SO True.

There are a ridiculous number of errors in the rankings (like where the firms are located). When did Irell move to Palo Alto?

first to say the prestige rankings will tell you nothing about the quality of your work experience

Guys in my legal blog used to link to subscription-only sites all the time. It was no big deal.

C'mon. Can't we actually SEE the lists?

Can someone with a subscription copy & paste. Thx

My firm moved down. :( :( :(.

Not sure how Latham made top 20 with regard to quality of life. I can't stand my life since joining Latham. All I do is work. Truly depressing.

Yup, there are some pages where NONE of the cities are correct. Others are hit or miss.

I like the idea of Cleary being based in Los Angeles.

How lame to link to a pay site. Does ATL get a commission?

I like the idea of Cleary being based in Los Angeles.

Alot of the rankings are available for free on ATL:

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/08/vault_law_firm_rankings_2009_2.php

Unreal amount of errors and misinformation in this year's rankings. Vault is not what it once was. The message boards on the firm profiles used to be really active.
Either way, of all the law-related rankings out there, Vault is the least meaningful.

Seyfarth Shaw at 98? Bullshit. With over 1000 lawyers, we should be top 50.

These rankings are completely absurd. Large national firms with a presence in multiple cities, even if not especially prestigious, are better known, and thus outrank very prestigious firms with only a couple of offices (e.g. Irell and Munger). It would be more relevant to see rankings by lawyers within a city.

Latham's prestige score is a 7.754, and Cleary's is a 7.784... so how did Latham get ranked ahead of Cleary?

15 - the number of attorneys should not impact the prestige of a firm. Get a clue.

SS = TTT

Can we get a posting of the NY rankings?

Can anyone post socal rankings please?

When did Clifford Chance move its HQ from London to LA?

What happened to Simpson Thacher? Damn. Thats just brutal.

how can it be that every year covington and kirkland flip-flop?

First!!

National rankings are really dumb and based, almost entirely, on PPP. So yeah, if you want to buy a lottery ticket for the chance to make a shitload of money, go to a large NYC law firm. But there are many, many smaller firms more selective (i.e., prestigious?) in its hiring than several of the V20 firms.

The main office of each firm is actually listed with the firm immediately below.

25,

Not so. Look at firms like Cahill and Dechert, with great PPP and crappy rankings.

would anyone mind posting the Vault lists (not the one previously published by ATL)? Vault is blocked at work.

27 - I agree with you. Schulte, which earned PPP of 2.4 million is ranked only 80.

27/25 and quinn emanuel

22 - STB is the same place they've been for the last few years?

The Ass of Cravath shall be wiped by all.

wtf? http://www.vault.com/pdf-ads/375/9104.pdf

32: I posted it earlier on a different thread, and I'll post it again here--Cravath really needs to find a better outlet for its homo-erotic fantasies, not to mention that it should get a better fetish.

32: I posted it earlier on a different thread, and I'll post it again here--Cravath really needs to find a better outlet for its homo-erotic fantasies, not to mention that it should get a better fetish.

STB got smoked. That can't feel good.

5, 6, 11 - If you just click ANY LINK OTHER THAN THE FIRST ONE it's free for all to view.

36 , you're a douche.

what makes dickstein so diverse? 95% joos.

32 -- I truly feel sorry for you. I really do. One should not speak of such a prestigious office with so little respect.

Judge Haverson's BO shall be smelled by all.

can someone finally please tell me why diversity is so "important"?

They got rid of the "Tax" practice area rankings!

-Tax Geek.

Does somebody want to even TRY to give a legitimate explanation as to why Shook, Hardy & Bacon is #12 on the Best Firms to Work for?

It's a TTT firm at best, just because their ignorant midwestern associates are happy with being underpaid and more non-equity than equity partners doesn't make it #12 on the best firms to work for list, because I doubt ANYONE here would look at Shook and think "Well, gee, that sounds like a swell place to work!"

36 = Judge Halverson's douche.

where is Pennie Edmonds?

tax practice area rankings were pretty useless anyway. Check out chambers.

Aww shucks ... I'm a sure am proud to work at Shook!

40, I feel sorry for you, seriously "One should not speak of such a prestigious office with so little respect." Cravath is just a law firm that needs its ass wiped.

43/47 - there is no need for Tax practice rankings. Tax lawyers know PWC WNT is tops. Basically, any of the Washington Nat'l Tax practices. E&Y TAZ group is also up there.

smaller firms like munger, boies, and irrell should be ranked way higher.

49 -- Be careful. Cravath is everywhere.

Skadden - Chicago to #2, jumping Sidley.

I stepped in some Munger once. Gross.

It also ranks Sidley as #2 in Chicago. Add it to the list of errors.

53 - They are both listed as #2

53 - They are both listed as #2

The Ass of Cravath shall rain terror upon all ye nay sayers!

When did Vault steal Bingham McCutchen's "A"? http://www.bingham.com/

I guess that little connector thingy in the middle is vestigal.

To 54: I walk barefoot over some Munger once, unintentionally.

I wonder if WSGR's big drop is related to them moving their headquarters to Chicago. Oh wait, they don't even have a Chicago office. Neither does Pillsbury. WTF are the Vault guys doing? Same thing with Munger.

Munger Munger Chicken Dunger!

Jones Day is a NY firm now? Wow. I'm sure the folks in the home office in Cleveland and the managing partner in D.C. will be interested to hear that.

Given all the mistakes for the firm locations I wasn't surprised to see that the list titled "Associate Prestige Rankings" just led to a picture of a bag of cheetos and a lava lamp animation.

Cravass Cravass Munger and Choad.

I forgot, all "smart" people and "great" firms reside on the coasts. We ain't got no education in the midwest.

Pompous a**.

They can't even get it right in their blurbs. Under partner prestige they write:
On the prestige front, associates and partners stayed pretty close to last year's picks. Once again, partners place bigwig Cravath, Swaine & Moore in the first-place spot, while associates continue to root for the smaller but fierce Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz. Whereas silver medals go to the opposing group's first pick (an even swap), both partners and associates round out their top three, yet again, with the exalted Sullivan & Cromwell.

Their chart, however, shows Davis Polk third.

NNNNNNEEEEERRRRRRRDDDDDDDDSSSSS!!!!

Whoever is in charge of these rankings over at Vault should be fired. Utterly incompetent.

PH headquartered in Chicago? it's their newest and smallest office...

"Does somebody want to even TRY to give a legitimate explanation as to why Shook, Hardy & Bacon is #12 on the Best Firms to Work for?

It's a TTT firm at best, just because their ignorant midwestern associates are happy with being underpaid and more non-equity than equity partners doesn't make it #12 on the best firms to work for list, because I doubt ANYONE here would look at Shook and think "Well, gee, that sounds like a swell place to work!""

I think you summed it up accurately, that's why nobody is responding. Either that or they've never heard of this TTT.

profits per partner shouldnt be a significant part of any prestige ranking. revenue per lawyer makes more sense. there is nothing prestigious about having six associates for every partner (schulte).

Im not a subscriber and I could see the rankings.

Can someone list the NY rankings for the top 10 firms.

46: Penne Edmunds dissolved a while back. I thnk they mostly went to Jones Day + one other place I dont remember.

72 -- except if you are the partner. I've been at a top firm for a number of years now, and increasingly believe that law students are mistaken in dismissing the importance PPPs. One wonders why Munger, for instance, with all its awesome minds, has such low profitability in relation to firms with suposedly less awesome minds. Ultimately low profits means the successful partners have a good reason go elsewhere. So, PPPs can matter hugely to an associate's well-being. Imo, PPPs are the most important factor, other than associate pay, in picking a firm.

1. I think Vault recycled some comments from last year.

2. I agree with 76 about PPP.

3. Why do people still care about Vault? Chambers and AmLaw has all the information that I really care about as a lawyer.

76 - the problem w/ PPP is that it can easily be gamed through multi-tier partnerships and insane parter to associate ratios (ie cadwalader). RPL is far more reliable metric.

Also, practice areas aren't created the same w/ regard to profitability, ie. a top M&A lawyer will earn more than a top labor/employment lawyer. This has nothing to do w/ the quality of the lawyer; it's just the nature of the field.

59- Vault has been using that "A" for years. Bingham only stole it in the last year or so.

vault is doodie. long live chambers!!!

These rankings are highly inaccurate. To name a few examples:

Why isn't Wiley Rein in the top fifty?

Why wasn't Quinn ranked this highly a few years ago? It was quite good then as well. And does anyone believe that CWT is better than Quinn?

How does Cleary go from not ranked to number 1 for best places to work? That category is incredibly arbitrary. Cleary, is one of the better sweatshops to work at but hardly a great lifesyle firm.

Also, how is Thatcher "everyone is leaving" Profitt ranked in the top 100?

The vault ranking is ridiculous.

Yeay! The RANKINGS!!!

Now I have something to jerk-off to during the 10% of my waking life that I'm not in my office sucking some partner's dick!

I can't wait to justify my miserable existence by seeing how great my firm is! That makes me special and compensates for all of my insecurities!

Sure, I have no fuckin life and trying to be the first commenter on an ATL thread is about exciting as it gets.

And who cares that the world as we know it is changing so fast that it'll be unrecognizable in a decade, as I whore myself to a firm knowing that I'll never have my 20's and 30's back. I went to fuckin Harvard bitches!

You know you took a wrong turn somewhere when you go to look for your firm in the prestige rankings and you start at the end and work your way forward.

I wonder how the lawyers who got fired from McKee Nelson feel about the firm being ranked #2 of best firms to work for.

I can't believe it, I paid to see all the rankings and my firm didn't show up in one single category. TAnd I'm pissed because the career services center at Appalachian Law told me Mesothelioma Lawyers LLC was an incredible firm. Either Career Services lied or Vault sucks?

These surveys are severely lagged.

Weren't the underlying surveys sent out last summer/fall? Anyone know?

Skadden-Chi tied for #2 in Chicago? That's absurd.

It is of course a top global firm; it's always involved in the big deals; and it pays lock-step NY bonuses to its Chi associates. But equal in prestige to Sidley in Chi and superior to MB, W&S or J&B (again, in Chi) it is not.

anyone care to post (1) IP specialty rankings, (2) selectivity rankings

I didn't realize that 'prestigious,' actually meant full of total douches willing to work 23 hours a day limit find extra ways stuff the overly-full pockets of their clients' pockets. Lame.

76 -- Your theory that PPP is correlated with associate satisfaction could be easily empirically tested.

Just glancing at the amlaw midlevel associates' survey, however, I don't believe it pans out. The happiest associates aren't at the firms with the highest PPP. In fact, it may be the exact opposite. How else are the partners lining their pockets except through cracking the whip? And by having extremely high leverage, which means that associates aren't getting as much substantive work earlier on?

How does Venable keep rising on this thing? That firm is the town joke!!

76,

I disagree. For a law student prestige should be more important than PPP. Law students are 15 years away from equity partner status. And the vast overwhelming majority won't make equity partner at the firm they join straight out of law school.

However, the vast overwhelming majority will most likely leave their first firm within 5 years. When they do, the two factors that will have the most impact on their job search will be the demand for their practice area and the prestige of their firm (not their firm's PPP).

Don't know if anyone's still on this thread. I'm about to start OCIs and I am interested in firms with strong appellate practices (although not necessarily a separate practice group), but I haven't found a whole lot of good intel in my research. Any thoughts on some of these (all D.C. offices)?

Covington & Burling
Jones Day
Kirkland & Ellis
Latham & Watkins
O'Melveny & Myers
Sidley Austin
Wiley Rein
Williams & Connolly
WilmerHale

for years ppl were saying shearman was a sinking ship. it has officially sunk, and boy am i glad i jumped ship.

response to 93, (if you actually have the credentials to work at a top appellate lit shop, I'm impressed, usually requires feeder clerkship)

see Chambers: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/usa/resultseditorial.aspx?cid=223&pid=84&solbar=1&grouptype=2

Pasting their list:
Farr & Taranto
Gibson
Jenner
Jones Day
Latham
Mayer
OMM
Robbins, Russell
Sidley
Wilmer

No idea why Munger and Irell, two firms severely underrated by Vault, got dropped further this year.

did vault release NY rankings this yr? anyone have the top 20 NY firms?