Fall Recruiting Follow-Up: Part I
What can men do against such reckless hate?
Unless you are in the top 3rd of your class at a top school, or in the top 10% of your class at a lower ranked school, fall recruiting is kicking your ass. After sifting through nearly 300 comments to our fall recruiting open thread, one dominant theme emerges:
What's different this year is that the bottom 60% at top schools and the bottom 90% of lower-ranked schools is not doing well.
In Part I of our fall recruiting follow-up, we'll explore some general themes and discuss which markets are particularly struggling. In Part II we'll look at which law schools are doing fine, and which ones are not living up to their promises of milk, honey, and money.
Many commenters had stories of great fall recruiting success, much like I have awesome "stories" about that one time I had sex with this one girl ... and her sister, in Canada. But even if we leave aside some of the unattributed tales of personal greatness, the consistent meme is that top students are still doing just fine.
For everybody else there seems to be a clear move by firms to limit the size of their summer classes:
offer guarding seems prevalent; firms don't want to accidentally end up with big classes that they have to no-offer because too many took summer positions.
Here's another take:
T-20 school, top 20% w/ journal. I had 14 callbacks all within the V25 in NY. I ended up going on 9 of the 14 and took an offer at a V15 because I honestly was exhausted by the process and didn't think I would take any of the remaining firms over what I had if they panned out. Of those 9 however, I only received 3 offers. I was told that last year 67% of callbacks in NY resulted in offers. I could be inept, but since I had around a 70% callback rate, I don't think that's likely. Additionally, almost none of my friends have offers. I really think the firms are trying to exercise more control by only extending offers to those they are certain are going to accept.
Reports about which legal markets are worth avoiding after the jump.
Specific markets seem to be doing worse than others. It should be obvious that San Francisco is not the best place to be looking for work right now:
In San Fran, most firms have seriously cut back their summer programs, many by half.I have received and accepted an offer, but many of my classmates are getting ding after ding...it looks like many of us won't have a home this summer, and people are (appropriately) freaking out.
But the problems in the D.C. market are somewhat more surprising:
T10, top 15%, opted not to do journal, other extracurriculars though. Have some callbacks at V10's in NYC. But as for like the top 8 firms/offices in DC, zero luck. I have plenty of other offers/callbacks from other firms in DC (including some ranked 10-15 by Vault in DC) but those top DC firms were extremely ruthless this year.
Whenever things get tough, many campus career services types suggest trying out secondary markets. But this year no city is offering a particularly soft landing:
I'm at a T25, 20%, LR, and went a solid 4-26 at OCI's with firms in my secondary market, and I'm a pretty socially adept person. Did a mass mailing campaign, and netted five callbacks within a week, most with phone screens. Either I'm extremely ugly, or secondary markets are really taking a hit in my school's market.
Not even below the Mason-Dixon line:
Miami and ATL appear to be cutting way back...miami especially...
The only market that our commenters felt positive about is Chicago:
I'm interviewing from HLS in Chicago and I haven't seen any sign the economy is hurting recruiting.Everybody I know that interviewed at Mayer Chicago has gotten a callback.
All but 1 among people I know got a callback at Katten Chicago.
Most people have gotten callbacks and Jenner Chicago.
Latham/Jones Day/Sidley/Kirkland/Winston/McDermott all have yet to do callbacks (Sidley/Winston/McDermott haven't interviewed yet).
Basically, as far as I can tell, Chicago is doing just fine at HLS.
And no matter where you are interviewing, if you are a 3L you might have a better chance of getting a call from a dead relative than a hiring law firm:
T14 3L, had a firm (as opposed to cold) offer at a v20 firm, only 2 callbacks (none directly through OCI), haven't heard back yet.Hard times to be a 3L, good luck everyone.
One tipster writes in to say:
3L's doing recruiting at HLS are getting nothing in terms of callbacks. every 2L class complains that recruiting is hard -- but 3L's getting no callbacks at all is sorta empirically solid evidence that recruiting is indeed very hard"
Ah, yes HLS. All is not well at HLS (except apparently, in Chicago). But is it the legendary "toxicity" of HLS students causing this breakdown in the hierarchy of the legal universe, or is it the HLS tradition of starting OCI so late that people think they are interviewing for the 2010 summer class?
In Part II we will explore which law schools are doing well during this cold winter of fall recruiting.
(319) Comments
last
Bend me over, second.
Copying comments from old posts qualifies as a new post? The comment on atlanta and miami as proof they are slow is beyond weak. How about calling some firms and asking about the size of their summer programs instead?
It seems to me that the smaller summer classes might actually help those who land jobs in the long run. When the class for 2010 comes up for partnership, there presumably be the same number of slots open for partnership, but fewer bodies to fill them.
I could be completely wrong on this (I'm a student), and in any event, this year is very tough for a lot of people. Best of luck to everyone.
T10 2L here - me and all of my friends are getting a lot of offers in NY. Boston and DC seem to be a bit slower. As for me, I'm going to London and that wasn't hard to pull at all. In fact, plenty of people with mediocre grades have gotten a lot of offers.
The main trend I have seen is that the people who are socially inept haven't even been pulling offers at smaller firms as they would have last year.
Please note, this does not affect lucrative and prestigious PI firms.
it DEFINITELY counts as a new post. my eyes started to bleed trying to read through 300 comments on the old post.
Guys at my high school used to tap the ass of Celine Dion and her sister all the time, it was no big deal.
FRAT STUD
Nice 8. V. nice.
Thank god I got a job last year before everything went to hell in a handbasket....
Celine Dion doesn't have a sister.
i do like the Lord of the Rings quote to start out the post.
"But even if we leave aside some of the unattributed tales of personal greatness, the consistent meme is that top students are still doing just fine."
"Meme" and "theme" are not synonymous. Elie meant "theme."
"The main trend I have seen is that the people who are socially inept haven't even been pulling offers at smaller firms as they would have last year."
As a socially objectionable T10 2L I can personally confirm this.
Seriously though, it DEFINITELY does not count as a new post.
The same shit comments are going to be posted in this thread as the last.
Talk to firms. We already know what students think.
:(
*starts looking at judges chambers for 1L summer - won't settle for anything less than 2, 7, 9th, or DC circuit*
-nervous T-10 1L
Did anyone hear that Jimmy Kimmel and Sarah Silverman are back together? There's also a Pa. lemon law firm called "Kimmel & Silverman." That's funny.
http://www.lemonlaw.com/
T14, 20%, 10 Callbacks, Did 4 and got 2 offers. Accepted a V5 offer.
Bring on Part II! And we don't want to hear only about the ivys. Some of us care about state schools like Penn and Michigan too.
Patent law is booming. Bitches.
HLS is having a particularly hard time- theyre later in the season and its getting bleaker and bleaker. but they are HARVARD so they will all land on their feet.
i have a good friend whose a 3L at Penn and his 3L friends who are looking for work (for whatever reason) are absolutely dying out there. 3Ls are really getting killed.
11, Celine Dion has 7 sisters. Menage a huit!
Some of us care about state schools like Penn and Michigan too.
__________________________________________
No we don't.
":(
*starts looking at judges chambers for 1L summer - won't settle for anything less than 2, 7, 9th, or DC circuit*
-nervous T-10 1L"
HAHAHA. Way to set your sights low. Are you serious? You think that's settling? You are in for some serious sadness in the near future,
As a patent lawyer, here's what I have to say about this thread:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .....
T14, 25%, LR, Atlanta market, 10 callbacks, 8 attended, 6 offers
HLS 2L: 22 of 24 OCI interviews done so far, 5CB's in LA (2) & NY (3). It's a bloody civil war out there.
Will report back after all the call back deadlines have passed. Meantime, will be looking into whether or not eating 1 meal a day is sustainable.
2L at TTT NYC school, top 15%, law journal. Fortunate to have a few offers in NY, all 1 V50 firm, 2 V40 firms. The question I am struggling with is, how to choose where to accept from the standpoint of minimizing the chances of being no-offered at the end of next summer. I keep going back and talking to these firms, and keep getting fed the same B.S. What questions can I ask these firms to elicit a more helpful answer about this?
T5 2L, who probably qualifies on the "socially inept" scale (not arrogant, just a little shy), but good grades, having trouble getting NY offers. My sense is people are still getting a few offers, but not as many, and we're struggling far more than we would have in the past. It's a bitch.
2L at TTT NYC school, top 15%, law journal. Fortunate to have a few offers in NY, 1 V50 firm, 2 V40 firms. The question I am struggling with is, how to choose where to accept from the standpoint of minimizing the chances of being no-offered at the end of next summer. I keep going back and talking to these firms, and keep getting fed the same B.S. What questions can I ask these firms to elicit a more helpful answer about this?
2L at TTT NYC school, top 15%, law journal. Fortunate to have a few offers in NY, 1 V50 firm, 2 V40 firms. The question I am struggling with is, how to choose where to accept from the standpoint of minimizing the chances of being no-offered at the end of next summer. I keep going back and talking to these firms, and keep getting fed the same B.S. What questions can I ask these firms to elicit a more helpful answer about this?
I am assuming HLS 2L is a Hofstra 2L because no real Harvard law student would only get 5 callbacks. Right, Elie?
DC is obviously slow right now. We have an election upcoming that will have an affect on what happens inside the beltway for the next 8 years.
co-sign 24. nervous T-10 1L needs to go. bring back JT.
GULC grads are obviously doing quite well. I have 234 offers from all V25 firms.
How are things shaping up at University of Montana?
2L at TTT school here, again (29, 30, 31- sorry, my computer is retarded, apparently).
On the "socially inept" note- I managed to talk (charm?) my way into callbacks (and in at least one case, an offer) at firms whose "hard GPA cut-off" I did not meet. I was also dinged by firms whose GPA cut-off was top 20%, and when I thought the interview went swimmingly. So I'm not sure what that says.
lighten up you guys. are all lawyers this irritable? i should remember that for my interviews.
-nervous T-10 1L
Top 40% at upper third-tier school. No journal, but moot court and SBA leadership position. VERY personable and EXTREMELY socially adept. GREAT interview skillz. Over 40 resumes mailed and only 1 interested response. Starting to think I might have to look outside V50.
Of course 3Ls aren't getting jobs, who needs them? 3Ls are either 2Ls who are whiners and don't realize the biglaw firm they're interviewing with is going to have the same things wrong with it (document review, long hours, demanding partners, etc) as the one they're trying to leave or were cold offered and why would you want to hire someone who stinks?
More importantly, in this market, hooray for these firms that aren't hiring 3Ls and are trying to give what billables they have to the juniors they already have and the incoming associates they had already made offers to as summers rather than dilute everyone's billables (and bonus) further.
32- I went to Hofstra.. I had 35 interviews, 14 callbacks and 8 offers. All from top 100 firms.... Suck it !
brutal for 3L's. T10 3L decent grades. 5 callbacks. 4 dings already. waiting for my last hope.
I've only been getting NY offers from satellite offices of firms HQ'd in other cities...
so now the question is: go to NY in a satellite or a bigger HQ with more options in a place like Atlanta?
Ahhhhh.
Nervous T-10 1L:
If I was to tell you that all lawyers are this irritable, would you drop out of law school and disappear?
If the answer is yes, then we are all this irritable and every attorney gets herpes within 5 months of passing the bar. These are just the facts.
I hope to God 39 is kidding.
39- in my (admittedly limited) experience, nobody gives a shit about SBA, and most people don't even give a shit about journals - it's grades, then personality. If I were you, I would apply to firms who are looking at top third of your school, and firms that look at top half to be safe.
39 - I love how you describe yourself as "VERY personable and EXTREMELY socially adept." I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but is VERY unlikely and EXTREMELY improbable that you will receive a V50 offer.
-V10 Associate
HLS students should be pissed as hell about the school's arrogant late timing for OCI. The economy had fully tanked by the time that HLS had its on-campus interviews. And the firms had already given many offers to students from other schools.
48 - you are right. Minor correction though, you should phrase that in the present tense. Economy is still tanking, unfortch.
45 -- Not kidding. 1 response and no offers from the 43 firms I applied to in the V50 (I'd be willing to go to almost any of those firms -- there are 7 that I'm not particularly impressed by) . It sucks for me b/c since I"m not top 10% I can't go through OCI with most of these firms at my school.
39 -- how are your dubious social skills relevant to a resume mailing?
How about a few follow-ups on some of this summer's no offer firms?
For example, DLA Piper-NY, a firm that was very slippery when contacted by ATL, STILL hasn't contacted any SAs who were placed on a wait-list. Obviously, DLA is hoping that these summers will find other jobs and take themselves out of the running (and it will not have to publish so many no offers on the NALP website).
I'm interested to see if DLA made good on its "generous" promise to give offers to "more than 2/3" of its summer associate class.
46 - I agree with almost all that you have said, except for the journal part. Firms really like to see journals because it is very similar to much of the work you will do as an associate - takes too much time when you have other things to be doing, is not extremely challenging, and can often be mindless.
11: HAHAHAH LOSER
HLS-ers -- Chillax. First week firms give fewer callbacks. Third week firms will be handing out callbacks a-plenty -- even in these troubling times in which we're living in.
I think 39 is a joke. At least I hope it is. Top 40% at, quite literally, a TTT, will not get you into a Top 50 firm. I mean COME ON!
Still no reporting about a certain avian event?
Haven't you heard? It was my understanding that everyone had heard.
50 - I think 45 stated "I hope you're kidding" not as a reaction to the lack of interest you have received. Instead, his reaction was to the fact you actually think you can get a V50 firm from a T3 school without a stellar resume.
39 -- how are your dubious social skills relevant to a resume mailing?
I wonder if firms like Weil (and others) issuing "things are great" emails are also being more generous with their callbacks and summer offers?
39/50 -
It's not your lack of success that I find surprising. It's your expectations. You are outside the top 1/3 at an "upper third-tier school"? WTF is an upper third-tier school? Third tier is not even ranked. And SBA? Who the fuck cares about SBA? You would not have gotten a vault job in a good economy.
-45
39 is hilarious. Way better than that nervous TTT-10 1L loser.
Illinois 2L. Everything still seems peachy with the Chicago market. Ample callbacks and offers all around.
Unless we're talking about Foley. Foley's got their heads in their asses on like 4 different levels.
Agree with 45. You need a STELLAR resume to get V50 outside of T1 or T2.
Perspective:
Im a 3L at UVA. working at a V20 firm next summer, in NY. I wasnt on LR, had very decent/middle of the pack grades. Nothing special. I had something like 20 callbacks last year, and about 7-8 offers of the 10-12 i went on. i wound up choosing between white/case, dewey, jones day and fried frank (and the firm i ultimately went to).
i bumped into this 2L i know- hes on LR, went to an Ivy League undergrad, is personable. hes making a similar choice: dewey, jones day, paul hastings. nothing against ANY of those firms, but come on - Law Review at a Top 10 school coming down to those three??
it is bad out there.
Figured I'd toss my stats out for comparisons:
T14 Law School, Top 30% of class but with a couple horrible grades that make you wonder if I was doing meth during the test, no journal.
Applied to just DC firms, 28 OGIs, 4 Callbacks, 4 Offers. All at satellite offices (which I don't care about) and nothing above v20 (again, not that it bothers me).
39
Also from an upper third tier, but top 15% with law review, barristers and a federal clerkship. Still having trouble. From resume mailings to ALL biglaw (over 250 mailings) in all major atlantic and midwest markets. No callbacks.
Might be because clerk hiring season is in spring, but I had better creds as a 3L (top 10%) and got only one interview.
Truth is that going to a third-tier was a bad choice. Upon seeing my LSAT, knowing full well that I was practicing 10 points higher, I look back and say I should have either got a masters and went to a better school or something because this hasn't worked out.
Wish I had better feedback.
The advice given to me was to start mid-size if possible, gain experience, build reputation and connections, then lateral into a biglaw spot. I will pass the same on to you.
39/50 here -- All of you uppity pretentious Ivy league wannabe aristocrats can suck it. There's no difference between mine and your educations. I know I'm going to have to work harder to get my foot in the door because I don't have the silver spoon OCI programs that YHS people have. But employers don't care about the name on your diploma, they care about who you are and what you can bring to the firm. I've tried to communicate this in my cover letters, which is why I'm certain something will pan out for me, even if it does take a little bit of time.
Good post, Elie. I’m a 2L, top 30 school, top 30%, LR with zero offers as of yet, so I’m not sure whether to be comforted or terrified that so many other students are feeling my pain.
I guess, what I’d like to know is what to do now? Any experienced attorneys out there have thoughts on what the next step is for 2L’s with no offers on the table?
Top 20% at Tier Three with LR and moot court. Only 1 OCI (DuaneMorris) that wasn't JAG. Mailed out over 100 resumes, no interviews there either. Our Top 10% aren't even getting offers. One offer in the entire 2L class, and she's numero uno.
Fucking DC, man! I'm T10 15% no journal, fairly personable, and I'm 3-6 Boston, 2-6 NY, 1-12 DC!
Anyone hear any recruiting/offer news about MoFo's California offices? Thanks!
Top 20% at Tier Three with LR and moot court. Only 1 OCI (DuaneMorris) that wasn't JAG. Mailed out over 100 resumes, no interviews there either. Our Top 10% aren't even getting offers. One offer in the entire 2L class, and she's numero uno.
let's see part two elie (good post btw). my 2L friends seem to be doing alright in the chicago market, still getting offers at around the median.
*prepares massive chicago mail merge*
-nervous T-10 1L
39: I do hope this is a joke. If not, you're holding a very weak hand, and I recommend folding. If you're building up debt, you epitomize the law student who's getting scammed. All of that money, and all you get is a handful of magic beans and some false hope.
Look regional. Not v100.
TTT-1L, get back to class. Your job next summer, as long as you have one, is meaningless. Come back in a year and freak out then.
39/50/68-
I hope you're right. There are plenty of mid-size firms in the city and smaller firms (even on Long Island) that have historically had connections with Hofstra. I would play up your alumni connection to anyone who's willing to listen.
San Francisco has been a bloodbath. Top 1/3 at a Top 5. Received multiple Vault 10 offers in New York. Not even a callback from MoFo or Latham in San Francisco.
so would it be better to take a satellite office position in a larger market like new york or to take a position at a firm's larger headquarters in a smaller market like atlanta?
Top 40% at Hofstra, no journal, no moot court, no SBA. 5 resumes sent out, no callbacks. May have to start looking outside V5.
Obama will restructure the summer associate hunting season to make it more "FAIR" for the middle of the road academic voters. It's not just about T14Street, it's about TTTStreet and it's about time that those at the bottom of the toilet received a fair chance at the top firms. Firms that recruit at T14 schools will simply pay a nominal fee (not a tax) to hire the best students while those firms that recruit out of the toilet will see their taxes decreased in the Obama nation.
ATL Obama Grass Roots Organizer,
Loyola 2L
Hogan or Covington?
stop relying on OCI and career services at your schools and put some effort forward. Call and email like crazy! check sites with job postings like Outlines.com and don't give up
HAHAHA 39/50 is getting agitated and just admitted why he is getting no attention. He is actually telling firms that it doesn't matter where he went to school.
Listen buddy, hiring is a market economy of some sort. If firms really thought your education was as good as mine they would hire you. They aren't hiring you. Thus, your education is deemed weaker.
Now, you may be far more intelligent than I am, but to a firm your school makes you a risk.
You f-ed up by going to a T3 school. Sorry buddy.
im a 3L wondering if there will be any 2Ls at my firms offer dinner next week.
65- You must be kidding too. There is a HUGE difference between Jones Day (best of the three) Paul Hastings (2nd best) and DEWEY. Dewey isn't even a top 50 firm. The other two are very well respected.
stop relying on OCI and career services at your schools and put some effort forward. Call and email like crazy! check sites with job postings like Outlines.com and don't give up
The top third at Northwestern is having no problems at all getting jobs at top DC firms. Most people in this group have a significant number of offers in hand, including plenty of success at W&C, Kirkland, Covington, Skadden, Wilmer, Latham, Hogan, Sidley, etc.
Sadly, NU isn't doing quite as well in other markets. Rumor has it that even top 5% + LR at NU isn't good enough this year to get an offer from the elite Bratislava offices.
83 -- I'm not TELLING them it don't matter; I'm telling them who I AM, which is what they care about. Firms hire people, not diplomas. I know my chances aren't great coming from a third tier school, but it is one of the top among all them, and also most of the 7 firms I didn't bother applying to were in the V15. I'm being realistic but optimistic. That's the only way to get through life.
77 - That doesn't seem out of line with normal recruiting. Even in very good years, top 1/3 at a Top 5 is by no means guaranteed a callback at MoFo or Latham SF. They are very selective offices of generally selective firms.
Any other T14-ers headed to regional firms after this season? I have offers in DC, but this round of blood baths and desperation has proven to be most distasteful. Fly over country for me!
79, don't be a dick. There's no call for it. In the end, especially when the economy rebounds, intelligent and hard-working lawyers will succeed at finding and thriving in rewarding (financially, at least) law firm jobs.
39/50/68:
Your education is the same as ours. Largely true. However, your marketability is not. Law firms don't hire degrees, they hire intelligences. The top schools aren't marketable by virtue of the education they provide, but by the quality of students that they accept and graduate.
You're at a TTT and you're only mustering top 40? If you were vault material, you would be excelling at that school, not treading water. There's a reason why only the top 10% get to do OCI at TTTs: 90% of TTT students are unfit for biglaw, and are more suited to practicing rural family law or be a small town PD. That's you.
You had your chance to prove yourself as a candidate last year, and you failed miserably, pulling average grades at a weak school. Maybe you'll be a good lawyer, but there's no reason for a Vault firm to assume you will and make the investment in you. They'd rather go with a sure bet.
When did this blog start sucking so hard? I take a little hiatus and come back to THIS?!
88 - who are you?
no problem getting callbacks and offers at WILDMAN HARROLD
39/50 - being optimistic is fine, but realize the truth here: firms hire diplomas as long as the person with that diploma isn't a d-bag. Personality is the final metric, stop treating it like the first thing they care about.
This is all simple logic: firms want to make money from clients who want to see T10 firms next to the associates' names. Given the choice, a large firm will take a T10 student who is not a complete ass over you even if you are the nicest person in the world.
I worked in Wilmington, DE my 1L summer and I realized something there. If you are a smart lawyer from a decent school you can make over 1MM a year as a partner there. The work is tough and really interesting. Give it a look.
Houston's doing great.
94 -- I'm your future managing partner.
72: I had a MoFo callback but no offer
2L top 10% NY market TTT. Those in top 15%-20% getting offers from V50 (including some V5) and big regional firms. Everyone else seems to be out of luck.
no problem getting callbacks and offers at WILDMAN HARROLD
Hogan or Covington?
88/39
This is 67, again. Firms do care about people. But first, to be realistic, your resume has to get past the initial reviewer's desk. Not being an insider, I don't know if that is a lower-level associate on the recruiting committee or some non-lawyer on a screening committee. However, the resume does have to get past somebody, and because biglaw firms received so many resumes, they have to have useful screening mechanisms. A cover letter is not one of them. GPA, Rank, School, Extracurriculars, Honors--those are the screening tools. Then it comes down to pre-screening, which weeds out people completely devoid of likeable personality traits. Then it comes to callbacks, most of which come directly from OCI follow-ups. So, those of us at third-tier schools are competing for very few interview slots, let alone SA or entry-level positions. The most intelligible and vivid self-advocate cannot, in most cases, overcome those odds.
In short, re-read my post and others who suggest to go mid-size (or regional), then try to lateral in to biglaw later.
As I said in my initial post, I wish there were better news I could offer, but that's the reality of the market.
@85 - What the hell are you talking about? Dewey is V50.
hell, i got 8 rejections yesterday! one of them was wildman harrold, but i had hopes for the others. i've taken it upon myself to send out 20 resumes/transcripts/covers each week. no luck yet. i'm top 1/3 at a school in the 20-30 range, journal, but no law review, went right in after undergrad.
SCREW ALL YOU GUYS! JUST GOT 2 CALLBACKS AT V17 FIRMS IN THE PAST 20 MINUTES! THAT'S KARMA.
--34/50/68
Look, I went to a T4 school. I graduated in the Top 3%. That was largely due to the fact that everyone else was a fucking idiot, but also, I studied my balls off. I also did extra curriculars like Moot Court and LR. I am one of the lucky few- maybe 7% of my graduating class to have a job---maybe only 2% are in BigLaw. Grades are everything, and networking like a horse is important also. I don't want to hear any of you TT bitching. You are where you have to be to get a good job. Act like a grown up and kill it in school. Otherwise, you're wasted talent. We in the TTTT are coming out of school and want to tear heads off of our opposing counsel. We came out with a hunger to prove ourselves. Now you TT students need to prove yourself. Its your choice as to whether you want to cry about it or asolutely Kill It out there.
While I'm sure 99% of you don't care, the market in Florida is HORRIBLE. Many firms cutting their summer positions in half or worse. Was it this bad in the 90's?
39: I second 103's lateraling comment. That's your route into biglaw.
Well, your first route would've been to be good enough to get into a good school. That didn't happen. Your second route would've been to be a good law student at the school you got into. Didn't happen either. If, despite those, you're still convinced that you're biglaw material, and you demonstrate this as a young lawyer, you can lateral your way in. If you cannot demonstrate that, then you are not fit for biglaw. Wanting biglaw and being bubbly doesn't mean getting it. You've gotta, yknow, show some promise too.
#87 - NU is having "plenty of success" at W&C?? They only give offers to like 2-3 people per school. How is that "plenty"? Or is W&C giving out offers like candy at the esteemed Northwestern?
NU troll.
the jobs in the bay area are in silicon valley, not san francisco. only mofo and kirkland do corporate work there anymore. callbacks and offers aplenty in silicon valley.
OK I have to get back to work . This has been a lot of fun. The prize for the best response goes to this guy:
#79 -- "Top 40% at Hofstra, no journal, no moot court, no SBA. 5 resumes sent out, no callbacks. May have to start looking outside V5."
HAHAHA! Laughed my ass off.
Second place goes to everyone who honestly believed that anyone in the top 40% at a "top" third-tier school would be looking for a V50 job. I laughed my ass off at you guys too.
And, 94: I'm Batman.
-- 34/50/68
GULC top third, offers at 2 V10s and one of the "better" DC lit shops, along with a few other callbacks I haven't pursued.
GULC RULES!
I don't think anyone on this board realizes how bad this downturn will get. At this point, a depression -- yes, a fucking depression -- is inevitable. There will be massive layoffs within the next 6 months, including a lot of revoked offers for current 3L's. The firms have no choice -- the work simply isn't there.
The golden days are over. In two years, anyone with a job will be lucky as hell. Some of us will end up on the streets; I wish I was joking.
BTW, I know people who are very high up in the corporate food chain, and they confirm my beliefs. There will be no recovery for at least 5+ years.
T14 3L. Summer offer in NYC but looking for bay area. last year 14 callbacks on 20 interviews. 100% offers on callbacks (mostly bay area), middling grades but journal. This year one of those firms implied offer still stood in September, when i called recently to take them up- no offer. no other firms replied. just glad to have offer from last year.
#39: now you resort to lying to make yourself feel better. I'm glad we've all made you feel that bad about yourself, because that's really what we set out to do, I think: lower your expectations.
I'm also skeptical because you call these callbacks, even though they aren't from OCI. This suggests you have not received any callbacks, as you don't even know what to call them. They're called interviews.
To all of you "third tier" students worried about landing a V100 job - sure the pay is way, way better there, but at least you have better job security at a regional firm. Just ask former Heller and Broebeck associates.
T25, top 3%, LR, 15 interviews, 5 callbacks, 1 v50 offer. I must have interviewed very poorly. I can't help but think in a better market my options would have been significantly more attractive.
#99 - Do you mind saying which office? I've been waiting on several of them with weeks of radio silence...
2L at CA low T2 school. Top 5%, LR. 35 initial interviews with NY, DC, Chicago, SF and LA firms. 12 callbacks in all cities, turned down many more, had 5 offers in NY, SF, LA and DC all V50, some V10. I really think the reason I was able to do that was because I want to go into pat lit. Its stupid for someone interviewing to insist on wanting to do M&A - they are much less likely to hire you when they have no work for you in an area. Make yourself valuable.
You can come from a not-so-good school and make it at a V50 NY firm - but you HAVE to have the credentials (grades mainly). And be proactive, dont wait for them to come to you.
112: Gotham = TTT
I don't think anyone on this board realizes how bad this downturn will get. At this point, a depression -- yes, a fucking depression -- is inevitable. There will be massive layoffs within the next 6 months, including a lot of revoked offers for current 3L's. The firms have no choice -- the work simply isn't there.
The golden days are over. In two years, anyone with a job will be lucky as hell. Some of us will end up on the streets; I wish I was joking.
BTW, I know people who are very high up in the corporate food chain, and they confirm my beliefs. There will be no recovery for at least 5+ years.
Of course 3Ls aren't getting jobs, who needs them? 3Ls are either 2Ls who are whiners and don't realize the biglaw firm they're interviewing with is going to have the same things wrong with it (document review, long hours, demanding partners, etc) as the one they're trying to leave or were cold offered and why would you want to hire someone who stinks?
More importantly, in this market, hooray for these firms that aren't hiring 3Ls and are trying to give what billables they have to the juniors they already have and the incoming associates they had already made offers to as summers rather than dilute everyone's billables (and bonus) further.
Not a bad OCI season for your truly and most of my friends. Definitely less callbacks and offers all around but I landed offers from some of my top choices, including V10 firms.
There was a big difference for some firms after the Lehman meltdown.
I'm slightly below the median at a T10. Secondary journal. WASP male. Mediocre job experience. No graduate degrees.
I had >60% callback rate from screening interviews. I went on only the 6 best callbacks I got, which were all V20 firms school that m