GO BLUE!

Everybody know that UVA and UMich >>> HLS

Well, being the one Michigan law student still seeking a post-graduate job, this is helpful.

Yay Michigan!

Actually, students at TTT schools are most competitive because only the top 5% get real jobs.

Elie, competitive does not necessarily mean they are the most qualified and highest credentialed; it can also mean they are the most likely to fight among their classmates for the top.

While a complete joke, you are a complete douche bag for writing like you did. You embody what everyone should despise

I chose BC over GULC when I was applying, but I would never have taken it over the T10.

1. Aren't there 200 law schools?
2. The people who get a 147 on the LSAT are those who probably have to read a 5-page case 7 times over the course of 8 hours in order to have a modicum of understanding of what it says. That's probably why Cornell and Chicago aren't on the list.

Elie, could you be any more of an elitist snob?

"I dare somebody to get into Boston College and Yale and go to Boston College because they think that is a better career move."

It took me a few re-reads to understand what Elie was trying to say.

Hey somebody (Elie?) post the "toughest to get into" cat

Yale has the best career prospects bar none. Kids at Yale are too prestigious to respond to the stupid surveys. Harvard is a TTT for actually appearing on the crap rankings.

Mystal, you've once again shown yourself to be a buffoon extraordinaire. TTT students are known to be hyper-competitive. You know, the more petty the stakes - the more bitter the fighting (or something like that).

will the fact that i attend the number 1 school in these rankings help my 1L job search?

-nervous T-10 1L

btw, of course lower ranked schools will have more competitive students elie...most competitive =/ highest numbers. why be competitive at a top 10 school? (other than to get that 1L job!!!)

Elie, of course the "worse" schools are more competitive because only the top students get jobs and therefore, the students "compete" with one another. Do you not understand that the word "competitive" has multiple meanings?

Career prospects out of Yale suck.

Sincerely,

Clarence Thomas

#12, did you get a 147 on the LSAT?

Nervous T-10 1L *has* to be a flame, right??? My logical side tells me yes, but there are enough insane 1Ls out there...

I'm impressed that UPenn State made it on the best career prospects list. I wonder if the ranking takes into account the efficiency provided by in-state tuition to qualifying students.

I got into GULC but dinged by UCONN so this list may not be all wrong.

Elie, your analysis of the most competitive students list is shallow. Think about it - the kids at these schools are in a cut-throat competition to get in the top 10% because that is their only way to get big-law type offers. Hell, looking at that list, you probably have to be no. 1 at some of those schools to even be considered. The bottom half of those classes struggle for months after graduation to find $50/k a year jobs. With tons of debt, you DON'T want to be in that bottom half.

Students from T14 schools don't have to compete like that.

Yale has the best career prospects bar none. Kids at Yale are too prestigious to respond to the stupid surveys. Harvard is a TTT for actually appearing on the crap rankings.

20 - i'm most assuredly not flame. i can answer any identifying questions about my school (we had westlaw coffee today in front of hh100). what have i said that's so crazy? i just have a strong desire to get a 1L sa and make the big bucks this summer, thought i would let people share in my journey.

-nervous T-10 1L

a survey of students trying to convince themselves that they made the right choice going to law school, says that they feel that they have good job prospects.

im shocked

I went to Yale, and no one seems to want to hire me. They just protest.

Sincerely,

John Yoo

I'm sorry Elie, but in writing this post, you have shown you have no idea what grading and competition is like at lower ranked schools. As an attorney in Texas working at a biglaw firm, I can assure you that Baylor is one of the most competitive schools in the county (I'm not an alum, by the way). Not from an admissions standpoint, but from a grading standpoint. It is extremely difficult to get good grades at Baylor (and you obviously know nothing about the required practice court). Having been to both a lower ranked school (not Baylor) and a much higher ranked one, my experience was that it was much more difficult to get good grades in the lower ranked school (and, by the way, at the higher ranked school I was in the top 15%).

I'm usually fine with the elitist TTT crap that gets spewed about in the comments, but to insult a school that you know nothing about is just obnoxious.

I'm sorry Elie, but in writing this post, you have shown you have no idea what grading and competition is like at lower ranked schools. As an attorney in Texas working at a biglaw firm, I can assure you that Baylor is one of the most competitive schools in the county (I'm not an alum, by the way). Not from an admissions standpoint, but from a grading standpoint. It is extremely difficult to get good grades at Baylor (and you obviously know nothing about the required practice court). Having been to both a lower ranked school (not Baylor) and a much higher ranked one, my experience was that it was much more difficult to get good grades in the lower ranked school (and, by the way, at the higher ranked school I was in the top 15%).

I'm usually fine with the elitist TTT crap that gets spewed about in the comments, but to insult a school that you know nothing about is just obnoxious.

Are these rankings a joke? Where the hell is Hofstra? Basically, if you are interested in law school and you want to live near the only city that matters in this country, please read the following rankings and disregard this Princeton Review garbage.

http://abovethelaw.com/community/2008/05/top-nyc-area-law-schools.php

Michigan = TTT

I chose BC over Yale. Then again, I also think Palin won the debate so I'm pretty much a full-on retard.

someone post the QoL list

Nervous 1-L,

"I just have a strong desire to get a 1L sa and make the big bucks this summer"

Sorry pal. In this economy, you won't.

Get a job bouncing at Rick's, do some damage to your liver, and enjoy one of your last summers of freedom.

-fellow UMich grad

I'm a BC student. I have no delusions about BC being better than Yale, but I do agree that it should have some recognition for this: it's ridiculous how well we do in recruiting season considering that we're way outside the t14.

Don't knock UConn and the public schools. You've all heard the argument before about how kids who go to good public schools like Michigan, Virginia and Connecticut are much smarter than those who go to top-tier (other than top-5) schools. Its about value baby!

Pennsylvania-based who? Princeton Review is headquartered in NY, regardless of where it's incorporated and I strongly suspect Delaware.

30 -- Welcome back. I'm Hofstra summa!

HLS rules! Suck it, T10!

So what if I got 2.8 GPA undergrad and 148 LSAT?

When were these rankings compiled?! I'm checking for my school and it looks like the average LSAT, GPA, and after-graduation-income are at least two years old.

30 & 38: Take an IQ test. You might be borderline retarded if the best law school you could get into is Hofstra.

GULC rules!

Friends don't let friends go to GULC.

- UCONN 1L

Hey Nervous 1L, it's 20 - sorry I was skeptical! I'm a top-10 2L, and getting a firm job 1L is a nice monetary perk, but not at all needed to get a good firm job later on. In fact, we'll probably be stuck at firms for a good chunk of our careers, so might as well try something interesting for 1L. It's a chance to go international, work in-house, work for a judge, do public interest, etc etc -- all opportunities you may never have again. So don't worry about firm stuff until August after your 1L year! HTH!

hey 36, UVA and Mich cost about 37k/yr in state. nice try though. Even Boalt will be going up to that next year.

I agree with 31 completely. Oh, and, by the way, 42 is a guidance counselor at GULC.

where's Chicago-Kent and NYLS on the list? Oh, I forgot, those people don't get jobs as attorneys or anything else. What a scam!!!!!!!!!!!1

42 - i'm definitely going to try for a 1L firm job because i need the money but if i don't get anything i won't be too upset. i figure if some firm will pay me 3k/week to dink around for a summer why not do that? thanks for the advice though, i should try and keep things in perspective (which is hard at law school).

*hustles back to nalpdirectory.com*

-nervous T-10 1L

These rankings are a joke. Why isn't Charlotte School of Law included in the "Best Career Prospects" category? CSL summer associates routinely outperform their Duke and UVA counterparts in biglaw.

I also agree with 29 even more. For the record, 42 is still a guidance counselor.

40 is right.

You enrolled in a $3000 PR class and still got a 154 on the LSAT? Fortunately, the crappy law schools you can get into are better than Harvard!

nervous 1L,

My two-step method to a post-1L SA position (in NYC on the 160K scale):

1. don't waste all my time on ATL
2. spend 70 hours a week studying

Then when you're a 2L & 3L, you can spend 15 hours/week on school stuff and you're still golden b/c you're at the top of your class.

You're welcome.

Best,

2d tier student

Hey 47 - read your post again and just think about it.

I went to Yale for undergrad and did so well there that I was admitted into Boston College Law School. Does that count for your challenge?

But no need to send the promised money...I married into more than I can ever spend.

-John Kerry

42 here - lol i assure you i'm not a guidance counselor, although looking back i guess my post was kinda cheesy... all i'm saying is that a firm salary shouldn't be your only motive for a 1L job, especially if you have the opportunity to do something much cooler

Yes, as a graduate of the uber-competitive Syracuse Law School, the above rankings are proof that I really do have a much higher IQ than all of you!

-Joe Biden

Princeton Review Ranking = TTT

Any ranking with Penn State in top 10 is TTT.

Elie,

You are a moron.

Competitive student body is a category approximating how competitive the student body is with each other.

Baylor was ranked in an academic study as the school whose students spent the most time studying per day. (I'm not saying that means they are smarter, or better lawyers, or dumber, or anything, it just is what it is.)

There is a reason Baylor Law School is known as the place:

"Where Fun Goes To Die."

Nervous T-10 1L,

If you want to share, write your own blog. Don't put annoying comments here.

Signed,

The Rest of Us

58: But, it's fun to observe people with obvious neuroses...

How does one spend 70 hours a week studying? I'm a 1L at one of the schools in the aforementioned list, and I haven't had more than a few hours each night. Granted, I don't brief, but I think that all of these hours are counter-productive.

Get the holding and be prepared for class discussion, but more is overkill.

Nervous Michigan... I mean T-10 1L,

Who are you? I am ashamed that you go to my school. You are annoying.

Sincerely,
1L who had an SA job without whining and begging for information

57, technically the University of Chicago is the first place to be known as "the place where fun goes to die."

"There is a reason Baylor Law School is known as the place:

"Where Fun Goes To Die.""

Could have something to do wih being (a) in Waco and (b) being on a campus that banned dancing until 1996, rather than just the study habits of teh students.

And Columbia is ranked...what?

60,

My bad. 70 hours a week for the month before finals.

51

Haha. Nervous T-10 1L has to be one of the best executed performances I've seen on here since HofstraMagna. How can so many of you guys think this person is legit?

Awesome post, Elie.

Formula for pre-law undergrads

1. Get a bachelor's and master's in engineering
1a. For you worthless econ/poli sci/government/psych/other bullshit LAS majors, drop out of law school, get a second degree in engineering
2. Go to top 30 public school on full tuition scholarship
3. Stay in the top half of your class
4. Tell firms you love patent law
4a. Laugh at those actually competing for jobs
5. Profit

Elie - you are an elitist piece of shit and your head is shaped like a potato. Oh, and the folds in your chins are shaped like vaginas.

Elie, can we do a Worst ATL Contributor Poll!? Please!!!

Please, more articles about competition written by affirmative-action poster children. The unintentional comedy is outstanding.

60 - the next 1L in the bottom of the class that gets passed over in OCI.

- 3L T3 that still briefs cases

Formula for life:

1. Do exactly what your parents tell you. Always.

2. Question nothing.

3. Please everyone.

4. Read Maxim.

5. Work out every morning.

6. Make as much money as you can.

7. Marry the best looking woman willing to marry you.

8. Have kids.

9. Tell them to live their lives exactly as you did.

10. Die. Fulfilled. Content.

On the one hand I think that Elie is a fat fuck racist elitist pignose with no talent and an embarrassing lack of sensitivity about his appearance. On the other hand, Kash is king, in a post op tranny sort of way.

I just want to say, we all know that Yale is harder to get into and more "prestigious" than BC, BU etc, but maybe the reason it isn't on the career prospects top 10 is because a lot of the best grads from Yale don't go into the sort of Biglaw jobs that grads from the other schools do and often take academic or judicial jobs. Obviously these are also good career prospects, but I think it would be worth looking at what the Princeton Review uses as criteria before you mock the survey. Maybe the POINT of the rankings is to highlight weaknesses and strengths of schools that aren't directly related to entering students' average LSAT score.

And to echo those above, I would imagine that students at lower ranked schools who have to fight to be in the top 10% or so ARE more competitive with one another. I'm pretty sure at HYS, you just have to show up to get a decent job after graduation.

This blog has really degenerated into a pathetic reflection of the legal world. I think we are all aware that some law schools and firms are "better" than others. There is a huge difference between making qualitative comparisons between schools or firms and stupidly assuming that having HYS or Wachtell on your resume makes you a worthwhile human being. Why can't this blog be about actual legal issues without disparaging firms, schools, and people with the "TTT" label.

A lot of really interesting things are happening in the legal, financial, and political world right now and somehow the best you can do is to post this garbage accompanied with some sad attempts at humor. I'd expect the obnoxious, petty, and elitist comments from site posters. Elie, you just look like a GIANT (and ignorant) DOUCHE for pandering to those who delight in such nonsense.

[Now I'll take bets on how long it takes one of you morons to respond with TTT or suggest I am jealous of your job or law school]

72 - the next to be laid off because (s)he does all sorts of unnecessary work, taking twice as long to do all of the projects (s)he is assigned as anyone else.

I enjoy laughing at people who, despite their best efforts, will never be smart enough to make it into a good law school. Throw rocks at them.

Elie is a fat idiot

Hell yeah 75. Hofstra, like Yale, places many graduates in judicial clerkships, and so that pulls it down in the flawed Princeton Review Rankings. Just last week, I heard a story about a guy from Hofstra who landed a clerkship in NJ Superior Court, Traffic Division. Maybe it's not the SCOTUS, but that's still a pretty good job and the people on here who think otherwise are just stupid haters.

Nervous T-10 1L:

Confident same T-10 2L here. I am willing to impart upon you the knowledge you require to successfully land a 1L SA gig. I have only one precondition. Tomorrow at exactly 6:45 PM, enter the large men's room in the SW corner of the basement level of HH. Proceed past the long row of urinals and around the corner to the dumpy toilet stalls. I will be waiting in the handicapped stall. Cough politely and knock exactly twice on the stall door and I will allow you in. You will remove your underwear to expose erect penis. We will then approach one another while facing each other. We will apply a condom to each penis. We will then rub our penises together and use hands or a docking sleeve to increase friction. It is possible I will wish to rub my penis against your thighs, buttocks or belly. Eventually I will tell you to kneel, at which point I will remove my condom and ejaculate on your face. While you are washing off my rancid jism in one of the the 1960s-era sinks I will impart to you all you need to knew regarding landing a 1L SA position.

I look forward to meeting with you soon.

Unrelated question: do you think I should go to Arnold and Porter or to Cadwalader?

What about University of MD?

Why is Elie constantly trolling against UMich? It's probably been mentioned on here more times in the last month than most schools are in a year.

Hey Elie,
I went to UConn Law and they taught me well enough to know that your grammar sucks a fat one!

60 - Stellar approach. And on exams this winter, you should cut straight to the conclusion. Don't waste all that time and space on that silly "analysis" mumbo jumbo. The profs will reward you for your brevity.

80 FTW!!!!!!!!!

We have better looking girls than all those places.

BLS 1L

NU is underrated.

I must say, the God's signature line was really funny. This post is hilarious.

Guaranteed every few years at least one person turns down Yale or Harvard for a full ride at BU or BC. Get over yourself.

Elie,
Everything you post on here makes me more likely to read WSJ Law Blog and AmLaw Daily. If you are going to constantly editorialize, at least provide some analysis. Throwing around smug phrases like "Wow" and "laughable" does not constitute analyis.

Elie,
Everything you post on here makes me more likely to read WSJ Law Blog and AmLaw Daily. If you are going to constantly editorialize, at least provide some analysis. Throwing around smug phrases like "wow" and "laughable" does not constitute analyis.

21 and 56: its not Penn State's law school (Dickinson), its UPenn.

80 leaves me feeling icky.

Hardest to get into:
1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Stanford
4. Boalt
5. Penn
6. Columbia
7. U of Conn
8.Northwestern
9. Chicago
10. Michigan

Elie, this is your best thread ever.

"I dare somebody to get into Boston College and Yale and go to Boston College because they think that is a better career move. Send ATL both acceptance letters and a BC transcript, and we'll send you $100 and a photograph signed by God."

I will probably go back and read this once a day for a week, and laugh my T14 a$$ off.

Solid work, Elie. And I say that as someone who's often quite critical.

Hey 12 - did you get a 147 on the LSAT?

you are a pretentious a-hole, elie. seriously, this post makes you look like a real tool.

GO RAYS!

I turned down Berkeley, Mich, UVa, NYU, Cornell, & Penn for a full ride at BC. Was wait-listed at Stanford & Harvard. Did not get into Yale, Chicago, or Columbia. Did not apply to NU (interviews) or GULC (degree factory). Curiously, did not get into Texas.

Graduate cum laude from BC; no journal. Now work at BigLaw in NYC, debt free. I've been at this a little over three years now. It's very liberating to know I can leave at any time, as I have no debt and a decent amount of savings. (As an aside, yes, there were a lot of 'tards at BC, but there are just as many 'tards at my firm who went to top 10 or 5 schools. Getting into/going to a good law school does not make one a good attorney. Nor, apparently, a good writer, as Elie shows us daily).

why so much hate for me? sorry i annoy so many people, i guess you have to step on a few toes on your way to a 1L sa position. ;)

thanks 80, that was very homo-erotic of you...but i prefer to use the bathrooms in the hallway by the snack bar.

*goes back to reading about the rule against perpetuities while dreaming about a 1L summer at cravath*

-nervous T-10 1L

62, you obviously never spent a scintillating Doc Films evening at Ida Noyes ...

W00t!

100 -- You are the awesomest person ever. Thank you so much for impressing us all with your super-cool tale of how great you are. That said, I may not be debt free, but I once "hooked up" with HOPE WINTERS during "Operation Pantsdown." Curiously, the next morning, I awoke, turned my head to the pillow next to me, and was staring face-to-face with Elie Mystal!!!! Needless to say, I went to GULC.

62, you obviously never spent a scintillating Doc Films evening at Ida Noyes ...

W00t!

I burst out laughing upon reading this one! haha! I totally will take you up on the BC Yale bet and will add a kidney or six!

Btw: http://justmarvy.blogspot.com/2008/10/in-defense-of-marriage_06.html

104 -- Thank you for making my night.

-Joey Regenstein

I don't think Michigan is the best law school in the country, but Michigan grads do very well in many markets. Unlike some schools, Michigan sends its grads to multiple large markets. The fact that Michigan is a very large law school also helps. More students = more alumni connections later. Also, the University of Michigan is huge so even partners or employers that went there for undergrad are still going to feel a connection to Michigan Law grads.

Maybe the reason that University of Michigan, Northwestern, and University of Chicago are ranked so high (in addition to being great schools) is location. It seems like it is easier to find jobs in the midwest right now than on the coasts.

Elie...god forbid that Harvard is not number one on every list ever associated with law school rankings. If I didn't have some good friends who went to Harvard, I would rank Harvard number one at 1. School Producing Most Elitist and Biggest Douchebags. But you've been saved from that by well-grounded colleagues. This, of course, still doesn't save you from being Number One Law Blogging Douchebag. Wait, that's not fair, nervous T10 1L takes that crown, but you're right in his ass at number 2. All types of puns and inappropriate thoughts intended.

I like this post. Well done captain Elie

Whoa! Sensible response by 107.

Nervous 1L:
You're not getting a 1L SA or a 2L SA because you're a douche bag. No one wants to work with douche bags.

Thank God, a sign of sanity in crazy times. Thanks, Elie, for once again reminding all of these worthless proletariat punks of their proper places in the world. This is the ATL I know and love!

109 - to be fair, i'm just a stupid 1L and don't run a blog.

-nervous T-10 1L

Good post.

But watch out, you promise $100 for a BC transcript and a Yale acceptance letter, but you don't demand that the transcript actually belong to someone who got into yale.

I can't speak from experience, because I only went to one law school and not all of them. I guess that makes me not qualified to comment on a system that ranks every law school out there. I will tell you that Baylor sweeps trial competitions on a yearly basis. And by sweep, I mean basically crushes the teams that every other school fields.

They should just start entering the courtrooms playing the song "Swagga Like Us."
I can hear it now, and I wish I were on a team that was that great.

Elie,

PLEAsE post your LSAT score and UGPA. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to see if you really deserved to get into Harvard. POST IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elie,

PLEAsE post your LSAT score and UGPA. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to see if you really deserved to get into Harvard. POST IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elie,

PLEAsE post your LSAT score and UGPA. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to see if you really deserved to get into Harvard. POST IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But you have to live in Michigan for 3 years. Not worth it.

Few questions:

1) Is the post about Hofstra being the no.3 NYC law school a flame? My asking if its a flame is not a flame itself. I just don't get it. Fordham is absolutely the 3rd best NYC law school. Its not even arguable. I almost went there but I got off waitlist at T10. Fordham is a good school period. HOFTTTstra is not. Sorry.

2) Lulz at UCONN. I didn't even know they have a law school. I actually did because one good law firm has a couple of UCONN partners but other than that, when I hear UCONN I think basketball, not law school and definitely not a law school thats hard to get into.

93: You are confused. Penn state has specific names for its schools (i.e., Dickinson for the law school, Whardon for the business school). Not a bad showing on this poll for a state school though. Go Nitany Lions!

I can't believe that the University of Michigan State is #1!!! Go Spartens!!

Didn't Vault come out with rankings similar to these? I remember seeing U-Mich ranked pretty high, but I'm too busy (read: drunk and lazy) to google Vault's rankings.

Elie, jesteś glupi muzyn i tłuszczu stosie kał. Jest oczywiste, ze zdjęcia, że jesteś typem człowieka, który molests dzieci.

On MOLESTUJE dzieci, kutafonie.

God damn you, Elie, for making law out to be such an elitist profession. Not everyone can go to a T14 school.

-3L at FCU (#11)

100, you turned down NYU for BC? I call extreme bullshit.

Princeton Review = TTT. Who puts Boston College on an elite law school list? What a joke.

BU is number 10 for career prospects??? I go to BU law, easily in the top 20% class rank, and can't get a job despite trying as if my life depended on it. SUCKS TO BU that school blows

"YLS was not considered, as we recently discovered that school doesn't have grades!"

I got into BU but went to Cardozo.
Went for the scholarship, stayed for the Jew jokes.

Hope that media control thing pans out in the job sector.

stop crying and go read your casebooks

hahahaha... this is such BS

I got a post-1L SA position. In hindsight, I regret taking the job. I wish I had done something cooler / more chill during my first summer.

What is the standard for "career prospects"?? Absolutely no way BU is top 10. No way Harvard and Stanford aren't ranked higher. And where is Columbia? I didn't go to any of these "top 10 schools" but I do work in biglaw and this list is bs. I think I've maybe met one BU grad in a biglaw firm and maybe two BC grads.

Agree with 56. Any poll with University of Penn State in the top 10 is TTT! How can anyone admit Penn St. is top 10 for career prospects?!

As a current 2L at Baylor Law, I agree with most of the comments made above.
1) We're in Waco. Yes, the city is as bad as you might think, but that is part of the appeal. You don't have many distractions so you spend time at the library.
2) The School encourages us to compete against one another. For example, all 1Ls must compete in moot court competitions. Students are trained for the real world, where most people don't care if you're friends. I admit this strategy doesn't encourage academic inquiry and makes us "boot camp cadets" trained to listen to our drill sergeants. But, it does help prepare you for the real world.
3) We are a small school- its basically high school considering you know everybody else and know everybody else's business. This naturally leads to more competition as opposed to facing off against 200 faceless individuals.

I agree that it is laughable to believe that Baylor is the most "competitive" law school in the country and the students don't help this perception by buying into it- especially by wearing self deprecating t-shirts. But, I think the survey is a non-scientific attempt to figure out which student bodies worry the most about the grades. To give you an idea how much we worry- I have to be one of the top 7 students to be in my top 10%.

Baylor has a law school????

If you knew anything about the Texas job market, Elie, you would know that Texas firms/offices prize Texas talent over anything else, so Baylor and SMU students get top billing with those firms, since they are about the best thing in the world after UT, as far as Texas people are concerned. I'd put money down that TX partners would hire a UT grad over a Harvard grad with similar qualifications in a stitch.

Similarly, St. Thomas is the school were all mediocre Miamians (which is most Miamians) aspire to go to when they get rejected by UF, FSU, FIU, UM, etc.

Research. Then, type.

131 - BU = Cardozo = failed at life

"You've all heard the argument before about how kids who go to good public schools like Michigan, Virginia and Connecticut..."

36 - no one in history has ever put Michigan, Virginia and UCONN in the same class. Wow. That was like watching the moon landing. Truly historic.

129, You must suck at interviewing. I was only magna at BU and ended up having my choice of Wilmer, Ropes and Goodwin. (Went with Ropes).

Don't blame the school. It's you.

It's true that in Texas, unlike in the legal markets in NYC and DC, TTT students can get biglaw jobs and are "prized." It's shocking but Texas offices would rather hire someone from SMU or Baylor than a mediocre student from many top schools.

142: Magna at BU = Wilmer, Ropes, or Goodwin?? C'mon, that is sad. Magna at Michigan = appellate court clerk.

I'd much rather work with someone from Mich or UVA than HLS or Yale. Most of the people I know that went to HLS or Yale are huge tools.

On some level, I guess we are all tools.

I think we can all agree that Kash is the hardest to get into.

U of M - Where no one from the state is accepted and where no one will stay to work.

Great job Pres. Coleman - you're as useless to MI as your predecessor.

F U of M. U of M F's MI.

This would explain why I got into Yale and Harvard but was dinged by BC. Seriously.

137, the only good thing to come from Waco, TX is Jennifer Love Hewitt. And even her luster is fading.

80-- incredible post. incredible. thank you.

Elie,

Do they count you as employed when they do the HLS numbers? I went to BC and work at Kirkland NYC, I think it does fine. I wasn't even in the top 10.

Your arrogant attitude isn't backed up by your accomplishments.

Elie = TTT. Elie = Harvard. Harvard = TTT?

80, he's going to be nervous, so you might have to be ready to do some extra work. just a heads up....

I have yet to meet a UVA law grad in biglaw that could handle the associate-level work. They've had decent memo writing skills and good social skills, but I haven't met one yet that's impressed me with their sharpness or persuasive legal writing skills. Maybe one day I will understand why they are ranked so highly. But as of now, I'd rather have a top GW grad over a UVA grad any day working on my cases.

It's funny how none of this really matters once you are out in the real world (Working at V10 from a school ranked in the 90s). Law school rankings are for self-conscious douches who's life peaked when they got into a T14 law school?!?!?!?

154 = TTT

yeah i call bullshit on 154

149,

Steve Martin is also from Waco.

PS people have a bit of a misconception about the Texas firm's hiring practices.

The top firms obviously value UT kids. But SMU is only a valued degree in Dallas.

Baylor kids struggle to get placements with the "top firms" that are Texas based. If you don't believe me, check their websites.

These rankings do nothing to help a student make an informed decision on which law school to attend... Any T14 will get you a job.

A ranking on schools with hottest 1Ls would've been much more helpful....

What GULC lacks in quality we make up for in quantity baby

These law school rankings do nothing to help a college student make an informed decision on what law school to attend... any T14 school will get you a good job.

No. What really needs to be published is a list of schools with hottest 1Ls... What GULC lacks in quality we make up in quantity baby!

60 here.

I think that my slacker ethic will work fine. The key is to make a decent outline, take practice exams before finals, and be able to trace my way through cogent legal analysis.

I realize that it's a tough market, but I don't think that grades are in my control, and I don't think that more hours will necessarily lead to better grades. The holding of the case is usually the most important thing; there's no reason to highlight the procedural posture and reasoning for hours.

In class, I take big picture notes and I can follow class discussion well without briefing. We'll see whether my strategy works when finals roll around, but my school is famous for a system that has only two finals for its first two quarters.

Finally, I talked to a LR upperclassman the other day who has an offer from a top firm (think Wachtell, MTO, W&C territory), and he said that he crammed most of his work into the last two weeks. He stayed "bare bones" until finals.

Elie puts up a post at 6 pm and gets over 160 comments. What kind of life do we lead??

161, just because it worked for your upperclassman friend doesn't mean it'll work for you. I think it's a large gamble to not put your all in to your first year. Good luck though, I hope it works out for you.

It's comical you're all calling Elie an elitist...per usu, you're all a bunch of hypocritical, elitist, personally unfulfilled, short-dicked (if applicable) attys...if you're a law student, then you're a fuc*ing idiot for going to law school right now, and an elitist.

-God

$100 says MysTTTal was a diversity admit.

Another $100 says MysTTTal was a diversity hire.

Now that was amusing, Elie.

too bad umich undergrad is a joke.

I demand a post about Elie's father:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/suffolk/ny-limyst0916,0,1055583.story

This is newsworthy and relevant to the blog. Stop the coverup you hack!

I enjoy men.

*Rubs penis juice all over my face*

--nervous T-10 1L

I think I'll take my Hofstra full scholarship, my top 5% ranking and go to my Vault top ten firm and laugh at everyone else while they pay their loans for the next ten years

Hey "nervous T-10 1L" why don't you go read and stop typing online. Maybe you'll be able to get a position waiting tables over the summer.

I would love it if you told me on an interview you were the person signing every post "-nervous T-10 1L." I would lean across the table and smack you. No wait - better yet, I would pull down my pants, present, and then smack you across the face.

Accepted at Northwestern, UVA, Michigan, and GULC. Dinged at BC. I'm confused...

So did Michigan steal those rankings from someone? In sandwich form?

10- I didn't realize that your performance on an arbitrary, standardized test directly correlates to your ability to read. In case you haven't noticed, law school is the same for everyone. If you go to a 3rd or 4th tier, you just don't get any respect for it. It has nothing to do with ability to read cases. In fact, most 3rd and 4th tier law schools don't have any open-book exams, so in that respect its harder.

Douche bag.

Yes, b/c clearly YOU'VE gone far w/ that Yale degree - EIC of ATL - what a WONDERFUL career you have. Yale must be salivating.

Also turned BU down in favor of Cardozo - AND got a job in media. Cardozo has the connections... as do NYU Law and UCLA.

Also turned BU down in favor of Cardozo - AND got a job in media. Cardozo has the connections... as do NYU Law and UCLA.

154: Like many top schools, there is a wretched sense of entitlement that is found in a number of UVa students. Combine that with a student culture that really does look down on hard work (see, e.g., Dandelion, Foxfields, FebClub), and you're going to end up with a few questionable associates. The final factor is a handful of abysmal professors, teaching core classes, that refuse to retire.

Boston College gets no national respect but god help you if you try to get a job at a major Boston law firm and do not show an appropriate amount of respect for Doug Flutie. Notre Dame? Yankees fan? You can kiss that offer goodbye, my friend.

As far as Career prospects go... where is Columbia Law? We place a higher proportion of our class in BigLaw than any other school. I'm not saying that should make us number 1, I know that Biglaw is not all that counts. But its surprising to me that we didn't even make top 10.
-CLS Student

Woah people, don't get BC and BU mixed up. BC is mediocre at job placement in the top 100 firms, while BU is flat out horrible.

BU Alum

Based on this post, it's clear that HLS wouldn't place anywhere near the top of any "Produces Best Writers" rankings. Way to embarrass your alma, Elie.

A lot of shitty BU students on this thread... Typical: blaming the school for your own failures. Half the school goes to biglaw. If you don't, then blame yourself for being in the wrong half.

161 - you stupid douche. The procedural posture is incredibly important in many of your classes. Especially in civ pro.

"In class, I take big picture notes and I can follow class discussion well without briefing."

You are going to be a terrible associate if that's the habit you want to have.

do career prospects include any career such as plumbing and automotive services?

Funny that people seem to be ignoring the influence of one's undergrad school. I've done a lot of hiring committee work and I can tell you, I'm usually more interested in the kid who went to top undergrad and top law school then with the kid from HLS who spent his undergrad at some state school dump, e.g. (even if he graduated magna there, which usually he had to in order to get into a place like HLS).

Bottom line: no matter how prestigious your law school, it's an uphill battle if your undergrad stinks.

Eile the level of your retardosity is unparalleled and even competitive with other retards out there. You suck and have made this site painful to read.

what the hell is the Thomas M. Cooley Law School Law Program? it is not even a school? only a program? LOL

what the hell is the Thomas M. Cooley Law School Law Program? it is not even a school? only a program? LOL

what the hell is the Thomas M. Cooley Law School Law Program? it is not even a school? only a program? LOL

161 here.

People seem to be taking umbrage at my self-proclaimed slacker work ethic, but I'm not really a slacker. I've read ALL of the cases and I can follow class discussion fine. I don't see why I need to spend 70 hours on Pierson v. Post and Hannah v. Peel when I can spend 2 hours on the same cases and understand them decently well.

Isn't law school all about extracting the rule and legal analysis, anyway?

If anyone can explain to me what I'm doing wrong, or how someone works 70 hours in the first place, then I'll happily listen. But, for now, I'll continue being social (isn't networking a huge deal?) and enjoying my life sans grade worries.

161 here.

People seem to be taking umbrage at my self-proclaimed slacker work ethic, but I'm not really a slacker. I've read ALL of the cases and I can follow class discussion fine. I don't see why I need to spend 70 hours on Pierson v. Post and Hannah v. Peel when I can spend 2 hours on the same cases and understand them decently well.

Isn't law school all about extracting the rule and legal analysis, anyway?

If anyone can explain to me what I'm doing wrong, or how someone works 70 hours in the first place, then I'll happily listen. But, for now, I'll continue being social (isn't networking a huge deal?) and enjoying my life sans grade worries.

Even though he is a dirty basketball player (e.g., throwing unnecessary elbows), Van Zandt is doing a helluva job at Northwestern.

The people who incessantly harp on rankings have no idea how the world really works. I went to a much more highly ranked school (outside Boston), but now practice in Boston. When I got laid off from Biglaw, I started to wish I had a larger network of friends in town at other law firms. I wound up trading on the connections of friends who went to Boston College. Alums of BC seem to run the legal market here - they also stick together and help each other out. I turned down BC to attend my swankier school, and although I have a fancier name on my resume, in the long run I'm not so sure it was the best career move.

Ha. Well I went to BC law and managed to network my way into a BigLaw job (yes, it does actually happen) via BC law grads. And in New York, not even Boston.

And I got to go half price.

That said, anyone passing up a T10 for BC is insane.

Stop bitching at Elie, this post is fine.

Harpoon Elie, because he won't beach himself.

GO BLUE!

What the pinheads at ATL don't seem to grasp is that people who want to be lawyers go to these schools and effete intellectual academics go to Yale and many never have any kind of career as a lawyer... they go straight into academics, politics or go on to get endless other degrees as long as mommy and daddy keep paying the bills...

This list is completely absurd. I think the rankings on Outlines.com is actually more realisitic!

TTT students have to use their limited brain cells and slow firing synapses to compete like animals for what, one or two jobs for a huge class of 500? No wonder they view themselves as more competitive. It makes sense.

201:

And elitist, beta-male douchebags like you are doomed to use their non-existent personal skills and limited anatomical attributes to compete for the touch of a woman, which you rarely ever experience. Ultimately, you end up settling down with an equally unattractive, equally self-loathing beeyotch for a life partner, in order to get some action at least once a month and fulfill your biological imperative of procreation.

201, that sucks. You are hilarious insecure AND you got pwned.

That's right, pwned.

199 - That argument is sounds like one I heard on why one goes to Harvard over Yale. Because they want to learn law and not sociology, or something like that.

I went to BC not "because I want to be a lawyer," as opposed to an academic or politician. I just didn't get into a T14, and BC gave me the most $$ out of the other T30 schools i DID get into.

People might like to flatter themselves that they went to a non-T5 school because they are more practical or something, but that is very rarely the case.

I wish I DID go to a T14 so I could have been mediocre at school and still managed a job at least as good as what I got by gunning for grades at BC. Shit happens though.

Before everyone rattles about how wonderful Yale or such is, the ranking is based on employment. BC has a much higher placement for grads quicker than most law schools. Of course that doesn't mean everyone is making $160K but as someone who goes to BC Law, I will say that more than 50% of the people I know here have absolutely no desire to work for biglaw. It has a pretty heavy public interest focus - being Jesuit and all. Not everyone cares about making $165K/year they can never spend because they have no social life (and from what I can tell, aren't interesting enough to have one even if they had the time.)

I did not get into Yale btw, call me bitter. I also didn't apply. Though I did get into a T15 school and turned it down to go to BC. Who the F wants to live in New Haven for three years anyway? What a sh*thole.

"You mean we have to actually read the cases? Damn, this school is competitive." --Ohio Northern University Law Student

#100,

"turned down Berkeley, Mich, UVa, NYU, Cornell, & Penn for a full ride at BC. Was wait-listed at Stanford & Harvard. Did not get into Yale, Chicago, or Columbia."

Funny. I went to Berkeley, two years later was debt free, have a big law job, and a real law degree.

You saved $60k - $100k. Big woop.

I graduated from BC undergrad and BCLS (and received half scholarships to both). I have been out for a few years now and have worked at two of the most presitgious firms in the world (where admittedly I have been shocked to discover other BCLS grads flying under the radar). BC may not get a ton of publicity but it certainly was a quality education (at half the price for me) and although you may not realize it, BC grads are everywhere and not just in Boston. While I am not sure that BC will get you a job at Wachtell or Cravath (which appears to hire only HLS grads (see their website for proof)), it is a well respected school and if you do well there you can easily make it into biglaw. That having been said, when my kid applies to law school you can be he/she will be going to HLS!

Umm...hello? Everyone knows that only one set of law school rankings actually matters.

http://www.cooley.edu/rankings/overall2007.htm

"BC has a much higher placement for grads quicker than most law schools."

with sentences like that, I bet it does

170, and they'll be laughing back at you when you don't make partner. How many partners from T4 schools like Hofstra do you see at V10 firms?

209
Good call. Wonder if that particular ranking was biased in any way?

I don't know what kinds of numbers Princeton Review uses, but I am not sure anything short of poor research and analysis methods (or, as I would contend, a desire to be provocative) could keep Yale off this list. As to those who say Yale grads don't become lawyers, you don't know anything about the numbers. 75% of YLS grads practice in biglaw 5 years out. Many did clerkships for a year or two, or did DOJ work or something else like that in between. Maybe Princeton Review doesn't think that kind of experience or work is worthwhile, or that it constitutes a good "employment prospect," but they more likely just feel like being controversial.

I agree with 177. UVA grads are the biggest douchebags to work with.

I don't understand how a school can be competitive without being hard to get into?

-FCU 3L applying for SCOTUS clerkship

Elie = stupid. Baylor is consistently ranked among most competitive law schools (research would have helped a little there). Competiveness does not equate to quality of education. If it did, top tier schools wouldn't be switching to pass/fail systems.

Friends and family who have gone to Baylor Law have told me more stories than I care to recall about people breaking down crying in class and being kicked out of the room for not knowing the answer when called on. Not typical in most law schools these days.

Research. Write. Check grammar and spelling. Then post.

I think we should start a social experiment. On the last day of class at law school, we should all have to take the LSAT again. Only then could we really determine which law school actually gives the best legal education.

I don't understand how a school can be competitive without being hard to get into?

-FCU 3L applying for SCOTUS clerkship

Go Blue! Now Win Some Games!!!!!

186 = douche. It's more impressive if someone is able to overcome the hindrance of a crap undergrad and attend a top law school.

The 'most competitive' list is either BS or meaningless. It's BS if it purports to rank schools in terms of which students will be hardest for the average law student to beat out on a curve. It's meaningless if it ranks schools in terms of how much cut-throat slaving is going on in the student body. Why would anyone want to wade into a bloodbath of mediocrity?

221, are you an idiot? Nobody wants to wade into a "bloodbath of mediocrity." That, presumably, is why the list is there - to tell you to stay away.

Three words: Waco street cred.

220 = douche from crappy state school undergrad who couldn't crack 1200 on his SATs, then got into a mediocre T1 law school solely on work ethic. Short on intellect, said douche is doomed to struggle in biglaw.

220 = douche from crappy state school undergrad who couldn't crack 1200 on his SATs, then got into a mediocre T1 law school solely on work ethic. Short on intellect, said douche is doomed to struggle in biglaw.

How does one "crack" a 1200 SAT? I'd think it would sound more like a sort of moist thud.

Albany Law School has made it to a list -- i could not be prouder of my TTT law school.

I do not work in biglaw. I did not have the grades. I work for a big4 accounting firm doing tax consulting. I know I deserve to be TTT'd for admitting all this -- but given todays job market, I am thrilled to be making my low six figures. Word.

211 - The managing partner in the NY office is from Syracuse - he seems to have done alright. Amazingly, some firms actually care about the quality your work at the firm.

211 - The managing partner in the NY office is from Syracuse - he seems to have done alright. Believe it or not, I got into NYU and chose to go to Hofstra. It's a crappy school, but I would do it again in a heartbeat. I've learned all I need to know. Everything has worked out well, and if I want to stick to the partner track, I'll work to get there.

Went to BU, got a great education, graduated when job market was soft, had no problem finding a big law job.

227-

Good for you! People who dwell on prestige miss the point- we all should be striving for sustainable life styles. That means different things to different people. Word.

115 is right.

226: Way to get the point. You're a sharp one.

And remember that since 1994, the SATs have twice been adjusted upward so that pretty much everyone gets at least 600 on each part (aren't there three parts now?). A 1200 back in my day would be something like a 1300 now. Incidentially, this is consistent with the increased sense of entitlement felt by today's genration.

Anyway, who cares? (Not me, obviously.)

To my understanding, Practice Court is the biggest reason Baylor is consistently ranked as a highly competitive law school. I didn't see a post about it, and thought it deserved mention.

The program consists of reading and studying upwards of 100-400 pages of reading a night. Class 4-7 hours a day. And trial exercises every week. 3-30 page memos for not being prepared. (due the next day). And did I mention this is all in the third year? After 2 years of regular, grueling law school, Baylor students are put through "boot camp."

Quit ragging on Baylor as if you know what you are talking about. I dare you to go through a day of PC without feeing the pressure and understanding why Baylor is ranked not only competitive but in the top ten best litigation training law schools in the country.

For the record, 224:

I'm a douche from a crappy state school undergrad who cracked 1500 on my SATs, then got into an outstanding T10 law school solely on my LSAT score. Short on work ethic, however, I am still doomed to struggle in BIGLAW.

-220

I have been reading this blog on daily basis for the past three years, but I am quickly losing interest. These elitist posts don't benefit anyone except insecure d-bags at T14 schools. Elie, go back to XOXO.

New Haven is a disgusting pit. I'd rather go to Suffolk in Boston than live in New Haven for three years. Then again, if I managed to get into Yale, I probably could have gotten into another T10 school located somewhere better than New Haven.

That said, I had to settle for a T20 school - *tear*. Congrats on getting three more questions right on the LSAT, you're a real f-ing genius. You can congratulate me on getting laid on a regular basis later when we're still working together at a biglaw firm.

I think the reason BC and BU are on the list and Yale is not is because the Princeton Review compiles its rankings by asking students if they're satisfied with the career prospects of their school. BC and BU students expect only to be well-positioned for Boston jobs, while Yale students expect to be well-positioned for any job. If you consider the lower expectations of the students being surveyed, the list makes some sort of sense.