Summons of the Day: Get Your Government Off Of My Stoop
Open container laws are both massively annoying and haphazardly enforced. The mere concept of it offends the notion of freedom and remains the single best reason to move to New Orleans.
The law prevents anyone from drinking in public, which unfortunately requires lawyers to haggle over the definition of “public space” instead of going home and enjoying a frosty beverage.
Brooklyn resident Kimber VanRy got nailed with one of these ludicrous $25 citations and he is fighting it. He’ll probably lose, he was drinking a beer on his stoop when he had the misfortune of a cop rolling by. But he wasn’t drunk, he wasn’t throwing a party or using the beer bottle for lewd and deviant acts, he was just minding his own business in the middle of New York City when the government had to get all up in his grill.
Stupid laws beget stupid legal arguments. Look at what Legal Aid is arguing to defend this guy. The New York Times reports the opinion of one such lawyer, Steve Wasserman:
“This is an open question,” he said of the law. “There’s also a larger constitutional question, if a piece of your private property were being treated as if it were a public place. You couldn’t get arrested for drinking that beer in your kitchen. Now you’re sitting on your stoop. The stoop may be more like your kitchen than your sidewalk.”
Really, we have to get into a Con Law exam to answer this question? What if your kitchen has concrete counter tops while your sidewalk is made of cobblestone?
The cop who gave VanRy the open container ticket told him (after inquiring as to what kind of beer he was drinking) that if VanRy’s stoop had a gate, he would not have received a ticket. So, only people with gated stairs can enjoy some fresh air while drinking a beer?
The summer is almost at an end. In its waning days, we should all be able to enjoy some fresh air and green space with as much alcoholic libation as we can handle. I got ya’ $25 right here, NYPD.
Fighting for the Right to Drink Beer on His Stoop [New York Times]
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Not first? WHOA!!!!!
Hey Elie, let's not make this blog a soapbox for your own personal disagreements with the law. There's a lot of shit a lot of people disagree with, nobody cares.
I like beer. Yay blackouts!
#2, Elie is just trying to add humor by giving his personal perspective.
#2, I agree, Elie should try adding humor by other means.
I agree with 2. Just tell us what happened without the color commentary. And please stop trying to be funny.
What the heck is Legal Aide? Nice Engrish!
Instead of moving to New Orleans, you could move here to Las Vegas. Although we technically have open container laws, they're not really enforced unless it's inside your car, or you look and/or act drunk in public. Of course, though, none of those rules apply on 'The Strip' where you can walk somewhat drunk, just not falling down drunk (unless you have friends propping you up), with a 3 ft tall margarita held up by a neck strap :-)
Ehh, I live in NY, I like drinking on my stoop, I want to without getting a ticket, I forgot Conlaw. . . oh wait, one of those isn't true. :)
7 - If I am not mistaken, Louisiana does not even have an open container law for inside a vehicle. As long as the driver isn't boozing, you are good to go. NOLA is where it is at as far as drinking wherever you want.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_container
Go figure...Butte, Montana is where it is at.
#9 - I guess that explains why all my Lousyana cousins can ride around with their beer cooler in the back seat. Damn........
I drink on the streets all the time here in Bratislava. No one bats an eye.
If he's on his stoop, is he under the curtilage?
I'm with 13 -- if he's within his curtilage, he can do what he wants, as long as he's not naked.
No such thing as "your" sidewalk. You're responsible if someone slips on ice on the sidewalk in front of your house and gets injured, but it's New York's sidewalk. Let's not get confused here.
My brother is NYPD Bronx. He told me that this was an infraction and I was amazed (obviously I don't live in NYC).
His thoughts on this generally: Who cares. It's hot, and the guy is out drinking a beer on his stoop trying to relax. Leave him alone. Now, if the beer drinker is a jerk, gets lippy and/or is getting high, then he gets a ticket, and has his name run for warrants (which usually comes back positive).
the average guy on his porch drinking beer has a warrant out for his arrest?
if they cant arrest you on your stoop without probable cause or search the stoop without a warrant, then it sounds like it's private friggin property and not public space. get your hand off my bear and those calorie signs off my fast food bloomberg!
To get out of this in NYC, just argue the specifics of the statute. I am busy and not going to look it up, but here is the jist:
Statute requires statement of exactly what was being "drunk" cant say just "beer" must say brand of beer. Same with hard alcohol drinks, cant say vodka tonic, must say grey goose and tonic
Also, statute gives exceptions (street fairs, block parties), ticket must say there was not one going on.
My friend was a criminal court clerk and dismissed these all the time for not including the specifics. Good luck.
17 - The average guy who is dumb enough to piss off a cop while he has an open beer has a warrent out maybe? Not the same....its self-selected for jerks with bad judgment.
Fark the Nanny State
Sounds like the cop was trolling to meet his revenue quota.
15, let's not get confused here - even if it's not "your" sidewalk, it's still "your" stoop and nobody disputes that.
#6 is kind of an arse ...
Guys in my high school used to drink in public all the time. It was no big deal...
another good post elie.
the atl transition is going better than i expected.
"Open container laws are both massively annoying and haphazardly enforced. The mere concept of it offends the notion of freedom and remains the single best reason to move to New Orleans."
Appropriately enough, New Orleans is an open container, waiting for a hurricane to come and fill it...
Lawyers: I love them and they can spell too!
What a smart dumby. Instead of getting up and going inside when the cops come, he walks over to them and talks to them. He deserves the ticket.
As someone else has pointed out, the summons itself must specify the brand of alcohol being consumed. So drink your beer from a mug and if the cop asks you what brand it is, don't answer. Of course, the cop will still issue a summons and you will still have to go down to court and waste a morning challenging it before it gets thrown out.
hes lucky he just got ticketed. Here in new orleans you walk down the street sober as sober can be and cops pull up and dont find anything on you to arrest you for so they use the drunk in public crap to arrest you .it happend to me twice .when i got to the lockup i asked for a breath test i was told they dont administer them for my case .but they do for a dwi to prove the dwi conviction.you have to bond out for about three hundred .or stay in jail .then you go to court and they through the charge out .and your out of 300.oo i hate new orleans .oh lets not forget the obstructing the sidewalk i just stop and wait for someone who called me to catch up with me and the cops saw me standing and off to jail .i have so much hatered towards cop in new orleans .when something happens to one of them i feel good as bad as that sounds its true.
hes lucky he just got ticketed. Here in new orleans you walk down the street sober as sober can be and cops pull up and dont find anything on you to arrest you for so they use the drunk in public crap to arrest you .it happend to me twice .when i got to the lockup i asked for a breath test i was told they dont administer them for my case .but they do for a dwi to prove the dwi conviction.you have to bond out for about three hundred .or stay in jail .then you go to court and they through the charge out .and your out of 300.oo i hate new orleans .oh lets not forget the obstructing the sidewalk i just stop and wait for someone who called me to catch up with me and the cops saw me standing and off to jail .i have so much hatered towards cop in new orleans .when something happens to one of them i feel good as bad as that sounds its true.