"The founder of Heller Highwater has their own take"

I knew you wouldn't disappoint. I knew there'd be at least ONE goofy mistake in your blog.

Thanks!

Elie MysTTTal messes up another post.

re: 2. ouch. that one hurt my eyes.

I say ENOUGH already about Heller!!! The next post on Heller should either (i) announce its dissolution or (ii) announce, several years from now, its successful revival and growth.

I'm just saying.

Anyone hear anything about steptoe and johnson? They have like 30 outstanding offers in their DC office

How many mediocre offers do they have?

This is no big deal - my buddies in high school declared dissolution a long time ago

NY office is still giving out offers for next year's SA program....I promptly rejected of course

Elie starts the thread with a U2 song? This blog has jumped the shark.

Um, I hope you guys are being sarcastic. I don't think "Heller Highwater" was a mistake. Give Elie some credit; this post didn't suck as completely as all of his other stuff.

"Though it only went up this past Monday, Helller Highwater is getting a ton of traffic and was named the ABA Law Journal's featured blawg of the week."

There are too many L's in "Heller"

When do I stop being a guest and get to be the host? -Lucky 13

You can now get all the "breaking news" the evening before ATL posts on law.com. All this is - is news regurgitation, not news generation.

11: I agree that the post isn't at the average suckiness level of his other ones. I just like how, given that at least 50% (and probably significantly more) of his posts are just copied and pasted in, you would think he'd be able to write what amounts to a single paragraph without glaring errors.

I mean, you would think, right?

Rumor is that Heller only revoked offers to GULC grads. Everyone else is in the clear. I'm just saying.

6 - Is that offers for next year's summer class or for this year's summer class?

Rumor is that GW students do themselves no favors by acting like jealous idiots. I didn't go to either, but I'd rather hire someone who went to a school with a crappy night program than someone who went to a school apparently filled with insecure dolts.

Thanks for the tip, 14. I'll go to boring-*ss law.com nightly from now on to see if ATL is being scooped on any of their blog posts.

Is it HellerEhrmanLLP or

HellerEhrmanTTT?

Just asking........

21 JUMP STREET - SUCK IT!

12 - are you sure? Did you check your bluebook? Geek. Who gives a crap about typoes, it's a friggin blog you dumbass.

I know that their revenue dropped 3% and all, but their PPP for 2007 still broke $1 million, didn't it? Why is this firm headed for the toilet? Its not like they're losing money, or even that far behind their competition. Why the meltdown?

11, look at 2's post again. The second grade-level grammar mistake is that "their" is not singular.

Maybe Heller should merge with Thelen. They have experience on how to survive a deal with a bum merger partner.

#18, GW also has a crappy night program. Just sayin'...

but you're right that GW (Georgetown's Waitlist) students have the biggest chips on their shoulder. I don't disagree that Georgetown isn't really that great of an institution as is vastly overrated (both as a law school and a university overall), but the GW kids have serious insecurity issues when it comes to GTown.

GW is to USC what GTown is to UCLA.

I applaud the continuing effort to highlight Mystal's spelling and grammar errors. It would be one thing if he only made one or two mistakes per day. Instead, he makes three or four per post. If people relentlessly rag on him about it, hopefully it will slowly sink into his head that he should use spell check and maybe proof read just a little, considering that it is, after all, his job.

24 - what exactly are you supposed to write as the singular pronoun for an anonymous and adrogynous blogger. "Their" is the informal but accepted pronoun for singular gender unknown (it reads much better than "his/her"

re: 23:
Heller has lost over 50 partners in the past year and at least 2 failed merger attempts that we know about. Confidence in the firm has slowly been eroding for some time and with each partner or partner group defection, more start to wonder if they are on a sinking ship. It's like the crash '29...

23 -
Lawfirms do not work like other businesses those numbers mean nothing for this year...and in generally are pretty useless anyway

Sounds like what happened at Coudert -- once they said dissolution was one of the options people started running for the lifeboats, right past the orchestra playing on the deck of the Titantic....

Yes 28 you hit it right on my button! I am Heller Drone and have not revealed my gender which is constantly in flux.

I have the last part of my "operation" coming up soon and after that my "candy" will be at home in a jar.

28, you are dead wrong. "Their" is plural, always. It is absolutely never acceptable as singular, though it is often misused in that way by uneducated people. Either say "his/her" or, if possible, pluralize the antecedent reference. Sorry to be pedantic, but this really is basic and I'm shocked that someone with a college education -- let alone a law degree -- would actually deny the error.

heard Lowell Hammer is looking to add on

http://endofesq.com/?p=173

ABL throws us some red meat -- a firm imploding before our eyes -- and this board is debating points of grammer. Pathetic.

These GULC comments are all made by UVA students with penis envy. Go pop your collars C'ville queers.

I applaud the continuing effort to highlight Mystal's spelling and grammar errors. It would be one thing if he only made one or two mistakes per day. Instead, he makes three or four per post. If people relentlessly rag on him about it, hopefully it will slowly sink into his head that he should use spell check and maybe proof read just a little, considering that it is, after all, his job.
__________________________________________

Yes, because your spelling and grammar over at AutoAdmit are SO much better. Now you can make your clever "this comment=Elie" post, or perhaps make a Hizzla reference.

The Hammer!!!

I go to GW and love it. I also think Georgetown is a great school. It's not like people at GW walk around dissing Gtown students all the time. Anyone who says anything to that effect that clearly doesn't go to GW.

33 - welcome to the wonderful world of informality, where proper grammar gives way to readability. If Elie were writing a court document, or a scholarly article, then I'd agree. But for a blog post, where readability is more important than pleasing grammatical purists, "their" works far better than "his/her" where (as here) the antecedent reference can't be easily pluralized (saying "the folks over at Heller Highwater" would do it, but that would be factually inaccurate, which is the greater sin).

Which I suppose is my pedantic way of saying you need to stop being so pedantic.

-28

Heller rolled the dice by taking on the Sonosite litigation despite having a conflict with GE. SONO has a $575m market cap. Who are SONO’s shareholders going to blame if they lose? Why would Baker, Mayer or anybody else take on that potential liability? Did Thayer, the lead on the SONO litigation, move to Covington? No. Covington’s smart enough not to take that on either. Heller Partners are bailing…. Why? Many many reasons. Corporate and litigation practices don’t mix well, Marcia Bruggeman Hatch, Miles Ehrlich, et al. Concrete absorbs a little water.

http://www.hellervermin.com

GULC, VA, GW, HLS...who gives a shit? its all a gateway into a pathetic profession.

37 -- thanks for applauding our efforts. Now get back to being some partner's bitch.

37 Hi Grammer guy. Edit this: U r soo fuuced.

41, you are seriously misinformed on a number of points you make (nearly all of them). Suffice to say, Patty Thayer is one person who deserves zero blame for any of this and you shouldn't be slandering her here.

it's armageddon on wall street

42, I think you meant honorable profession. If you're so disenchanted with the law what are you doing on this board? Go get an MBA or something.

28/40 - Are you high?? Or just dumb? "Their" is plural. Always has been, always will be. If you want to stay away from gender, use the plural, but don't mix and match. It makes you sound stupid.

The problem with letting what you call "informal" writing creep into your use is that it'll become a habit. You'll slip. You'll sound ignorant. Better to keep it correct ALL the time, not just when you've decided it's proper to do so.

47 -- I got one two years ago dickhead. Your JD is as useful as toilet paper.

Wow 49, low blow. You called me dickhead and I'm a perfectly respectable lady. That's just plain rude. Best of luck with your quest towards happiness. I love my JD.

28/40 - Are you high?? Or just dumb? "Their" is plural. Always has been, always will be. If you want to stay away from gender, use the plural, but don't mix and match. It makes you sound stupid.

The problem with letting what you call "informal" writing creep into your use is that it'll become a habit. You'll slip. You'll sound ignorant. Better to keep it correct ALL the time, not just when you've decided it's proper to do so.

28/40 - Are you high?? Or just dumb? "Their" is plural. Always has been, always will be. If you want to stay away from gender, use the plural, but don't mix and match. It makes you sound stupid.

The problem with letting what you call "informal" writing creep into your use is that it'll become a habit. You'll slip. You'll sound ignorant. Better to keep it correct ALL the time, not just when you've decided it's proper to do so.

Why are so many people on this board so gosh darn mean!?! Cheer up!

28/40 - Are you high?? Or just dumb? "Their" is plural. Always has been, always will be. If you want to stay away from gender, use the plural, but don't mix and match. It makes you sound stupid.

The problem with letting what you call "informal" writing creep into your use is that it'll become a habit. You'll slip. You'll sound ignorant. Better to keep it correct ALL the time, not just when you've decided it's proper to do so.

53 you must be very new to this line of work, Unhappiness is a lawyer trait.

53 here. 55, I AM new to this. Just got my JD. Why do so many people want to be lawyers if everyone is so miserable?

41 Is the same batshit crazy idiot who has been rehashing his insane screed for God only knows how long now. He's the legal blog equivalent of a homeless guy on the corner shouting about the invisible bats that won't let him sleep at night It's not even funny anymore., 41, it's just pathetic.

From a January 2003 New York Times article on the fall of Brobeck:

''It is a stunning and incredible tragedy,'' said Barry S. Levin, chairman of Heller Ehrman White & McAuliffe, another San Francisco firm. ''A lot of people are going to want to understand how a firm of the stature of Brobeck could end up dissolving. Whether it's the Internet boom or growing too fast for the volume of work or too much emphasis on one practice area, I don't know."

Delicious irony!

Government bail-out/Heller to merge with DOJ.

Might the DOJ provide a cash infusion to bail out Heller and take an 85% ownership stake in the firm? Why not? Government bail-outs are the rage this week.

I did a callback with Heller DC, and they spent a lot of time trying to convince me that their office wasn't in any trouble and was busy as could be.

Then they dinged me ~ a week later.

56 really for 2 rweasons: 1. because everyone thinks he is an exception and the misery will miss him; and 2. because the sad story is only now being broadly published.

You are very young--pull the rip cord while you can.

Government bail-out/Heller to merge with DOJ.

Might the DOJ provide a cash infusion to bail out Heller and take an 85% ownership stake in the firm? Why not? Government bail-outs are the rage this week.

Government bail-out/Heller to merge with DOJ.

Might the DOJ provide a cash infusion to bail out Heller and take an 85% ownership stake in the firm? Why not? Government bail-outs are the rage this week.

45, do you mean libelling? Or is slandering the correct use when it's comments on a blog?

Yesterday, a Ghostbusters quote.
Today, a U2 quote.
Elie's stock is rising.

Ah, another comment clusterfuck on my favorite blog, Above the Grammar. Joy.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

This firm is done!!!!!

Awesome!!!!

I was at Brobeck when they dissolved. They kept telling us not to worry, it would work out, everything will be fine. Then, on a Thursday, they voted to dissolve. Or, rather, the operating committee of eight partners voted to dissolve. I saw partners crying over the news.

So, Heller associates and staff should get the hell out now.

67 - you're a real class act.

39 - this is 18 - I have no doubt that they don't walk around the GW campus ragging on GULC... but an awful lot of them seem to go online to make anonymous comments about it. Personally, I could give a hoot about the whole thing since my school was better than both of them, but its gotten quite annoying seeing all these morons post their GULC-this and GULC-that comments when they couldn't even get into GULC. I do hate to make generalizations based on a few bad apples, but it really doesn't cast GW in a very good light.

a U2 quote--really? And one of their worst songs.

60--The Heller DC office is actually very busy and people there have an incredible amount of work on their plates still. I doubt anyone tried to convince you that the office was not in trouble because that would not make sense. It doesn't matter that the DC office is so busy--it cannot carry the entire firm. The firm gets in trouble, the DC office obviously gets in trouble. I am sure you were dinged because you apparently cannot reason logically. A lawyer should never interpret the statement (in a response to your question I'm sure) "our office is very busy" to mean that the "office" of a nationwide firm is not in trouble.

Are there actually lawyers on this blog? Heller overlooked it's conflicts for cash. And I doubt Ms. Thayer was the sole arbitrator of whether Heller took on the SONO litigation. Conflicts of interest are serious. The Rules of Professional Conduct were not drafted so lawyers could figure out how to get around them. They serve a higher purpose including preserving the "integrity" of the profession. If you don't want to be encumbered with them then go practice in Russia. Otherwise play by the rules.

41 and 73 - in case no one told you this before you are a completely demented retard. Stop this bullshit with "integrity," Marcia Hatch, and worldwide conspiracies. Yes, the CIA and Heller Ehrman are out to get you - now run away and hide.

Former Heller associate here. Working at Heller was an amazing experience - wonderful mentors and colleagues and interesting work. I wish the best of luck to the remaining Heller lawyers. I am confident that you will land well wherever you go.

For those naysayers and those posters who wish ill of this firm because of personal vendettas, I can only say that I feel bad for you.

73 - I happen to know that Heller is very serious about conflicts and it definitely would not have "overlooked it's [sic] conflicts for cash." Stop before you say things without factual basis.

''It is a stunning and incredible tragedy,'' said Barry S. Levin, chairman of Heller Ehrman White & McAuliffe, another San Francisco firm.

Really? A "stunning and incredible tragedy"? I reserve that language for, I don't know, victims of Hurricane Katrina or Darfur.

48/51/52/54, a few points:

1) If you can't keep from posting the same thing four times, you should really avoid calling others dumb.

2) If you can't keep your informal usage from slipping into your formal documents, don't assume that others have the same problem.

3) You were commenting on its usage in an informal setting (a blog), so while I'm sure Elie appreciates your concern that he might slip and use "their" for a singular gender unknown referent in a formal setting . . .

4) Aside from being a lawyer, I've actually made a nice living as a writer. So thanks for the comments, but lets agree to disagree, k?

(Note - "k?" is an informal rendering of "OK", itself an informal rendering of "okay", itself a slang term for "alright". I hope my usage of "k?" doesn't spark another grammar war. And to be clear - no, it's never slipped into a formal document that I've written)

77- it's actually "alright." with the period within the quotes.

(somebody. stop. me. please.)

and concur re 41. does anyone really care what marcia hatch does with whom (unless there are pics...)? did she dump you or something?

(Note- "pics" is an informal rendering of "pictures.")

42, best comment ever. this sh*t sucks.

74-- 73 here... Heller had $12 million reasons to over look its conflict with GE. I happen to hope Heller wins... speaking for SONO employees... the rest of whom are apparently "demented" like me and have worked their asses off for a long time to make this a successful company. "integrity" is a problem with many lawyers who regard the Rules of Professional Conduct/Responsibiltiy as—to borrow from your vernacular—“bullshit.” Instead of busying yourself figuring out how to extract blood from “demented retards” like myself who have families to feed why don’t you use some of your energy to set an example for the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of American lawyers who’ve lost compassion for their subject matter—the law.

If you're just in it for the money... go practice somewhere else. We have enough problems in this country as it is...

"The Rules of Professional Conduct were not drafted so lawyers could figure out how to get around them."

Really? Guess my firm can get rid of the conflicts partner, then. Thanks for the info.

"GW is to USC what GTown is to UCLA."

26, if you're going to bash a school, at least get the analogy right. Based on your view, the proper analogy is: GW is to GTown what USC is to UCLA.

And isn't it ironic that you are criticizing students of a school for criticizing students of a school. Pray tell, what school did you attend?

Hey SONOSITE jackass commenter, did you know that for all your bitching and moaning, Heller is kicking GE's ass in that case right now? The claim construction was a clear win for SONO, not GE. So for all your issues, it's not hurting SONO.

Anyone have news on the transactional practice groups at Heller? Possible future for the Corp-VLG and Real Estate groups?

Fuhrst!*

*"Fuhrst" is both a typographically satirized rendering of the word "First", connoting sarcasm and cynicism directed at grammar nazis with nothing better to do than troll this board and comment on typos, with the added parodic benefit of claiming to be first when knowingly and actually not even being close to same. Relax folks, there are bigger issues to deal with.

84- brent cohen just jumped to jones day, and I imagine he's not the only one. re VLG, you'd have to think orrick has the inside track, but who knows anymore.

85- solid.

What about the Madison office?

72:

Reading comprehension much?

I said "THEIR" office. As in, the DC office. And I never said that their dinging me had to do with a lack of work.

F*ck off, asshat.

83: does that mean you're long SONO?

Wonder if the Madison people will go back to Foley? A number of them came from there orgininally. The Heller Madison people are really good, talented lawyers...

So Sonosite shareholders are jackasses eh... Obviously you're a greenhorn.... anything can and does happen in a court of law. Instead of cruising ATL maybe you should have your ass in a chair helping your colleagues make certain GE's other lawyers don't sandbag you.

madison is apparently declaring independence. whether they go back to foley remains to be seen. baker's sniffing around NY, so they may end up going w/ them. no idea about DC.

What about Seattle? Before the WaMu troubles this week it seemed like the practice in Seattle was pretty stable.

"before the wamu troubles" is the operative term with seattle.

The WaMu transactional business in Seattle dried up back when the whole subprime meltdown started. There really hasn't been any WaMu work since then. Heller mainly did a lot of securitization work, and the Seattle litigators never did much WaMu work. Maybe 6-8 Heller Seattle transactional lawyers are especially effected by WaMu's troubles.

"Baker sniffing around Heller's NY Office"?

Heller's NY Office is Poison ... Heller's NY Office is what killed Heller.

I would be amazed if Heller's NY Office did enough billable work to pay for their lease in that Times Square Tower.

If Heller's NY Office goes independent, they will probably have to move to cheaper digs.

What is really really funny to me is that Richard Martin hightailed it out of Heller's NYC's Office (to Orrick). Martin was once the managing partner of Heller's New York Office.

Has it already been mentioned that Heller pushed back its start date to January and "released" all fall associates from their obligations if they would like to explore other options?

So sad, I really liked Heller's people in SF.

The Madison office is elite and strategically located. Rocket Docket, ho!

Just about everyone is going to want that group if they can get ahold of them, but they could probably succeed decently on their own.

vote's on tuesday.

This is very sad. A quality firm destroyed itself through poor management and a series of bad decisions. If Heller can fall apart, any firm outside of the NY top-tier can fall apart given a couple of years. It is an interesting lesson. This is not the fast money Brobeck. This was a solid, conservatively managed firm that will be apparently be RIP soon.

"WAS conservatively managed" the important point there.

98: sounds like they're going for the latter.

97- from what "obligations" are the fall associates released? bar stipend, expenses, etc.?

103, those are benefits, not obligations. Obligations would be whatever NALP says about not interviewing with other firms after you've accepted an offer, etc.

My brothers and my sisters, can I get an 'amen' for 82?

Some 2008 summers with offers have been formally advised to seek new work.

Rob Fram screwed over about a thousand people. As of Thursday night/ Friday morning this is accepted as fact by the vast majority of those thousand people. Don't expect associates to just line up and follow him out the door. There will be a fight. People have INTEGRITY at Heller (which as of today still exists as a very excellent firm) and are not the lame sheep that Fram thinks they are. Covington, beware the monster you have invited into your previously calm quarters.

107-- I second that. I personally think that if the IP partners told Covington that they would get enough assocs to follow their lame asses over, Covington just bought a load of shit. --you heard it hear first, Heller Staffer.

Covington to $160k minus Heller equals zero!

Yeah, b/c associates aren't a dime a dozen.

The summer program in LA is still. Well, at least I got an offer. Thank God, it wasn't my only offer . . .

The summer program in LA is still on. Well, at least I got an offer. Thank God, it wasn't my only offer . . .

FCOL, this is not over until the fat lady sings, and believe me, she's isn't even warmed up yet!
Why does everyone think the remaining attorneys are going to just roll over like lame asses? Give me a break.

Wonder what Covington is going to do when Rob Fram decides to leave them for the next place. Implode, I guess, like Heller.

GW is to GTown as Southwestern is to Loyola

GW is to GTown as Southwestern is to Loyola

107, 108, 114: you have now moved on to the second stage of grief - anger (follows denial, precedes bargaining, depression, and acceptance). Nobody gives a damn about associates, unless it's a recruiting event. Heller could survive, but that's highly unlikely with its current management, which got the firm into this position in the first place. The only chance of survival is by having all remaining rainmakers reach a stand-still no-defections agreement, lay off a bunch of associates, and close some of the empty offices (like San Diego). Then, after a year, make a really big effort to attract lateral partners. None of this is going to happen, of course, and the primary reason is that management has lost all of its credibility. Everyone is shopping around and even though the economy is bad, a lot of the groups will be able to move to other firms. The only thing that's sad about this situation is that it's happening to Heller, which was for many years one of the best law firms on the West Coast.

Here is what I don't get - Haslam and Fram are still listed in Heller's attorney directory on the website. I guess that's because Hellerites are busy with more important things than updating the website (like looking for other employment). However, Covington never issued a press release about Haslam/Fram and they are not listed on Covington's website. What's the deal?

118, end ot the month is DDay. Can't believe they gave 2 week notice. What's up with that?

98 and 102: I wouldn't be so sure the madison office is going alone, at least that's not what I hear. it is certainly an office that is doing really well and just from what I hear on the internal grapevine, the madison office has a number of suitors.

98 and 102: you've been with the glue again, haven't you?

Heller Associates - you need to follow the lead of the Heller support staff and get organized - perhaps you don't want to do it with a nifty blog (who could ever be true to any blog but ATL despite Elie's stumbling utterances) but get organized somehow.

And if you want to join in at Heller Highwater we'll welcome you. We think the associates at Heller are great and they are getting a non-lubed butt screwing. A not so Lucky Pierre.

107 & 108 - Any IP lit associate who chooses unemployment over Covington is an idiot. Even if Covington and Fram aren't your dream, you go as a stop-gap until you can find the job you do want. It really should go without saying that in this economy, unemployment need to be the last resort.

No surprise. I mean, I went to their site, heller.com and you get some religious guy singing really bad songs. How can a big firm like heller not control the domain name heller?

Give me a break 117--because folks (107, 108 & 114) recognize that Heller got screwed by Fram, Haslam and the other folks, who pulled the pin on a grenede and threw it in the room behind them, does not make the observation born of grief. Nor are the folks left behind a bunch of dead weight with no book and no options, as one genius seemed to suggest. It appears to me that Fram, Haslam and Blankenheimer used their positions of leadership to convince many of Heller's partners to lock arms while at the same time they were engineering a secret exit strategy. An exit strategy that, among other things, protected their capital in Heller because Covington likely gave them credit for it. It's not that hard to see why people are pissed and might not have complete trust in our departing friends. I agree that Heller can not rebound, but your observation that nobody gives a damn about associates exposes you as a complete douchbag. Finally, your turn-around plan (even if management were great) is just about the lamest idea I have heard all week.

Any truth to the rumor VLG is merging with the Cali Cartel?

125: heard that too. good riddance.

124, calm down with the personal attacks and reread 117's post. I don't think 117 is endorsing the view that no one cares about associates. I think he's just expressing the reality that when these types of deals are made, associates are not a big factor in the decision. We're just fungible units to them. If they can't get enough heller IP associates to go over to covington, then they'll just hire more.

Secondly, stop with this pulling the pin on a grenade bullshit. The IP partners who are leaving expressed to firm management a LONG time ago (during the Baker talks) that they were against any sort of merger. They didn't go to any of the Mayer Brown merger meetings. If these partners didn't leave as a group, they probably would have left individually anyway and joined the group of 50+ partners that have been trickling out of here over the past year. The firm management has brought this place down, and now instead of stepping up and being responsible, they've found a convenient scapegoat in the IP group.

And from reading the comments, it looks like a lot of folks have bought the spin and are directing their anger and frustration in the wrong direction. Keep us raving mad and spewing venom against IP instead of holding them accountable and working to find a solution. This way Larrabee and his crew can dissolve the firm, save their sorry asses, and leave the rest of us clinging to pieces of driftwood from this sinking ship.

127: Nice post. I can't believe anyone still believes anything that comes out of "management's" mouth. Talk about living in a bubble.

Maybe they believe Saddam was behind 9/11 too.

Completely agree with 127 and 128. Marie Fiala's little outburst was the most self-serving load of shit I've ever heard. As part of the management committee, she deserves a huge part of the blame here. Not to mention she's a complete phony, just like Larrabee.

And 124, what the hell could your basis possibly be for this:

"It appears to me that Fram, Haslam and Blankenheimer used their positions of leadership to convince many of Heller's partners to lock arms while at the same time they were engineering a secret exit strategy."

Unless you're on the policy committee yourself (in which case I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you anyway), you clearly have no first-hand knowledge of any of this.

The primary reason people stopped caring: the VLG folks imported Wilson’s attitude of “every practice “pod” for itself.” This contrasted with Heller’s previously high level of cross-practice and cross-office cooperation. While it is true that this tradition already may have been diminishing somewhat with growth, VLG was allowed to put an end to it. And they did. The more decent half of VLG departed for Orrick, leaving…the rest. To be fair, the Brobeck guys were no gems, and their savaging of SD showed their colors as well. But Barry and Matt entrusted VLG to lead a modest but high-quality corporate practice. VLG’s inability to play well with others, and their client base of occassionally charming but typically low-value clients, killed any chance of growing a substantial corporate practice. Absorbing VLG was like mainlining the dot-com bubble: an embolsim was certain to follow. And it has.

129, will you fill us non-SF associates in on the outburst?

131, at an associates meeting run by Barry Levin, she grabbed the podium and told everyone that the departing IP shareholders were solely responsible for the Mayer merger not going through "the but-for and the proximate cause." And gave a false version of the timeline, claiming that this move to CB didn't get ginned up or brought to management's attention until after the Mayer thing got going.

It was positively Rovian.

Is there any chance of a severance package at this point?

Didn't Fram come to Heller from Covington in the first place? I think he did, so 107, I don't think they need to be warned.

Does this mean that Matt Larrabee is not getting an Applause Card?

Thanks 132 -- I think Rovian is an apt description of her.

133, get fucking real. You will be lucky if your vacation gets paid out sometime in the next 12 months.

135: LOL

Larrabee hasn't shown his face to associates since his bomb of a presentation following the Baker meltdown (in which he still refused to acknowledge there had ever been talks with Baker or say the word "merger").

Heller's meltdown began almost a decade ago, when they decided to attempt to position themselves as a California firm with NY attitude. Well, when you attract people in part due to you "congenial" atmosphere and not based on your dogged aggressiveness, what do you get? A tiger with no teeth? A chihuahua with 3" fangs? Either one is ineffective and damned unhappy. And when did HEWM start cross-selling among practice groups? Never happened in the 10 years I was there. The upper echelon never understood basic physics and construction techniques, either; that is, if you continue to chip away at your base, you eventually become top heavy and topple over. From all the hot air at the top you'd think they would simply float away, but the egos are acting as a counterweight. They have a chance to recover, but not while they are still pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.

As a former Heller client, I am not surprised. The billing practices, attorneys' attention to my company and bad advice cost me and my company dearly. Frankly, the support staff was the best part of this law firm. I wish the staffers the best of luck.

As a former Heller client, I am not surprised. The billing practices, attorneys' attention to my company and bad advice cost me and my company dearly. Frankly, the support staff was the best part of this law firm. I wish the staffers the best of luck.

141/142: disgruntled former Heller paralegal

143: or CEO

Larrabee = George W. Bush

144: yep, and I was born yesterday. CEO trolling on a legal blog on a busy workday? gimme a break

If any CEO is spending his day hanging out on ATL, I predict failure for the company regardless of the quality of the legal advice.

141/142: GULC alum

Simply put, IP Litigators are backstabbers. Mayer merger would have gone thru but for their departures, it seems pretty clear. Also, the VLG merger was a huge mistake and killed the Heller culture and undermined morale. Heller was a truly outstanding law firm, what a shame.

149 = Marie Fiala

141/142 is the same crazy dood as 72/73/80 above. Seriously, disregard this idiot - he posts the same BS on all message boards - from Yahoo Finance (http://finance.google.com/group/google.finance.662201/browse_thread/thread/f34bc284da6e4914) to craigslist (deleted). He could be a CEO, but he is also Napoleon, Brad Pitt, and Condoleezza Rice, depending on his mood.

Assuming there is any truth to 127's post, I am at a loss to understand why people think the IP lit folks should have gone along with a merger that would have been to their detriment and that they made their opposition to known from the start (so management probably had a really good clue they would leave if it went through), for everyone else. Why should they have to fall on the knife for a bunch of people who apparently didn't produce enough for Mayer Brown to want them on their own?

145: Larabee's hooked up with the Clintons. Gave to HC's campaign. He's a trial lawyer after all.

151: so who's the http://www.evilesq.com dude?

What is 141, 142's deal?

149: Nailed it -- Barry Levin + David Jargiello + Minions = FUBAR

156: I tapped 149 last night too. Damn, talk about beer goggles...couldn't get outta there fast enough this morning.

Oh wait, were you talking about something else?

IP group did not kill anything - seriously, get over it (disclosure: I am not connected to IP group in any way). MB merger was Heller's last chance of survival, and the IP group did not get Heller to this point. In fact, IP folks did what about 70 other partners have done before them over the past year; most of those 70 were senior rainmakers.

http://hellerdrone.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/are-some-life-perservers-more-golden-than-others/

More like Matt Larrabee= Duong Van Minh...

PoliSci majors- REPRESENT!

As a past employee, Heller was a great place to work - a lot of exceptional attorneys and staff. Very unfortunate that this is happening to everyone involved.

You're missing the point, 153. In terms of leadership, competence, and total disappearance in a time of crisis, Larrabee = George W. Bush.

- 145

Heller was once a great place to work, it's culture molded me as an outstanding litigation secretary. They had the best training program and superb trainers for professional support staff. It was there for you to utilize it. However, in 2000 the firm started hiring "know it all" middle management to micromanage its staff --- to the point that layoffs occurred -- thus it's culture died. Heller was grossly mismanaged. There is a saying: "Why fix something that ain't broken." It is sad to see a great firm now in the brink of extinction.

162: I'll concede leadership and competence... unfortunately GWB hasn't disappeared during times of crisis.
Law firms, like I-Banks, are notorious for being poorly managed. The problem is twofold-- too many Chiefs, not enough Indians; and an inability to take one’s own advice. Heller was a bunch of silos the worst being VLG. That merger should never have happened. VLG was on the verge of dissolving in ought three. Had Heller not rescued them from the brink of extinction, I don’t think they’d be facing the problems they are today. BL and MB both had opportunities to mitigate the deleterious effect of the tie up. But they were blinded by their egos, decided to play the power game to solve VLG’s problems. Rather than resolving VLG’s issues they exacerbated them. The power game they played turned a lot of folks off—the kind of folks who authorize engagement letters and wire transfers. Now they’ve got a debacle and a lot of people are hurting as a consequence.
153

Under the WARNED Act doesn't Heller have to give its employees two months pay?

164, VLG is part of it, overexpansion is part of it, and the poor handling of long-term client relationships is a very large part of it. But, and I don't mean this as an excuse, the biggest part of it is bad luck. No one wants to hear that as an explanation, because it confounds our ideas of how powerful we all are, but both the Baker and Mayer deals were microns away from coming to pass. If either had happened, management would be regarded as heroes. But the ball bounced the other way, and now they're zeroes. Let's all pack it up and move on. I've lost an enormous amount from this fiasco -- five years down the drain that I will never get back,-- but the fingerpointing will not regain a second of that. I'm going home, having a drink, hugging my kids, and catching up on last week's "Mad Men." Life could be a hell of a lot worse.

VLG is getting mentioned a lot. Other than vague generalizations about how "things changed after that" or the like, how is the addition of VLG the cause of the current problems?

( And please, if you are 41, the obsessed kook with the axe to grind, spare us your ramblings, nobody cares)

167: Hi sweet tits--
41

Rumor has it that Hubbell has 3 offers. What an a**hole.

41--you sound like a great client. Can I put you down on my lateral partner hiring form? How much biz do you think we can do next year? How's five milli sound? Cool--thanks 41.

169, why are you so mad if Hubbell does have offers? I am a former Heller attorney, know the man well, really went to bat for me when I was there. Everyone is trying to figure out where to land next. Hubbell is a good man and, if he does have three offers, good for him.

169, 171, okay so it's every man/woman for him/her self. So one of the leaders splits, maybe this is a good thing? This really really stinks. What a laughing stock we've become.

Oh and 41 is a stalker nut job with multiple restraining orders against him. Don't waste time reading or responding to him.

Heller's last win:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0919082mattress1.html?link=eaf

Heller Madison=the old Heller Ehrman

Tell you what Sweet Tits, if you can recover the $25+million (more like $32) your friend/law partner/colleague, Marcia Hatch and her husband stole from me and my firm, I’d be delighted to lend a hand with your lateral. While you’re at it how bout you help the other victims of their crimes… like Glenn Watson:
http://www.barracapital.com/lawyerdocs/documents/glenn-watson-letter-re-aran-strategic-finance.pdf
Like me, Glenn has a family who depend on him. It’s very sad that a couple psychopath’s stole and misused his identity jeopardizing his ability to support his family, just as they did me.
If you’d like I can send you a list of the other victims—there are five other individuals that I’m certain of and more I suspect have been victims of your friend/law partner/colleague. Perhaps you can help them too.
While you’re at it, perhaps you could recover my personal mail that Seamus and Marcia Hatch redirected, without authorization or my knowledge to their residence. Just send it to Kevin Goodwin of Sonosite.
Regarding the money-laundering, narcotics trafficking and bribing judicial officials, you’re welcome to review my witness affidavits and even speak to the witnesses— you might want to check with the feds first to be certain they don’t get the impression you’re trying to tamper with witnesses—one of whom might I add is a senior partner of a major law firm. And yes, in Marcia Hatch’s plot regarding money laundering there are witnesses. If you want to read a bit more about this see:
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/California_Bar_complaint_against_former_federal_prosecutor_Miles_Ehrlich
and
http://www.barracapital.com/lawyerdocs/documents/heller-ehrman-complaint.pdf
Two questions I’d really like an answer to—when Marcia and Seamus Hatch were in my S.F. flat in early July, 2003— without my knowledge—a witness informed me of this did they wash the sheets when they were done? And 2) have they destroyed the data files they copied off my computer?
If I don’t hear from you… good luck with your lateral!
41

170, 172 sounds like a self-promoting, aggrandizing nut-job.
Wow 41.... you got screwed. Good luck!

171 here, 172, I understand your disappointment. Heller is the best place I ever worked. I learned from some great mentors. And Heller made INCREDIBLE accomodations for me when I was going through a bitter custody dispute involving my daughter. I will never forget any of that, or the people that made those accomodations possible, including Hubbell. I am saddenned by the firm's demise, but I will certainly continue the lasting friendships I made there with attorneys and staff. However, this works out, I wish you the best.

I've heard that Heller Madison has had a steady stream of representatives from national firms visiting. But the person I spoke to there seems to think that some of the lawyers are most worried about getting absorbed by a Wisconsin firm (read: Foley).

Elie, you need to seriously block 175. He is like a poison that won't quit and it will become more and more ridiculous.

Heller was and is a very decent firm with very decent people. I wish them all a successful and speedy recovery

What's up with Matt's email from Saturday re entering time? Strange that that would be the first communication we receive from him since hitting the iceberg.

181: ya think? think accounts receivable then think bank loans then PANIC

Did anyone see the FW email from the attorney in Alaska sent on Friday night? Has anyone else noticed that it has been magically removed from the inboxes?

what did it say?

what did it say?

183 - I noticed. The email was thoughtful and nicely written. Its deletion was disappointing, just like all of management's decisions. They probably realized that the email might have a beneficial effect on morale...and then concluded that the only logical thing to do is to delete it as quickly as possible.

FYI, I'm not the author of that email.

183, 186:

What did the email say?

While the email was a bit of a Jerry Macguire manifesto, it was well written and really could have contributed to morale.

I wish that I would have saved it -- I was sad to wake up Saturday morning to discover that it was magically deleted.

Was it by Torgerson from Anchorage?

The email wasn't even controversial. I actually thought it was a nice reminder of why so many of us stuck around for so long. This firm has lost all semblance of integrity. 186 is spot on.

I think maybe I won't enter my time until they restore the email or explain why it was deleted. What are they going to do, fire me?

It was a really nice email. Did anyone save it? What did it say that was bad besides keep your heads up in times of trouble. Everyone admits that there's trouble.

When I left a little over a year ago (I wasn't a shareholder), during the exit interview I was startled to learn that any departing-employee email had to be submitted to HR for approval. Given the shocking incompetence of the HR employee in this office, it was in a way the perfect ending to the journey I'd been on for so many years. When I started, I was encouraged to contribute and grow and be part of a team. By the time I left, I was viewed as a cost to be outsourced if at all possible, and barely an adult. Oh, the genius of "professional" management!

No 189 -- it was an associate. It seems tacky to post his/her name on ATL. But, I'm sure a quick search of the HE website for associates in Alaska should narrow it down for you.

And 190 is right -- it was not controversial at all. The only controversial part was its blatant acknowledgment that the FW email was against firm policy and a slight musing about whether or not the powers that be would delete it.

Is vacation going to be paid out?

Is severence going to be paid out? How much?

-staffer

What groups are gettting solicited big time? I've heard that the energy group have been bombarded big time, as have the Madison folks.

Sorry to be a spoil-sport, but I thought the email was lame. I don't want or need someone in the Alaska office to define my experience at Heller. Save it for your thearapist and leave my godda$m in-box alone.

Oh and the likely reason it was deleted is so that we don't get bombarded with more of them.

I disagree but that was a funny post.

197 - you're lame. Ever hear of a delete button? Hit it and shut up already. No one cares whether or not you liked the email.

The email is saved. It's on Heller Highwater.

http://hellerdrone.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/open-thread-thursday-cures-for-sea-sickness/#comment-98

Sick time will not be paid out. I will be shocked if there is severance. Vacation will be paid out in CA, I don't believe the law in NY requires it.

Dear Friends and Colleagues:
I have spent the last seven years in ABJECT FEAR AND DREAD of accidentally sending a Firmwide message, which, as we all know, is totally prohibited without prior Management approval. In fact, I regularly recoil whenever asked to send even a practice-group-wide email for fear of looking like a total idiot. And although this Firmwide message does not have prior Management approval, strange times call for stranger actions. Before the winds scatter us into becoming the Diaspora Formerly Known as Heller Ehrman, I am writing to you today because I think we still have some unfinished business.

In the flurry of activity beginning Monday morning, there has been confusion, frustration, bewilderment, and of course, deflating spirits hissing a tune that seemed to match that of our financial markets. No doubt many of us have scurried into our separate corners and cubicles, shut our office doors, and proceeded to get on the phone to find Plan Bs to keep the lights on. But in the midst of all of this, I personally have not taken a moment to do something I think is still important –

Pay my respects.
Lest you think I am some kind of out-of-touch cheerleader whose pom-poms are making light of difficult times, I would be the first to point out, of course, it hasn’t always been just lollipops and butterflies – it wouldn’t be the practice of law if that were the case. Personally I’ve had my share of difficult cases, challenging client and internal expectations, and of course, document review paper cuts. When I first started at Heller, my office had a view of some nondescript grey building, which on rainy days, was just about the dirtiest, most depressing thing to look at. But from where I sit today, I have a view of the Pacific Ocean and on a clear day, this continent’s highest peak – Mt. McKinley. (And more importantly on an even clearer day, Russia, if you have a lively imagination or a bionic eye.)

But when I started, I wasn’t even sure I was going to be able to stick with a big firm long enough to ensure that I wouldn’t have to pay back moving expenses. Since then, I’ve morphed through three practice groups, moved from our biggest office to one of our smallest, and watched our Strategic Axis unfold into Strategic Bubbles.

And I’ve worked with countless good and brilliant people.
I’ve always said to others outside our profession I didn’t think I could work for any “Big Firm” other than Heller Ehrman because this firm has tried to be there for its people. On a personal note, when I decided mid-practice to leave San Francisco to clerk in Alaska (of all places), this firm was there for me and supportive of my departure. When I decided to stay up here but continue working with everyone, this firm was there and welcomed me back. When I hit a metaphysical brick wall and began doubting a future in this profession, this firm was still there for me – and stood by side making it hard to just walk away. I of course always thought this firm would be there – for me and for everyone – and would surely outlive all of our own respective legal careers.

But we’ve all had to find out the hard way, from newspapers and blogs, that things are changing. And while many of us have gone into our colleagues’ cubicles and offices to hold each other and weep, we haven’t had a common moment all together – firmwide – to recognize ourselves and be proud of the work we have always done.

I’ve been here through many efforts to re-engineer who we are, including that Strategic Axis (which by the way was very hard to mime when you only have two arms) and the decision to try to juggle the aforementioned strategic bubbles. But in the end, what we have always done at Heller Ehrman is actually quite plain and simple:

Good work, for good clients, with good people.
How’s that for strategery?
As with everything, there is The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. So I believe for each of us, even during difficult times, there has been a moment, at least a flash, when we’ve taken great pride that we work for Heller Ehrman. With no particular authority whatsoever, I ask you all to take a moment to still be proud of that, to remember the times when the firm has managed to be there for you, and most of all, to thank you for being there for the firm and for each other in the work we do. I am not making this sh*t up.

You deserve it.
So to all the attorneys who have tolerated my “stupid” questions and helped me rise to challenges, to all the secretaries who have reformatted every brief I’ve royally screwed up, to all the paralegals and case assistants who have stood by my side while producing millions and millions of pages without blinking or going insane, to all the IT staff who have reworked massive databases all while standing on one leg….

To everyone who has manned this ship, this particular Heller Ehrman employee would like to personally thank you and let you all know you are great people with fine skills which will see you through this challenging time. I have taken pride in working with all of you. And if you are still reading this diatribe, I thank you for your time and hope the best for all of you.

P.S. Please note, again, this is totally NOT a firm-approved message. But somebody had to say something.
Onward and upward,
wd

Heller Ehrman LLP
State Bar of California 2007 President's Pro Bono Service Award, Distinguished Pro Bono
2008 Go-To Law Firm for 2008, American Law Media
Vault.com #1 Law Firm Best in Region (Pacific Northwest)

How much Sake do you think 203 drank before hammering out that gem and sending to everyone in the firm?

I think what she did was amazing. It is really sad that management deleted the message.

What;s so great about Madison?

Madison has IP Lit.

I agree about the email. I found it uplifting, brave and very timely. I had been feeling completely depressed, and while I still do feel depressed, I did remember the times when I felt very proud to work for Heller Ehrman. And, strangely, that helped. As individuals, we will recover and move forward. This transition time sucks. But I don't want to move forward feeling bitter. I would rather remember those good times, feel sad at the way things ended, and know that at least I worked with an amazing group of people for a few years.

Management should not have erased it. I agree that it was lame, a bad decision, and appears to be yet another bad decision to tromp on morale and the now-extinct Heller Culture.

I agree about the email. I found it uplifting, brave and very timely. I had been feeling completely depressed, and while I still do feel depressed, I did remember the times when I felt very proud to work for Heller Ehrman. And, strangely, that helped. As individuals, we will recover and move forward. This transition time sucks. But I don't want to move forward feeling bitter. I would rather remember those good times, feel sad at the way things ended, and know that at least I worked with an amazing group of people for a few years.

Management should not have erased it. I agree that it was lame and appears to be yet another bad decision to tromp on morale and the now-extinct Heller Culture.

Heller Highwater mentioned that some offices had a meeting scheduled at 10 a.m. today to discuss a shareholder meeting that occurred yesterday. Any truth to that?

206: It's not just that Madison has IP lit, which it does and does well, it's that it was Heller's most profitable office per attorney. I have a friend who works there and she said that for past five years or so that Madison has turned huge profits. They've expanded a bit beyond IP, although IP is that office's main staple.

You know, 204, it's one thing to be an asshole -- that's pretty standard around this blog. But racist assholery might be a little much, even for ATL.

212 I was thinking the same thing!!

212, 213? I didn't read 204 as racist(and I come from a long line of racists!).
Would "Bud" be less racist? Maybe it should have read "booze".

Thank you, 214, for your reassurance. We mean that -- because racists vouching for racists instill the highest level of confidence. Really.

(P.S. We also agree with you that Rep. Lynn Westmoreland's "uppity" remark is also a term of affection.)

Anyone inside Heller care to inform us formerly-incoming associates what happend in the all-hands meeting today?

216, are there no incoming associates? Word was that about 54 or so were given a postponed starting date in January 2009. Have "they" terminated that? wtf....

the "vote" is apparently happening today.

what exactly are they voting on? - whether or not to dissolve now or in two weeks?

There are 54 of us and yes, our start date was postponed. But Heller as we know it will not exist in January 2009. We have not been terminated, but we also do not know if we are coming along for the ride, wherever that ride may go.

Yes, 204 is a racist.

216/220 you know as much as us associates on the inside. The only thing that we've heard from mgmt is that we were supposed to enter our time this weekend.

217, given everything that is going on at the moment, I think all of those "incoming" associates need to assume they don't have jobs come January. If by chance they do, that's just a lucky bonus.

Emanuel Heller Joins http://www.EvilEsq.com Editorial staff as S.F. Bureau Chief, Posthumous

If the firm is going to try and keep some doors open, then serious cuts need to be taken (many should have happened a long time ago instead of getting to this point). No wonder the firm is toppling over, it is so top heavy with mid-level & upper management that it takes an inordinate amount of time to make the simplest of decisions or get anything done. Yet they keep hiring people and giving them 'officer' & 'director' titles - some departments more top heavy than others. Three quarters of the marketing staff are officers/directors/ managers. This department is supposed to be about communication,not just externally but internally as well, yet this department has failed Larrabee the most. Here we are in this situation which means those at the top should really be watching expenses, reevaluating positions, etc. but instead it's just status quo for them. Take the COO, it doesn't matter which office he is visiting or if he's in his home office in NY, he takes a car service every where he goes, regardless if he's going two blocks or two miles. Why is he too good for a cab? And then there's HR, the most dysfuntional of all the departments - the head guy couldn't find his own way out of a paper bag! They should have gotten rid of him YEARS ago! As for IT, I just don't hear very many complaints about that department but I'm certain someone out there will correct me. Management, pull your head out of your ass, make some tough cuts - AT ALL LEVELS - and then maybe you will have a chance at keeping the doors open and regaining the respect you deserve.

What are y'all drinking?

220: you're kidding, right? You are not coming along for anything. I wouldn't count on that $10,000 "stipend" either - theoretically it's an obligation of the firm that should not go away even if partners decide to dissolve (similar to leases, etc.) As a practical matter, good luck chasing Larrabee and asking for your money.

225: there is no way this firm can survive. The gin is out of the bottle. The only reason the firm is still around is because (a) it takes time to move entire practice groups to other firms, (b) some groups might have a hard time moving - I mean, who wants VLG which is not going to turn any profit for the next five years?, and (c) Larrabee is probably too drunk to get himself together and call an official meeting to vote on dissolution ;)

Can someone tell us more about what the vote is on? (repeating 219's request)

There is no vote scheduled for today.

- A Heller shareholder who has lost all his capital.

When all is said and done, and the dust settled, the firm's management (and I don't mean just Larrabee, but the entire policy committee and all these officers/directors) should get together and write a book on how to run a profitable firm into the ground in just one year.

A special hat-tip to Heller's "Director of Administration," who has now overseen the demise of TWO major SF firms during her esteemed career.

If she shows up at your firm next, run.

But...but...but...she has often been credited for taking the old-fashioned firm into the modern era and was central to the firm's growth in both size and revenue at the beginning of the millennium. And she was an incredibly powerful force within the firm and ran much of its day to day business.

/snark

Any recommendations for 2008 summers? Apply to Baker/Winston/Mayer? Beg? Cry?

I have to say as someone who has been inside Heller for long enough to know that all of you out there really need to commiserate with the folks (associates, legal assistants, and staff) who will lose their jobs and their health insurance and many of the partners who will not land easily and will lose their capital (for many, an important but now gone piece of their retirement planiing). all because of a dysfunctional management whose main key has been disfranchising and ignoring the people that kept the place humming because they were not perceived as important. I guess the only important people were the ones who had just arrived at the firm in the last few years, earned oversize salaries, had no or little loyalty, and were quick to run if they could make $2.50 more somewhere else. Way to go management in sucking up only to that group at the expense of everyone else. Maybe that's why you alienated virtually everyone along the way.

Oh, and the comment by 225 about the HR department is spot on.

I have to say as someone who has been inside Heller for long enough to know that all of you out there really need to commiserate with the folks (associates, legal assistants, and staff) who will lose their jobs and their health insurance and many of the partners who will not land easily and will lose their capital (for many, an important but now gone piece of their retirement planiing). all because of a dysfunctional management whose main key has been disfranchising and ignoring the people that kept the place humming because they were not perceived as important. I guess the only important people were the ones who had just arrived at the firm in the last few years, earned oversize salaries, had no or little loyalty, and were quick to run if they could make $2.50 more somewhere else. Way to go management in sucking up only to that group at the expense of everyone else. Maybe that's why you alienated virtually everyone along the way.

Oh, and the comment by 225 about the HR department is spot on.

This 2008 summer certainly has already applied to all of those firms (and quite a few others). I also recommend begging at any firm that you might have turned down back in 2007 to work for Heller. At least everyone at other firms understands the situation, though in this economy I fear finding another job may be tough.

Just curious: How much capital will partners lose? Or does it vary from partner to partner?

It varies. Jr partners lose less but they take out a loan, so they are losing big money they don't have.

It was Heller Ehrman's continued attempts to LOOK LIKE a big NY Law Firm that brought all of Heller Ehrman down.

I just wonder what law firm in NY would take on lawyers from Heller's NY Office who spent the last 5 years destroying a 100+ year old SF Law Firm?

191 -- Your rock! Yeah, the Gods would be are thinking or have thought of dissolving. They can't fire you --- they're zombies by now.

I think I have hit a metaphysical brick wall. Can someone please give me a hug?

203 and 209 - Thank you for your kind words but let's face it, we got screwed by the same people whom we admired for many years (and there is no culture left). It will take many months for this untimely demise to sink in.

Any new news? Looks like a vote did not happen today - any word on when a vote will take place? Or, any meetings scheduled?

hearing different things. heard there was supposed to be a meeting yesterday, or a vote today, or a vote tomorrow. not like "management" is saying anything.

This is h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e...........I still can't believe this is happening..........

Staff and Associates: My gut is that you should resign yourself to the worst possible scenario--no job, no severance, no vacation pay, nothing. The fact of the matter is, that we should all be happy if our checks clear on Friday. Not to say that they won't, but I think things are bad enough that if they can pull that off we should be thankful. This is bad. And no, you shouldn't sit around and wait for anyone to do anything for you. The partners are good people, ultimately, but the remaining partners have big problems of their own to worry about. I believe they are trying to do the best, but I think that there is very little they can do at this point, so everyone better brace themselves for the fall.

245 again here--just to be clear, I know no more than you do, I just think it doesn't look good and its better to be prepared than not.

246: they secured a line of credit last week, so the friday checks should clear. beyond that, who knows.

229: I'll see your comment and raise you that the firm's management should get together and write a book on how to run a profitable 119 YEAR OLD LAW FIRM that has survived Black Tuesday and the great depression, survived Black Monday, the S&L Crisis of the 90's and every other low point in American financial history until now into the ground in just one year.

If someone quits before they announce dissolution, are they obligated to payout vacation?

If someone quits before they announce dissolution, are they obligated to payout vacation?

245 - agreed. I think its safe to say we're all pretty much in the dark at this point, so it's best to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Everyday since last Monday I wake up hoping this was some kind of bad dream and everyday I wake up and realize that, no, this is actually happening. And then I utter some type of expletive, roll out of bed, and try to have a productive day, all the while feeling like Seth Davis at the end of Boiler Room:

"I'm no lottery winner, I tried slinging crack-rock, and I never had a jump shot...I gotta find a job!"

238 - I am so sick of the West Coast blaming all of this on NY. The NY associates, paras and staff didn't have a vote and/or a say about Heller setting up shop in NY. We are in the same boat you are. So back off!!

238 - I am so sick of the West Coast blaming all of this on NY. The NY associates, paras and staff didn't have a vote and/or a say about Heller setting up shop in NY. We are in the same boat you are. So back off!!

238 - I am so sick of the West Coast blaming all of this on NY. The NY associates, paras and staff didn't have a vote and/or a say about Heller setting up shop in NY. We are in the same boat you are. So back off!!

238 - I am so sick of the West Coast blaming all of this on NY. The NY associates, paras and staff didn't have a vote and/or a say about Heller setting up shop in NY. We are in the same boat you are. So back off!!

Amen 255!

Is anyone else sick of the West Coast blaming all of this on NY?

252-255: Just hit "post comment" once.

252: chill. So far, Heller's demise has been blamed on the economy, Larrabee/Hubbell, "management" in the form of directors of excellence, NY office, VLG, backstabbing IP group, expansion in Asia, numerous lit cases that settled in '07, and who knows what else. The truth is that there is no single reason for what's happening.

257: I've seen just about everyone blamed for this situation, NY Office, VLG Group, Matt Larrabee, Robert Fram, everyone and everything. It is all part of the grieving process. Denial, anger, then acceptance. My take? Whenever you see a service industry such as a law firm hire a COO and a "Director of Practice Excellence" (whatever the hell that is supposed to be) you can count on the company going into the "tank." Consulants have run many a good company into the ground with their so called effeciency reports. Think about it, they draw huge salaries and are non-billable.

Heller's management's egos intoxicated their intelligence to the point they believed themselves invincible and certainly Above the Law. If VLG Shareholders and "management" want Sympathy offer them this... look it up it in the dictionary... it's between Syphilis and Suicide.

Unfortunately, debacles like Heller management have created impact the rank and file the most. Management certainly have millions which they will keep. Undoubtedly their lifestyles and security will be impacted the least.

Good luck to Heller staff, Associates, and incoming hires... and I do sincerely mean that. I wouldn't wish on anybody what Marcia Bruggeman Hatch, her husband and his business partner did to me and my firm, Barra Partners, LLC because I refused to go along with their illegal, unethical and immoral activities. Barry Levin and David Jargiello stood on the sidelines allowing a firm Heller had a fiduciary duty to protect be pillaged, then worked to cover their own negligence (not sure it was negligence in Jargiello's case) and I'm certain have assisted Marcia Hatch and her cohorts to evade prosecution. They are truly EvilEsqs.

Elsewhere, Emanuel Heller joins http://www.evilesq.com as San Francisco Bureau Chief, Posthumous.

Agent 41

The person railing against NY (I'm pretty sure it's the same person commenting again and again) has the same psychotic temperament as the Barra Capital guy. Don't pay attention to him/her. Sure the NY expansion was horribly executed but no way is the cause of Heller's demise. SF has been bleeding attorneys for a while too and SD is even more of a shit show.

260: there are places where you can get help, but this board is not one of them. Don't you have a full-time job or something better to do with your time? And before you start calling me sweet tits, you know, there are treatments that might help you: http://www.schizophrenia.com/sztreat.html.

260: Does your name happen to be Frank Chu?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Chu

237: As far as I know, junior partners who were promoted internally have not had to take out loans. Their capital is deducted from their pay. They might lose their capital (which in some cases is substantial), but they don't have big loans they won't be able to pay. It may be different for lateral partners, but I am not sure.

Thanks for the advice guys.... keep posting. You're driving a lot of traffic!

Wish all you Venture-Law-Gangers the best.

Maybe you should think about switching careers... economists.... errr.... maybe not.

I think we are being haunted and cursed by the ghosts of White & McAuliffe. This all started right about when we officially dumped them.

266: amen. and to think we paid 250k to a "branding expert" to dump them.

266: that's the funniest thing I've read here for a while.

By the way, no one answered 249/250. Do any employment types know whether associates get vacation paid out if they resign rather than wait for the lights to go out?

So what is up with VLG? Some people on this board are claiming they are part of the problem. MSM outlets are saying VLG is a profitable practice group and will be cherry picked. Which is it and how did they contribute to the demise of Heller?

-- concerned associate from a firm that might cherry pick

269: cherrys are out of season

249/250/268:

Under California law, unless otherwise stipulated by a collective bargaining agreement, whenever the employment relationship ends, for any reason whatsoever, and the employee has not used all of his or her earned and accrued vacation, the employer must pay the employee at his or her final rate of pay for all of his or her earned and accrued and unused vacation days. Labor Code Section 227.3. Because paid vacation benefits are considered wages, such pay must be included in the employee's final paycheck.

Under New York law, if an employee has earned vacation time -- and there is no written forfeit policy, the employer must pay the employee for the accrued vacation.

248, you forgot the biggest obstacle of all - the 1906 earthquake! Heller survived that shakeup too.

hmmm... sounds like goodwin proctor is staffing-up. weren't they one of heller's dance partners at one point?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/lgl/852221278.html

225/233 Tsk Tsk. You're really giving me a chuckle. You better hope that HR is not as incompetent as you want them to be. They are the ones who'll be managing things once the decision is finally made to shut the firm. You better pray that they are very competent and our good HR people and are doing their best to watch out for the interests of employees. Because if they aren't--you truly are screwed.

People, just relax, this is not the end of the world! As a former Heller, I feel truly bad for the firm and the many good people who made it a great place to work for a while. But, with every change comes opportunity, so use it!

Everybody from Heller thinks any reason that doesn't implicate them is the reason the firm imploded. We in NYC believe that part of it is the utter tone deafness of the West Coast leadership with respect to the NYC market, those on the West Coast think it's NYC's ill-advised, rapid expansion. In any event, it's a disaster.

276, the common denominator is Matt Larrabee. If nothing else, I'm happy that he's universally reviled.

Non-Heller associate here from another large SF firm. Best wishes to you folks over there...it must be really tough. I hope you all land on your feet and are in a much better position in a year. Heller is/was a great firm with great people...hang tough. I have an honest question about the Heller situation. I am observing (via news articles and first hand) a feeding frenzy for the remaining partners in the policy holders, antitrust, VLG, securities and a few other groups, too (even real estate!). If those partners are so attractive, why can't the firm circle the wagons, renegotiate its commitments/debts, and fight through this? Can somebody tell me whether that is even within the realm of possibility? Or maybe the answer is that current feeding frenzy is more frenzied than rational?

278 -- I'll tell you. Because no one has the energy to even attempt to excise the parasitical management layer that has built up over the last several years. Hardly anyone even remembers what it was like before they came. It's like a giant tumor, removing it would probably kill the host. Sure, maybe the staff and associates would like to see wagons circling, doors staying open etc., but the shareholders with options just want to get OUT and hope that wherever they land is infection-free. This is TERRIBLE, what has happened here.

comment from 225 is dead on about HR. The HR department has had horrible leadership for years and continued to hire a bunch of managers with no law firm experience . And the comments about the director of administration is dead on but for most of the Heller offices. Folks with large salaries, big egos and no ability to manage anything.

how could anyone in their right mind hire a "director of practice excellence'? those of us on the inside could not decipher what she did, or why she did it, or what benefit it brought? what, don't photocopy so much????? and, we paid her what seems like a stageering sum of money for doing nothing productive. Our management surely has a penchant for relying on consultants (always had) to form goofy circle and arrows and flow charts that have done nothing to improve our practice, the quality of our lives, or our incomes. but they sure bloated the firm. well, i guess it has all come home to roost. it's really too bad.

Chief, CHIEF of Practice Excellence! Director of Practice Excellence is just silly.

281: now don't go dissing the southeast-facing arrow of our "strategic architecture..."

/snark

Hey Barra Capital Guy,

You are RIGHT! All those people DID screw you. In fact, we are ALL out to get you. That is why Heller is falling apart, because everyone is spending time trying to get you. In fact, I'm in your house. Right behind you. No! Not there! Over here! Ooooooh, scary, you nut!

I hope you keep doing your crazy rants. It's funny to watch you spit out your nonsensical blither blather and then have people make fun of you.

Don't go get a life! Keep it coming!

Who is Madison talking to?

285: Madison is talking to:

#41 (they want to secure his unique world view for a generic pharma client's anti-psychotic med trials)

Jefferson (their correspondence on a Bill of Rights is truly enlightening; shame SF management didn't read it)

Your Mom (things have been really stressful lately, and we hear she's always up for a good time. Tell her thanks, and we left our shoes after the Baker merger fell through.)

Good God, the administrative manager in the SV office was spotted playing realtor and taking a group of folks around on a tour of the office space today. Bye bye, Menlo Park. The new tenants want you out of here, pronto!

PS. If you're looking for office space, we hear there are some lovely offices opening up on the 31st floor at 333 Bush next week.

279 has it right. Management built itself up and ignored the shareholders and their needs. But the process happened mainly during a time when the majority of shareholders at the firm were new, so recognition of the problem came late and there were no strong voices in opposition. Most of the more senior shareholders either left, were de-equitized or kept quiet (at least in public). Meanwhile, management just kept adding to itself, even in smaller offices such as Hong Kong.

287 - it wasn't even subtle, was it? It went down at around 6 o'clock, when many associates were still in the office (polishing resumes, presumably). Brazen. The only thing the new tenants didn't do is ask whether any associates come with the floor space (sadly, no). New tenants - are you hiring?

The office space on 31 at 333 Bush is also being shown.

Yikes! Management - please communicate and let us know what is going on instead of us patching things together on this damn website! It is beyond embarrasing. Will Matt, Brad, Exec Committe etc send out an email? Does this have to continue until another leak where we find something out? Please put us out of misery and just tell us where things stand or when they will be decided. Our core values - PEOPLE, COMMUNITY, EXCELLENCE, TEAMWORK etc. along with the dignity and respect policy have have been crapped on by all of you.

291: to quote captain willard in apocalypse now:

"there's no fucking CO here... let's get going..."

Hey 291, you forgot ONE FIRM...though perfectly understandable, given current circumstances.

291: Jesus Christ... that Director of Communications is doing nothing for us. Both internally and externally. Part of the reason we are in this nightmare is because how outside firms & potential clients view us for the past couple years. It effected business development and why the pipeline wasn't filled. Well, that other director is ridiculously unprofessional, so the pipeline wasn't going to get filled anyway. Remaining silent will only worsen an already horrible situation. Don't worry 291, I'm hoping all this will be over soon and none of us will lose anymore sleep on this mess.

294, hey now, don't talk that way about JC. He happens to be a great communicator - but only if you listen for Him.

here's a little something from an article about Heller's New York Office a couple of years ago when Heller had 100 lawyers in its New York Office.

"although the firm is moving into a new Times Square office built for 166 attorneys (with options to lease for 250), even Levin acknowledges that Bay Area firms' lower pay scales can make it tough to recruit among the skyscrapers.

Heller Ehrman knew in2003 that The Word was out in NYC to avoid Heller's New York Office.

Hey 296, you should join forces with the Barra Capital guy. Then you could morph your story that Marcia Hatch and the NY office are responsibe for the failure of the institution and the 9-11 attacks.

297: Drunk drivin' you're keyboard so early in the mornin'.... How's that lateral form comin'?

http://www.hellervermin.com

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/24/BUQ3132UHR.DTL&tsp=1

Thank you 291. I'm glad someone else feels this way.

This is embarrassing. I am getting calls from former colleagues asking what is going on. I have to tell them that they know as much as I do; that I am getting my information from the same place they are. The Newspapers! Tragic.

Can we at least make use of this board and perhaps create a betting pool of which groups and which offices will go to which firms?

Orrick? Bingham? Chadbourne? Winston? Covington?

We're all going to the same place...

Bent, Over & Pounded LLP.

firmwide V/C tonight

What time is the videoconference?

430/730 it's for shareholders , the capital-less wonders.. . . .

Ladies and Gentlemen,

A few thoughts on management from someone who has been here long enough to know. For the better part of nine years, most chiefs, directors and managers in the firm (those folks who seem to be getting slammed quite a bit here) spent an inordinate amount of their time simply trying to decipher what the f*ck Phyllis Gardner was talking about. Maybe the real problem was that firm leadership (EC etc.) seemed to think they actually knew what she was saying. Anyone who suffered through one of her meetings was left wondering how the hell the firm put up with it for so long.

Cutting to the chase, the Greeks gave us the word that we’re all looking for amidst this sturm und drang and the word is “hubris.” How were we prideful? Let us count the ways:

1. we believed that our culture of excellence entitled us to bill at rates equal to the best firms in the industry, rather than maintaining the reasonable rates that had always made us attractive to our clients;
2. we coveted our neighbors space – when one office got a face lift, every other office held out its hand as well (in DC we are currently carrying two leases and losing money hand over fist);
3. we signed leases for space as if we were going to be the next MoFo, setting us up instead to be the next Brobeck;
4. we forgot the simple formula – more hours x higher rates (we did the higher rates by themselves and didn’t bother with asking for more hours);
5. we took pride in our culture and assumed that it would carry us through, when all logic said that there was simply too much money at stake (for folks like the IP Lit group, who stayed for years longer than necessary);
6. at the same time, we turned our backs on our culture by turning our egalitarian compensation system upside down, cutting returns to under-performing partners and opening up the revolving door that is still spinning wildly;
7. and, finally, we spurned the most reasonable suitors (i.e. Goodwin Proctor) and instead tried to jump in bed with two firms in the AmLaw top ten in revenue; really, who the hell do we think we are? As you have all pointed out too often, TTT. Baker and Mayer didn’t get to 2,000+ attorneys by playing nice with poseurs like us, they got there by crushing us like bugs and then swooping in to pick up what was left.

Now, maybe these aren’t exactly the seven deadly sins, but they appear to be enough to have steered Heller directly into the iceberg that is leading us all to pull out our violins. And really, the list could probably run to 700, but who has the heart or the interest to keep it going? Let’s all say this – Heller, Ehrman, White & McAuliffe was a fine firm, full of fine people at every level, none of whom wanted to see this happen. Go out to dinner, or take a long walk, with someone you love. Hold their hand, smile, laugh, breathe in the sweet air, and realize that this will all be over soon enough, we will move on, we will learn to accept what happened to us, and, in time, we will look back fondly and say “That place was pretty cool. I’m glad I had the chance to be there.”

@ 303... when you're with the firm Dewey, Screwum, and Howe, it's no wonder you're going to eventually get bent over and pounded.

307, you nailed it particularly when combined with 288's post.

307, you nailed it particularly when combined with 288's post.

307, thanks for the thoughtful (and accurate) description. I would comment, though, that some offices resisted the expensive and mostly unnecessary remodels. Well, one did. As with everything, local and sensible voices were not heeded, and I guess it's something that the ship goes down with matching curtains.

307, you're right about coveting your neighbors' space. It's a problem at every firm, big or small. The LA office gets a new gym, so the NY office has to have one as well. DC gets their cafeteria and all of a sudden everyone wants one.

Real estate is not cheap, even in this economy. Especially in this economy. Some markets are well above $200 a sf. Yet people can't help themselves to want more, even at the detriment of the better good.

ATL has a new Heller Post----all Heller related comments should be directed at that post.

You heard it here first. The iceberg will strick the employment levels of the titanic at 3:30pm on Friday. Pack your shit NOW!

Nice job 307 and 288. It was a great firm, wasn't it?

Nice job 307 and 288. It was a great firm, wasn't it?

Nothing in this world is permanent. I, for one, will not miss the LEECHING off of clients in need. Yucch. Heller will not be the only one. A lot of trash will wither in this depression we are facing. Good riddance. The world will be BETTER.

Nothing in this world is permanent. I, for one, will not miss the LEECHING off of clients in need. Yucch. Heller will not be the only one. A lot of trash will wither in this depression we are facing. Good riddance. The world will be BETTER.

Nothing in this world is permanent. I, for one, will not miss the LEECHING off of clients in need. Yucch. Heller will not be the only one. A lot of trash will wither in this depression we are facing. Good riddance. The world will be BETTER.

Top Heller management carries a heavy karmic load. Too bad it brought down the firm.

Great post, 307. Best part: For the better part of nine years, most chiefs, directors and managers in the firm (those folks who seem to be getting slammed quite a bit here) spent an inordinate amount of their time simply trying to decipher what the f*ck Phyllis Gardner was talking about. Maybe the real problem was that firm leadership (EC etc.) seemed to think they actually knew what she was saying. Anyone who suffered through one of her meetings was left wondering how the hell the firm put up with it for so long.