The IRS Is Still Hiring
We have to at least entertain the possibility that the tanking economy could fundamentally change the Biglaw lifestyle that we have come to know and bilk. We could see flat salaries, tepid bonuses, and decreased job security over the next few years. Maybe this is the perfect opportunity to break out of the “top school-top firm-top shrink” pipeline?
Enter Don Korb, Chief Counsel of the IRS. As Tax Prof Blog mentioned earlier this week, Korb has been trying to recruit law students to the IRS.
And why not (if you’re into that sort of thing)? Nobody is planning on downsizing the IRS anytime soon. And you will likely get the kind of experience that law firms will respect once they get around to having paying clients again. Korb lays out what the IRS has done for his life in his recruitment brochure:
I have been both an associate and a partner in a law firm, a partner in a Big Six accounting firm, and an Assistant to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. Now I’m back leading the Office where I began my legal career. What has stayed with me throughout this journey has been the wonderful foundation in the tax law that I gained during my first stint in the Office of Chief Counsel, an experience that I believe cannot be found anywhere else.
In fact the IRS just reported a 72% job satisfaction rate. Granted, that number is out of all their employees. But go find four random people walking through your office today and ask yourself if three of them are happy.
The pay isn’t great. But it beats the bag out of what you’d get at the unemployment office.
The IRS Office of Chief Counsel — A Great Place to Start Your Tax Career [TaxProf Blog]
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FOURTH!!!!
Third to say taxes stink.
His name is Don Korb, not DAN. And he looks exactly like Bud Selig.
I agree with Don Korb. Chief Counsel is a good place to work for, if you're especially interested in taxes.
It is also a good place to work while going to school for your LL.M in tax from GULC. The IRS has a tuition reimbursement program.
And a lot of Chief Counsel lawyers, especially the younger set, like to look at ATL and have some schadenfreude over the travails of the BIGLAW associates.
Sucks to be you.
Your mom looks exactly like Bud Selig.
Taxes make me GULC all over myself.
I work for the Service and this place is BANANAS. B-A-N-A-N-A-S.
This place is BANANAS! B-A-N-A-N-A-S!
I work for the Service and this place is BANANAS. B-A-N-A-N-A-S.
This place is BANANAS! B-A-N-A-N-A-S!
Heeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooo???? I'm caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg foooooooooooooor theeee paaapppppeeerrr booooy! Hopin' he'd briiiinnnnggg meeee sooommeee goooood neeewwwwsss.
What the hell...?
You know this place is nowhere when the first and second commenters cannot even count.
Do they have opposable thumbs, one wonders?
The IRS is not a good place to litigate. Getting rubber-stamped all the time doesn't exactly hone your skills.
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/03/Give_a_fuck.gif
I'd rather stab myself in the face than do tax law at poverty wages in DC.
What does "top shrink" mean?
I am considering leaving Big Law for the IRS Chief Counsel. For Tax folks - that tend to be a bit geeky about the subject matter - this is a prerequisite to being a technical expert in a certain tax-related field.
The $80k+ pay cut for the 3-year commitment that I am looking at may arguably be worth it in the long run as DC is a very tax intensive town, and a large majority of tax partners are ex-government (IRS, Treas, Hill). In essence, when you come out, the employer's are buying your Rolodex for inside contacts.
In short, if you have a tax problem, who would you rather have represent you: (i) someone that has been on the 'inside' and knows how they think and the process works, or (ii) someone that hasn't - - everything else being equal?
Working for Chief Counsel is a mixed bag. On the litigation end, most of the cases are very basic. The only sophisticated "transactional" work is in D.C., and even there, you can easily end up in a totally dead-end department. However, most people I know at Chief Counsel are pretty content.
If you want to do serious tax litigation, you're better off going to Justice.
as a recent law school grad working in government law honors program, I can't say enough good things about it...and the pay is really not that bad. I suppose that there are days when I wish I was making more, but then I look at the clock, see it's 5:30, and go home.
I am considering leaving Big Law for the IRS Chief Counsel. For Tax folks - that tend to be a bit geeky about the subject matter - this is a prerequisite to being a technical expert in a certain tax-related field.
The $80k+ pay cut for the 3-year commitment that I am looking at may arguably be worth it in the long run as DC is a very tax intensive town, and a large majority of tax partners are ex-government (IRS, Treas, Hill). In essence, when you come out, the employer's are buying your Rolodex for inside contacts.
In short, if you have a tax problem, who would you rather have represent you: (i) someone that has been on the 'inside' and knows how they think and the process works, or (ii) someone that hasn't - - everything else being equal?
I would also rather stab 14 in the face than work for the IRS at immigrant wages in DC.
11 = smarter than the first and second commenters.
Last time:
IRS is BANANAS! B-A-N-A-N-A-S !!!!
It's a smart move. You can do a couple of years there while getting your LLM and then you'd have your foot in the door at top tax firms like Chamberlain Hrdlicka in Philly, Houston, or Atlanta (even if you didn't graduate from HLS and/or at the top of your class).
Then you enjoy great hourly rates, clients who seek *you* out (instead of vice versa), yearly firm trips to tropical locations, and normal business hours for excellent pay. Not bad.
His name is Door Knob
as a recent law school grad working in government law honors program, I can't say enough good things about it...and the pay is really not that bad. I suppose that there are days when I wish I was making more, but then I look at the clock, see it's 5:30, and go home.
FIRST!
I am GULCing your mom right now, 21.
Don't you mean fIRSt!
B-A-N-A-N-A-S!
26, do you even have opposable thumbs? I wonder this.
30- Yes, I use them to GULC your mom.
@ 25 is a clock watcher!!!
You are unfunny trolls.
G--U--L--C ...G--U--L--C ...GULC'ing your mom
@ 25 is a clock watcher!!!
Did a stint with their honors program last summer. Hours are great, coworkers don't hate life, and with the way the economy is going it's not like there may be all that many alternatives for new tax lawyers.
How does Elie still have a job? Geez...
Still GULCing your mom, 33.
It's big, it's heavy, it's wood... MORNING WOOD.
Don't you mean fIRSt!
Civil service protection is looking pretty good right about now. Government pays (a lot) less than BigLaw, but you get more responsibility earlier, and you have time to see your family (or to meet someone if you hope to have a family) or work out or sleep. Use that BigLaw salary to pay off those loans, then you can afford to choose where you really want to practice. (Granted, the V10 worshippers will always go for prestige.)
The only downside to the IRS job (aside from low pay) is that sudden silence whenever you join a conversation or walk into a social gathering and being loathed by all except your coworkers.
On the plus side, Judge Halverson began her career at the San Jose office of the IRS.
What is the pay at the IRS?
@43:
Depends on where you're stationed because of locality pay. An honors hire with a JD starts at GS-11 step 8 and LLMs start at GS-12 step 4. You go up one grade per year until you hit GS-14.
It's not hard to make $100k+ after 24 months, unless you're in the middle of nowhere with no locality pay.
@42:
There's a reason why Chief Counsel attorneys tell people they work within Dept. of Treasury and only mention IRS if pressed.
42 -
Come on, the Nazgul fear (including from people in powerful positions in business or law firms) is a powerful perk.
Meet Joe Black.
Hasn't the IRS been downsized over the last 8 years? I thought that since Congress couldn't agree to repeal the estate tax, the Administration did an end run and laid off most of the IRS attorneys doing estate tax. Did they just get shifted around instead of laid off?
I think what Elie means is, the IRS is hiring jds who went to an Ivy. I didn't, got a cpa, tax background, regional jd, llm. And they sure aren't interested in me.
Myfirst tier law school had a bunch of overqualified people apply to the IRS during my 3L year (in 2007).
We had a person that had started a free tax clinic, a CPA with 7 years of experience, and a student that had won the tax scholarship and had gotten an A in every tax class given by the school. There were other qualified canditates that I don't remember. Of all of the candidates, not a single one got a 2nd interview with the IRS. How sad.
48. This is 49. We should hang out.
@44
GS-11 to GS-12 is one year;
GS-12 to GS-13 is another year and a half;
GS-13 to GS-14 is competitive and you are only eligible to compete after a year and a half at GS-13.
So fours years to get to GS-14. What does a 4th year associate make?
51,
What does a laid-off fourth year associate make?
A GS-14 at max rate is something like $120K.
Better than $400 per week on unemployment, no?
Hmmm.... If I was a partner at a firm I would lay off the 6th and 7th year associates, not the 4th year.
@51:
You're wrong. It's 12 months per grade, up to GS-14. And up to GS-14 it's non-competitive. Getting GS-15 is competitive. That's how it is at least at IRS Chief Counsel. I don't know about other agencies, or non-Counsel IRS positions.
The Salary tables are posted at:
http://www.opm.gov/oca/08tables/
@51:
And I was assuming you start at GS-12 with an LLM, because most of the Counsel attorneys I know have one.
I guess you have to pay the premium to get people to work for the IRS.
Those of you crying for bananas and making monkey noises in this thread should be reported to the bar association for not having opposable thumbs.
Wait, don't monkeys have opposable thumbs? We came from monkeys.
"the 'top school-top firm-top shrink' pipeline" - very nice line, Elie. I would have killed the quotation marks though.
"the 'top school-top firm-top shrink' pipeline" - very nice line, Elie. I would have killed the quotation marks though.
@42
Love the "on the plus side" comment. Best pun I have seen on here in a while.
59--Only Old World monkeys (Asia and Africa) have opposable thumbs. New World monkeys (South America) don't. All apes (chimps, gorillas, orangutans) have opposable thumbs.
-Just a lawyer who took high-school biology fifteen years ago
Been working for Uncle Sam in DC since graduating law school. Wages are less than Big Law, but some agencies have programs that pay down your student loans for you. Other agencies are very generous with granting performance awards (cash payment and time off). Plus there are other benefits (free or subsidized gym, subsidized public transportation, flex time allows you to take every other friday off, discount on cell phone service).
It's worth finding out if there's an alumni from your law school who works for an agency you're interested in and asking how good the management is at doling out the bennies. Some agencies suck at it, and you'll be lucky to smuggle home an extra ball point pen per year. But I get about a 15- 20% bump on my base salary when I factor in performance awards and the student loan repayment.