these pretzels are making me... unemployed.

Simpson has been really stingy with callbacks at CLS - not a good sign for the firm.

Simpson has been really stingy with callbacks at CLS - not a good sign for the firm.

"[A]pparently we now live in a socialist republic."

Elie, does this mean that you will triumphantly affix a red star to your chest and exhale a "finally," sighing in relief?

If things are bad at Harvard...

Commies don't like blacks. America all the way!

The tipster sounds like a royal douche. I'm glad he's not getting any callbacks.

First!

How much is related to Harvard's late OCI? If firms had a specific summer class target and people from CLS, NYU, Columbia, etc accepted at a higher % than expected, does Harvard suffer? In the past, things were golden enough the firms would be willing to just add to the class to get HLS kids, but maybe they are sticking to a stricter class size?

We don't need to worry about Simpson until KKR and Blackstone are in trouble. Unlike Cravath, they just judge on "fit" rather than GPA.

Dear Harvard students,

We had earlier OCI programs and took your jobs. Sorry.

Sincerely,

State school students with multiple v5 and v10 callbacks

Eeep.

oh, Harvard. White and Case is a mid-level firm? Proskauer is "blah?" These are both Vault50 firms, and more to the point, Vault20 firms in NY.

Yes, I chose a "better" firm over both W&C and PR, but mid-level? So, basically this year its kinda hard to get a job at the top ten firms? Got it. Thanks for the update.

12, Yet you are still bitter enough to make that post. The hate is strong with this one.

damn damn damn damn damn.

i really hoped elie had been shown the door over the weekend.

9 - Did it really take you 8 minutes to write "First!"?

White & Case midlevel?

Proskauer blah?

Woe is me.

Many GULC students at median and above who don't have a single offer yet. And our OCI was a month ago.

Yes, if you are at Harvard, where median can generally get you at least V20, then yes, White & Case is mid-level.

comments on simpson ca? risky to take?

This is also what happened at Michigan. Simpson was really stingy and only wanted Top 20 students. People got offers from V5 were dinged by V20 firms.

Great for me. 14/20 callbacks. Did 10 of them. Offers at 7, ding at 1, waiting to hear back from 2. Then again, I'm an EE at a T14 in around the top 1/3, so that helps.

I got V10 offers and denied from Wilkie and Fried Frank. I think firms are being more careful in only extending offers to those who will likely accept.

23 here: I should add that my callback ding was from the lowest Vault firm I interviewed with.

OCI at Yale seems to be going well... Ive received call backs from just about everyone but Wachtell.. and I would say I am pretty middle of the road in regards to Hs v Ps. Simpson interviewed on Friday (and maybe still today) so I dont know if people have heard back.

Basically, life is not particularly good for Harvard 2Ls these days: 1) OCI Call Backs have all been doled out to other (earlier) schools' students; and 2) the H-P-LP-F system leaves current harvard 2L's at a disadvantage (in terms of misery) to their younger classmates.

I'm in the top 10 people in my class, and OCIs were not going well at all. Firms that said they were interviewing 3Ls would only interview one of them, and I think they were just doing it to get an idea of the 3L supply.

But I got a federal clerkship, so I'm not really worried.

Yes, if you are at Harvard, where median can generally get you at least V20, then yes, White & Case is mid-level.
__________________________________________

Well, apparently it isn't, if they aren't giving callbacks to Harvard students. It sounds like somebody needs to turn off the Oxygen "Legally Blonde" marathon, and get in touch with reality . . .

#23, 70% CALLBACK rate, and you're bragging?! That seems unreasonably low.

Lean year for this T14, lots of problems out of the region. In fact, some regional employers are even restricting returning 1Ls to limited (2 week) summers.

25, they are just gaming their US News ranking.

/wait, what?

People still have offers. Maybe fewer than in years past. But people are definitely going to be able to pay back their loans.

Mystal got a call back from his mother.

Balls Deep.

"Simpson has been really stingy with callbacks at CLS - not a good sign for the firm."

maybe not a good sign for CLS?

It's not surprising that it's hard to get a callback at White & Case this year, and it may have little to do with the economy. W&C ended up with 113 summers in 2008 (its largest class ever by about 50%), and made offers to all but three. Even if the economy were booming, recruiting for the class of 2009 would be less than robust, even at Harvard.

The tipster sounds like an entitled douchebag. It's not the economy, HLSers. It's your horrific personalities and overinflated sense of self.

24 - agreed. offer guarding seems prevalent; firms don't want to accidentally end up with big classes that they have to no-offer because too many took summer positions.

I did OCI last year. I got offers from 3 V5 firms, but I still got dinged by a bunch of the "lesser" guys. That's just how OCI has always worked.

I agree with 36. The fact of the matter is that the big firms only want Harvard, CLS and Yale to attract clients. Once they get these grads they lock them up in thier offices for three years. They wouldn't dare let a client interact with the socially inept.

30: I'll break it down a bit more. 11 of those came from a non-campus interview program, and 4 of those were dings. For my on campus program, I did 9 more and got 2 dings. Since you probably have no idea how it works for IP, I'll put it in terms that you can understand: I have offers from all the firms regarded as tops in IP, and some of them also happen to be V10 firms.

I'm not bragging, I was just showing my stats. But if you think a 70% callback rate is low, then you're a moron.

i think penn is doing well, but not nearly as well as last year. im a 3L and im pretty sure all but a handful had offers by this point last year. this year, there are definitely more than a handful still floundering.

To summarize:

Robin: You've travelled ten thousand miles to save my life and then leave me to be butchered?!

Azeem: I fulfill my vows when I choose.

Robin: And that does not include prayertimes or mealtimes or any time I've spent three years and over $100,000 of my parents' money to get a law degree from an elite institution that doesn't provide me with any useful legal skills and am unable to get a job at a V10 firm and have to settle with a blah V50 that's still going to pay me a boatload of money but won't be as impressive to my douchebag prestige-whore friends?

Azeem: You whine like a mule. You're still alive.

Duncan: A curse on moors and saracens. Islam=TTT.

38 is spot on. I don't get the panic.....

I only got one V10 callback, but i was rejected by v100 firms and even smaller ones....... this was the case for pretty much everyone. People who got callbacks at Wachtell/Cravath/Sullivan, who would get rejected at Stroock were pretty normal.

I'm interviewing from HLS in Chicago and I haven't seen any sign the economy is hurting recruiting.

Everybody I know that interviewed at Mayer Chicago has gotten a callback.

All but 1 among people I know got a callback at Katten Chicago.

Most people have gotten callbacks and Jenner Chicago.

Latham/Jones Day/Sidley/Kirkland/Winston/McDermott all have yet to do callbacks (Sidley/Winston/McDermott haven't interviewed yet).

Basically, as far as I can tell, Chicago is doing just fine at HLS.

This is a pretty silly tip.
Everyone I know at HLS is batting about .900-.950. None of them have stellar grades. They're just good people with some professional experience and good work ethics.

Harvard students are worthless. They may make good clerks, but I have yet to see one actually perform in a real setting and do anything right. Oh and they are snobs.

I'm first at a state school in the twenties and got dinged all throughout OCI. Couldn't even get a callback with some bottom v100 firms.

Scary times to be on the job market.

Cardozo 2L, top 15% of class, 2ndary Journal: 13 screening, 2 callback, 2 dings. I'm really screwed :(

Harvard kids with toxic personalities are struggling. Harvard kids with average grades and any non-crappy personality are doing just fine.

I only know one person with no call backs and the fact that he didn't get any callbacks was reassuring to me because he is a gigantic D-bag.

IP is alive and well.

45: How many people do you know? Two? I'm sure that people at the bottom 50%, even at Harvard, do not bat nearly those numbers.

44:
More than 1 people dinged from Katten (I know of 4); I agree with Jenner, but I know folks dinged from Mayer.

Kirkland callbacks have already gone out. But I agree, Chicago seems pretty much the same as usual.

When the credit markets freeze, IP will be one of the first things to go.

Anyone else hear rumors of Proskauer layoffs in the works? I'm thinking about accepting there over higher ranked firms because of the entertainment practice, but a few friends of mine that are 1rst and 2nd years there have indicated that big time layoffs may be coming soon.

oh no! not chadbourne!

It's also possible that the new NALP guidelines (45 days to accept an offer) are letting firms be more choosy early on, because they know that by mid-October they'll have a really good sense of their summers. On the other hand, I've also heard a lot of firms are reducing the size of their summer class.

what about POWELL GOLDSTEIN?

W&C was eaten by Judge Halverson as she mistook the firm for White Castle. I am not positive but am pretty confident this is why callbacks have been scant of late from this firm.

California seems to be doing fine, though Gibson Dunn has cut back marginally in several offices. Our T30 west coast school seems to be getting plenty of offers from Latham, Gibson, O'Melveny, Irell, etc.

A lot of students self-selected out of New York interviews, but the usual suspects are still making lots of offers (Davis Polk, Cravath, Skadden, etc.). Simpson Thatcher cancelled completely.

I think I'm going to accept my Heller Ehrman offer tomorrow.

53 -- you have no idea what you're talking about. When there is a downturn, companies see their IP as an additional source of revenue and look to license and sue for infringement more often. When there is an upturn, they are less cost-sensitive and litigate more. No matter what, IP is usually solid.

chuck norris's penis has no spare time.

Wachovia being sold means Charlotte is fucked. Alston, Parker Poe, Moore Van Allen, Womble, Mayer Brown, McGuireWoods and Robinson Bradshaw just lost a shit load of business. Layoffs, partners jumping ship etc to follow.

You're an idiot for going to Proskauer if you have better options. Garbage firm with a surprisingly effective PR person. I'm not sure about the layoffs, but that firm will not maintain its status over the next few years.

54 - Proskauer is planning on hiring the same number of summers as they did last year (~70), so I wouldn't be concerned about layoffs. Also, they announced that they are opening up 2 new offices earlier this month, so they're clearly not hurting.

You're an idiot for going to Proskauer if you have better options. Garbage firm with a surprisingly effective PR person. I'm not sure about the layoffs, but that firm will not maintain its status over the next few years.

45 -- 2Ls at Harvard are not batting .900-.950

You're an idiot for going to Proskauer if you have better options. Garbage firm with a surprisingly effective PR person. I'm not sure about the layoffs, but that firm will not maintain its status over the next few years.

I'm at a T25, 20%, LR, and went a solid 4-26 at OCI's with firms in my secondary market, and I'm a pretty socially adept person. Did a mass mailing campaign, and netted five callbacks within a week, most with phone screens. Either I'm extremely ugly, or secondary markets are really taking a hit in my school's market.

At my school, it's very slim pickings. Lots of folks haven't secured offers.

53, you'll need to explain that one a little more.

Things seem to be going well for the top half at Northwestern (and really well for the very top), but things are much less consistent below the median.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I'm in the top 5% at a TTT regional private school in CA, and I've received callbacks from 90%+ of my OCI firms, 3 V20 offers, and I have 2 V10 callbacks upcoming. All have come from firms in major CA markets. Granted, my experience is not typical, but if you're not socially inept and have decent grades and experience, there should be nothing to worry about.

In San Fran, most firms have seriously cut back their summer programs, many by half.

I have received and accepted an offer, but many of my classmates are getting ding after ding...it looks like many of us won't have a home this summer, and people are (appropriately) freaking out.

seems like most DC firms are cutting their classes by 1/3 or more.

No problems yet as HLS 2L looking at Chicago. Interviewed with 8 of the top Chicago firms so far, have heard back from 4 firms and got callbacks at each one.

Charlotte Islam = TTT

42: Worst comment ever. If you were trying to be funny, you failed miserably. Are you related to Elie?

72 - This is true. It seems like the only people getting jobs at top SF firms have Vault 5 credentials

#71, this "social ineptness" crap has to end. That's always the mantra of successful (and spiteful) applicants in describing their success over classmates (and similar candidates). I've had a good OCI season with multiple prospects at V5 and V20 firms, but many of my classmates have not had a good experience. And I don't think hardly any of that can be chalked up to the "socially inept" boogeyman. The fact is that firms are perceiving the next few years to be tough times and are hiring accordingly. This is entirely fair and reasonable, but it means that students at all law schools will have more trouble finding positions. This may be more true as you go down the rankings, but no one will be in as good of shape as he would have been last year.

42=HLS 2L with no offers.

Screw this. I'm going to Somalia where I can make V-10 money as a pirate hijacking ships and burying my saber into some sweet sweet east African booty.

Balls Deep.

73: Which DC firms are you talking with? I've been interviewing at the top firms, and they all have said they expect to have the same class size.

So basically no hope for a 1L to get an SA position right?

71: Yes things are going well for you but that does not mean that anyone who is not "socially inept" with "decent grades and experience" should be fine. You're sticking your head in the sand. Glad you got an ego boost from posting your success in the comments to this article, way to go.

Who's the arrogant little Harvard snot that wrote this in? W&C mid-level? PR is blah? Perhaps Harvard OCI is going poorly because there's plenty of snotty little gunners that behave like this during the interview season.

I know a good handful of otherwise well qualified people at UVa who are striking out. It's scary.

HLS law students are the most insufferable people on earth. They usually mellow out when they realize nobody in practice gives a fuck about them.

OCI is a crapshot. Granted, I go to Brooklyn Law School so there are some school snobs out there at firms but I was dinged at quite a number of lower V100 firms ( a mix of V20-100) and got offers from two V10 firms.

I don't buy the socially inept argument at all. It really depends on who your interviewers are.

The tipster does sound an entitled brat though.

Keker did not invite me for a callback. Fucking economy...

Joking aside, things are tougher than normal at SLS, but everyone has at least one offer lined up.

What's the Bratislava market looking like for people? I've gotten 3 callbacks out of 5 firms.

9 is bestowed the latest ever 'first' award. Cograds.

Clearly some people aren't worried but for those who are: consider non V100 firms that don't OCI at your school. Pay is almost as good, hours are better and your start date probably won't get pushed back 6 mos. That and you might do something other than doc review. You can search for firms on Martindale.

We (AmLaw 100 firm) have stopped OCI at Harvard going forward because everyone we interview from there is a complete d-bag and we end up just wasting our time and getting far better candidates from the other Boston schools. They all seem to have such a sense of entitlement. I know a lot of people who wouldnt hire most Harvard Law grads to take out their garbage, but have to continue recruiting there for political reasons.

-- Not a Harvard reject.

Ample callbacks and offers at Illinois.

Methinks the tipster expects his Harvard degree to get him infinite callbacks, despite the fact that he's a douchebag, stutters, wore a print tie depicting 9/11, and has raging Halitosis.

Law firms don't care about that stuff, right? They just want Harvard grads, all else be damned. Right? Oh shit they don't?

At Loyola, Los Angeles (Not Loyola2L thank you very much) and top 5% of my class.

20 screening
12 callbacks
Multiple offers including V10 firms.

However, my friends outside the top 10% are not faring very well this year at all.

53- very very wrong. that is all

Our firm is still doing callbacks (not sure how many we are actually hiring but we are doing at least 4 second rounders a day, usually more) but we aren't taking them out to lunch anymore. But at least we have jobs to offer!

Miami and ATL appear to be cutting way back...miami especially...

Any thoughts on STB's palo alto office? Good place to work?

Anyone know the Chicago firm callback hotels?

41, Penn is actually doing exceptionally well. You'd expect the top firms to turn away completely from state schools during a crisis like this.

UVA is letting all of their first years go because they forgot to sign in at the beginning of class. Mass hysteria has begun plaguing Charlottesville. The great Popped Collar Riot of 2008 has begun.

GULC4Life

Dear Harvard Law Students:

I'd like to introduce you to Document Review.

Sincerely,

Your Future

73 - I heard the same from a few DC firms. White & Case (DC) loosely indicated they expect to cut their summer class by about 1/3 this year.

I don't get it. My school is barely T60 and I have callbacks from two V10 firms and already a bunch of offers from V20-V50 firms. Maybe I'm less socially inept than the HLS folks, but that would mean things have changed radically for me.

chuck norris's penis has no spare time.

non law review 2L at UPenn State doing fine in NY. 22 for 25 at OCI. 5 for 8 on offers, 3 v15. still waiting on 2, one ding.

"The Great Popped Collar Revolt of 2008 has begun..."

Winner.

Top 1/3 at MVP (west coast firms)-- 20 interviews/did 4 out of 10 callbacks/4 offers

71 Doesn't know what the fuss is about. Umm... people aren't getting jobs. Where have you been for the past several months? I hope your firms fire you once they learn what a douche you are

You all focus wayyyy to much on Vault rankings. Are these V10 firms that you have offers from even from their HQs, or from satellites? Are you looking at the practice areas where they are considered strong? Do you even know?

104: Your school probably offers real classes and you learn a bit of law in your 3 years. Harvard (and other T5 schools) tend to just offer crap like "Philosophy of Jurisprudence" or "Economic Analysis of Jurisprudence Philosophy."

Damn, Harvard just went full retard. I thought Harvard was smart enough to know you never go full retard. Sucks to be Harvard.

Halverson Balls Deep

110 is right. Vault only matters for, maybe, NYC. The vault nonsense must stop for other regions of the country.

Harvard wants to be a big dick player...swingin past the knees.

Michigan 2L here. Have talked to 25 people or so, all of whom have at least one offer. I have had success all over the place, including at a good number of V10 firms. Journal, but no law review; top 20-25%ish. While there is some evidence of a difference this year, I really don't know anyone who hasn't got at least a few callbacks and at least one offer.

71 is right. Most Harvard grads who dont get jobs must be total f-ing retards (literally). You're guaranteed interviews, and basically guarateed offers, even if you're ranked last in your class at Harvard UNLESS you cant control your drooling, wandering lazy eye, and/or general douchebaggery at your interviews. Unfortunately for many Harvard grads, that is all but impossible.

Simpson seems like they do a very good job of selecting for "fit." At CLS, they were widely regarded as by far the nicest and most down-to-earth place.

Davis Polk was also seen as nice, but a little more passive aggressive and stuffy. Cleary was nice, but also nerdy (which can be a plus or a minus). Debevoise was also very charismatic and they're great at litigation.

Cleary is hiring the same size class as the last few years and is hiring 3Ls too.

111, 104 here. You're probably right. But at my school we have plenty of junk too, like Recycling Law, Vegetarianism Law, and How to Feel Good About Myself While Accomplishing Nothing Law. I might not be smart enough to get into HLS, but I know enough to avoid those classes as until I have an actual job.

111, 104 here. You're probably right. But at my school we have plenty of junk too, like Recycling Law, Vegetarianism Law, and How to Feel Good About Myself While Accomplishing Nothing Law. I might not be smart enough to get into HLS, but I know enough to avoid those classes as until I have an actual job.

HLS 2L's definitely aren't faring especially well in DC. I've got 2 callbacks from 8 interviews (though no explicit dings yet), and everyone else I know seems to have similar numbers so far...

Any thoughts on STB's palo alto office? Good place to work?

112 for the win!

121- sounds about right. Lots of interviews, not a lot of callbacks. Par for the course for most Harvard Law students in a bad economy where attitude and personality count and firms aren't just trying to fill desks with warm bodies and beef up the number of Ivy grads they employ.

99--stupid question, but I'll answer.

Skadden is putting you up in the Trump Towers this year.
Sidley is at the Ritz.

#1 in my class at state school ranked in the low 30s. 100% OCI callback success (Skadden, Sidley, Kirkland, Jones Day, Greenberg, Winston, Mayer Brown + others). 100% offers from callbacks accepted.

somebody call the WHAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE!!!!

Having Harvard on your resume is not enough to work at White & Case. You also need interpersonal skills and perhaps some functional knowledge of the law.

HLS Student != lack of interpersonal skills or terrible personality.

You have to appreciate the irony of everyone making such trollish posts about the personalities of HLS students.

I saw a major difference in success between law week and 2-3 weeks ago. I went 5 for 5 on interviews I did the week of the 8th and 15th, but already have 3 dings from firms I met with last week, and no word from 3.

Fn CNN. I hate wolf blitzer

129 - correlationships smart guy

Michigan has created its own law firm: law students with at least a 2.9 can join the Wolverine Law Firm Summer Associate class, as long as they don't participate in OCI.

126, nice job accepting 100% of your offers. I'm sure the folks at NALP will just LOVE that one.

GULC kids had 100% callbacks from Jacoby and Meyers. Suck it, UVA!

Halverson Balls Deep

Hey 115. Michigan 2L who has no offers here. Call me and I'll suck your dick for money. And maybe lunch, if you can spare.

I looked great on paper when I was doing HLS OCI three years ago -- grades that put me in the top 10% when I graduated, plus Law Review. I got callbacks and offers from every highly ranked and boutique firm I interviewed with, but I didn't even get a callback from most not-as-highly-sought-after firm that I interviewed with. It seemed pretty clear that it was about yield protection.

Guys in my high school didn't get call backs from mid-level firms all the time. It was no big deal.

Leaving aside the HLS part of this, I don't think we can deny that OCI is going less well than other years this year.

I'm at CLS - most people who did OCI have offers by now, but several don't. That's not the way it was for the current 3Ls.

My thoughts and experience are in line with 24. t20 school, top 20% w/ journal. I had 14 callbacks all within the V25 in NY. I ended up going on 9 of the 14 and took an offer at a V15 because I honestly was exhausted by the process and didn't think I would take any of the remaining firms over what I had if they panned out. Of those 9 however, I only received 3 offers. I was told that last year 67% of callbacks in NY resulted in offers. I could be inept, but since I had around a 70% callback rate, I don't think that's likely. Additionally, almost none of my friends have offers. I really think the firms are trying to exercise more control by only extending offers to those they are certain are going to accept.

Everyone I've talked to at NU is doing great. I think having OCI before the shit really hit the fan has given us a leg up.

OCI at GULC this year was like Lord of the Flies.

DC firms that are not dependent on the NY office don't seem to be cutting back.

I might not be smart enough to get into HLS, but I know enough to avoid those classes as until I have an actual job.
__________________________________________

You're CLEARLY quite smart, r119. Clearly.

135-
Make sure you guard the subway sandwich you'll get closely!

The Wall St. crash is definitely causing firms to hire less. I had 10 call-backs. I received offers from all seven firms where I interviewed in early September. I interviewed with three firms in late September. Dings from two, still waiting on the third. And the late-September firms are less selective than the firms where I have offers.

Any thoughts on Kaye Scholer and Goodwin (nyc) for lit?

my firm will pretty much take anyone from HYS

133, I think 126 meant to say that he has gotten an offer from every callback that he accepted. Not that he has accepted every offer he got.

Sometimes my friends from Southie and I wander up to Cambridge and ritualistically beat Harvard kids with bats and then leave notes asking "How you like dem apples?"

Suck it, Mystal.

I have call backs at three V-ginas.

-Chuck Norris' penis

Mexicans = TTT

122 - great place to work. I am a 3L and spent last summer there. I loved it.

Chuck Norris' SCROTUS to EIC!

Anyone know anything about Hogan DC or Cleary DC?

150 - great place to work. I am a 3L and spent last summer there. I loved it.

152 -- you're an idiot. You think your summer is a good way to evaluate if a firm is a good place to work?

Everyone I've talked to at Northwestern is doing great. I guess having OCI before the sh*t really hit the fan gave us a leg up.

"and perhaps some functional knowledge of the law"

Idiot.

It's hard out there if you're not T10 or at the very top echelon of your class in a T25, probably 15% or so.

Keep in mind that a lot of the hiring process was not anticipating this utter catastrophe that has occured in September. This has been a very violent and destructive few weeks.

136 -- Are you sure it was "yield protection" and not that the "not-as-highly-sought-after firm[s]" just happen to value personality and attitude over hiring another warm Harvard body to do doc review?

Either way, I assume these "not-as-highly-sought-after firm[s]" became such when they rejected you.

154 - i summered at hogan DC this past year. they made full offers, and i heard no word of oversubscription. a partner i talked to who is involved in the hiring process didn't seem to think they were looking to downsize the class any time soon....

that being said, i was only a summer: it's not as if they would have confided in me if they were....

The callback to offer ratio is definitely dropping even at the V10. I have a feeling that summer classes will be much smaller this year even though firms have been stating they will be the same size.

161-
Did you like the summer at Hogan? And did you get the sense that associates get good work experience, or is it all doc review? I have offers from Hogan as well as some DC branch offices of NY firms. I want to move to DC after graduation. I figure it might be safer to go to a DC-based firm like Hogan instead of a satellite office.
-154

MexicanMuslims=TTT

I don't understand this talk of yield protection. What reason do firms have to show they have a good yield?

It sounds like a bad comparison to schools that might YP for USNWR ranking purposes.

154-

yeah i really liked it. i mean, doc review is gonna a part of any first year's life, but most of the people (even first & second years) seemed pretty happy there. all the partners & senior associates were also REALLY nice & cool about taking the time to walk you through things. i shuddered when i heard stories from some of my other friends at big DC firms or NY firms in DC... anyway, you won't be disappointed at hogan if you take it.

good luck!
- 161

I guess firms would rather not interview an additional 30 people, invite them to offer receptions, etc., if it is clear from the outset that these people will not accept the offer.

FIRST

White & Case is V20 firm.

Penn does seem to be doing well, Im a 2L and from what I've heard at least people seem happy, pleanty of V10-20 offers etc. to go around. There does seem to be a fair bit of yield protection-ish behavior going around, sitting on offers from 2 V5s and got no callbacked at a few V30s.

To 98/122: Persistent, eh? I know someone who summered at STB Palo Alto and really liked it a lot. Seems like the office is doing well and apparently it's a great group of people. He said the office is new, although it is suburban-office-parky, and that they will very soon be looking for newer, bigger digs to grow the office. All second hand and anecdotal, so take it at what it's worth...

I've got a drawer full of rejection letters. One day it'll make for an interesting collage. Hopefully on a wall in my big corner office, but more likely covering a padded wall in a mental health institute where this job-search process will have put me.

163-

Like 161 I summered at Hogan last summer. It was a great place to work and from what I saw the associates got real substantive work and not just document review. Hogan is one of the best firms in DC. They are well balanced between regulatory, litigation and corporate (they actually bring in more revenues from corporate than the other branches, which is quite rare for a DC firm). The people are also really friendly and approachable and they like to go out a lot.

I also got no sense that they were looking to downsize at all. Everyone got offers last summer. While the summer slowed down a bit, Hogan had the most profitable first six months of the year that it ever had so my guess is they are doing just fine.

163-

Like 161 I summered at Hogan last summer. It was a great place to work and from what I saw the associates got real substantive work and not just document review. Hogan is one of the best firms in DC. They are well balanced between regulatory, litigation and corporate (they actually bring in more revenues from corporate than the other branches, which is quite rare for a DC firm). The people are also really friendly and approachable and they like to go out a lot.

I also got no sense that they were looking to downsize at all. Everyone got offers last summer. While the summer slowed down a bit, Hogan had the most profitable first six months of the year that it ever had so my guess is they are doing just fine.

52- Chicago market has changed a bit. Most firms are rumored to have cut their class sizes, even Skadden, Sidley etc.

I’m a 2L, top 30 school, top 30%, LR. I’ve been pretty disappointed with OCI thus far as I only got 4 callbacks and have already been dinged by one of the firms I was called back by. But, I’m hopeful that any day now I’ll get an offer—all it takes is one!

99-
Mayer: 4 Seasons
Katten: Peninsula
Jones Day: The James

someone puts you up in the Sofitel, can't remember who

What's the longest that firms wait after callbacks before giving an offer? After one week, do you just give up?

top 5 school, top 1/3 of class, 22 callbacks, went on 7 got 5/7 offers. sucks for harvard. people seem to be doing just fine here.

#179 -- Not true.

Top 5 school too. I had many callbacks and many offers (and I'm not even top 1/3), but several of my friends, some with grades far better than mine, are still without offer.

Chicago (city) hiring is certainly down.

At Boalt:

I have median grades, got 3 callbacks (All V30), 1 offer so far, 2 callbacks remain.

My friend has straight Ps, got 4-5 V30 callbacks.

Do not sweat it, the market is tough, but not impossible.

where do you go to school, 139?

Is the lesson here that I should take my first v20 offer and run with it? I'm waiting on a V5 decision (translation: rejected!) and still have four more V50 callbacks (all over the board, V10 to close to 50).

I find it strange that so many HLS insist that firms that dinged them were somehow "less selective." How are you definining "selective" if it doesn't involve selecting fewer people ratther than more?

142: Not true. Covington DC recruiter communicated to me how they are cutting back the size of their summer class.

I know at my firm we're definitely more interested in hiring a T30 kid with a good personality who can actually hold a conversation than some entitled awkward harvard kid

Wait, no one thinks like that. Sorry.

BUT WAI 2 GO ON UR "GOOD PERSONALY-TIES!!!!!!" U TTT SHITHEAD LOSERS. I'M SURE LOTS OF WAIIIIII GUD FIRMS WILL LOOK PAST UR NO JOURNAL MEDIAN-GRADE T40 SCHOOL LOLERCAUST OF FAILURE ND OFFR U GUD JOBS B/C DOSE HARVURD KIDS CANT TALK ABT FOOTBALL LIKE U!!!!!!

Does anyone know what is going on with callbacks to SF? No one I know at HLS has heard anything yet?

Agree on Hogan, it's a great place to work.

After credit markets get done with corporate work this week, the assumption that callback = offer = summer job = permanent job is going to have a few gaps in it.

KILL BILL was not a good idea, putting it mildly.

Choosing between Kirkland v. Latham (both NYC)---interested in corp. Any help dudes?

dow crashing. accept offer immediately?

Michigan 2L, top 15%, no journal, 6/24 callbacks, three callbacks to go, no offers yet.

192-- good question. im waiting to hear from 6 places i interviewed last week, but have 2 good offers. both of them wont renege (i hope)

I dunno about all of this pessimism---CCN here, top 40%, secondary journal. I went 14/21 at V5s-V40s, and 7/7 on cbs. The "personality" issue isn't a canard...most of the people at my school without an offer aren't particularly adept at selling themselves in an interview setting, as nice or personable as they might otherwise be.

Also summered at Hogan. You won't go wrong there. As to your question about doc review, they make heavy use of contract attorneys. There is some doc review (esp. in white collar) but it definitely won't be all you do - even as a jr. assoc.

a lot of you people fail to realize that its much easier to get a job in NY bc it takes huge summer classes compared to other cities (chicago takes bigger ones too, even with a reduction this year)

i dont think you can compare well across cities

to those at local schools doing well, you are having an easier time than top students at T14 with no or weak connections to the area. And when freaked out students try to apply to lower ranked firms, a lot of firms won't give them a chance because they assume the students won't take the offer

I know a lot of ppl at my T10 school who either have no callbacks or no offers yet

At my good DC firm, more of the students I am interviewing are getting offers than last year (generally same quality). Doesn't really mean much, but to me it means that we aren't circling the wagons.

#197 -- Yes, summer classes in NYC are larger, but there are also more schools in NY and many more applicants from non-NY schools who apply for jobs in NYC. It's hard to say whether it is easier or harder to get an offer.

199 - You're wrong.

NYC is by far the easiest market to get. There are an assload of firms. Getting a job in DC and San Francisco is MUCH more difficult than getting a job in NYC.

Has anyone, anywhere, gotten an offer from Steptoe yet?

"But if you think a 70% callback rate is low, then you're a moron. "

That /is/ low. And no firm screens for "fit" at OCI. OCI is just a freak test . Callbacks are given on grades alone. If you have good grades and aren't getting 90% success rate at OCI, you're failing the freak test.

@201 -

Yes, I have received an offer.

201:
Yes, 10 days ago. They called me about a week and a half after the callback.

202 - totally off base (though I can only speak for this year...)

202 -- couldn't be more wrong. What does "good grades" mean? The offer rate for callbacks is around 60%. You're saying that almost everyone gets through the first gate and over half through the second gate? That's untenable, douche.

@201 -

Yes, I have received an offer.

That's what my hiring partner said.

"You're saying that almost everyone gets through the first gate and over half through the second gate? That's untenable, douche."

You have just answered your own question about what good grades are. The first gate is getting the OCI interview in the first place. And that's the only gate that matters. If you fail after that, either your grades are at the margins, or you are insufferable.

208 - you assume that OCI screens for grades. Mine doesn't, because I don't go to a TTT, moron. Try again.

208 - you assume that OCI screens for grades. Mine doesn't, because I don't go to a TTT, moron. Try again.

"Good grades" = what their *actual* hiring criteria are i.e. "we're not putting anyone on the website who won't be latin honors and journal."

Most cuts at OCI are based entirely on grades and Law Review membership. The questioning is faaaar too amatuer hour to allow for anything else.

146 - Go with Goodwin Procter, hands down.

210,

I'm not talking about what your school's career services does--the thought never occurred to me. I'm talking about what my firm does. I assure you that they screen for grades, even at your T. And you would have jumped at our offer, had you not failed the freak/douchebag round of the contest.

213 - of course your firm screens. Some people don't have good enough grades to get callbacks with the best firms. I'd say 70% rate where I was *only* interviewing with firms that are hard to get into is pretty good. And no, I don't need your firm, I have offers from every firm I wanted offers from. I could not have done better, so STFU.

Is it true that WILDMAND HARROLD hasn't gotten back to anyone they have interviewed? I heard that WILDMAN HARROLD is considering doing away with its summer program.

Yet another ex-Hogan DC summer here. I'd echo what the others have said. Great work, great people, and as good of a lifestyle as you can hope for at a top-notch DC firm.

T14 3L, had a firm (as opposed to cold) offer at a v20 firm, only 2 callbacks (none directly through OCI), haven't heard back yet.

Hard times to be a 3L, good luck everyone.

212, Why GP hands down?

-146

I summered at STB palo alto and 100% agree with what 171 heard. Great group of people. Still seems to be work.

I'm a 1L who's looking outside at the Hyde Park midway right now. I've spoken with a number of 2Ls and they're doing well; and all of the 3Ls I know through activities like the Federalist Society have offers.

Still, it's unnerving, and I hope that someone can comment on whether next year should improve for us Windy City kids.

Shana Tova, everyone. I'm going to go pray now.

Well, as a 2L at Chicago, I can say that it has been terrifying this year. Sure, I'm middle of the class, no journal, but I expected a LOT more than 3 callbacks (one ding from those 3). I still haven't heard on callbacks from about 3 firms, but I think there are plenty out there like me. It's just that we don't talk about it much to avoid making either ourselves or the other party to the conversation feel unexpectedly bad. Sure, maybe the whole system needs to change, but who wants to be in the wringer when it does? Not me.

Hogan's summer program is awesome. As an associate, I found it difficult to get 2000+ hours (for that they will reward you by throwing you on the lower track and cutting your salary). For those people I knew that were busy there were a lot of gripes that they were working long hours for a lot less pay (much lower bonuses, no special bonuses, not lockstep associate salaries) than associates working the same hours at NY-based firms in DC. If you like working in a large impersonal office, not having a window until you're a midlevel, getting paid less than associates working in "satellite offices" in DC, and competing for work is your thing than it is your type of place. On the plus side, many partners work on really interesting cases, a good percentage of people (men and women) work the lower hours track, the firm really is family friendly, and it throws amazing parties.

For the OP, if you're into the money you should definitely go to Cleary. You may call it a "satellite" office but it gets much bigger cases and clients than most DC-based firms and pays much better.

I'm at a T14 who did OCI early and I'm living la vida Vault 5.

Suck it losers!

222 - how much of a cut is the lower track?

Michigan 2L, Mostly interviewing in a secondary market I have strong connections to. Had 100% callback rate at OCI in that market, and offers seem easy to come by. But I don't think, based on my classmates' experiences, that I'd have been as successful if I were trying for more common markets (Chicago, NY, DC). I have friends who have done several callbacks and have no offers yet. Obviously plenty of others are set, though.

215 - Heard from them this morning.

222/8:04: can you say more about the Cleary office in DC? How much do they work compared to other big firms in DC? How's their transactional practice? How are they viewed/availability of exit options? Thanks.

LIVING LA VIDA VAULT 5!!

221 - I'm a Chicago 2L as well and have heard many similar stories. I've also heard of some people with 0 callbacks, despite doing tons of screening interviews.

At the same time, the LR people I know are cleaning up, so it's still good at the top.

229 and 221 are depressing me. I'm currently sitting in New Graduate and your words make me want to open my CivPro book and study like there's no tomorrow.

230 here -- I meant study a lot. I don't know why I used that expression because, if there was no tomorrow, I guess I wouldn't be as motivated to study.

146; if you are interested in products liability or IP litigation, then I would definitely head to KS over Goodwin.

222-- the fact that you do not know "than" from "then" leads me to believe you did not summer at HH.

or work as an associate

I'd guess NY firms and others to a lesser extent will probably give out fewer offers because 1) they are afraid of over-subscribing, 2) related, the top firms are probably expecting better yields since they are viewed as more stable, so top firms in particular will extend fewer offers than usual. That and I'm guessing most top firms will reduce class sizes.

2L Chicago student

From what I gather, things are going great for most people.

I'm not LR and have cb's at 6 V10's and a few other firms on Vault's most selective list. Similar experiences from fellow non-LR classmates.

noticed the comments about which hotels in chicago. wanted to ask the same question about DC—where are the DC firms putting people up? (Hogan, Mayer, Kirkland, A&P, Sullivan . . .)

Covington in DC- Grand Hyatt

Anybody know where the following Chicago firms put you up for callbacks?

Winston
Baker
Latham
McDermott
Jenner

I think this is what we have for others:

Mayer: 4 seasons
Sidley: Ritz
Skadden: Trump Towers
Jones Day: James
Katten: Peninsula
Kirkland: Intercontinental

Everybody in Atlanta: 4 Seasons. And since the Atlanta firms do dinner the night before, in addition to the interview + lunch, going into the lobby at 7 p.m. is pretty entertaining, as interviewees and interviewers try to match up with the right counterpart.

I attend Northwestern, have a very average GPA and received callbacks at:

McDermott - Chicago
Kirkland - Chicago
Mayer Brown - Chicago
Jenner - Chicago
Jones Day - Chicago
Winston & Strawn - Chicago
Sonnenschein - Chicago
Baker & McKenzie - Chicago
Schiff Hardin - Chicago
Foley - Chicago
Dechert - DC
Skadden - DC
Fried Frank - DC
DLA - San Diego

Great for me, too. 15/20 callbacks. Out of the 9 callbacks I went to, I got offers at 7, ding at 1, waiting to hear back from 1. Oh, and I have 1 callback still to come.

But, I'm a CS at a T2 in around the median. IP is still doing well...

Great for me, too. 14/20 callbacks. Out of the 9 callbacks I went to, I got offers at 7, ding at 1, waiting to hear back from 1. Oh, and I have 1 callback still to come.

But, I'm a CS at a T2 in around the median. IP is still doing well...

Note, the callbacks at:
Perkins Coie
Klarquist
Heller Ehrman
Fish & Richardson
DLA Piper
Foley
Sheppard
Townsend
MoFo
Winston & Strawn
Morgan Lewis
Fenwick
Cooley
Knobbe

232- yea, itd be IP lit at GP or kaye..

146

239,

Jenner = Trump

The Grand Hyatt in DC blows - like a GULC circus in there.

Michigan 2L, Average grades. 3/21 callbacks, 2 callbacks to go, no offers yet. Most people I know have at least one offer, but there are a few who are still waiting to get their first.

I had a callback interview at an Orrick office in CA and they just canceled the callback interview

2L, T30, no-LR, IP lit focus

27 callback invites, I went on 13, offers at 13. (4 in V10)

IP litigators are like plastic surgeons: economy-independent.

Don't go to Foley if you can help it. They screwed over a lot of good summers.

Winston puts you up at the Conrad...any thoughts on Winston - Chicago?

Winston puts you up at the Conrad . . . any thoughts on Winston - Chicago?

I got an offer at Winston Chicago and seriously considered it for a while b/c the people that I met are so nice and I really clicked with them. However they gave 60 offers out of 67 summer associates and that disturbs me a little bit. I guess it depends on what your other options are but overall Winston seems like a fine place. Personally I have what I think is a better option so I am not going to Winston.

"Harvard kids with toxic personalities are struggling. Harvard kids with average grades and any non-crappy personality are doing just fine.

I only know one person with no call backs and the fact that he didn't get any callbacks was reassuring to me because he is a gigantic D-bag."

We must know different people. I consider myself to have average grades, but in terms of personality/interview skills I am just fine. And I am hurting on callbacks. And some of my friends with mediocre grades have 0 callbacks. These aren't bad people.

I was encouraged to apply only to top 20 firms, and I'm glad I didn't. THe market is definitely different this year.

I had average grades from a CCN and got to see both sides of the story, I think: a lot of rejections in the first round, but a 100% offer rate on callbacks.

Many people have received offers by now, but several have not. It's definitely different this year.

Has anyone else not heard back from Weil NY yet? (After more than a month.)

The only reason to ever attend GULC is if they offer you a full scholarship. In that case, it's a suitable alternative to lots bottom/mid T14 schools. One of my best friends from college would up making that decision. Things worked out just fine for him. He's now graduated, working at a good firm, etc. But from what he says, GULC kids are going to get fucked hard this year.... Is it - in large measure - just a product of their massive class? Maybe it just seems worse because there are so many people.....

T15 w/B+ average and LR, plus much more, can't even get a screening interview in DC/LA/NYC/Chicago...doing great in the secondary market though. Not a good year for white males

T15 w/B+ average and LR, plus much more, can't even get a screening interview in DC/LA/NYC/Chicago...doing great in the secondary market though. Not a good year for white males

T15 w/B+ average and LR, plus much more, can't even get a screening interview in DC/LA/NYC/Chicago...doing great in the secondary market though. Not a good year for white males

School ranked 30-40, top 5% of my class - doing well in Chicago and NYC.

It isn't surprising that people at the top of their class did well. They will probably do well in almost every economy.

What's different this year is that the bottom 60% at top schools and the bottom 90% of lower-ranked schools is not doing well.

Too little discussion of markets outside NY (and too much discussion of HLS - who gives a fuck don't feed the trolls).

I think the consensus is that, all else being equal, it's easier to get through screening (if used), get a callback / receieve an offer in the NY market vs. other large markets (Chicago, DC, LA, ?Houston?)

My (non-NY!) anecdotal evidence: at a T6, median grades, good WE, good interviews. Focused on LA & DC. (Odd mix, but I had reasons which were coherent for each mkt). It's been pretty rough on both coasts for me - far fewer callbacks than I anticipated.

Can't really testify to others' experience in LA - know too few people - but I know a bunch who were focusing on DC. Most of my friends looking there have had a similar experience (across a range of grades / resumes): the DC mkt seems to be getting awfully picky / gun-shy. Not sure if it's economic or political or what.

To expand up 262's thoughts...

I think the specific market that a candidate applies to affects his/her chances of "doing well" in that market, especially when you take into consideration where said candidate's fellow law students are applying. If your school strongly favors one market over the rest, you will have a much more difficult time in that market this year.

What seems to be most surprising is that OCIs this year served more of a purpose than just weeding out the "freaks." I believe OCIs were actually competitive this year and that most qualified students were competing for the same spot with 2-4 other equally qualified candidates.

I personally found DC to be especially brutal this season.

Maybe we could have some ppl who participated in the interviewing process as interviewers weigh in about how their firms approached this interview season - and how that approach differed from years past...

#264 -- that is an excellent idea. Elie, could you find a few hiring partners or recruiters willing to be interviewed?

I also agree with 264 - I have decent grades, law review, excellent work experience, DC connections, but zero DC callbacks.

Some more michigan folks over here. I'm dead center of the class in terms of grades, no journal, got 7/17 callbacks, one offer so far - friends in general have been doing very well - most people have at least three callbacks, and two of my roomates have over ten each (and neither has a GPA in the top 20%). But then again, Michigan has a reputation for nice people.

Some more michigan folks over here. I'm dead center of the class in terms of grades, no journal, got 7/17 callbacks, one offer so far - friends in general have been doing very well - most people have at least three callbacks, and two of my roomates have over ten each (and neither has a GPA in the top 20%). But then again, Michigan has a reputation for nice people.

Some more michigan folks over here. I'm dead center of the class in terms of grades, no journal, got 7/17 callbacks, one offer so far from a vault 25 - friends in general have been doing very well - most people have at least three callbacks, and two of my roomates have over ten each (and neither has a GPA in the top 20%). But then again, Michigan has a reputation for nice people.

horrible law school, sub 100....bad grades, 2.5ish...no journal... 20 interviews, 15 callbacks, 13 offers.. just in nyc.

but i was a chem major and did pharma research for 5 years, IP is still very alive.

im glad i did all my work in undergrad.

CCN, good grades, journal but not law review, plenty of work experience. Got 19/22 callbacks, (including 7 v10 firms, bunch of v20), went on 8, offers at 5 (including 2 v5), dinged at 2, waiting on 1.

Things seem to be going pretty well for everyone I know near the top of the class (law review and/or top 20%), but it's really not going well for those at the bottom. I know people who only got 2 or 3 callbacks after having done 30+ screening interviews, and people who are still waiting to get their first offer. I've been really surprised there's so much of a divide.

T10, top 15%, opted not to do journal, other extracurriculars though. Have some callbacks at V10's in NYC. But as for like the top 8 firms/offices in DC, zero luck. I have plenty of other offers/callbacks from other firms in DC (including some ranked 10-15 by Vault in DC) but those top DC firms were extremely ruthless this year. I don't think it was my personality (seeing as how I have many other offers in DC already), but I feel like my school/gpa should have landed me at least one callback for the top 8 in DC.

NJ market seems good...

TT school, top 25%, 2ndary Journal...multiple offers so far.

However, as expected, seems most offers have gone out to the LR kids first.

Penn 2L here. Good grades, secondary journal. Interviewing for DC - 10/27 for callbacks, wide range of firms (i.e., dings/callbacks at all ranges for some reason). have completed 7 callbacks (all last week), but no word yet on the results, which is somewhat frightening.

I've heard from lots of classmates about the scarcity of callbacks/offers, but maybe I'm just speaking with the wrong crowd

DC is generally harder than NYC to break into the top firms. The top DC firms are extremely snobby about credentials.

Overall it is much harder to get a summer job in DC than in NY because there is a lot of interest from all over the country and there are less spots. Most DC firms don't hire 90 summers like the NYC firms do so they can be a lot more selective.

We're dying at Harvard. I know several people with 10+ interviews with just one callback.

sounds to me like #49 has a toxic personality.

T15, bottom half of my class, no callbacks. Screwed.

Good post, Elie. I’m a 2L, top 30 school, top 30%, LR with zero offers as of yet, so I’m not sure whether to be comforted or terrified that so many other students are feeling my pain.

I guess, what I’d like to know is what to do now? Any experienced attorneys out there have thoughts on what the next step is for 2L’s with no offers on the table?

EVERYBODY DANCE NOW

Don't believe the hype Proskauer is/had laid employees off. and have nudged "nonperforming associates..more reductions coming...mark my words.

-The Truth

280, great question: so what to we do now? I'm top 5% at (conceedingly) a top 80 school. My one offer was yanked back as per "we oversubscribed our summer class"