Interview Lunch Spots: ‘Not Everyone Likes Meat’
The halcyon days of summer have passed. Gone are the epic lunches and frequent happy hours with eager summer associates. By the time September rolled around though, many were relieved to get back to work and not feel obligated to while away the hours talking to law students about the merits of firm life.
But now it’s October. And law students will be entering your life again soon. It’s interview season!
Which means more talk of firm merits, and more importantly, more lunches. During a recent online chat with Washington Post food critic Tom Sietsema, one lawyer chimed in with a helpful hint for interviewers: Be sensitive to interviewees’ diet limitations.
Washington, D.C.: Tom… I’m an attorney at a huge D.C. law firm… [T]his is interview season. My colleagues and I will be taking hundreds of potential associates out for fancy lunches this fall. And I’m always shocked to hear the places my colleagues sometimes venture for these lunches, and more shocked to see their jaw drop when they realize their choice might not have been welcomed by the interviewee. I adore Rasika [Ed. note: Up-scale Indian restaurant in D.C.], but I would never take a job candidate there. That’s just unfair. Some people don’t like spice; others might be thrown off their game by an ethnic menu. As a vegetarian, I am particularly sensitive to the issue (I remember interviewing at several law firms that took me to the Capital Grille [Ed. note: D.C. Steakhouse] where the only thing on the menu I could eat was the $7 green salad - and consequently half the interview discussion awkwardly revolved around my dietary preferences). I’ve also been tipped onto celiac disease - which a shockingly large number of my colleagues have. So basically, when taking someone on an interview lunch, I pick innocuous, unoffensive “standard” food…. So, to all you attorneys doing interview season right now, think a little about where you take the candidate!!Tom Sietsema: Good advice re: business meals. Not everyone likes meat, or something foreign, or A Fancy Experience.
We disagree with the Washington, D.C. lawyer. Our thoughts:
Another legal lunch comment from the Washington Post food chat, after the jump.
A lawyer reminisces about a partner being a jerk at her interview lunch:
Mass Ave, DC: The comment from Washington about taking law school candidates out to lunch brought back memories. For some reason, the year I interviewed, lots of firms took me to The Palm [Ed. note: Another D.C. steakhouse]. My most memorable lunch was when I arrived at The Palm with 2 partners and we were told their oven had broken and they were only serving cold lunch choices. One of the partners carried on like they had just told him his car had been repossessed - and stormed out with the other 2 of us in tow. He marched us about 5 blocks away (I recall the distance because I was in heels) to someplace that had a working oven, but continused [sic] to fume about the injustice of it all through lunch. Needless to say, I did not choose to work at that firm. Moral of the story - sometimes its just not all about the food.Tom Sietsema: Great story. And sometimes “It’s not all about you,” right?
Was Tom Sietsema bringing the snark here? Because this was not a “great story.” We like the partner’s gumption. He should storm out if an expensive restaurant has a broken oven. And interviewee should wear shoes that allow her to walk five blocks without the need to complain about it.
Tom Talks Shop [Washington Post]
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Comments
The idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that."
I just got back from an interview lunch.
We went overbudget. Oh well.
These pretzels are making me want to vote for Sarah Palin.
French onion soup is usually made with beef broth.
I take all our interviewees to a sushi place and make them order fugu (pufferfish). If they don't/won't eat it, they get dinged right there, and we stick them with the check. Pussies need not apply at my firm.
French onion soup is generally made with beef broth. Some people don't eat meat for religious or health reasons. But hey, if you think it tastes good, awesome.
Just suck it up and eat the steak for Christ sake
Oh, so brave eating fugu, 5! pat yourself on the back for being a man!
I'm a 2L at GULC, and I don't eat meat and I've been dreading interview season for this exact reason. Whenever possible I just schedule a non-lunch afternoon callback to avoid the problem completely. I'd rather just buy my own lunch and avoid the awkward conversation about why I'm just ordering a salad.
If you're not willing to compromise every principle you have, maybe big firm life isn't for you.
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family, religion, friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in [[a law firm]]. When opportunity knocks, you don't want to be driving to a maternity hospital or sitting in some phony-baloney church. Or synagogue." --Monty
Kirkland DC didn't take me, or anyone else I know, out to lunch.. :(
I'd like to watch Kash eat meat.
I'd like to watch Kash eat meat.
Actual food allergies or celiac disease are one thing. Being a noisy vegetarian is another. Our friend with the salad just got a job at another law firm.
Kash is the best.
1. Capital Grille sucks. It's by far the worst steak house around - even Outback kicks its ass.
2. Why has every Palo Alto firm taken me to Evvia? Does this happen to everyone else?
Damn, first Elie with his alpha-croc story and now Kash with the steak. Is ATL compensating for something today with all this machismo?
Muslim Law Student
Invited to lunch and callback interview in Philadelphia......
In the middle of the month of Ramadan.
Now that is inconsiderate.
9: Don't worry if you are really a 2L at GULC you have no shot of getting a callback so won't have to worry about the lunch
Muslim Law Student
Invited to lunch and callback interview in Philadelphia......
In the middle of the month of Ramadan.
Now that is inconsiderate.
I have Celiac Disease, and it is so uncomfortable having to go to these lunches! There is always something that I can eat, but I have to make special requests (burger - no bun, salad - no croutons). The interviewer always comments about how I eat so healthy or whatever they come up with, then we spend the next 30 minutes talking about my disease. I hate it!
Hasn't interview season been underway for over a month now? Are people actually still interviewing?
I take all my interviewees to steak houses. The rarer you eat your meat = the more aggressive you are. If they order it medium well or well -- or god forbid, don't eat steak -- I want nothing to do with them.
onion soup has a chicken or beef boullion base - hence not for some types of vegetarians
I'm just glad that Dorsia now has gluten-free menu options.
When you're a vegetarian, how can you not know that you'll be conspicuous at some point? It's your choice to refrain from meat and if you're comfortable with it I don't see what the huge drama is. When I was interviewing I got taken out for sushi by the firm I ultimately went with . I hate sushi. I chose other things on the menu, got over it, and felt damned lucky to have a callback.
Most firms I had lunches with during callbacks asked ahead of time if we had any dietary restrictions. As a firm, you're expected to be a good host, which means preparing for things such as vegetarian interviewees. As a student, you're expected to be able to handle minor inconveniences, such as being a vegetarian and being brought to a steakhouse. Capital Grille also has a few side dishes which don't contain meat. If you can't figure out how to handle a little bump in your lunch plans, you'll never manage as a lawyer.
I was invited to a lunch with two other associates and an interviewee, but was not told that we would be going to a vegan japanese restaurant. I despise tofu, and am allergic to mushrooms (eliminating about 95% of the menu), but I still managed not to make a scene.
good post, but you're like 2 months too late. we're wrapping up our last interviews this month.
Yes, Evvia is one of the major go-to restaurants, but that's only because there's so few good restaurants in Palo Alto.
"others might be thrown off their game by an ethnic menu."
This is 2008. If you're thrown off by an ethnic menu you don't deserve BIGLAW and should go back to Mississippi.
18/20 - how is the law firm supposed to know you're a practicing Muslim? Just say that you can't do lunch that day but can interview starting in the afternoon. Geez, it isn't like they forced you to eat bacon.
I take all my interviewees to steak houses. The rarer you eat your meat = the more aggressive you are. If they order it medium well or well -- or god forbid, don't eat steak -- I want nothing to do with them.
THE BAILOUT IS SO BACK ON
For SV (Palo Alto), I hate the CRAP places people like take interviewees for lunch:
Bistro Elan, Tamarine, Straits, and all time worst place to have lunch down there, Evvia. Seriously wish someone would burn Evvia down so we wouldn't have those snobby associates taking anyone there.
First, I think interview season is winding down, not just getting going.
Second, where do people suggest I take interviewees? I avoid sushi and Indian, as I know a lot of people don't like them. I also generally avoid seafood, as I know a fair number of people who don't eat fish. That basically leaves steak, and now some of you are saying a steak place is not a good choice. I know vegetarians have it rough, but I figured they could find something to eat at a steak place.
9: Don't worry if you are really a 2L at GULC you have no shot of getting a callback so won't have to worry about the lunch
30: It would depend on just how ethnic. Ever had authentic Ethiopian food?
Neither have Ethiopians!
When I was interviewing a billion years ago (mid-90s), the recruiting people would always ask about dietary restrictions when scheduling interviews that would include a lunch. It wasn't an issue for me, but I had lots of classmates who were kosher or veg and they were always accommodated. I'd be surprised if this wasn't still done today.
34 - Totally agree (I'm an associate in SV). I actually like (not love) Evvia, but don't normally take interviewees there. I prefer to go to more casual places where we can feel comfortable and chat. Some people take all interviewees to Evvia, like it's going to blow them away.
35: Ask your interviewees if they have any dietary restrictions.
As a mid-level/senior associate at any decent firm you'll expected to occasionally accompany partners at luncheons and even dinners with major clients. Guess who chooses the restaurant? NOT YOU. Nobody cares that you are VAGitarian, religious, or have some bizarre food alergy. Not bitching and not caring about where you are taken out to eat is just part of being a mature professional. Quit being such a beauty queen. Major D-BAG alert for the author of the original article.
yeah most firms are very good about asking about dietary restrictions
16:
Blame all the elitist, snobby, foo foo loving associates WSGR-PA and STB-PA who thinks somehow Evvia is the best restaurant ever. First off, greek food isn't that great and not diverse enough of a menu to take people to such a restaurant, but Evvia is "California Greek."
WTF is that?? I concur with 34: Evvia should be closed down. There are plenty of great places to eat in Palo Alto that are better than those listed in 34.
Want steak? Go to Sundance.
Want Indian? Junoon or Amber India (in Mountain View, but worth it)
Want italian? Madison & Fifth is okay, so is Lavanda
Stay away from Evvia, Tamarine, Fuki Sushi, Bistro Elan, etc, etc.
21: There are two ways to handle celiac disease at an interview lunch.
Way One:
YOU: Salad, no croutons, please.
ATTY: Boy, you eat healthy.
YOU: Well, no actually, I have celiac disease.
Whereupon, you spend a half an hour discussing your medical issues. FAIL.
WAY TWO:
YOU: Salad, no croutons, please.
ATTY: Boy, you eat healthy.
YOU: Well, I try. (modest blush optional). So, tell me about the firm's transactional practice ....
WIN.
21: Two ways to handle a dietary restriction like celiac disease during an interview:
WRONG WAY:
YOU: Salad, no croutons, please.
ATTY: You sure eat healthy.
YOU: Actually, I have celiac disease.
ATTY: What's that?
Whereupon, you spend half an hour discussing your medical condition. FAIL.
RIGHT WAY:
YOU: Salad, no croutons, please.
ATTY: You sure eat healthy.
YOU: Well, I try. (modest blush optional) So, tell me more about [area you in which you are currently feigning an interest in order to get a job].
WIN.
Indian food yum sign me up!
Anyone know of a place in Manhattan with an authentic crab boil that I can take UPenn kids too?
It's 2008 after all, they shouldn't be thrown off by a little ethnic food. If you don't know how to tell the difference between a male and female blue crab, don't expect an offer. If you accidentally eat the devil fingers, you'll be paying for your own lunch.
25 for President
43 - I generally agree with your post, but Junoon and Amber s.u.c.k. Like some of the worst Indian food I've ever had (though I generally dislike attempts at "fusion" cuisine, as they both do). New Saffron and a few places in Sunnyvale are the places to go, but they're not interview-appropriate.
i ducked all the lunches but one for interviews, nothing to gain everything to lose
So let me get this straight, according to the DC lawyer: in order to show appreciation of the diversity of your candidates, avoid ethnic restaurants.
What an idiotic post. MILLIONS of people are vegetarian for religious reasons, including myself. Others are vegetarian for environmental, health, moral reasons, etc. I went on at least a dozen of these lunches and never had a problem though -- as long as it's not a steakhouse or seafood joint, veggies do fine.
To expect that I should simply accommodate and order a steak is laughable.
49: 43 here. I would be happy if associates were instructed not to take anyone to any fusion places for an interview lunch. That keeps Evvia on the list, and that would make me and other non-elitists non-snobs happy.
50 - "everything to lose"? wtf?!? you ever hear of a steak lunch! also after you have received you offer from firm of choice (if lucky enough) you then go out with the others just for the steak lunch!
how the mighty have fallen
Since you asked, a vegetarian would choose to eat a salad because ordering soup requires asking what's in it (and not necessarily getting an accurate answer from the waitstaff). If the other people at the table find it necessary to interrogate the candidate about what s/he's eating, or how little s/he's eating, it isn't the candidate who has used diet to get attention.
I can't imagine you'd suggest this about a candidate following a halal or kosher diet.
i hate evvia, but i thought tamarine is great.
43, etc. I was taken to Evvia 4 times last week...and each time, we ordered the calamari. #1 - that's not greek. #2 - I actually threw up the fourth time I went there...went into the bathroom and just barfed.
I'd rather they just take me to sprinkles. Yea, overpriced and snobby blah blah blah. Shut up.
51: Yes. Many ethnic foods are an acquired taste, and won't sit well with someone who is not used to them. Avoiding ethnic restaurants respects diversity of background. Or, should we limit hiring to kids from big cities and rich families?
And on a more general note, Japanese is usually a safe choice. Many place aren't just sushi, but also have options such as teriyaki, katsu, tempura, and noodle bowls.
Non-Ed Note. - This thread is retarded. And Capital Grille has LONG since ceased to be an excellent D.C. Steakhouse. Now it's pretty much one-notch above Cheesecake Factory.
56: Tamarine is so overrated. That's the problem.
As an associate you don't get to choose where the partner or client takes you (99% of the time it will be a steakhouse) and whining won't win you any points. Potential offerees should suck it up and enjoy the fact they're being wined and dined while it lasts. If they've never seen "ethnic" food before maybe they shouldn't be applying to work in a big city.
OH SHIT! This post is by Kash? LOL! FAIL!
At my interview lunch at a big firm for a call back, I told the recruiting coordinator I was vegetarian. The associates took me to Shaw's crab house. VEGETARIANS DON'T EAT FISH. It really put a damper on the interview, and I rejected their offer.
At my interview lunch at a big firm for a call back, I told the recruiting coordinator I was vegetarian. The associates took me to Shaw's crab house. VEGETARIANS DON'T EAT FISH. It really put a damper on the interview, and I rejected their offer.
Most firms still ask for dietary restrictions. As they should. If someone doesn't want to eat meat (for whatever reason), a firm should respect that.
If they don't ask about these things, it's going to be awkward for everyone: the interviewee feels bad for having attention drawn to his/her eating habits; the interviewers/lunch associates feel bad for making the interviewee's lunch miserable, etc.
Kash, what kind of veggie were you that (i) you're not anymore, and (ii) you didn't know that French onion soup is (nearly) never veggie? Oh, one of those "experiment while in college" veggies who probably ends up eating at least one of the following every day: chicken broth, gelatin, rennet, and beef base.
There are almost no restaurants where it's a problem. If all you can order is a salad and a few side dishes, just deal with it for interview lunches. As a note to non-veggie interviewers: Please don't make a big deal about it. It's either a personal decision or for religious reasons, and 99.9% of veggies, especially on interviews, don't want to spend 30 minutes discussing (or likely defending) a choice that doesn't affect you at all.
- Veg4Lyfe (and actually not annoying about it, in contrast to this post)
63: You don't eat fish? WTF? They're so tasty! Do you hate yourself or something?
But really, smart move rejecting their offer. If they can't wine and dine a student, they probably suck at seducing clients.
For all you religious vegetarians afraid of fish: just eat monkfish. I'm pretty sure they named it that for a reason...
I'm with Veg4Lyfe. Normally not annoying about it, and so: please, interviewers, don't ask about it. It's a personal choice that doesn't affect anyone else.
66: amen
The post started out well-written until your stupid fucking comments at the end. Believe it or not, people usually read blogs because the person writing them is either a good writer, witty, or has an interesting take on a common situation. You managed to avoid all three of those things, as does Elie on a near daily basis.
"meat tastes good" is a real compelling way to argue against vegetarianism... what is going on with this site! You guys just throw up any terrible verbal diarrhea that comes to mind without thinking up something interesting to say. Less is more with blogs. PLEASE.
45- Couldn't agree more.
Who gives a damn whats on the menu? If I take you to a restaurant you don't like, then tough luck. Just find something on the menu that you can live with and do your best to get me thinking of you as a serious candidate, not a whiney snob. Let it roll off your back and you will do fine. Ditto for when I get taken places that suck. I make do, and I make sure that whatever irrelevant issues arise are brushed aside quickly. That way the focus stays on the client/partner I am with.
I just finished all of my call-backs and noticed that a lot of the bigger firms (Winston, Jenner, Kirkland) have not offered the lunch interview as an option. It makes sense today because I'm sure they save tons of $$$ by not doing interview lunches.
Looking at it from that perspective, I just told myself I wouldn't work at those firms because they are either a) Cheap or b) struggling, neither of which I care for.
70 -- couldn't agree more. It was an interesting piece until Kash (who is otherwise usually entertaining) started blaming the vegetarians.
The more interesting issue is whether firms should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of diet. A vegetarian may be less useful for wining and dining clients and the next generation of interviewees. Same goes for non-drinkers.
Most meat eating, boozing lawyers are generally capable of sticking to a salad and iced tea if the need arises. This flexibility might make them more of an asset to the firm.
Easy solution to this problem folks:
Interviewees: If you have dietary restrictions -- religious, health-based, whatever -- tell the recruiter. It's his/her job to make sure that you are comfortable at your interview. As a Biglaw partner, I can tell you we aren't bringing people in to waste our money by making them uncomfortable at lunch.
Interviewers: Pick a restaurant with a diverse menu.
20: Don't assume that people interviewing you (1) know you're a Muslim; (2) know how observant you are; or (3) know that it's Ramadan. It's not rude to invite you to lunch. Nor is it rude for you to politely decline.
#21: I am a celiac as well. I can tell you it doesnt get any easier once youre an associate. Get used to explaining it to everyone...and some people more than once. And plan on bringing g-free food with you wherever you go. (Keep an Envirokids bar in your pocket at all times).
On a positive note, celiac awareness is proliferating and many people know of someone who has "that weird wheat allergy."
(Its also awkward when people go out for a beer after work and you order whiskey...but if they look at you like youre crazy, you can always blame it on celiacs).
As a vegetarian I can say that almost any restaurant will have at least something meatless and fishless. But a steakhouse is really not a good idea.
I bet Kash likes to eat meat.
Elie prefers sausage ("in bed")
63, wow, you would reject a firm based on where they took you to lunch. You totally sound like the type of associate others would like to work with. Hope you enjoy your smug attitude when you're working weekends and reviewing documents.
As a Biglaw partner, I know everything, and you're all idiots.
Kash, you're still the best. I hope you're not having too much fun with those second-stringers at NYU.
76- I was hoping you could clarify something for me. My GF is a celiac and was under the impression that her diet prohibited whiskey. Do you have a low sensitivity to gluten or is my GF mistaken? Thanks.
Career advice:
If you are a vegetarian or have other specific dietary limitations that you think may need to be addressed (strict Kosher, whatever), disreetly tell the admin handling the interview. They are usually savvy enough to discretely change the lunch reservations. I would lay off the discussions of lactose intolerance or IBS or whatever. No one wants a sick freak.
The ethnic food thing is trickier. Ok, so a theme restaurant based on Andrew Zimmer's "bizarrre foods" might be over the line, but if you expect a job at BigLaw you can't be so easily thrown by Indian or Thai or whatever. Big firms have clients from all over the world, and frankly I wouldn't want an associate (or a secretary for that matter) who was so easily put off by something unusual. (Side note: recently fired secretary referred to a Brazilian client as "the one who doesn't speak English" while client was on the phone) Its a business lunch, act appropriately in light of the circumstances.
Guys at my high school would have law firms take them out and feed them Rocky Mountain Oysters all the time, just so the firm could see how they reacted. It was only a big deal to the cows.
Montana Frat Stud
63=spoiled brat
vegetables=gay
i went to harvard
@70: FO&D. If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?
@74, 84: Right on. That's the way to handle the situation.
Under no circumstances do I want to work with some sanctimonious, fussy FIRST YEAR ASSOCIATE. You're all pretty much fungible. I'm not so mean that I'd knowingly take a vegetarian to a steakhouse (or otherwise not accommodate a candidate with issues), but it's also useful to see how a candidate deals with awkward social situations.
frontera in chicago .. it was awesome
75 is 100% right. The firm should ask if the SA interviewee has any dietary restrictions or preferences whenit schedules, but if they don't, then the candidate should communicate that they have some dietary restrictions. It's just NOT THAT HARD to do it and sound like a non-whiny adult. "John, we're happy to invite you to a callback and lunch on the 24th." "Great! I appreciate it. By the way, I'm a vegetarian, if you need to know for planning purposes."
And to 20, the Muslim student? You make it sound like the invitation to a callback is offensive. Um, if you didn't have a callback during Ramadan this year, you probably won't have much chance of a job. And, if you were travelling more than 80 miles, you CAN eat and make it up later. ALSO, you could simply say, "I'm really grateful for the callback interview, but can we reschedule until after October 1 or can we skip the lunch? I'm fasting."
I know a lot of working Muslims who don't fast during workdays, so I would not presume one way or the other. It's not my place to dictate how observant someone should be.
89 - let me guess . . . Foley? That is their typical lunch place. Yes, Frontera is awesome.
91 - Sidley
I was once scheduled to have morning coffee with an interview candidate who was a Mormon. That was awkward.
This is a good issue to discuss. My thoughts:
1. It is perfectly acceptable to tell the Recruiting staff that you are vegetarian - they should generally know what to do in terms of restaurant reservations. What really annoys us (and I really do mean most non-vegetarian lawyers) is a candidate who demands (or even hints strongly) that we order many vegetarian dishes in a family style restaurant, so that he/she "has something to eat". This is more of a problem with summer associates - I had two instances last summer where the vegetarian SA hinted strongly that half the family-style dished that we ordered should be vegetarian (the table had 3 associates and 3 SAs, of which only this SA was vegetarian). What do you expect the other five non-vegetarians to say when you ask "I am vegetarian, so can we get A FEW (out of 5) vegetarian dishes?"
2. While overly exotic ethnic cuisine should probably be avoided, in this day and age, I don't think it is unreasonable to be taken to a Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai or Indian restaurant. Such cuisine are becoming increasingly mainstream, and I would wonder about your suitability for law firm life if you can't handle a shrimp/vegetarian/chicken pad thai. My i-bank client has taken invited us for sushi and fusion Indian - we go, enjoy the meal and develop the relationship.
#83:
Whiskey (and essentially all liquor and wine) is gluten-free. Although wheat is a major component of many liquors, the distillation process removes the gluten. Malted beverages present the problem (beer & clear malt stuff) because of the barley. Some (mostly in Europe) claim that normal (non-wheat) beer is ok for celiacs despite the presence of malted barley, but most in the US disagree.
Short answer: liquor is fine for celiacs.
Capital grille has a ton of veggie sides. The guy who ordered the salad is just a weenie. He could have gotten the truffle fries, the asparagus, the creamed spinach, and a $7 salad. What's more -- I know that Capital Grille and all the other big steakhouses also have veggie platters for vegetarians. You can ask for it by saying - "I will have a veggie platter." They all do it.
88 is absolutely right. If you (the vegetarian junior person - interview candidate, SA or first year associate) are so greatly offended by having to order a salad at a steakhouse, I probably do not want to work with you.
I would never deliberately take a vegetarian to a steakhouse, but if it was accidental and we are already there, would it really kill you? Is a great vegetarian meal really what you are looking for during your callback?
I went through interview season last year and am also a vegetarian. Try interviewing at big Texas firms as a vegetarian!
It was fine. There were a lot of attorneys who liked other non-meat food. Also you can as 96 suggested ask for non meat plates made special. But it still doesnt get over the awkwardness.
I suggest just telling them.
94 -- What is the problem with ordering two vegetarian dishes and three meat dishes, to be shared by five or six people? Meat eaters won't get killed by eating a little bit of the veggies too.
I applaud firms for taking candidates to ethnic restaurants. If you're scared, call the interviewee the night before and ask if there are any dietary concerns. If not, feel free to get creative.
It kinda sucks doing multiple interviews in one city, going to the same restaurant every day for lunch, and awkwardly bumping into associates from the firm you just interviewed with the day before.
100 - It's not that big of a deal, we see people interviewing with other firms all the time (guys at my high school...)--we know the drill.
However, the real risk if/when you're interviewing as a lateral in the same city...
Kash to more meat.
Kash is a *reformed* vegetarian? I think I love her more than ever!! -UMB
Kash is a *reformed* vegetarian? I think I love her more than ever!! -UMB
At my callbacks we go to Churrascaria Plataforma for all you can eat Brazilian BBQ and open bar. The last to finish gets an offer. Vegetarians can overcome any meat related stigma by drinking a dozen caipirinhas and a serving tray of flan. We respect all candidates religious/dietary/ethnic preferences by hiring outside counsel to ensure that its ok to take some kids out for a free meal at a restaurant that serves a multitude of items.
Do litigators ever get taken out to lunch by clients?
If we're interested in criminal, should we get used to prison food if we schedule a "lunch meeting" with our clients?
I do not eat meat. It made my 2L interviews awkward.
One firm asked for dietary preference and I stated "Vegetarian." Good for them they booked lunch at a SEAFOOD restaurant with only Fish items.
I ordered a salad.
I must have been the cheapest date ever during my interviews.
45 is dead on!
Everyone should have common sense and manners. Hiring should have a list of diverse yet normal restaurants, including kosher. It's as rude to notice what others are eating as it is to elaborate upon what you yourself will/won't eat. The pressure should be on the firm to handle this appropriately, same as the firm should with a prospective client.
Those interviewees with major dietary restrictions can always do a non-lunch interview...
Query: Is there any disadvantage to skipping the lunch? Would like opinions on this.
108 - I don't think that there's a disadvantage to skipping the lunch. The way we do interviews (and the way 90% of my callbacks went), partner(s) go first, and the offer decision is nearly always made before the juniors/mids take the candidate to lunch. I wish I would have known this, as by the fourth or fifth sweaty interview lunch of the week (especially when the main topic of conversation was my vegetarianism) I was ready to run (though now as a very slow associate, I love 'em, and I get to choose where we go).
What 45 proposes is not always possible.
"The salad without the croutons, please. And was the fish baked with flour?" etc.
If it gets complicated you have two options: either you come across as a random picky eater (making a bad impression) or you explain that you have celiac disease and you try to preempt a half-hour discussion on that topic by answering briefly ("Yes, it's a bit of a hassle but you get used to it.") before smoothly moving to the next topic.
45 is close. Don't comment that the person eats healthy. Or un-healthy. Make silent observations in your head, but don't comment. It's rude and sounds judgmental.
Candidate: I'll have the ribeye, black and blue, with extra gravy, onion rings, and cheese fries. Hold the salad.
Interviewer: So, tell me more about how you decided to go to ABC Law School?
This is a ridiculously idiotic post.
And 11, it's because Kirkland is the devil. They treat their people really poorly.
Akin Gump gives you a Cosi gift card so you can get whatever you want.
Firms should not hire vegetarians. They cannot be trusted and are usually really "granola" and just looking for a year or two of a Biglaw salary before they joined Greenpeace or the ACLU.
Firms shouldn't hire whiners or people who can be psyched out by the restaurant, either.
I don't give a shit what you eat. Stuff your face with a juicy burger topped with bacon and sandwiched between two slices of veal. I don't care. Take me to a steak house. I don't care. I don't mind eating just a salad and bread rolls or other vegetarian options. Just shut the fuck up about it already. If I'm not making a big deal about it or lecturing you on what you eat, then drop the subject. It's just food.
Love,
Your firm vegetarian
P.S. I'm thinner than you, fatties.
P.P.S. Preemptive response: I'm cranky because you're stupid, not because I'm hungry
115: Sorry to break the news to you, but there are many foods other than meats that make one fat.
What's wrong with Evvia? I really liked it.
Also, most of the firms I interviewed with asked me about any food issues I may have. I don't have any, but it was nice of them to ask. And it's good practice in general; sure, it might not matter if they take a vegetarian summer associate to a steakhouse, but what if it's a vegetarian client? Or a gluten-intolerant client? Surely it's good to condition associates and partners to be aware of food preferences and to be polite about them?
I would think a former vegetarian would NEVER order french onion soup since it is made with a beef base. Credibility much?
>>"What do you expect the other five non-vegetarians to say when you ask "I am vegetarian, so can we get A FEW (out of 5) vegetarian dishes?""
That's because if you order one vegetarian dish, the meat-eaters will all eat it, too, leaving the vegetarian with about a half-ounce of food. Why don't you just stop going to family-style restaurants, which are usually mediocre anyway, and are only good if all of the people going like the same type of food?
I'm a vegetarian. I have friends who are vegetarians, have celiacs, food allergies (one girl friend has allergies to wheat, eggs, and peanuts), and kosher diets.
Usually, high-end steakhouses have vegetarian food - really, really good vegetarian food. It's the wanna-be places that only have salads and sides.
114: Hitler was vegan.
I completely disagree that the restaurant should be part of the challenge for the interviewer. Instead the challenge should be placed on the law firm to treat a recruit the way they would treat a potential client. Given the more globalized way of doing business today, clients are prone to have dietary restrictions, so it is much better practice for firms to find a way to do their due diligence. Such a shame for a firm to lose a qualified recruit or a potential client, because of their lack of cultural sensitivity.
Also, terrible work on the author's part for not doing his/her own research before publishing- the French Onion soup at Capital Grille is not vegetarian, but instead made with an extremely beefy broth. It is your opinion that no one wants to hire a martyr, but personally I would choose a martyr over an author who doesn't know how to do his/her research.
There's no shortage of stupid comments on here but one takes the gluten-free cake. 119, most family style restaurants are mediocre? Where does that come from? Over-broad much?
Not to inject ethnic food into this, which may frighten some of you, but about a billion Chinese would probably disagree.
French onion soup uses a beef broth you idiot.
I kept kosher for many years (only eating dairy and veggie in non-kosher restaurants), but I decided, in anticipation of big firm recruiting, that I would make some exceptions and go with the flow - if I was taken to a steakhouse, I would eat steak, etc. While I do not pretend that this was a decision that conforms to Jewish religious principles, I feel that I made the right decision for me - I am the kind of person who feels emasculated when limited to ordering a salad or fish in a restaurant setting where everyone else is eating gigantic steaks. During a recent lunch (read: interview), I appreciated my newfound ability to enjoy a good meal - I was less self-conscious about what I was eating, and this allowed me to focus more on conversation and to come across the sort of "jolly good fellow" that prospective colleagues might want to work with. Again, compromising religious tradition is not for everyone. But for me, conforming and feeling like "one of the guys" gave me more confidence (and I ended up receiving an offer).
Kash: kiss my vegetarian ass you beef eating whore.
Of course family style restaurants are mediocre. When multiple people have to share the same dish, that dish cannot be seasoned properly, lest ONE PERSON has a negative reaction. Think most wedding dinners.
#126 -- Nonsense. By your explanation no restaurant food could be good, because multiple guests can order the same dish off a menu, which means that it cannot be seasoned properly lest ONE OF THEM has a negative reaction.
I think french onion soup is generally made with beef broth.
http://www.marthastewart.com/recipe/best-french-onion-soup