These pretzels are making me firsty!

Segundo?

FIRST! OH WOOHOO! FINALLY. I've never been first at anything in life. This is the best day ever!!!

NOT EVEN CLOSE TO FIRST.

From a language standpoint, this was not a terrible post.

I've heard from an associate that Bryan Cave Irvine only gave one offer last summer, with a pretty low number in the rest of the CA offices as well.

OH, man. This has to be the worst year yet to go to law school: skyrocketing tuition, bad interest rates on loans (thanks, credit crunch!), and a new 90% offer standard.

DLA is going to have to be a little less reckless this time around, two years of lots of no offers and they'll struggle to recruit good talent for years if things ever pick back up.

90%? Not in the Cave NY office. BC summers in NY = 12 out of 18 got offers.

Hey 8 - if you're just now entering, you're golden. This thing will turn around in 18 to 24 months, and after all the belt tightening, you'll be snagged in a rebound by the time you graduate. Too bad biglaw blows. Enjoy.

#2 and #4 = FAIL

#2 and #4 = FAIL

11: Are you sure? That makes me feel much better. I'm voting for Obama in November and hoping that I do well in school.

DLA = Complete liars. I know for a fact they have a waitlist.

Wow DLA sucks. Their associate review is "ongoing" . . . yeah right. Are there any other firms that still haven't made decisions on offers?? I doubt it. They say that they haven't made final decisions in order to put off the bad press they will get by no-offering a big percentage of their class until after fall recruiting. Or, perhaps they are hoping that while their summers are still in limbo, they will find other jobs and the firm won't have to report so many no-offers. What a shitty firm.

#16: steptoe & johnson has not yet told anyone in their summer class about offers.

DLA-NY no-offered or wait-listed more than one third of its summer class. So at least some of the reports have not been "exaggerated." The firm no-offered three people from the same T5. If anyone with options goes to DLA, they are nuts.

#17, that's probably true, but that is Uncle Steptoe's M.O. Whereas I'm guessing DLA is diverging from past precedent.

A no offer from Bryan Cave is a blessing in disguise.

BC Santa Monica/OC: Definitely NOT 90% offers. What a bunch of liars.

Does Cooley Godward pay top dollar?

Stroock!!!!!!

Bryan Cave has profound issues right now. Partner productivity is in the crapper. St. Louis partners are also on the verge of mutiny against the firm's delusional leadership team which has vision's of grandeur that are horribly out of line with the reality of their practice, geographic reality and client base. Getting no offer from Bryan Cave IS a blessing folks.

Bryan Cave has profound issues right now. Partner productivity is in the crapper. St. Louis partners are also on the verge of mutiny against the firm's delusional leadership team which has vision's of grandeur that are horribly out of line with the reality of their practice, geographic reality and client base. Getting no offer from Bryan Cave IS a blessing folks.

Elie - Costa lied about the existence of an offer wait-list. I know a summer who was told that DLA could not extend an offer, and that the summer should look elsewhere. The firm said that it was possible that there would be an offer in the future, but basically suggested that the summer shouldn't hold his breath.

If Costa's lying about this, he's probably lying about the number of people that the firm ultimately intends to offer.

Thelen, unsurprisingly, has yet to give out offers.

"moist heap"? gross.

Thelen has given out offers in the Bay Area already.

Bryan Cave's problem is that its in ST. LOUIS, which has been slowly dying as a city for the past 200 years...

Bryan Cave's problem is that it's based in ST. LOUIS, which has been slowly dying as a city for the past 200 years...

So what does any of this mean for DLA? They haven't really said anything other than the offer rate is aboe 66%!

29 - no they haven't.

30: Ugh . . . 1893 World Fair? That was a major hit. My great-grandmother raved about its carousels.

Talk about selective memory . . . .

I'm a 2L with a callback at BC NY this week. Is this something I should make them talk about?

34: mea culpa. Ok, past 100 years...

That's 1904 World's Fair, 34.

He just said that he was not aware of a wait list, - he did not deny its existence

34, the 1893 World's Fair was in Bratislava...

I'm a 2L with a callback at BC NY this week. Is this something I should make them talk about?

Is it me, or does this coverage of DLA seem a little too positive? I mean, we have a firm that publicly states that they hope to, eventually, at some yet to be determined point in the future, give offers to at least 66% of the summer class, and this info is divulged in a paragraph that begins with "[f]irst the good news . . . " ?? Get real. That is BAD news. The worlds biggest firm and they hope to break a 66 offer rate%? By my calculation, that is by far the worst offer rate of the recruiting season.

DUMB ASS 2L'S! You have an interview, not an offer yet. Also, you don't know how many offers you will have in the future! Why in fucks name would you bring this up on an interview. After you get an offer you can ask them about it. Are you fucking retarded?

DUMB ASS 2L'S! You have an interview, not an offer yet. Also, you don't know how many offers you will have in the future! Why in fucks name would you bring this up on an interview. After you get an offer you can ask them about it. Are you fucking retarded?

40, Yes -- you should bring this up first thing in your interview. Tell them you plan on being one of the worst SAs in your class so you are concerned you might not make the 90% cut and want a guaranteed permanent offer before signing up for the summer.

so which DLA offices are we talking about here? Bratislava? Mwanza? Tampa? God forbid its the Lusaka office.

y'all are whack, y'all. In TEXAS you get an offer unless you suck. We don't like new associates to suck, only old ones. So, if you're a summer and you don't suck, you get an offer. If you're a summer and you do suck and you're a diversity candidate, you get an offer. Doesn't that party, y'all?

y'all are whack, y'all. In TEXAS you get an offer unless you suck. We don't like new associates to suck, only old ones. So, if you're a summer and you don't suck, you get an offer. If you're a summer and you do suck and you're a diversity candidate, you get an offer. Doesn't that party, y'all?

y'all are whack, y'all. In TEXAS you get an offer unless you suck. We don't like new associates to suck, only old ones. So, if you're a summer and you don't suck, you get an offer. If you're a summer and you do suck and you're a diversity candidate, you get an offer. Doesn't that party, y'all?

I completely do not understand these offer/no offer articles. If you get no-offered at DLA, you had a sweet summer with mad cash, and then not only are you free to go work somewhere else, but you can tell your other interviewers that you didn't get an offer due to the economy.

If you DO get an offer at DLA, you're heading back there in a year to fight it out with all the other people they don't have work for. These no-offers are blessings.

I would enter Bryan's Cave if I had a gunner to my head. Disgusting moist heap.

Judge Halverson

all of the Chicago BC summers received an offer!

49 is right, of course. DLA has no work for its current associates, so the no-offers are probably blessings.

However, some of the vitriol that we are seeing in the comments comes from the way that DLA made its decision. No-offerees were blindsided by critical exit interviews after receiving terrific reviews and feedback all summer long. Furthermore, the firm has rebuffed no-offerees (or wait-list candidates) when they inquired about recommendations for 3L OCI. Pretty shameful all around.

I assume that for next year's OCI there's going to be a very complete list of all the firms that no-offered this year so that they'll be forced into taking lower-quality applicants next time around.

Not sure I understand the "DLA has no work" rumor given the fact that last week it was reported in these pages that 8 corporate finance partners are joining the firm's NY office. Traditionally when a firm is floundering people tend to leave, not the other way around.

I heard that DLA sent all their partners on what must have been a billion dollar plus cruise in the Mediterranean this summer. Now they magically don't have enough money to give their summer class offers. Especially for such a large firm with such comparatively small summer classes, this is really just inexcusable.

DLA = Dead Last Again

That DLA and BC have been having problems has been widely known to the legal community for the last few years. Why any 2L would have gone there (assuming they had other options) is beyond me.

Bryan Cave will be fine once it merges with Thelen to become Bryan Cave Thelen.

a WAITLIST? How the heck does THAT work?

59: The DLA waitlist worked something like this: We can't give you an offer, but if someone else doesn't accept, we might call you back and offer you something.

59, the DLA waitlist is just lipservice. It's a way for them to keep their offer numbers up.

They'll be keeping summers on the "waitlist" all year long "just in case something opens up," meanwhile hoping the summers find a new job so they don't have to officially no-offer them.

what about foley? Has ATL tried to speak within anyone at Foley?

61 here, one more thing...

I believe the official name of the waitlist is something like "offer under consideration," hence the spokesperson saying some summers are still being evaluated.

Clearly this is BS, considering offers for everyone else have already been given out. They're intentionally delaying the process as long as they can, so it stings them less in recruiting this year.

BC Santa Monica (Los Angeles) - Summer 2008:

Six summer associates.
Five are current 3Ls. One is a current 2L.
Three of the five 3Ls got offers. The 2L was invited to come back next summer.

BC Irvine (Orange County) - Summer 2008:
Four summer associates.
Three are current 3Ls. One is a current 2L.
?

At BC Irvine the "current 2L" as 64 calls it was invited back. One of the "current 3Ls" was given an offer.

DLA no-offered summers in a smallish Bmore class in summer 2005. The firm sucks and has sucked. No news here.

I summered at DLA and the trolling on this board never ceases to amaze me. As far as I know, 3 people out of a class of 25 got no offered. While this is not ideal obviously, there are lots and lots of other firms that did the same this year due to the economy.

Meanwhile, the firms profits per partner have been rising faster than nearly any other law firm over the past two years, and they have attracted a number of high profile corporate and real estate attorneys (meltzer and the steiner group, to name a few). They also beat out Fried Frank as the #1 real estate shop in the world this year. All the dumb asses on this board who say "Everyone has known for years that DLA has been having problems" is probably some 1L troll working for a public injury firm.

Not that I really care what people who read this board think, but it makes me regard the information in the comments as generally made up by bored law students and not based on sharing actual information.

I don't think people are trolling. I can confirm that at least 1/4 of the summers at the DLA office I worked for were no offered.

68: What office was that?

WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT FOLEY CHICAGO

To 67 - You should be thankful that you happened to summer at a DLA office that "only" no-offered 12% of its SAs. Many of your colleagues at different offices were no-offered at a much higher rate (at my office, it was more than 1/3).

Your comment suggests that DLA must be doing well because of PPP or some ridiculous Vault ranking. The point is, firms that are doing well give offers to as many summers as possible in order to avoid the stigma attached to no-offering. It appears that DLA, of all the firms that we have heard about, has given the highest percentage of no-offers this summer.

It should not take a rocket scientist to understand that the firm is struggling.

#67: oh really? the rest of the commenters are bored law students making up information, but YOU are different. YOU are a 3L, with an offer at a big law firm. i bet you were also the most hated person in your summer class.

I am not sure why you would be concerned with a 90% offer percentage. Every year there are a couple of dumb dumbs who should not have even gotten into law school.

I agree with #67. I have no idea where the incorrect information on this board comes from.
EVERYONE in the DC office of DLA got offers.

64/65: BC Irvine no-offered at least one of their 3 summers, even though he/she did good work, did not do anything stupid, etc.

TTT

agree with 70. Why doesn't anyone care about Foley? The problem with Foley is much bigger than Chicago/it reachs most of their offices.

Re: Foley Folks. Foley's a really fiscally conservative place... it makes sense that they'd rather no-offer summers than lay off current associates they've already invested in.

Why don't fiscally conservative places reduce the number of summers they hire in the fall instead of no-offering summers due to financial reasons the following year.

I understand that in some cases financial issues may not be fully apparant when offers to join the firm for the summer are made, but there were signs of the slow down last fall. Also, firms shouldn't have expected the boom in work to last forever. Why not extend offers to 2Ls conservatively and then do 3L hiring the next year if needed?

Foley could have also given out information about permanent offers earlier in the month. If they are no-offering for financial reasons these reasons did not just appear in August. They have known for a while about their finances and should have acted professionaly towards their summer associates by giving them earlier notice about their offers.

67 = someone living in a cave. The facts are out there and DLA NYC is trying to game the system by creating a "waitlist" and hiding the reality. This firm should have to answer for its actions and be honest with law students and future employees. Why can't ALT brand this firm a "no-offer factory" much like CTW was branded for firing associates because DLA's actions are equally reprehensible (if not worst for what they do to law students who didn't even see this coming).

Bryan Cave = TTT. I passed up BC for a midsizer with BigOil clients and am very happy about it.

If you want job security, find out who has BigOil clients. These firms are growing quickly and have huge PPP.

Perhaps we should blame the unreasonable expectations of summer associates rather than law firms. As a summer associate, you are an INTERN, not a full-time employee. When hundreds of thousands of employees are being laid off throughout the country, is it really that shocking and reprehensible that a firm not extend 100% offers? The fact that law firms are hiring at all in this market is somewhat impressive. Try finding a job in finance or retail.

You have not passed the bar and you have virtually no legal experience. I really do feel bad for deserving summer associates that did not receive offers but this sense of entitlement that some of you have need to go. You're all grown adults and it bothers me that some of you are so spoiled and delusional. I know a lot of you law students are weak-minded but it's time to stop whining and get out there on the job market. I've met Frenchmen with more testicular fortitude than you kids.

81--You are a typical "I walked uphill in snow both ways to school when I was a kid" moron. If you get no-offered from a BigLaw firm, other BigLaw firms see this as you being vetted and not worthy of continued attention.

If you get into a Top14 Law school, it means you could have done many things with your life. People are investing hundreds of THOUSANDS of dollars in a premier education with the expectation (SET BY BIGLAW FIRMS OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS) that if they get a 2L job, they will most probably get an offer. Market forces created this expectation, no market forces are changing. There WILL be some conversation about it.

Last, 81, if you don't want to hear the conversations of people who are afraid of their careers being destroyed by the economy, GO READ ANOTHER FUCKING SITE. I suggest www.olddouchebaglawyer.com

81,

The firms are the ones that give summer associates the "unreasonable" expectations. The firms know that summers have not passed the bar and have virtually no legal experience, yet they still go on and on about offers being for summer associate to lose.

Law firms need to stop presenting themselves to recruits like they are anything but big businesses.

Well I agree with 81. Summer associates are being evaluated for permanent employment. They are not simply being entertained for 12 weeks on the firm's dime in order to remind them of how special they are.

While not denying for a minute that the firms themselves have created some of these expectations, the attitude of some SAs that simply showing up at the office at some point during the day is sufficient to guarantee an offer is delusional. I know that the SA evaluation forms at my firm are very detailed and that the majority of partners and senior associates who fill them out for the SAs they work with take them very seriously. Sloppy work product, disregard of deadlines and an attitude of entitlement (maybe partners are highly compensated, but they are spending THEIR money on YOU) do get noticed.

So yeah, the economy sucks and bad things are happening to some good people, but some percentage of those no-offers were, unfortunately, DESERVED.

Well 81 does have it right that you people do whine a lot. 82 sounds like a very angry teenager. Is the average age of law students decreasing rapidly or is society just doing a very bad job of raising children?

Being afraid of losing your career and ranting and raving like a baby are very different. Those that use their fear to actively find employment will find it. Those that spend their energy to lash out on internet sites like this will not find anything.

71: You might be the biggest moron on this thread yet. Why would I want to join law firm that makes $160k offers to associates that they don't have work for? If I were to ever make partner, that irresponsible decision would come out of MY pocket. Obviously, they should not have given them summer associate positions in the first place. However, given that they oversubscribed, I'd rather them not give out a bunch of offers and reduce the firms profitability.

71: You might be the biggest moron on this thread yet. Why would I want to join law firm that makes $160k offers to associates that they don't have work for? If I were to ever make partner, that irresponsible decision would come out of MY pocket. Obviously, they should not have given them summer associate positions in the first place. However, given that they oversubscribed, I'd rather them not give out a bunch of offers and reduce the firms profitability.

If you are trying to make partner, the only relevant indicator for a firm is PPP.

81, 84 and 85 = clearly the same person. Nice try.

ATL, did you ask Mr. Costa when DLA thought it might get around to making final decisions on all of its summers (since all reputable firms have already done that). Did you ask about specific offices (like New York) where allegations of no-offers were especially high? Or did you just report his spin verbatim in this post?

If Lat had been writing this post, DLA would have been dubbed "America's Most No-offering-est Law Firm."

86-87: 71 is a response to 67's puffery about how well DLA is doing. No part of it suggests that firms should give offers to summers that they don't have work for.

Perhaps you are the biggest moron on this thread yet.

89: 71 was not merely a response to 67's puffery. S/he was also suggesting that "No offers = Firm doing poorly", see below:

"The point is, firms that are doing well give offers to as many summers as possible in order to avoid the stigma attached to no-offering"
"It should not take a rocket scientist to understand that the firm is struggling."

My point is that no offers means nothing about how well the firm is doing overall. What it MEANS IS THAT THE FIRM OVERSUBSCRIBED, not that the firm is unprofitable, has bad partners, or is bad overall in any way. It means, very specifically, that the hiring partner and recruiters are morons and thought they would have much more work than they do. This is the same idiotic mentality that most law students have when they hear about ONE bad incident, or ONE asshole partner, and assume the ENTIRE firm is horrible. Firms are big organizations, with lots of different things going on. Of course the hiring partner should be fired for bringing in several more summer associates than he could make offers to. However, this one mistake does not extend beyond that.

In the case of DLA, their NYC summer class was around 30 this year, where as it had been about 15 the year before. So, even if they reject 25%, or 7-8 summers, they STILL handed out MORE offers this summer than last, which means the firm's growth is ACCELERATING. Do you see my point?

ATL IS SO BAD LATELY, we are commenting on a post from yesterday.

Point well taken, 90. But look at White & Case and Shearman & Sterling, two firms that WAY oversubscribed. W&C went from 40 summers in 2007 to 115 in 2008, and still found a way to offer nearly 100% of the class (similar story with S&S). DLA-NY told its interviewees that it was shooting for 25 SAs this year, meaning that at 31, it oversubscribed by 6.

White & Case NY found room for 75 extra summers, and DLA NY could not find room for an extra 7-8.

My point is this: no-offering a significant percentage of your summer class does say SOMETHING about the health of your firm when peer firms (that were also way oversubscribed) made full, or nearly full, offers.

#67,

Clearly you haven't talked to your whole summer class. 3 you KNOW of. I didn't summer at DLA and I also know of 3 (at the same school, no less).

Perhaps these are the only 3, and DLA thought it was better to kill their recruiting at one school than across the board. But I'm skeptical.

ATL, have you looked into Foley?

You should look into Sidley (LA). I heard they no offered a lot of associates. From what my friend tells me, it is a horrible, horrible summer experience.

93: I heard that that is precisely what they did; kill their recruiting at one school rather than spread it among many. Of course, again, they are very stupid, because every one and every school has now heard of this. Its not like students from different schools don't talk.

92: I certainly do admit it has SOMETHING to do with the health of the firm, in that they were expecting a growth of x%, and instead had a growth of less than x%. It also says something about the firm's management, in that they don't make good hiring decisions. I'm entirely on the same page with you there.

However, what I was saying was that a lot of the posters above were blowing things WAY out of propotion. In fact, despite all the idiots posting on this board, I am still not convinced it was any more than 3 summer associates that go no-offered. From the sources I know personally, it sounds like it is 3, and i have no reason to believe that it is anything more than that. My broader point was that people on this board make shit up and make extraordinarily poor arguments based on mindless speculation.

I will assume that 93 and 96 are speaking about DLA-NY because that office has certainly decimated future recruiting at one particular law school (a very high ranking one, at that).

96 - If you're so sure that it was only 3, then why don't you contact your classmates and find out? I could save you the trouble and tell you that I personally know of 6, and I have not spoken to nearly everyone. But you'd probably just accuse me of being an idiot who "makes shit up."

So, either find out for yourself or stop accusing other people of lying.

DLA Chicago no offered 2 summers. I don't get it. They have a small summer classes (across every city in the US) compared to your NY sweatshops who are 1/2 their size. The firm must be going downhill. Way to go World's Largest Law Firm!!!

Bryan Cave is a TTT law firm. A third third toilet

99, which office did you get no offered?

100, I would rather die than work at a TTT law firm. That place is disgusting. PPP is 600k and revenue per lawyer is like 400k. It is a complete shithole. You have to really be a 2nd tier gunner or a 1st tier loser to go there.

67, is the DLA's Hiring Partner trolling on ATL!!!!!!

ATL - Don't let DLA get away with that "our summer associate review is ongoing" BS. Keep checking in with them until you get a final number of no-offers. This is obviously a PR move designed to deflect the bad publicity until after fall recruiting.

DLA Piper: Everything Matters (except our summer associates)

101, you are a spoiled brat. You should probably stop talking about profits per partner and other statstics you know nothing about. Wait until you grow up and realize that clients don't grow on trees and that no matter what school you goto/went to, how many "big firms" supposedly wanted you, and what prestigous law schools you got into, it is hard work to bring in clients and keep them. Good luck you immature and ignorant law student.

DLA has a waitlist- recently interviewed one of their summers from a top school who was "offer-eligible." Sounded like a smart kid with bad luck. 7 or 8 out of 30 no-offered or offer-eligible.

DLA has a waitlist- recently interviewed one of their summers from a top school who was "offer-eligible." Sounded like a smart kid with bad luck. 7 or 8 out of 30 no-offered or offer-eligible.

I know for sure that DLA has a waitlist, and that people are getting completely blindsided, getting positive reviews throughout the summer, after repeatedly being told that there was enough room for every single summer associate!

Boy, if only people at the firms would open up here and give stories about why some of these summers got no offered... then we'd have some *good* SA stories....

Boy, if only people at the firms would open up here and give stories about why some of these summers got no offered... then we'd have some *good* SA stories....

DLA has no offered over many offices. Just heard that they no offered at least 1 in their Boston office sometime this month.

DLA has no offered over many offices. Just heard that they no offered at least 1 out of 5 in their Boston office sometime this month.

something sketchy is going on at the DLA-NY office for sure. drab, empty office with sulky looking workers. partners look pained, HR kept insisting SA reviews would be weekly so as to not "surprise" anyone when they didn't get an offer. they're definitely reading ATL and are trying to ward off rumors by conducting plenty o' SA callbacks with no SA offers.

something sketchy is going on at the DLA-NY office for sure. drab, empty office with sulky looking workers. partners look pained, HR kept insisting SA reviews would be weekly so as to not "surprise" anyone when they didn't get an offer. they're definitely reading ATL and are trying to ward off rumors by conducting plenty o' SA callbacks with no SA offers.

this is definitely going to hurt DLA's recruiting. everyone at my school that got a callback from them knows about it. several of those people really liked the firm otherwise, but with an uncertain economy, why risk it on a firm that has a rep of no-offers?