SeconTTT!

TTThird

TTThird

The Fed should bail Heller out. If it goes, the other big firms will fall like domioes.

FourTTTh but FifTTTh

Gee, I wonder what those "in-person discussions" are going to be...

The other big firms might even fall like "dominos."

--5

Hopefully Thelen is next.

the long dark of dissolution??? the long dark what? please god don't leave me in suspense like that.

maybe some good will come out of this. the partners that don't jump ship to other firms might start up their own firms. and that requires associates, and support staff. and in the end, more jobs are created.

Mystal...good post and timely to do it this morning. Thank you.

MysTTTal

"pour a shot on the ground...?"

i will be intoxicating myself all day in my office on 27. all are welcome to join me until the announcement is made

I would be interested to read an open thread about whether AA had anything to do with Elie's time at HLS.

Seriously, 15. He's about 12 hours behind Law.com on this whole thing.

You people are absurd. Lat's here, all commenters can say is how awful he is in every post. Mystal comes, all of a sudden he's running ATL into the ground

Mystal's posts have been way more good than bad, and on the whole ATL is at least as good as it was under Lat, which was pretty damn good. His writing style is more naturally humorous than Lat's. He's made me openly laugh out loud on several occasions already, which is unusual from written humor. He should be more careful with typos that's true. But you've never known a smart funny person who scrambles letters? But it's worth more care on that to compensate for a weakness, there's no quesiton about it

I don't really know why I give a crap to post this. But looking ov3er the comments, I think to myself, does Elie think they represent majority opinion? There's no way they do. Good stuff, Elie, keep it up. A lot of the commenters here are just . . . hateful. There's not really a less priggish way to put it than that.

"the long dark of dissolution is almost at an end. "

wtf. Elie, you can't put together a FIVE SENTENCE post without making a mistake!?!

PROOFREAD - and suck it

"the long dark of dissolution is almost at an end. "

wtf. Elie, you can't put together a FIVE SENTENCE post without making a mistake!?!

PROOFREAD - and suck it

I think that the snarky liberalism is way more obnoxious than the typos (although those are distracting, as well).

10, 18, 19 -- Here's something to think about: what if "dark" is a noun? Get it? Just saying.

Again, how much do Lat and Mystal make?

Totally agree #17. I've been assuming these commenters just "love to hate" Elie-- worth saying though-- good job Elie.

Someone just ate my doughnut! Damn you BC! Damn You!!!

24
at least you don't have homeless alums stealing your pizza...

22
They make you butt hurt if you keep asking questions.

- Elie

when heller lost its ip group, that was the point of no return, unfortunately. good people at heller. ronald katz litigation was like tobacco money. easy to get, and a lot of it.

I think Mystal had something to do with Heller's demise. he must have worked there and written enough terrible briefs on their stationary that the Mystal taint infected them too deep. Heller in a hand basket.

That taint right.

Well, I guess it's all over for Heller. Polish up those resumes, associates (if you haven't already).

Coudert Brothers which disolved in September 2005 is still winding down.

Thank god I work at Venable. Good people, good work, stable environment. Baltimore is coming back baby!

I agree 28.

He may have even mis-spelled "stationery" in one of them.

The big firms are all hurting - except perhaps those rep'ing the new Mickey D's of i-banking, BoA/ML. The only safe place to be is in a regional/mid-size firm with a good litigation practice. Or in government, if you can face a lifetime of tuna fish sandwiches.

Venable? You are joking right?

33 - a lifetime of tuna fish sandwiches! Great remark.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....tuna

all the water from here to hell(er) won't wash out that fishy smell

Heller has long prided itself on doing the right thing. I hope the shareholders, in their last few weeks together, choose to do the right thing by looking out for staff members, many of whom are living paycheck to paycheck and entering a job market with prospects somewhere between gloomy and dismal. While paying four to eight weeks' severance firmwide would put a dent into whatever eventual payout (if any) the shareholders get, it could mean the difference between economic survival and not for the receptionists, mailroom staff, IT folks, records clerks, etc.

Maybe this isn't possible -- I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer. But they should try.

(And if they want to kick some the associates' way, too, I can get behind that.)

- Heller Associate

F*ck the IP group. I still say this is all their fault. You know why Haslam and Fram work so well together? Cuz Haslam's a giant pussy and Fram's a douche.

39 = post of the year

Anyone blaming the IP group is pointed in the wrong direction. Those folks held on far longer than they needed to. What hope is there with Matt following Barry and Phyllis into the nether region? It's interesting that HellerHighwater has not touched on the role that the useless line of non-attorney administration had in Heller's demise. The last time lawyers actually ran Heller was during Rosenfeld's days, and, frankly that was a great time, PPP be damned. But Rosenfeld and the other core folks who left Barry and Matt to wreck the culture share the blame too - who stood up for the old Heller, and in what numbers?

"Hopefully," 9? You're *hoping* for another longstanding SF firm to fail and to leave hundreds of loyal staff and attorneys without jobs in a shitty economic climate? And you're that confident that your own firm and your own legal career are immune to such hardships?

These are good people going through a very rough time. But you, on the other hand, are a douchebag. A complete fucking douchebag. You and the rest of the schadenfreude bunch.

There but for the grace of God go you all.

Blame for Heller's demise aside, Fram IS a giant douche.

41-your ignorance to the business aspects of the law firm is overwhelming. Rosenfeld is the one who brought in Phyllis because the original COO was retiring. That position always existed and exists in every other law firm because most lawyers don't know anything about management. Maybe you should look to the fact that a lot of management people left rather than implement Matt's terrible ideas and because he wouldn't listen to them. People have seen this coming for over a year. In fact, Matt was almost removed as Chariman last fall because of his mismanagement. The partners decided against it because they didn't want bad press.

41-

You're spot on. The IP defection was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. But the piling on of that straw started back with Barry. The firm used to be a place where money didn't matter much, and the people and clients did. That was a unique and special culture in this profession. Then, around the time of Barry, money became all that mattered, without much regard to the people. When Heller started to bring on more people who cared more about money than other things (like collegiality, work/life balance, etc), the seeds of the demise of the firm that had once been Heller were planted. That culture clash, and the ultimate victory of the business (i.e., bottom line/PPP) folks for the past 8-10 years (lead by Levin/Larrabee) over the rest explains the defections by those who cared more about money than the firm and the rest of the current situation.

Certainly the business/profit-minded folk won the internal firm battle for managment of the firm, but they are are primarily responsible for losing the war for the firm's long-term survival.

Not on their own, forced out.

For all the Support Staff, Heller will look good on a resume. For Management, not so much.

44 - Bad press? And departing shareholders isn't considered bad press? Good move partners.

Just got an invite to an all hands meeting re firm for today at 1:00 PT

What 41 said. And, 44? The difference was the power that Phyllis Gardner had -- she had it ALL, which I don't think is usual. And finally, the fundamental point of all of that -- Levin, Gardner, etc. had their unobstructed way for years, and it was a GIANT FAILURE. How many times were we told that in order to succeed, we HAD to implement these strategerical policies? And where did it lead the firm? All you admin-apologists wake up and smell the FAIL.

#14 - have at it and keep drinking.

Heller Highwater will be publishing a list of local watering holes in each S.S. Heller port of call where we've secured drink specials tomorrow, Friday, September 26th. Bring in your Heller Ehrman business card and/or pink slip.

http://hellerdrone.wordpress.com

I agreed with you, 50. I used to work for Heller and when they brought Phyllis Gardner in, everything went down hill. All I have to say is that the younger parterners DO NOT give dang to the staff who helped the firm be where they used to be.

52=ESL.

Is the meeting today at 1:00 or 3:00 PT?

My email invite says from 1:00 pm to 2:00 pm and I'm on the West Coast.

51 - had at it and still going... on to the second bottle and it's not even 11am

beautiful sf day

good memories killed by inept people.

The writing was on the great wall of China ---- when I made a decision to leave in 2006 -- Heller was on the verge of collapsing when they could no longer tweak, demoralize and dehumanize it's professional staff. There were too many layers of management --- micromanaging after all is not healthy.

Heller has the best professional staff --- it's sad that the firm did not care.

Last paycheck is this Friday.

56 -- Hope it's the good stuff. Could be a while before we have it again.

why doesn't heller ask paulson for a bailout ?

it's worth a shot

after all, lawyers are hated about the same as investment bankers

we should get treated equally

duh 58.

56
(why do you think i'm on the good stuff?)

The one thing surviving this disaster is the parasite that is VLG, who will now move on to infect another host.

Will there be any money for severance packages? Do tell ...

Any guesses on where VLG is going?

Are there first years that just started at Heller or are scheduled to start soon? What do you do if you are in their shoes?

65: panic

Which partners left at Heller are attracting the most attention from other firms? Who are the remaining rainmakers? In San Fran? New York? Seattle?

65: panic

What is going to happen to the first year class that hasn't started yet (since they were all pushed back).

Are they going to get anything or are they SOL?

57 -- are you me?

69: see 66, 68

Incoming first years should contact their school's career service office right now. And they should also panic.

i guess the market will be flooded (even more so) with lateral resumes...

The first year class has not been told anything, other than our start dates were pushed to January and that we were supposed to get a stipend (which I'm sure we are no longer getting). I hope something gets communicated to us soon...

I'm sure the (erstwhile) incoming first years will have something comunicated to them once certain partners/practice groups have figured out where they're going to land and if they're going to need to bring any of you along. But in the meantime, I'd be following up on any and every job lead out there, which you all probably are (or should have been) already doing anyway.

For some reason hellerehrman.com is blocked on http://www.hellervermin.com

Could somebody forward me that email?

manny.heller@gmail.com

thx

one hour to go...

Incoming first years:

If you did substantive work for -- or made a good impression on -- a particular Heller shareholder during your summer, try to get in touch with him/her. If the firm dissolves, shareholders will move on to other firms and may be willing to help you secure a position at their new firms or, at the least, get you an interview. Do, also, contact your law school OCS and get advice on how to work with a (good) recruiter.

The name of the game is taking the initiative. Don't wait around and hope for the best (stewing about the uncertainty doesn't do you any good) but, instead, take 1 or 2 concrete steps toward making and executing Plan B.

(P.S. Don't pay attention to the jaded attorneys on this post who likely are, themselves, panicking.)

Sure, it's scary. But other firms have dissolved and other incoming first-years have survived. You will, too.

78: right on!

I was a summer associate at a firm that dissolved a few years ago. I was offered a position, by and through the partner with whom I did most of my work, at his new firm.

If Heller was the only place you worked, and you didn't really hit it off with any particular partner, I wouldn't let that discourage you from contacting some of the partners you worked with if, nothing else, to ask their advice on what you should do. I find most people in these situations are willing to offer advice even if they aren't in a position (i.e. a rainmaker who can make demands at a new firm to bring on a first year associate) to help directly.

45 - This "denicening" of the old school mellower firms is happening elsewhere as well and with similar results. Witness what's been happening at Sidley LA - hours and profits up, collegiality and morale down, and associates flowing out the door and lined up at the exits. Firms that have a culture of professional collegiality and balance, even at the expense of maximum revenue, cannot allow themselves to be infected by people who do not share this ideal - some will survive the change as a shell of their former selves, others, well, see, e.g., Heller, RIP.

Just to clarify some points here, Heller shareholders (particularly the junior ones) are not reaping anything from this. Capital is gone; the year-end is gone; everything is gone. Concentrate your fire on the management team, fine, but just remember, the average junior shareholder had no say in what was happening. In the past several years, we have made less $$$ than senior non-shareholders as the firm failed to make budget time and time again.

81, I don't think anyone is blaming junior shareholders -- or even shareholders generally. I think it has been pretty clear that many junior shareholders (at least in SF) have been fighting to keep Heller the way it was when they were going through the ranks as junior associates in the late 90s early 00s.

news????

Here's some advice for incoming associates: (1) try contacting former Heller SHs, especially if they have already landed at a new firm (I doubt this will work, but try it nevertheless). (2) If you haven't done so already, send out your resume to as many firms as you can. Remember that in this economy the firms that might have a spot are not Orricks and Lathams but rather boutiques or AmLaw 200. (3) If you had decent grades and prior work experience, contact a bunch of recruiters, too - 80% will refuse to work with you, but the other 20% might take a chance. (4) If you were headed to VLG, see if you can make your resume more attractive to lit/bankruptcy people. The longer you wait, the worse it will get - there will be more and more ex-Heller resumes around.

Heller's done on Friday: http://legalpad.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/09/heller-dissolve.html

WOW. hopefully the first and last firm to do this. good luck to all.

Agree with 85: a number of good small-ish/mid-sized firms in SF ( like Keker, Howard Rice, Shartsis, etc.) whose recruits have the same profile as Heller recuits will be looking - but the sooner you get to them, the better. Go direct to the firm - don't go through a recruiter (firms are looking to limit use of recruiters because of cost)

No, 87, its not the first large CA firm to dissolve (see Brobeck), and it won't be the last (see Thelen).

89: i meant in this financial crisis - i know about brobeck. anyways, it's only wishful thinking. it probably won't be the last...

It's official; it's all over now. Heller is toast. Lots of good support staff will need jobs, and lots of incompetent managers will be jumping off buildings.

Heller Ehrman: 1890-2008 R.I.P.

Should I stay away from smaller firms? Is this problem likely to spread? Thinking about Patterson Belknap right now....but I also have offers from Latham, Kirkland, and other bigs. Any advice? Is it better to be at a big shop right now?

92 - If you're asking that question, you're too stupid for Latham or Kirkland. Go to Patterson where you won't be out-smarted by the rest of the first-year class.

I would say to 92 - all bets are off. Try to at least be in a "safer" practice area right now with good people. Ultimately, there's only so much you can do to protect yourself though.

92 here

No need to be nasty. I'm not pretending to be a know-it-all law student--I had a sincere query, however inane it may have been. Try not to be such a worthless human being.

As for "safer" practice areas--if I'm not interested in Lit., what should I consider? I'm interested in corp. work. Perhaps bankruptcy.