Marty's first!

Potato Chips!

Definitely do NOT rip her in a review if you haven't taken remedial steps first. You will be royally pwned if you rip her without warning.

In what way is this post "excellent"?

Sarcasm and indirection always works best, in my opinion. That way there are no misunderstandings or hurt feelings.

Love, love, love that there are four steps in your three step system. Seriously, does anybody read before they post?

So... does this mean ATL will fire Mystal and give us Marin? please?

first to say this sucks in 3, no 4 ways.

Edamame!

4 - what does "pwned" mean?

PLEASE READ: I was excited about this feature, because I thought it would be a "When X happens, what do others in the legal profession do?" And that is something that I would find useful and would make me click through to read the post (rather than just the blurb on the RSS reader). Instead, the answers are some horrible attempt at "making funny". HORRIBLE. Waste of time! This is something with potential that you aren't realizingm but, go ahead, maybe law students would find this crap funny.

Marin should change her name to Siskiyou.

Are you a 40-year old incompetent legal secretary and single mother, r12? It would certainly explain your poor writing and logic skills.

This was actually pretty good, but -- and I hate to say it -- it should have ended before the jump.

My ATL EIC sucks gigantic heaving GULC BALLS.

Pls Hndle Ths Thnx

UVA2L

alright, so Marin is back. How about getting Exley? I'd like some centaur pubes with my morning coffee.

I agree with 12 - many of us face this situation. Instead of making light of it, some helpful advice would have been nice.

11 is clearly a n00b

This could have been a useful straight advice column on ATL. Instead it's inadequate snark by a reject from Narnia, with not even an apology to the readers for disregarding their judgment. Ew.

BALLS

11, it means 4 spends too much time gaming on his computer or XBOX.

ATL finds a creative new way to get worse every day.

11/19 - Not sure what "n00b" means, but people who use the term "pwned" are geeks.

6, right on. Actual line from one of my secretarial reviews: "____ continues to demonstrate a remarkable ability to multi-task. I can't think of many other people who could simultaneously play solitaie on the computer, engage in personal phone calls and constantly turn the dial on her radio, the volume of which, although distracting to less focused people such as me, somehow does not distract her from these tasks." It worked like a charm. No more problems, and never spoken of again.

40 y/o secretary at a mid to large size firm making more cash money to work less hours than most new attorneys with 2-3 years exp.

Well, that settles it. Marin to EIC.

Oh and 20, 12, et. al., STFU and GBTW - you are all Debbie Downers who will hate change regardless of its content.

11 -- it means the comment's author is a child.

I loved it . . . until the jump.

While not great, 7,000 times better than anything Elie has done in his time here.

Anyone else notice how the suckiest part of this post was the part where Elie got to weigh in?

Elie to NY Secretary

31 - agree

"pwned" is an easy way to identify a group of people voluntarily removing themselves from the genepool.

Elie, Is hugely annoying and increasingly hostile towards us biglaw associates (presumably in retaliation for the abuse we heap upon him).

"pwned" is an easy way to identify a group of people voluntarily removing themselves from the genepool.

Actually a good post for once.

27, Debbie Downers? Are you Marin, Marin's mom, or just retarded?

Eh. This kind of humor is easy, and while it's kinda funny when you're drinking at a bar with some friends, it's not especially worth reading onscreen.

Q: My secretary isn't doing her job, but I don't want to get her in trouble. What should I do?

A: DO SOMETHING MEAN OR SARDONIC LOL

Ha. Ha.

This sucks like GULC balls marinating in the wide open mouth of Skadden.

That Marin's post was better than Elie's doesn't mean it didn't suck. That we've been hating Elie since day one doesn't mean we want Marin's shit. Bring back Exley, or, better, have a new contest, or, better yet, keep Lat.

33- double agree

Why are all of the secretaries at my firm skanks and 40 somethings with bastard children?

the GULCers and marinheads are back in full force

12/18/20/etc: Your reading skills suck. There was some good advice in there: talk to her and try to fix the problem before writing a bad review. What else were you expecting? If you can't find good advice because it's hidden among a few jokes, that's your problem. Kill self plz? Kbaithx.

I usually GULC my secretary while simultaneously giving her a review.

38, If you do not enjoy being called a Debbie Downer, perhaps you prefer being called a whiny bitch... So, whiny bitch, STFU and GBTW.

Oh, and I voted for Alex.

The xoxo kids in this thread are funny.

My secretary sucks ass - she screws up 9 out of 10 things I ask her to do and even lies to me every so often (this is a V10 firm, mind you). And yes, she is forty-something and a single mom (very awkward when I have to read her the riot act since I am half her age).

And why f**k do they know so little about technology; aren't they paid to know more than me about making zip files, OCR'ing PDFs automatically, using Acrobat Professional, etc.?

Also, if the other three people to whom my secretary is assigned give her as much work as I do, then it means that she does "actual" work about 10 hours a week and the rest is spent doing only G-d knows what.

47, I do prefer whiny bitch cause it sounds a bit less like I wandered into a quilting circle. Even more, however, I prefer Marin and Elie making like the old joke:

Q: What's black, white, and red all over?

A: An interracial couple in a car accident.

50, that's actually really funny. More please.

- 47

Marin is cuter than Kash and a better writer than Elie (though that's becoming less resume worthy as time goes on).

Hell, just look at her blog that's linked. That stuff is ten times better than the crap ATL has been mailing in for the past few weeks.

I wouldn't want to GULC my secretary - she'll probably end up with another kid to add to her collection of bastards

The only thing Mystal does well is T-Bag himself with his own GULC Balls.

Suck it, Mystal.

lukewarm review and switch offices. The message will be loud and clear, and you will end up with a better secretary.

From Marin's blog:

:Frankly my expertise ranges from what to do if you go into a bathroom stall immediately after someone has taken a giant shit and you now see this person every day and you're revolted and it's interfering with your work, to how to act if you see a partner naked in the locker room of a gym and they try to start a conversation with you regarding your assignment and you feel like you might have stared at their boobs accidentally and they might have seen this and they might now be talking about this with other people and now you're paranoid you might get fired"

Awesome. I am so sold.

I look forward to hearing from the same five commenters how wonderfully exquisite each of Marin's posts is, over and over again.

You suck, Elie. Marin, while no Lat, kicks your ass. (Post could have ended without the jump, though.)

TTT_forever69

pwned!

Elie, this is your best post of the day -- except for the part after the jump.

57 = Elie (crying himself to sleep on his HUGE pillow)

Mystal GULCing sweaty balls. What else is new? Same GULC and sweaty balls, different day.

To: the anonymous (read: gutless) commenters endlessly leveling poorly written, unoriginal and vacuous attacks on all writers on this site: you are simply nauseating. I'm stunned that Lat/Elie/Kash/Marin etc are able to take this kind of lazy, ignorant and uninspired abuse and keep on posting. They are better men/women than you.

Why not provide ACTUAL advice?

Co-sign 63.

63/65 = Elie attempting to raise his skill level by association with the competent writers on this site

Marin to Zero Comments!

63 -- Seriously? Really? You must be a Mormon.

I'm sensing three months' worth of pent-up angst repeatedly put on display by a cadre of supporters still apparently bitter over Marin's ATL Idol loss.

Elie is no Lat, but quit kidding yourselves. Marin still sucks. Absence has not made the heart grow fonder.

Thanks, Marin, for writing exactly what I was thinking about Elie's ignorant response. I was hoping for some good advice to use on my incompetent secretary, though.

I have worked in a large firm for several years and can attest that the overwhelming majority of secretaries are incompetent. Also, their level of compensation vs. competence is beyond belief - try 100K+/year with 4 weeks of vacation in many cases. It is actually more interesting for me to watch how law firms try to "address" the issue. The firm apparently realizes that secretaries are not a good value, but instead of trying to train the secretaries to provide better value, the firm just cuts down on the total number of secretaries. If you look back over the last 10 years, you see the ratio of secretary to lawyer decreasing pretty rapidly. It used to be pretty much 1-1 not that long ago, but now it is 1-2 at most and often 1-3 or 1-4. With the increasing ability to handle most filing and communication electronically, I think that the "secretarial" function will prettty much cease to exist and will get folded into "lawyer" or "paralegal".

@40 -- "This sucks like GULC balls marinating in the wide open mouth of Skadden."

I'm confused -- which party are you trying to malign with this comment? I'm assuming you're on the anti-Georgetown bandwagon, since "GULC" has become the de rigeur pejorative (both as a noun and a verb) on this site.

But everyone knows the teabagger is superior to the teabaggee -- meaning "the wide open mouth of Skadden" is getting the shit end of the stick on that transaction you're describing. So GULC > Skadden? They're in competition now?

Your thesis needs work. Please see me after class.

Why is 63 trying to ruin everyone's fun?

Go back to your part time program at GULC.

Lat, It's a shame what you've let this site become. It used to be a must-read several time a day for those of us in the legal profession. Now it is pure garbage, from editors to commenters. You've let a gold mine slip through your fingers. What a waste.

OK, that was pretty funny. And there was real advice hidden in the sarcasm and snark. I think some of you are just simple.

73:

63 isn't in a part-time program at GULC, she's a 2L at the University of Alabama. She's stunned b/c Lat actually listened to our pleas and stopped her posting on this site. Her name, if you don't know it already, is Sharon E. Nichols.

71, so true. It would make more sense to have college-educated, wanna be lawyer, paralegals just absorb whatever it is that legal secretaries do and have more file clerks who were actually knowledgeable about how to file things in the necessary courts.

Elie, please, please, can you just delete all the stupid GULC posts? Why all these law students at other schools give a crap about GULC is beyond me, but it is juvenile and really distracting.

Useless and nasty post. If you are having problems with an employee, is it really so difficult to speak directly with them about what they need to do to improve? Or would you just rather suffer in silence forever?

If you don't have the guts to deal with the problem directly, you deserve whatever crappy performance you get.

And if the whole post was just for humor, it sucked.

Love Marin, I *actually* LOL'd in class! thank god I sit in the back

Marin = awesomeness.

Elie = the suck.

So sick of Elie's political posts. Lat would make remarks here and there, but it was snark. Elie goes with the annoying the "I'm a superior liberal" schtick. That ain't snark. It sucks.

Marin to 160!

If you can't do the work yourself and can't find a way to correct your secretary, reach out to someone at the head of administrative support for assistance on correcting behavior. They have suggestions - and can also pass on the recommendations to the staff member.

I am a wuss, and I just do most of my own stuff, because it's quicker and I don't want to have to explain it, wait for it and review it, if I can just do it myself in a quarter of the time. Unless it's not client-related, like CLE forms or reimbursements.

LSAT score?

I would greatly appreciate the GULC comments to stop.

Don Draper would know what to do!

This column is the first good thing to happen to ATL in months.

Common problem, no solution. Doing secretarial stuff is good billables.

My secretary is nuts. Just crazy. She yells at people.

How would Judge Halverson handle this? She would simply eat her secretary and request a replacement.

GULC grads don't need secretaries or support staff. GULC grads make it happen on their own.

For the first time ever, I agree with Elie. Your secretary doesn't "cover" for you when you skip out of work? Are you serious?

Write an honest review. Be sure to include that you skip out early instead of doing your job, and that you are angry at your secretary because she won't provide your alibi. Or grow up.

89,

That's because GULC grads are the support staff and secretaries. They damn well better make it happen, lest they be fired.

UPENN State, UVA Softball, UC of Berkeley $25K Consulting budget yada yada yada

90 - I don't like you.

I don't understand why all these people think it's helpful to occupy 90% of the comments with a discussion of Elie vs. Marin, GULC, etc. You are ruining this blog more than Elie ever could, because this blog is what we make of it. If you are juvenile, this blog will be juvenile.

That said, here is how things work: Only the most senior partner among the attorneys assigned to a secretary has any authority over the secretary. Everyone else is stuck with what they get, so it's up to them to make the most of it. If you point out typos to your secretary a couple times and she doesn't shape up, just plan on doing your own drafts/edits from now on.

Also, I agree that your secretary shouldn't be inventing stories for you, but she is generally useful for passing along half-truths. If you tell her you're not feeling well and headed home, that's what she will tell anyone who asks. That is, unless you've given her a bad review and been rude to her, at which time she might tell them she has no clue where you went. So, that's another reason to tread lightly here. Until you're the big shot, you have little control over the situation, and it's in your best interest just to stay on her good side.

Secretaries here (V10) don't seem to do much, and many don't understand technology. Some are really, really amazing, and it's obvious who they are. I don't understand why the firm keeps so many around, considering that they get paid SO MUCH to do so little work. Your average paralegal can do so much more than your average secretary, and they get paid half as much. Some attorneys give secretarial tasks to paralegals just because they don't want to deal with their secretaries.

Your secretary isn't your employee, she's the firm's employee, so if she was really doing her job, she wouldn't cover for you when you skip out early.

But, we all know people don't really care that much about doing their jobs (see: lawyer skipping out early), and she should learn that loyalty to the person writing her review is more in her interests than loyalty to the firm.

I think a lot of the problem with secretaries is that (in my experience) firms don't tell you what your secretary is for, and what sort of stuff we should or should not be asking them to do. I'm pretty sure mine answers my calls if I don't pick up, but then they usually get redirected back to my voicemail anyways. I don't know what else she does.

Can I ask her to go over to the vending machines and bring me some chips and a Coke? What about checking to see that when a document refers a section of itself, the citation is correct? How about reading through hundreds of pages of SEC filings and flagging pages containing certain key words? What about finding me a salon nearby that carries the hair products I use and am almost out of but am too lazy to go buy more of? Can she leave the office to pick it up?

And most importantly...how do the answers change when you share your secretary with 1-3 people who are all more senior than you?

" Your secretary isn't your employee, she's the firm's employee, so if she was really doing her job, she wouldn't cover for you when you skip out early."

This makes no sense. A secretary is the firm's employee whose job responsibility is to work for me and a few other people.

"I think a lot of the problem with secretaries is that (in my experience) firms don't tell you what your secretary is for"

Yeah, shut up.

#95 , you be a dumb-fuck brotha

Your comments are really off, have you ever had a secretary?

Banana Hammock!

I recognize that most attorneys are pussies with zero management training... but holy shit... what is so difficult here? You pull her aside and explain politely what you want her to do differently. Encourage her when you see her making the changes you want and correct her when she screws up again.

If she is unable to fix herself within a reasonable time (you'll have to define this for yourself), then slam her on the review. You'll be justified... after all, you explained what the expectations were and she failed to meet them.

95,

You are an idiot:

"Can I ask her to go over to the vending machines and bring me some chips and a Coke?" If you are working on an emergency that is no fault of your own, probably yes.

"What about checking to see that when a document refers a section of itself, the citation is correct?" Yes. A third grader is capable of doing that.

"How about reading through hundreds of pages of SEC filings and flagging pages containing certain key words?" If you trust a junior high dropout who is not a paralegal to do this, you are risking malpractice.

"What about finding me a salon nearby that carries the hair products I use and am almost out of but am too lazy to go buy more of?" Go eff yourself.

"Can she leave the office to pick it up?" Same objection.

#95, you're clearly still in law school -- you're comments are so quaint. I would love to have my secretary do some of the things you listed -- picking up my dry cleaning, grabbing something at the drug store, bringing me a mid-afternoon snack, or scheduling my next dentist appointment would all save me much more time than most of the things she does for me. But, no, you can't ask her to do any of those things unless you're a very senior partner.

My secretary mails things for me, helps me keep my files organized, and makes copies/PDFs. That's about it.

#99, your advice really depends on the firm. In some firms, giving negative reviews is *very* frowned upon -- you will cause mass chaos by giving one. In other firms, secretaries are very powerful and have a massive gossip network -- cross one the wrong way and you will get badmouthed to the partners. So, understand the politics of your firm before you give any negative reviews.

101: Fair point regarding the negative review. I would argue that any organization that refuses to give bad reviews should scrap its entire review program since it is utterly worthless at that point. Maybe this is how stealth layoffs happen?

In any case, I still maintain that the BEST way to handle ANY bad employee is to politely explain what you want them to change. Most people will make the effort to adjust. NOT talking to them about your problems with their work is stupid and weak.

Co-sign 101 re 99's comment. It's not that simple, Management 101 notwithstanding. As a junior you don't have anything to gain by giving a bad review to your secretary - you probably won't get a new one - but you will get the crappy one you have to hate you.

101: Fair point regarding the negative review. I would argue that any organization that refuses to give bad reviews should scrap its entire review program since it is utterly worthless at that point. Maybe this is how stealth layoffs happen?

In any case, I still maintain that the BEST way to handle ANY bad employee is to politely explain what you want them to change. Most people will make the effort to adjust. NOT talking to them about your problems with their work is stupid and weak.

Some reviews don't state who says what. Ding away.

This was pretty good. Can I change my vote for Sophist? THAT was certainly a mistake.

This was pretty good. Can I change my vote for Sophist? THAT was certainly a mistake.

Treat people who support you the way you would like to be treated. I, for one, don't like to hear about a senior lawyer's dissatisfaction with my work nine months later in a review. It makes me feel kind of like an a**hole. So, I privately express dissatisfaction to paralegals/secretaries/whomever rather than passive-aggressively criticizing them in an anonymous review.

My experience has been that most secretaries will bend over backwards to help lawyers who treat them with respect. They will also cover for you when you leave early because they don't want to make you look bad. If you're an a**hole, people generally love to make you look bad. It's human nature.

Good point, #105, an anonymous review is different than if your secretary knows who submitted the review. Since at my firm, the secretary is told what you said in your review, I can only guess that in an anonymous review situation, all the attorney's ratings are averaged. In such a scenario, it might be wise to feel out how the other attorneys are grading your secretary. If she truly sucks, there's no point in skewing the average by giving a good review if the other attorneys have all decided to give her bad reviews in hopes of getting her fired. In such a case, a neutral review would be fine. Then, CYA in the comments section by stating "I didn't really ask her to do that much."

At my firm there is an expectation that all of the attorneys tip their secretary at the end of the year (and a generous tip at that). My secretary is incompetent and spends all day on the phone decribing in great detail to anyone who will listen the latest drama occupying her life - it really fcks me off that I'm expected to provide additional compensation to someone who does SFA to make my life easier.

have people here ever had a legal secretary?

Look I admit that every once in a blue moon you find a diamond, but 99/100 of these yokels suck horribly at their jobs and spend most of their time online and gossiping

I'm shocked that my comment is 112 (or thereabouts) and not one word about anyone with an attractive secretary who they are seeing on the side, and how that makes up for the incompetence.

Or just any comment re: "banging" one's secretary. Has the ATL crowd reallly matured that much?

Or is just a matter of minutes before these kinds of comments, and also a "Guys in my HS....It was no big deal" comment is put out there?

I was a secretary a few years ago (now a paralegal) and it really is as easy as 104 and 108 suggest. I appreciated it when the attorneys I worked for spent a few seconds with me to share their expectations on how things should be done. It was no big deal, I wasn't insulted, and I knew how to do the work the right way in the future. I also got them shit from the vending machines, purchased Christmas presents for their wives/girlfriends, etc.... it wasn't a big deal. I liked working with them and didn't mind getting away from my desk.

It probably also helps that I'm a childless, 20-something blonde. But whatever.

We recently hired a dud. This secretary has issues. Major issues. This secretary loves playing games on her computer, and has a terrible attitude.

112,

Guys in my high school used to send their hot but useless secretaries home at 3pm each day after spending a 2-hour lunch shagging them rotten. It happened all the time, and it was no big deal. The girls got to spend time with their kids after school.

#114 -- you should get her a blackberry and challenge her to a brickbreaker-off. Tell her her bonus depends on her score.

Marin- this is great! glad you're back.

First and foremost, I was under the impression that this was a cite where one could get information regarding issues that arise at law institutions. Although I will concede that there are many terrible secretaries in today’s work pool, there are twice as many bad attorneys, specially, first year associates who come out of law school thinking they are the members of the “Dream Team”, well newsflash YOU are not.

Secretarial responsibilities consist of maintaining your calendars, making edits, creating Power Point presentations, providing templates of legal documents that YOU must organized yourself and provide the contextual language for us to edit your many mistakes caught only by the skillful eyes of that insignificant person in your practice called your “secretary”.

We are NOT hired for the purpose of LYING to partners about your whereabouts because you are not GROWN-UPS and can honestly tell people in the office you are leaving for the day. It is NOT our responsibility to wrap Christmas gifts or buy your significant others presents because you are too lazy to do for yourself. Those who do that CHOOSE to do so, however, they are not obligated to do so.

I am proud to say that I am a legal secretary and YES my job pays much more than an associates with two or more years of experience because I am damn good at what I do. Your so called experience comes from the secretaries assigned to you who know the court’s Local Rules inside and out. Who know Judge’s preferences and the Clerk’s to call upon when you MESS up on a filing or who other wise saves your butt from being mauled over by the dreaded partner at the firm when you blow off a deadline.

With my great salary I was able to put my self through COLLEGE and have obtained a MASTER’S degree and am soon attending Law School. So, no, I do not agree with the idiot who wrote that we are all Junior High drop outs. Most of us have at least college degrees. You should be ashamed of speaking about secretaries like this. We are your backbone and without us you would not even be a blimp in a partner’s world. Yes I am resentful because of idiots like you who think that we are supposed to slave over you. We are NOT your maids and we are NOT your mothers. Grow up and get a damn back bone.

If your secretary is not cutting the bill, TELL her. Set a time and meet with her and tell her your likes and dislikes. If she does not get it go to HR and demand a new secretary. Don’t mop around whining about your “terrible” secretary. I am proud to be a “go to” secretary at my firm, and trust me when I tell you, I do not spend my time on Yahoo or MATCH.COM like most of you. Get off your high horse and man up. How do you think partners got where they are? It was NOT by whining!!!

118: I hope your "editing" duties don't include proofreading. Also, multiple exclamation points are so high school.

Shouldn't you be collating and filing instead of spending time on ATL?

It would be easier to deal with an incompetent secretary than one who is perfectly competent but so bitter that she can't do anything without a long chorus of whining. We currently have a 1-5 ratio in our dept so on the face of it she has every right to be pissed off but I'm #4 in the chain so what is gained by moaning to me about her horrible workload? What is gained is to try and guilt me into doing all of my own work (instead of just 75% of it).

10 years ago secretaries did the amount she's doing now standing on their heads. Everyone in our dept does alot of their own work so she's really not doing any more than she would have done on a 1-1ratio in the old days (I temped as one then btw and it never had me on the verge of a nervous breakdown).

Someone said above that the most senior person gets to discipline the secretary. True enough but the other problem with the new system is that the passive aggressive secretary gets to make 4 other peoples day a misery whilst doing her work quickly and efficiently for the one at the top.

Oh yeah. The people who say 'treat your secretary like a human being'. Good one. In the modern system doing that is what has stamped the word 'doormat' indelibly on my forehead.

Bottom line? It's less frustrating to have a stupid secretary who tries hard than a smart one who just takes the piss and uses fake stupidity as an excuse for doing remarkably little.

I spit in your coffee.

Your Secretary