1 is an f*ing loser.

Another horrible post.

They don't exist so that you can "announce your vacation."

awk?

This first year has a lot to learn. Perhaps sending him on a 3 month doc review trip to, say, East St. Louis will educate him. Know your role.

Yeah, we know 1: you hate Elie, Lat please stay, I'm going back to xoxo, FAIL, blah, blah, blah.

Good post, Elie. You're getting better and better at this.

Must be a HLS alum with an underdeveloped sense of entitlement.

Yes, this person is silly, but this post is unnecessarily mean-spirited, and not particularly funny. Combined with the ridiculous (and really boring) Hope Winters stories, I'm not sure what is going on at ATL.

7 = Elie or Lat

Bow to the Queen of Slime, the Queen of Filth, the Queen of Putrescence. Boo. Boo. Rubbish. Filth. Slime. Muck. Boo. Boo. Boo. ~ this posts blows.

For a "legal tabloid," ATL has become very thin on sensational news, egregious in its (unnecessary) editorials and, as a result, very disappointing to read. I like to support independent and new media, but not when its content is pale in comparison to MSM. I'm reading the WSJ Law Blog. They do it better. Elie, you’ve just lost my five page views per day.

I think a reminder a week before you're out of the office is the best policy. Don't ask, just tell.

So some kid wanted to communicate to his co-workers that he would be available while on vacation. SO FUCKING WHAT?

I am so sad that ATL has completely jumped the shark. I really loved this blog and it used to be a cut above... now it's almost completely unbearable.

Elie has no sense of humor or comedic timing or awareness of what's worth writing about or even a decent appreciation of the quirks of the legal community. I want to poke him with sharp things! Agggh! LAT, COME BAAAAAAACK!

i thought it was a decent effort. i didn't seen anything "mean" about this post (especially since it was redacted), but rather was a pretty accurate description of how the memo would be received by more senior people at the firm (who, admittedly, live in a warped universe).

i never miss the opportunity to bash mystal when i can, but this was passable. no complaints here.

can you tell us what firm this was at? and whether or not this associate has been shitcanned yet?

Way to avoid utter suckage for the twelve consecutive hours, Elie.

Unnecessarily mean-spirited? I call bullshit! It's not mean-spirited ENOUGH.

Good post, a little to mean, but the following is wrong:

"Here's a tip that you'll want to internalize as soon as possible: if you haven't been staffed on any matters, STFU!"

If you haven't been staffed on any matters you want to knock on every door until you are staffed on some, with your lips purple and sore from ass-kissing, if need be.

I find this really funny. That some idiot would send this out shows a complete lack of judgment and perspective. The people who take the time to read posts and complain show the same qualities. I think the comments so far are intended to protect their own.

Why can't you give Elie a chance? The content seems the same to me with Lat and Elie, but then again, I read posts just to take a little break at work. But if you're not working and instead analyzing every single word on each ATL post, then maybe you have larger problems.

how is this comment thread a meta-discussion about whether the post itself is funny "enough"?

what's sadder than the fact that some of you have some level of "expectation" about a blog, that you can have "disappointment" about such that you'd actually comment about it?

wow.

I am starting to hate you less, Elie. Keep up the no-longer-unbearable work. Eventually I may even stop burning you in effigy.

how is this comment thread a meta-discussion about whether the post itself is funny "enough"?

what's sadder than the fact that some of you have some level of "expectation" about a blog, that you can have "disappointment" about such that you'd actually comment about it?

wow.

"2. Your Mommy can't protect now. Remember: parents < children < clients. "

lulz.

i agree. unnecessarily mean spirited.

FirsTTT Years to New Summer Associates of the Day

(good post, missed this kind of stuff over the summer)

Most people don't even read the post iteself anymore--they just read who wrote it, and respond accordingly.

@ 22 and 24:

ATL used to be great (particularly during the "NY to 145" and "NY to 160" days). We loved reading it. We loved commenting on it. It's not that every single post was funny--that's probably too much to ask, even from a weekly columnist let along a frequent blogger--but it elicited at least a slight chuckle about 85% of the time, and a really good LOL moment about 15% of the time. In fact, it's not too much of an exaggeration to say that ATL was the highlight of many otherwise terrible days in Biglaw, and I looked forward to reading it every day. So I think that when the editor changes and the whole experience, which on the whole has been extremely positive, looks to be coming to a premature end, it only makes sense for us to express our dissatisfaction (and ask/beg Lat to keep the magic alive).

I agree with 13 -- it's best to just "tell" them that you're going to be out of the office.. though you do run the risk of having your trip canceled at the last minute rather than being aborted in the planning stages -- I suppose its all about when you prefer to hear that you won't be able to go on your vacation/trip/wedding/christmas/birthday/graduation/mother's funeral/etc.

I thought the post was pretty funny; and useful. Lots of 1st years are starting out and this is their first serious job ever. They have no idea how things work, so it's helpful to know things one certainly should not do.
But really, I am confused why there is so much hate directed at Elie. If you really hate his posts, go read something else and STFU. Why is this concept so hard to accept? Lat is moving on, get over it. Is it because xoxohth sucks worse than balls now so those mean spirited tramps need somewhere to vent?

Anyone care to set the odds on this kid being told to cancel his/her Thanksgiving plans? Im going 5-2. If the firm is mean enough, some asshole partner will come up with some "work" to keep him/her in the office Thurs - Sun that weekend just as punishment for sending out this ridiculous email in September.

I was supposed to start at Heller in October...then January. Here's my suggestiion. Fire this first year and hire me. I'll work Thanksgiving weekend. In fact, I'll come to your house and cook your turkey, and I'll bring boxes of documents to review in my free time.

we need to know how much Lat and Mystal make so we can calculate the cost per shitty post.

Not mean enough.

I was supposed to start at Heller in October...then January. Here's my suggestiion. Fire this first year and hire me. I'll work Thanksgiving weekend. In fact, I'll come to your house and cook your turkey, and I'll bring boxes of documents to review in my free time.

33 -

Hilarious. That is, if you are kidding. Sadly, I think you are likely serious.

Good luck...

we need to know how much Lat and Mystal make so we can calculate the cost per shitty post.

This would never happen at Cravath. Cravath material are bred from an early age to know better than this. CWT and Skadden material are raised from an early age to know the proper technique for wiping Cravath material ass.

A lot of people commenting here seem to be unable to deal with change.

Keep up the good work, Elie. We are still reading, aren't we?

So, question,

Just after I start work, I will have to attend a wedding and take a friday off. This is for my only sister, and I am of course the maid of honor. I can't imagine I will be integral 2 weeks in. In any case, should I tell someone before I start work? Or once I get there? And if so, who should I tell?

I think GULC should write a Spring vacation memo to the top-20 spots in US News. Maybe even leave a phone number where we can reach them, ya know, if necessary for some reason.

Thoughts?

I can hardly take a three day weekend without getting a massive guilt trip from my Partner, much less dream of taking a vacation anytime close to Thanksgiving of Christmas. I have not had a real "holiday" since I started practicing. I know my fellow associate comrades feel my pain when I say that Pertners are soulless assholes who care only about their own pockets and who have zero regard for the psychological/emotional wellbeing of their minions. These pricks could learn a thing or two about people management - you got to give respect to receive it. I know that in these times of financial armageddon associates are pretty much screwed in terms of any miniscule leverage we might have had in the past, but if the economy was better, at least we would have the threat of jumping ship.

Sad testament to law practice that this is considered unacceptable.

we need to know how much Lat and Mystal make so we can calculate the cost per shitty post.

I thought the post was pretty funny

Do not submit to "guilt trips" by your partner. He's being paid plenty to do the work. Take your vacation by all means. You deserve it.

- An unemployed Biglaw associate.

P.S. What is your firm?

39 -- Gross

41 -- I am sorry to have to tell you this but you will never be able to see your sister again. You did not become a lawyer to have a sister and "see her."

we need to know how much Lat and Mystal make so we can calculate the cost per shitty post.

FNG

all of the posts are just cynical and sarcastic -- the "i'm smarter and more prestigious than everyone" theme is best left for the comments.

41: in many cases your hours won't start counting toward your annual billables until november or january. so you may not have much work anyway because the 2nd and 3rd years are hording. who knows. i would just play it by ear. if you suspect you are going to be needed that friday then tell as soon as possible and be prepared to work remotely.

50 - new guy? I've been reading this blog for 2 years, son. Asshole.

does anyone think we should inquire how much lat and mystal make so we can calculate the cost per shitty post?

Guys at my high school used to write ridiculously anal firm-wide vacation memos several months in advance all the time and it was no big deal.

-FS

That blows 43. Sadly, this situation is really more the rule than the exception.

33 clearly has the correct read on this awful market we're in. That's a guy I'd hire. If we were hiring.

54 - yeah I do.

54 - yeah I do.

GULC memo to announce hiring of all stealth layoffs of orientals by UVA.

Post #33 FTW

the form of the vacation notice is odd, but other than that, why isn't it reasonable?

Seriously Elie - just report the news and let the commenters handle the snark. You try so hard to be "one of the gang" but you are not.

I'm too 64 this post.

Who else is tired of the commenters blasting Elie on each post. If you don't like it, just leave ATL already and go back to your pitiful lives reviewing documents where you believe you're important.

Maybe its because I'm a 2L and not a lawyer yet, but I find posts like this really funny. In fact I enjoy most of what Elie writes!

I want more info on UVA not so stealth layoffs.

It's a good topic, I'm glad Elie wrote the post, but indeed -- why so long and why so unfunny?

Lat's tone is much less mean.

41: just let whoever you're working for know ahead of time. unless your firm really, REALLY sucks (NOTE: Vault ranking not probative), it will be fine.

weak sauce

41 - I would send an email before you start to the associate development/recruiter person who is your main contact at the firm to let her know and see if there's anything you need to do to make sure you can be free that weekend.

41: I agree with #69. Your sister's wedding is a "good reason".

In my case when there was a particular day I absolutely needed off, I spoke with the head of the department I was in about needing the specific day off and why, it was well in advance. He was fine with it, and he told the other lawyers in the department I'd be unavailable that day. Of course, he was a pretty friendly guy -- I was told that he'd "eased up" after having cardiac problems a few years before!

41 - Some firms have a policy stating you can't take vacation for the first few months. This usually applies to all employees (not just attorneys), and is usually NOT strictly enforced.

I would ask the HR/Legal Personnel department what the policy is. Even if you don't, I can't imagine that anyone would ask you to miss the wedding. But checking beforehand will make your life a little easier.

11 - Inconceivable!

Now, where can I find some iocaine powder to go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

41 - Figure out who you are reporting to and ping them before you show up. Tell them that you *will* be out of town that day and why (do not ask, do not set the stage that you are a pushover that has to ask to be an hour late b/c of an a.m. dental appointment). 95/100, this early it's not a problem. Even if it is a problem, they'll still let you do it. In fact, even when I was at Sidley working 2200hr+, I honestly never had a single planned vacation day stepped on.

41 - Figure out who you are reporting to and ping them before you show up. Tell them that you *will* be out of town that day and why (do not ask, do not set the stage that you are a pushover that has to ask to be an hour late b/c of an a.m. dental appointment). 95/100, this early it's not a problem. Even if it is a problem, they'll still let you do it. In fact, even when I was at Sidley working 2200hr+, I honestly never had a single planned vacation day stepped on.

41 -- I would start wearing knee pads to work pronto and maybe start flexing you jaw muscles a bit because you are going to be very busy with partner crotch real soon.

41 -- Just tell them your sister is Elie Mystal and you should be fine and if that doesn't work then definitely bring your knee pads and start gobbling some partner giblets.

Here's why it's stupid:
- The email is too far in advance. I feel like this kid thinks that if he just calls dibs on Thanksgiving this far in advance, he trumps others' requests. Um no. Summer's over, and it's time to earn your salary.

- The email is too presumptuous. He has no work, so he doesn't know who the proper recipients are. He acknowledges this fact, further drawing attention to his presumptuousness.

- The email shows a lack of understanding of how firms work. Yes, at some firms, you are asked to work holidays just because partners or senior associates are inconsiderate - and the work need not actually be done at that time. But by and large, the work on vacations is dictated by client demands and deal schedules. It sucks, and it won't happen every holiday, but it happens. "Calling it" in advance isn't enough. The kid should make his plans and take work over the next two months that he can schedule around his absence. He should tell partners or senior associates as he gets projects.

- The email doesn't say enough. EVERYONE wants Thanksgiving. It's a secular holiday and the biggest travel time of the year. A first year has no seniority there. Of course people will be taking it off. It's better to say why you need the extra days off (why you're coming back Dec. 2 instead of Dec. 1). It better not be because airfare is cheaper. If it's because you haven't seen your parents in a while, tough. YOU just had a whole summer off and you haven't gotten work yet. You've had all of the time in the world to visit family in the eyes of everyone else at your firm.

Not harsh enough, and I'm normally pretty lenient. It's always best to hang back or ask others how to proceed so you don't look like a tool. That's a fundamental interpersonal skill.

75 : Very well-put. Tell, do not ask. That's the golden rule with any bit of leeway you'll need. BIGLAW will happily take every second of your life without acknowledgment or appreciation, so be assertive when you need to be out of the office and don't feel a shred of guilt.

I think this was useful as first years have no idea how to do this right.
Keep up the good work Elie.

Gooble goble gooble goble you are one us.

How soon is too soon to take a day off? Say you have a wedding on a Friday, how long should you be at the firm before you take that day off? If you start in September, is October too early?

83 -- I want to fire your ass already.

84- I'm sure you are a complete doll to work with/for if asking an anonymous question is enough to push you to fire somebody. Keep up the office morale.

With the issues going on in the economy. Law firms laying off associates and/or no-offering summers, reducing summer programs and the economy heading for a serious recession you are talking about stupid first years?

FIRST YEARS:
No one cares about your vacations and holidays. I don't care if your friends are getting married. I only care if you're in the wedding party - and even then, that's only a day off of work. No days for showers or bachelor parties.

Even if you get married, you better do the calculus on how much time to take off. I took one day off for my wedding, and I was the bride. I didn't take a honeymoon for over 2 years, and I took less than 5 vacation days in the first 3 years. Half of the lawyers I know didn't take their honeymoon when they married - those are the ones with the reputations for being hard workers and likely to stick around. And a 2 week vacation better mean that you have already made your hours or are so close that it's guaranteed.

The other thing you have to realize is that you can be expected to put off a vacation even if you're not busy. It's a down market, and you don't want the firm to know how easily that they can get along without you. Heck, the Heller guy above is going to make the partner turkey - what are you going to do to prove your commitment?

87 - LOL. Unless you're joking, your life sucks. I sure hope that you are glad to be a lawyer!

83 -- Pack your stuff up. You are not Cravath material and everyone knows that if you are not Cravath then you are doomed to a life of ugly people from Michigan and Ohio.

What you all don't know is that this is standard protocol at the firm where the e-mail is posted and hence not very funny.

Yeah what's funny about this post is that the "ironic commentary" is about a message which the "ironic commenter" can't tell is an ironic vacation message written by a first year lawyer who has found an ironic way to comment on the fact that he or she has not yet received any work.

The ironing is delicious.

41 - most places will happily let you take the day off.

I had a similar issue my first year - though it was that the Jewish Holidays were all during the week and I'd need to take more vacation days over the first few months of the year than I would have accrued. Nobody batted an eye.

87 - you are a heartless c*nt! You must have a really happy marriage.

@12 - Agreed.

@87...agree with 94. No need for a honeymoon for you when you are probably so ugly your husband is already cheating on you and doesn't want to have sex with you on a honeymoon anyhow.

Enjoy billing your 3k hours while your axe wound dries up...

Any other 1st year ridiculously slow right now?

I don't understand why this post is so harsh -- it could have been worded in a helpful instead of derogatory manner. In all likelihood, this first year was given the (bad) advice that the appropriate way to handle a vacation is to book it early, tell everyone about it way in advance, and then remind people about it shortly before. I think it was an HR person who told me this early on. With that kind of advice going around, I could see how a first year would be confused.

Here's how to handle vacations. First, schedule them when the partners usually schedule theirs -- spring break, August, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. It's not a guarantee, since it could happen that because the partner is gone, you have to hold down the fort. But, in all likelihood, the partner will try to structure his cases so that nothing too important is going to happen when he's away. And if he's in Italy, it's less likely that he's going to be thinking up work for you to do.

Second, don't bother telling people you're leaving until the week before, because they won't remember it anyway. It's ok to bring it up casually in conversation, but don't send out a mass e-mail well in advance.

Finally, if you're just taking a day off, say a Friday to attend an out-of-town wedding, there's no need to tell everyone unless someone is expecting something specific out of you that day, i.e. if you will be missing a meeting, or if you're working on something urgent with a team who might panic if you're not there. In that case, tell them about your planned absence in person and assure them you'll be checking your blackberry and working remotely from the hotel. Otherwise, just tell your secretary where you are and how you can be reached if something comes up.

I've never been told I can't take a Friday off for a wedding, but I have had to work from my hotel room while I was there.

Personally, I think taking three-day weekends whenever you find the time to squeeze one in is easier and less stressful than planning 10 day trips to Europe. The latter will likely get canceled, which will leave a worse taste in your mouth than if you never scheduled it to begin with.

87 - I hope you're being sarcastic.

@87 and 95 -
We're actually very happy. Thanks! We got married the last time the market was down, and my husband (a AmLaw 50 lawyer) had been laid off. So he had all of the time in the world to honeymoon. We fully realized the realities of doing what you have to do to keep your job when you don't know where the next layoffs are.

I was just trying to warn you. - and I'm one of the nice ones. First years aren't very profitable. And coming in with an entitlement issue doesn't bode well.

"im one of the nice ones"

BWAHAHAHAHAA

How can anyone be nice who thinks it's ok to not (and seems to be offering advice to not) " take a honeymoon for over 2 years, and I took less than 5 vacation days in the first 3 years."

That is a fucked up example to set for those "likely to stick around".

How about this? Almost everyone at my firm takes their entire 4 weeks of vacation, and that includes all the people who made partner this year. At a V30 NYC firm. You are not a nice one, you are a crazy one.

@99...your husband has probably had intercourse with Ashley Dupree! How's Spitza taste!

...and 87's post is the number one reason why you shouldn't even tell people why you're taking a day off. "I have a commitment on Friday and will be out of the office." Period.

87, your faith that your firm values your martyrdom is laughable. Were you at Heller Ehrman, you wouldn't even being getting paid out for those vacation days you sacrificed. Fool.

We don't celebrate Thanksgiving in our Bratislava office. Should I send out an email now anyway if I plan on taking the day off to enjoy white meat and stuffing?

memo, from Partner (me) to Secretary:

Please type a memo from me informing Turkey Associate (TA) that I urgently need him to review 25 boxes of documents "tomorrow, November 27." Postdate the memo to November 26, and do not email to TA until 4:00pm on November 26.

I don't see this as a big deal. I doubt whoever sent the memo was just called "dibs"... someone must have said to send out a memo in advance. And this is in advance.

And if it's policy like 90 is saying, then this entire discussion is pointless.

Yeah... real hilarious that a first year is doing what they were instructed.

Junior associates can add value for senior associates by making themselves available to provide coverage when the senior associates have a conflict (vacation, religous observance, burnout, etc.) Bank up a number of favors before you ask for time off and you'll be more likely to get it, especially compared to junior associates who have built up no such coverage favors. Coordinate as a litigation/deal time to ensure opportunities for time off are spread around and not hogged by the same lazybutts over and over.

Junior associates can add value for senior associates by making themselves available to provide coverage when the senior associates have a conflict (vacation, religous observance, burnout, etc.) Bank up a number of favors before you ask for time off and you'll be more likely to get it, especially compared to junior associates who have built up no such coverage favors. Coordinate as a litigation/deal time to ensure opportunities for time off are spread around and not hogged by the same lazybutts over and over.

Can we please get a thread where people offer advice to first year associates? I am feeling kind of lost and want to make sure I don't accidentally do something stupid like this person did. We've had summer associate advice threads before but that advice is very different (ie don't get too drunk and throw up on a partner).

I second 108's suggestion.

The post was funnier when I thought the associate sent out the e-mail with "[redacted]" as a nerdy joke / b/c he doesn't want to be reached.

I like Elie's posts. It's the comments that blast him that annoy the f*** out of me.

108, good idea. There are a lot of us starting first years with little work and in need of advice.

I'll start: getting drunk and throwing up on a partner is discouraged for first year associates as well as summers. I'd wait until third or fourth year for that.

While you always need to make client demands your priority, I learned the hard way to take as much time off as soon as you can. I never took longer than a three day weekend for five years. While I thought I was being considered a hard working go getter, the fact of the matter is no one gave a shit. The only one who remembers my sacrifice is, well, me. If you work at a firm that looks at you in disdain for taking a week off to get married, you need to find a new firm.