FIRST to say

F
I
R
S
T

First ?!?

Fourth!

2--i think i'm just stating the obvious, but you got pwned.
-1

Just out of curiosity, who here remembers a man named Tom Cestone from Forestdale?

Awesome.

Oh, and just wondering, did Elie lend his editing skills to the drafters of U Penn's letter? It reads like his handiwork (e.g., "a higher than usual acceptances").

Anyone know what firms?

what firm rescinded an offer?

9 - wake up!

What school is this?--University of Penn State?

i cant believe ATL cut off the final line of the email.. WE ARE PENN STATE!

Joe Pa is turning over in his grave.

Well, at least some people are acting rationally in this economy!

Molly-coddled law students of the world: The world doesn't owe you a job. That offer you're sitting on may not always be there. If you're still waiting to hear from other firms a couple weeks after your callback, it's not going to happen for you.

I wonder if the firms that have rescinded offers are interviewing Harvard and Yale kids. HLS fly-out week isn't even until next week.

It's UPenn State, Elie. Once again, you have failed.

Seriously, decline unwanted offers so coach can put me in!

-Second string 2L

But what about those of us that are still waiting for an answer from firms we had callbacks with a few weeks ago? Firms are taking longer to make decisions, which is making students ride out their offers. Would love to know which firms are already overbooked for next summer.

Hey Elie, here's an idea. . . why don't you try earning your pay and see who the firms were that recinded offers and callbacks.

Bababooey!!!!!!!!!!!!

I accepted my offer very early and canceled all my other callbacks and offers. Just to give others more opportunities.

Also, the longer you wait to except, the less enthusiastic the firm thinks you are about it. That is NOT the first impression you want to give in this economy, for a summer that is likely to end with above average numbers of "no offers".

20 - Great point. I accepted on the spot from a V10 firm in Chicago. They were thrilled and loved my enthusiasm.

Job offers are undoubtedly harder to come by this year. Check out this site with law firm hiring statistics: http://firmnumbers.wordpress.com

Outside of the very top firms that bleed associates in the first two years because of massive scale document reviews and need to have 90 summers regardless of the economy, many firms are going to be first come first serve this year. It would be silly to wait until Novermber unless your offers are from Cravath and Wachtell.

20 - Great point. I accepted on the spot from a V10 firm in Chicago. They were thrilled and loved my enthusiasm.

Job offers are undoubtedly harder to come by this year. Check out this site with law firm hiring statistics: http://firmnumbers.wordpress.com

Thanks a lot Texas. Not like we had to have another reason to shit on Texas.

Job offers are undoubtedly harder to come by this year. Check out this site with law firm hiring statistics: http://firmnumbers.wordpress.com

I am a 3L who was given until Nov. 1 to accept my firm offer, but had it rescinded last week while still waiting to hear from a callback that happened almost a month ago. 3Ls accept your offers if you haven't already! You don't want to have nothing in the middle of October when all firms have already hired and clerkships offers have gone out.

I am so screwed.

28 - Name - that - firm.

I don't get it...U Penn State??? UPenn and Penn State are TWO different schools. UPenn is in State College, PA with a branch campus in Carlisle, and Penn State is in Philly.

FIRST!!!

13 they are interviewing HLS and YLS still.

I know of one major firm that has "closed" its class. However, they fully intend to take any of the Harvard and Yale kids that we got this week or will see next week that want to come.

2l here: I just had an offer rescinded prior to the expiration date. Thankfully though, I was about to let the firm know that I had accepted an offer elsewhere.

The problem is the 45 day rule. It is screwing everything up.

Firms seem to be taking a long time to make decisions about certain candidates because they are waiting to see who accepts. I have waited over a month to hear back on some callback interviews. The delay causes me to sit on offers I have and probably draw out the waiting for some other poor schmuck.

Not a law student here. I say pull the trigger now young 2L's. Shit is hitting the fan and you might end up not having an offer at all. Also, if you wait until the last second the recruiting dept. will most definitely take note of this and it might hurt you in the long run. Stop stressing balls and take an offer and be thankful for having one.

I have heard that Blank Rome NY has rescinded at least one offer.

im in ur oci explodin ur offers

This post and the sad students on here are only half right. Accept your offers sooner than later or they may get rescinded. And yes, turn down those you don't want. But don't do the latter out of some altruistic belief that your spot will then get offered to someone else. Sorry...I wish that were true, but in this market, hiring partners WANT you to decline your offer so they can be rid of the risk of having so many of you, and they're not giving that spot to anyone else. They're just sucking up the slight risk that a small summer class will hurt them if the economy bounces back before expected.

29 -- Drinker Biddle & Reath. I also heard from a friend at Richmond Law that Pepper Hamilton pulled something similar.

28, 32, & 33 - Why don't you name which firms are rescinding offers?? The whole point of blogs like these is transparency of this sort of information. I'm sure everyone would appreciate the information!

This is a good post which makes a great point. I think I was able to receive an offer at my firm--where I am still employed--in part because one of my classmates was kind enough to timely turn them down before I did my callbacks. If you know you are not interested in a particular firm, courtesy requires that you decline your offer well before the NALP deadline. That's true as a general matter, and especially true in this market.

29 - Vault 100 firm in the Southeast. Was trying to change markets due to personal reasons (read: fiance moving to NYC). Top 10% at a T1 and I can't even get an interview. It's a hard market for 3Ls - don't take for granted that your unaccepted offer will still be there is two weeks.

This is a good post which makes a great point. I think I was able to receive an offer at my firm--where I am still employed--in part because one of my classmates was kind enough to timely turn them down before I did my callbacks. If you know you are not interested in a particular firm, courtesy requires that you decline your offer well before the NALP deadline. That's true as a general matter, and especially true in this market.

Please name the firms that are rescinding offers!

If law firms aren't going to adhere to the NALP guidelines and rescind offers before 45 days, why should students adhere strictly to the 5-offer rule? If any of my offers could explode, I'd like to keep as many others open as possible.

"Top 10% at a T1 and I can't even get an interview."

Coif at Yale and you're having trouble? UN-possible unless you have a habit of threatening your interviewers with evisceration.

Does anyone know if WILDMAN HARROLD has engaged in this practice?

FIRMS??

FIRST!!!

47--I was JUST going to ask that! Anyone know??

Please wake up---There are no guarantees any longer. Even if you accept an offer a firm can still tell you that you are not needed. They have absolutely no obligation to actually bring you on board. If the economy continues to tank, this is not out of the realm of possibility.

30, Penn State is in State College and UPENN is in Philly. Check the map!

It sounds like the lower-ranked Vault and regional firms are the ones that are pulling this BS. Is the lesson to accept the offer with the most national/prestigious firm that you get?

I heard that Wachtel rescinded all its summer offers.

Is it completely insane to turn down a V5 NYC (not Skadden) for a boutique litigation firm?

Drinker Biddle, Pepper Hamilton and Skadden Washington.

What about Skadden Washington?

Is it completely insane to turn down a V5 NYC (not Skadden) for a boutique litigation firm?

46 - that person obviously means Tier 1, not the T1-14 usage.

If you haven't heard whether or not you have an offer, it does NOT look good. BUT, if you really, really want to work at that firm, then call the recruiting department, say that you're appreciative of the callback, enjoyed everyone, and that you'd like to check the status of their decision about you. They may be waiting on others or may not have felt that you were that serious. The fact that you're calling them and telling them how interested you are in that firm specifically cannot hurt.

In fact, when I was a law student, I had to do that with the firm I summered with and worked for for 3 years. It was a regional firm, and they were focused on hearing back from the local kids first, thinking I wasn't as interested.

41/43 - see 38 above.

You may be right in your circumstance, but at this stage, believe me, rejected offers aren't being recirculated.

I heard that Shearman rescinded 5 NYC offers

Are some people holding onto offers because they want to wait and see if news pops up indicating which firms are not doing well?

55/58: I did it. The boutique I chose has hired a handful of laterals since I interviewed there. That beats layoffs...

Which firms have been rescinding offers?

Shearman NYC, Drinker Biddle, Pepper Hamilton and Skadden Washington?

What do people think about splitting in this economy? Will it make a SA more vulnerable to getting no-offered, or is it a good way to ensure you get at least one offer?

Shearman? Dubya-Tee-Eff?

I'm trying to split, although its common practice in the south.

65 -- Splitting is a bad idea, especially now. It just makes you look indecisive and as if you don't want to be there. Why would either firm want to hire you if they figure you'd rather be at the other one, or someplace better than both?

Might be good to avoid the firms that have rescinded offers.

65 -- Splitting is a bad idea, especially now. It just makes you look indecisive and as if you don't want to be there. Why would either firm want to hire you if they figure you'd rather be at the other one, or someplace better than both?

65/67 - programs are already being shortened, and there's hardly enough work for real lawyers, much less summers. This means, during 4 - 6 weeks of a split, it'll just be that much harder to make an impression on someone. Combine that with the decreased need to hire ANYONE, and I think splitting makes less sense.

Then again... if you're sure you can blow the doors off wherever you are, splitting could hedge your bets.

Still, I actually see no real need to split. You aren't likely to learn that much about a firm you didn't pick up during callbacks. If you're deciding among two geographic locations... then decide based on geography - the firm has nothing to do with it. You're adults...make choices and live by them. This aint summer camp. (OK, it is, but it shouldn't have to be.)

Splitting is a fine idea in some markets (mostly, though not exclusively in the southeast) where it's almost expected. I'm not sure I would try it in New York or Chicago...

Splitting is a fine idea in some markets (mostly, though not exclusively in the southeast) where it's almost expected. I'm not sure I would try it in New York or Chicago...

I'd rather have a firm rescind now, while you still have other offers open you can accept, than have a firm become oversubscribed and either cut people before the summer starts or be put into a situation where they are unable to give out offers to all deserving SA's.

Either way you look at it, we're in rocky economic times, nothing is a sure bet. Accept your offer, work hard this summer, and hope for the best.

Splitting is toelrated in the SE, because of market forces and the understanding that someone may want to look at west coast, DC, or NY. It is decidedly NOT, however, expected.

Which firms are shortening their summer programs? My offer letters state between 10 and 12 weeks. Isn't that normal?

67/73 -- The south/southeast? Can we just say Atlanta; nobody has summer offers to give anymore in CharloTTTe.

55/63 -- depends on the "litigation boutique." obviously, choosing williams & connolly over a nyc v5 is always a good move (but especially so in this economy).

don't forget -- those v5 firms will likely shift transactional people over to Lit before they do layoffs, leaving the newbies with doc review or nothing. and bonuses will NOT be that "special" this year or next, even for the v5. and stand by for NYC to raise taxes.

64 -- Not sure about Drinker Biddle, but Pepper Hamilton and Skadden DC have been dodgy of late with offers.

Phil Philly

75/77- Most of the large firms in Nashville endorse splitting; in fact, I don't think anyone in Nashville offers a full summer program anymore.

Charlotte isn't as much of a splitting market, though MVA is first half only (assuming they haven't canceled their summer program).

76 - its mostly the 12s that have gone to 11 or 10.

fried frank is rescinding all offers from the schnectady office.

splitting is fine IF the second part of the summer is spent with a firm that you did a 1L gig with. the first firm understands that you sort of "owe" this firm a few weeks for taking you on as a 1L. it's a REAL crappy move NOT to do a 4-5 weeks with the 1L firm -- like a slap in the face that you may regret one day.

and it's always good to hedge your bets. either firm can go belly up or no-offer you for econ reasons. NO firm is gonna no-offer you b/c you split w/ your 1L firm. if they do, you don't wanna work there anyway.

59,

I did just that today. Got me the rest of my dings. Which will allow me to accept my offer. Good stuff.

fried frank is rescinding all offers from the schnectady office.

splitting is fine IF the second part of the summer is spent with a firm that you did a 1L gig with. the first firm understands that you sort of "owe" this firm a few weeks for taking you on as a 1L. it's a REAL crappy move NOT to do a 4-5 weeks with the 1L firm -- like a slap in the face that you may regret one day.

and it's always good to hedge your bets. either firm can go belly up or no-offer you for econ reasons. NO firm is gonna no-offer you b/c you split w/ your 1L firm. if they do, you don't wanna work there anyway.

splitting is fine IF the second part of the summer is spent with a firm that you did a 1L gig with. the first firm understands that you sort of "owe" this firm a few weeks for taking you on as a 1L. it's a REAL crappy move NOT to do a 4-5 weeks with the 1L firm -- like a slap in the face that you may regret one day.

and it's always good to hedge your bets. either firm can go belly up or no-offer you for econ reasons. NO firm is gonna no-offer you b/c you split w/ your 1L firm. if they do, you don't wanna work there anyway.

84: Good job. It sucks to be dinged, but they weren't doing you any favors by making you wait either. Now you can move on with your life and stop being anxious. Congrats on accepting!
- 59

2L with a 3.2 at T4.
Just accepted an offer, was holding onto 3 offers all within 4 spots V50 waiting to see where the sh** hit the fan. But I seriously don't want to get screwed in this environment.

I don't know who any of you people are, but I do know the following:

a booger just dropped out of my nose and onto my blotter

what firms shouldn't I go to in Chicago? seriously

30 - You are an idiot.

Learn to spot a joke, and how to read a map.

Sidley Chicago is supposedly a disaster right now. The office is all disorganized. Don't know why.

Gallion Out.

89 -- good move. i was doing the same thing. but i don't think the sh*t will hit the fan for a few months now, so it's best to just suck it up and choose something.

firms should have to post their financials on NALP.

when do the NALP forms regarding this past summer (08) come out??

If a firm hires 40 summers and only wants to give offers to 35 who are they going to cut? The summers that worked hard all summer, sucked up to partners, and made friends with the associates or the summer that stayed there for 4 weeks and wrote 2 research memos? Unless you have stellar credentials from a T5 school or your dad's name is on the firm I wouldn't recommend splitting.

fried franks rescinds all offers in talahassee and detroit.

96 - splitting doesn't mean 4 weeks. you can do 8-9 weeks with a firm first then do 4 weeks with your 1L firm to get your offer. nobody is gonna care. it's expected.

Is a split OK to return for a short summer at a 1L firm to pick up the offer? I don't want to look indecisive, but when firms are decreasing their permanent offer rate I'd damn sure like to have a back-up.

what is the typical length of a summer program?

13 weeks

Some of my classmates are holding on to offers they intend to turn down until they get their NALP reimbursements. I admit I thought about doing that too, but I finally made a decision last week, accepted an offer and turned down the rest. I hope the reimbursements are forthcoming!

I turned down an offer from St. Petersburg to accept another in Miami.

Did I make a mistake?

~Man from Tallahassee

So, splitting with your 1L summer firm (for a few weeks) is okay, but splitting between two new firms will be looked upon badly and will likely increase the odds of being no-offered at at least one of the firms? No way to hedge your bets it seems. I know a lot of people waiting to see which firms go through troubles/layoffs before deciding, but it seems like that's not the best idea anymore.

my offer was just rescinded from bingham's dubai office : ( I learned arabic for nothing!

There are other law firms in Dubai who would just love to have an associate who speaks fluent Arabic.

There are also law departments in major oil companies who would love attorneys knowledgeable in Arabic.

I suggest you contact the much-maligned ~In House Counsel. At the very least, he can give you tips about flying in an helicopter to exotic locales while waving hello to the breadlines below.

44 - All the firms that you are holding offers to are rescinding offers!!! Pick one... QUICKLY!

106, 105 is flame.

rumor is that my v5 office is not calling back anyone from HLS because the class is already filled. those who are late get no fruit cup.

109, what firm? PLEASE?

If you have to refer to your prize as "fruit cup," you have already lost in the game of life.

Shearman is tanking... seriously!

oh come on 111 --- 109's comment was funny.

I just accepted my Shearman Paris offer-Oh la la

I'm going to stick with don't split. Why bother splitting with your 1L firm --what else are you going to learn about the work and culture that you didn't before?? I've always assumed the splitters were less interested in the firm (and most splitters did in fact prove the point by choosing the other firm). If the firm is giving less offers this year, and you're not from HYS, do you really want to risk it?

check out the s&c entries on this site:

http://firmnumbers.wordpress.com/

apparently, they're not giving offers to callbacks anymore. used to be quasi-automatic offer. and s&c has been pretty busy relative to others!

APPARENTLY, THEY REALIZE THAT ONCE THEY'RE DONE PUTTING THE FIRES OUT, THERE WILL BE LITTLE WORK LEFT!

check out the s&c entries on this site:

http://firmnumbers.wordpress.com/

apparently, they're not giving offers to callbacks anymore. used to be quasi-automatic offer. and s&c has been pretty busy relative to others!

APPARENTLY, THEY REALIZE THAT ONCE THEY'RE DONE PUTTING THE FIRES OUT, THERE WILL BE LITTLE WORK LEFT!

check out the s&c entries on this site:

http://firmnumbers.wordpress.com/

apparently, they're not giving offers to callbacks anymore. used to be quasi-automatic offer. and s&c has been pretty busy relative to others!

APPARENTLY, THEY REALIZE THAT ONCE THEY'RE DONE PUTTING THE FIRES OUT, THERE WILL BE LITTLE WORK LEFT!

First!

primero enero

at my DC firm, we're getting super annoyed at the 2Ls who have had offers for over a month and are waiting until the absolute last minute to let us know. not the way to say you're excited to come, and could definitely pose problems at the end of the summer when we make decisions. especially if the economy keeps spiraling downward.

This is scary shit. What the fuck are we supposed to do??

lol @ 121, yeah ok.

109, no way. A firm will either (1) take HYS summers that accept and no-offer non-HYS summers or (2) take HYS summers and revoke accepted summer offers accordingly.

what firms like associates who speak fluent arabic?

123, you don't think that partners and associates on hiring committees take note of the stragglers? Of course they do.

124, your misreading 109. it's not that they aren't going to honor offers to HYS students, it's that they won't be making any to HLS students b/c the class is filled (for the office, not the firm). so at this point (1) isn't an option, and they are not going to revoke anyone's outstanding offer to make it an option.

124, you're misreading 109. it's not that they aren't going to honor offers to HYS students, it's that they won't be making any to HLS students b/c the class is filled (for the office, not the firm). so at this point (1) isn't an option, and they are not going to revoke anyone's outstanding offer to make it an option.

Some firms have invited the students they've offered to dinners that are three or more weeks in the future. It's not the students' faults if they are waiting until the dinner to make a decision.

It's one thing to just be sitting on an offer, but there are some legitimate reasons to wait.

123, I'm on the hiring committee, and believe me we are keeping track of everything so everyone on the hiring comittee knows how long it's taking for people to accept. it does NOT go unnoticed.

126 - "stragglers" could be some of the most sought after people because they are considering peer or better firms. further, in years past others have made firms wait until December 1st before deciding, 45 days is a vast improvement. you can't Trig me with your baseless assertions.

126: stragglers as compared to the rest of the summer class accepting the summer offer earlier than said straggler, or as compared to how long it took the 'straggler' accept the offer after the got it? or both?

Can I please get advice on what firms NOT to go to in Chicago?

2. Does anyone have any tips on how to realistically assess a firms economic stability one you have received an offer?

130, I am on the hiring committee for each of the V10 and you have no idea what you're talking about.

Most people who are sitting on offers have a legitimate reasons.

I have only one offer at a great firm, but it's not in the city I want. I'm holding out on two firms in my target market that are dragging their heels. If those two firms would hurry up an make a decision, I would stop sitting on the offer.

look at their debt and the types of clients they have; are they clients paying up; is the firm diverse in practice areas?

Question: What do you guys think about splitting between the same firm but two different offices? Do you think the same problems arise in this situation that arise if you split between two different firms?

splitting offices is generally not a problem, although this can vary by practice group

V5 associate

Elie no one cares about your moral proclamations ("could you please -- for the love of God -- accept one of them"). Next.

where can you find info on firm debt????

2L here who just got an offer at Weil Gotshal NYC (highest-ranked firm I interviewed at). Still waiting on another offer -- should I just take Weil given the mad cash money they are making right now?

ask them for a copy of their balance sheet-duhhh

is cahill a safe bet?

Anybody know anything about Vinson & Elkins Houston?

Ax them for a copy

*accepts offer*

What about Ulferson Hoggins in Dubai?

Trust me, firms do take note of how late someone accepts their offer. It does get talked about in recruiting meetings and people are mentioned by name. It all comes down to numbers and especially in these times recruiting offices are super anal about their numbers. Everything gets talked about...

148 = legal recruiter instilling false fear into 2L's in order to make her job easier.

121/130, and whoever else-
I waited about 5 weeks to accept my offer. I had another competing offer, and I was waiting to hear back from a couple of other firms with whom I had callbacks. I guess I naively thought that NALP's 45 days meant 45 days; it didn't occur to me that accepting toward the tail end of that period would indicate lack of enthusiasm. To the contrary, I am very enthusiastic about the firm whose offer I chose, and I know it was the right choice. Would you recommend that I get in touch with an associate or two just to reiterate my interest in the firm? I don't want to start off with one strike against me...

Skadden DC won't answer any more questions about their situation. Their recalcitrance is making me nervous.

121/130, and whoever else-
I waited about 5 weeks to accept my offer. I had another competing offer, and I was waiting to hear back from a couple of other firms with whom I had callbacks. I guess I naively thought that NALP's 45 days meant 45 days; it didn't occur to me that accepting toward the tail end of that period would indicate lack of enthusiasm. To the contrary, I am very enthusiastic about the firm whose offer I chose, and I know it was the right choice. Would you recommend that I get in touch with an associate or two just to reiterate my interest in the firm? I don't want to start off with one strike against me...

125: A lot of firms like associates who can speak fluent Arabic. Especially if you can read Arabic. These will typically be larger firms with international dispute or international corporate practices.

135: Um, not hearing back from another firm you like better isn't really a legitimate reason to a firm that has already given you an offer. It's like the girl you asked out for prom not giving you an answer until she hears back from the quarterback. Sure, he's the quarterback, but that doesn't make you feel any better about it. If you're holding off on accepting an offer, the ONLY logical explanation to that firm is that there is some other firm that you think you might prefer more (whether or not you've gotten an offer or had your callback there). Period.

And, ANY indicator of reduced enthusiasm is probably being noted right now...

Elie, please make a list of shame (firms who have rescinded offers). tyia.

148 is full of shit. You have the entire summer to be judged on, it's not going to make a bit of difference. Truth be told, recruiters have it much easier this year because of the 45 day deadline. In previous years people would sit on offers far longer.

Opinions on Paul Weiss vs. Dewey?

Skadden DC has not rescinded any offers.

Paul Weiss is a great place to work if you have no friends, hobbies, or family.

1. Whatever the system might have been back in the day, I'm sure lawyers on the hiring committee once struggled over similar decisions themselves. I can't imagine them not being sympathetic to an offeree trying to make an informed decision. In fact, the whole system - partners e-mailing, cocktail receptions, fancy dinners - is set up to give prospective SA's as much exposure as possible to each respective firm.

2. Why an immediate acceptance might indicate a real enthusiasm to join that particular firm, it might also show either a lack of other comparable offers, or an impulsive, poorly reasoned decision. I have discussed my other options openly with the partners at the firms which I am considering. They have all acknowledged the competing advantages of each firm under consideration. When I do ultimately decide, I'd imagine that the hiring partner at the firm where I end up will know that I'm there because I really wanted to be there just as surely as the offeree who accepted on the spot.

Best of luck to everyone!

Goodwin Proctor said I was too late-uggh

160 - Apparently they had filled their quota of Summer Associates who can't spell the name of their firm.

i don't want to work for a TTT firm that would judge me based on how long it took me to accept their wonderful offer.

do college football teams give sh*t to the new recruits who took longer to accept their offers? how idiotic.

any firm worth a damn would not be pathetic/desperate enough to disadvantage someone who wanted to take the NALP-imposed 45 day deadline.

they said spelling was not a requirement; go figure

160 please elaborate, or is it flame??

What is up with Skadden DC? Thats messed up.

gdc :(

Is it really acceptable to ask a firm for their balance sheet?

if i had followed this advice too closely i would have accepted heller a week before the news broke, and cancelled all my remaining callbacks.

What is going on at gdc? What offices?

nothing is going on at gdc, that gdc face guy just enjoys posting...

167 - yes. Make sure to also request the entire partnership's tax returns for the past five years.

I hope nothing is going on at GDC. I am leaning there over Latham LA., but want to know if that is a dumb move in this environment.

latham definitely >>> gdc if you care about getting an offer. gdc will drop you if your 2l grades don't stay up. not a good risk to take in this environment.

How high does gdc require you to keep your grades?

Can people comment on the situation at Skadden Chicago? They are the best offer I have in Chicago and I want to know if they have enough work in transactional practices and if they're doing any stealth layoffs.

Can people comment on the situation at Skadden Chicago? They are the best offer I have in Chicago and I want to know if they have enough work in transactional practices and if they're doing any stealth layoffs.

174 - If you have to ask, you don't have the right attitude to work there.

Drinker Biddle has not rescinded any offers.

if you're a 3L sitting on an offer from a firm at which you didn't summer, you're a fucking idiot.

179 - please explain your logic?

Skadden Chicago is doing better than Skadden DC. I would weigh other options if you can.

This email tells students to limit the number of offers held open to FIVE?! I got a lot of offers this year, not to brag (well...a little), but the most I kept open at any point was three. It's just disrespectful and unnecessary to have FIVE. If you're that confused, then you probably won't love any of those places that much more than any of the others.

181, could you say why it would be good to weigh options other than Skadden Chicago? Is it lack of work in transactional groups, poor quality of life, or some other reason?

Do Paul Weiss NY associates share offices?

No, 184, they share stories about how they failed to crack the V10.

zing

oh wait, i didn't either

Please don't worry about how long it takes you to decide, as far as how your future firm will perceive you. Your recruiter may notice but will probably just understand that you're making a tough decision, as he or she did how ever many years ago. But honestly, lawyers are busy people, and they are not sitting around discussing you and how long it took you to decide, and they certainly won't hold it against you next summer. You will be fine.

Recruiter: Summer Associate Positions Could Decline by Up to 35%
http://www.abajournal.com/news/recruiter_summer_associate_positions_could_decline_by_up_to_35/

I had summer offers at both Gibson and Latham in LA and both firms told me that they both have a rule that they expect your overall grades at the end of 2L year to be equal or higher than the 1L grades they hired you with. Lower 2L grades is therefore grounds for being no-offered by both firms in LA at least.

189 is a lying liar.

this is effing depressing. Is ATL hiring SAs? I'll shine your shoes real nice.

187- Thank you.

189- If true, good reason not to go to either.

190- Thank you.

No, no, thank YOU, 192, for your riveting contribution.

It should be noted that even if you accept an offer, firms are under no obligations to follow through and actually employ you -- I know a bunch of B-school students who had accepted offers from Lehman Brothers, for instance.

194 - But they are likely to at least give you some compensation if they rescind, unless they completely go under.

However, it can be a good idea to sit on offers. Makes the firms know you have options and are a sought after candidate.

Nice South Park reference!

I'm the senior associate in charge of hiring for my boutique law firm (35 lawyers). We hire 4 clerks each year and make as many offers for permanent employment as makes good business sense (never less than 2, in my tenure). I will tell you - if people dick me around over accepting my offer, wait until the last minute to accept, or give me any hint they are doing it with less than total enthusiasm it will count against them come permanent hiring decision time. And motherfuckers, we pay at the big firm market rate for a 1900 billable hour requirement. You should be begging and pleading for my jobs.

Why? You have a billable requirement.

Bratty law students on this board are as deluded as the "OH MY GOD ITS THE BOTTOM BUY NOW" fools who have discovered Dealbreaker in the past few weeks.

This is not a 2002 recession. Normal rules do not apply.

None of you clowns have ever seen a multi-year downturn. I would suggest asking your parents what the early 1970's were like.

Why/when would firms give/have given compensation if they rescind? What do you think they owe you? Your offer doesn't contain any liquidated damages provision.

I wonder how some of you numbskulls ever got Big Law acceptable grades in Contracts. Law firms are freaking at-will employment even after you start working there as a full time associate.

182- FLAME!! And you're especially lame for pretending to be a law student. Knowledge of the NALP rules is a given for a REAL 2L at a non-TTT school.

To all- It's obvious firms ARE going to hold it against those DISILLUSIONED DEEBAGS who hold out on their offers. Even a TTT law student knows enthusiasm and decisiveness impresses and "hanging around, hanging around all day with the check, check, check" can be an automatic DING~! come offer time AFTER the summer IF (and that's a very probable "if") firms overhired for their summer classes.

HTH
I really hth, my fellow elite and prestigious 2Ls.

189 - so if everyone's grades are below their 1L grades, they don't hire anybody? smart policy, especially since they already invested thousands in recruiting you (yes, it's a sunk cost, but still). and ALL b/c you didn't spot a couple more issues on your Federal Courts exam. smart policy.

OR, what if the top 2% from Yale gyy gets lower grades his 2L year (p's instead of H's) but the top 30% guy from GULC gets higher grades? i guess gdc will ding the yale guy but give an offer to the gulc one? no wonder law firms are failing.

List of Shame from comments:

Blank Rome - NY
Drinker Biddle
Pepper Hamilton
Skadden - DC
Shearman - NY
Fried Frank - Schnectady, Tallahasse, Detroit
Bingham - Dubai
Goodwin Proctor

Please add / clarify folds

202-

189 said "IT"S GROUNDS" for being no-offered. He didn't say, "they don't hire anybody." Though they likely wouldn't hire you on the grounds that you lack even a high schooler's reading comprehension level.

HTH

Shout out to JoePa and the University of Pennsylvania State in continuing their climb to the top of their conference (and the BCS rankings--who'd have thought an ivy leaguer, you know?...) and finally break their 9 game losing streak against MU!!!

204 -- wow -- that's really helpful to say it's "grounds" for not being hired. not saying "good morning" to a partner is "grounds" for not being offered too. what's your point? i interpreted "grounds" as similar to saying that "killing a secretary is grounds for dismissal" -- ie, it's virtually automatic. if it's not automatic, what's the point of even bringing it up? ANYTHING can be "grounds" for not getting an offer. what i care about is whether there's a strong possibility of not getting an offer for having lower 2L grades.

Why are people even asking if two of the most transcript-conscious firms out there will care if your grades drop?

And no, a fluctuation of .05 or even .1 is not a "drop." Getting a bunch of B's and B+'s is a drop.

206ttt-

I didn't write it. I didn't say it was helpful.

LOL at changing your main concern to a "strong possibility" now that you realize you were wrong in your interpretation of the word "grounds." ROFL!!

AND THEN, after you change your definition of "grounds" you say "ANYTHING can be grounds" for not getting an offer. LOLOLOLOLOL.

Not saying good morning=worse grades than you had last year? Yeah, ok. One is trivial and easy to control. The other is neither, a given and, EVEN BEFORE you read that post, you should have known that getting shitty grades is grounds (in the definitional sense) for a no-offer.

HTH

ALSO

Good luck to everyone in the EXTREME COMPETITION that will be next year's SA class. It's gonna be like being a 1L at a TTT!!!

ILOVEMYSELF

is latham transcript conscious? i never associated them with being very selective. when i think "transcript conscious," i think dpw or williams&connolly, not latham.

197,

You sound like huge prick. "My offer"? you're not even a partner. Go fuck yourself. No wonder people hate you.

Good Times!

List of Shame from comments:

Blank Rome - NY
Drinker Biddle
Pepper Hamilton
Skadden - DC
Shearman - NY
Fried Frank - Schnectady, Tallahasse, Detroit
Bingham - Dubai
Goodwin Proctor

Please add Venable Baltimore and Katten Charlotte

Fried Frank doesn't have any offices in those cities. People are really screwing this board up.

can anyone confirm if goodwin procter has actually rescinded offers, and if so in which cities?

Fried Frank - Wasilla has conducted mass layoffs

Bingham doesn't have a Dubai office either.

189 here:

If any of you don't believe me, I have emails from recruiting coordinators at GDC and LW when I asked about their grade policies.

I wound up going with Munger, so I really don't have anything invested in either firm, but from talking with associates and past summers, they told me that if your grades slip, you better have a good explanation (i.e. my mom died, I spent a month in the hospital, etc.). Otherwise, because they ask for your transcripts before making you a full time offer, an unexplained drop in grades is one of the established grounds for a no-offer.

210--I'm not sure about Gibson since I didn't get an offer there, but Latham told me flat out that they do expect you to keep up your grades.

Look, if you have one really hard class and get a lower-than-normal grade, you'll be fine.

The Van Winkle Firm is phasing out its Catskills office over the next several months.

Re: Slipping Grades. Obviously, a firm is not going to be pleased if you start raking in straight B's after posting a pretty impressive GPA, but a slight fall off (a 3.4 one semester when you had a 3.6 cumulative last year) or a lower grade in a hard class is not going to be the death knell to your career.

211: You sound bitter. I chair the hiring committee. The shareholders rubber stamp my recommendations - in three years I've not had a single one questioned. 2Ls who know their shit know to kiss my ass.

It could be worse fellow 2Ls, we could be 1Ls:

http://abajournal.com/news/recruiter_summer_associate_positions_could_decline_by_up_to_35

I'm sure this will be a post by late next week, but just for those who were interested now.

You know, it doesn't help when firms take forever to get back to you after a callback. I waited on one for about a month before I finally decided to just go with one of the other firms I'd gotten an offer from. I still have no idea how long that firm would have made me wait before making a decision.

skadden chicago is doing just fine.

224--I fail to see how that article shows a brighter side for 2L's rather than 1L's. They're talking about the summer of 2009--the positions 2L's are interviewing for now. For all we know, by next August (when current 1L's will start interviewing) things will have turned around.

Skadden Chicago had to many SA's last summer and no offered a ton of peopl

WTF? How many idiot posters are there? Some idiot posted "goodwin proctor" and everyone believes it despite the fact that the poster spelled the name incorrectly.

I cannot believe these are law students.

I am a recruiter and if you wait until the deadline to respond it isn't held against you later. I have too many candidates to remember by the end of the summer who accepted when. Just don't ask for an extension - learn to make a decision.

224 - It's always going to be a tough year for you to get a job. Dumbass.

It sucks to be a 2L. The only thing 1L's are losing out on is the absolutely useless 1L summer associate positions - which hopefully will be eliminated in this downturn, never to return.

Go work for a judge your 1L summer.

223, you still dont get how you come off. Are you that insecure that you need to go on an online forum to anonymously brag that 2Ls must "kiss your ass." I feel bad for the 2Ls who must be resigned to work at a boutique with a prick like you.

As for me, not feeling bitter at all, just dislike the bad name our profession gets from people like you.

I am but a 2L. But it seems bizarre to me that , when making decisions regarding offers at the end of the summer, recruiters/hiring committee members would give ANY weight to the timing of the student's acceptance of the summer offer a year earlier.

First of all, I would think that firms WANT their prospective summers to shop around. Wouldn't they prefer somebody who has done his research, who has talked to people at other firms, who is confident that his decision to accept at their firm is well-informed and well-considered? Especially in this economy, it makes no sense to choose solely based on Vault rankings or some other superficial-but-easily-accessible resource. It took me a solid month after my offers came in to really talk to enough knowledgeable people. My decision-making process took a bit of time, but led me to a firm that I WANT to work at. I would hope (actually, I would expect) that my future employers would have the perspective to say, "this person was pursued by other firms, weighed his options, and chose us because he sees something in us that he doesn't see in the other firms." It seems to me that this is exactly the right way to go about things- my firm should know that when I start in the summer, I'm committed to them because I got all the other bullshit out of the way this fall.

Second, if a firm is going to ding someone at the end of the summer based on when the student accepted the summer offer, why not just dispose of him when he (tardily) accepted the offer in the first place? Assuming SAs don't do real/important work, why would a firm pay upwards of $30k to somebody who they're inclined to ding anyway? Maybe if the SA exhibited signs of discontent or a bad attitude throughout the summer, I could see the timeliness of the acceptance of the summer offer being mentioned. But in any other case, I can't seriously see the timeliness of the acceptance of the summer offer to be a make-or-break factor.

I took almost 6 weeks to accept. I called or e-mailed several associates and partners with whom I interviewed or otherwise met (a couple of whom are on the hiring committee). All of them seemed genuinely happy that I had accepted their offer. I really find it hard to believe that there is some dark cloud overshadowing me from now until the end of July because it took me a few weeks to research firms.

Echoing 234. Expect loyalty and commitment from those who accept after careful consideration. From everybody else, expect nothing more than that we show up to work on time, our eyes firmly fixed on the exits. Or is that the new paradigm anyways?

again, anyone know when the NALP forms come out

234, I'm on the recruiting committee at a high-V firm and you are dead on. We don't pay any attention to timing. If somebody accepts an offer right away I may even wonder if he/she didn't get any other offers. We would rather have people that thought through the process than someone who ended up with us by default.

But I agree with whoever posted about getting an extension - don't do it, it makes you seem indecisive.

229, you should take all of this w/ a grain of salt. at least one other firm named has not rescinded any offers. i'm sure there are some posters naming firms b/c they're upset about not getting an offer at all.

238 - dead on. Anyone with an ax to grind can stir up a commotion. Such are the perils of an anonymous message board.

While there are certainly posters on here who give valid insider information, there are also those who are just making stuff up, for whatever reason. One-off comments that are not substantiated with any backing evidence should be viewed very suspiciously.

rescinded offer- Sidley Chicago

240 - please elaborate. An offer you have not yet accepted? Told no more room at the inn. Or an offer you had already accepted?

240: Did Sidley Chicago rescind their offer by phone or email/regular mail? What was said?

239: 238's claim that "at least one other firm named has not rescinded any offers" is as thinly substantiated as the other posters' comments claiming the opposite. Plus, what measure of "backing evidence" would satisfy you? 5 comments? A press release? Stool sample?

CONFIRMED:

Greenburg Traurig NY has rescinded offers to everyone who has not yet accepted. Apparently the class is closed

Wow, it really sucks to be one of those people who is forced to apply to shitty Biglaw sweatshops in NYC!

- T14 top 5% sitting on 5 offers in markets that pay the same as NYC, don't require me to work as much, and don't pull the kind of shit that is going on in this thread! Suckers!

I spoke with our recruiting partner on Friday. We're actually in a different bind. We're doing great because of the types of work we focus on, litigation and financial restructuring. But while we can usually count on about a 1 in 4 acceptance rate, this year, of those who have notified us so far it's 3 in 4. So we're nearly at our hiring limit and we still have Harvard and Yale to fly out and we haven't yet heard from more than half those with outstanding offers. We may have to rescind some offers because of over-acceptance, but likely we'll just tell the last hires that competition will be tough for offers after next summer and it won't be the near-guarantee that it usually is.

246- what do you mean by "we'll just tell the last hires that competition will be tough for offers"? Do you mean, this will be the case for people who accept late?

232: You are obviously bitter that you didn't get a firm job your 1L summer, but don't take that out on the rest of us who do!
~T14, Top Firm as a 1L :-)

240: whaaaaaat?

213 - I work in Katten's Charlotte office and you are completely mistaken.

If Pepper is taking back offers, why are they still conducting additional callback interviews?

Nutter is rescinding in Boston.

245: so you're admitting you live it a TTT city?

What sane person would agree to work for a firm called Nutter?

Seriously? Is Elie really going to pretend he didn't have his ass handed to him by the commentators in the Dechert thread? Is he going to ignore the Dechert situation and have Kash write all the posts from now on?

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/10/dechert_layoff_exaggeration_but_caution.php

If you need to ask people on this blog for advice about whether to accept an offer, then you really should not be an associate in a corporate law firm. If you summered at the firm in question, ask a "trusted" associate with whom you worked for advice. Asking a 1L from a TTT who blogs as something other than he is will not help you in making this important decision. But if you want my two cents - choose a firm whose book is not comprised of just a few big name clients, but is diversified (good M&A, good restructuring, etc). Rule of thumb, at least in NYC, a client should not represent more than 2% of business. These questions are appropriate and show good due diligence on behalf of the prospective employee (I think).

I remember when I was a 2L I knew I what offer I was going to take. However, I knew someone at my school that got this amazing gift basket from a firm that had also given me an offer. They apparently were sending them out to offerees. I really wanted it. (It was full of quality baked goods.) So I waited as long as I could. But apparently they weren't sending them out any more late in the cycle so eventually I just told them no thanks and went to the firm I wanted to go to.

My friends were telling me that I was holding the offer that someone else could have had. But fuck those guys. I wanted my gift basket.

Some days I still wish I got that gift basket.

Orrick has done the same thing this month - partner called up 7 days after offer and turned it into a cold offer, urging to look elsewhere

Orrick has done the same thing this month - partner called up 7 days after offer and turned it into a cold offer, urging to look elsewhere

258, such honest dickheadery is truly appreciated.

Which office for Orrick?

Ropes DC: manageable hours?

218 - Don't kid yourself. I know for a fact that Munger has the exact same policy, although they might be less open about it. They will ask you on the first day of your summer job to give them permission to ask the school for your 2L transcript and this is very important in the hiring decision. There is a reason why it is so difficult to get an offer from Munger...

Any updates on Foley?

Can we have some clarification on the offers rescinded by Drinker Biddle? Which office? Did they rescind after acceptance? Before?

Guys in my high school used to mull offers too long all the time, it was no big deal.

lol pennstaterecessionpwned

Pillsbury has just called students with offers - their class is full......

Got an interesting letter from Howrey saying that Bootcamp is filled up. Odd because I declined an offer with them nearly 3 weeks ago.