This will be my last visit to ATL. I am now dumber for reading this.

The "stink"?

That aside, nickel and diming will be more comment in law firms for the next few years.

While we're on that subject, I am quite certain that K&L Gates management is considering rolling back the salaries of associates.

Be grateful that they aren't laying you off.

Cheers.

~In House Counsel

(no, we're not hiring)

The "stink"?

That aside, nickel and diming will be more common in law firms for the next few years.

While we're on that subject, I am quite certain that K&L Gates management is considering rolling back the salaries of associates.

Be grateful that they aren't laying you off.

Cheers.

~In House Counsel

(no, we're not hiring)

"never shouldn't have"? WTF does that mean?

I hope you don't think In House Counsel is immune from layoffs or cutbacks. If so you are seriously fooling yourself.

Layoff news is everywhere and you post on toilet paper? How you still have a job is beyond me

I think my biggest problem with Elie is the insistence on the "Elie's Take" at the end of every post. It's just annoying. WE GET IT. IT'S NOT COOL FOR LAW FIRMS TO BE CHEAP. YOU DON'T NEED TO SPELL IT OUT.

4-you are an arrogant prick.

"hoop of writing a earnest email "

mystttal strikes again!

It's not just being cheap...cutting back on costs illustrates that the firm has PROBLEMS

Elie, did you go to the firm for a comment (and verification) about this? The 401(k) change is deplorable

You're kidding me. While ABL was never hard news, it used to be a place to get a read on rumors - which sometimes are leading indicators. You've just jumped the shark and reached the level of Zero Value. Farewell.

Go to Dealbreaker, they've been posting legal news throughout this mess:

http://dealbreaker.com/2008/10/someones-regretting-those-3-am.php

K & L gates to fire 30 associates from NY office tomorrow.

K & L gates to fire 30 associates from NY office tomorrow.

MysTTTal has taken TTT to a whole new level.

15-16,

Tomorrow is Saturday. What gives?

Commenter TTTen:

"...why would any attorney jump through the hoop of writing an earnest email..."

what word would you recommend replace "hoop?"

if you're going to criticize Elie's writing (and opportunities are plentiful for doing so), please make an effort to focus on actual errors.

-not Elie

Goodbye ATL.

Some firms are requiring associates and staff to bring in their own pencils, notepads, and desks.

~In House Counsel,

You obviously take joy in your perceived security and in the present misfortune of some firms and their associates. Your smugness, however, overlooks the fact that industry consolidation usually accompanies/follows tough times, and with that comes RIFs of redundant cost centers (i.e., you).

You should not take so much pleasure in the misfortunes of others. You may find yourself in the same boat some day.

-A V10 IP litigator whose job is more secure than yours.

if k&l hired me as an 1L sa i wouldn't even require toilet paper. you guys are spoiled.

-nervous T-10 1L

Mystttal- please, for the love of God, go away. I was hoping that with a little practice, you would get the hang of this gig. But you just don't get it. We don't need you to cram your point down our throats. Sometimes less is more. See comment 8 above. And for crying out loud- you're a professional writer: edit your shit!

You're obviously not getting any better at this, so I think it's time for you to give some serious thought to chalking this up as a learning experience, cutting your losses, and landing elsewhere. Maybe you could be a traffic court lawyer. Or a westlaw rep. Or a garbage man. The key is that your next job should not require much thought or analysis or writing.

uhh, the 401K employer-contribution benefit went away over a year ago. there were multiple posts about it happening on this very site.

I have no complaints about the toilet paper.

As someone who ravages the latrines on a twice-daily basis, I offer my services only to those firms that provide sophisticated (but not snobby) toilet paper: two-ply, not too rough, but not effeminately soft either; I am no infant or golden retriever puppy to be babied...

TTTP

What's the deal with K&L's DC office? I've got a summer offer there.

Given that I work for a non-U.S. major oil company that is "just too big to fail," I would wager that my job is a lot more secure than anyone working in Biglaw, but enjoy your smug ripostes. There'll always be demand for me.

While you're in breadlines, I'll be helicoptering to the airport to exotic destinations.

It's going to be a long, nasty, and brutish recession if not depression. Buckle your belts, folks.

~In House Counsel

(No, we're not hiring.)

How about doing a thread about the debt levels at various law firms? Something that might be useful?

Other than the 401k shift, these are moves I applaud. Would you rather get canned or have your firm cut back on unnecessary expenditures? Toilet paper? Bar dues for local bar organizations? Take 'em away. I won't complain. (For the record, I don't work at this firm.)

29: Please bring 4 rolls of Charmin with you when reporting for dooty.

30, regardless of whether you keep your job or not, you will remain a miserable asshole. Have fun with that.

I steal toilet paper from my firm. So, yeah, I'd complain loudly and bitterly if my firm downgraded to two-ply.

The ABA is shady when it comes to getting new members. I constantly get invoices from them for membership dues, even though I've never joined (I just rip them up). I constantly get calls at my firm number asking me to join. I screen those calls (I've learned the number), so they try calling the main office number instead, but they don't identify the organization to the receptionist, so I have no way of knowing it's an ABA solicitation call.

And why bother paying? Even though I rip us the bills and ignore their phone solicitations, I keep getting "complimentary" renewals of my membership. I'm three years out of law school, and I think I'm still an ABA member, despite having never given them a dime.

And by the way, my old firm (V50) didn't cover the dues either. I'm not sure what the policy is at my new firm.

The ABA is shady when it comes to getting new members. I constantly get invoices from them for membership dues, even though I've never joined (I just rip them up). I constantly get calls at my firm number asking me to join. I screen those calls (I've learned the number), so they try calling the main office number instead, but they don't identify the organization to the receptionist, so I have no way of knowing it's an ABA solicitation call.

And why bother paying? Even though I rip us the bills and ignore their phone solicitations, I keep getting "complimentary" renewals of my membership. I'm three years out of law school, and I think I'm still an ABA member, despite having never given them a dime.

And by the way, my old firm (V50) didn't cover the dues either. I'm not sure what the policy is at my new firm.

This is one of the greatest stories ever. Sure, hearing about bigger bonuses or sweeping layoffs are great, but it's the little things that really tell you about a place.

I agree with 32. I applaud any firm's efforts to stay afloat and keep jobs in this economy even if it means I have to go without fluffy tp. Good for K&L.

Goodbye ATL. You are hereby removed from my bookmarks.

40, You removed ATL from your bookmarks by the act of posting that comment? I doubt it. "Hereby" does not mean what you think it means.

Please fire MysTTTal. I cannot read any additional posts written by him. He is a terrible writer. How he got through law school is beyond me.

19--"TTTen" here. Re-read my post: MysTTTal put "a earnest" and then later (I assume) read my post and changed it to "an earnest".

I wasn't commenting on his grammar, just his inability to proofread anything before posting it.

But I agree with 38--this is a good post. You can tell a lot about a place by the little things.

Some of you need to back off...a firm cutting back on spending and on associate benefits is legit news, worthy of a mention (not necessarily the tp, but 401(k), memberships etc).

That being said, Elie you really need to learn how to write and proofread.

Also, any comments from the firm about this?

Suck it, HaMystal.

Giuliani gunna be kickin yo ass soon enough.

401(k) issue is old news, and was discussed here: http://abovethelaw.com/2007/10/biglaw_reversed_perk_watch_the.php

and here: http://abovethelaw.com/2007/10/biglaw_reversed_perk_watch_kl.php

you know, comparing the comments in those posts to those apeparing here provides a good clue that fewer actual biglaw attorneys are contributing to ATL now. As you'll see from those old comments, many, if not most, large law firms do not match associate 401(k) contributions. I notice no one has said that here yet.

Also, the no debt thing is legit. Ask Heller if regrets carrying debt.

In-House Counsel: helicoptering, going to exotic locations? Seriously? I'm an attorney in Houston and represent some major companies, including oil. Now, perhaps your company does things differently, but I have never heard of the lawyers for Exxon, Shell, Chevron, BP, etc using the company helicopter. But, perhaps you're just that important. I'm sure it has happened at times, but it's not a regular perk.

problems for cravath now when it gets its ass wiped

46 raises a good point. My firm, V50, only makes contributions for staff, not attorneys. I thought this was fairly standard.

Elie- it's fine to report on these things, but the last paragraph where you accuse K&L Gates of being a greedy liar is false, unduly harsh and entirely overblown. Given that a large, respected law firm just folded and several other firms have undergone sizeable associate layoffs, your venting about toilet paper and bar association fees makes you out-of-touch and frankly insensitive to those who have lost jobs due to conditions completely outside of their control.

K&L Gates has taken care of its employees -- I don't recall any stories about layoffs, stealth or otherwise, coming out of your blog or anywhere else. Just because the firm cuts back on some costs during an economic downturn doesn't make its statements about growth during a downturn untrue, it just makes it a prudently-run business.

It's unfortunate that some niceties are thrown out, but the firm is merely controlling unnecessary costs in anticipation of worsening economic times. If that saves a few associate or staff jobs, then it's worth the rough TP, marginally smaller 401k contribution, and cutback on bar association memberships, which for many prove useless, despite good intentions.

K&L Gates poached some of Venable's top earners.

51--does that mean they got the slip-n-fall guys from Venable?

just kidding

I think K&L's thrift says something positive about the way they do business generally. It's not an accident that they're still securely afloat in this market. It's due in no small part to their cost-consciousness in everything from pay to (yes) toilet paper. Sure the downside is that in a bull market employee perks don't measure up to the V10. The upside, however, is that in a tumultuous market, employees get to stay at their desks.

Not saying that one philosophy is better on the whole than another. Just noting that K&L's philosophy is not without perks of its own.

-Associate at similarly "thrifty" firm

Damn. The ass at Cravath is going to be really chafed when everyone starts showing up with one ply to commence wiping. That's not going to sit well with Mr. Chesler.

This isn't K&L being cheap, it's the landlord. Most law firms don't buy the TP.

Elie : blogging : :Matt Millen : general managing

55 -

Thank you for the truly practical comment, which is entirely correct. Just goes to show how little one must know about the business of running a law firm to be EIC of this blog.

31, but that would imply Elie has some pull and managed to get a copy of citigroup's report on the firms and the status of the revenues, costs, and debt. And reporting the results might actually reveal to these snide law school readers that firms sometimes made fun of and deemed TTT are performing BETTER than many firms ranked higher on the Vault scale.

True true 55. Cravath has not bought TP in years as everyone knows Cravath does not wipe its own ass but has its ass wiped by all other firms and their TP.

Pride

Wow, Elie; this was incredibly poorly written.

Hey 30 -- you obviously have some serious issues in your life to be trolling this site for ways to demonstrate your perceived superiority. Maybe you're short. Maybe you were beat up regularly in high school. Who knows. But please, the U.S. economy is going to be just fine, thank you, and the vast majority of us are going to be keeping our jobs and will do very well. You, on the other hand, will continue to be a morally bankrupt asshole. The bad times will come to you as well, my friend, in more ways that one. Karma has a way of doing that. Remember, you heard it hear. Try to sleep well tonight. You are not safe.

I rather enjoy the frivolity of posts like this. Although it seems to me that Elie has failed to capitalize on any number of appropriate metaphors begged by this particular topic. (E.g., "K&L associates taking it in the ass"; "cost cuts proving abrasive at some firms"; "cost cuts in shitter may signal firm in shitter," etc. - not that these are any good, but you get the point.)

I think that some levity of this sort is needed, now more than ever.

I'm with 53. Right now, I'll take the job security even if it comes with some cuts on the edges. Salary + paying off loans/house/etc > > > having to pay your own org membership dues

A Nervous First Year

I'm with 53. Right now, I'll take the job security even if it comes with some cuts on the edges. Salary + paying off loans/house/etc > > > having to pay your own org membership dues

A Nervous First Year

I don't follow--how would chewing gum help alleviate the reek of a smelly restroom? It freshens the individual chewer's mouth, not their surroundings.

61,

You obviously have some serious inadequacies that you have failed to address in your life. I am I and you are you. The fact that you're jealous speaks more to yourself than me.

And, please, don't speak to me about the American economy. It's going down the tubes. Smart ones know that, and obviously, since you're trolling otherwise, you're not being very bright. But if you want to live in La-La land, be my guest. You'll just be one of many attorneys laid off the next year or two.

Take a look at the stock market post-1929, 1930. It was equally manic depressive then as it is now. We haven't reached bottom.

I entirely empathize about the treadmill that law firms have you on. You simply have no time to yourself. Perhaps having some free time then will give you some cause to reflect on your own personal inadequacies and failings.

~In House Counsel

At my friend's firm they don't even have toilet paper anymore just a towel sitting there that everyone has to use to wipe which is washed once a week.

All law firm bathrooms stink especially after a partners lunch.

66 is either not serious or an extraordinary douche bag on his 3rd miserable marriage...

LOL@"There'll always be demand for me."

That's right, 30--you are unique and irreplaceable. Without you, your firm would no doubt immediately fail, thus sending the entire global economy into an even more serious tailspin than it is currently experience. I think, perhaps, you are a God.

LOL@"There'll always be demand for me."

That's right, 30--you are unique and irreplaceable. Without you, your firm would no doubt immediately fail, thus sending the entire global economy into an even more serious tailspin than it is currently experiencing. I think, perhaps, you are a God.

Dear In-House Douche,

Please stop wasting taxpayers' bailout money on contemplative and inane blog posts and get your smug ass back to work.

Sincerely,

Taxpaying Readers of ATL

LOL@"There'll always be demand for me."

That's right, 30--you are unique and irreplaceable. Without you, your firm would no doubt immediately fail, thus sending the entire global economy into an even more serious tailspin than it is currently experiencing. I think, perhaps, you are a God.

In House Counsel sounds a lot like Joe the Plumber

Fourth marriage, actually.

And, yes, I'm a miserable bastard to work with.

~In House Counsel

30: Karma's a bitch. Beware.

I'm also gay.

~ In House Counsel

I thought it was the job of in house lawyers to wipe my ass. So, #30, are you or are you not going to wipe my ass with your tissues of sunshine?

UVA2L

Yes, I'm gay.

That's why I'm working on my fourth marriage!

Still can't face the fact that I'm gay.

~In House Counsel

What and no mention of K&L's labor pains with their splashy new Miami digs?

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202425326639

Yes, in fact, it's actually why my marriages failed. I finally came to terms with the fact

that I like men. I enjoy wearing high-heels and women's undergarments in my spare time.

~In House Counsel

Wow. Nice to see that I've attracted a fan club.

Who would have thought that so many attorneys would have so much time to post such vitriol?

Perhaps your managing partners should know that you're idle? Hmm?

I'm sure that we can find something else for you to do.

~In House Counsel

In House Consel for EIC

"Ohhh Mr. Pinchy. I'm so sad but your are just so delicious."

I'm including myself in my statement "Who would have thought that so many attorneys would have so much time to post such vitriol?"

~In House Counsel

82, congratulations, you've succeeded at being a troll. Give yourself a nice pat on your hunched back.

MysTTTal probably doesn't even wipe his ass with toliet paper after he is done.

He just takes what is left and smears it all over this website.

--Subtle T19 3L

How about a post on this:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h5P2f-dgLBCzuRdaaWR2BTYBb81AD93SBAJO0

I want to hear the conservaTTTives spew their hate on the voter registration process...

I place the blame squarely at the feet of Texas. Thanks a lot Texas for ruining all of this...everyone from Texas should take time out of their day to go and find a non-TTTexan and gingerly wipe their ass for them.

~In House Counsel is the funniest poster that's been on ATL in ages, and that includes you, Mystal.

This post reminds me of the time ATL blindly and wrongly railed against a firm for allowing a 4 day work week to cut down on employees' commuting costs.

I don't care about K&L Gates in particular. I have never even thought about working for them. But no firm should be flogged in public for making better business decisions. Elie's logic is flawed on so many levels. "The firm said it has no debt, but now it's not spending money!" Did it ever occur to Elie that the firm has no debt BECAUSE the firm has not been foolish about spending money on the small stuff?

When you are laid off, or threatened to be laid off, you'll be counting every single penny that you wish your firm had saved to preserve your job. All K&L Gates is saying here is that it wants to justify spending money when the returns on that expenditure have not been clear historically. How is that a bad business decision?

Ask any lawyer fearing for his / her job right now - I guarantee you those people are not worrying about 401K matches and bar dues at this point.

ATL praises people for coming clean when they lay off people, but never give firms credit when they do the right things to avoid layoffs in the first place. There's a difference between being prudent versus treating employees badly. Elie should take a course in financial management before raging against "the establishment." It makes Elie sound exactly like that Harvard Law Review idiot.

I used to work a top tier law firm that had severe bathroom issues. Nasty sewer gas smells were in the bathroom at all times, and often seeped out into the offices (bet clients loved that). Toilets would overflow of their own accord, gushing unspeakable horrors onto the floor and the adjacent hallways. The bathroom drain would gurgle and burp constantly. Urinals reeked of fetid piss, and the short-dicked lawyers would always dribble onto the floor to such an extent that small puddles would form in front of the urinals. There were too few toilets for the usage, meaning that by days end, toilets were covered in TP, dribbles of piss, and the remnants of ass-plosions. The TP was thin and tore easily. paper towels were strewn all over, including on a daily basis a pile that accrued in the sink itself (who the hell can't throw away a paper towel when they're done?). It was awful. I'd much rather lay off an associate or three if that meant the firm could spend money for a spotless, fresh-smelling bathroom that was cleaned every couple of hours instead of the unsanitary third-world conditions that we endured.

This is just the sort of post that ATL exists to post. Thank you for this. Not paying ABA dues is shameful and hopefully the firm with retract this once they see it spilled all over ATL. K&L is TTT

Do any large, prestigious firms (read: V30 or maybe V50) make 401(k) contributions? If so, which?

This would be very interesting information for 2Ls considering offers.

56: Brilliant.

"Ask any lawyer fearing for his / her job right now - I guarantee you those people are not worrying about 401K matches and bar dues at this point."

Agreed. What world are you living in, 93?

Texas lawyers enjoy rivers of raw sewage running through their houses and offices all the time. Its no big deal in Texas.

"Given that I work for a non-U.S. major oil company that is "just too big to fail," I would wager that my job is a lot more secure than anyone working in Biglaw, but enjoy your smug ripostes. There'll always be demand for me.

While you're in breadlines, I'll be helicoptering to the airport to exotic destinations.

It's going to be a long, nasty, and brutish recession if not depression. Buckle your belts, folks.

~In House Counsel

(No, we're not hiring.)"

***

OR...you're a first-year law student, and while we're in "breadlines," you'll be quaking at the thought of your Civ Pro final, and wondering if you bluebooked your 1L memo properly.

Based on your atrocious grammar, I'm willing to go with the latter.

At my firm they got rid of toilet paper altogether and put in a bidet and a hot air dryer. They say it's for the environment.

1. K&L did away with attorney (not staff) 401(k) matching contributions LAST YEAR.
2. #1 was reported here as noted by other commenters.
3. Note to law students: It is an extremely rare firm that provides matching 401(k) contributions, so K&L is no different than the vast majority of law firms.
4. K&L rents. Bathroom supplies are provided by building management.
5. Who cares about bar dues if you're not active? Why should the firm pay for that if they don't get a benefit?
6. In booming times, yes, it sucks to be in a "thrifty" firm, but right now I'm counting my lucky stars - I hope!

The K&L Gates partner washroom has wonderful pima cotton towels and ass wipers.

My ass wiper is a former CWT associate. I hope he was better at that than he is as a wiper. He's terrible. We're going to have to let him go.

Elie you are a moron. The reason why K & L is doing okay is most likely because they have cut back on "non-essentials." I just can't believe how many law firms/fortune 500 companies are still spending lavishly on unnecessary perks while at the same time cutting associates and asking the government for billion dollar loans. I would rather wipe my ass with cheap toilet paper than scratch my ass in the unemployment line. Good for you K & L.

100 = Win

Thanks for sifting through the garbage (original post and juvenile comments) to dig out the few shreds of real info here.

a firm tries to cut costs during a recession - and it's wet when it rains.

the idea that expenses shouldn't be considered for law firms (and other business) is one cause of our current economic malaise. people should applaud thrift, though demand it from partners as well.

Realistically, only the elite firms can really afford the perks like fancy TP and still pay 160k starting. An average V50-100 firm in DC billing out their first years at $250-300 can't afford to give the same perks as a V20 firm in DC billing them out at $400. So everyone should enjoy their 160k starting salaries and realize that it comes at a price of substandard TP.

Realistically, only the elite firms can really afford the perks like fancy TP and still pay 160k starting. An average V50-100 firm in DC billing out their first years at $250-300 can't afford to give the same perks as a V20 firm in DC billing them out at $400. So everyone should enjoy their 160k starting salaries and realize that it comes at a price of substandard TP.

98,

Nice try, but everything I've said is true. Not that you have to believe me.

But ask yourself this question -- why does it matter to you what I do? Are you really that afraid of the legal job market? Do you jump at every rumor of associate layoffs? Why do you feel the need to put down those who have made themselves into a success story? Are you really that insecure?

I hear there's a booming business in temp attorneys. Might want to look into that.

Cheers.

~In House Counsel

I love posts like this.

Then again, I have a very disturbing toilet paper fetish that has cost me many a job and friend.

K&L has been doing "stealth" layoffs all year. My understanding is it is about to get a lot worse.

It's $345 for each of us (in California), but it's a completely different order of magnitude when you're seeing it from the employer's perspective - and that's the point Mystal completely missed.

K&L Gates' web site says they have 1700 lawyers. Let's say 1200 are in the US, with an average of $300 in bar dues across the different states. That's $360K right there - more than two first-year associates' base salaries for an entire year. It's a no-brainer, if you ask me.

Keep in mind that K&L Gates is not saying that they won't pay - you just have to show a business case for it. That's how "normal" companies get funding for programs and initiatives. Keep in mind also that K&L Gates could have easily cut back pay if it wanted to, so it's not like they're cutting the most crucial and meaningful things. I worked for a company before law school that had such poor cash management, they ultimately took away the water coolers and asked us to drink out of the tap or bring our own.

I respected ATL when Lat exposed truly bad-faith business practices (such as unfairly branding laid-off folks as underperformers), but nowadays Mystal is just caustic and snarky just for the sake of being so, with no analytical thinking behind his ridiculous rants.

~In House Counsel,

You think you are recession proof because you work for an oil company???? Haha kiddo, you are either too young or too inexperienced (or both) to have seen a bust in the oil patch. They're not pretty, ask one of your bosses. BTW, last I saw, oil was down about 50% over the last few months and not trending your way.

And do you think the US recession/depression that you are eagerly forcasting will do to that? Seems like you are not using your head, kid.

And are you seriously trying to convince me that being in-house counsel is glamorous? Please. You can have Nigeria, the North Sea, Venezuela and Russia. Rio and Dubai are nice, but if I want to go, I take a few weeks off and give the Ritz a call. But I guess at in-house salaries, getting a helicopter ride to work is better than nothing, right?

We will not resolve whose job is more secure here. But what is resolved is that your smug satisfaction from the misfortunes of others means you are a little prick.

- V10 IP Litigator

Honest question -- I was an SA this summer, and too busy schmoozing to pay attention to ATL. Did the readers actually PICK Elie? if so, what happened?

So how much has K&L saved with their crusty, flaky TP? Undoubtedly enough to keep the firm from going under, but how much exactly?

Uhh . . . thank you for sharing your memories of your former firm's restroom with us, 92.

No debt (short or long term)+reports of just under $100M cash on hand+no losses of partners w/ books of business+addition of lateral partners w/ profitable books of business makes K&L just like Heller. It makes perfect sense to cut cost to save jobs... The economic downturn is a convenient excuse to make blunt instrument cuts.

On the bright side, K&L is very supportive of pro bono work (that is every hour of work exceeding 1,950 hours and for which you receive no additional compensation in terrms of bonuses.)

I don't think the toilet paper is any indication of the firms financial health. They are re-doing the Pittsburgh "home office" and have expanded rapidly with the appeal of the no-debt policy. The firm just announced that staff bonuses would be given "only in exceptional circumstances." Any K&L Gates associates know anything about their bonuses?

RE: 116: Bonus is discretionary in most departments at K&L Gates except in litigation. Most non-lit associates did not bill 1950 billable hours last year (not enough billable work). Only a few "exceptional" associates in each office were eligible for bonuses.

RE: 109: Yes! Steath layoff at K&L Gates has been on-going. Those who were asked to leave kept very quiet because they were too busy looking for new jobs.

Many partners left K&L Gates too.

The annual summer office/employee outing was cancelled.

117 is not from Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh, all bonuses, including litigation, are discretionary. Associates in Pittsburgh are waiting for the no bonus shoe to drop but so long as Reed Smith gives bonuses, K&L Gates will most likely follow their lead.

117 was talking about the east coast offices, specifically the one in the Hub.

Nickles and dimes indeed... this firm has cut off paying ABA and other professional association dues, will no longer pay for mandatory continuing legal education, and has even cancelled its holiday parties. Very interesting for a firm that continues to pat itself on the back for having no debt. My take is that the greedy partners are using the economic downturn as an excuse to be cheap at the expense of their associates. They know that associates' options are limited right now. It will come back to haunt them in the long run.

Nickles and dimes indeed... this firm has cut off paying ABA and other professional association dues, will no longer pay for mandatory continuing legal education, and has even cancelled its holiday parties. Very interesting for a firm that continues to pat itself on the back for having no debt. My take is that the greedy partners are using the economic downturn as an excuse to be cheap at the expense of their associates. They know that associates' options are limited right now. It will come back to haunt them in the long run.

Look for another merger in early 2009. The cost cutting and increasing cash reserves seems like a great way to finance a merger without turning to debt. Chicago is a gap in the K&L Gates empire and the Chicago market has proven to be difficult to penetrate when the economy was booming. Time to buy on the cheap.

120/121 - Of course, when a firm shows sign of being cash-strapped, everybody will jump on the bandwagon and rant about how the firm kept on paying dues and CLE credits that didn't translate into business, and how the firm totally wasted $500,000 on the Christmas party at the swankiest hotel in town.

I agree with your suggestion that they should cut back partners' perks too, and shame on them if they do not, but there is nothing wrong with cutting expenses that do not come with a strong business justification. Of course, people are going to say that employee morale is a business justification. Fine - I buy that - but I'd much rather pay my own dues and courses, skip the obligatory Christmas schmoozing, and continue seeing my paychecks show up in my bank account after the party's over.

Agree with 120/121. K&L is a cheap firm indeed.

Agree with 120/121. K&L is a cheap firm indeed.

I like working at K&L so much that I probably wouldn't care if any of the rubbish printed above was true. Yes partners and associates come and go at the firm - but they do similarly at all large firms. The firm has certainly hired massively more partners than the number that have left in recent months. There is nothing wrong with the toilet paper. And, I might add, I have been pleasantly surprised by the various dues and fees that the Firm does reimburse. Sure, the firm isn't throwing money away, but we have everything we need to do our jobs and to be comfortable while we do them.

I don't understand the point of picking on a firm that is surviving and doing okay at this time just because one bitter employee posted some crazy nonsense about toilet paper without even doing any research into it.

For any law students - there are bitter people everywhere. Don't listen to them - whether they're talking about K&L or some other firm. Firms are businesses and they have to make sound business decisions during ecomonic downturns.

What is the point of throwing money away on bar association memberships that people never ever use. If I want to be a member of something because I am actuvely involved, I have no problem writing to the appropriate person and asking that the dues be paid. And in my experience, I haven't yet been refused anything that I asked for.

I like working at K&L so much that I probably wouldn't care if any of the rubbish printed above was true. Yes partners and associates come and go at the firm - but they do similarly at all large firms. The firm has certainly hired massively more partners than the number that have left in recent months. There is nothing wrong with the toilet paper. And, I might add, I have been pleasantly surprised by the various dues and fees that the Firm does reimburse. Sure, the firm isn't throwing money away, but we have everything we need to do our jobs and to be comfortable while we do them.

I don't understand the point of picking on a firm that is surviving and doing okay at this time just because one bitter employee posted some crazy nonsense about toilet paper without even doing any research into it.

For any law students - there are bitter people everywhere. Don't listen to them - whether they're talking about K&L or some other firm. Firms are businesses and they have to make sound business decisions during ecomonic downturns.

What is the point of throwing money away on bar association memberships that people never ever use. If I want to be a member of something because I am actuvely involved, I have no problem writing to the appropriate person and asking that the dues be paid. And in my experience, I haven't yet been refused anything that I asked for.