What's Going on at Shearman & Sterling?
Lately we've been hearing various rumors about Shearman & Sterling. Some appear to be true, and some not.
Here are the rumors, followed by the firm's responses, in blockquotes.
1. Have start dates for incoming first-year associates been pushed back?
Start dates for incoming first-year associates for fall 2008 are October 6, 20, 27 and November 3.
We don't know what the 2007 start dates were (and the firm didn't provide them), but we're guessing they were earlier. But the 2008 start dates are not particularly late. Compare them to these firms' postponed start dates.
2. Have there been any layoffs at the firm, of lawyers or staff?
There have been no lay-offs at Shearman & Sterling, of either attorneys or administrative staff.
This makes sense to us. Shearman did layoffs back in the early 2000s, which it later came to regret, when memories of the layoffs harmed the firm's recruiting efforts once the economy came roaring back. So, having learned their lesson, we'd be surprised to see mass layoffs from Shearman now.
(But we wouldn't be surprised if there have been some performance-related dismissals lately, especially on the corporate side.)
3. Did the firm make offers to all of its summer associates?
(We had previously heard, through the grapevine, that the firm had 135 summer associates and made offers to all of them.)
This summer we had 144 summer associates. There were four summer associates whose academic commitments precluded their joining the firm in fall 2009. We made entry-level offers to all but one of the summer associates available to join the firm.
Based on the high percentage of offers to summers, north of 99 percent, it seems that Shearman is doing just fine these days. But we are curious about that one SA who got no-offered.
Might there be a juicy but undiscovered summer associate scandal? Perhaps a new and improved version of the Shearman & Slur-Man? If you have info, feel free to email us.
(If it's garden-variety incompetence, that's of little interest to us. But if there's an entertaining or salacious tale, we'd like to hear about it. Thanks.)
Earlier: X-Summers: Shearman & Slur-Man
(114) Comments
One guy didn't get an offer? Big deal. There's usually more than one dud in every (much smaller) class. But probably not enough to "out" him. Perhaps he just showed a profound lack of maturity, good sense, work ethic, table manners, etc.
Probably not worth a witchhunt.
Learn their lesson? Please. You paper-churning monkey associates have, and always will be, more disposable than a left over piece of toilet paper. I am surprised that it took this long for corporate America to finally realize that you are all obscenely overpriced.
3:21 = the no-offered Shearman summer
Slow news day, eh?
3:27 - Yes. It's the middle of August.
How about a discussion of the most prestigious university. I begin: Harvard.
Discussion over.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
I'm willing to bet the one SA let go was from UVA or U Mich. or another state school. They should have known better.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
This is the best you've got, Lat? Come on. Really pathetic. I guess it's time to go get a real job, eh?
6: No Harvard PhD and no SCOTUS clerkship = still just a douche.
9: Although a Phd from Harvard is prestigious, it is not needed to be well versed in law and business.
SCOTUS? Why? I plan to conquer business and law and not be a professor, work for the government, or practice constitutional law/appeals.
You do not hide your envy well.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
The only advantage that Harvard graduates have is that an abundance of doors are open to them. Once employers discover that they don't know anything, those doors close and they're canned. And then the process repeats.
Where's the SJD?
11 - Those sound more like Yale graduates.
11 = Cornell Grad. Ha!
(or is it a state school?)
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Harvard @ 10: Starting to get defensive now? You trying to explain away the lack of PhD and SCOTUS is like a Columbia grad saying #4 is good enough for law school. And you're still a douche.
12: Although presigious, the SJD is entirely uselss less one wants to be a legal scholar.
Couldn't you just have titled the post "Nothing's Going on at Shearman & Sterling," so we could have known to skip it?
Harvard dude: I bow down to your superiority! You are truly the shit! But with that attitude, how much do you usually pay to get laid?
15: I was educating inferior minds. You reek of envy.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Gentlemen at my preparatory academy frequently found themselves in a mote-sized cadre of laughingstocks shunned by indiscriminate mercantile interests hiring for over-remunerated scrivener positions. It was not a conspicuous event.
~ Fraternity Lothario
18: I pay nothing other than bottles for the table, which I do regardless of women. Please don't beat yourself up about going to a T14 school. AMlaw 100 isn't that bad (of course I don't know personally).
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Harvard - What's to envy? The way you overcompensate for your lack of stones, or the way you exemplify the level of refinement you supposedly learned up in Cambridge?
The only difference between you and me Harvard?
250K in debt that you have and I don't.
- Good liberal arts colllege; top 80 law school; v20 law firm
22: You envy my 3 elite Harvard degrees to your zero elite Harvard degrees.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Harvard was my safety school.
Love,
Oxford
harvard acronymer = some mongoloid race brought in by affirmative action. New money = no money.
Oh my God people, the Harvard guy is obviously joking! It's turning into a very funny joke because someone is taking him seriously.
23: My elite degrees were paid for. Your credentials are laughable.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
6/7/10/14/19/21/24 - Assuming you're all the same poster, don't you have some billable work you should be doing? Or are you too busy attempting to self-fellate yourself in celebration of your sheer superiority to the rest of the working world?
26: No, I despise such.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
26: No, I despise such.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
27: My elite degrees and documented intecllect are no joke.
27: My elite degrees and documented intecllect are no joke.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
27: The joke is on you my friend. My manhood is 12 inches....AROUND.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
29: I am too elite to stoop to your level. You reek of envy.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Maybe having to spend all those winters up in Boston permanently froze Harvard dude's ability to act like a normal human being.
34 = Envious imposter.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
I've started at S&S in 2004 on October 31; those are the usual starting dates.
Harvard guy to EIC!
Harvard, what's it like to have horrible working hours, no family time and too much money?
Hofstra JD, CUNY BA
39: Thank you for the support and recognizing my superior demonstrated intellect. I have asked Mr. David Lat to send me the EIC offer package, as clearly the other candidates are inferior.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
I am the man!!!!
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Everyone relax. Mr. Harvard was obviously just inspired by the Onion to take internet commenting to a new level of stupidity.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/local_idiot_to_post_comment_on
I' am above the onion; and I am above everythings!
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Im not sure why eveyrone with lesser degrees than I have so much enrage against me. I am simpily a very very, prestigous individual person. Harvard is always being the best collage ever!
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
25 -- Oxford was my safety school.
Love, Xenu Graduate '05
PS -- We both know you just went to UVA and now are overcompensating a wee bit. Yup.
42,44,45 = Imposters. I know you envy me, but please...
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
all of the above posters are trolls
it's
Harvard AB NOT Harvard BA
Everyone relax. Mr. Harvard was obviously just inspired by the Onion to take internet commenting to a new level of stupidity.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/local_idiot_to_post_comment_on
46: ever hear of sarcasm. Much like Harvard guy?
42, 44, 45, 47 ---
The first three of you were bad imposters. 47 is merely trying to act prestigious, which is sad and pathetic. 47 - to accuse other imposters simply stinks of envy.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
47, 15 -- imposters.
Never again will a Harvard graduate starve in a world of plenty.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Wow, 3 Harvard degrees and his vocabulary is limited to the single word "envy"? I coulda pulled a Good Will Hunting and just went to the public library.
47 is an imposter. I, 51, am the true Harvard guy.
I use "envy" so much because so many are envious.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
lol @ 23: "top 80 law school"
20: well done.
Bingham Sterling
i win
Yale BA, Yale JD, Wharton MBA
and I wear brioni
Hahahaha I can't believe Harvard dude is still trolling after being called out as a poser on the Georgia thread and by #48 on this thread.
59, sorry, wrong answer. I merely call it a "BA" so that mere mortals as yourself are not confused.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA
Correction: K&L Gates' start date of October 20 is not "particularly late" either. As a matter of fact, it is the same as one of Shearman's start dates, and not even the latest. C'mon, Lat. There are definitely firms out there with later start dates, didn't some delay until '09?
I'm enjoying the Harvard meme.
UVA pwns all. Behold the new reign. All ye shall bear the fruits of ill gotten booty in yer loins.
too bad shearman wasn't more forthcoming about the fact that at least a couple of the offers they gave were cold as ice...
The Harvard meme is excellent. More!
6 - you ain't got NOTHING on me.
-Harvard: BA, JD, MBA, PhD (Economics)
lat, not only did shearman give numerous cold offers, ive heard from numerous people that their start date for the class of 2009 is no earlier than november 30th. Whatever bs the firm told you about everything going well there is exactly that. BS. and ps. their office is ugly
is UPENN a state school?
68 - Yes. The UPenn State Nittany Lions. Everyone knows that.
blog has jumped the shark
Shearman would be a great candidate to merge with Thelen.
Shearman Thelen seriously makes a lot of sense.
The one guy was probably blackballed by a partner who s/he made the grave mistake of pissing off...they did that to a friend of mine four years ago.
Anybody care to explain why Jones Day is a party in a suit?
Jones Day v. BlockShopper.com et al
Plaintiff: Jones Day
Defendant: BlockShopper.com, Brian Timpone and Edward Weinhaus
Case Number: 1:2008cv04572
Filed: August 12, 2008
Court: Illinois Northern District Court
Harvard to TTT!!! And we come full circle. Nice.
i know the guy who didn't get an offer. real fun and bright. somehwat lazy but you're a summer for the love of god. in any event, his mistake was that he decided to upperdeck a toilet at a partner's house during a group dinner. the toilet was refilling with chocolate water for a a week.
Harvard BA, JD, and MBA seems to have a good bit of time to chitchat during the work day. Think he works to his level or is he is so full of himself that he simply can't be bothered to do any productive work. Probably teaches at some third tier school in Ohio. That's prestige.
67 - YEAH, and I heard that Shearman is setting the start date for the class of 2015 in DECEMBER. What a shitty firm.
(Or: You moron, firms don't set start dates *a year in advance* - no one knows what their needs will be in FALL 2009. You Shearman trolls are getting pretty fucking pathetic and silly these days.)
There is a good summer associate story involving drinking problems, dial cars, refusing to come to work, and just plain being an asshole. Oh and the summer was basically from a state school--NYU.
There is a good summer associate story involving drinking problems, dial cars, refusing to come to work, and just plain being an asshole. Oh and the summer was basically from a state school--NYU.
48 is correct. Harvard BA, JD, MBA is a poser.
So, nothing worth a blog post is going on at Shearman.
SHEARMAN'S 2009 CLASS STARTS NOVEMBER 30TH!!! DON'T ASK ABOUT 2008 CLASS, BUT THE 2009 CLASS WHO JUST GOT THEIR OFFER LETTERS. SHEARMAN SHOULD BE CAREFUL - A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE RE-INTERVIEWING, ALTHOUGH GIVEN THEIR BIG CLASS, THAT MIGHT BE THEIR AIM.
77 you are a fucking idiot. Of course the class of 2009 will know what time they start. Its on their fucking offer letters. you probably wouldnt know that because you've never received one. Asshole.
i am a shearman SA and can confirm that offer letters say our start date will be "no earlier than 11/30/09." have any other firms done something similar?
I heard the story about the NYU Shearman Summer who showed up for work drunk, used car services within Manhattan (which was forbidden), and refused to work on July 4th (he was in the Dusseldorf office) because "July 4th is an American holiday."
That said, why are people complaining that this post is pointless? When Shearman does right by its people, this is not newsworthy, but when it screws its people, it is? Sigh. You know, there were some great car pile-ups on the LIE last month. Decapitated babies and all. Perhaps ATL readers would like some pictures.
its pointless because lat just sucked up all of their lies.
its pointless because lat just sucked up all of their lies.
its pointless because lat just sucked up all of their lies. Sack up and ask them about the class of '09 and cold offers. then you'll give us something decent to read about
Good call 71. A Shearman and Thelen merger would be mutually beneficial. Shearman could get a stronger presence on the West Coast, while Thelen guys benefit by joining Shearman NY. Also all of Thelen benefits as they get paid NY market and lockstep bonuses in all US domestic offices. Everybody wins.
84- that sucks. But on the upside, take the free time to go traveling. A few years down the line, you won't regret it. Also, looking for a place in NY - if you don't have one - will be much easier in November than in August.
84 forgot to mention that with the firm has insulted their offerees by only allowing a $7,000 salary advance. It will be impossible to travel, let alone live in New York city on such little money especially when most firms offer 10k. I'm glad I rejected their callback. The firm went from 12-19 in 2 years on the vault guide. I'll be surprised if they don't end up mid 50s by the time its all said and done.
You know...without fail, all the NYU summers at my firm were douchy too...
nyu and shearman= third tier trash.
Lat ask them the questions about the cold offers and the late start date.. and the pitiful allowance. I'm a 1L and they are on my oci list. I need to know if i should get out. suggestions?
1) A cold offer is an offer. If you don't like getting one, maybe you should have done your work and showed that you had minimal social skills. Be happy that you got a cold offer, considering that most jobs would fire you on the spot for incompetence.
2) Since when is 7k a small amount of change as an ADVANCE on your salary?
3) I have not heard anything about the late start date -- that rumor sounds bogus to me.
1) A cold offer is an offer. If you don't like getting one, maybe you should have done your work and showed that you had minimal social skills. Be happy that you got a cold offer, considering that most jobs would fire you on the spot for incompetence.
2) Since when is 7k a small amount of change as an ADVANCE on your salary?
3) I have not heard anything about the late start date -- that rumor sounds bogus to me.
96 you obviously don't read or know how to post. 84 is a summer that confirmed the late start date. 7k is really small when you are asking your incoming class to wait 6 months before they can actually start. I know i was offered 10k from my firm to start in early october. Sounds like disgruntled recruiting staff trying to save the name of a firm going down the tubes
94. get out now.
Are other firms that had large summer classes doing this? Skadden? Cravath?
not from the sounds of it..
Shearman is doing stealth layoffs. Typical process. Good reviews and then bad review in which they say the situation is not reparable and the associate should look for a new job. They are doing it in waves to avert the bad optics. The word is that the PPP is projected to be down $500k so it makes sense. The pushed back start dates reflect the same backdoor method of reducing/pushing people out.
i agree with 97 that 96 sounds like a sady recruiting person. I worked at Shearman this Summer and I have an offer, and the start date is 11/30 and the advance is 7K...given the late start date and what other firms are doing 7K is BS...needless to say, my resume is already out on the market...and they have been shady with the summers all along. i personally know at least 5 people w ho got cold offers. it has nothing to do with how they work - they hired more people than they needed and now they are paying for it...
i agree with 97 that 96 sounds like a sady recruiting person. I worked at Shearman this Summer and I have an offer, and the start date is 11/30 and the advance is 7K...given the late start date and what other firms are doing 7K is BS...needless to say, my resume is already out on the market...and they have been shady with the summers all along. i personally know at least 5 people w ho got cold offers. it has nothing to do with how they work - they hired more people than they needed and now they are paying for it...
i agree with 97 that 96 sounds like a sady recruiting person. I worked at Shearman this Summer and I have an offer, and the start date is 11/30 and the advance is 7K...given the late start date and what other firms are doing 7K is BS...needless to say, my resume is already out on the market...and they have been shady with the summers all along. i personally know at least 5 people w ho got cold offers. it has nothing to do with how they work - they hired more people than they needed and now they are paying for it...
the firm was a sinking ship. its clear that it has sunk.
you figure a firm like that might have learned a lesson or two about bad pr after their last disaster..
in this market it'd be wise to avoid them
Word on the street (well, at a T14 law school's OCI) is that they gave around 30 cold offers. A bunch of this school's summers are reinterviewing, a bit paranoid.
Not evaluation-based cold offers, purely for economic reasons (the firm overhiring). Definitely a firm to avoid this cycle.
shearman is like a dinosaur in the legal world. Its inability to evolve has seen its competitors surge past it and leave it as a second tier firm. My friends tell me that morale is way beyond poor and it is clear why. A 7,000 dollar advance and a 6 month waiting period to start compared to many firms that are giving a stipend or a larger advance for a shorter waiting period and it is clear to everyone that the firm doesn't put much stock in its associates.
i work at latham and i think that the firm's meteoric rise is directly related to the fact that they at least pretend to care about their associates .
In this market, I would try to get as many as offers as you can. Getting an offer some place is better than getting no offer at all.
not if it means you'll get fired the next day. you want to get as many offers as you can- but you dont want to join crumbling firms.
The comment below is the only useful (and real) comment.
Call it layoffs, call it performance based, the substance is always the same...
Shearman is doing stealth layoffs. Typical process. Good reviews and then bad review in which they say the situation is not reparable and the associate should look for a new job. They are doing it in waves to avert the bad optics. The word is that the PPP is projected to be down $500k so it makes sense. The pushed back start dates reflect the same backdoor method of reducing/pushing people out.
The comment below is the only useful (and real) comment.
Call it layoffs, call it performance based, the substance is always the same...
Shearman is doing stealth layoffs. Typical process. Good reviews and then bad review in which they say the situation is not reparable and the associate should look for a new job. They are doing it in waves to avert the bad optics. The word is that the PPP is projected to be down $500k so it makes sense. The pushed back start dates reflect the same backdoor method of reducing/pushing people out.