the offer also. Because that wouldn't be risky at all". Morons.

Second of all, there's I doubt the post is even real.

But in case it is, anyone want to guess the firm? 10 bucks on sidley

I really doubt this is a way to "thin the herd." The recruiting hottie has initiated contact, which leaves electronic records. Suffice to say, a firm would not want that splattered all over during the inevitable shitstorm of yanking an offer due to the hookup.

And stay away from summer interns. Daddy probably is worth mid-eight figures and could crush you like an insect if/when you break daughter's heart. Forget losing your job at the firm; you won't be able to get another job in town.

45 - "But I would have expected more integrity from the vast majority of posters here. "

Thank you. I have not laughed that hard in months.