Boston University School of Law: 1L Property Students Take On The Dean
Getting accurate information about professors is a problem for law students across the nation. Until pedagogical initiatives result in every student getting a certificate of participation, grades will still be very important to law students.
At Boston University School of Law, every semester students submit reviews of their professors, and those reviews are published so that other students can make better decisions. BU Law has the best professors, according to Princeton Review.
But not every class is a winner. Last year, a 1L property professor received scathing reviews from many of the students. We don’t know all the details about what happened in that class, but we’ve heard some negative things about the professor’s teaching style, grading system, and personality.
Apparently, the reviews were so bad that BU Law Dean Maureen O’Rourke took the extraordinary step of addressing the entire class. According to one tipster:
The students who showed up to the meeting were given no apologies. They were told that the administration read the reviews and did not think that they were indicative of Prof. McClain’s teaching. The students were informed that McClain would get tenure regardless, so that they should leave the issue alone.When the dean was pressed on whether the reviews would nevertheless be published, she said that they would not be published, not even the 1-5 bubble fill-ins ranging from poor to excellent on overall teaching evaluation.
What is the point of having a student review system when bad reviews are expunged from the record? (Former ATL Law School Dean Hottie) Dean O’Rourke responds after the jump.
ATL interviewed Dean O’Rourke about this controversy. She said that the professor in question no longer teaches 1Ls. She had hoped that move would ameliorate the students’ immediate issues. But she acknowledged that the larger problem was her handling of the student review process:
We most certainly did read the reviews - every word - and what we noted was that clearly something went wrong in this particular class but we did not think the reviews indicative of what the professor’s teaching had been over the years at other institutions. And that was why I didn’t publish the numbers.
The professor in question was tenured at a different university before coming over to BU Law. But according to Dean O’Rourke, her decision not to publish the student reviews wasn’t taken to save face for the administration:
It may have been an error in judgment on my part and I should have explained my reasoning to the students, but I didn’t fail to publish the reviews because I thought they were mistaken about that particular class but to give a faculty colleague with a long history of teaching a fresh start at her new home.
One BU Law student (who was not in the problem property class) told us:
I think that this behavior is irresponsible and borders on fraudulent. I understand the embarrassment that the administration must feel, but covering it up is not a viable option.
From her own statements, it seems clear that Dean O’Rourke made a mistake and regrets it. Dean O’Rourke suggested that in light of this situation, she would be open to reforming the way BU Law conducts and publishes student reviews.
But those 1L property students had a valid issue with Dean O’Rourke’s actions. They were given a system for feedback, but when things went sour the Dean changed the rules.
Dean O’Rourke has (at least) two constituencies, she has to protect the reputation of the faculty to be sure, but she also has to make the students feel like their concerns are being addressed. It’s not always possible to do both at the same time.
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Dechert??? Skaden DC???
dean, not deal...
second?
BC>>>>BU
What did the professor do that was so bad?
Similar crap goes on with Professor Kendall Thomas at CLS.
The student quoted is wrong - the dean did apologize. It may not have been the most satisfying apology, in light of her further caveats, but she definitely apologized.
The dean should be hanged.
Butt Ugly School of Law.
Suck it.
UVA2L.
It goes on at Penn, too. Just ask all the students who have suffered through the awful trial ad class taught by Shanin "My dad is Arlin" Specter. His antics a couple years ago had the entire class complaining to the dean, and nothing was done. Go figure...
4 - Remember that time when there was a post about the Dean of BU not taking student concerns seriously and you wrote that BC >>>>BU?
That was awesome.
It goes on at Penn, too. Just ask all the students who have suffered through the awful trial ad class taught by Shanin "My dad is Arlin" Specter. His antics a couple years ago had the entire class complaining to the dean, and nothing was done. Go figure...
This is why you need your review system run by somebody outside of the Dean's office.
It goes on at Penn, too. Just ask all the students who have suffered through the awful trial ad class taught by Shanin "My dad is Arlin" Specter. His antics a couple years ago had the entire class complaining to the dean, and nothing was done. Go figure...
the dean is full of sh*t. they just want the students' money. earning it is another story.
I would love to know what the prof did to incur the wrath of 1L's...
That said, Dean O is an effective and caring administrator. I would be inclined to give her a pass, especially in light of the apology.
- '07
P.S. BC still sucks.
BU is so TTTTT
-Nervous T-10 1L
"the dean is full of sh*t. they just want the students' money. earning it is another story."
Are you one of those douche bags who goes around saying "if you are not in the top 1/3rd, career services doesn't care about you"? I bet you are... and it's not the school - it's you.
Does anyone know if this goes on at Penn too?
16 - Do you remember that time when you posted that the Dean of BU should get a pass from people because she apologized and is overall a caring administrator? Do you remember that?
Is that true?
Wow, despite that Penn education, #10 can't figure out how to post on ATL. He/She should go to UPenn State and get a quality education.
19, Yes this DEFINITELY happens at the University of Pennsylvania's state campus at Dickinson. In fact, anything even remotely critical of Joe Pa results in automatic expulsion.
BU is so TTTTT
-Nervous T-10 1L
If the Dean won't publish the evaluations, I'll publish an overview here:
Out of respect, I will leave out the Professor's name. Professor was the most defensive, offensive, nasty, irresponsible and incompetent professor I have ever had. The entire two hour class was spent with her reading the cases to us. When someone asked a question that might veer off her expected path, she had no concept of how to a) steer the class back on topic or b)answer the question appropriately.
One time, she reamed out a student just outside the classroom door, where everyone inside the classroom could hear. An hour before exams, she emailed us to say that the practice exam we had been studying from had the wrong answer key.
Perhaps our expectations were higher because of the incredibly quality of professors we had in other courses, I don't know.
This is not to say she isn't an incredibly intelligent and well-mannered lady. It was obvious that she is educated and articulate and even kind. Her actions weren't the actions of someone who is cruel; they were the actions of someone who simply is not fit to be a teacher.
See generally Professor Bridgewater at WCL.
More dirt! You know it's bad when the Dean lowers herself to talking to the students.
sucks to BU
SkaTTTen
we’re worried about 1L jobs not crappy property professors.
*hopes he has a vested future interest in a 1L sa position*
-nervous T-10 1L
sucks to BU
sucks to BU
sucks to BU
sucks to BU
I transferred from a T20 school to a T10 school because the caliber of a few professors at the T20 was so bad and course evaluations were completely disregarded by the adminstration (one prof. taught ConLaw in the most feminist/URM biased ways imaginable). Unfortunately, the T10 school has professors that are just as bad and possibly worse.
There is no magical place where all the professors are good. The fact of the matter is there are not enough good law school professors to go around.
Law school is a complete joke anyways; the material is generally worthless. On the job training is where its at.
At UC Berkeley Law professors can choose not to have their students' reviews published (and all Berkeley ever publishes is just the 1-10 scale survey questions, not actual comments provided by students).
Thanks for those last three paragraphs of brilliant analysis, Elie. You have a keen sense of the obvious.
24 -
"Professor was the most defensive, offensive, nasty, irresponsible and incompetent professor I have ever had.
....
This is not to say she isn't an incredibly intelligent and well-mannered lady. It was obvious that she is educated and articulate and even kind."
WTF?
I second #25's comment. Check out the bad comments spanning several years on Rate My Professors:
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=725188
I wish our student reviews were published somewhere where students could read them. I've never even heard of that, sounds like a great idea.
Saying this "borders on fraudulent" borders on retarded.
i'm just going to go ahead and make a shout out to Prof. Kendal Thomas at CLS... those of you who recognize his name know why
39, stfu and take your bullshit elsewhere.
After transferring post 1L year from a school ranked in the 100s to a top 10 school, I can tell you it doesn't matter where you go. You're going to get a few amazing teachers who know what they're doing and care about what they're doing. And you're also going to get a few terrible teachers who should never have gotten tenure but did because the administration just doesn't seem to know what it's doing sometimes. Rank has nothing to do with this fact.
This post would do well to also point out that MCLAIN VOTED WITH THE DEAN 90% OF THE TIME WHILE TENURED!!!
I don't get it - the professor's pedigree seems solid:
LL.M., University of Wisconsin Law School 2000
J.D., Florida State University College of Law 1995
B.A., Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University 1992
Related link:
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1129085
Can you delete 39 please?
39's post....what comes in one step above "Epic Fail?"
Law schools are a bigger racket than the oil industry. Overpriced, dishonest post-graduate career reporting, oftentimes horrible teaching with zero accountability. Avoid law school, at all costs! Take your 150K and invest in a plumbing business.
Indonesia = TTT
How is this newsworthy?
Hear it from a prawf: I don't know what happened here but it wasn't good.
We read (when we do read them) our 1L reviews with a grain of salt. You get dinged for being rough, but you have a duty to start to treat students like a judge would or opposing counsel would- not like their college English seminar professor would. Fact is, 1Ls don't know what's good for them. You 2Ls and 3Ls actually do have more of an appreciation of this problem. It's almost as if your brain clicks over the first summer and you suddenly get it.
That being said, there are a few things that a 1L professor has to do:
1. Prepare for anything
2. Steer the discussion actively, but not too aggressively, because it's too early for 1Ls to know what a relevant question or point is. Make sure that the class gets to the correct end and that there is some clarity.
3. Be unstintingly demanding about class preparation. No excuses unless approached prior to the start of class.
4. Be respectful.
5. Be reasonably available. No, we can't meet with all 100 of you for 4 hours each, but we can and should be accessible right after class and stick to our office hours.
6. Show your passion from the material, put a twist on the reading to make it lively
7. Have a sense of humor about yourself. It goes a long way- students (and humans, generally) are more forgiving in those cases. But see 3, supra.
8. As noted, be tough. It's only the beginning of a lifetime in this arena.
How is this newsworthy?
It doesn't sound like she was egregiously bad, just normal bad.
Rough day for Linda McLain. I'd feel bad for her except that I can't muster sympathy for feminists. They are generally grating and unpleasant, and therefore can't expect to be liked.
When I hear an anecdote about a person, I place that person into a mental category, and impose all sorts of stereotypes upon them to explain the anecdote. It works well and reduces cognative dissonance.
Similar junk goes on at probably every law school. I went to a Tier 1 law school, and I had some pathetic professors, some of whom tried to turn their classes into soapboxes for their political views, paid for (of course) by your tuition and tax dollars. As long as law schools have a government-backed and ABA-controlled monopoly on legal education and thus aren't required by market discipline to produce a product which students actually will choose to purchase--instead of being required to do so in order to complete a step in the arduous process of being admitted to a bar--then there will be tenure-protected professors on the welfare rolls of law schools.
Those 1Ls won't care one bit about any of this one year from now. Why should we?
You do know her house caught on fire shortly after she started teaching, right? That would distract anyone.
BU 1Ls should be grateful they didn't have USC's shining-star property prof, Naomi STTTolzenberg.
If law students generally (not just at BU) would let professors know when the presentation of the material isn't effective, there would be fewer problems like this.
And if law professors would be more accepting of feedback -- especially during the term (and not at the end when everybody is pissed off and tired) -- there would be fewer problems like this.
But maybe it's a bit much to ask anybody in legal education to act like adults for 5 minutes. Not knowing the content of the evaluations, I'm going to venture a guess that there was a class campaign to give across-the-board 1s coupled with immature, nonconstructive feedback.
As soon as I read the dean's reaction and response I knew the professor in question was a minority female.
Aint affirmative action grand!
What did she do that was so atrocious, aside from being ineffective? It sounds nowhere near as bad as Kendall Thomas, who leaves the class to answer his cell phone during student presentations.
BU 1Ls got GULC'd
What is wrong w/ what 39 said? Looks pretty lame to me.
Bunch of spoiled cry babies. They had a tough professor and now they're complaining about it?
They had an answer key that was incorrect and not a single student figured it out until the professor pointed it out?
These students are clearly spoiled.
This is a waste of a post.
Who cares what a 1L thinks?
Bunch of spoiled cry babies. They had a tough professor and now they're complaining about it?
They had an answer key that was incorrect and not a single student figured it out until the professor pointed it out?
These students are clearly spoiled.
She was horribly ineffective, but the reaction by my classmates demonstrates both how out of character her teaching was with the extremely high caliber of the other faculty and how immature my classmates are. Really, get over it. This happened last semester. When you grow up and join the real world, you will have ineffective managers and colleagues. You probably had ineffective teachers before as well, but you seem to have managed this far OK. Why don't you move on.
How is this newsworthy?
is anyone surprised by this? This same Dean probably has been on dozens of panels and/or other such venues pontificating about how there needs to be more "transparency" from the the governmental institutions blah, blah, blah. But, when it comes to being open about what the students who pay the bills at her institution think about a faculty member, um, no such transparency exists. Typical of the "elites".
6, 41, 62
Only one thing can be worse than Con Law with KT - the way that the CLS Dean's Office handled the student complaints.
Fuck CLS. They don't give a shit about their students, and that episode proved it.
61: She's white, and you're an idiot.
Chill out, #61, don't you know that affirmative action is simply to provide a level playing field, since we all know that any white male FSU law graduate, who never published in a main law review and whose "clerking" experience is five months at a state appellate court, would get automatic tenure at a T25 law school despite receiving 1's on his teaching evaluations, and be defended by the Dean trying to hide the poor evaluations.
Bad professors are part and parcel of law school. Good ones are also par for the course. The trick is to find practice exams and aim for the top of the curve, instead of attempting to "learn" an amorphous and complicated subject like the law. This advice holds especially true at a school like BU where not everyone will have excellent post-graduation options. This advice does not govern at Yale.
Teaching law is very hard. Anyone who has tried to distill the black letter law or policy arguments will soon realize that the road to teaching perdition is paved with good intentions. Legal education is, after all, an organic process that comes from the development of independent thought and awareness of institutional norms. It is not a subject per se so much as a form of thinking. Not everyone can grasp it as a 1L, and some, indeed, are forced into a deep depression whereby nothing they learn makes "sense." These people are probably not at the top of the class.
I greatly admire the initiative shown by the BU students, but, to be frank, I think they are asshats. That's my "short and plain" statement. Regardless, I wish them all the best with their legal education and future careers.
12,14: Coming from a veteran of Shanin's class who knows full well what it entails, you must be some humorless fat chick. His self-congratulatory antics and "best of Shanin" highlights are great entertainment. And it's intro to trial ad for Christ's sake. What were you expecting?
What did 39 say!? I came too late to catch it. What I see 39 as having said is innocuous.
73: I think 61 was confused and thought the post was about Bridgewater at WCL based on some previous comments.
Want the administrations attention?
Let them know you'll remember this if/when you ever decide to donate money as an alum.
WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT THIS STORY?
Get back to discussing the job market and relevant issues in the law.
Well done 47.
Sorry I confused Bridgewater too. I blame 45, 46, etc.
~74
12,14: Coming from a veteran of Shanin's class who knows full well what it entails, you must be some humorless fat chick. His self-congratulatory antics and "best of Shanin" highlights are great entertainment. And it's intro to trial ad for Christ's sake. What were you expecting?
Guys at my high school used to give 1L Property professors bad reviews all the time.
It was no big deal.
it amazes me to this day that ATL never did a story on Kendall Thomas at CLS...I know of at least 3 people who sent David Lat "tips" about the saga with the experimental method and the horrid evaluations and the dean's meeting. Lord knows, maybe this new editor will finally get around to covering that abomination of a class.
Does anyone else picture 75 typing this in a rare and uncharacteristic fit of eloquence (see Will Ferrell's debate speech in Okd School)?
Students did point out the mistakes in the answer keys, but whenever someone emailed her about it, she responded to the individual saying to disregard the question rather than emailing the whole class. She also changed the format of the exam (open book or not) three times the week before the exam.
Yes, she was ineffective but it's a shame this is distracting from the otherwise high caliber of the professors at BU. I honestly think a big part of our disappointment with her was due to the high standards set by our otherwise excellent professors.
Also, her house didn't burn down until like the middle of the semester. And only one of my classmates was heartless enough to actually say something like she deserved it.
aah, sounds like good ole BU policies at work. Regardless of a 1L's (mis)conceptions about how a prof should act in class, BU loves to suppress student outrage because (they believe) it hurts their image in the eyes of future students and donors. However, if you keep fighting, things do change. The problem is that most students feel totally defeated after being told "no" by the administration, but as someone who has fought against the machinations of Boston University, change does come so long as you don't wait to see it happen while you're still enrolled.
F@#k first years, what about all of these god damn layoffs??? K&S? Wiley? Skadden DC?
wtf
Incidentally, some of the reviews for KT's Con Law are pure gold.
These are her credentials actually:
A.B., with High Honors in Religion, Oberlin College
M.A., University of Chicago Divinity School
J.D., cum laude, Georgetown University Law Center
LL.M., New York University School of Law
aah, sounds like good ole BU policies at work. Regardless of a 1L's (mis)conceptions about how a prof should act in class, BU loves to suppress student outrage because (they believe) it hurts their image in the eyes of future students and donors. However, if you keep fighting, things do change. The problem is that most students feel totally defeated after being told "no" by the administration, but as someone who has fought against the machinations of Boston University, change does come so long as you don't wait to see it happen while you're still enrolled.
U of C divinity school? So she can bake? Awesome.
where's the GULC guy? I feel like he'll have something to say about this.
i think my section mates have totally overreacted. yes, she had some communication problems with students and she made some mistakes regarding the final exam, but she was a perfectly competent teacher during the semester (she didn't just read out of the casebook). the fact that she wasn't as good as some of our other professors (who were fantastic) doesn't warrant these overblown complaints. move on!
Wow 91, cum laude from GULC. That's good enough to be a Shearman drone but probably not a top law prof.
What the hell was post 39 about? I'm guessing it was removed, because current one seem harmless.
I went to BU undergrad, they don't give a shit about their students. I'm sure this carries over to the grad schools too.
I don't remember a professor getting an offer to joing the my law school's faculty without first spending a semester as a visiting professor. There is possible exception, but he was too well-credentialed to pass by and (fortunately) turned out to be a very good professor.
97, BU undergrads are drooling mouth-breathers.
Ha ha! She got a "general" LLM from NYU... not even for tttax. What a fucking joke.
There are also rumors that this prof came as part of a "package deal." BU actually wanted her husband and offered the wife a position to convince him to come here.
at least she read the casebook - Bridgewater just made up the holdings
does BU still have the really hot admissions director? i met her at a bar about six years ago. man, was she on the go team.
BU Law = TTT
45--
Prof. McClain's pedigree is actually:
Paul M. Siskind Research Scholar
Professor of Law
A.B., with High Honors in Religion, Oberlin College
M.A., University of Chicago Divinity School
J.D., cum laude, Georgetown University Law Center
LL.M., New York University School of Law
http://www.bu.edu/law/faculty/profiles/bios/full-time/mcclain_l.html
Not sure why you'd lie about that, GULC and NYU are TTT enough to make the point.
old-39 was like a 12 page press release claiming that Obama had "admitted" he was not born in the U.S. in that Berg lawsuit and demanding he drop out of the election.
24, you're so whiny and inarticulate that I'm pretty embarrassed that you go to BU..
Boston Tea Party - Part Deux!!
WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT THIS STORY?
Get back to discussing the job market and relevant issues in the law.
101: My worst two professors at NYU were both wives of other professors there. They also got to teach whatever fun bullshit classes they wanted.
This is pretty common. Professors at my undergrad sometimes talked about threatening to leave if their wives weren't given jobs.
Is it getting clear that the majority of readers of this blog are law students and law student wannabes. But of course don't tell the advertisers.
I don't understanding why Prof. McClain is being treated like this. I had her for 1L property at Hofstra and thought that she was fine.
109: Wait a minute, you actually come here for prescient discussion of legal issues, including the job market?
Hahahahahahaha
Now I feel better that BU sent me a letter of rejection four months after I'd withdrawn my application. At first I thought I was being unnecessarily insulted, now I know it was just a warning to stay away.
Sucks to BU.
1L at Disneyland
BU Law = TTT
Stop with the "1Ls are stupid, they don't know what good professors are" comments. The 1Ls in question are now halfway through their 2L year and obviously still feel strongly about the issue.
Regardless, this article is completely unnecessary. There is no need to compound McClain's embarrassment; I'm sure reading her own evaluations was bad enough.
"known for her work in family law and feminist legal theory"
"Her recent book offers a liberal and feminist perspective on the relationship between family life and the polity and on a number of contested issues of family law and policy, including governmental promotion of marriage, the denial of marriage to same-sex couples, welfare policy and constitutional rights to reproductive freedom."
"Her work has engaged with prominent communitarian, civic republican and feminist critiques of liberal legal and political theory and offered a reconstructive liberal feminist approach to such matters as privacy, family and marriage, reproductive issues and welfare law."
"She is also on the advisory board of the Georgetown Journal of Gender and Law and the Feminist Sexual Ethics Project."
"Her recent book offers a liberal and feminist perspective on the relationship between family life and the polity."
Maybe she and Pnina Lahav should get married...
MysTTTal
Wait a minute. Ineffective or non-existent training? Getting reamed in public for the smallest of transgressions? Terribly ineffective communication from superiors? Sounds like private practice to me.
Liberal AND feminist? Wow! A twofer!
1:54 (1)- damn straight. I had the one-two punch of Stoltzenberg and Armour (for Crim law). Glad to hear others have to suffer through similar gender/race/class BS in 1L courses.
Having gone to BU, I can tell you, the whole school exists to teach you about unfairness and bureaucracy. The sooner you stop whining and make the best of it, the better off you'll be.
"Dean O'Rourke has (at least) two constituencies, she has to protect the reputation of the faculty to be sure, but she also has to make the students feel like their concerns are being addressed."
THE PERVASIVE RUN-ON SENTENCES DRIVE ME CRAZY. Come on. You're not writing an email to your buddy; you're publishing something for consumption by thousands of people. Act like it.
Prof. Bridgewater:
Female? Check.
Minority? Check.
Consistently horrible evaluations? Check.
Untouchable? Of course.
Whatever happened to EQUAL opportunity????
Hey people! If you look at her "Ratemyprofessor" ratings, it consists mostly of 3's, which is a pretty good score consider most law professors will get a 2. What are you complaining about? Who cares if she is incoherent or disorganized as long as you get a good grade?
Sheesh!
Why is this a story?
Prof. Bridgewater:
Female? Check.
Minority? Check.
Consistently horrible evaluations? Check.
Untouchable? Of course.
Whatever happened to EQUAL opportunity????
Wow, that sounds terrible. Students complained mid-semester to school officials about a new prof at my school; in response, a more experienced Evidence prof was brought in to "supervise." Things were a little tense between the two professors, but I think it was for the best . . .
pay 120k in tuition and this is what you get?
Same experience with my property professor at Brooklyn Law. He totally mailed it in because his daughter was a 3L at the school (hello free tuition) and he was going to retire at the end of the year.
He got got through 1/3 of the syllabus and refused to teach anything worthwhile. His exam was his environmental exam from the year before, which some students saw before the exam.
Finally, his curve was ridiculous. People who were getting A's in their other classes got C's and B-'s. People getting C's and B-'s were pulling A. He probably graded by the number of pages.
Am I a little bitter?
Yes but only because every other professor I had at BLS was amazing and excellent. I can't believe the administration continue to let him teach 1L classes despite his piss poor reviews for the last decade.
Dude, O'Rourke and McLain are totally doing each other.
Same with Professor Mitch Crusto at WuLaw in '06.
According to what I've read here: the professor read the evaluations, the dean read the evaluations, the evaluations were not posted... but they were acted upon ("the prof in question no longer teaches 1Ls"). THEN the Dean addressed the entire class AND apologized.
If anything, kudos for being so attentive. My school would "look into it" and do nothing.
131,
Crappy professors at BLS? Shocking.
For what it's worth, O'Rourke herself is a fantastic teacher: crystal-clear communication of the material, tough without being insulting, just really professional and engaging; more of a lawyer than an ivory tower egghead, her official post notwithstanding...
The point is that O'Rourke knows good teaching when she sees it, and presumably bad teaching too.
I was in Professor McClain's Property class last semester.
As others have noted, she was very disorganized, easily frazzled, defensive and at times condescending. I think most of these issues stemmed from her inability to take command of the class. She was fine as long as she stuck to her predetermined talking points, but any questions or tangents left her befuddled. That is where she really lost the class.
However, I will admit that our section was at times disrespectful toward her for no real reason. So perhaps the blame doesn't lie entirely with her.
As for Dead O'Rourke's response, I have mixed feelings. There was an official apology. Our entire section was invited, 3 deans including O'Rourke were present, and they even brought out the gourmet cookies and brownies (as opposed to the crap cookies at most BU events). Dean O'Rourke spoke briefly, but her comments cut both ways. While she apologized, there was also a bit of 'shame-on-you' toward our section. She also offered the same justifications in defense of Prof. McClain as given to ATL. The administration is indeed reviewing audio recordings of class (I believe someone in our class had a disability requiring a recording of every class). So I certainly applaud their efforts in trying to rectify the situation, but I don't appreciate how cold and unreasonable Dean O'Rourke was with respect student inquiries regarding course evaluations.
I'll gladly provide information and anecdotes about Kendall Thomas's abomination of a class. It is a disgrace that he is still teaching.
ATL - do a story on how Prof Nesson, HLS evidence professor, routinely teaches stoned out of his mind. Harvard Record wrote a story about it a few years back and it was picked up in the WSJ law blog as well.
I was in that class, and I have to agree -- there were clearly some very spoiled students in it who way overreacted. I think 24's very very lucky that somehow this Prof. was the most irresponsible and incompetent he/she's ever had. Personally, I've had many that were far worse (though not at BU). Also, a number of the students were very disrespectful in class, and that just made things worse. That said, not the greatest professor in the world either, but again, I think all in all this is way more embarrassing for the students than for the Prof. or the Dean.
Despite this debacle BU Law is a great school with a great staff and faculty and we are very lucky. And Dean O'Rourke is pretty great too. :)
Huh, and people wondered why I chose BC over BU....at least the administration gives a shit about us.
BC 1L
Wow, this site really has been taken over by the Autoadmit crowd.
141: Too bad employers don't
143: spoken like a true BU 3L without a job.
BC 1L
143: by "employers" do you mean the lolcatz?
The same rankings (Princeton Review) that rank BU as having the best professors put BC at #5 for career prospects. I think BU was #10?
Once again, sucks to BU.
-1L at Disneyland
If by career prospects, do you mean staff attorney positions? Sure, there's plenty of those for BC grads.
by career prospects, do you mean staff attorney positions? Sure, there's plenty of those for BC grads.
by career prospects, do you mean staff attorney positions? Sure, there's plenty of those for BC grads.
143, 146: Go play in your lazy river - that's the ONLY thing BU has over BC.
- 1L at Disneyland
This is ridiculous. I can understand writing a bad class off as a fluke and letting the professor stick around---but it is unacceptable to try to hide the ball from future prospective students.
Some commenters have compared this to the KT episode at CLS. At least at CLS the reviews have been posted in their full, brutal glory.
What's amazing is that this Prof. wasn't even the worst Property Prof at BU. Thankfully though, he retired.
Emory actually does a very good job in this area and publishes all prof ratings and student comments. I appreciate this a lot more now.
-Emory 3L
I was also in her Property class and think that she suffered from the high expectations that every other professor our section had created in all of us.
I was so excited to have a female professor and she really really disappointed me. Unfortunately she was frequently condescending and hostile to students. She is the only professor I've ever had who wouldn't/couldn't provide answers to student questions. She did not seem comfortable with the material she was teaching. I just think it is very unfortunate that future students won't be able to use valid evaluations in making their course choices.
No other professor who taught our section had similar issues or similar negative evaluations (to my knowledge).
The Dean's meeting probably made things worse, as most of us had just accepted that she wasn't a good professor and moved on. Systematically withholding negative evaluations strikes me as a bad policy.
I think this has been blown out of proportion in part because BU didn't handle situation in a diplomatic fashion.
I just hope this doesn't reflect badly on the other amazing BU professors. This professor made me sincerely appreciate the others I've had both this year and last year.
Speaking of American, Isiah Baker is an embarrasment. He regularly showed up 20 minutes late. On the first day of class, he actually started teaching the wrong course.
Elie sure knows how to pick 'em. I'm surprised this received so much attention...the # of posts thus far seems right on target with the LSAT score needed to attend BU Law!
is this ryckman's replacement?
Cheers to the great dean!
First: This is really a non-issue not worthing of posting. This happens at all schools.
Second: The BU students should be happy that they have such a responsive administration. Here at CLS, our resident bad teacher was allowed to continue teaching 1Ls. At least at BU they did something about it for the next year's students.
22. Penn ≠ Penn State
University of Pennsylvania = Ivey League school in Philly.
Pennsylvania State University (Penn State) = State College, Pa; Dickinson campus in Erie; Joe Pa and the Nittany Lions.
Dean O'Rourke is ugly as shit
Complaining about professors gets you no where, or at least that has been my experience at Temple. The administration smiles and acts like they appreciate your concern, but no steps are ever taken. I don't even understand why they bother to ask for feedback in the first place.
158-
U Penn State is in the Ivey League? I thought they were in the Bige 10.
Deciding not to publish the evaluations is a huge cop-out on the part of BU. Publish all or publish none-- don't cherry-pick to protect professors whom the administration likes more than the students do.
Of course if you choose to publish none, you run the risk of sending a disgruntled class in droves to places like Ratemyprofessors.com, where the entire world can see not only the rankings but the comments (my school publishes summaries of the evaluation scores, but individual comments are available only to admin and the faculty member). I'm surprised there are only 4 comments there for this professor, given what seem to be widespread complaints. Were I a BU student in that class, I'd have been on that site the minute I heard that the evals would not be published by the school.
Having been out of a t-10 law school for a few years and doing corporate work, my only shock was that she is only a woman. Given the dean's strong response, I expected her to be a double minority.
I did do some google checking and the prof seems to have a number of same sex partnership articles, so that may count the same as being a double minority.
In 2004, Kendall Thomas did not finish grading Spring 1L Con Law exams until July. Decisions on journal invitations had to be made without the grades of the students in that class.
151 Ryckman was a great professor, you probably didn't even have him
151 Ryckman was a great professor, you probably didn't even have him
Ryckman was great. Seipp sucked.
We had a similar result in my 1L crim law class. We spent all but about four days of the term on the definition of born alive under the common and statutory law of murder, and the class was meandered horribly.
Apparently, this was unusual given the teacher's history of instruction -- he was also instrumental in drafting the Model Penal Code.
As I recall it, the Dean talked to the professor, the professor sent a letter of apology to all of the students ( probably still have it in my files, I'm a pack rat), and the tenured professor (who was well over age sixty five at the time) retired shortly afterwards.
Perhaps the University of Michigan just had a different attitude towards teaching at the time.
168, I also had a similar result in my 1L class at a top law school taught by a brilliant professor and as I recall it I was so skilled at politics that I convinced the Dean to discuss the matter with the professor during their weekly cribbage game and the professor apologized. I still have the letter somewhere because I have no life and still like to talk and brag about law school.
Dean O is the hottest woman I have ever, especially when she is running around in a two piece suit and bright white gym socks. Grrar.
Thos can't do teach.
My torts professor at a top 10 school was hopped up on barbituates all semester. She admitted it to us at the end of the semester. It was really uncomfortable, since she did not know many of the facts of the cases, etc. Sometimes professors have regular problems in their lives like the rest of us.
BU law is a corporation like any other, so the PR damage control is not surprising. You could end up like BC and drop precipitously in the rankings.
61 You are wrong to assume she's a minority. Your comment says more about you than anything.
B.U. is like most law schools, quick to skew the mix when it is to their benefit.
What really offends my sense of fair play is the Dean's justification for pulling the bad reviews from being reported as represented to students "... to give a faculty colleague with a long history of teaching a fresh start at her new home."
Just for fun, let's reverse that to " ... to give a 1L with a long history of top 10% grades a fresh start at her new home." Would the Dean be so forgiving with a student who pays BU's astronomical tuition when the student receives an uncharacteristic low grade/review?
Of course not. Shame on you Dean O.