Good. Better to let them go somewhere else than to oversubscribe and not be able to offer a large portion of summer associates a job at the end of the summer.

thirdsty ps bu law = TTT

Didn't the Big 10 rescind Michigan's football team based upon poor gridiron economics (i.e., can't field a squad)?

great follow-up, thanks. would like to see updates on other firms that have rescinded

That last tipster sounds like a pretentious asshat.

Akin Gump Dallas, in their offer letter, set summer compensation at $3,333/ week.

4 - it's totally true.

WILDMAN HARROLD would never rescind an offer.

Aww. Risk-averse proto-lawyers can't decide where to enjoy a overpaid summer complete with thousands more in perks and goodies. Awwww.

MysTTTal

Akin Gump Dallas, in their offer letter, set summer compensation at $3,333/ week.

So we have one firm confirmed so far. Maybe ATL should stop with the 'sky is falling' rhetoric about the need to accept promptly until we have proof it has happened elsewhere?

WILDMAN HARROLD TO 190K!!

4 - it's totally true.

7 - DOUBTFUL - They probably said that the 6,666 would be paid twice a month. Keep in mind that a month doesn't equal four weeks exactly. This was the same wording my firm used when they gave us our summer offers.

7/12 are lying

9 - because wildman harrold cannot make any offers.

avoid skadden DC. it's bad news...only getting worse

"But based on the comments, there are still some of you out there sitting on multiple offers."

BWAHAHAHA! Right . . .

Dick Rod's offer to coach Mich football has been rescinded. Oh wait, I hope you keep him around a while. Go Bucks.

16 - I saw the letter, that's what it said. Whether the letter was worded poorly is another story.

I'm sitting on multiple offers. Sorry, I gots to do what I gots to do for #1.

In what world do law school students give a damn about their fellow classmates?

Joe Pa has rescinded all your offers

Visit http://firmnumbers.wordpress.com for law firm hiring statistics.

In what world do law school students give a damn about their fellow classmates?

Any rumors about other Texas-based firms? Botts, Fulbright, Vinson?

In what world do law school students give a damn about their fellow classmates?

7/12

Did a callback at Akin in Texas: They said they are giving a one week bonus due to the first 1/2 only program and the difficulty in getting second half splits. Don't read anything into it. They won't be raising any time soon.

In what world do law school students give a damn about their fellow classmates?

In what world do law school students give a damn about their fellow classmates?

wtf is with this skadden dc stuff? Why isn't skadden denying this? Anyone there who actually knows??!

$6666 twice a month = $159,984. the summers are getting shafted out of a proportional chunk of $16. Where's the fucking outrage?

Don't break my Gump, my Akin Akin Gump ...

TTTulane

In what world do law school students give a damn about their fellow classmates?

29 - Did you do Akin in Dallas? Akin Dallas has switched to a full summer program. I believe that the slight raise is because the program is 11 weeks as opposed to 12. Still sucks for those of us that need to work the full 12 weeks lol.

You are right that some firms are offering a 3k bonus to accept the first half split. Though, I have only heard of two other firms doing this.

36: This was Akin Houston

35 et al. - When did Dr. Remulak start posting on ATL?

i guess i should accept my wachtell offer. I was holding out for WILDMANN HARROLD....

35, et al: self-loathing much?

What skadden DC stuff?

Baker Botts - Dallas overhired last summer and is worried about doing it again. My callback offer got cancelled. If you have an offer you better accept immediately and then work like crazy this summer.

Karma.

What about Baker Botts in New York? Their sales pitch to offerees is that they're growing their New York office. Can that really still be plan?

What about Baker Botts in New York? Their sales pitch to offerees is that they're growing their New York office. Can that really still be the plan?

Doubtful when there are so many other firms who are cutting jobs and scaling back.

what do you think this means for 2Ls who already accepted a spot in a firm that has been rumored to rescind offers? is the firm's rescinding other offers a good thing or a bad thing?

The reason they are rescinding offers is because they have already had too many people accept and nkow they can't give everyone an offer at the end of the summer = more competition and fewer end of summer offers.

47, why should you care? there is nothing you can do about it now. Just suck it up, work your ass off next summer, and do 3L interviewing if you need to do so.

you can't control it, so don't worry about it.

When Obama signs card check into law and associates start organizing, things are gonna be a little different at these firms.

Any offers being rescinded at any of Akin's other offices? I would rather see offers being rescinded than over-hiring and then no-offering only for that reason.

22 - the point of this post (as well as the two prior) is that sitting on multiple offers is not really looking out for #1. Your offers can be rescinded. Make up your mind, you indecisive, douche bag. And no I'm not bitter, I've already accepted my offer, and I didn't need ATL to tell me to. It was actually a bonus for me because one of the offers I turned down went to a really good friend of mine, so I felt good about that too. Bottom line, stop being a jackass.

Any thoughts on CWT's recruiting situation? Should I even consider my Cadwalader offer?

Any offers being rescinded at any of Akin's other offices? I would rather see offers being rescinded than over-hiring and then no-offering only for that reason.

I assume the Akin Dallas office $3333 amount results from paying out the 1st half bonus ($3077) over 12 weeks of the program instead of as a lump sum. (3077/12 = ~256; 256 +3077 = ~3333)

I called to accept at Skadden (DC) and my acceptance was rejected. Oh, shit, this sucks.

53, if that is your only offer, then yes. If not, look elsewhere.

Any thoughts about mid-west firms? Minneapolis in particular.

57: CWT is not my only offer; I just wonder if maybe their new "leaner" look means that they're in a healthier position vis a vis the 2009 summer
-53

Any thoughts about mid-west firms? Minneapolis in particular.

#48--don't think that's true. it sounds like they're rescinding outstanding offers to make sure they CAN give offers to everyone at the end of the summer. i know firms monitor their numbers pretty closely as acceptances come in (i used to do recruiting) and i'm sure they closed the program once they met their goal for the summer. firms work hard to be able to report stats that they gave offers to all they're summer associates for PR purposes.

57 here 53, I dont know a single person who actually enjoyed working at CWT. The way they handled their layoff situation was a symptom of how business is done with respect to associates at the fimr. I don't expect to be coddled, but CWT is not where you want to be unless you have to for financial reasons, or you are a partner.

Hey Elie: I'm sitting on multiple offers. So eat it.

32 - There's nothing for Skadden DC to deny. 18 is a troll that has been posting on every comments section.

its prob because akin gump in nyc was ranked so high in that summer associate survey that they got so many accepts.

Akin LA is also rescinding offers.

Surprised David "The Body" Botter would do something like this. What is the world coming to?

Also, was wondering if anybody has any information on Vinson & Elkins

Hey Elie: I'm sitting on multiple offers. So eat it.

On the V&E note I was wondering the same. Baker Botts, etc. having such horrible offer rates this past summer as well as the fact that they have shrunk their summer class this year might cause V&E to have much more acceptees than they initially thought. Am I completely off on this?

68 -- good question. v&e DC and Houston inparticular.

60: Dorsey lawyers have chips on their shoulders about being in a "national firm" in Minneapolis. Their SAs last summers were also massive tools. Now, Lindquist on the other hand ... !!!

It sounds to me like Akin got more acceptances than they expected because their summer program was just ranked #1 according to Am Law's 2008 Summer Associate Survey. I accepted my Akin offer right away after the ranking came out because I knew that it would trigger swarms of acceptances. Of course, I'm biased because I'm going there this summer, but I don't think anybody can blame Akin for getting caught off-guard here. It ain't easy being #1 baby!

It sounds to me like Akin got more acceptances than they expected because their summer program was just ranked #1 according to Am Law's 2008 Summer Associate Survey. I accepted my Akin offer right away after the ranking came out because I knew that it would trigger swarms of acceptances. Of course, I'm biased because I'm going there this summer, but I don't think anybody can blame Akin for getting caught off-guard here. It ain't easy being #1 baby!

Ellie stop sitting on and crushing everyone's offers you god damn dirty hippo.

Steve Irwinberg

Ropes NYC is in a panic right now. Do not accept an offer there or be prepared to work your ass off next summer.

echo 71-
V&E (all offices)

Hey Ellie, how's it going? You know me, I'm Mark Wahlberg. I see you are a hippo. I think that's great. Maybe we can make a movie together. Well OK then. say hi to your mom for me.

AoCrvth

52 - go fuck yourself. I am following the NALP rules. We are lawyers, we follow rules. As long as I am within the rules, I am fine. Don't tell me what to do, you pretentious piece of shit.

Proskauer NY rescinding.

76 - i find that hard to believe, given that ropes is seriously trying to expand their ny office. can you explain a little more. and where does your information come from?

Does anyone know how the final numbers came out for offers/rejections for Baker Botts Dallas? I got no-offered and they refuse to give me any statistics. Probably don't want it out during OCI.

76 - what is your source? I know they've been trying to grow aggresively so I'd imagine that stategy might come back to bite them next summer.

I'm sitting on 5 offers right now. Why? Because I'm still waiting to hear back from my top choice firm. Why am I holding onto 5? Because that way if a few of those firms rescind offers b/c they're oversubscribed, I will still offers to fall back on.
Would I prefer to just turn down the firms I'm not really interested in? Absolutely--I don't want to take up spots that could go to someone else. But if firms are going to go against the NALP guidelines by pulling offers, then I'm damn well going to cover my ass. And I'm still within the guidelines.

I'm sitting on multiple offers. I don't plan to accept any of them, though; I'm just keeping them warm until they hatch.

79 -- you are not a lawyer. You are, however, a douche bag.

STOP TRYING TO THREATEN US. Would you expect people to accept an offer from Harvard Law over Columbia so the Columbia waitlisted people can get into CLS? No. It's the same principle. People earned an offer from Columbia Law School, and they can sit on it until the deadline.

Sitting on offers is your right. You earned them; others didn't. End of story. You worked hard on the LSAT, in class, and on tests, and you proved to multiple firms that you're capable of doing good work.

79 - I didn't say that you were not following the rules. I just hope that your offers get rescinded because the firms are within their right under those same rules to do that as well. And regardless of the rules you have to consider what makes the most sense strategically. Just because the rules allow you to do something does not mean that it is the best strategy for getting what you want. There are a lot of things that you can do during a trial that would be stupid, even though they are within the rules. We are problem solvers, thinkers, and planners we do not just follow the rules and assume everything will be fine. Also, you are a bad person.

Regards,
-52

confirmation of Proskauer NY rescinding?

You can sit on them 'til they're gone, 87.

Sit on your offers all you want. You are the ones getting burned when they are rescinded.

87 -- you didnt earn shit; you are a lowly law student who hasnt actually done anything yet. Deciding which firm you want to sit in 16 hours a day reviewing documents should not be all that hard. You are not going to make partner and you are not going to get laid. Get over yourself.

87-
You are a true shitnugget. Everyone knows that you're within your right to sit on an offer. The whole point of this thread is to discuss the phenomenon of offers being RESCINDED because jackasses like you sit on them for too long. Continue to do so at your peril. Asshat.

I'm still sitting on BB and V&E Dallas offers and neither has been rescinded. Also, I am looking at the Akin Dallas offer letter and can confirm that the salary is NOT $3,333. There is an eleven week requirement, no first half bonus, and a weekly salary of $3,077.

The economy is fine. What are people talking about? So a few investment banks dissolved and there was a huge mortgage crisis . . . it's not like anyone is out of commission. Chill out, people. Pretty soon recruiting will be at 1999 levels and everyone will enjoy sitting on their offers.

Proskauer is not officially rescinding at the moment, they are admittedly oversubscribed, however, and encouraging those with outstanding offers to look elsewhere.

LOL @ 87. You think that by doing well on the LSAT and a few tests you've "proved to a firm you can do good work"? christ that is the stupidest thing ive heard on here in quite a while.

any proof 56?

87-
Frankly, I'm shocked that you received ANY offers. You're obviously a gigantic buttmunch.

is it wrong to try and force a decision from firms I am still waiting to hear from? I am getting nervous about my offer. I don't want to wait it out and end up with nothing!

I got a 173 on my LSAT and a 3.45 at a T10, I'm pretty sure that I've proven myself. You guys dont know what you're talking about.

- 87

96 - that probably means they will no-offer people next summer instead.

I got a 173 on my LSAT and a 3.45 at a T10, I'm pretty sure that I've proven myself. You guys dont know what you're talking about.

- 87

87 - stop being such a self-entitled baby. Just because you can't make a decision doesn't mean that its a good idea to sit on your offers. It just means that you are a moron. If you can't make this decision you aren't going to be a good lawyer. Just bow out and go flip burgers.

66- source?

I am entitled to every offer I received. I'm taking my time deciding to make sure that the firm I go to is the one I want to make partner at. If I can do well on the LSAT and on tests, why would I not make partner?

- 87

I didn't get an offer. Think Ellie will let me borrow his sign?

"We can't totally slam Akin Gump. They are simply doing what we believe many firms are doing this year. "

Excuse me? Isn't it ATL's job to slam firms that break the rules? When firms didn't match the 160 salary in the past, Lat was all over them with a list of shame. Now some TTT firms want to just ignore the NALP guidelines and we're supposed to be ok with it? This is complete bullshit. Elie, it's your job to slam these mother fuckers.

These people who post that they are entitled to eternal success based on their LSAT on GPA - are they real? Or are they just trolls? I don't know any person who was successful in law school who didn't continue to prove him/herself.

87,103 - I got a 173 and a 3.72 at a T10. I still managed to make a decision and accept an offer. Stop your bitching. Neither of us have proven anything to anyone yet. The LSAT and law school performance don't prove that you will be a good lawyer they are just the only gauges we have to go by. I'm not one to bitch about the system because its done fine by me, but it doesn't make us any better than anyone else.

Got an email Tuesday from an Akin Gump NY 1st year associate saying he had heard I also had an offer from another firm, where he had split his summer, but ultimately opted for Akin Gump. Said I should contact him because he could give me some perspective on both firms. On Wednesday, before I had a chance to respond, got the call from Botter saying my offer was rescinded. They could've at least had the courtesy to conclude the email the day before with "ACCEPT NOW OR ELSE. Love, Akin"

110 -- we are better than most people and we are entitled to good jobs. We worked hard and got good grades.

- 87

110, now thats the kind of attitude people need to bring to the table when stepping into the door at my firm. Welcome aboard.

V10 Associate

Got an email Tuesday from an Akin Gump NY 1st year associate saying he had heard I also had an offer from another firm, where he had split his summer, but ultimately opted for Akin Gump. Said I should contact him because he could give me some perspective on both firms. On Wednesday, before I had a chance to respond, got the call from Botter saying my offer was rescinded. They could've at least had the courtesy to conclude the email the day before with "ACCEPT NOW OR ELSE. Love, Akin"

22, 63, 79 and 87, you are failing to grasp the situation.

You *currently* have multiple offers. However, firms are rescinding their offers. Think it won't be you? Maybe you're right, maybe not. My V10 is full, but we are not rescinding any outstanding offers. The point is, waiting = risk. Look at the stock market; that is what risk looks like when shit happens.

I don't care if you sit on your offers, but if they are rescinded (and I hope they are not), you will have no one to blame but yourselves. And don't think your HYS pedigree makes you an exception. The programs are full because of record acceptance levels everywhere.

Stated otherwise, every one of the firms that gave you an offer is hoping you reject it, notwithstanding your brilliant credentials, because their program is already full.

And to all those chastizing people for not helping fellow students by accepting early, that does not make sense. A full program that gets a rejection is not going to extend the offer to another student.

Good luck

Gump is Achin'!

Akin Gump to TTT!

87, sit on this offer and spin. Thanks.

Hey Ellie, how's it going? You know me, I'm Mark Wahlberg. I see you are a hippogump. I think that's great. Maybe we can make a movie together. Well OK then. Say hi to your mom for me.

TTTullane

I ate my own afterbirth.

I ate my own afterbirth.

I ate my own afterbirth.

115, I think you've outlined the shortsightedness of a lot of (though not all) firms. There were firms that saw the writing on the wall in August and adjusted accordingly. Why should 2Ls be hung out to dry because management made stupid decisions? Then again, that's just like being an associate...

can the guy who said ropes & gray NYC is in a panic please elaborate???

In these comments, there seems to be an absence of a certain ornithological piece. A headline regarding mass awareness of a certain avian variety

Is it possible to "force" firms to make a decisions on offers? I am waiting to hear from four firms and would like to know those outcomes before i accept my offer(which i am a little worried about). I don't want to end up with nothing, however!

125-
I dare you to try to "force" firms to make a decision regarding your hatted ass. I seriously dare you. Let me know what result.

125 - You can't "FORCE" a firm to make a decision, but you can make a phone call to the partner or recruiting manager and explain your situation and politely ask for an update on your standing.

Bird is the word?

87 just pwnd us all. Nice troll.

I really like the comeback in 103. I mean if getting a 3.45 isn't proving one's self, I don't know what is.

If all of your firms end up rescinding your offers, I think you could definitely represent your hood on "Yo Momma."

On the off chance 87 is NOT a troll, in response to your query, "If I can do well on the LSAT and on tests, why would I not make partner?" --- because you are an arrogant ass.

On the off chance 87 is NOT a troll, in response to your query, "If I can do well on the LSAT and on tests, why would I not make partner?" --- because you are an arrogant ass.

so...what about those of us who interviewed with Akin Gump on Tuesday? There's no hope for an offer from them, is there?

They could have saved me several hours by just telling me not to come in for an interview...

123:

That commenter was someone who accepted his Ropes NYC offer already and is simply trying to dissuade others from doing so, in order to avoid oversubscription and possible no-offers this summer. People who read ATL are generally awful like that.

Also I had my 5 offers from V5 law firms rescinded in the last 24 hours.

173 LSAT, 4.0 at T (thats top not tier) 1

I don't know what firm to pick so I'm just sitting on my offers until all but one firm rescinds. HA! Choice made!

I got a 180 on my LSAT, a "high pass" at T-5, AND I have a 13.5 inch dong.

Where are my offers?

WILDMAN HARROLD

Yeah, my classmate just received a call from Proskauer, which gave him an offer about 2 weeks ago, basically telling him that he better not accept the offer as their program is full already and it is highly likely that not all qualified SAs are going to received an offer after the summer and the quality of work the SAs are going to get won't be as good as promised.

I like how the NY office of Akin Gump still has an ad at lawcrossings for summer associates.

What a sinking ship...

Yeah, my classmate just received a call from Proskauer, which gave him an offer about 2 weeks ago, basically telling him that he better not accept the offer as their program is full already and it is highly likely that not all qualified SAs are going to received an offer after the summer and the quality of work the SAs are going to get won't be as good as promised.

Yeah, my classmate just received a call from Proskauer, which gave him an offer about 2 weeks ago, basically telling him that he better not accept the offer as their program is full already and it is highly likely that not all qualified SAs are going to received an offer after the summer and the quality of work the SAs are going to get won't be as good as promised.

Yeah, my classmate just received a call from Proskauer, which gave him an offer about 2 weeks ago, basically telling him that he better not accept the offer as their program is full already and it is highly likely that not all qualified SAs are going to received an offer after the summer and the quality of work the SAs are going to get won't be as good as promised.

Yeah, my classmate just received a call from Proskauer, which gave him an offer about 2 weeks ago, basically telling him that he better not accept the offer as their program is full already and it is highly likely that not all qualified SAs are going to received an offer after the summer and the quality of work the SAs are going to get won't be as good as promised.

87 - You won't make partner because you're already a douche with no social skills. You aren't entitled to that until you actually make partner

Yeah, my classmate just received a call from Proskauer, which gave him an offer about 2 weeks ago, basically telling him that he better not accept the offer as their program is full already and it is highly likely that not all qualified SAs are going to received an offer after the summer and the quality of work the SAs are going to get won't be as good as promised.

Q: Does this mean the slip n' fall market will dry up?

A: No, that is why I am a plaintiff's attorney.

Yeah, my classmate just received a call from Proskauer, which gave him an offer about 2 weeks ago, basically telling him that he better not accept the offer as their program is full already and it is highly likely that not all qualified SAs are going to received an offer after the summer and the quality of work the SAs are going to get won't be as good as promised.

Yeah, my classmate just.....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Yeah, my classmate just FIGURE OUT HOW TO POST

87 is real and is a true douche bag. I was just joking.

-- 101/103/106/112

did the classmate with the withdrawn Proskauer offer announce it during class it in front of a hundred person lecture hall, then ask everyone to post about it on ATL using the exact same language?

I got a call yesterday telling me I should make a decision by the end of the week because the summer class is almost full. I appreciated the heads up.

Do firms have the legal right to rescind offers prior to their respective deadlines? What if I detrimentally relied on the offer by denying other callbacks or offers?

FWIW, Proskauer was taking a shit long time to get back to me, and I finally called them and asked what the deal was, and they just said, "we don't have a decision for you at this time, if you have any other offers, you should seriously consider accepting one." I took them up on their advice.

start a list of firms that are confirmed to have rescinded offers

akin ny is hardly a sinking ship. it's a rapidly growing office - they move into new digs in the nicest building in nyc next week - with one of the best client bases in the city for an office of its size. while not having banks as clients was considered a problem 5 years ago, concentrating on private equity/funds and creditor representation (as akin does) looks pretty smart now.

and it's worth noting that the rescissions were at NYC law schools. nyu, columbia and fordham have the earliest oci dates in the country, so those students likely received offers over 45 days ago and have been sitting on them.

154 -- you truly are a fucking retarded 2L. I hope you dont bring that shit to my firm.

154 - Haven't you read any of this? Stop reading the blog and start paying attention to contracts class, you're going to need to distinguish yourself next year.

You brats don't deserve anything. If you think you should have life handed to you because you were a grade-grubbing jackass back in high school and got into the "right" undergrad (where you could take a cheese major, no doubt) and a four hour test, you're in for a rude shock.

Hopefully summer offer precentage is down to 75% this year. That'll put the fear of God into these scum.

I'm glad to see this thread has turned into a bunch of loser law students discussing how well they did on the LSAT. I think you guys should also definitely do that when you start working at firms... preferably within the first week or two of starting work and especially in casual conversation. That would prove to partners and senior associates that you are capable of "doing good work". Ass clowns.

When it came time to choose between S & C and Skadden, I chose Skadden. Why? Because it's a better firm.

THESE PRETZELS -- LOOK! -- THEY'RE MAKING ME ONE FIFTY FIFTHSTY

149 150 152
Just something wrong with the posting! JUST SKIP IT! what's the big deal!?

im a 3L happily going back to the firm i summered at, and thanking the Lord i am 09 and not 2010/11.

but i have to say- particularly to 87- that yes, you all are very worthy of your many offers. but if youre waiting on Cravath, and already have Simpson and Sullivan, you can very well make a decision between THOSE TWO- freeing up one of those spots, and not in any way forcing you to go a subpar firm.

theres nothing wrong with protecting your right to go wherever you want- but why hold onto four offers when youre eventually going to have to choose ONE of them anyway? Delaying that choice in this market is a douche move.

79 - You are not a lawyer. You have only completed 2 semesters of law school... that doesn't make you a lawyer. Now accept your stupid offer and shut up.

Is 160 an ibanker?

163- Actually, there's something wrong with your reading comprehension ability, because you couldn't understand the following directive:
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FIRST!

FIRST!

Anybody know about Pillsbury? I had a callback there and they were wishy washy...

lousy "few minute" delay
-168

Anybody know about Pillsbury? I had a callback there and they were wishy washy...

lousy "few minute" delay
-168

will Biglaws give much fewer offers to SAs?

Hooray! This shitstorm has revived the ATL comments threads, although I demand more from Lothario.

Also, any law student with multiple offers who continues to believe that, at this point, he or she will be able to discern which firm would actually be a better place to work has the wrong idea about the world of biglaw. You will have a shitty time as a junior associate at any firm and are screwed no matter what.* Just accept an offer already, so that more of your classmates can join you in jumping off the cliff.

* but, it also doesn't matter, so take heart. You will never build a career at your summer firm anyway - you will be gone within a few years, as many associates have pointed out on other threads. By then you might actually have the tools to figure out what's what.

I hope everyone realizes that all of the angry commentors calling for people to accept their offers are HLS 2Ls. This week is their fly-back week, so they are all desperately hoping that offers free up. Think it is a coincidence that Elie, an HLS grad, wrote 3 obnoxious posts on this topic while offering evidence of only ONE large firm that has rescinded offers?

I am not saying it is wise to wait until the deadline to accept an offer. Just understand the motive behind the sentiments expressed on this (rapidly deteriorating) blog. Real lawyers do not care enough about this issue to fill up this many comments on 3 separate posts.

What is this idiotic revelation that a firm's left and right hand don't know what they're doing because one lawyer reaches out to someone with a 'relax' email while the recruiting department is making harsher choices. No shit...that's how it works. Its one thing to get feedback from a lawyer, but if you think all lawyers are clued in 100% to the recruiting committee/accounting departments efforts to cut costs, you're wrong. That lawyer was a schmuck to not even think this might be happening, but lesson learned: understand the power and authority of who you're talking to. And lawyers you dealt with while interviewing...once the interview is over, they have none. Here's the real deal: they complete their online evals the moment you leave the office and assign you a numerical score, the same way you've been scored in every other aspect of your life. They're asked yes or no, and their votes are tallied Beyond that, no authority, so don't take anything you hear from them as more than one man's opinion.

Agree with 175. There is nothing to figure out. Just take the highest V-rank offer that would look the best on your resume and then take stock in 2 or 3 years.

ATL posts to 190!

I second the earlier comments on V&E. Anybody know what their recruiting is looking like?

Here's the story on Akin Gump NY.

They gave out 96 offers for 20 spots. They've already had 22 acceptances, with 32 offers outstanding. They didn't want a summer with a 75% offer rate.

Rescinding the offers is not unprofessional. It is the professional, responsible hing to do. Much better to taking on a big summer class knowing that it won't give offers to everyone.

182
ture. but shouldn't the firms be more conservative in giving out offers at the first place, instead of rescinding them afterwards? Considering the crappy economy, high offer acceptance rate is not unforeseeable.

119, 120, 121-

I wish I could eat your cancer when you turn black.

176 - interesting analysis.

I'm sure these posts are actually making students sit on more offers. For example, look at 84 who is sitting on 5 offers. A more reasonable strategy and perhaps one that is more courteous to others would be to wait out for the one you really want, and hold your one or two that you would take if it didn't come through. I don't see why holding 5 offers is necessary, except in response to paranoia that all 5 offers are going to be rescinded.

And 84. The reason the one firm you really want and are waiting on to get back to you might be putting it off because someone like you is holding on to them as there 5th choice for some ridciulous and unknown reason.

Sinking ship...

Everybody that thinks that they are entitled to something is an idiot.

Of course the majority of the people on this site are liberal lawyers (close to the worse kind of liberal) and believes that everybody in this country (and possibly) the world is ENTITLED to everything. Remember, you voted for all these stupid entitlement programs so stop whining when other people start thinking that they are entitled to stuff that they aren't entitled to.

I had 5 offers. I turned down three almost immediately because I had no reason to choose those three over the 2 that were more preferable to me. I then held on to those two for 3 more weeks while waiting to finish all my interviews.

There was really no reason for me to hold onto the other 3 offers if I knew I absolutely wasn't going to take them--unless I was a self-obsessed asshole who wanted to brag about how awesome I am that I'm holding onto offers from all the top firms and therefore all women should worship at my feet...or something like that.

Dead on, 188. Dead on.

183: Akin probably has had a historic acceptance rate of about 20%. Those rates tend to be generally consistent from year to year.

Hindsight is 20-20, but there really wasn't any information available in August-early September that suggested that this year would be that much different for most firms, so there would be no reason to have been overly conservative with offers then.

The NALP change this year also didn't help the situation, because firms couldn't tell if early acceptances would necessarily mean more acceptances.

189- well unless you bought into Elie's BS that every firm is going to start rescinding offers because of evidence that one did.

But yes, you're absolutely right, and I'm sure that other students and the even the firms you not dicking around with your 5 offers senselessly.

If--despite the NALP guidelines that firms should hold offers for 45 days--it is acceptable for firms to withdraw offers, is it also acceptable for students to accept offers then withdraw their acceptance if they get a better offer?
The reason the NALP guidelines exist, for both students and firms, is that so each side can get an idea of what their needs will be. For firms to go against those guidelines just creates an incentive for students to do the same.

188,

I'll bite, what is in fact, the "worst" kind of liberal?

183: Akin probably has had a historic acceptance rate of about 20%. Those rates tend to be generally consistent from year to year.

Hindsight is 20-20, but there really wasn't any information available in August-early September that suggested that this year would be that much different for most firms, so there would be no reason to have been overly conservative with offers then.

The NALP change this year also didn't help the situation, because firms couldn't tell if early acceptances would necessarily mean more acceptances.

NYU just joined the bandwagon of schools telling their students to "accept their damn offers already."

I simply can't understand this. The model hasn't changed at all; the size of the classes has. If you're a top student at a top school, you will still be fine. Firms can't justify their billing rates by hiring middling students at T25 schools, and, therefore, they're most in peril of losing offers. But losing offers as a Law Review type at any T10? Get real.

The point is that *some* people have to be more careful, but not others. CSM will continue to lust after HLS LR, but maybe they'll defer the top 20%, no LR guy at, say, a T15.

Boalt sent out an email telling their students to accept already, as well.

192/195: Other firms certainly saw the writing on the wall... why give Akin a free pass?

It's still surprising when a T25 Law Reviewer doesn't get any offers.

First.

188, there is no logical connection between the sense of entitlement to a high-paying job displayed by certain obnoxious, privileged law students and the belief (held by some people with "liberal" views) that government entitlement programs might be worthwhile. The beneficiaries of the biglaw hiring system and the beneficiaries of government entitlement systems have nothing in common, almost by definition.

Moreover, if you read any of the comments in this entitlement vein (87 stands out, whether or not a troll), it is obvious that law students derive their sense of entitlement to a high-paying job from the (incorrect) belief that because they have managed to score highly enough on a standardized test and then not fail out of a highly-ranked school, they are "better" and harder-working than other people. That belief system actually clashes with the idea that every person deserves a leg up at some point, even those who have failed in some way, which is the underlying philosophy of government entitlement programs.

So, not to get substantive on this otherwise enjoyable thread, but your comment made no sense.

If ANY of you have offers from Dechert and another firm, you should take the other offer. Dechert will only keep you on long enough so that they can proclaim they have a certain number of summer clerks and/or first years, before firing you for no reason. (Yes they fire people for no reason. People who have work and lots of hours and good reviews.)

If your only offer is from Dechert, consider a smaller firm with a better reputation. The better reputation should be the easy part. Stay away from Dechert. This ship is going down........ The band is just striking up a tune now and the deck chairs are being rearranged.

193 -- only if you want to fuck yourself and your career. Word will get around -- the legal community (and in particular the legal HR community) is much smaller than you think.

I'm still waiting to get an offer from Weil Gotschal. If any of you are sitting on an offer from Weil, please turn it down so I can get my offer.

202 -- you are a complete fucking retard.

Thoughts on Paul Weiss?

I second 205. Please turn down your Weil Gotshal offer.

FYI: Weil, as of last week, was still giving out offers. I had my callback at the very end of September, and got an offer during the middle of last week. Good luck!

I would really appreciate it if someone (who KNOWS something) could weigh on on the relative importance of 2L grades (in relation to performance over the summer). I'm exerpiencing horrendous law school burnout right now.

Waiting for an offer from Weil is like hanging out by the garbage barrels on trash day.

185 nirvana reference approved

Makes sense, 196. Students at a TTT like NY Law School should be glad they have any offers at all.

what's the deal with ropes nyc?

68 -- good question. v&e DC and Houston inparticular.

Wait, did 87 say go to Columbia over Harvard? Clearly a Columbia troll. That's like going to Skadden over Cravath. I'm sure a few people HAVE done it, but most who say so are probably lying.

68 -- good question. v&e DC and Houston inparticular.

McGuirewoods Chicago rescinded. Well, they just said they were oversubscribed and may not give you a permanent offer at the end of the summer. I'm sure many firms are doing this. They aren't formally rescinding, but they are basically telling you not to accept the offer.

What I meant was: no one would sit on that decision.

-216

What I meant was: no one would sit on that decision.

-216

I chose Wachtell over CSM. Wise?

Congrats everyone, you've managed to come to the dumbest conclusion in the world. Accept your offer, because tomorrow it may be gone. Except why on earth would you work at a firm that's so in trouble that in 24 hours it can no longer handle you? Most surefire path to 3L interviews = accepting an offer you're afraid might be rescinded.

Sit on your offers and see what happens. Otherwise, you end up accepting an offer with a firm whose tombstone goes up on AtL a week after you do.

Yeah, if anyone out there has offers to Kelley Drye and wants to decline them, that'd be appreciated.

Kelley Drye never even sent me a rejection letter when they didn't offer me a call back. Fuck 'em.

anyone have info about akin DC???

Is any firm telling you that they are not oversubscribed because they gave out less offers than usual lying? If a firm has said that it will likely be oversubscribed (and thus more competitive), is this a good reason to decline my offer there, even though I liked them in every other regard?

JoPa is extending offers to all UPEnn 2Ls.v

226 - if i were you, and i liked this firm more than any other firm from which i had an offer, then i would call recruiting, talk to them, tell them my situation (that i have offers from other firms, but like your firm the best), and tell them that you're inclined to accept. see what they say... it can't hurt. if they are very negative, accept elsewhere.

Re: Baker Botts NY--

Had a callback there, got an offer, but declined. Very small office. They say they're growing, but they only take 1 associate per year. They don't have any sort of summer program, obviously. Also, all of the younger associates I met were pretty socially retarded.

Baker BoTTTs to TTTT--Third Tier TexASS Toiletttt!

I can't see why anybody would chose Baker Botts over V&E anyways.

Offered at Kirkland but rejected at WILDMAN HARROLD. Redo 1L and try again?? I hear WH to 190K + 50K bonus for 1850 billable.

231- Ok, wiseguy, give me the sales pitch for V&E.

229: Can your info be right? NALP lists Botts as having made offers to 4 of 4 last summer...

The lunacy of all these comments suggesting everyone should accept their offers (!) is the assumption that, in accepting, they've become more secure in this market. Everyone is at will. Period. If things get worse, what difference is it to the firm if they rescind an offer not yet accepted or cancel an accepted offer? Either way, the summer season hasn't started, things are going downhill, and they're taking care of an excess spot by cancelling things. There's no COMPARATIVE downside to waiting a few weeks to see what else emerges, and there's a huge UPSIDE in that you'll be able to make more strategic decisions. If anything, what people SHOULD be advocating is for students to carefully consider their offers so as to take into account (particularly for certain firms) the increased potential of having their spot in the summer program cancelled in the next few months. This is far more important than running around scared asking whether offers are going to be pulled.

210 -

If you have resume pre-screen at your OCI, your grades matter.

If you are summering at a highly grade conscious shop - W&C, GDC, L&W, etc, your grades matter.

If you are planning on getting anything below a B because you are "burned out," your grades matter.

154 -

Jesus Christ. I'm going to start dinging anyone who didn't get at least an A- in Contracts on general principle.

Maybe only 1 actually wanted to go to Baker Botttttts? Others probably traded up...in NYC there are a lot of better places to go.

236-
just happened to check this thread (guess I should be studying).
Don't know how grade-conscious my "shop" will be - it's a V60 firm in NYC.
I'm certainly not PLANNING on getting anything below a B. But it is within the realm of theoretical possibility.

I know from previous classes that Baker Botts in Dallas takes a lot of people other firms reject/no-offer. Their rep seems to be in the toilet down here, at least among potential summers, and only those who didn't get offers elsewhere are going (and risking their necks with BB's offer rate last summer!).

Also, for what it's worth, a friend who works there now says there isn't much in the way of hot girls. He said some of the girls are actually really busted. If the Dallas girls are so ugly, I'd hate to see their NYC counterparts (for those of you looking there...) *shivers*

222 is totally on point. if you're choosing between V50 firms, yeah maybe hurry up. if you really feel for the anxious HLS 2Ls who can't catch a break, go ahead and make a decision. otherwise, take your time. any firm with a reputation worth maintaining will honor their offers. geez.

In this market, every firm is likely oversubscribed in the sense that they have more people than they would if they set their targets now instead of August. Except for S&C, no one is doing the kind of business they were doing - think of the number of staple clients that have disappeared. The winners are going to be the larger firms, because they can absorb the extra 10 Harvard students. Smaller firms or offices simply don't have that kind of margin of error. If a firm usually has 100+ summers, they can probably take an extra 10. If a program usually has 20, they can maybe take up to 25. What will be interesting is how people are doing come August. I'm sure some firms are going the Akin route and protecting those that made a decision. Other firms are probably taking more than they want with the idea that they hope things improve. But if the market stays like this and you've got extra summers, good luck placing them somewhere. The worse situation is not what was done here, but those firms that no offer or cold offer 10% of the class, leaving them to fend in a tough 3L market. Or those that give offers but for practices no one wants to join. Best bet in this economy is probably to look for firms that are not dependent on any single client (at this point, any company could disappear by August), is not over-subscribed, and has stronger practices in litigation and bankruptcy. So you're really talking about Weil, Kirkland, Davis, Paul Weiss, Skadden, Quinn, Milbank, even Akin. (Probably in that order). Obviously, you can't go wrong at Wachtell, S&C, Cravath or Simpson. The firms that are more likely to have trouble making 100% offers if they oversubscribe are the firms that are very transactionally driven like Willkie, Latham, Debevoise, Shearman, O'Melveny, Clifford Chance, or Ropes, none of which is well known for litigation or restructuring/bankruptcy.

akin dc is making very few offers this year. if you have one, it won't get rescinded. if you didn't get one, you're not alone. some harvard people are still doing callbacks, but they brought back significantly fewer than in previous years, so there is little or no risk of the office being oversubscribed for the summer.

also, 242 is a great post. someone who *gasp* actually knows what they're talking about.

Good luck winning a detrimental reliance claim on an offer absent consideration. That said, Elie might actually have something interesting to post if you're the sorry ass law student who tries to sue a law firm for rescinding an offer that you have not accepted.

-- Alberto Gonzales

ropes nyc apparently already has more summers than last year with the class only going to get bigger, not good in this economy

242,

Really?? You think places like Latham, Debevoise, Willkie could be hurting and no offering their summers - and are in the same category as OMM, Shearman, CC, and Ropes??

242 is likely a TTT student, given that he took 300 words to say "larger firms handle oversubscription better" and "getting no offered sucks". not to mention his bizarre ranking which rates milbank and akin as safer bets than latham and debevoise (the latter of which, needless to say, has a quite elite litigation practice which is cleaning up these days).

228 - I called and spoke to recruiting people, and they sounded worried and not very positive. Sounds like a bad sign to me, and I'm thinking of going elsewhere.

Echo 247 -

242 - Willkie actually has a very good bankruptcy practice that is consistently ranked near the top. Furthermore, no evidence of oversubscription has come out from them (was offered a position with them 2.5 weeks ago, accepted Monday - no questions asked)

Echo 247 -

242 - Willkie actually has a very good bankruptcy practice that is consistently ranked near the top. Furthermore, no evidence of oversubscription has come out from them (was offered a position with them 2.5 weeks ago, accepted Monday - no questions asked)

Akin Los Angeles has also rescinded offers without any prior warning to the potential summers that something was amiss.

who's akin dump?

87 is flaming troll.

Univ. of Texas -- Better late than never:

"Dear Students,
We received reports yesterday directly from a few law firms and from some of our students that some 2L summer clerkship offers have been rescinded before the offer deadline. Current market conditions suggest that less deliberation of opportunities and quicker response time to offers is prudent. With unusually high acceptance rates and concern of over-subscribing summer clerkship classes, some firms have decided to rescind outstanding offers once their target class size has been met. While we are directly aware of only a few such instances, we recommend that you make your acceptance offers and communicate those results to employers as soon as possible. "

53 - I was a summer associate at CWT during the most recent round of layoffs. Though that was a sad day at Cadwalader, my experience overall was positive. I really liked the partners I worked for, and the associates weren't a bunch of top-5% weirdos. I plan to accept my offer of full-time employment shortly. To be sure, firm insiders I've spoken to are prepared to see a tremendous decline in reported PPP this year, as well as potential further declines in the prestige rankings. However, most remain confident in the firm's long-term success. If I were you, I wouldn't rule out the firm as a good destination for the summer.

254-
Any idea if the rescinded offers referred to are from firms hitherto unmentioned in this thread (e.g., Texas firms like Fulbright, V&E, Baker Botts?)

Not sure why people are taking potshots at Ropes, a firm that has made offers to every summer it has had in this decade except one person in 2004, that didn't lay anyone off in 2001 or 2002 and has strong regulatory (investment management, healthcare) and litigation practices (IP litigation in particular, following the 2004 acquisition of Fish & Neave). The idea that Ropes would no-offer their summers is laughable and an outright lie from a competitor firm troll.

254, Curious if as a UT student you get a feel for what firm seems to be most popular among the students out of the Big Texas Firms (V&E, BB, F&J, etc.)

258,

V&E seems to be getting all the 2Ls who are socially competent this year.

259,

That is great. Should make for a good summer then. Any concern among the students that the firm might be oversubscribed. Through this board and other friends I've heard a lot of people are staying away from Baker Botts. Can't lie that I am a little bit concerned as to what their offer rate will be. It seems more people than years past want to go to V&E.

It's about time some UT people posted on this site.

260: echo your query about V&E.
-an offeree

i agree with 108- ATL is taking the wrong angle on this. you should not be covering this by screaming at 2Ls to accept their offers. you should be shitting all over these firms for acting so unprofessional.

i have an offer from VE and haven't heard of any of their offices rescinding offers. (i can't swear that they haven't, but i think that the news would spread like wildfire at UT)

Most firms are going to reach capacity early, with many outstanding offers left. They will have to decide now whether they want to cut off anyone else from accepting or just encourage people not to accept but still allow more people to come on board. I called firms to ask what their policy would be if they did oversubscribe - to formally rescind or just discourage. Go for the ones that close their class like Akin.

I shudder to think that some of you might get a job in my firm. I don't say "work" at my firm, because apparently, your sense of entitlement might be offended by the thought of actually pulling your own weight. A high LSAT and GPA in law school means squat. Hard work and a good attitude - I'll take a hungry, hard working associate over one of you "high achievers" any day. Based on the tone of most of these posts, more offers should be pulled - maybe we can replace you with trained monkeys?

Disgusted biglaw partner

I can't believe some of these comments are serious. Why are some law students so certain that they are entitled to the offers they have? No offense - firms put a lot of resources into recruiting you, but at most firms, you start out as the least important person at the firm. At the larger firms, you likely will be doing grunt work for years, not have partner or client contact, and the firm will be more than willing to tell you to start looking elsewhere at your second annual review. It's fine if you want to feel important now because you attend a V5 law school and did well. Unfortunately for you, so did a lot of people at BigLaw and nobody cares that you did too. Sit on your offers if you want; I agree, it is totally your perogative. But do so at your own peril and know that it does not reflect well on your judgment. Once firms started rescinding offers, you should be reacting to the situation and not whining about notions of fairness. If you were asked to advise Merrill Lynch about a sale to Bank of America, the client would not have been well served if you stood your ground on fairness ideas instead of dealing with the facts on the ground, which mandated that the firm be sold for less that it was worth or else file bankruptcy. You can stand on ceremony all day, but you won't make it. And it will be very sad for you because you are so used to getting what you worked for. Too bad business doesn't work that way.

A friend at Baker Botts said they're not doing very well, and will be having a smaller than usual summer class. She said she would avoid, and go with V&E instead.

Baker Botts girls are U.G.L.Y. (and they ain't got no alibi).

I have a friend who is a new first year in the Dallas office of BB. I remember her saying that in her summer, they made offers to summers who were no-offered by other Dallas firms they had split with (V&E, Locke Lord, etc).

Take it for what it's worth...