Bend me over, second.

Copying comments from old posts qualifies as a new post? The comment on atlanta and miami as proof they are slow is beyond weak. How about calling some firms and asking about the size of their summer programs instead?

It seems to me that the smaller summer classes might actually help those who land jobs in the long run. When the class for 2010 comes up for partnership, there presumably be the same number of slots open for partnership, but fewer bodies to fill them.
I could be completely wrong on this (I'm a student), and in any event, this year is very tough for a lot of people. Best of luck to everyone.

T10 2L here - me and all of my friends are getting a lot of offers in NY. Boston and DC seem to be a bit slower. As for me, I'm going to London and that wasn't hard to pull at all. In fact, plenty of people with mediocre grades have gotten a lot of offers.

The main trend I have seen is that the people who are socially inept haven't even been pulling offers at smaller firms as they would have last year.

Please note, this does not affect lucrative and prestigious PI firms.

it DEFINITELY counts as a new post. my eyes started to bleed trying to read through 300 comments on the old post.

Guys at my high school used to tap the ass of Celine Dion and her sister all the time, it was no big deal.

FRAT STUD

Nice 8. V. nice.

Thank god I got a job last year before everything went to hell in a handbasket....

Celine Dion doesn't have a sister.

i do like the Lord of the Rings quote to start out the post.

"But even if we leave aside some of the unattributed tales of personal greatness, the consistent meme is that top students are still doing just fine."

"Meme" and "theme" are not synonymous. Elie meant "theme."

"The main trend I have seen is that the people who are socially inept haven't even been pulling offers at smaller firms as they would have last year."

As a socially objectionable T10 2L I can personally confirm this.

Seriously though, it DEFINITELY does not count as a new post.

The same shit comments are going to be posted in this thread as the last.

Talk to firms. We already know what students think.

:(

*starts looking at judges chambers for 1L summer - won't settle for anything less than 2, 7, 9th, or DC circuit*

-nervous T-10 1L

Did anyone hear that Jimmy Kimmel and Sarah Silverman are back together? There's also a Pa. lemon law firm called "Kimmel & Silverman." That's funny.

http://www.lemonlaw.com/

T14, 20%, 10 Callbacks, Did 4 and got 2 offers. Accepted a V5 offer.

Bring on Part II! And we don't want to hear only about the ivys. Some of us care about state schools like Penn and Michigan too.

Patent law is booming. Bitches.

HLS is having a particularly hard time- theyre later in the season and its getting bleaker and bleaker. but they are HARVARD so they will all land on their feet.

i have a good friend whose a 3L at Penn and his 3L friends who are looking for work (for whatever reason) are absolutely dying out there. 3Ls are really getting killed.

11, Celine Dion has 7 sisters. Menage a huit!

Some of us care about state schools like Penn and Michigan too.
__________________________________________

No we don't.

":(

*starts looking at judges chambers for 1L summer - won't settle for anything less than 2, 7, 9th, or DC circuit*

-nervous T-10 1L"

HAHAHA. Way to set your sights low. Are you serious? You think that's settling? You are in for some serious sadness in the near future,

As a patent lawyer, here's what I have to say about this thread:

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .....

T14, 25%, LR, Atlanta market, 10 callbacks, 8 attended, 6 offers

HLS 2L: 22 of 24 OCI interviews done so far, 5CB's in LA (2) & NY (3). It's a bloody civil war out there.

Will report back after all the call back deadlines have passed. Meantime, will be looking into whether or not eating 1 meal a day is sustainable.

2L at TTT NYC school, top 15%, law journal. Fortunate to have a few offers in NY, all 1 V50 firm, 2 V40 firms. The question I am struggling with is, how to choose where to accept from the standpoint of minimizing the chances of being no-offered at the end of next summer. I keep going back and talking to these firms, and keep getting fed the same B.S. What questions can I ask these firms to elicit a more helpful answer about this?

T5 2L, who probably qualifies on the "socially inept" scale (not arrogant, just a little shy), but good grades, having trouble getting NY offers. My sense is people are still getting a few offers, but not as many, and we're struggling far more than we would have in the past. It's a bitch.

2L at TTT NYC school, top 15%, law journal. Fortunate to have a few offers in NY, 1 V50 firm, 2 V40 firms. The question I am struggling with is, how to choose where to accept from the standpoint of minimizing the chances of being no-offered at the end of next summer. I keep going back and talking to these firms, and keep getting fed the same B.S. What questions can I ask these firms to elicit a more helpful answer about this?

2L at TTT NYC school, top 15%, law journal. Fortunate to have a few offers in NY, 1 V50 firm, 2 V40 firms. The question I am struggling with is, how to choose where to accept from the standpoint of minimizing the chances of being no-offered at the end of next summer. I keep going back and talking to these firms, and keep getting fed the same B.S. What questions can I ask these firms to elicit a more helpful answer about this?

I am assuming HLS 2L is a Hofstra 2L because no real Harvard law student would only get 5 callbacks. Right, Elie?

DC is obviously slow right now. We have an election upcoming that will have an affect on what happens inside the beltway for the next 8 years.

co-sign 24. nervous T-10 1L needs to go. bring back JT.

GULC grads are obviously doing quite well. I have 234 offers from all V25 firms.

How are things shaping up at University of Montana?

2L at TTT school here, again (29, 30, 31- sorry, my computer is retarded, apparently).
On the "socially inept" note- I managed to talk (charm?) my way into callbacks (and in at least one case, an offer) at firms whose "hard GPA cut-off" I did not meet. I was also dinged by firms whose GPA cut-off was top 20%, and when I thought the interview went swimmingly. So I'm not sure what that says.

lighten up you guys. are all lawyers this irritable? i should remember that for my interviews.

-nervous T-10 1L

Top 40% at upper third-tier school. No journal, but moot court and SBA leadership position. VERY personable and EXTREMELY socially adept. GREAT interview skillz. Over 40 resumes mailed and only 1 interested response. Starting to think I might have to look outside V50.

Of course 3Ls aren't getting jobs, who needs them? 3Ls are either 2Ls who are whiners and don't realize the biglaw firm they're interviewing with is going to have the same things wrong with it (document review, long hours, demanding partners, etc) as the one they're trying to leave or were cold offered and why would you want to hire someone who stinks?

More importantly, in this market, hooray for these firms that aren't hiring 3Ls and are trying to give what billables they have to the juniors they already have and the incoming associates they had already made offers to as summers rather than dilute everyone's billables (and bonus) further.

32- I went to Hofstra.. I had 35 interviews, 14 callbacks and 8 offers. All from top 100 firms.... Suck it !

brutal for 3L's. T10 3L decent grades. 5 callbacks. 4 dings already. waiting for my last hope.

I've only been getting NY offers from satellite offices of firms HQ'd in other cities...

so now the question is: go to NY in a satellite or a bigger HQ with more options in a place like Atlanta?

Ahhhhh.

Nervous T-10 1L:

If I was to tell you that all lawyers are this irritable, would you drop out of law school and disappear?

If the answer is yes, then we are all this irritable and every attorney gets herpes within 5 months of passing the bar. These are just the facts.

I hope to God 39 is kidding.

39- in my (admittedly limited) experience, nobody gives a shit about SBA, and most people don't even give a shit about journals - it's grades, then personality. If I were you, I would apply to firms who are looking at top third of your school, and firms that look at top half to be safe.

39 - I love how you describe yourself as "VERY personable and EXTREMELY socially adept." I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but is VERY unlikely and EXTREMELY improbable that you will receive a V50 offer.

-V10 Associate

HLS students should be pissed as hell about the school's arrogant late timing for OCI. The economy had fully tanked by the time that HLS had its on-campus interviews. And the firms had already given many offers to students from other schools.

48 - you are right. Minor correction though, you should phrase that in the present tense. Economy is still tanking, unfortch.

45 -- Not kidding. 1 response and no offers from the 43 firms I applied to in the V50 (I'd be willing to go to almost any of those firms -- there are 7 that I'm not particularly impressed by) . It sucks for me b/c since I"m not top 10% I can't go through OCI with most of these firms at my school.

39 -- how are your dubious social skills relevant to a resume mailing?

How about a few follow-ups on some of this summer's no offer firms?

For example, DLA Piper-NY, a firm that was very slippery when contacted by ATL, STILL hasn't contacted any SAs who were placed on a wait-list. Obviously, DLA is hoping that these summers will find other jobs and take themselves out of the running (and it will not have to publish so many no offers on the NALP website).

I'm interested to see if DLA made good on its "generous" promise to give offers to "more than 2/3" of its summer associate class.

46 - I agree with almost all that you have said, except for the journal part. Firms really like to see journals because it is very similar to much of the work you will do as an associate - takes too much time when you have other things to be doing, is not extremely challenging, and can often be mindless.

11: HAHAHAH LOSER

HLS-ers -- Chillax. First week firms give fewer callbacks. Third week firms will be handing out callbacks a-plenty -- even in these troubling times in which we're living in.

I think 39 is a joke. At least I hope it is. Top 40% at, quite literally, a TTT, will not get you into a Top 50 firm. I mean COME ON!

Still no reporting about a certain avian event?

Haven't you heard? It was my understanding that everyone had heard.

50 - I think 45 stated "I hope you're kidding" not as a reaction to the lack of interest you have received. Instead, his reaction was to the fact you actually think you can get a V50 firm from a T3 school without a stellar resume.

39 -- how are your dubious social skills relevant to a resume mailing?

I wonder if firms like Weil (and others) issuing "things are great" emails are also being more generous with their callbacks and summer offers?

39/50 -

It's not your lack of success that I find surprising. It's your expectations. You are outside the top 1/3 at an "upper third-tier school"? WTF is an upper third-tier school? Third tier is not even ranked. And SBA? Who the fuck cares about SBA? You would not have gotten a vault job in a good economy.

-45

39 is hilarious. Way better than that nervous TTT-10 1L loser.

Illinois 2L. Everything still seems peachy with the Chicago market. Ample callbacks and offers all around.

Unless we're talking about Foley. Foley's got their heads in their asses on like 4 different levels.

Agree with 45. You need a STELLAR resume to get V50 outside of T1 or T2.

Perspective:

Im a 3L at UVA. working at a V20 firm next summer, in NY. I wasnt on LR, had very decent/middle of the pack grades. Nothing special. I had something like 20 callbacks last year, and about 7-8 offers of the 10-12 i went on. i wound up choosing between white/case, dewey, jones day and fried frank (and the firm i ultimately went to).

i bumped into this 2L i know- hes on LR, went to an Ivy League undergrad, is personable. hes making a similar choice: dewey, jones day, paul hastings. nothing against ANY of those firms, but come on - Law Review at a Top 10 school coming down to those three??

it is bad out there.

Figured I'd toss my stats out for comparisons:

T14 Law School, Top 30% of class but with a couple horrible grades that make you wonder if I was doing meth during the test, no journal.

Applied to just DC firms, 28 OGIs, 4 Callbacks, 4 Offers. All at satellite offices (which I don't care about) and nothing above v20 (again, not that it bothers me).

39
Also from an upper third tier, but top 15% with law review, barristers and a federal clerkship. Still having trouble. From resume mailings to ALL biglaw (over 250 mailings) in all major atlantic and midwest markets. No callbacks.
Might be because clerk hiring season is in spring, but I had better creds as a 3L (top 10%) and got only one interview.
Truth is that going to a third-tier was a bad choice. Upon seeing my LSAT, knowing full well that I was practicing 10 points higher, I look back and say I should have either got a masters and went to a better school or something because this hasn't worked out.
Wish I had better feedback.
The advice given to me was to start mid-size if possible, gain experience, build reputation and connections, then lateral into a biglaw spot. I will pass the same on to you.

39/50 here -- All of you uppity pretentious Ivy league wannabe aristocrats can suck it. There's no difference between mine and your educations. I know I'm going to have to work harder to get my foot in the door because I don't have the silver spoon OCI programs that YHS people have. But employers don't care about the name on your diploma, they care about who you are and what you can bring to the firm. I've tried to communicate this in my cover letters, which is why I'm certain something will pan out for me, even if it does take a little bit of time.

Good post, Elie. I’m a 2L, top 30 school, top 30%, LR with zero offers as of yet, so I’m not sure whether to be comforted or terrified that so many other students are feeling my pain.

I guess, what I’d like to know is what to do now? Any experienced attorneys out there have thoughts on what the next step is for 2L’s with no offers on the table?

Top 20% at Tier Three with LR and moot court. Only 1 OCI (DuaneMorris) that wasn't JAG. Mailed out over 100 resumes, no interviews there either. Our Top 10% aren't even getting offers. One offer in the entire 2L class, and she's numero uno.

Fucking DC, man! I'm T10 15% no journal, fairly personable, and I'm 3-6 Boston, 2-6 NY, 1-12 DC!

Anyone hear any recruiting/offer news about MoFo's California offices? Thanks!

Top 20% at Tier Three with LR and moot court. Only 1 OCI (DuaneMorris) that wasn't JAG. Mailed out over 100 resumes, no interviews there either. Our Top 10% aren't even getting offers. One offer in the entire 2L class, and she's numero uno.

let's see part two elie (good post btw). my 2L friends seem to be doing alright in the chicago market, still getting offers at around the median.

*prepares massive chicago mail merge*

-nervous T-10 1L

39: I do hope this is a joke. If not, you're holding a very weak hand, and I recommend folding. If you're building up debt, you epitomize the law student who's getting scammed. All of that money, and all you get is a handful of magic beans and some false hope.

Look regional. Not v100.

TTT-1L, get back to class. Your job next summer, as long as you have one, is meaningless. Come back in a year and freak out then.

39/50/68-
I hope you're right. There are plenty of mid-size firms in the city and smaller firms (even on Long Island) that have historically had connections with Hofstra. I would play up your alumni connection to anyone who's willing to listen.

San Francisco has been a bloodbath. Top 1/3 at a Top 5. Received multiple Vault 10 offers in New York. Not even a callback from MoFo or Latham in San Francisco.

so would it be better to take a satellite office position in a larger market like new york or to take a position at a firm's larger headquarters in a smaller market like atlanta?

Top 40% at Hofstra, no journal, no moot court, no SBA. 5 resumes sent out, no callbacks. May have to start looking outside V5.

Obama will restructure the summer associate hunting season to make it more "FAIR" for the middle of the road academic voters. It's not just about T14Street, it's about TTTStreet and it's about time that those at the bottom of the toilet received a fair chance at the top firms. Firms that recruit at T14 schools will simply pay a nominal fee (not a tax) to hire the best students while those firms that recruit out of the toilet will see their taxes decreased in the Obama nation.

ATL Obama Grass Roots Organizer,
Loyola 2L

Hogan or Covington?

stop relying on OCI and career services at your schools and put some effort forward. Call and email like crazy! check sites with job postings like Outlines.com and don't give up

HAHAHA 39/50 is getting agitated and just admitted why he is getting no attention. He is actually telling firms that it doesn't matter where he went to school.

Listen buddy, hiring is a market economy of some sort. If firms really thought your education was as good as mine they would hire you. They aren't hiring you. Thus, your education is deemed weaker.

Now, you may be far more intelligent than I am, but to a firm your school makes you a risk.

You f-ed up by going to a T3 school. Sorry buddy.

im a 3L wondering if there will be any 2Ls at my firms offer dinner next week.

65- You must be kidding too. There is a HUGE difference between Jones Day (best of the three) Paul Hastings (2nd best) and DEWEY. Dewey isn't even a top 50 firm. The other two are very well respected.

stop relying on OCI and career services at your schools and put some effort forward. Call and email like crazy! check sites with job postings like Outlines.com and don't give up

The top third at Northwestern is having no problems at all getting jobs at top DC firms. Most people in this group have a significant number of offers in hand, including plenty of success at W&C, Kirkland, Covington, Skadden, Wilmer, Latham, Hogan, Sidley, etc.

Sadly, NU isn't doing quite as well in other markets. Rumor has it that even top 5% + LR at NU isn't good enough this year to get an offer from the elite Bratislava offices.

83 -- I'm not TELLING them it don't matter; I'm telling them who I AM, which is what they care about. Firms hire people, not diplomas. I know my chances aren't great coming from a third tier school, but it is one of the top among all them, and also most of the 7 firms I didn't bother applying to were in the V15. I'm being realistic but optimistic. That's the only way to get through life.

77 - That doesn't seem out of line with normal recruiting. Even in very good years, top 1/3 at a Top 5 is by no means guaranteed a callback at MoFo or Latham SF. They are very selective offices of generally selective firms.

Any other T14-ers headed to regional firms after this season? I have offers in DC, but this round of blood baths and desperation has proven to be most distasteful. Fly over country for me!

79, don't be a dick. There's no call for it. In the end, especially when the economy rebounds, intelligent and hard-working lawyers will succeed at finding and thriving in rewarding (financially, at least) law firm jobs.

39/50/68:

Your education is the same as ours. Largely true. However, your marketability is not. Law firms don't hire degrees, they hire intelligences. The top schools aren't marketable by virtue of the education they provide, but by the quality of students that they accept and graduate.

You're at a TTT and you're only mustering top 40? If you were vault material, you would be excelling at that school, not treading water. There's a reason why only the top 10% get to do OCI at TTTs: 90% of TTT students are unfit for biglaw, and are more suited to practicing rural family law or be a small town PD. That's you.

You had your chance to prove yourself as a candidate last year, and you failed miserably, pulling average grades at a weak school. Maybe you'll be a good lawyer, but there's no reason for a Vault firm to assume you will and make the investment in you. They'd rather go with a sure bet.

When did this blog start sucking so hard? I take a little hiatus and come back to THIS?!

88 - who are you?

no problem getting callbacks and offers at WILDMAN HARROLD

39/50 - being optimistic is fine, but realize the truth here: firms hire diplomas as long as the person with that diploma isn't a d-bag. Personality is the final metric, stop treating it like the first thing they care about.

This is all simple logic: firms want to make money from clients who want to see T10 firms next to the associates' names. Given the choice, a large firm will take a T10 student who is not a complete ass over you even if you are the nicest person in the world.

I worked in Wilmington, DE my 1L summer and I realized something there. If you are a smart lawyer from a decent school you can make over 1MM a year as a partner there. The work is tough and really interesting. Give it a look.

Houston's doing great.

94 -- I'm your future managing partner.

72: I had a MoFo callback but no offer

2L top 10% NY market TTT. Those in top 15%-20% getting offers from V50 (including some V5) and big regional firms. Everyone else seems to be out of luck.

no problem getting callbacks and offers at WILDMAN HARROLD

Hogan or Covington?

88/39
This is 67, again. Firms do care about people. But first, to be realistic, your resume has to get past the initial reviewer's desk. Not being an insider, I don't know if that is a lower-level associate on the recruiting committee or some non-lawyer on a screening committee. However, the resume does have to get past somebody, and because biglaw firms received so many resumes, they have to have useful screening mechanisms. A cover letter is not one of them. GPA, Rank, School, Extracurriculars, Honors--those are the screening tools. Then it comes down to pre-screening, which weeds out people completely devoid of likeable personality traits. Then it comes to callbacks, most of which come directly from OCI follow-ups. So, those of us at third-tier schools are competing for very few interview slots, let alone SA or entry-level positions. The most intelligible and vivid self-advocate cannot, in most cases, overcome those odds.
In short, re-read my post and others who suggest to go mid-size (or regional), then try to lateral in to biglaw later.
As I said in my initial post, I wish there were better news I could offer, but that's the reality of the market.

@85 - What the hell are you talking about? Dewey is V50.

hell, i got 8 rejections yesterday! one of them was wildman harrold, but i had hopes for the others. i've taken it upon myself to send out 20 resumes/transcripts/covers each week. no luck yet. i'm top 1/3 at a school in the 20-30 range, journal, but no law review, went right in after undergrad.

SCREW ALL YOU GUYS! JUST GOT 2 CALLBACKS AT V17 FIRMS IN THE PAST 20 MINUTES! THAT'S KARMA.

--34/50/68

Look, I went to a T4 school. I graduated in the Top 3%. That was largely due to the fact that everyone else was a fucking idiot, but also, I studied my balls off. I also did extra curriculars like Moot Court and LR. I am one of the lucky few- maybe 7% of my graduating class to have a job---maybe only 2% are in BigLaw. Grades are everything, and networking like a horse is important also. I don't want to hear any of you TT bitching. You are where you have to be to get a good job. Act like a grown up and kill it in school. Otherwise, you're wasted talent. We in the TTTT are coming out of school and want to tear heads off of our opposing counsel. We came out with a hunger to prove ourselves. Now you TT students need to prove yourself. Its your choice as to whether you want to cry about it or asolutely Kill It out there.

While I'm sure 99% of you don't care, the market in Florida is HORRIBLE. Many firms cutting their summer positions in half or worse. Was it this bad in the 90's?

39: I second 103's lateraling comment. That's your route into biglaw.

Well, your first route would've been to be good enough to get into a good school. That didn't happen. Your second route would've been to be a good law student at the school you got into. Didn't happen either. If, despite those, you're still convinced that you're biglaw material, and you demonstrate this as a young lawyer, you can lateral your way in. If you cannot demonstrate that, then you are not fit for biglaw. Wanting biglaw and being bubbly doesn't mean getting it. You've gotta, yknow, show some promise too.

#87 - NU is having "plenty of success" at W&C?? They only give offers to like 2-3 people per school. How is that "plenty"? Or is W&C giving out offers like candy at the esteemed Northwestern?

NU troll.

the jobs in the bay area are in silicon valley, not san francisco. only mofo and kirkland do corporate work there anymore. callbacks and offers aplenty in silicon valley.

OK I have to get back to work . This has been a lot of fun. The prize for the best response goes to this guy:

#79 -- "Top 40% at Hofstra, no journal, no moot court, no SBA. 5 resumes sent out, no callbacks. May have to start looking outside V5."

HAHAHA! Laughed my ass off.

Second place goes to everyone who honestly believed that anyone in the top 40% at a "top" third-tier school would be looking for a V50 job. I laughed my ass off at you guys too.

And, 94: I'm Batman.

-- 34/50/68

GULC top third, offers at 2 V10s and one of the "better" DC lit shops, along with a few other callbacks I haven't pursued.
GULC RULES!

I don't think anyone on this board realizes how bad this downturn will get. At this point, a depression -- yes, a fucking depression -- is inevitable. There will be massive layoffs within the next 6 months, including a lot of revoked offers for current 3L's. The firms have no choice -- the work simply isn't there.

The golden days are over. In two years, anyone with a job will be lucky as hell. Some of us will end up on the streets; I wish I was joking.

BTW, I know people who are very high up in the corporate food chain, and they confirm my beliefs. There will be no recovery for at least 5+ years.

T14 3L. Summer offer in NYC but looking for bay area. last year 14 callbacks on 20 interviews. 100% offers on callbacks (mostly bay area), middling grades but journal. This year one of those firms implied offer still stood in September, when i called recently to take them up- no offer. no other firms replied. just glad to have offer from last year.

#39: now you resort to lying to make yourself feel better. I'm glad we've all made you feel that bad about yourself, because that's really what we set out to do, I think: lower your expectations.

I'm also skeptical because you call these callbacks, even though they aren't from OCI. This suggests you have not received any callbacks, as you don't even know what to call them. They're called interviews.

To all of you "third tier" students worried about landing a V100 job - sure the pay is way, way better there, but at least you have better job security at a regional firm. Just ask former Heller and Broebeck associates.

T25, top 3%, LR, 15 interviews, 5 callbacks, 1 v50 offer. I must have interviewed very poorly. I can't help but think in a better market my options would have been significantly more attractive.

#99 - Do you mind saying which office? I've been waiting on several of them with weeks of radio silence...

2L at CA low T2 school. Top 5%, LR. 35 initial interviews with NY, DC, Chicago, SF and LA firms. 12 callbacks in all cities, turned down many more, had 5 offers in NY, SF, LA and DC all V50, some V10. I really think the reason I was able to do that was because I want to go into pat lit. Its stupid for someone interviewing to insist on wanting to do M&A - they are much less likely to hire you when they have no work for you in an area. Make yourself valuable.
You can come from a not-so-good school and make it at a V50 NY firm - but you HAVE to have the credentials (grades mainly). And be proactive, dont wait for them to come to you.

112: Gotham = TTT

I don't think anyone on this board realizes how bad this downturn will get. At this point, a depression -- yes, a fucking depression -- is inevitable. There will be massive layoffs within the next 6 months, including a lot of revoked offers for current 3L's. The firms have no choice -- the work simply isn't there.

The golden days are over. In two years, anyone with a job will be lucky as hell. Some of us will end up on the streets; I wish I was joking.

BTW, I know people who are very high up in the corporate food chain, and they confirm my beliefs. There will be no recovery for at least 5+ years.

Of course 3Ls aren't getting jobs, who needs them? 3Ls are either 2Ls who are whiners and don't realize the biglaw firm they're interviewing with is going to have the same things wrong with it (document review, long hours, demanding partners, etc) as the one they're trying to leave or were cold offered and why would you want to hire someone who stinks?

More importantly, in this market, hooray for these firms that aren't hiring 3Ls and are trying to give what billables they have to the juniors they already have and the incoming associates they had already made offers to as summers rather than dilute everyone's billables (and bonus) further.

Not a bad OCI season for your truly and most of my friends. Definitely less callbacks and offers all around but I landed offers from some of my top choices, including V10 firms.

There was a big difference for some firms after the Lehman meltdown.

I'm slightly below the median at a T10. Secondary journal. WASP male. Mediocre job experience. No graduate degrees.

I had >60% callback rate from screening interviews. I went on only the 6 best callbacks I got, which were all V20 firms school that my GPA. I got 4 offers.

How terrible does your personality have to be to not get an offer coming out of a top school? All of my friends, who are just normal people, have plenty of job offers. You T10 law students who are struggling need to try doing something other than reading casebooks to develop some social skills.

I don't think anyone on this board realizes how bad this downturn will get. At this point, a depression -- yes, a fucking depression -- is inevitable. There will be massive layoffs within the next 6 months, including a lot of revoked offers for current 3L's. The firms have no choice -- the work simply isn't there.

The golden days are over. In two years, anyone with a job will be lucky as hell. Some of us will end up on the streets; I wish I was joking.

BTW, I know people who are very high up in the corporate food chain, and they confirm my beliefs. There will be no recovery for at least 5+ years.

114- I agree: "I don't think anyone on this board realizes how bad this downturn will get. " That includes you. Nobody knows whether this will become a depression or whether it will be a recession that lasts for a year or two. If you knew for sure, you would have better things to do than posting on a law firm discussion website.

#99 - Do you mind saying which office? I've been waiting on several of them with weeks of radio silence...

Top 20% at Tier Three with LR and moot court. Only 1 OCI (DuaneMorris) that wasn't JAG. Mailed out over 100 resumes, no interviews there either. Our Top 10% aren't even getting offers. One offer in the entire 2L class, and she's numero uno.

Top 5% at 4T, law review, published, yadda yadda. 5 OCI bids, 5 interviews, 1 callback.

Either the economy sucks in this secondary market, or it's time to get a doctor working on that body odor problem.

What will be the long-term impact of this bad job market? An increase in ambulance chasing/plaintiff-side law?

Wait, 125, you got a total of 4 offers out of about 15 (or so) interviews, and you think this is a good thing?! I mean, good for you and all (my numbers are similar coming out of a T14, not a T10, although my rank is higher), but this is pathetic compared to historic performance of the previous classes!

102 - what city?

102 - what city?

102 - what city?

133-
Both DC.
-102

Will the debate tonight be the final nail in McSame's coffin?

-nervous T-10 Fed Soc Troll

TT school. At 20%, 2ndary journal, moot court. ~23 screening interviews, 16 call backs. Of 7 went on, 3 offers. Can't complain.

102 - what city?

114,122,126--How bad is the down turn? BTW how high up are they?

The market is shitty right now.... even if you get a summer offer, who is to say that you will have it after graduation, hell who is to say you will get an offer after the summer. There may be no jobs to give. ,If worse comes to worse, focus on passing the bar and getting temp work... Its not great, but there will be a lot of it to go around with all the lawsuits resulting from the financial crisis. You can make over 120k a year. Think that sucks ? Not having a job with 150k in law school debt sucks even harder.

I went to law school because I had no other plan at the time-- easy way to get a high-paying job when you didn't really take college seriously. I know I'm not the only one in this camp. I was lucky enough to get my associate gig a few years ago before the market meltdown, but I still see this "tough recruiting season" as another sign that there are too many lawyers out there right now. And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't more and more people going to law school every year? Maybe it's time we encourage our friends and younger siblings and whoever else to start looking into engineering, medicine, entrepreneurship, finance (in a few years), teaching, writing, etc.

i suggest working during law school as a legal intern somewhere. establish contacts with business people and the internal counsel. you have no idea how much pull a client can have vis a vis who its outside counsel hires. trust me, it works.

it is people who do the hiring. try to bypass the drones in the firms' recruiting depts and try to get someone to send your res directly to a partner.

Brooklyn Law. Top 10% LR.

30 OCI Screening. 15 Callbacks offers. Went to about 7 callbacks before canceling the rest. I was tired of the whole process. 3 offers out of the 7 callbacks was enough for me (1 firm never responded).

Will be heading to a V10 firm next summer.

Most people in the top 15% seem to have at least one good offer that they will seriously consider. Definitely different and down from previous years but people are still getting offers.

102 - tough call both good. I heard HH is getting very picky

I think the overall point from the postings is that if you are in the top of your class at a decent school you will do fine. That said, don't go to law school if you arent prepared to work really hard and be honest about your capabilities.

114/122/126
Looks like all of us had better learn second languages then and move to Abu Dhabi or Hong Kong.

Around median at NU, 3 offers so far (3 pending) out of 9 callbacks from 30 screeners. SF has been fairly rough; Palo Alto has been only slightly better on me.

110 = John Marshall 2L

Signed,

NU Grad w/ job

111: ORLY?

-corp. associate in SF (not at KE or MoFo)

We are all so very fucked.

I'll second 43's sense of NY.

T10 2L around 50% mark in class; can be pretty social w/o coming off as a 'frat-boy'; Did 9 callbacks in NY, 4 offers (all from firms HQ'ed in other cities--even though their NY offices are about as large as the HQ). Kinda odd...I wonder if the NY HQ'ed firms are all cutting way back on SA classes. Maybe b/c they're closest to the financial crisis?

All the "don't freak out" (usually the very first sign you should be freaking out) rumors/emails on ATL lately seem to be coming from NYC HQ'ed firms.

2L at a Midwest T35, 40, whatever (do people just put T and then the actual number where their school sits in the rankings? Feels that way). Top 5%, Law Review. 13/15 callbacks in NYC, 2 V5 and 4 V12. 1/3 callbacks in DC.

Early OCI and job fairs were good to my school.

Could someone at a law firm explain to me why some firms don't give decisions within a week? I pretty much assume if I don't hear back within a week it's a ding, but I've actually had an offer come-in as much as two weeks after the callback. Is it like some sort of wait-listing process? Or do some firms just not have their recruiting shit together?

What's noticeable is not that firms are scaling back, its that this year's crop of 2Ls are inept, self-entitled and lazy. The fundamentals of our economy and the profession are strong, the same can't be said for the fundamentals of the graduation class of 2010.

What's noticeable is not that firms are scaling back, its that this year's crop of 2Ls are inept, self-entitled and lazy. The fundamentals of our economy and the profession are strong, the same can't be said for the fundamentals of the graduation class of 2010.

154,

Believe it or not, you are not the firm's top and only priority. Just because they were all enthusiastic about interviewing you does not mean that they have more pressing client issues.

CCN, ~15%, secondary journal. 17 callbacks for 26 interviews. Went on 7, got three offers, two of them V5.

I know of four people at my school who struck out through EIP -- two who didn't get any callbacks, two who went 0 for whatever on the callbacks they did get. All four were below median, but all cleared a 3.0.

Broadly, the top of the class seems to have it a bit tougher than they might have otherwise, but things are mostly fine. Bottom of the class is hosed.

154, generally recruiting 2Ls is considered far more pressing than servicing clients. Nothing is more valued within the halls of biglaw than untrained FBUs who will soon become a drain on the bottom line.

What that says, really, is that you are a marginal candidate who is thrown into an increasingly large maybe pile.

154 - because there is something called a hiring committee which makes the ultimate decision on whether to extend an offer. Hiring committees consist of practicing attorneys who cant meet every week just to decide whether you (154) are so damn special that you warrant an immediate decision.
I HATE YOU

154,

Sometimes firms put callbacks into a "maybe" pile. They scheduled 2 dozen callbacks for 10 spots, and not everybody instantly hits one side or the other. They'll fill 5 with obvious candidates, then another 10 obviously fail. For the remaining 9, they want to wait and see all of them before deciding. You're probably in the middle, but this could really go either way. They could be saying "154 looks great, but just to be sure, let's check out Kevin and Hank before we make the call. Kevin and Hank might surprise us." Or t hey could be saying "154 was pretty weak, but I don't have high hopes for Kevin and Hank, either."

Chin up

AU WCL, Top 10%, LR, 18 OCI, 15 Callbacks, 8 Offers - 3 V5! 6 of 8 offers are in DC, the remaining 2 in NY.

Most people I know are getting offers. Not as many as I am, but at least 1 or 2. Of my immediate circle of friends only 2 have yet to receive an offer.

Heard from many folks who were Top 25% at Fordham and they did great - 20-30 callbacks, 5-10 offers (after some callbacks cancelled by the student), all V30 or better, most V20-V1. I was top 33% myself and got a V20s firm, but that was mostly luck and a resume that fit the firm's environment well. In previous years top 33% at Fordham was almost guaranteed a V80 or better firm, but now many of us are struggling. Median-range at Fordham used to have hopes at Vault but now that's simply not happening. The economy is killing us.

Many friends of mine at Brooklyn Law who are top 33% are gettling absolutely nothing.

A personable top 50% at Cardozo has already given up hope.

154, my gf had gone on a callback 3 weeks ago and heard nothing. Just got called with an offer. She was clearly in the maybe pile, but made it out okay. So, yeah it may suck that you weren't the immediate "obvious 5," but you're now better off than the 10 def. no's and the rest in the maybe pile you beat out.

19-

Guessing you go to a T3 school because, even tho you were right about Michigan, Penn is not a state school.

love,

Entitled Penn 2L with V10 summer gig

We'll all be living in Hoovervilles (or Bushvilles) in a few years. Enjoy heating while you can, folks!

157,

So your saying your firm just doesn't have it's shit together? That's fine. Lawyers are busy and the douchey ones constantly like to remind people how busy they are, but it's not like recruiting season is some unexpected event. Seems like a well-managed firm should usually be able to make a decision within a week.

anyone know how latham is doing right now?

Bankruptcy Clerk...T18, median Will apply to any market.

Any hope of a job starting next October?

things are just fine at texas. most of my friends (including plenty outside top 1/3rd) are getting serious looks at the big boys in houston and dallas.

Current law students were all taking the LSATs and applying when the legal market was hot, salaries were rising, summer classes were increasing, deals and real estate were hot, and ediscovery was getting out of control and needed more and more associates. During those 5 or so years, firms needed warm bodies to handle the work and would dip far into classes and hire students from TTT schools. But it wasn't all that long ago before that that even top graduates from T14-30 schools struggled for biglaw jobs. The market has really only been hot like this for a couple years and misled incoming law students into thinking getting into biglaw was easier.

SF is brutal. Top half at a T6, got a handful of callbacks but no offers there.

165,

If Penn is not a state school, then why is it called Penn STATE?

Second all the comments on SF. Top 5% at a T15, 4 callbacks, 1 offer. Did much better on Boston (3/3), DC (2/3).

158 obviously goes to CLS since it's the only CCN that calls their OCI program EIP. It's unsettling to know that some CLS people who did their OCIs well over a month ago are still without jobs.

173 - Agreed.

Its my personal opinion that the University of Penn State is the finest public institution in the country; perhaps the world.

110-

Guys in my high school used to get W&C offers all the time. It was no big deal.

177 - Dude who wears women’s undergarments.

175,

Eh, fair enough. You got me. And yes, very unsettling.

-158

Bankruptcy clerkship is looking better and better

Of course Texas is hiring from Texas.

-

The Chicago market is certainly not fine if you are not 40%+ T10 or 20%+ at a T25. Hiring is contracted, and it's coming right out of the margins.

57, I have heard...the bird is the word.

T14 Top 5%, Law Review, 1L summer firm job in Chi, from DC. Several call backs in DC. Yet to get an offer. Life sucks.

58, my bad. I have heard...the bird is the word.

How is the market in Chicago? Have people been successful getting jobs there?

If you're a junior associate in a biglaw firm in a major market, even if you're only billing 1600 a year you're still covering your salary and expenses and giving the firm some profit. If a firm doesn't have 1600 hours for each of its juniors than that firm should be cutting its summer program and any 3L hiring. It's the third years and more senior that are really in trouble in a slow down....

talk about Chicago is misleading. maybe harvard has offers, but at my T14 offers definitely not being handed out like candy below top quarter

median at UVA, 28 OCI, 5 callbacks [4 DC, 1 NY], no offers yet

You've gotta hope as a 2L with a job that these firms know how badly things will be next Summer and are hiring accordingly. I want an offer, damn it, not a no-offer. I want my firm to not hire so many of my colleagues.

yeah, I am at a T10 school and people in the bottom 20% of the class have had trouble getting jobs at Sidley, Kirkland, Winston, Latham.

don't worry, law students. the fundamentals of our economy are strong. i'm sure you'll all find good jobs soon.

169
Bankruptcy clerk here, too. I hope the restructuring departments will hire from our pool instead of just moving their lower-level associates from other departments. If not, we still might be screwed. Plenty of bankruptcy boutiques out there, though.

What's an OCI and how do I get one?

- nervous T-10 1L

167 --

So your [you mean "you're"] saying your firm just doesn't have it's [you mean "its"] shit together?

Might help to have decent grammar.

167, in addition your bad grammar as pointed out by 194, you are also an arrogant prick who probably is in the no pile awaiting ding letters because you can't hide arrogance that deep.

You have no idea what happens inside firms. Yes, hiring season is not unexpected, but everybody making the decisions (i.e. the hiring partners) are also still billing ridiculous hours. You are not their only priority. If you can't wait a few weeks, you don't have the patience required of an SA or young associate.

192...Thats my hope as well.

Are you in a big market?

I would think that it might be beneficial for a firm to hire a Bankruptcy Clerk to immediately make a contribution to the work instead of having to train a lower level associate (like a year 1 or 2).

If you have seen Bankruptcy Stuff before...it can be ass backwards.

167:

You're an idiot. Lets see...I'm in the office by 7, work until 7, bill, bill, bill; go home to see wife; work out; eat; sleep; up next day and back at it. Work on weekends and sometime in between attempt to wedge something somewhat enjoyable (other than work and wife) into the 7 days in each week.

Do you think I honestly give two sh*ts whether you think my management of the summer program meets your expectations. Seriously, go f yourself; you're on my time; and you will (and you know it) drop on your knees when I tell you to...remember d-bag, I've got the job you want.

Oh, and by the way, if you were worth two sh*ts you would get a call w/in a week...idiot.

Sincerely,

The one thing in your life standing between a B'mer and a honda...

2L at U. Penn., middle of the class, only looking in NYC, 31 OCIs, 12 callbacks, took 8, so far 7 offers and haven't heard from the last. Granted, I was not looking at V20 firms because I don't want to spend every night this summer on a boat cruise or at some other forced social event, but I am still pretty happy about my stats. Go Penn!

189 -

No one knows how bad this is going to be. The working assumption should be 1980-82 recession. And this has onset extremely quickly, happening in the middle of callback scheduling and selection.

If the firm was already planning reduced summer class, they are more likely to be able to offer everyone than if they were not. That doesn't mean they will - you simply aren't worried about your recruiting brand name in the sort of systemic downturn we are looking at here. Law students aren't going to be "punishing" anyone in the Fall of 2009.

Bratty law students need to keep in mind that the extreme compensation - and frantic employment of anyone with a pulse - spike of the last five years was driven by a work environment that no longer exists. Firms notoriously hate to deflate bubbles, but this one is going to give them no choice.

A normal economy, nevermind a deleveraged economy, simply does not support 300 firms acting like they are Cravath and either paying NY market to associates or "market" that is COL-adjusted to be significantly greater than NY.

You also no longer have investment banks and hedge funds as competition for "talent." on any meaningful scale. Wall Street investment banking is dead. Gone. Never coming back. The Big 5 all bit the dust in one way or another. Hedge funds are still in the process of blowing up, but you should expect at least a 30% contraction in that bloated industry on top of the usual churn. And strict regulations are coming for them, which will basically end that buisness model.

It's entirely possible firms will take this opportunity to go after bloated summer associate programs - meaning the program itself, not a particular class. It's a stupid luxury that has no peer in any other industry. A severe recession is not only the sort of thing that starts firms thinking about how to go about this, it provides plenty of cover.

Again, where, exactly, are the students in Fall 2009 OCI going to go?

Are 3Ls with firm offers in hand in any danger of rescinded offers before they even begin their first day???

200 -- I would say this is a very real possibility, even likely, if things don't improve dramatically over the next 6 months.

There just isn't enough work to go around, and last summer most firms over-hired big time. So yes, I think any firms will rescind offers over the next year.

T25, top 20%, LR, got 4 callbacks out of 18 OCI interviews, got two offers from those callbacks. Accepted offer from a V50 firm.

I don't think people in the Pacific Northwest actually read this blog but does anyone have any insight into how Seattle and Portland are fairing?

-Stoned T14 2L

(Seriously though.)

if you're trying to work at a big firm in miami, you're a moron to begin with. small firms rule down here (although W&C and KL have ridiculously nice offices for their inept associates and partners).

Anybody know how Skadden and O'Melveny Los Angeles are doing. Which one is a safer bet as far as getting an offer after the summer?

204, don't the small firms pay a whole lot less?

All this talk of a weak economy is nonsense. I am a couple of months into my first semester and V10 firms are already contacting me.

-Confident Hofstra 1L

197- Sounds like you're a sucker. Or a loser. Your pick! But at least you drive a sweet car, right?

Calling troll on 207.

To Everyone who has posted about the woes of attending a "Top (insert tier)" school and have even One offer in hand at press time -

Be Thankful. There are a great deal of us out here that are not so fortunate.

As a 2L in the top 7% (LR, Moot Court, SBA) of my class at a T4 school, things are much worse "down here" than you can fathom. through OCI I have had only 11 screening interviews, 6 callbacks, and no offers thus far.

I'm pragmatic. I don't expect to land a V100 job this summer, but I am hopeful that I can. I understand that most firms have eliminated or extensively cut back on their program and may not feel a need to hire anything but "safe bets" for the next couple of years.

However, those of you that have complained or criticized others for only having received offers in the single digits, take a moment to evaluate your perspective. Be happy that anyone on your list of preferred employers thinks you are qualified to have them waste time and resources on you for the next few years, so you can eventually leave for another firm after realizing that the work you're doing isn't what you thought you signed up for.

Remember that some of us are fighting a much tougher uphill battle, please, before you complain about how tough you have it.

210: What did you expect when you chose to go to that school? Why should anyone feel sorry for you?

185- Chicago market sucks. Unless you go to HLS, you are in trouble. Almost all firms in Chicago are drastically cutting their summer class size. Good luck.

T20, 2L. Accepted offer at V15 firm in NY. Said they were making at least as many offers as last year because they did not have as many people as they wanted last summer.

211 - i'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for me. I went to the school that was willing to take a chance on me under my own circumstances (mediocre UG GPA, halfway decent LSAT, focused law school Search in a specific region of the country). The point I want to make is that people at top schools should not feel like they are operating in a vacuum, and that things could be much more difficult.

205: Skadden for sure. There is no doubt.

That said, sympathy is always nice. Hahaha.

-210

Chicago markets are great; I have offers at Kirkland, Sidley, Winston, Skadden Chicago----- In bottom half of class, no LR or MC.

Everyone should just be glad they're not in business school.

T25 2L, top 25%, no journal....OCI for 12 NY firms and 8 DC firms... 5 NY Callbacks, 2 NY offers in the Vault 70-80... I struck out in DC. My story is not at all uncommon at my school, DC brutalized my class...

why go to a crappy law school? Total waste of money and time

Important question for 2L: Is there a correlation between high vault rankings and economic stability?

Safer market economically: DC or Chicago?

Why is no one applying for Smithsonian positions?!?

The National Air & Space Museum is an M1 (c/f Vault rankings).

DC's horrible callback and offer rate is putting pressure on other markets.

T-30, top 40%. I knew I didn't have the grades, so I made it abundantly clear that I am gay (although this is a lie). 2 offers from V10 firms. Suck it.

T 50 school-- top 10%, Moot Court, Trial Ad. not too socially inept (i think). Looking for CA and Salt Lake City. 4 callbacks in SLC, none in CA. One offer. I'm on the good end of my school. Everyone out here is getting killed, even solid resumes, and from a school with a high post-grad employment rating. Good luck everyone. BTW, DC and NY were both good to my school, apparently. Chicago and CA were a little tougher.

225, i should have given that a shot. That does take every female at your firm out of the running for you. Good luck with that one.

T14 2L, top 1/3, secondary journal, only looking in DC. Did 32 screening interviews, 17 callbacks. I did 9 of the callbacks and got 5 offers. I'm happy.

227-Wrong. I never actually said I was gay. And the firm, of course, cannot ask. I just put a lot of GLBT stuff on my resume, talked with my hands a lot, and wore a pink tie. Trust me, they thought I was gay.

225

T10, 35 OCIs, 3 callbacks, 3 offers.

I'm top 1/4 w/ journal at a T1 in CA, had 20+ screenings, 4 callbacks, 3 dings, 1 offer. Not too hot of a market.

do firms in hong kong hire 1L sa's?

*reformats resume*

-nervous T-10 1L

GULC to 20 percent employment!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GULC should start printing bankruptcy petitions on the back of its diplomas. Very efficient.

223 must have a huge ego with little to back it up, probably from GULC. The Smithsonian's National Portrait Gallery is M1--NAAS is very TTT. NPG has substance over form. A Boeing jet cannot compete with the Lansdowne portrait.

Wow, 225. If that's true, you are my idol.

218 - very good point.

Maybe it's time to reconsider whether V50 or V100 is all it's cracked up to be. What is the justification for suffering through the BigLaw experience?

Payment? You can get paid a little less in a nice market with better quality of life.

Complexity of work? I find it funny that, after only one year of law school, people can tell a difference between monolithic mega-firms based on legal issues you've neither studied nor ever witness within the first five years of employment.

Bottom line, this recruiting season, if you don't have an offer yet, then things are just as bad for you as they are for the guy at UPenn State, TTTT or business school.

It's good that so many people on these blogs want to get these "BigLaw" jobs so badly... I imagine they might not be so tolerable if you weren't. Complaints aside, these firms are good places to work, but there are others outside V100. Who here thought about going to law school and said... "hey, this is going to be a waste if I don't end up at Skadden," other than nervous T-10 1L? Get over yourselves.

Skadden=punishment for median GULCers

T10, LR, top 15%, 24 OCIs 18 Call Backs, went on 8, 6 offers including 2 V5. Have been seeing pleanty of people on seondary journals etc. at offer dinners for good firms though.

238 works at a TTT firm

208:

197 here...nah, car sucks, would much rather pay off my s-loans, and was just f'ing with 167, the d-bag that he/she is. Bottom line is that if he/she didn't hear back, move on, find an f'ing job and stop whining. Hiring p'ners are hiring p'ners b/c they can't cut it as real lawyers, can't make it rain, etc. They're relatively unorganized losers that spend their days trolling for associates to the work that they can't. Regardless, nobody owes 167 anything and whining about it on some half assed website is just a way to make him/herself feel better.

Also, big firm litigators and deal makers can smell a whiner like that a mile away...hence the non-response. Loser probably sits by the phone for a month every time some girl in a bar says hello...

You wanna work in a big firm, get used to getting kicked in the balls or the baby maker constantly; put on a cup and stop your snifflin'.

Top third at T10, MC, no LR, 25 screening interviews at OCI, 3 call backs, no offers.

Awesome.

206
A lot of small firms in Miami and Coral Gables still start 6 figures. A lot of very successful boutiques with top notch clients.

Anyone heard from Ropes DC, or Ropes in general? I know a bunch of people who had callbacks and have been waiting several weeks now, without a rejection or an offer.

heard ropes was getting great returns and slowed down their offers to keep from overloading.

They told me that a GULC degree was the ticket to biglaw. They also told me the Dow would hit 20,000 by the end of 2008.

T25, 18%, no LR. lookin in NY. 19 OCIs, 14 call-backs, i went on 9. got 3 offers, 1 V15, 1 V30 and 1 V60. BUT, 3 rejections- all from V80 firms. Huh?? waiting to hear from the remaining 3. I hear I'm doing better than my classmates though.

Anybody participate in the Weil interview day on Sept. 27? Hear back yet?

T10, 30%, no LR but many other extracurriculars, 18 screening interviews, 11 callbacks, 5 offers (V80 or higher) 2 rejections

Ropes DC took over 2 weeks to get back to me with an offer. Are they any good in DC?

Experience and anecdotes suggest DC Is extremely rough this year - disproportionately rough, even when taking into account the direction of the economy in the last month. Not sure if it's some sort of double whammy - election year + economic downturn - or what, but DC is really harsh.

any thoughts on steptoe vs. ropes vs. king&spalding vs. weil vs. MWE vs. wiley rein (all in DC)???

I fought the GULC and the GULC won.

Vandy 2L/3.8+/LR
16 on-campus interviews
12 callbacks
6 callback interviews accepted
5 post-callback offers
Will be working in Chicago next summer for a V30 law firm.

Agree with 52- How about a few follow-ups on some of this summer's no offer firms? or firms that STILL haven't told all SAs if they have an offer yet?

I know Foley still hasn't told some summers one way or the other...

Agree with 52- How about a few follow-ups on some of this summer's no offer firms? or firms that STILL haven't told all SAs if they have an offer yet?

I know Foley still hasn't told some summers one way or the other...

Will Congress pass a GULC bailout package?

I'm a Chicago 1L and I don't know how seriously to take this website and hearsay. I've spoken to 2Ls who say that they're fine, but they might have excellent grades. I haven't met anyone who's complained about the lack of offers, yet I doubt they would be quick to broadcast their employment situation in that case.

I'm probably not working as hard as I should be, but I don't know what to do beyond reading the cases, not briefing them, and paying attention in class. It's frustrating. Does anyone have any advice for me?

Advice for 259. Relax and don't be such a douche.

259 - Drop out while you still can.

260: thanks, but no thanks. Don't worry. I'm quite relaxed.

Chicago is a rancid TTT in decline

T20/3.8+/LR -- only looking in D.C.
13 on-campus interviews
10 callback offers (plus 5 non-OCI callback offers)
8 callback offers accepted
4 offers -- will be working for a V20 firm in D.C.

Wow a 3.8 at Vandy + Law Review can only get a V30 in Chicago? Thoroughly TTT.

@265

Only looking in Chicago, fool.

266 - Understood, but law review + a 3.8 at Vandy couldn't get you a job at Kirkland, Sidley, Skadden, or Latham? Mayer Brown is a fine firm, but come on, you should be cleaning up. You seem to be bragging, and I'm surprised because even bottom half types at CCN get jobs that you seemingly could/did not.

267 - not bragging in the least. Got dinged by Kirkland and Sidley. Canceled callbacks with MB and Skadden.

T6, medianish grades, no journal. 20 interviews, 8 callbacks, 6 offers, accepted V10.

Dont know what all the hype is about

In all seriousness, GULC has gotten me 10 offers and more callbacks than I could possibly have done, all V50. I'm down to picking between two V25. I still don't understand the GULC hate on this website.

206 - yes, but you'll get a hell of a lot more experience immediately.

problem with most lawyers is that they're worried about what they make today and not what they'll make when they're 40 and going forward. 225k a year plus a 40k bonus as a midlevel is nice, but if your firm has no intention of making you a partner, helping you develop your own book or giving you the skills necessary to survive on your own, then frankly, you have no chance of hitting the 6, 7, 800k a year in compensation level later down the road.

-ex big firm guy who saw the light (after two years of biglaw)

270: it's an internet meme, so you can be confident that 99% of the people who reference it are only doing so because it's an internet meme. Do you really need to worry about the opinions of people who anonymously reference memes over and over online in order to win the acknowledgment of other anonymous people?

Re: Ropes
Their SF office offered me >2 weeks after the callback. Good luck.

213- you are talking about sidley correct?

HLS OCI for the SF market is a disaster right now. I know of a couple people who are killing it but I feel insanely lucky to get 7 callbacks out of 20 given that I am extremely mediocre compared to my amazing classmates (I'm B+/A- average; no journal).

T4 Top 5% LR, transferred to T50... 2 OCI interviews, 0 callbacks, mass mail --- no V100 interviews.

Disclaimer to 1L's: don't go T4, retake LSAT and pray

GULC right at top-33%, no journal, 22 OCI, 12 Callbacks, 8 Accepted, Interviewed at 4 before getting offers from my top 2 choices, Ended up getting dinged from one and one still outstanding, Canceled last 4 callbacks

GULC right at top-33%, no journal, 22 OCI, 12 Callbacks, 8 Accepted, Interviewed at 4 before getting offers from my top 2 choices (V-25), Ended up getting dinged from one (V-10) and one still outstanding (V-50), Canceled last 4 callbacks (all V-100's)

I did terrible in DC, but I probably caused firms to waste a few thousand dollars on not hiring me. And they wonder why they're struggling financially?

I'm top 1/3 at CCN and I went 2/10 on callbacks, but I'm a social Trig Palin and my resume was sub-par (a combination of mediocre work experience and careless job/club descriptions). What gets lost during recruiting season is that these firms are equally capable of ruining 2 years of our lives.

V30. Top 5%. Law Review. 16 OCIs, 13 Callbacks, 6 Accepted with two V10s, three V20s, one V25. Offers from all but one V10. Accepted with top choice firm (V15) and cancelled all other callbacks.

I agree that anyone in the top 15-20% with social skills is doing fine. Everyone else is hurting. V50 firms are less willing to "dig into the class" than in prior years (i.e., last year a V25 might have interviewed with the top 20%, but will only talk to the top 10% this year). Many firms have cut back on recruitment in second markets (i.e., Phoenix, Denver, Orange County, Salt Lake City, Seattle, etc.).

258 - No, its assets are too toxic.

Yeah, DC is awful this year. Let me add to the pain: T10, top 15-20%, no LR. Did 25 OCIs in DC, got only three callbacks, highest was ~V25, now just crossing fingers as I wait.

The real question, though, is what are my chance of improving next year if I reapply (assuming the economy gets out of the shitter)?

At my NYC-area school, no one is saying anything about jobs except those 10-12 2Ls who have gotten a callback for every OCI interview (who also happen to be the only people who got interviews). Everyone is afraid to talk about it, because I think we all feel really embarrassed that no one has gotten an offer, let alone an interview. I think the biggest failure here is that our career center has no idea what to tell us and no way to help us.

279: Social Trig Palin? I LOL'd.

lower T1, top 15-20%, journal..

20 OCI interviews, 5 callbacks, 2 dings, 3 outstanding...

T20, top 15%, journal

25 OCI's, 10 Callbacks, took 5, 2 dings (NY) 2 offers (LA)

one outstanding in LA.

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#1 in my class at Harvard Law, Wharton MBA, and University of Penn State Undergrad. I have receive neither any offers nor interviews because no one wants to hire someone from a public school in Philadephia.

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Got an offer from basically the TTTest "biglaw" firm in the region I wanted

But it pays market so who gives a shit.

With the economy like this, its going to be extremely tough to get a job. I got a part-time job just the other week from Outines.com. My school's job placement department is terrible so I had to go off on my own. My advice is to use online job sites, email firms, and work any connections you have.

Ropes is taking a really long time to get back to people - I interviewed 2 weeks ago in the Silicon Valley office and just got an email today that they need more time. They said they were "very behind schedule".

Penn seems to still be doing well this year. I'm around 50% (didnt do much last year) and have 3 offers from V10 firms in NY. 25 screening interviews, 22 callbacks, did 10 of them, 8 offers.

I have friends who did worse than I did and also have many good offers.

Cardozo 2L, top 15%, secondary journal. 26 OCI interviews, 11 callbacks (all V100), went to 8, 2 offers (1 V40, 1 V60), still haven't heard from a V40 (probably a bad sign).
I was originally a bit disappointed in this outcome, but I suppose I should be thanking my lucky stars.

St. John's Law, top 20%, journal, strong bankruptcy background, extra-curriculars, night student. What can I expect coming into this market?

291, congrats! Glad to hear the state schools aren't all fairing poorly.

Midwestern T40 state school, at top-10% cutoff, LR. 12 interviews at NYC job fair, 5 callbacks, 3 offers (1 V80, 1V60, 1 V40). 8 OCIs (7 Chi, 1 DC), 7 callbacks (all Chi), out of 1 accepted, 1 offer (V30). Two first-round interviews in NYC at firm offices (1 through campus resume collection, 1 through networking while working in NYC this summer), 2 callbacks, 2 offers (both V20).

I guess my success is a function of good social skills, being a successful college athlete, and a business undergrad with experience in Big 4 accounting firm.

Several of my friends here who are top 15-20% and less comfortable in an interview are still offerless though (even in Chi, where we normally clean up). I would agree with the assertion that firms are not going nearly as deep into the classes this year.

How is Clifford Chance?

How is Clifford Chance?

296/297 - Please refine what your "How" is referring to

Which is a better state school? University of Michigan State, Ann Arbor Campus or University of Pennsylvania State, Philadelphia Campus?

Guessing 295 is Wisconsin or Indiana. That would sound about right for either of them. Haven't heard them called T40 before, but the hiring profile is pretty much the same regardless of where the ranking ties shake out.

Contraction in Chicago - pressure from T14 students who didn't get callbacks/offers in D.C. and general reductions in hiring is really killing the students this bracket/region of schools. If you are Top 10% you are fine. If you're not, you were going to BigLaw on the strength of the expansion. Now you're not, and you're pressuring the regional firms underneath Chicago market, which squeeze other people further down.

Marketwatch had an article about this phenomenon with MBA students.

Here's something interesting to chew on (I've heard of others in a similar situation but I haven't seen anyone post here)

T20 2L Top 10% LR; my school has early OCI and I interviewed at the Patent Law Interview Program in Chicago, so I had completed most of my screening interviews by mid-August. I focused more on work than geography, so I've been to a number of primary and a few secondary markets.

I went 4/5 on offers from callbacks prior to September 1. Since then I've been 0/6. Either I turned into a jerk on September 1 or some firms got seriously nervous.

T90 school, Top third. No LR, No Moot Ct. Great supply of blow. Is V10 shooting too low?

T25 school, top half, 14 interviews, 11 callbacks, 9/9 offers. V5 firm.

I take it all the people having trouble with callbacks are white? Suckers!

AHHAHAH UPENN STAAAAATE

BEST JOKE EVERRRRRRR

JOE PA! JOE PA!

UMICHIGAN STATE TOM IZZO

LULZ LULZ LULZ!!!!

(on a serious note-- meet me at mansion manhattan Friday night for my 22md b-day)

LONG LIVE AUTOADMIT

XOXOHTH FREE CIOLLI

305!

last

This is a really scary time! Is anyone else concerned about their loans? Certain DA office positions are sounding very promising these days considering the loan forgiveness programs they have in place. Unless you're in a T1 school and top 10% with journal, you can forget BigLaw right now (unless you really know the right person), so it's time to start searching for mid size and then lateral asap when the market improves. I saw a few good postings on Outlines.com actually.

303 - You can take affirmative action and shove it right up . . . @#$$$@#!!!!

307 - did you find your current job pimping outlines.com on their job posting page? Buy some ad space you freeloader.

Ropes will have a slightly smaller class this year in Boston (last year was over 100), but I hear from people on the inside that they are in OK shape and are just taking their time getting offers out. Before the shit really hit the fan in the past few weeks, the firm was planning to grow over the next few years in Chicago, DC and NYC. Not sure whether that will still be true or if they will delay those plans.

Anyway, expect to wait at least 2 weeks after your callback.

298- How is the NYC office handling the current market woes? Is CC a TTT?

311 - I dont work for CC, but I have plenty of friends that do. From what I hear, things are dead in M&A, but other practices (with the exception of Real Estate) are busy.

312- Do your friends like it there?

Any word on how Winston-Chicago is handling the economic "downturn"?

Any word on how some of the tier II wall street firms are doing: i.e. Milbank, Fried Frank, Willkie?

313 - Yes. They absolutely love it. Unlike many of the other V30 firms, its not a sweat factory (for the most part). People there are very social and actually hang out with one another after work.

301: I've had a similar experience. I think the week where Lehman and Merrill went down was a real wake-up call to some firms.

I'm a litigator in Chicago- Can guess what's really booming right now? Legal malpractice. There are too damn many of us, so now we have to start eating other lawyers to make a living. Also, 75% of attorneys aren't worth their weight in candy corn.

There should be 50 law schools TOTAL in the entire country. Not 11,000 people waiting until November to get their NY bar results because there's just too many tests to grade.

Ive solved our problems, or at least those of you that choose to follow. I got slammed in OCI and am pushing my grad date back a year (2011) by jumping into the dual degree program (jd/mba). So 12 months from now I effectively get another shot at that all important 2L OCI, since my grad date is the same as theres and I can spend summer 2010 at BigLaw. Who else wants to jump deeper into debt and hit the books for another year?