Fall Recruiting Follow-Up: Part II
[Ed. note: Once again, we apologize for our technical difficulties.]
As everybody is starting to realize, fall recruiting is not going as well as it has in the past. In Part I of our recruiting roundup, we told you which markets are making it tough on summer associate applicants. Today, we'll talk about law schools.
If you had to pick one clear loser during this year's recruitment process, it would have to be Harvard Law School:
Basically, life is not particularly good for Harvard 2Ls these days: 1) OCI Call Backs have all been doled out to other (earlier) schools' students; and 2) the H-P-LP-F system leaves current Harvard 2L's at a disadvantage (in terms of misery) to their younger classmates.
Difficulty + Harvard = Open mockery from everyone else:
Dear Harvard students,We had earlier OCI programs and took your jobs. Sorry.
Sincerely,
State school students with multiple v5 and v10 callbacks
Interviews didn't start at HLS until September 18th, and it's pretty clear that the late start has hurt applicants. Remember how differently the economy looked just one month ago. On September 12th (before Lehman was thrown down with the sodomites), the Dow closed at 11,421. By September 17th, the Dow was down to 10,609. And right now you need an electron microscope to read the DJIA (9,220 as of 12:30 EDT).
Update: DJIA closed at 8,579 today.
Tomorrow is the last day for HLS OCI. It's a bad time to have bad timing.
HLS's response and stories from other schools, after the jump.
HLS is apparently reacting to the bad news from their students. Career services sent out this email earlier this week:
As OCI comes to a close, we want to remind you that we are here to help you in any way we can as you continue to explore OCI employers during callbacks or consider alternative approaches to the job search. With respect to callbacks, we are offering the following programs next week to make sure you are as prepared and confident as possible:* Successful Callback Interviews - Tuesday, Oct. 14th at noon (Ropes Gray) ...
* Callback Q & A - Tuesday, Oct. 14th and Wednesday, Oct 15th at 5:00 p.m. ...
Friday is the last day of OCI. We'll have a much clearer picture of how everyone is doing in the next few weeks. While we expect that most of you will do fine and have several options, we recognize that some of you may be completing OCI with fewer options than anticipated as a result of the economic slowdown. We are committed to assisting you throughout your job search and are taking the following steps:
* I have asked my staff to come in on the Columbus Day holiday (Monday, October 13) so that we can be available to help anyone with their job search. We will present the following program -- Next Steps: Conducting an Outside OCI Job Search - Monday Oct. 13th at noon. Lunch will be provided at this program;
* Advisors will be available for walk-in appointments on Monday afternoon to provide you with a personalized game plan for your job search;
* We are compiling lists of non-OCI law firms in various markets throughout the country. In particular, we are identifying non-OCI law firms where HLS alumni are working. Students will be able to access these resources and contact these additional employers;
* We will be collecting resumes of students still seeking jobs and will create regional resume books to circulate to employers that participated in OCI and still may be seeking to hire students for their summer programs (watch for an email about the resume books on Friday);
* We will inform OCI and non-OCI employers about our new videoconferencing capabilities for remote interviews and that we can easily accommodate additional on-campus interviews; and
* We are creating a webpage specifically for students continuing their job search beyond OCI that will link to all relevant job search resources.
I encourage you to take advantage of all of the resources available to you at OCS. We are committed to helping you realize your career goals and are with you every step of the way.
Mark Weber
Assistant Dean for Career Services
Mark Weber is working hard.
But HLS students are not the only ones suffering:
Leaving aside the HLS part of this, I don't think we can deny that OCI is going less well than other years this year.I'm at CLS - most people who did OCI have offers by now, but several don't. That's not the way it was for the current 3Ls.
Even if it isn't a total bloodbath, obviously recruits were expecting better heading into the fall:
Well, as a 2L at Chicago, I can say that it has been terrifying this year. Sure, I'm middle of the class, no journal, but I expected a LOT more than 3 callbacks (one ding from those 3). I still haven't heard on callbacks from about 3 firms, but I think there are plenty out there like me. It's just that we don't talk about it much to avoid making either ourselves or the other party to the conversation feel unexpectedly bad. Sure, maybe the whole system needs to change, but who wants to be in the wringer when it does? Not me.
But a main UofC competitor claims that things are just fine in the upper Midwest. A Northwestern tipster tells us:
I'm a 2L at Northwestern, and I have been very successful with Fall OCI.So far, I have had ten call-backs and currently have ten offers. Firms include Latham, Kirkland, Winston, McDermott, Katten, and Jenner. I was very pleased to be so successful. I limited my job search to the Chicago market, and I think it has paid off. It has been a very easy sell to firms wanting to know my interest in Chicago. Furthermore, every firm has consistently noted that though the economy is affecting things in general, it is not as significant an issue as it is in other cities.
I know that my classmates who are applying in Chicago have been similarly pleased with the Fall OCI process. In fact, it seems like Kirkland must have offered the entire 2L class. Some of my friends who are applying in other cities have also had great luck; however, I have heard that Denver and D.C. have been hard to break into.
Students at the University of Pennsylvania Law School are also claiming success:
Penn does seem to be doing well, Im a 2L and from what I've heard at least people seem happy, pleanty of V10-20 offers etc. to go around.
2L at U. Penn., middle of the class, only looking in NYC, 31 OCIs, 12 callbacks, took 8, so far 7 offers and haven't heard from the last. Granted, I was not looking at V20 firms because I don't want to spend every night this summer on a boat cruise or at some other forced social event, but I am still pretty happy about my stats. Go Penn!
Even if you drift outside of the T-14, the going is difficult, but there are still opportunities:
Heard from many folks who were Top 25% at Fordham and they did great - 20-30 callbacks, 5-10 offers (after some callbacks cancelled by the student), all V30 or better, most V20-V1. I was top 33% myself and got a V20s firm, but that was mostly luck and a resume that fit the firm's environment well. In previous years top 33% at Fordham was almost guaranteed a V80 or better firm, but now many of us are struggling. Median-range at Fordham used to have hopes at Vault but now that's simply not happening. The economy is killing us.Many friends of mine at Brooklyn Law who are top 33% are gettling absolutely nothing.
A personable top 50% at Cardozo has already given up hope.
But outside the top tier? You might be in serious trouble:
Top 20% at Tier Three with LR and moot court. Only 1 OCI (DuaneMorris) that wasn't JAG. Mailed out over 100 resumes, no interviews there either. Our Top 10% aren't even getting offers. One offer in the entire 2L class, and she's numero uno.
If you have a job already: congratulations. Just be tactful about where and how you celebrate -- your friends may not be so lucky.
Earlier: Fall Recruiting Follow-Up: Part I
Open Thread: How is the Fall Recruiting Season Shaping Up?
(204) Comments
first!
I'm Firsty
I'm Firsty?
First time in my career I'm am glad from a financial perspective to be a government lawyer.
last night i had a dream that i got a 1L sa position at simpson. when i woke up i ran to my computer to check nalp, it turns out they don't even hire 1L's.
:(
-nervous T-10 1L
I gotta tell you the truth - Cornell is sitting pretty too. Almost all of the 2L class has offers, with some sweeping their OCIs and callbacks.
Can't speak for 3Ls, though.
Should Wall Street firms be avoided at all costs? Are "secondary markets" safer?
First to note that "differently" is an adverb. The adjective you were looking for was "different."
Seriously all, now you don't have to prep for the bar the old fashion way...Kaplan PMBR's advertisements are great.
there's like 3 grammer errors in this post. an ice cream for the first person to find all of them.
8=first to be a tool in this particular thread--congrats!
Thanks, 11. What you call tool, I call well on my way to winning 10's ice cream.
-8
my michigan classmates seem to be doing great for 2L OCI (maybe b/c we target more secondary markets?) does this bode well for my chance come december 1? oh man, i'm getting so nervous...
-nervous T-10 1L
10,
Do those errors include the misspelling of the word "grammar" in your comment?
11, you can't call 8 the first tool when there was clearly a Cornell student posting prior to him.
"And right now you need an electron microscope to read the DJIA (9,220 as of 12:30 EDT). "
Somebody get that man Internet access.
Nervous T-10 1L,
Start looking into/making lists for Judicial internships NOW, there will be even more competition there than usual since firms are no longer an option for most 1Ls. Plus, federal judicial internships are prestigious stepping stones to uber-prestigious clerkships.
~Friendly advice-giver
10: "Remember how differently the economy looked just one month ago."
Not technically an error, but this was probably intended to be a question and not a command.
But really, how lazy is Elie to not check the market again before posting? It's at ~8,500, so Elie only missed the mark by about 700 points. FAIL.
10= Hofstra 2L
Okay 10, I'll bite:
1. 8 hit it on the head, no need to elaborate
2. first paragraph, 'we told which'...should be 'we told you which.' Or, to make for a respectable sentence, 'we covered the tough markets for summer associates.'
3. 'Interviews didn't start at HLS until September 18th and it's pretty clear that the late state has hurt applicants.' Late 'start' not 'state'
I like strawberry...
Not overly worried about HLS students - if they don't get firm jobs can always do public interest. After all, the law school offers Low Income Protection Plan (probably best at any law school). Not to mention, if some of the students would look to secondary and/or tertiary markets where they have connections they will almost certainly get bites (firms in non-Chicago midwest cities would almost certainly be happy to get a chance at HLS grads with connections to the regions as they don't usually draw such candidates).
Finally, going late in the season isn't the only problem. Add to it the fact that each class has around 550 students. I am an '05 grad and our OCI had something like 800+ employers interviewing. If those numbers are down it may be harder for each student (especially less personable ones) to get call backs. But overall, I'm sure HLS won't do that badly in the long run. Plenty of options other than firms and you take less of a financial hit due to LIPP. Rather be at HLS than a non top 25 school in this market, even if things are tougher than usual.
GULC student at a V5.
Let the bashing begin.
"late state"?
Hey Elie, I've got some GM stock for sale at market (12:30 EDT) price. Interested?
At SeTTTon Hall if you are in the top 10% and on LR you're good to go for NY BigLaw (except Wachtell). People beyond that are stuck on this side of the Hudson river for next summer (unless you have an engineering background and want to do IP). I do think, however, that we are doing better than the other TTT NJ/NY schools.
Wow. Really sorry to hear this, and as a HLS alum I'm probably one of the few folks who feels sympathy for the current HLS 2Ls. It was really different back in fall '04. Sorry you guys are struggling, though you will do fine and end up looking back at this time just fine from a distance. As for the administration, hopefully this will be the wakeup call they need that HLS students should have a shot at early OCI like everyone else. HLS (and YLS) holding their OCIs so late and arrogantly expecting that firms will hold open spots for *their* students - well, it looks like that gameplan needs to get changed.
-HLS 2006
For the record, to say the Dow is microscopic right now is not looking at it with the right focus. Yes, compared to earlier this year, the Dow is low. But, the highs the Dow has seen in the past were really the result of artificial inflation of the index.
What this means for all of our jobs, I'm not smart enough to predict,
10: "If you had to pick one clear loser during this year's recruitment process, it would have to be Harvard Law School:"
How he types "Elie Mystal" as "Harvard Law School" is beyond me.
No apologize needed editor...
nice reference to the shawshank redemption, mystal. i bet lat likes it too...
Nervous T-10 1L,
Start looking into/making lists for Judicial internships NOW, there will be even more competition there than usual since firms are no longer an option for most 1Ls. Plus, federal judicial internships are prestigious stepping stones to uber-prestigious clerkships.
~Friendly advice-giver
Gentlemen at the legal preparatory academy with which I was once affiliated -- which, as it turns out, happens to be the selfsame legal preparatory academy that is discussed extensively in this post -- from time to time found themselves in periods of economic distress, in which there was a general wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of stylish garments among those employed in the financial services industry. The aforementioned economic distress resulted in the gentlemen of the legal preparatory academy to receive fewer offers of employment by providers of legal services, both of the temporary sort and otherwise. Upon realization that the legal preparatory academy remained possessed of a reputation that, generally speaking, far outweighed its actual merits, the gentlemen concluded that these times of economic distress were, in reality, not in and of themselves of particular significance, or even worthy of a 3L seminar.
to 26 - it may be arrogant of HLS and YLS, but in all honestly, I'm on the hiring committee at my firm (apparently they needed someone jr) and they do hold spots open for those schools.
overall, that arrogance rarely hurts those schools. it has taken a large economic crisis to cause any damage whatsoever and i wouldn't be surprised if after the dust settles and the summer recruiting season ends, hls doesn't do all that poorly at all. i mean, come on - the school has something like 98 or 99% of grads employed at graduation. if that drops a few points as a result of the economy it won't be shocking, but considering the class size, i would bet that they still end up in a position as good as or better than almost all top 10 schools.
"Ed. Note: Once again, we apologies for our technical difficulties"
Unreal. Try turning on the light next time you type.
Well, at least Penn State students have some good news to offset JoePa's poor health.
Top 1/2 of the class at Emory did very well. Secondary journals didn't seem to make much difference though. The Atlanta market was tight, but NY/DC and some secondary-markets grabbed a bunch of people as well, which seemed to help.
34: Yeah, I noticed it, too.
I spend more time looking at the typos than reading the stories now.
OCI hiring is not like day-trading, its a long term view.
Law firms are recruiting today to hire Summer of '09 summers, who will in turn be fall 2010 incoming first year associates. That's almost a 2 year planning horizon.
I'm just sayin.
Speaking of JoePa's health, is there an inverse relationship to how well he is and how well the team plays, i.e. he is in poor health, the team is 6-0?
It is all relative.
While HLS is certainly worse this year than in previous years (in Fall '06 you could write your ticket anywhere, good times) I find it hard to believe that HLS is going to end up doing worse than other schools.
Sure our placement might not be, on a relative basis, as much better than the Columbia and Chicago's of the world as it has been in the past I'm sure that on the whole our class will end up with jobs that are still, on average, better than pretty much any other school out there (save maybe SLS and YLS).
In other words, times might be hard at HLS, but I don't believe that the bottom 50% at NYU are going to have better jobs than the bottom 50% at HLS when all is said and done.
How is everyone doing at U of C? I've heard from people at both ends.
The real question is about the long term effects for '10 grads. People at HLS/CLS aren't angsty because they can't get jobs -- I'd be shocked if anyone can't get a V50 or better gig -- but because their long term plans have always been to spend a few years at a V5 and then go make partner elsewhere or become a filthy rich hedge fund manager. Are their careers ruined because they're starting off lower on the totem pole?
I just have to wonder how realistic the assertions of "most of the 2L class has offers" are. Do you really think that people are advertising their mailing campaigns or dings? At my T10, I know that there are plenty of 2Ls still hoping and hunting.
42 is a douche-bag.
I notice a pattern here: smaller law schools are fairing better in a bad economy and the larger schools, even if they are more prestigious in some instances, are taking the hits. This seems to make complete sense. Firms have to cut back, but they are not going to cut out entire schools in the T10, thus the hedging has to occur with respect to the larger schools.
I'll chime in for Brooklyn. The post is right - I know people who were top 30% last year that ended up in BigLaw and that is definitely not happening this year. BLS is probably placing top 20% in BigLaw (and I know this because I'm top 20%), but you definitely need a journal or moot court on the resume to be competitive. That said, most of the people I know on my journal have multiple offers at V-5 through V-50 firms.
It will be interesting to see the actual statistics when the dust settles, though I will take them with a grain of salt if Joan King has any influence on how they are collected and/or reported.
42 here. I'm really just telling it how it is. Do you really think that these HLS 2Ls are crying because they're getting dinged at Proskauer or Chadbourne? No, it's because the only reason they came to law school in the first place was to work at Cravath or DPW.
this post doesn't directly address my chances at getting a job at WILDMAN HARROLD. i'm top 100% at a FTT, but my comment on international widget trade was recently cited by a traffic court in bratislava. please advise.
"[Ed. Note: Once again, we apologize for our technical difficulties.]"
lern 2 english dude.
Go JAG FTW.
48=funny
thanks 48...
CLS has faired fantastically. All 2Ls I know, including myself, have already received multiple offers at top NY law firms.
10: there is one grammatical error in your own comment.
ass.
I agree with 53 -- CLS is cleaning up.
-- CLS Troll, soon to be a V5 summer troll
33: I'm on the recruiting committee as well, and we also hold open spots for the Yale and Harvard kids (and yes, our standards for those kids having to be able to carry on a decent conversation are much, much lower). HOWEVER, by the time we ever get to the Harvard and Yale callbacks, we've completed our callbacks from every other law school. So each year, we have to worry whether or not we'll be oversubscribed by the time we get to the Harvard and Yale kids (who honestly probably have a lot of choices). Since by and large we're giving callbacks to some pretty impressive, interesting or charismatic students outside of Harvard and Yale, there's always a worry that too many of the earlier offers will accept and we'll be stuck.
As I look at it, there's a bit of risk for the Harvard and Yale kids in down times that there aren't as many offers for them, but it's actually helpful for all other law students on the whole, since they're not being compared against Harvard and Yale students during the same weeks. A "meh" candidate from a T10 or a charismatic candidate from a top 25 can get an offer in a week where he's one of the biggest fish -- not in a week where he's up against candidates from the top 3 schools.
56 - Stop the excessive H/Y trolling. You're a douchebag and it's transparent.
forget the offers - how long is it taking people to get reimbursement checks? I'm coming up on a month now without my $$$$$. Thanks for the offer, but F YOU PAY ME.
It's actually refreshing that state schools like Penn are faring well. It's nice to see firms recognize that just because they aren't ivy doesn't mean their students won't make great lawyers. Could Penn now have the edge over the ivies in football AND law?
The new acceptance rules should help too. If you are at a school where you started OCI in August, the clock is ticking on the offers. We have offers that time-out in a week or two, so easier to predict whether the first group will accept or reject. This year, more people will be stuck with waiting until November to know their fate.
Man, this economy is making me so nervous. I'm definitely going to become a BarBri rep so I can put in on my resume.
- nervous T-10 1L
58, call the firm and bug them. That is too long to wait.
Elie, are you trying to quote Shawshank? I believe the operative verb is "cast" not "throw."
UVA 1L: bottom 40%, journal, multiple offers from v15 firms.
No problems here as far as I know.
UVA 1L: bottom 40%, journal, multiple offers from v15 firms.
No problems here as far as I know.
UVA 2L: bottom 40%, journal, multiple offers from v15 firms.
No problems here as far as I know.
Legal Fraternity Lothario, I love you.
57: Um, no. I'm a 7th year associate who attended neither school. I was a "meh" candidate (on paper) from a top 10 back in the day.
I'm just being honest. We get our first Harvard callbacks next week. But we've given a lot of offers to date...
Another UVA 2L, I have a few offers, but not everyone is doing so well:
http://www.uvalawblog.com/2008/09/ogi-post-12-open-thread-hows-it-going.html
Nearly 30% having trouble.
people really should note if they have some special advantage for the firm (patent/gay/minority/female/really attractive AND female) in order to not skew the numbers for those of us white males that went straight through from undergrad.
also, 64: if you are going to troll you may as well lie without violating the ABA guidelines on 1L job searches.
Things seem to be going fine here. Most have jobs, many have top jobs. Question, though, has anyone heard much about Simpson? I have not heard anyone here talking about them.
-NYU 2L
Ha! Harvard. I feel bad for the ones that get shutout. But I would pay to hear them explain how they chose to buck the trend 2L summer and give back to the community rather than be complicit in the wasteful summer wine n dine.
Despite what their career services might think, I doubt secondary firms are going to swoop in and pick many of them up. Who the hell wants a summer or, god forbid, a new hire that is obviously just collecting paychecks while frantically searching for a life raft. Plus, speaking from a firm drone perspective, I would rather have someone in the top 15% of some random T1 than the bottom 1/3 of Harvard. I believe my firm met its Harvard quota years ago.
Top 10% at GULC = Very happy. What recession?
Top 1/3 at GULC= Have at least one good offer, often more.
Midde 1/3 at GULC= Lucky to get midlaw offer in secondary market.or NYC. DC is out of the question.
Bottom 1/3 at GULC= Uh...let's look at LRAP.
2L, T5, top 25-30%, LR, unenthusiastic interviewee.
Swept on-campus interviews (before economic disaster), but 6 callbacks (taking place after economic disaster) at 6 V-10 firms in the Bay Area netted just 2 offers, 3 dings, and I'm still waiting to hear back from Simpson Thacher (likelihood of 4th ding > 90%).
I've got a job I'm very happy with in SF, but I know a lot of 2Ls at my T5 who are seriously out of sorts at their lack of callbacks/offers.
This being a selective school, I think much of the discontent comes not from not getting a job, but from not getting a prestigious enough job. I still believe everyone here who wants to will make $160K their first year, though they'll be less vain about their business cards.
In good times, it's good to go to a T10. In bad times, it's even better. That may be snobby, but it's a poor cost/benefit calculation to go to a subpar law school, unless it's on scholarship.
CLS is not performing as well as usual. An unusual number of people in the top third are not getting V-10. I have at least a couple of friends in the 40-50% percentile that do not have jobs altogether. Yes, many are getting exactly what they hoped for, naturally, but things aren't all peaches and cream, even for law review people.
Yes, 42 is right in that the usual complaint is that not getting the offer you want will marginally limit exit opportunities later, though that isn't altogether quantifiable. But there is that significant swath of people that don't have jobs, and now they are getting out there and trying to find something else to do.
Anybody that says otherwise probably knows about 5 people at my school (most likely their study group).
I'll echo some of these posts about CLS. There are a few without offers, and we were the first school to do OCI.
Everyone is getting slammed this year. Anyone who posts that their school has not felt any effect is trolling.
I do feel bad for the HLS kids. I've seen a few friends struggling and we even interviewed (although in many cases had not done callbacks) before the wheels really came off.
so . . . who is saying that HLS students are not getting offers again?
Also, something to keep in mind is that firms the have been "oversubscribed" by non top 3 2Ls may try to rebalance after 2009 summer. if the economy is still in the tank they'll probably no-offer a bunch of students from lower ranked schools so they get their share of top ranked school students.
remember, the fact that they are oversubscribed is a fluke. They were caught off guard. They'll get another chance to correct this at the end of 2009 summer.
just something to keep in mind.
*reports 64 for violation of nalp guidelines, hopes that i can pick up one of those rescinded v15 offers*
-nervous T-10 1L
77 - You think you're immune? You clearly missed Elie's post about the Chicago firm *only* no-offering HYS summers.
Attending a top law school makes it much easier for you to get into a firm, but once your there, nobody gives a shit where you're from. The value of your school peaks when you are a 2L.
Presidential Plans for the Economy:
Just in case you live in a cave, the current state of the Economy is: "The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell below 9,000 for the first time since 2003 today, closing at 8,579.19. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index fell for the seventh day, losing 7.6 percent to 909.92. Higher borrowing costs and slower consumer spending have spurred concern that carmakers, insurers and energy companies will be the next victims of the credit crisis....GM stock tumbled to lowest since 1950" From Bloomberg.com
So, what's the plan you ask??
1) Obama: ``Now is not the time for fear or panic, but for all of us to come together with resolve and determination that we can steer ourselves out of this crisis.' hmmm... I don't know about that.
2) McCain: ``We have to get this economy turned around and we have to get it turned around immediately.' No shit!
Don't worry though, our current president must have a solid plan.... right??
3) George Bush: will address the nation tomorrow (Oct. 9) to tell Americans they should remain ``confident'' amid falling stock markets and a worldwide credit crisis, administration spokeswoman. HAHA...
We are so fucked!
"before Lehman was thrown down with the sodomites"???
CLS is fine, I don't know anyone who doesn't have a job, regardless of rank.
Good post.
Another CLS student here: the overwhelming majority has received at least one offer, but several people -- not only the bottom of the class -- still haven't. (Unlike suggested by another commenter, we're not talking V50 here. I think the people who are left jobless generally knew better than to apply only to top firms.)
Top 25% and secondary journal at Seton Hall (with engineering degree, but no experience) --> NYC BigLaw
82--just because everyone you know has an offer doesn't mean everything is groovy at CLS. Several other commenters said they know students without offers.
79- If the economy is in the tank, no one will be immune.
Hey Northwestern 2L quoted in the article: 10 offers is great, but do you really need 10 open offers at this point when you will take, at most, 2? Come on, drop a few (Jenner and Katten come to mind) to free up offers for your friends and classmates. Realize that firms often wait for offerees to decline before making offers to others, especially with the new NALP rules.
That Northwestern 2L is willfully and maliciously violating NALP guidelines that 2Ls can only keep open five offers at a time. What a scumbag.
NYU is A-OK.
Except for the weirdos.
89 - that's 95% of NYU.
Whatever, I won't be shedding any tears for those poor Harvard trust fund kids. Daddy will find them a job sooner or later.
Anyone else noticing that the people who seem to be getting offers at the lower-ranked firms are pretty dumb, but sociable?
91--WTF makes you think all Harvard kids have rich/well-connected families? It hasn't been that way for decades.
im at penn, didnt get into harvard, kinda happy about that, in retrospect (ill be at a V10 this summer :) )
but 91, youre a douche. you think the majority of the 600 Harvard kids are trust fund kids? ridiculous. and even if it IS a high percentage, its no higher than the rest of us in ive league law schools. asshat.
I'm a Harvard 2L with a B+ average. I've gotten callbacks from 16 out of 18 firms (and the two I didn't get were totally random, not high-ranked firms by any means). None of my friends have been complaining either. Not sure where the angst in this post is coming from... ATL overreacting?
95 is right. I haven't seen any evidence at HLS that students are having a difficult time getting callbacks (and hopefully offers).
now, i'm a 3L at HLS and don't know many 2L. But the few that I know are happy that interviews are over and are eager to get fly-out week behind them.
Another point, I see many non-HLS 2L posters on this thread. Where are all the HLS 2Ls anyway? (hopefully not sobbing about non-offers!) They are the ones who can tell us what's really going on. Based on the 2Ls i know and 95's comment, they seem to be doing a-ok.
last point, I've seen some students attribute randomness of callbacks and offers to the current market (i.e., got a call back/offer from a v10 but no offered at v-whatever). This is just as likely the same randomness that happens each year and probably has nothing to do with the economy.
94 - "rest of us at ivy league schools"
lol, the only public school that can consider itself ivy is cornell (and even that is a stretch). you realize the ivy league is a sports conference right? last time i checked you were in the big 10...quit deluding yourself.
As a 2L, I did 31 interviews at OCI, received 24 callback offers, took 15 of those callbacks, received 13 offers, and split between two of those firms (both V20 NYC firms, one in NY / other in branch office).
Sounds like things aren't so hot this year.
'08 Grad
Princeton Law 2L here. Five V-5 offers. Figure I'll wait the 45 days to screw over the Harvard trust fund asshats. Then I'll head down to Trenton and find me a hooker and some chips ahoy cookies.
The above is about as believable as all the previous "I have a large dick" posts.
I'm a harvard 2L w/ B+/A- average and 7 callbacks/20 interviews. However I have no journal experience, am only looking at SF, and still haven't heard back from 5 of those 20 since I just did them this week. NY/Boston and some L.A. people are doing great, but from the people I talk to, SF and D.C. are being a bit stingy with the callbacks..
Also, my grammar are horrible because me got no sleep last nights
- 100
Cooley 3L here. Just got a callback for a volunteer position with the Flint DA's office. My interviewer was impressed that we're ranked higher than Stanford.
Watch for Steptoe & Johnson layoffs. You heard it here first.
Quick question:
Skadden or Ropes & Gray or Winston Strawn for NYC?
Is the exit opportunities and "prestige" at Skadden worth the extra hours?
104, no. Skadden is new money, and no reputable corporation hire from there.
Quick Answer:
Go fuck yourself. This isn't an advice column. Go type your question into "Ask Jeeves".
NYU 2L here -
Things are definitely worse than usual. At least a few people without offers. I only think people are disappointed because people start with an "everyone gets a job" mentality. That is just not true at my school this year.
97, you are Ivy League illiterate, twice-over: (1) When people say "Penn," they are referring to the University of Pennsylvania, which is in fact in the Ivy League. People call it "Penn" all the time. (And the answer to the question "What do people call Penn State?" is, of course, "Who the f*ck cares.") And (2): Cornell is also in the Ivy League.
So let's all review, boys and girls, the members of the Ivy League: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton, University of Pennsylvania, Yale. Now let's go pop a collar.
Is it possible to block all comments other than those from T14ers with V10 offers? I'm getting quite sick of all the riff raff on this board.
Things are really bad. I only three of my friends got SCOTUS clerkships this year. Everyone is spooked.
OMG, anyone who thinks there is a difference between a v5 and v10 firm or who really cares if their law firm is a T14 or T15 or whatever is a retard. The one good thing about the economic crisis is that it is making you realize how remarkably average you truly are.
A few notes to those with offers: (1) Congrats! (2) Now, make your choice as soon as possible and call to turn the other firms down. Do so before you are required to. This helps firms to adjust the size of their summer class -- and it may even free up some room to give one of your classmates/peers an offer. This is not a year where hoarding offers is good form (it never is, but this year it could actually matter).
Best of luck to those interviewing and going on callbacks.
~Cornell alum (who is happy to hear from no. 6 that things are going well in Ithaca)
BLS 2L here with 8 V40 offers, including 2 V20. I'm relieved HLS rejected my application.
That being said, we're destined for the soup lines anyway, so this is just neighborhood of make believe at this point. There won't be jobs for any of us unless an asteroid filled with gold strikes the East Coast (which would screw all the people who have already purchased gold at premium prices, but that is their problem).
Well, that Northwestern person has a good point about focusing on a city. I'm a Chicago 3L, and the 2L's I know who are suffering the most are the ones who went to firm interviews saying, "well, I'm interviewing in Chicago, New York, San Francisco, and DC." It's not that firms aren't hiring this year, but they're no longer financing trips so that you can fly to a different city every weekend in October for a random hookup with someone you meet in the hotel bar.
Things ARE worse than usual, but you'd have to be pretty below the median grade here to not get anything acceptable through OCI. And it's different city-to-city. I've heard DC and SF are tough this year.
77 makes a great point. All T-10 1L's should now be nervous.
Nervous T-10 1L (though not the one who's been posting under that title until now -- we are all Nervous T-10 1L now)
Top 5 2L here -
Thank God I turned down that full ride from Vandy. Vault 10 offers IN THIS ECONOMY!
I think some people at CLS just aren't good candidates. I don't know how they got in, but a lot of people here aren't that smart, aren't hard-working, or have terrible personalities.
117: It's called "looking good on paper"
97: You are REALLY slow. Damn... Humor is completely lost on some people.
if you're top 1/2 at a T7 and still can't get an offer, it's your own fault. you're either a social misfit, come across as dumb,