these pretzels are making me... unemployed.

Simpson has been really stingy with callbacks at CLS - not a good sign for the firm.

Simpson has been really stingy with callbacks at CLS - not a good sign for the firm.

"[A]pparently we now live in a socialist republic."

Elie, does this mean that you will triumphantly affix a red star to your chest and exhale a "finally," sighing in relief?

If things are bad at Harvard...

Commies don't like blacks. America all the way!

The tipster sounds like a royal douche. I'm glad he's not getting any callbacks.

First!

How much is related to Harvard's late OCI? If firms had a specific summer class target and people from CLS, NYU, Columbia, etc accepted at a higher % than expected, does Harvard suffer? In the past, things were golden enough the firms would be willing to just add to the class to get HLS kids, but maybe they are sticking to a stricter class size?

We don't need to worry about Simpson until KKR and Blackstone are in trouble. Unlike Cravath, they just judge on "fit" rather than GPA.

Dear Harvard students,

We had earlier OCI programs and took your jobs. Sorry.

Sincerely,

State school students with multiple v5 and v10 callbacks

Eeep.

oh, Harvard. White and Case is a mid-level firm? Proskauer is "blah?" These are both Vault50 firms, and more to the point, Vault20 firms in NY.

Yes, I chose a "better" firm over both W&C and PR, but mid-level? So, basically this year its kinda hard to get a job at the top ten firms? Got it. Thanks for the update.

12, Yet you are still bitter enough to make that post. The hate is strong with this one.

damn damn damn damn damn.

i really hoped elie had been shown the door over the weekend.

9 - Did it really take you 8 minutes to write "First!"?

White & Case midlevel?

Proskauer blah?

Woe is me.

Many GULC students at median and above who don't have a single offer yet. And our OCI was a month ago.

Yes, if you are at Harvard, where median can generally get you at least V20, then yes, White & Case is mid-level.

comments on simpson ca? risky to take?

This is also what happened at Michigan. Simpson was really stingy and only wanted Top 20 students. People got offers from V5 were dinged by V20 firms.

Great for me. 14/20 callbacks. Did 10 of them. Offers at 7, ding at 1, waiting to hear back from 2. Then again, I'm an EE at a T14 in around the top 1/3, so that helps.

I got V10 offers and denied from Wilkie and Fried Frank. I think firms are being more careful in only extending offers to those who will likely accept.

23 here: I should add that my callback ding was from the lowest Vault firm I interviewed with.

OCI at Yale seems to be going well... Ive received call backs from just about everyone but Wachtell.. and I would say I am pretty middle of the road in regards to Hs v Ps. Simpson interviewed on Friday (and maybe still today) so I dont know if people have heard back.

Basically, life is not particularly good for Harvard 2Ls these days: 1) OCI Call Backs have all been doled out to other (earlier) schools' students; and 2) the H-P-LP-F system leaves current harvard 2L's at a disadvantage (in terms of misery) to their younger classmates.

I'm in the top 10 people in my class, and OCIs were not going well at all. Firms that said they were interviewing 3Ls would only interview one of them, and I think they were just doing it to get an idea of the 3L supply.

But I got a federal clerkship, so I'm not really worried.

Yes, if you are at Harvard, where median can generally get you at least V20, then yes, White & Case is mid-level.
__________________________________________

Well, apparently it isn't, if they aren't giving callbacks to Harvard students. It sounds like somebody needs to turn off the Oxygen "Legally Blonde" marathon, and get in touch with reality . . .

#23, 70% CALLBACK rate, and you're bragging?! That seems unreasonably low.

Lean year for this T14, lots of problems out of the region. In fact, some regional employers are even restricting returning 1Ls to limited (2 week) summers.

25, they are just gaming their US News ranking.

/wait, what?

People still have offers. Maybe fewer than in years past. But people are definitely going to be able to pay back their loans.

Mystal got a call back from his mother.

Balls Deep.

"Simpson has been really stingy with callbacks at CLS - not a good sign for the firm."

maybe not a good sign for CLS?

It's not surprising that it's hard to get a callback at White & Case this year, and it may have little to do with the economy. W&C ended up with 113 summers in 2008 (its largest class ever by about 50%), and made offers to all but three. Even if the economy were booming, recruiting for the class of 2009 would be less than robust, even at Harvard.

The tipster sounds like an entitled douchebag. It's not the economy, HLSers. It's your horrific personalities and overinflated sense of self.

24 - agreed. offer guarding seems prevalent; firms don't want to accidentally end up with big classes that they have to no-offer because too many took summer positions.

I did OCI last year. I got offers from 3 V5 firms, but I still got dinged by a bunch of the "lesser" guys. That's just how OCI has always worked.

I agree with 36. The fact of the matter is that the big firms only want Harvard, CLS and Yale to attract clients. Once they get these grads they lock them up in thier offices for three years. They wouldn't dare let a client interact with the socially inept.

30: I'll break it down a bit more. 11 of those came from a non-campus interview program, and 4 of those were dings. For my on campus program, I did 9 more and got 2 dings. Since you probably have no idea how it works for IP, I'll put it in terms that you can understand: I have offers from all the firms regarded as tops in IP, and some of them also happen to be V10 firms.

I'm not bragging, I was just showing my stats. But if you think a 70% callback rate is low, then you're a moron.

i think penn is doing well, but not nearly as well as last year. im a 3L and im pretty sure all but a handful had offers by this point last year. this year, there are definitely more than a handful still floundering.

To summarize:

Robin: You've travelled ten thousand miles to save my life and then leave me to be butchered?!

Azeem: I fulfill my vows when I choose.

Robin: And that does not include prayertimes or mealtimes or any time I've spent three years and over $100,000 of my parents' money to get a law degree from an elite institution that doesn't provide me with any useful legal skills and am unable to get a job at a V10 firm and have to settle with a blah V50 that's still going to pay me a boatload of money but won't be as impressive to my douchebag prestige-whore friends?

Azeem: You whine like a mule. You're still alive.

Duncan: A curse on moors and saracens. Islam=TTT.

38 is spot on. I don't get the panic.....

I only got one V10 callback, but i was rejected by v100 firms and even smaller ones....... this was the case for pretty much everyone. People who got callbacks at Wachtell/Cravath/Sullivan, who would get rejected at Stroock were pretty normal.

I'm interviewing from HLS in Chicago and I haven't seen any sign the economy is hurting recruiting.

Everybody I know that interviewed at Mayer Chicago has gotten a callback.

All but 1 among people I know got a callback at Katten Chicago.

Most people have gotten callbacks and Jenner Chicago.

Latham/Jones Day/Sidley/Kirkland/Winston/McDermott all have yet to do callbacks (Sidley/Winston/McDermott haven't interviewed yet).

Basically, as far as I can tell, Chicago is doing just fine at HLS.

This is a pretty silly tip.
Everyone I know at HLS is batting about .900-.950. None of them have stellar grades. They're just good people with some professional experience and good work ethics.

Harvard students are worthless. They may make good clerks, but I have yet to see one actually perform in a real setting and do anything right. Oh and they are snobs.

I'm first at a state school in the twenties and got dinged all throughout OCI. Couldn't even get a callback with some bottom v100 firms.

Scary times to be on the job market.

Cardozo 2L, top 15% of class, 2ndary Journal: 13 screening, 2 callback, 2 dings. I'm really screwed :(

Harvard kids with toxic personalities are struggling. Harvard kids with average grades and any non-crappy personality are doing just fine.

I only know one person with no call backs and the fact that he didn't get any callbacks was reassuring to me because he is a gigantic D-bag.

IP is alive and well.

45: How many people do you know? Two? I'm sure that people at the bottom 50%, even at Harvard, do not bat nearly those numbers.

44:
More than 1 people dinged from Katten (I know of 4); I agree with Jenner, but I know folks dinged from Mayer.

Kirkland callbacks have already gone out. But I agree, Chicago seems pretty much the same as usual.

When the credit markets freeze, IP will be one of the first things to go.

Anyone else hear rumors of Proskauer layoffs in the works? I'm thinking about accepting there over higher ranked firms because of the entertainment practice, but a few friends of mine that are 1rst and 2nd years there have indicated that big time layoffs may be coming soon.

oh no! not chadbourne!

It's also possible that the new NALP guidelines (45 days to accept an offer) are letting firms be more choosy early on, because they know that by mid-October they'll have a really good sense of their summers. On the other hand, I've also heard a lot of firms are reducing the size of their summer class.

what about POWELL GOLDSTEIN?

W&C was eaten by Judge Halverson as she mistook the firm for White Castle. I am not positive but am pretty confident this is why callbacks have been scant of late from this firm.

California seems to be doing fine, though Gibson Dunn has cut back marginally in several offices. Our T30 west coast school seems to be getting plenty of offers from Latham, Gibson, O'Melveny, Irell, etc.

A lot of students self-selected out of New York interviews, but the usual suspects are still making lots of offers (Davis Polk, Cravath, Skadden, etc.). Simpson Thatcher cancelled completely.

I think I'm going to accept my Heller Ehrman offer tomorrow.

53 -- you have no idea what you're talking about. When there is a downturn, companies see their IP as an additional source of revenue and look to license and sue for infringement more often. When there is an upturn, they are less cost-sensitive and litigate more. No matter what, IP is usually solid.

chuck norris's penis has no spare time.

Wachovia being sold means Charlotte is fucked. Alston, Parker Poe, Moore Van Allen, Womble, Mayer Brown, McGuireWoods and Robinson Bradshaw just lost a shit load of business. Layoffs, partners jumping ship etc to follow.

You're an idiot for going to Proskauer if you have better options. Garbage firm with a surprisingly effective PR person. I'm not sure about the layoffs, but that firm will not maintain its status over the next few years.

54 - Proskauer is planning on hiring the same number of summers as they did last year (~70), so I wouldn't be concerned about layoffs. Also, they announced that they are opening up 2 new offices earlier this month, so they're clearly not hurting.

You're an idiot for going to Proskauer if you have better options. Garbage firm with a surprisingly effective PR person. I'm not sure about the layoffs, but that firm will not maintain its status over the next few years.

45 -- 2Ls at Harvard are not batting .900-.950

You're an idiot for going to Proskauer if you have better options. Garbage firm with a surprisingly effective PR person. I'm not sure about the layoffs, but that firm will not maintain its status over the next few years.

I'm at a T25, 20%, LR, and went a solid 4-26 at OCI's with firms in my secondary market, and I'm a pretty socially adept person. Did a mass mailing campaign, and netted five callbacks within a week, most with phone screens. Either I'm extremely ugly, or secondary markets are really taking a hit in my school's market.

At my school, it's very slim pickings. Lots of folks haven't secured offers.

53, you'll need to explain that one a little more.

Things seem to be going well for the top half at Northwestern (and really well for the very top), but things are much less consistent below the median.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I'm in the top 5% at a TTT regional private school in CA, and I've received callbacks from 90%+ of my OCI firms, 3 V20 offers, and I have 2 V10 callbacks upcoming. All have come from firms in major CA markets. Granted, my experience is not typical, but if you're not socially inept and have decent grades and experience, there should be nothing to worry about.

In San Fran, most firms have seriously cut back their summer programs, many by half.

I have received and accepted an offer, but many of my classmates are getting ding after ding...it looks like many of us won't have a home this summer, and people are (appropriately) freaking out.

seems like most DC firms are cutting their classes by 1/3 or more.

No problems yet as HLS 2L looking at Chicago. Interviewed with 8 of the top Chicago firms so far, have heard back from 4 firms and got callbacks at each one.

Charlotte Islam = TTT

42: Worst comment ever. If you were trying to be funny, you failed miserably. Are you related to Elie?

72 - This is true. It seems like the only people getting jobs at top SF firms have Vault 5 credentials

#71, this "social ineptness" crap has to end. That's always the mantra of successful (and spiteful) applicants in describing their success over classmates (and similar candidates). I've had a good OCI season with multiple prospects at V5 and V20 firms, but many of my classmates have not had a good experience. And I don't think hardly any of that can be chalked up to the "socially inept" boogeyman. The fact is that firms are perceiving the next few years to be tough times and are hiring accordingly. This is entirely fair and reasonable, but it means that students at all law schools will have more trouble finding positions. This may be more true as you go down the rankings, but no one will be in as good of shape as he would have been last year.

42=HLS 2L with no offers.

Screw this. I'm going to Somalia where I can make V-10 money as a pirate hijacking ships and burying my saber into some sweet sweet east African booty.

Balls Deep.

73: Which DC firms are you talking with? I've been interviewing at the top firms, and they all have said they expect to have the same class size.

So basically no hope for a 1L to get an SA position right?

71: Yes things are going well for you but that does not mean that anyone who is not "socially inept" with "decent grades and experience" should be fine. You're sticking your head in the sand. Glad you got an ego boost from posting your success in the comments to this article, way to go.

Who's the arrogant little Harvard snot that wrote this in? W&C mid-level? PR is blah? Perhaps Harvard OCI is going poorly because there's plenty of snotty little gunners that behave like this during the interview season.

I know a good handful of otherwise well qualified people at UVa who are striking out. It's scary.

HLS law students are the most insufferable people on earth. They usually mellow out when they realize nobody in practice gives a fuck about them.

OCI is a crapshot. Granted, I go to Brooklyn Law School so there are some school snobs out there at firms but I was dinged at quite a number of lower V100 firms ( a mix of V20-100) and got offers from two V10 firms.

I don't buy the socially inept argument at all. It really depends on who your interviewers are.

The tipster does sound an entitled brat though.

Keker did not invite me for a callback. Fucking economy...

Joking aside, things are tougher than normal at SLS, but everyone has at least one offer lined up.

What's the Bratislava market looking like for people? I've gotten 3 callbacks out of 5 firms.

9 is bestowed the latest ever 'first' award. Cograds.

Clearly some people aren't worried but for those who are: consider non V100 firms that don't OCI at your school. Pay is almost as good, hours are better and your start date probably won't get pushed back 6 mos. That and you might do something other than doc review. You can search for firms on Martindale.

We (AmLaw 100 firm) have stopped OCI at Harvard going forward because everyone we interview from there is a complete d-bag and we end up just wasting our time and getting far better candidates from the other Boston schools. They all seem to have such a sense of entitlement. I know a lot of people who wouldnt hire most Harvard Law grads to take out their garbage, but have to continue recruiting there for political reasons.

-- Not a Harvard reject.

Ample callbacks and offers at Illinois.

Methinks the tipster expects his Harvard degree to get him infinite callbacks, despite the fact that he's a douchebag, stutters, wore a print tie depicting 9/11, and has raging Halitosis.

Law firms don't care about that stuff, right? They just want Harvard grads, all else be damned. Right? Oh shit they don't?

At Loyola, Los Angeles (Not Loyola2L thank you very much) and top 5% of my class.

20 screening
12 callbacks
Multiple offers including V10 firms.

However, my friends outside the top 10% are not faring very well this year at all.

53- very very wrong. that is all

Our firm is still doing callbacks (not sure how many we are actually hiring but we are doing at least 4 second rounders a day, usually more) but we aren't taking them out to lunch anymore. But at least we have jobs to offer!

Miami and ATL appear to be cutting way back...miami especially...

Any thoughts on STB's palo alto office? Good place to work?

Anyone know the Chicago firm callback hotels?

41, Penn is actually doing exceptionally well. You'd expect the top firms to turn away completely from state schools during a crisis like this.

UVA is letting all of their first years go because they forgot to sign in at the beginning of class. Mass hysteria has begun plaguing Charlottesville. The great Popped Collar Riot of 2008 has begun.

GULC4Life

Dear Harvard Law Students:

I'd like to introduce you to Document Review.

Sincerely,

Your Future

73 - I heard the same from a few DC firms. White & Case (DC) loosely indicated they expect to cut their summer class by about 1/3 this year.

I don't get it. My school is barely T60 and I have callbacks from two V10 firms and already a bunch of offers from V20-V50 firms. Maybe I'm less socially inept than the HLS folks, but that would mean things have changed radically for me.

chuck norris's penis has no spare time.

non law review 2L at UPenn State doing fine in NY. 22 for 25 at OCI. 5 for 8 on offers, 3 v15. still waiting on 2, one ding.

"The Great Popped Collar Revolt of 2008 has begun..."

Winner.

Top 1/3 at MVP (west coast firms)-- 20 interviews/did 4 out of 10 callbacks/4 offers

71 Doesn't know what the fuss is about. Umm... people aren't getting jobs. Where have you been for the past several months? I hope your firms fire you once they learn what a douche you are

You all focus wayyyy to much on Vault rankings. Are these V10 firms that you have offers from even from their HQs, or from satellites? Are you looking at the practice areas where they are considered strong? Do you even know?

104: Your school probably offers real classes and you learn a bit of law in your 3 years. Harvard (and other T5 schools) tend to just offer crap like "Philosophy of Jurisprudence" or "Economic Analysis of Jurisprudence Philosophy."

Damn, Harvard just went full retard. I thought Harvard was smart enough to know you never go full retard. Sucks to be Harvard.

Halverson Balls Deep

110 is right. Vault only matters for, maybe, NYC. The vault nonsense must stop for other regions of the country.

Harvard wants to be a big dick player...swingin past the knees.

Michigan 2L here. Have talked to 25 people or so, all of whom have at least one offer. I have had success all over the place, including at a good number of V10 firms. Journal, but no law review; top 20-25%ish. While there is some evidence of a difference this year, I really don't know anyone who hasn't got at least a few callbacks and at least one offer.

71 is right. Most Harvard grads who dont get jobs must be total f-ing retards (literally). You're guaranteed interviews, and basically guarateed offers, even if you're ranked last in your class at Harvard UNLESS you cant control your drooling, wandering lazy eye, and/or general douchebaggery at your interviews. Unfortunately for many Harvard grads, that is all but impossible.

Simpson seems like they do a very good job of selecting for "fit." At CLS, they were widely regarded as by far the nicest and most down-to-earth place.

Davis Polk was also seen as nice, but a little more passive aggressive and stuffy. Cleary was nice, but also nerdy (which can be a plus or a minus). Debevoise was also very charismatic and they're great at litigation.

Cleary is hiring the same size class as the last few years and is hiring 3Ls too.

111, 104 here. You're probably right. But at my school we have plenty of junk too, like Recycling Law, Vegetarianism Law, and How to Feel Good About Myself While Accomplishing Nothing Law. I might not be smart enough to get into HLS, but I know enough to avoid those classes as until I have an actual job.

111, 104 here. You're probably right. But at my school we have plenty of junk too, like Recycling Law, Vegetarianism Law, and How to Feel Good About Myself While Accomplishing Nothing Law. I might not be smart enough to get into HLS, but I know enough to avoid those classes as until I have an actual job.

HLS 2L's definitely aren't faring especially well in DC. I've got 2 callbacks from 8 interviews (though no explicit dings yet), and everyone else I know seems to have similar numbers so far...

Any thoughts on STB's palo alto office? Good place to work?

112 for the win!

121- sounds about right. Lots of interviews, not a lot of callbacks. Par for the course for most Harvard Law students in a bad economy where attitude and personality count and firms aren't just trying to fill desks with warm bodies and beef up the number of Ivy grads they employ.

99--stupid question, but I'll answer.

Skadden is putting you up in the Trump Towers this year.
Sidley is at the Ritz.

#1 in my class at state school ranked in the low 30s. 100% OCI callback success (Skadden, Sidley, Kirkland, Jones Day, Greenberg, Winston, Mayer Brown + others). 100% offers from callbacks accepted.

somebody call the WHAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE!!!!

Having Harvard on your resume is not enough to work at White & Case. You also need interpersonal skills and perhaps some functional knowledge of the law.

HLS Student != lack of interpersonal skills or terrible personality.

You have to appreciate the irony of everyone making such trollish posts about the personalities of HLS students.

I saw a major difference in success between law week and 2-3 weeks ago. I went 5 for 5 on interviews I did the week of the 8th and 15th, but already have 3 dings from firms I met with last week, and no word from 3.

Fn CNN. I hate wolf blitzer

129 - correlationships smart guy

Michigan has created its own law firm: law students with at least a 2.9 can join the Wolverine Law Firm Summer Associate class, as long as they don't participate in OCI.

126, nice job accepting 100% of your offers. I'm sure the folks at NALP will just LOVE that one.

GULC kids had 100% callbacks from Jacoby and Meyers. Suck it, UVA!

Halverson Balls Deep

Hey 115. Michigan 2L who has no offers here. Call me and I'll suck your dick for money. And maybe lunch, if you can spare.

I looked great on paper when I was doing HLS OCI three years ago -- grades that put me in the top 10% when I graduated, plus Law Review. I got callbacks and offers from every highly ranked and boutique firm I interviewed with, but I didn't even get a callback from most not-as-highly-sought-after firm that I interviewed with. It seemed pretty clear that it was about yield protection.

Guys in my high school didn't get call backs from mid-level firms all the time. It was no big deal.