I've gotten so fat sitting on my ass reviewing docs, I prefer C cups.

"No undershirt" = disgusting.

No undershirt/sleeveless t-shirt = not good for your shirt b/c of direct armpit contact.

1 = MANGINA

Carson Kressler (spelling?) has a good explanation of why the wifebeater is never the correct choice. The point of these cotton undershirts is to absorb perspiration and various secretions, leaving your Oxford dress shirts looking clean and keeping them from rapid deterioration.

The wifebeater, oddly enough, doesn't prevent that deterioration because of its peculiar shape. Therefore, it defeats its own purpose. Save it for when you want to look tough in bed, but, otherwise, don't bother wearing it.

The V-neck is the classic choice, IMO, because you don't look like you're wearing a bra underneath your dress shirt. Not that a male bra wouldn't be a turn-on for some . . . .

Showing a crew neck t-shirt under your dress shirt is far too informal for the office. If you want to dress like that, you shouldn't have been a lawyer.

Its an UNDERSHIRT. Would you show your underwear? Idiots.

Not everyone is a sweatball. No undershirt works fine for me because I am not working in a sweatshop where I am constantly sweating through my work shirts. Also, I only wear a work shirt once, to where more than once without a dry clean is a sin.

The v-neck is the only one that makes sense, because you can't see the t-shirt when you unbutton your collar. The crewneck looks unprofessional unless you're totally buttoned up.

That Dealbreaker post is great. Bess Levin is hilarious.

Gay Man's Analysis:

Crew: I'd only wear this with shirts that match. There are certain cotton shirts that are soft enough to make this work. If the shirt is crisp (both in color and texture), the crew shirt will look tacky. It also depends on where the second button is. Some shirts button high; some low. If it's too low, it's a no-go on the crewneck. You want to minimize undershirt exposure.

Wifebeater: Eh. You could do this, but it doesn't protect the armpit at all, yo.

No undershirt: Same problem as wifebeater. Also, it's just not comfortable. I used to do no undershirt (I'm not a big sweater), but have since grown partial to the undershirt as a soft layer between me and my stiff wrinkle-free shirts.

V-Neck: BEST CHOICE. You get all the benefits of a crewneck shirt, but no one sees the white collar of the undershirt (which, as mentioned, looks tacky). This could fail though. Whatever you do, make sure the V is deep enough. A poking-out v-neck is screams: I tried, but I failed.

Crewneck is preferred, as no one wants to see your pornstar chest curls, or for some, your metro-styled pre-pubescent weirdness.

Six is right: save the beaters for the Jersey Shore. Relatedly, that's also the only time it's appropriate for dudes to wear any jewelry besides a wedding band.

If you choose to go sans-tie, the only thing visible in the resulting opening of your shirt is skin. No chains, no undershirts, and no unruly chest hair.

This is basic knowledge, no?

Crewnecks work the best because, unlike v-necks and wifebeaters, their outline isn't easily detectable beneath the dress shirt. Wifebeaters don't solve the sweat problem, and the v-neck looks bizarre when you can see it through the dress shirt---especially if you're wearing a tie.

13: In my experience, most women are turned on by some chest hair, and trimmed hair is regarded as sexy and masculine.

14: I love how you repeat what everyone else has said in worser English.

It's not as simple as just going with the V-neck. If your shirt has low buttons, you'll show WAY too much chest. If your shirt has high buttons, you would have been fine with the crew neck anyway. Only one dude in my office ever exposes any chest, and he's South American.

A V-neck if you must. When people can see your crew T sticking out you look like a doofus.

Or if your cool like me you can get away with none. On the rare occasion I do sweat, that jsut means the shirt goes in the laundry.

Also, wearing the T shirt makes one hotter and increases sweating, so it sometimes creates its own demand, if that makes sense.

As a female associate, I have to vote in favor of the crewneck. No one wants to see chest hair in the office, which can potentially occur with a v-neck and a collared shirt not fully buttoned.

9 is correct. That is all.

"Wearing the T-shirt makes one hotter . . . so it sometimes creates its own demand."

17 = brilliant economist. Easily the smartest thing I've ever read on ATL.

8 - unless your shirts are made of some unusual fabric, they are probably laundered rather than dry cleaned.

americans are funny with their obsession with undershirts, and the embarassment that ensues if any skin is exposed - soooooo puritanical its hilarious.

How is it ever acceptable to show any chest? Hair is gross (that is, to other men), a shaved chest is homo-erotic, trimmed chest hair sinks to the lowly depths of utter d-baggery. I cannot imagine any set of circumstances under which it would acceptable to see another man's chest in the office. Cover it up with a crew neck or just wear a tie.

OK, so I have the only job left in America that requires a tie. So I am indifferent between crew and v-neck. When I DO wear open collar, v-neck.

Having said that...how many buttons are you all leaving open that significant amount of chest hair shows? For real, you've got to be like those guys in the photo on the Dealbreaker site. As Seinfeld taught us from its very first episode, the placement of that second button "literally makes or breaks the shirt." Either that, or you've got some kind of grotesque frontal-neck-hair going on...

18: It's my impression that most women are turned on by hairy, masculine men. Correct? I don't think that you're representative of your sex's aesthetic orientations.

americans are funny with their obsession with undershorts, and the embarassment that ensues when even a little bit of skin is exposed - so puritanical its hilarious!

Here's a question from a 1L - approximately what percentage of BigLaw requires guys to always wear suits?

Personally I go the wifebeater route. Barring that, at least wear a v-neck. A crewneck under a dress shirt looks trashy.

Showing your chest in the office is little analogous to jogging in the city with your shirt off when it's not quite hot enough to be justifiable.

25: Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a manly man with a reasonable amount of hair on his chest. However, most law firm associates don't fit the bill. Save it for the clubs ...

this is not difficult - wear a vneck with the top button undone. wear a crewneck with a tie.

30: good point. For some reason, most young associates aren't very hairy. The lack of facial hair and lanky paleness -- partially a byproduct of long hours inside -- contribute to the image of the young lawyer as, well, young.

W/ a Tie - crewneck; want to look like a peice of sh!t? wear a v-neck w/ a tie & a white shirt that shows the v through the shirt.

Open Collar - v-neck; that crew neck tshirt looks awesome w/ nice pants & shirt, right? get a f'ing clue.

And fwd point/spread collars look like shit w/o a tie; don't hate on button down collars. Get some perspective and realize that youre no damned model; stop gleaning your rules from GQ covers or fashion billboards. i wouldn't wear one w/ a suit at night or to a more formal event, but their absolutely approp for work.

W/ a Tie - crewneck; want to look like a peice of sh!t? wear a v-neck w/ a tie & a white shirt that shows the v through the shirt.

Open Collar - v-neck; that crew neck tshirt looks awesome w/ nice pants & shirt, right? get a f'ing clue.

And fwd point/spread collars look like shit w/o a tie; don't hate on button down collars. Get some perspective and realize that youre no damned model; stop gleaning your rules from GQ covers or fashion billboards. i wouldn't wear one w/ a suit at night or to a more formal event, but their absolutely approp for work.

if you have enough chest/neck hair that it's a problem with an open collar shirt and vneck, well, then you have bigger issues to deal with than deciding what undershirt to wear.

This whole thread is as gay as an Easter Parade . . .

hmm...what's worse, wearing a crew neck with the top button undone or wearing a button down shirt without buttoning it down? tough call...

Tie = white crewneck; no tie = black crewneck.
Showing the black crewneck lets them know you mean business, and will rip off the dress shirt and throw down if they f*ck with you.

Wearing an undershirt is seriously dressing a dress shirt down. Does anyone really think that dress shirts were designed to be worn with undershirts? Weird american trend....

Gotta love the straight man who can't dress POV's here. Next time, have your imaginary girlfriend dress ya and be done with it.

As a female, I need to comment that it is totally disgusting and gross when a guy doesn't wear an undershirt. It honestly makes me want to vomit. . . you see man nipples and I hate to break it to you guys, but most of you do not have the chest where I want to ses your nipples and think of you shirtless. Therefore, when I see your nipples and think of you shirtless, I kind of vomit a little.

WIFE BEATERS ALL THE WAY!!!!

According to the poll, over 50% think that the crew neck is fine. Everyone who disagrees with this is just letting the terrorists (who most likely have a lot of chest hair as well) win.

WIFE BEATERS ALL THE WAY!!!!

Gotta love the straight man who can't dress POV's here. Next time, have your imaginary girlfriend dress ya and be done with it.

Undershirts haven't been the way to go post-1934 - the year Clark Gable changed the rules when he removed his dress shirt in "It Happened One Night" - and viewers noted the absence of an undershirt. Why would one not take fashion cues from Clark Gable?

I'm sitting here in a crew neck with an open collar and am suddenly very self-conscious.

An exposed chest connotes poor personal hygiene and body odor. In a professional environment, I would err on the side of being a d-bag and wearing a crew neck. The person who gives you your annual review is not thinking about how cool you look.
That being said, on weekends the only acceptable choice is a black dress shirt with the top 4 buttons undone.

in Cali, nobody wears suits. not sure about NY

The poll lacks a "no underpants" option. Disappointed.

My name is BigLaw Associate.
I'm 26 years old.
I believe in taking care of myself, in a balanced diet, in a rigorous document review routine.
ln the morning, before I answer my first voice mail,
I eat firm-subsidized breakfast sandwhiches while logging into my e-mail: I can eat seven now.
After I finish the breakfast sandwiches, I loosen my tie.
Under my non-iron, I always wear a v-neck t-shirt.
Then a crisp, but not too-tight tie.
And on the waist, an elastic belt-line, allowing for weight gain.
Then I drink my first of seven redbulls,
which l enjoy for five minutes while I prepare the rest of my caffeine.
I always wear a dress shirt with little or no chest exposure,
because chest hair grosses out your co-workers and makes you look older.
Then firm-subsidized lunch,
then an afternoon snack over document review,
followed by a final firm-subsidized dinner.
There is an idea of a BigLaw Associate.
Some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me.
Only an entity-- something fantastical from law school.
And though I can hide my cold gaze...
and you can read my emails and feel like I actually care...
and may be you can even sense I am working hard at my TTT firm,
I simply am not there.

41 = hilarious!

41 = hilarious!

41 = hilarious!

Dudes:

With tie: crew neck
Open collar: v-neck

Killing time at your desk waiting to be laid off: wifebeater

crew necks belong in the same category as rubber soled kenneth coles and black suits.

Good effort, 51.

Pfft. Gaudy jewelry and wifebeaters totally make the litigator.

http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/y/Q/athfcarl.jpg

To 9:
Dress shirts, like cashmere, should be gently laundered, not drycleaned. Drycleaning damages the fabric.

48, exposed chest? how many buttons do you leave undone? at work, only 1 should be left unbuttoned.

Wife beater outline under a shirt on a fat man is the female equivalent to gross, as I would assume of you guys seeing the nipples of the 60 year old fat secretary with the saggy boobs. Just stop it.

I am a student at American University starting on-campus interviews tomorrow. What type of undershirt goes best with the tuxedo that I rented for my interviews?

Women don't care about your undershirt as long as you're funny, intelligent, and a fun person. Stop worrying.

Wifebeater. Just in case shit goes down.

63: I'm a woman and I definitely care. No undershirt is gross, especially under a white shirt (some douchebag here does it all the time).

I wish 11 was my fashion consultant. I'm absolutely pathetic, although I did get the V neck undershirt right at least, since I sweat like a buffalo.

11 -- come to think of it, do you have any recommendations for deodorant for really bad sweaters? I use Old Spice Sport, but by the end of the day I completely stink.

I agree with 55. I'd also add that I think that a crewneck is o.k. even without a tie PROVIDED that your dress shirt has a button down collar (polo collar in Brooks Brothers parlance).

Does anyoneone know what Brooks Brothers, "How a Gentlement Gets Dressed" has to say on the matter?

67, shut up. The brooks brothers mention gave me diarhea.

I like how all the Yankees around here get all Puritanical when it comes to the exposure of a couple of inches of a man's chest. For the record the only people who wear undershirts in Florida are old men and d-bags. Northerners are a different matter, especially in the colder months. Adding another layer in the summer months doesn't make any sense. Unless your idol is Fred McMurray.

---Florida lawyer

If these are the only choices I vote for crew. Gotta cover the chest hair. I actually prefer a dickie. Covers the hair w/o the hassle of a double tuck. Belly shirts work for this too.

Great debate. Bravo ATL.

Crews are for tools. Especially when worn without a tie so that they show.

The sweating comments should be ignored. We're lawyers who work in air conditioned offices, not construction workers.

Finally, if you insist on wearing an undershirt, and you're not wearing a tie, then first choice is a wifebeater, second choice is a quality v-neck.

And 41, if you're seeing nipples, better dress shirts are the first answer. Then, see above.

I'm in my firm's Bratislava office, everyone wears v-neck undershirts here.

HTH

When I come home and remove my dress shirt after a long, hard day of document review and reviewing ATL drivel a crew neck looks better in the mirror.

And, for those of you who say your undershirt should not show when your collar is unbuttoned, fcking your collar should not be unbuttoned in the first place; and in the second place, if it is unbuttoned then you are casual (too much so for me) and your undershirt showing is permissible.

To the economist above who doesn't sweat-- the undershirt creates its demand-you are a schmuck, check, smelly schmuck.

71,

It might not be the shirt, it might just be incredibly large and pointy man nipples (think a baby bottle).

:)

71, have you ever been on a NYC subway platform? Most of us have to actually commute to work, but maybe you live in your office. Moron.

Are you kidding me Lat? This is the crap you write about? Stupid topic!

71 is definitely some single practicioner in some red state, not a NY lawyer.

NY lawyer, wear a goddamn undershirt.

I love to suck on my partners large man nipples. . . it's my crack! Other associates chug redbulls at 11pm, not me. I suckle some of that creative juice out of Bob's giant nipples. Yummy. . . and they say breastfeeding increases brain activity!

My rule of thumb, for what it is worth at this point, relies on the color of the dress shirt. The lighter the color, the more acceptable it is to go with a white crew neck underneath. White dress shirts, obviously, pale yellow, pale pink, very pale blue, etc. With darker shirts, you get too much contrast with the undershirt causing the undershirt to stand out. So, the lighter shirts can take a crew neck, darker shirts take a V and really dark shirts should stand alone.

Best analysis came from DB's GAnalYst:

Re the undershirts: vneck when not wearing a tie, crew under a shirt and tie. Problem is that its sometimes difficult to keep your crews and v's under control. I admit, I've been guilty of putting a v under a shirt and tie, when I'm in a hurry and cant find a crew. [snip] As for no undershirt cause its warm: the undershirt actually wicks the moisture away from you skin and thus keeps you cooler than no shirt.

In [his] office on casual days the style seems to be interesting Pink or Tyrwhitt spread collar shirts, nice flat front slacks. Like almost anything, looks really good on a good looking, well built guy. For someone less lucky in the looks and build department (be honest here), do something less showy.

[snip]

Finally, dont scrimp on the shoes. So many cheap shoes, which you can spot in 5 seconds. Buy Alden's. No Johnson Murphy. Allen Edmonds is barely acceptable - go for the extra few bucks. Cap toed lace ups with suits, low vamp loafers for casual days. Shell cordovan (thats a type of leather, not the color), around $600 but they last 10 years if you take care of em. [snip]

Damn, the boy's got it so, so right. Especially about the shoes. Kinda gives me the shivers... but in a Hermes sort of way. And white is the only color for an undershirt, gawddammit.

I just take an old pair of whitey tighties, cut a big hole in the middle of the crotch for my head, stick my arms through the leg holes, and wear it like a cut-off tee. Is that wrong?

Morons. If you really want to impress at the highest levels, only wear your shirt once, always with a tie, and with two crew neck t shirts. At noon, enter the mens' changing area of the sleeping quarters and remove the bottom garment. Wear one t shirt until 8 p.m. Then return to the mens' changing area, and replace the t shirt with a fresh one. When you get home between 2 a.m. and 3 a.m., simply remove both the tshirt and the button down shirt and throw them away. Have your assistant replenish your supply every week, and fire her if she gets it wrong. That way, you are discarding everything that could potentially get you in trouble: shirt, 3 undershirts, and assistant (weekly).

Vneck all the way.

And I have no problem showing some chest hair in the office. Its usually not an issue with dress shirts, since I only leave the very top button open in the office, but when I wear a two-button polo shirt during the summer, I don't button any of the buttons.

re 80: Jonhson Murphy and Allen Edmonds are fine shoe choices. I absolutely agree that shoes are important, but more like the brands he lists vs. cheap florsheims or other thinly-constructed sole, cheap leather brands. If he's making a fashion comparison among the brands, that's one thing, but JM and AE shoes are both well-constructed and will hold up for years as well.

83,

ewww!! Do you also wear polyester suits, gold chains, and grease your hair back. I bet you're also a greaseball Greek NY residential broker who caters to college kids and not a lawyer too! I know you!

who has so much chest hair that it shows when they don't button the very top button of their collar?

If you're wearing the T-shirt as an outergarment, definitely crewneck.

If you're wearing it under a dress shirt at the office, and the office is business casual, definitely V-neck. (1) if you're not wearing a tie, the shirt shouldn't be buttoned all the way to the top. (2) if your top button is undone, a crew neck collar will show, but a V-neck collar will not. (3) showing crew neck collar under dress shirt = ghetto.

borderline-related question:

Men's Wearhouse sells those "no iron, wrinkle-free" dress shirts. Do these shirts actually stay pressed without ironing or dry cleaning, or is this is a scam?

sleeveless is disgusting.

my ratted armpit pubes would soak my shirt in minutes if i went sleeveless.

too bad us men are too retarded to shave our precious armpit pubes.

I am SHOCKED by the "women" in this thread. For years, I thought that showing a little chest was the key to sexiness.

If you're business casual, then a v-neck is the only way to go because with the top button not buttoned, you won't be able to see the undershirt.

Normally, this is the same for when wearing a tie. But a crew neck is preferrable with light colored dress shirts -- mostly white ones -- because a v-neck's outline will be visible under the white shirt whereas a crew neck will not be.

31 has it right.

wifebeaters aren't good for anything except irony or the jersey shore

another key question: is it okay to wear a crew neck with a tie? Lately, I've seen people with ties on and their crew neck peaks out the top a little. If you can't keep your crew neck under your tie and collar, don't wear it with a tie.

90,

Not in the office. And a good chest is sexier under a shirt, leave me something to fantasize about in the elevator. Showing chest is trashy. For example, equally attractive women, wouldn't you rather have the classily dressed lady in the figure showing dress than the girl who walks around the office in the inappropriately short and tight skirt that everyone giggles about behind thier back. Think about it. Showing chest is the male equivalent to dressing trampily. At least for me (28 years old NY BLA). However, maybe the old ladies like it. Who knows.

Crewneck, V-neck -- I don't see much of a difference. It's the wifebeaters/nothing that I want to avoid. Like my fellow commenters, I need to avoid the tell-tale signs of sweating under the pressure.

88, the mens wearhouse shirts can get a tad wrinkly.

Best wrinkle free shirts are probably brooks brothers and jos a bank. The brooks brothers look like they were actually ironed and I think they have magical powers. Nordstrom smartcare is decent.

Lat, why not do an article on mens' disgusting, unshaved armpit snatches?

94: I would prefer the second woman. It shows that she's not afraid to put it out there and that she's brazen and interesting -- two qualities that men absolutely love.

11,

My chest hair is matted and dreadlocked, does that have any impact on your advice?

98,

I prefer a woman dressed in a well cut black dress to a lady who wears a too short snake print mini and hooker shoes to the office, but that's just me. The one's who are better in bed are always the one's who don't try to ooze sex in public.

Most women are not turned on by hairy men you stupid jackass.

How many hairy male models do you see?

None, that's right.

Women liking hair is a myth perpetuated by ugly hairy men.

It's not supposed to be an either or. The two necks were designed to provide for either open- or closed-collared shirts.

A v-neck with a tie gives you chest V.P.L. and a crew-neck with an open collar shows your undershirt.

Your undershirt collar should match your shirt collar. How is that complicated?

Alright, alright: It's time for a thread on which men can comment on women's ridiculous office clothing choices.

Here are some starters:

(1) Just because the shoes are $550 and/or have red soles doesn't make them "cute," and certainly doesn't make them office-appropriate if you want to be taken seriously. More of us are laughing behind your back than aren't.

(2) Thigh (not knee, but thigh) is inappropriate.

(3) Things that aren't really clothing, like weird half-tunics, boa-like things, etc. are also, yup, inappropriate. Yes, you and your one "fashionista" friend in the office might show off your outfits to each other in the morning, but more of us know you look ridiculous than think you look "super cute."

You don't all have to shop at Ann Taylor, but get a clue...

86 - Me, and I don't enjoy having to routinely shave the top of my chest.

Crew neck. I would rather see your undershirt than your chest hair.

If you wear no undershirt or a wifebeater, you are nasty.

End of discussion.

103,

Those girls must be paralegals or something. . . they can't be lawyers! What lawyer wears a half tunic to work?

Red soled Christian Loubitans are always cute, but I agree they are not always office appropriate.

Ann Taylor sucks.

88 -
first, do you want to look like you're straight out of technical college? . . . then, why are you shopping at men's wearhouse?

second, as for no iron shirts from other places - like, say, Brooks Brothers - they sort of work. Much better than normal shirts, but they sometimes need a little touch up after coming out of the dryer.

106 - Nope, she's a lawyer and not junior. She seriously does; I've seen it twice in one week. She'll wear a fairly normal outfit...and then put this half-tunic thing over it. We are business casual, but most seem to make it work while not looking like fools.

Oh, and she's sort of...not hot.

crewneck undershirt under dress shirt = FAIL.

it looks sloppy when the collar of the undershirt peeks out above the dress shirt. that crap might work in high school, but it looks juvenile at a law firm.

108,

i love it! I sometimes feel guilty I wear boring dress shirts and slacks everday, but you just made me feel much better that I do this instead of trying to "office cute."

And it's always the not hot one's showing too much leg in the office.

Thank you,

Junior female lawyer who dresses boringly.

Seriously? Your undershirt shouldn't show, so why would anyone wear a crewneck when they're not wearing a tie and thus not buttoning their shirt all the way up? That's disgraceful.

Men,

Your undershirt is your "under wear." Just like a woman's bra is her "under wear." This means that it should not show and is also necessary. A woman lawyer should not be showing her bra at work, and should not be showing up to work without a bra. It's that simple. Therefore, crew neck with tie. V neck with no tie. Definitely never not wear an undershirt. It's pretty damn simple. 111 comments on this is retarded.

Crewneck is only acceptable if you're wearing a tie so none of it shows. If your undershirt still "peeks" out of your dress shirt when you have the dress shirt buttoned all the way up and a tie around your neck, time to get better dress shirts (hint: they don't come in M, L, XL).

You morons who say only v-necks with open collared shirts keep ignoring the mutliple purposes of an under shirt, which have been stated above. It's not just to soak up sweat but also to cover skin/hair. A lot of shirts show too much with even one button undone.

Crew neck undershirt -- looks good under dress shirt WITH a tie, but looks terrible without a tie, as 109 eloquently puts it

V-neck undershirt - looks good under an open-collared dress shirt worn without a tie, but this kind of shirt terrible WITH a tie because the v is often visible through the buttoned-up shirt and looks tacky.

No shirt - a possibility if you don't perspire much and don't mind not having a layer between you and the dress shirt.

Wifebeater - the worst choice of all because the outline is usually visible through the dress shirt, and it really doesn't look good under anything

v-neck.

crewneck showing is completely wrong. like white socks with dress shoes - a clear sign that you don't know how to dress yourself. (I suppose its not surprising that so many lawyers/law students don't seem to understand this.)

Unless you have a serious rug coming up your neck, there is no significant chest hair problem. And in that case a crew neck is not your answer - it just makes it look like you're losing a battle to keep a monkey in your shirt.

I don't wear wife beaters, but, if Zac shows up at my doorstep wearing one, I won't complain.

What do guys like me do who are so fat we turn every v-neck into a u-neck?

- Jabba the Halverson

110. The not hot one is the one showing too much leg because if she were hot, there would be no such thing as "showing too much leg in the ofice".

112 - I gotta disagree. Women attorneys showing bra or going without provide a nice pick-me-up to my day.

119,

Hate to break it to you but there is. There are other female lawyers and older male partners who think so. Therefore, your first year doc review asshat opinion who likes the trampily dressed junior associate means nothing to me. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's not too complicated.

PS. I'm sure I'm much more attractive than your mothers old nightgown you jerk off with every night.

119,

Hate to break it to you but there is. There are other female lawyers and older male partners who think so. Therefore, your first year doc review asshat opinion who likes the trampily dressed junior associate means nothing to me. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's not too complicated.

PS. I'm sure I'm much more attractive than your mothers old nightgown you jerk off with every night.

119,

Hate to break it to you but there is. There are other female lawyers and older male partners who think so. Therefore, your first year doc review asshat opinion who likes the trampily dressed junior associate means nothing to me. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's not too complicated.

PS. I'm sure I'm much more attractive than your mothers old nightgown you jerk off with every night.

119,

Hate to break it to you but there is. There are other female lawyers and older male partners who think so. Therefore, your first year doc review asshat opinion who likes the trampily dressed junior associate means nothing to me. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's not too complicated.

PS. I'm sure I'm much more attractive than your mothers old nightgown you jerk off with every night.

119,

Hate to break it to you but there is. There are other female lawyers and older male partners who think so. Therefore, your first year doc review asshat opinion who likes the trampily dressed junior associate means nothing to me. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's not too complicated.

PS. I'm sure I'm much more attractive than your mothers old nightgown you jerk off with every night.

119,

Hate to break it to you but there is. There are other female lawyers and older male partners who think so. Therefore, your first year doc review asshat opinion who likes the trampily dressed junior associate means nothing to me. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's not too complicated.

PS. I'm sure I'm much more attractive than your mothers old nightgown you jerk off with every night.

119,

Hate to break it to you but there is. There are other female lawyers and older male partners who think so. Therefore, your first year doc review asshat opinion who likes the trampily dressed junior associate means nothing to me. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's not too complicated.

PS. I'm sure I'm much more attractive than your mothers old nightgown you jerk off with every night.

119,

Hate to break it to you but there is. There are other female lawyers and older male partners who think so. Therefore, your first year doc review asshat opinion who likes the trampily dressed junior associate means nothing to me. It's always better to be safe than sorry. It's not too complicated.

PS. I'm sure I'm much more attractive than your mothers old nightgown you jerk off with every night.

How many buttons are people leaving undone when they don't wear a tie?

I would think the correct answer would be "one, the very top button." But from people's concerns about showing chest hair, it sounds like people are leaving more than that open (or, they're really, really Robin-Williams-like hairy).

Am I correct in thinking that leaving more than one button undone is inappropriate for the office?

121-28, I think that's enough emphasis. We get that you're frustrated.

Dealbreaker: Better writing, better comments. I guess I chose the wrong profession.

People please - since the business causal movement hit lawfirms - having a crew undershirt is the preferred look. The problem with the v-neck, as other commentators have noted, is that it appears that you are not wearing an undershirt - which is seen as classless. While "the look" is broken with a crew shirt - it is the safest choice.

I don't wear undershirts. I agree the sight of nipplage is gross, but that's why I wear thick Brooks Brothers dress shirts.

Muscle shirts. HTH, thread closed
- WGWAG Master

I just put bandaids over my nipples.

@121: Exactly how much more attractive? Inquiring minds and all...

2:01/131 - we all did.

pic of 131: http://megatonmonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/fat-woman.jpg

Apparently 75 and 77 are crew-wearing tools, thank you for clarifying.

- 71 (who is currently practicing law in his air conditioned NYC office, without a crew t-shirt)

V necks are only appropriate if you are spray-tanned, have thick chest hair, greased black hair and live on long island or Jersey.

121-129 : possible "Spirit, The Magazine of Women in E-Discovery" reader?

What type of dress shirts are some of you wearing?? I wear a crew neck undershirt with an open collar dress shirt and it almost never shows the undershirt, if it does it is only about 1/2".

Evidently there are 25+% that disagree with me, but I think crew-necks showing underneath a button-down are incredibly bush league, and make the wearer look like someone who was never taught how to dress correctly.

Sometimes, for giggles, I try to convince people I have an albino fetish, particularly, that I'd like to slather one in chocolate nougat.

what is all this sturm-und-drang over 'armpit contact'? i suggest that those of you for whom this is a serious concern visit a doctor for some prescription deodorant or buy some bleach and apply liberally.

Wife-beater is the only way to go.

ew. chest hair in the office. ew.

The most vomit-inducing are fat and/or old and/or hairy-chested guys who leave too many buttons un-buttoned. If you are fat or old or hairy-chested or any combinations of these things, please button your shirt all the way up so that noone has to see your fat, old or hairy-chest. It's revolting. That means you, jelly roll! You make me want to hurl.

So let me get this straight. V neck for open collar and crew neck for buttoned collar & tie.

Do you people actually own BOTH crew neck AND V-neck???? I don't know anyone that owns both.

148, you can buy a 3 pack of each for like $8 at walmart. What the fuck are you doing with your biglaw money!

walmart undershirts = ttt. they are see through, get permanently stretched out and/or shrink after the first wash.

148, that is correct, V neck for open collar and crew neck for buttoned collar & tie.

I do in fact own both. I guess we don't know each other, or maybe you haven't asked your friends and acquaintances about what sort of undershirts they owned. (In which case I wonder what, pray tell, you DO discuss with them at dinner parties?)

150,

How big of a douchebag are you that you use the TTT when talking about undershirts. Seriously, you need to get laid.

142, that is a half-inch too much.

BTW people, the poll specifically addresses undershirt-wearing while dressed business-casual. So anyone voting for crew neck (or calling v-neck voters "idiots") because a crew neck works better with a tie has a reading comprehension problem.

If you want to look like a high-schooler, please go ahead and have your underwear show above your collar-line (this is like when people purposely wore boxers that hung down lower than their Umbros in the 1980s). If you want to look like an adult, a v-neck is the only choice to go with a not-fully-buttoned-up collared shirt.

Gentlemen at my preparatory academy never failed to select the correct undergarment for the situation at hand. By no means was it a conspicuous event.

Fraternity Lothario

love the 1980s Umbro reference. That brings back memories of camp and first kisses

Frankly, if you want to look good, you should have your dress shirts tailor made To work with the shape of your body. Choose suitable fabrics according to your propensity to perspire, and the acceptable level of maintenance requirements you are willing to endure.

But untrimmed hair anywhere is gross. Why would one shave a beard or get haircuts while letting other folicles run wild? The seventies are over, and trimming tools have been available for centuries. Use them to 'complete the package before, during, and after work.

love the 1980s Umbro reference. That brings back memories of camp and first kisses

And double frankly: Kudos to the 'Nair' do wells. The 'untrimmed hair anywhere", "this isn't the seventies" comment was intended for the honeys, too.

And double frankly: Kudos to the 'Nair' do wells. The 'untrimmed hair anywhere", "this isn't the seventies" comment was intended for the honeys, too.

157, that's Umbro, not h0m0.

Question: can anyone recommend a brand of v-neck, and separately, a brand of crew neck that is sufficiently long that it won't end up riding up and getting untucked from your pants (despite your shirt staying in place)?

I currently wear Polo stretch cotton crew necks and Calvin Klein v-necks, but neither is nearly as long as necessary. (I'm 6 feet, 165 pounds, so it's not like I have a gut or am freakishly tall.)

Wifebeater to hide your nipples.

To hell with pit-sweat.

Who wears a shirt more than once without laundering it? Who, I ask? WHO?

I would rather see a crisp clean top of a crew neck then a bunch of chest hair. If you're a hairy beast, crew looks better. Yes, its casual. But its supposed to be casual. If you step it up and wear sport coats with the open color, switch to the v-neck. Otherwise, who cares.

But given how much time we're spending on this issue, maybe everyone should buy crewnecks to wear under their suit on their next job interview.

I would rather see a crisp clean top of a crew neck then a bunch of chest hair. If you're a hairy beast, crew looks better. Yes, its casual. But its supposed to be casual. If you step it up and wear sport coats with the open color, switch to the v-neck. Otherwise, who cares.

But given how much time we're spending on this issue, maybe everyone should buy crewnecks to wear under their suit on their next job interview.

LMAO: http://www.erosblog.com/sex-blog-pictures/miss-piggie-shows-nipple.jpg

LMAO: http://www.erosblog.com/sex-blog-pictures/miss-piggie-shows-nipple.jpg

I like to put these all over my body just to freak people out by the outline they see under my shirt. Currently I have one on my shoulder and one located on my belly. Gotta stay amused at work. (Safe for work too).

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://collegecandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/04/nipples.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.collegecandy.com/tag/breasts/page/2/&h=373&w=300&sz=37&hl=en&start=142&sig2=TwrfKAHwciUypMaPAx0RRA&usg=__woDyp2SNAEXXbV7K8_-DRKvBH4M=&tbnid=PjOgLVw5mQRaIM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=98&ei=qli0SNWgB52MsQP7xOGiCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmale%2Bnipple%2Bthrough%2Bwork%2Bshirt%26start%3D126%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

Really, I've never understood the american obsession with wearing undershirts. No one else does. Well, maybe the Germans do, but they're the country that fashion forgot.

And antiperspirant goes a long way to keeping sweat stains at bay.

wear a good quality all cotton dress shirt and you don't need an undershirt at all. White or blue. (unless you're a big fat dude that stinks of cheese.)

169: I have many $300+ shirts that are so thin that they require an undershrit.

170:

Those shirts must look awesome with an undershirt.

168: Most european guys reek of body odor although some try to mask it with cologne. Maybe if they wore an undershirt you all would not stink so much.

HTH.

In the office you should wear a tie. At the beach, you should wear a tie. In bed, you should wear pajamas. Without the footsies. Or with, depending on who you are trying to impress.

$#!+ like this is why people hate lawyers.

Funny. The crew is winning in the vote but the V is winning in the comments. V all the way. Should be a shallow V where the collar tracks the line of the shirt with the top button open. Deep V necks are not appropriate.

Crew shirt is winning by far in the vote, which proves the commenters here don't know what they are talking about.

Yeah.

I notice that the number of respondents favoring crew shirts is roughly proportional to the number of douchebags I see strolling Midtown during lunch with their crew-necks poking out the top of their unbuttoned dress shirts.

You douches are hopeless. It's precisely that douchebaggery that spawned this very poll.

161:

I've got a similar build, and fruit of the looms or hanes work just fine. Just tuck'em into your undies and they won't ride up.

178: I really hope you are joking, douche.

B!tches LOVE my chest hair, both in the office and out.

http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/znaniBurt%20Reynolds.jpg

Whoa, totally not willing to tuck my undershirt into my underpants, 178.

172: I'm at my firm's Bratislava office, and the euro guys here neither wear undershirts nor stink. HTH.

in my office, the only guys who wear crewnecks are bigger guys whose shirts dont fit properly and cant button the second from the top button and guys who would make accountants look cool. everyone else seems to wear a vneck or no undershirt.

is that Zac Efron in the wifebeater pic above? I suspect that speaks volumes about Lat's opinion re wifebeater-wearers....no???

174--thanks for disguising your profanity. I hate having to read naughty words on the internet.

Not one mention of Mark Harmon in all of this?

I guess "douche" came up today on 177's Word-of-the-Day calendar ...

Also, 174? "$#!+ like this" is SO not why people hate lawyers. But using random symbols to spare us the profanity, but "cleverly" picking characters that LOOK like the letters so that you have, in fact, spelled "shit" for us? That may have a lot to do with why people hate you. Ask around.

What about Shweaty Balls...Maybe we need a survey on who goes commando underneath their gabardine trousers...yikes! In any case layering is for cold weather, It's 110 degrees in south Texas during the summer and the tie around my neck does not let my body cool by natural convection, so naturally Effff U! you're going to see my nips on either side of my tie! Nasty? Disgusting? Maybe to some...but at least avoid that pesky heatstroke. Wooooo, it's hot in here, I'm going to loosen my tie and let some of my manly pecs show...ahhhh much better:) Ok, ok, around fall and winter I go for the wifebeater or those Emporio Armani undershirts. Can you say snazzy? I can, and it only took me 3 tries to say it just right. This is the kind of stuff that makes or breaks associates up for partner :P

What about Shweaty Balls...Maybe we need a survey on who goes commando underneath their gabardine trousers...yikes! In any case layering is for cold weather, It's 110 degrees in south Texas during the summer and the tie around my neck does not let my body cool by natural convection, so naturally Effff U! you're going to see my nips on either side of my tie! Nasty? Disgusting? Maybe to some...but at least avoid that pesky heatstroke. Wooooo, it's hot in here, I'm going to loosen my tie and let some of my manly pecs show...ahhhh much better:) Ok, ok, around fall and winter I go for the wifebeater or those Emporio Armani undershirts. Can you say snazzy? I can, and it only took me 3 tries to say it just right. This is the kind of stuff that makes or breaks associates up for partner :P

but what does one wear under the undershirt?

190 - You go down a level, obviously. So: v-neck under a crewneck, beater under a v-neck, nothing under a beater.

Why don't you d*bags where a tie to work? Business casual looks like hell no matter the undershirt your wearing.

The survey results are so typical of the fashion-retarded dorks that infest this profession. A crewneck tee shirt is completely inappropriate, not only because wearing one amounts to literally showing your underwear, but because it looks dorkatronic as well.

These are the same sartorial schmucks who rock the crewneck under a polo shirt in the summer. It looks ridiculous. But hey, it's not as if it's going to matter all that much for these poorly-dressed douchebags, whose typically unappealing overall appearance already does them no favors with the ladies, with or without dorky crewneck tees.

Nice nips and sweaty pits, 193. I can see them through your dress shirts and "polo shirt in the summer."

194: You have a sick imagination and need to seek help with your nip/sweaty pits obsession.

The undershirt is perhaps a Midwest-East Coast cold weather necessity.

The most fucked up consecutive 48 hours I ever spent involved a ridiculous trade mark infringement case that Nabisco filed against my food distributor client for reselling ‘stale’ Gummy Bears purchased after a succession of resale’s that finally wound up in a Florida chain store.

Nabisco (who must have had an annual budget for infringement litigation that it was required to spend) noticed the deposition of the guy who bought the candy from Nabisco and resold it to my client, in Houghton Michigan in December.

Tragically, I had never heard of Houghton Michigan when I designed to appear.

I arrived in the midst of the greatest 24 hour snow fall in the prior 100 years, with a bone chilling -30 degrees.

Now, there are exactly 3 overnight accommodations in downtown Houghton—which are identical motels with not even a coffee shop in the lobby, and rooms that smell of formaldehyde.

I quickly concluded that the only logical plan was to decamp to one of the three identical bars across the main drag (which BTW is closed to parking at 10:00 pm for the snow plow), get as drunk as possible, and then return to my accommodation, and try to sleep.

I awoke to a clear day with a warm 20 degree below zero temperature, and being only 3 blocks from the firm hosting the depo decided to walk.

As I walked the 3 blocks over 8 feet of snow pack wearing Gucci loafers, suit, and overcoat—crunching along—I did fleetingly wish I had worn an undershirt--but mainly focused on what a dumb ass I was to be in bum fuck Michigan in the dead of winter walking over snow pack to a deposition about Gummy Bears.

I am soooo glad that in my state undershirts are optional, and even too warm on most days.

--CA guy.

I wear what is comfortable for me=no undershirt. I have a very hairy chest and hard nipples. I guess I will never be a success in life. I like how all of these law firm women complaint about nipples and hair when half of you wear the most inappropriate outfits. HTH.

Ummm.. great irrelevant story, 196

This is a ridiculous thread. The obvious answer is no undershirt. If you are wearing some kind of cheap ass dress shirt that people can see your freaking nipples through, get a better dress shirt. Leave only the top button unbuttoned, and the top button should be high enough so that only a little chest hair can peak through if any. If you do have any chest hair peekage at the top of the shirt, shave it off.

Undershirts should only be worn by tools and people with sweat gland problems like those Mexican dudes that have hair all over their bodies and look like werewolves. And yes, you should always launder your shirts after one wearing.

Most of the pro-undershirt crowd seems to consist of people who re-wear shirts without washing. Sick.

FYI, for those of you who are over 6' tall, Jockey makes "tall man" V necks that are extra long so that they don't come untucked and make you look unnecessarily fat. Word up!

American Apparel makes extra deep v-necks that allow you to undo the second button (so you don't look like such a corporate tool when you go out after work) without showing your V-neck. Excellent.

Now the only trouble is, the American Apparel v-necks are too short in the torso, but the Jockey Tall Man v-necks have too shallow of a V. Anyone know of a shirt that combines both amazing features?

Why don't we just put an end to this ridiculous business casual trend? Suits, people. Suits.

I definitely go crew all the way, open collar or not. I like the way it feels, and the way it looks. You can wear what you want, but I'm sticking to what I like for me.