How is this even relevant to me obtaining a legal job?

- Loyola 2 L

Most shocking part: Cadwalader making a jump in PRESTIGE from #53 last year to #39 this year ... player, please.

Fourth

CWT's ranking data no doubt pre-dates the recent massacre.

FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 2008 Rankings column for the Prestige chart is completely wrong. It may be the 2007 Rankings, but I don't think that's right either.

CWT jumped from 53 last year to 39 this year. Enough said about how meaningful "Vault" rankings are.

These numbers were obviously compiled before the recent round of CWT layoffs. I'd guess their data is at least a few months old, but it could be as old as January.

Just because you don't have a snowball's chance in hell at working for any of these firms is no reason to be bitter about it.

vault job fair 1 week from today.. any jobs there?

W&C as #20 on best to work for. Ha! Ha! Ask one associate there if they agree with that. They are all laughing at that, except that they don't have time to laugh.

Loyola 2L - this is relevant to you in that it lists firms to which you should not bother sending your resume.

#9=next on CWT's layoff list

The "survey" was done many many months ago - what are you expecting, up to the minute rankings???? Quite obviously the complainants (1, 8,9 etc.) are law students who dont get sent the Vault email to complete the survey like most associates are ...

14-Was survey sent after first round round of layoffs in January?

12,

I think I prefer to err on the side of optimism and send my resumes to those firms, regardless of Vault status, that can pay $160K because, unlike some people here, I do have massive school loans to satisfy.

- Loyola 2L

15. 14 here - no. late last year - takes a long time to compile

Its full of mistakes. Everything for the previous year column is wrong.

http://www.vault.com/nr/lawrankings.jsp?law2008=2&top100=2&ch_id=242

11

Try laughing as a sixth year associate in CWT.

Wow. DLA Piper has been quite the rocket lately. How can it be that in less than 5 years a firm jumps twenty-something spots? Hmmmm . . .

8--I think the 2008 scores have been shifted one spot--Milbank should have been 24, Ropes & Gray should have been 30, etc.

2- please stop trying to ressurect "Loyola 2L". The real one retired last year.

Bring back something else like SLJ or JT.

I'll get you started.

"I'm sick of all these mother f*cking law firms on these mother f*cking vault rankings"

-SLJ

I think they just screwed up last year's column .. look at the firm and then down one level to the next column, and it should correspond (e.g., Linklaters = 37, Milbank = 24, Ropes = 30 etc. etc. etc. all the way down).

Vault is crap. The American Lawyer gives much more meaningful data/information relevant to students:

RPL, PPP, Associate Satisfaction Survey.

Who cares which firms associates consider to be the most "prestigious???" Vault is worse than USNWR.

CWT 2008 rank was actually 26.

23 - That makes things make a lot more sense, Cadwalader falls, Quinn rises etc.

22

Watching movies and imitating Samuel L. Jackson doesn't add to the bottom line. Go back to your billables, son.

24 - RPL and AS might be good guides but PPP is just an imaginary number at this point, firms just decide what would be a good number and de-equitize accordingly. I'm supprised some firm (I'm looking at you Dechert) hasn't decided to just have one partner and PPP in the hundreds of millions.

22

To my surprise, I actually sort of miss JT.

23 is absolutely correct

6 = fail. Go home, biatch.

Bob Link obviously has an "in" with the Vault.

How else to explain CWT's jump?

27 = Mr. Miagi.

Who is this JT and pray, what is this TTT?

Such stupidity in this world - doesn't anyone double-check anything anymore?

35,

I only double check if my partner's going to take a look at it and/or someone is paying me to do it. Otherwise, STFU.

Double checking is TTT.

T14s don't make mistakes the first time.

Non-T14s, suck it.

I love it when associates say "my partner." He/she isn't "your partner" unless and until you actually make partner. But, I can appreciate positive thinking.

Most prestigious? I haven't seen a t.v. commercial for a single one of these firms. This is hogwash!

why have london firms risen? and i think i see all of them there i think except for CC - where is it?

cadwalader fell mightily, wow.

willkie also took a hit, which surprises me.

do we think national rankings matter as much as that specific top 20 NY firm list?

38: or unless you have sex with them. It's no big deal.

p.s. for the rest, the only acronym that matters here is WGWAG.

why have london firms risen? and i think i see all of them there i think except for CC - where is it?

Vault firm reviews are much like Yelp reviews of restaurants: They're inherently unreliable because too many softheaded neo-urbanites with bad taste, a disinclination toward discernment, and herd mentality create the ratings.

The regional rankings probably matter more than national rankings...especially as GC's tend to hire based on the particular lawyer and office that would be involved in a case or deal.

I think the 2008 rankings don't look right.

national rankings matter just like columbia is more well known on the west coast even though NY firms know NYU is a better school (or at least comperable calm down i'm not inciting a riot)-national name recognition.

"CORRECTION (10:40 AM): As some of you have noted in the comments, the prestige rankings for last year (2008) are off. Vault is sending us corrected rankings, which we will substitute in as soon as we get them. Thanks for pointing this out."

29 -

The JT posts were funny and creative, and a 'new' persona on the message boards. The author did not get the credit s/he deserved.

Accordingly:

JT loves Vault rankings. JT loves to see how everyone feels about their job because JT could walk into any one of those offices and be a top partner in one day. That's how smooth JT is...

I hate ATL noobs (i.e. people who don't know who SLJ and L2L are and what they mean). Your inexperience irks me and I hope you die.

CWT fell from 26 to 39

Aside from #5, i can't believe the utter stupidity of everyone commenting on this article.

Yes, CWT ascended in the rankings this year.

With approx. 19,000 respondents do you really believe Vault would be able to reflect a massive layoff that happened only 3 weeks ago?

But then again half of you are probably stuck performing due dilligence all day and hardly need critical thinking skills....

52 just called everyone who spotted CWT's obvious drop "utterly stupid."

CWT fells 13 spots.

Nice work, ATL readers / fact-checkers:

"UPDATE (10:47 AM): The prestige rankings for last year (2008) have been corrected. What you see in the table below is now accurate. Apologies, from us and from Vault, for the initial error."

It looks like Lat fixed the page and the 2008 rankings look right

MoFo number 11 in "best to work for"

I used to work in the NY office and its a sweatshop with some of the nastiest partners Ive ever met.

Sadwalader is being bent over the barrel by Cravath right now on 8th Ave. Its stopping traffic. The screams are horrifying.

52---Who is utterly stupid?

36, you're one of those incompetent morons who try to get by by being an aggressive a-hole. If you were to suddenly drop off the face of the planet, the world would suddenly start to function slightly better.

"My partner" - Just like any dog who thinks "my master". Whose bitch are you?

52, see 48. You give new meaning to TTT.

45, are you actually insinuating that these rankings (regional or national) in any way affect a GC's hiring decision? Trolling much?

Lat, you're such a tease. Please show us more!

How about some projections for the top tier? My guess:

1. WLRK
2. Cravath
3. STB
4. DPW
5. SASMF

Dewey & LeBoeuf at 48. That has got to bite.

Dewey & LeBoeuf at 48. That has got to bite.

check your facts: CWT was 26 last year (http://www.vault.com/nr/lawrankings.jsp?law2008=2&top100=2&ch_id=242).

How about some projections for the top tier? My guess:

1. WLRK
2. Cravath
3. STB
4. DPW
5. SASMF

At this pace Linklaters will surpass Wachtell in four years. You heard it here first folks.

WLRK
CSM
DPW
SASMF
SC
STB
LW
CG
WGM
KE

Linklaters to the top 10? I guess anything can happen. Maybe they can get there faster if they pick up the CWT lawyers...adding lawyers at an alarming pace seems to have worked for DLA

bah? Cadawalder didn't make it?

NNNNNeeeeeeerrrrrrrddddddsss!

Oh yeah, suck it Lat.

Cravath pwns WLRK. Its not even funny. You know it. They know it. Everyone knows. So not "Cravath Material."

i hadn't even noticed Dewey and Lebouef..... that is painful indeed. what were the individual dewey ballantine and lebouef rankings before the merger?

I am mutha f*cking sick of these mutha f*cking Cravath references on this muthaf*cking Blog.

S&C to 220k. Boomshakalaka.

wooo, links is up a lot. They are top 5 (arguably 1 or 2) in London. They'll be v5 soon enough here.

63:

Nice try, Simpson troll.

I'd guess:
WLRK
CSM
S&C
DPW
Skadden

What's up with splitting the numbers? Creating suspense? Trying to get us to come back again for the second half? We already check this site 20 times a day, stop screwing with us!!

The Dewey & LeBoeuf ranking is BS. Dewey Ballantine was 35? and LeBeouf Lamb was 52? I would have guessed that Dewey & LeBoeuf would be higher than 35.

CWT is still overranked. They have high profits per partners (most years) but for the most part they get people from second tier schools or people from top schools with mediocre grades.

#79, the question is whether you add prestige, as you seem to think or you average the prestige. It seems like Dewey's prestige was dilluted by LeBoeuf. Didn't LeBoeuf buy Dewey, despite Dewey's name coming first?

Cravath is so TTT. Like taking a shower with your dad...

CWT's "prestige" rank is not the same thing as "best place to work for" (obviously), so I don't see a 1:1 relationship between lay-offs, dastardly or otherwise, and prestige. Could the fact that CWT’s financial services practice group is contracting be one factor of many in their overall prestige? Yea, but a small part if any.

It is more like; do I really want to work for the ruthless people who might put a letter on my chair 6 months after they assure me there would be no more lay-offs, and 4 hours after I hear about the possibility for the first time in ATL?

Ugh. Law school is over. If you're a practicing attorney and still into your law firm's Vault ranking please kill yourself.

Cravath has been falling in prestige. The associates don't know it yet, but the clients do. The new mantra in legal circles is cost cutting. Top drawer clients have been moving work from Cravath et al. to lower-priced, but stil high quality, firms and saving a load of dough. Expect the trend to continue, particularly in the current economic climate. The myth that only a few dozen law firms or a few hundred lawyers at those firms could possibly do high quality work or win cases has been trashed long ago. That's the real story in the legal market today, but nobody's talking about it. Law students who make their employment choices based on a model that is rapidly becoming outdated (if not already) will find themselves looking for employment at firms who have best adapted to the new environment in just a few years. They would do themselves a favor by trying to identify the firms who recognize the new reality and have realigned their business to reflect that reality.

So, let's here it for SMALL LAW! If CWT can jump in prestige and still treat their people like crap, I'll gladly stay out of the stew and practice out of a storefront.

84-says everything that needs to be said about this meaningless thread

86 = idiot. Distinguish between "here" and "hear" please. That's why you are at "small law"

Cravath will eat you for breakfast - 85 -- you chum chugging chiseler.

Is Cravath the firm that has the TV ad with the guy wearing a cowboy hat? Man, what a douche. Although I really like Skadden's commercial using William Shatner.

dammit, now I'm not a v30 lawyer

*sobs quietly under desk*

wow, Milbank is on a downward spiral ....

I'm a litte surprised that Dees Nuts didn't make the list...

Layoffs have become prestigious. It's the new economy.

89 - Cravath can't eat anyone for breakfast because its a law firm, not a real person. Geez, get your facts straight...Ugh, you must be like a TTT grad or something. Its a surprise you can even wipe your own ass.

95 - I can, but I don't. That's what my T14 associates are for.

Tell your mom I said hello.

89

I just saw Cravath's new full page ad in the yellow pages. Suffice it to say that its awesome.

85: There are many, many clients out there that continue to hire "name" firms for big litigation and big transactions because they know they will never get second-guessed by their boards for hiring a name. That won't go away any time soon.

But you are right that some clients are realizing that "name" firm and name firm rates aren't necessarily the best. Or certainly not the most efficient or cost effective.

Thelen Brown Raysman and Seyfarth to top 15!!

89 - Ah I recognize you. Yours must be the browneye with all the hemorrhoids. I will make sure to use the single ply next time, hope they don't bleed too much.

- 95, Ass-wiping T14 associate.

PS. My mom said hey, said she recognized the back of your head.

I call BS! Weil ranked higher than Latham as best place to work! gimme a break.

-No i dont work at Latham, wish i did.

44 -- Agreed. I see it as a way for T14 grads to justify their poor career choice.

100,

You wipe someone else's chocolate starfish?

Eww.

You are truly below TTT.

85, you are right to a certain extent. Why pay Cravath rates to do, say, a garden variety real estate deal? Doesn't make any sense. Even assuming the best lawyers are at the top of the food chain firm-wise (a dubious assumption), there are a finite number of transactions/cases that really require those skills and manpower. The rest of the clients pretend or honestly think they are in that league. So they pay for their vanity in spades when the engage a top 10 firm. I really think it is a subconscious reaction. Or there is a personal relationship there that governs, even though it is clear the law firm has outgrown the client.

High quality lawyers are everywhere now because of a fluid lateral market. Alot of awesomely talented people come out of the V10 and wind up practicing at much lower profile shops. Does that mean their skills suddenly erode? Absolutely not. GC's and other consumers are catching on to this. You are going to see more concentration at the top tier of firms as they shed unprofitable practice areas. The true full service shops will be a wrung or two down the ladder.

SHOOK, HARDY & BACON as #12 for Best Firms for Work for??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a LONG time.

Sincerely,
Once a former Shook atty

What I love most about ATL is that almost every commenter is a jackass.

I feel right at home.

when is part 2 being posted?

I love the jackasses who so dearly want to be "FIRST" and then end up at No, 6. Get a real life tool(s).

This is why AMLaw is a much better ranking system.

For those that don't understand where Linklaters, Allen + Overy and Clifford Chance don't fit into the rest of the world: it's time to take a cup of Global 101. These 3 are the world's leading firms. In five years, the top 10 in the US is going to include each of these three names in the list. US firms are far, far behind in their effort to match the Magic Circle's global scope or prominence.

Fried Frank wipes Cravath's ass. Always has. Always will.

Allen & Overy is having problems, but it's far better than the American based firms.

If given the chance, I'd work for Linklaters and live in London.

F New York.

Cravath wipes Wachtell's ass. Always has. Always will.

if it wasn't obvious already, law students should be aware that these overall prestige rankings are only relevant in terms of very broad tiers. a firm's reputation within your individual practice area is much more relevant and so is its reputation within your particular city. in other words, you should not obsess over these rankings going into OCI.

Why is there so much ass to wipe on this blog?

Who would have thought law firms and their employees are so obsessed about ass? Could it be that they stink of ass? Or they subconsciously believe that their work product is the excretion of ass?

Focus on the billables, son. Addressing the ass mystery isn't going to pay the firm's bills.

#80 has his priorities straight. Who cares about money, of all things, when a T14 grads' sense of exclusive entitlement is on the line? And, what is the world coming to when associates from from TTT schools can help turn a profit?? This is truly terrible.

Where is AIPAC?

Guys at my high school used to rank firms all the time! It was no big deal.

Guys at my high school used to hate it when people messed up "Guys at my highschool" all the time. It was no big deal.

ugh, agreed 120. Who are these people that try to get in on the joke, but can't execute properly. Go away tools. Leave it to those who know how to knock off FS, like prep-school lothario. Speaking of which, where is he today?

cue PSL in 3... 2... 1...

81 - LeBoeuf didn't buy Dewey. Getting LLGM's Chairman to run the collective firm post-merger was one of the attractions of the deal for Dewey, as DB didn't have anyone who could/would run a global firm of 1400 attorneys. The top earning US partners at D&L are mostly DB guys.

Young gentlemen at my preparatory academy used to create social-status-based balloon-knot-cleansing sequences quite frequently. It did not cause much ado.

Prep School Lothario

love how dorsey makes the list yearly. Hillarious.

103 - Complimentary ass-wiping is but one of the many services we are proud to offer here at Cravath. While the sum of your accomplishments has been to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth, you deserved that spoon, by God. And we're proud to feed you that sense of entitlement until even belittling supposed TTT grads on internet blogs fails to numb that empty sould of yours...

103 - Complimentary ass-wiping is but one of the many services we are proud to offer here at Cravath. While the sum of your accomplishments has been to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth, you deserved that spoon, by God. And we're proud to feed you that sense of entitlement until even belittling supposed TTT grads on internet blogs fails to numb that empty soul of yours...

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER ITO NCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER ITO NCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER ITO NCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER ITO NCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER ITO NCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER ITO NCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER ITO NCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER ITO NCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER TO INCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER TO INCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER TO INCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE

WHERE IS PART 2? THIS IS NOT A WAY TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO READERS; BY PROMISING TO POST SOMETHING AND THEN DELAYING IT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER TO INCREASE PAGE VIEWS BY HAVING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S THERE