Buoy oh buoy!
Five Things Hellerites Wished They Knew At The Start
[Ed Note: This post was written for ATL by "Heller Drone," who created the blog Heller Highwater in response to a lack of information concerning Heller Ehrman's dissolution. We asked Heller Drone for helpful advice to offer Thelen associates and staff. Good luck to everybody dealing with these difficult circumstances.]
Being capsized is often something quite jarring and comes upon you suddenly and painfully, say like food poisoning or an episode of The View. And despite the fact that you can see that iceberg in the distance, a soon-to-be ex-staffer of a BigLaw firm can't always anticipate each and every wave that will buffet his or her lifeboat. Here are words of advice for our colleagues at Thelen and perhaps other firms which are in the process of dissolving:
Get Organized
You don't necessarily need a blog but it is a nice way of communicating to a large group without hosting a website on your domain, etc. Blogging is a very "turnkey" operation and with platforms such as Blogger or WordPress or Typepad you can be on your way to your first post in less than five minutes. Any stressed and harried soon-to-be unemployed staffer can do it.
Besides a blog, set up some form of networking such as Facebook or better yet LinkedIn. This will allow former staffers to communicate with each other once the firm's email system is offline.
Know Your Rights as an Employee
Do your research - and if you don't know where to start enlist a paralegal or associate to assist. Realize that labor laws differ by state and this includes vacation accrual, how to file a wage claim, etc. Make sure you understand clearly anything you are being asked to sign and ask to make a copy of the document, take it home and review it first if possible. Do not sign any of your rights away during what can be a very emotionally trying time.
More tips after the jump.
Start Backing Up Items NOW
While this seems like a no-brainer, time can slip away and you can, and will, be terminated sooner than expected. Hellerites received their WARN Act notice on September 26th and it stated that "there will be work for you" through November 28th. Here it is October 28th and less than a handful of people are still employed at Heller.
Sort through your emails, electronic files, etc. now. If you have a laptop, take it home and back it up to an external drive or to one of many free online services (Lifehacker has an up to date list here (http://lifehacker.com/5064688/online-storage-feature+by+feature-comparison-chart).)
Otherwise, get a flash drive or some other USB device and backup what you need. When in doubt, keep it.
Get It In Writing
Come on. We've all been on the receiving end of those lines of b.s. such as "I'll call you" or "The check is in the mail" or "I promise it won't end up on the Internet." It is nice to trust your soon to be ex-firm and those at the helm of the dissolution. Every statement made verbally should be backed up by an email or a memo. And if it isn't then ask for it.
Take Care of Number One
That means you. Start by stocking up on prescriptions if possible, make appointments for doctor, dentist and optometrist. Check your flexible spending account rules - you may need to make expenditures before your termination date otherwise you lose that money. Consider eliminating or reducing your 401k contributions (better to have that money in your pocket than tied up in retirement funds, especially given the stock market situation). Save all your pay stubs to calculate accrued vacation. Download any and all HR policies now before they are removed from the firm's website.
And by all means give yourself time and room to grieve, to be angry, to take it easy, to just daydream, to just take care of yourself. Seek out a job coach or someone who can help you find a new perspective in terms of what you want to do with the rest of your life - both professionally and personally. See this as an opportunity, as the glass being half full. You'll accomplish more than you realize when all is said and done.
****
Heller Drone can be reached at Heller Highwater, a website devoted to helping ex-Heller employees reach higher ground.
(166) Comments
Fizzurst!!!
First!
FWORST BLOG EVERFIRST!
Heller Highwater! Brilliant!
Elie, please do a story on how our possible next president was raised in a WGWAG relationship in Indonesia. Is this even constitutional? The voters need to know!
*wonders who is in a worse position, me or a thelen associate? tears up at the thought*
-nervous T-10 1L
you've lost that lovin' thelen?
"Thelen the Pain".blogspot.com?
Don't worry, that was a free one
Alternately, "Thelen like a felon"
Heller Drone to editor of ATL!
*wonders who is in a worse position, me or a thelen associate? tears up at the thought*
-nervous T-10 1L
I left Thelen in 2002 but hadn't gotten around to rolling over my 401(k). There was a brief technical glitch so when I talked to the Schwab folks (who manage the Thelen 401(k) plan) they said "yeah, we've gotten a few calls about that account today." Heh.
Bye, Uncle Max. It was sort of fun.
So glad I don't go to GULC.
-GW 1L
Semper Paratus
10--I'm going with the associates who already have loan payments and other obligations that are due...you still have two years left in school. Worst case scenario for you? No biglaw job...get over it.
Does Elie recommend raiding the firm fridge and stocking up on those breakfast platters usually left scattered around conference rooms ? Mmmm.... stale half-eaten muffins sitting on wilted lettuce... almost makes unemployment bearable once you wipe off the trace lipstick.
10- Stop trolling ATL with your insipid comments
Please fall off the face of the planet. You are everything that is wrong with some law students. Don't pretend you care a/b Thelen or the people who worked there. Self concerned and caring only for yourself. You are a 1L- you know nothing. And probably won't even when you, maybe, pass the bar.
WTF do you have to be nervous about? focus on civ pro and get your head out of your ass for assuming that you are in someway entitled to 160K starting or that firms will actually want to hire someone like you who clearly lacks any common sense.
-Thelen SA
10- Stop trolling ATL with your insipid comments
Please fall off the face of the planet. You are everything that is wrong with some law students. Don't pretend you care a/b Thelen or the people who worked there. You care only for yourself.
You are a 1L- you know nothing. And probably won't even when you, maybe, pass the bar.
WTF do you have to be nervous about? focus on civ pro and get your head out of your ass for assuming that you are in someway entitled to 160K starting or that firms will actually want to hire someone like you who clearly lacks any common sense.
-Thelen SA
10- Stop trolling ATL with your insipid comments
Please fall off the face of the planet. You are everything that is wrong with some law students. Don't pretend you care a/b Thelen or the people who worked there. You care only for yourself.
You are a 1L- you know nothing. And probably won't even when you, maybe, pass the bar.
WTF do you have to be nervous about? focus on civ pro and get your head out of your ass for assuming that you are in someway entitled to 160K starting or that firms will actually want to hire someone like you who clearly lacks any common sense.
-Thelen SA
good luck to thelen ppl.
@ 12 - so glad that you will be framing your rejection letter from GULC? Trust me, no one at the Georgetown Waitlist University in foggy bottom shares your sentiment.
10- Stop trolling ATL with your insipid comments
Please fall off the face of the planet. You are everything that is wrong with some law students. Don't pretend you care a/b Thelen or the people who worked there. You care only for yourself.
You are a 1L- you know nothing. And probably won't even when you, maybe, pass the bar.
WTF do you have to be nervous about? focus on civ pro and get your head out of your ass for assuming that you are in someway entitled to 160K starting or that firms will actually want to hire someone like you who clearly lacks any common sense.
-Thelen SA
good luck to thelen ppl.
10- Stop trolling ATL with your insipid comments
Please fall off the face of the planet. You are everything that is wrong with some law students. Don't pretend you care a/b Thelen or the people who worked there. You care only for yourself.
You are a 1L- you know nothing. And probably won't even when you, maybe, pass the bar.
WTF do you have to be nervous about? focus on civ pro and get your head out of your ass for assuming that you are in someway entitled to 160K starting or that firms will actually want to hire someone like you who clearly lacks any common sense.
-Thelen SA
good luck to thelen ppl.
12 - because you're a 1L and may be new to this blog, let me clear something up for you. If you aren't T14 (and, sometimes, even if you are) you're TTT and not allowed to talk.
@12 So glad that you will be framing your rejection letter from GULC? No one at the Georgetown Waitlist University in Foggy Bottom, including you, would ever think that.
Maybe someone will appreciate this post. If I were in a similar position, I sure as hell would.
- 2L who realizes Thelen associates are in a MUCH worse situation than I am.
*wonders who is in a worse position, me or a thelen associate? tears up at the thought*
-nervous T-10 1L
*nervously sidesteps 16, 17, 18, 20, 21; he seems unstable...hopefully people will be more kind at my 1L summer job (hopefully cravath)*
-nervous T-10 1L
I begin to see why people see Thelen associates as being extraordinarily stupid when I see such an associate repeatedly pressing the "Post Comment," button to post the EXACT same comment like an addicted monkey pushing a button for more crack.
Sucks to be a Thelen associate with a sub-100 IQ in today's economy. Doc review monkey work just isn't your strong point, is it?
12 - Why? Are you relieved that you'll never experience the pressure and potential upsets of big law?
- Georgetown Law 3L
Also, Heller Drone doesn't understand that "verbal" means "comprised of words." A written agreement is verbal, just as much as a spoken one is. The distinction properly termed is oral versus written.
16/17/18/20/21 - Kudos to you sir!
Heller Drone - well written and thoughtful advice. It should go without saying that all that 'backing up' of files should be done a little on the quiet side. Of course everyone does (or should) do it, but we know its not yours to take. Emailing attachments to your non-work accounts, however, is a good way for those few mega documents you authored and are so-proud of.
Useful advice : Copied from Heller Highwater
10 Things to Do the Day After You’re Laid Off
Published 23 October 2008 Heller Highwater
From an online article in U.S. News and World Reports by Karen Burns:
1. Get up early, and exercise. Run, walk, ride your bike, dance to a video. Move your body. Sweat.
2. Shower. Wash hair. Put on makeup if you wear makeup. Put on your favorite outfit. Eat a healthful and tasty breakfast.
3. Write a thank-you note to your former boss. Also to the people you worked with. It’s classy. Plus, they will be more likely to remember you if they hear of any other opportunities (so include your contact info).
4. Take a good, honest look at your financial situation. Identify where you can immediately cut back on expenses—even if in a symbolic way only. You’ll feel more in control.
5. Allow yourself to grieve. A job loss is like a death. Mourning is a normal, healthy reaction. Just don’t let it be your only reaction.
6. Talk with someone smart and upbeat who makes you feel good about yourself.
7. Write out a plan of action. List the things you need to do (e.g., file for unemployment, gather references) in the order in which you need to do them.
8. Perfect your résumé. If you need help, remember that the library has, free, many books that will offer it.
9. Make a list of all your contacts: anyone/everyone who could possibly lead you to a new job.
10. Reflect. If you’ve been yearning to change careers, now’s a great time. Start researching. Dive in.
So how many of you laughed at #3? Take a look at the comments in the article and you’ll see an “alternate list.”
why do any of you rag on nervous 1L. you know its not the same person everytime, so why do you address s/he as if they are when asking them to go away?
its a schtick that evolved out of XO, like all the other crappy ATL schticks*
*minus Frat Stud/Lothsario.. which are comedic gold.
If I accepted a summer associate position at Thelen what happens now? Will the firm make special arrangements for HYS students?
-nervous HYS 2L
12 - After this Spring, GULC will no longer be a T-14 so you can count on not talking in this forum either.
28 - No, I'm pleased that my degree is increasing in value, whereas a GULC diploma merely indicates an ability to be herded around with a bunch of other hard workers who just aren't that smart.
- GW 1L
27 - If you haven't noticed over the past week or so, trolls and douchebags have been copy/pasting other people's posts so that stupid people would get mad at them for multiposting. Those copy/pasters get off when people say things like "I begin to see why people see Thelen associates as being extraordinarily stupid when I see such an associate repeatedly pressing the "Post Comment," button to post the EXACT same comment like an addicted monkey pushing a button for more crack."
32: amen! there's only one real nervous T-10 1L and it's me, a nervous summer starter at michigan.
*hands you my resume, stands there awkwardly as you read it*
-nervous T-10 1L
34 - you are a complete moron. GULC's 25th% lsat is at, or higher than, GW's 75th%.
Here are five things that Thelen associates wished they knew at the start:
5. That most of the partners didn't have enough business.
4. That the firm was burdened with BRS debt and high price leases.
3. That O'Neal is a weasel (along with several other partners).
2. That no firm was ever really interested in merging with Thelen after the BRS merger.
and the number one thing that Thelen associates wish they knew at the start . . .
1. That law firms will screw loyal employees.
37 - Yeah, GULC's daytime program's LSAT scores - unfortunately that is only part of the school. Exposure this Spring!
33 - Yes, just for HYS students, Thelen will have a program called "S.O.L."
Heller Drone here.
ATL has a bit of a glitch with the commenting feature - whenever I post the system locks up and I need to do a refresh (F5) and check to see if the comment is there.
I don't think people are copying other comments and reposting - I think it is more a user's lack of familiarity with his or her instrument. Post once, refresh and check before reposting.
H.D.
Great guest post!
Is a GULC a creature that dwells underground and only surfaces to feed on unsuspecting humans?
While we are listing the Thelen incompetent management, let's not forget David "I am just a steward of the corporate department" Graybeal
Better then Elsie.
Graybeal, now wasn't he fourth generation from his family at the firm (or its predecessors)? His forefathers must be rolling in their graves at junior's complete screw-up!
I think so. His SILO / LILO tax shelter practice really blew up a few years ago. Not much heard from him since.
All this GULC/GW talk is irrelevant, both schools are complete TTT. I hate how GULC kids think there school is as good as other T10 schools, no one else feels that way, so just take your V80-100 job and STFU. On the other hand, I hate it when kids at GW say "we have a really good patent law program!!!" Blow me, no one cares, my guess is that your OCI's are weak and your little "great program!" chant gets you nowhere. I think both schools should sit the next couple plays out.
-Columbia 3L
I wonder where Bob "I'm going down with the ship" Reger will wind up -- any thoughts ?
@48 your competence (low) is inversely related to your douchebaggery (high)... that is to say that you meant "their" not "there". fuckstick.
27 - If you haven't noticed over the past week or so, trolls and douchebags have been copy/pasting other people's posts so that stupid people would get mad at them for multiposting. Those copy/pasters get off when people say things like "I begin to see why people see Thelen associates as being extraordinarily stupid when I see such an associate repeatedly pressing the "Post Comment," button to post the EXACT same comment like an addicted monkey pushing a button for more crack."
Why, 49, he will go down with the ship, of course. Aren't all Thelen partners men of their word?
51 - yes indeed, according to Igoe's memorable "Statement of Core Values", Thelen partners are men of their word.
27 - If you haven't noticed over the past week or so, trolls and douchebags have been copy/pasting other people's posts so that stupid people would get mad at them for multiposting. Those copy/pasters get off when people say things like "I begin to see why people see Thelen associates as being extraordinarily stupid when I see such an associate repeatedly pressing the "Post Comment," button to post the EXACT same comment like an addicted porchmonkey pushing a button for more crack."
Did anyone other than me ever notice the similarity between Tom Igoe and Deputy Dog ?
51, thanks for pointing that out. I have followed this blog for awhile, and the percentage of trolls and complete a-hole posters seems to grow larger by the day. Sadly, what many people don't seem to realize is that nearly all trolls and most of the a-holes are just looking for a reaction to their stupid crap. If more people would just scroll on by the idiotic posts and ignore them, I suspect that the various incarnations of "Nervous T-10 1L", the idiot GULC/GW students, ex frat boys, and other morons with too much time on their hands would just go away. There is not much incentive to continue post asinine comments if they are ignored.
Don't feed the trolls!
I don't know how much blame we can put on him for Thelen's collapse, but no listing of culpable partners would be complete without a reference to Tom "don't laugh at my last name" Glass-cock
Tony Terrell is laughing.
Cathy Hood is laughing too, but then John slaps her in the face.
57, can you elaborate on why you hold him responsible for Thelen's collapse? Technically you could put partial blame on any partner who jumped ship since the BRS merger because the basis for the revocation of Thelen's line of credit is that too many partners have left. But many of them left for legitimate reasons, not simply to avoid being the last one off the sinking ship.
Thelen is failin'.
(And Jamie's cryin'.)
Trolls have to eat too.
56=racist.
Any word on where the NY corp finance / utility group is going ?
This blog is done. Stick a fork in it.
Great guest post, and thousands of idiot commenters who think they're funny. Hey dipshits - if you have this much time on your hands, go pick up some pro bono. Or actually leave your desk for lunch and get a life.
12/34 - That's your argument? There's a select group of elite law schools of which Georgetown always has, and always will, be apart. A drop in Georgetown's US News ranking wouldn't affect recruiting at Georgetown; recruiters would simply recruit at the T13 plus Georgetown.
If you're so unhappy with your choice in law schools that you have to post irrelevant, disparaging remarks about other schools, then you should drop out or transfer.
48 - Sounds like you're bitter because there's no "C" in "HYS" (The actually elite law schools)
- 28
Welton Seal is laughing.
67-Glass Cock was a partner at Thelen. That's all it takes, right? The point is to say his last name as many times as possible without laughing.
Glass cock
Glass cock
LOL!
Damn, didn't even make it to three.
Bob "I'm going down with the ship" Reger will wind up
__________________________________________
I doubt it matters--someone in his position really shouldn't need a job.
Are the rumors about Locke Lord closing down offices true?
Andrew Kransdorf is laughing now.
David Hardy is laughing.
I am laughing.
Thelen = Palin
Sean McPherson is laughing now.
Kevin Stacey (that psycho) is laughing now.
Gentlemen at the legal preparatory academy with which I was once affiliated found themselves in circumstances wherein their work product, in the form of various postings, promulgations, and other written communications propounded, published, and otherwise disseminated to the public in the form of comments to certain web logs, including but not limited to this one, was, from time to time, misappropriated and put to mischief through the repeated and repetitive re-publication of the aforementioned writings as additional comments to the selfsame posting in response to which the original writings were created. These events were considered gauche and provoked considerable consternation within the gentlemen, as well as with certain third parties also privy to the web logs and communications made therein. Upon realization that the assignment of blame for such repeated publications could be visited upon the unnamed raucuous scalawags and knaves who found amusement in such devious behavior merely by duly registering a profile, the gentlemen concluded that the repeated publications described herein, while nonetheless irksome, were, in fact, not a big deal.
65, so there is a "group of elite law schools" and also a distinct group of "actually elite law schools"????
I think it is fair to say that you GULC'ed yourself there...
At a cocktail party of lawyers, if someone were to say that they attended GULC I assure you, 65, that they would not consider that person to be part of any "elite" group. Rather, on the car ride home, a real lawyer might wonder to his wife who invited you.
Lenny Gubar is laughing now.
Heller Drone here.
ATL has a bit of a glitch with the commenting feature - whenever I post the system locks up and I need to do a refresh (F5) and check to see if the comment is there.
I don't think people are copying other comments and reposting - I think it is more a user's lack of familiarity with his or her instrument. Post once, refresh and check before reposting.
H.D.
Heller Drone here.
ATL has a bit of a glitch with the commenting feature - whenever I post the system locks up and I need to do a refresh (F5) and check to see if the comment is there.
I don't think people are copying other comments and reposting - I think it is more a user's lack of familiarity with his or her instrument. Post once, refresh and check before reposting.
H.D.
79 - Funny.
i'm nervous about everyone assuming i am always nervous
nervous t-10 1L
38-- Join the club! It's not just employees they screw. Clients too. Fast buck syndrome. Morals are passé. Ethics rules unenforced. It's a free for all! Rest assured though, Obama is our savior. He's going to redistribute the wealth after all. Happy days are just around the corner.
http://www.evilesq.com
Heller Drone here.
ATL has a bit of a glitch with the commenting feature - whenever I post the system locks up and I need to do a refresh (F5) and check to see if the comment is there.
I don't think people are copying other comments and reposting - I think it is more a user's lack of familiarity with his or her instrument. Post once, refresh and check before reposting.
H.D.
Steve Wasserman is laughing.
Thelen is dead. We have picked its carcass clean. Most of its associates and some of its partners will wander in the wilderness of unemployment for a time, and then fade away to other firms or careers. Thelen belongs to history now. Let there be no more fun at its expense. Amen.
THELEN THE END.
The big question we need to ask ourselves is: WHICH FIRM IS NEXT?
I suspect the next firm to go down will be in the v-30 range. Yes, I said it -- a V30 firm is going down next.
Any guesses? I know Clifford Chance has been having some issues.
88: Fried Frank.
GW 1L - just stop please, you're embarrassing our school
- GW Alum
88: Your Mom & Associates, LLP
88: Milbank, Clifford Chance and Pilsburry are all fair game. One of these will fail in the next 6 months. There is just not enough legal work to go around anymore, and the mediocre firms will suffer the most.
Only the V10 will come out of this untouched.
I pity the fool that makes mama jokes.
-Mr. TTT
Welton Seal was AWESOME! Speaking as a former Thelen associate that got axed in March, I can tell you that Welton was the best trainer I've ever met! Although, I have nothing but respect for everyone I worked with there and wish all of you (especially my fellow juniors) the best of luck!
90 - That has been my biggest takeaway from all the "GULC" nonsense as well. It makes GW students look childish and insecure, which I'm sure is not the case overall. I hope is just a case of a few vocal bad apples casting the school in rather an unpleasant light. My understanding was that GW is a very good law school, but their LSATs, GPAs and national reputations undeniably leave them a fair distance behind GULC. The GULC night program certainly is unimpressive, but so is the GW one, so I hardly see the merits to that argument. In the end, my time on ATL has left me with an overall worse opinion in general of GW students and about the same of GULC students (although I do have a greater appreciation of how silly their name is). Quite a shame, since it is almost entirely based on peoples' bad attitudes, not their intelligence or work ethic.
glass cock!
I appreciate all of the advice for current thelen associates and staff members, but do incoming associates have any rights? We were assured we would have a job on January 5th, which made us hesitant to look for other work and other firms hesitant to consider us. Now we're out of a job, we can't collect unemployment, and the market sucks.
Wow, this blog has really jumped the shark -- both in terms of its posts and its commenters. Grow up, guys.
97: You had a firm offer letter, and accepted it in writiting. You have a contractual claim against the firm, for whatever they promised to pay you up to your scheduled (even delayed) start date. No claim for future compensation -- I think -- because you had no commitment from the firm for any specific employment period. But if you are owed reimbursements (bar review course, whatever) and/or pre-start stipends, make a claim for it.
Step 1: Send them a demand letter; do it now.
Step 2: Check your state's labor law, and see if you can file a wage claim. Also check time limit for filing (but it's often a year or more). If the office you were to start in is in California, official info can be found here:
Step 3: If there is a Thelen bankruptcy filing (let's hope that doesn't become necessary), pay attention and file a timely creditor claim there.
Good luck to all of you.
-- ex-Heller
That's here:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm
98, I completely agree.
But what about Tom Glass Cock?
At a cocktail party of lawyers, most attendees are trying to determine the quickest and most painless way to killself with a cocktail stirrer, in order to end the agony of being trapped at a cocktail party of lawyers.
103, the quickest way to kill oneself in such a situation is to plunge a glass cock into the body (but not a Tom Glass Cock!)
98, 101: The junior high contingent is out in full force today.
Heller Drone here.
ATL has a bit of a glitch with the commenting feature - whenever I post the system locks up and I need to do a refresh (F5) and check to see if the comment is there.
I don't think people are copying other comments and reposting - I think it is more a user's lack of familiarity with his or her instrument. Post once, refresh and check before reposting.
H.D.
BA BA BOOEY
I mean - BA BA BEVILACQUA
Of course Welton was great; he was a trained seal!
Of course Welton was great; he was a trained seal!
Peter Brown is laughing (as he bangs his former Tampa Bay Bucs cheerleader wife)
Peter Brown is laughing (as he bangs his former Tampa Bay Bucs cheerleader wife)
Note to Thelen associates:
Heller has just announced that its 401(k) plan withdrawals/distributions will be unfrozen as of Oct. 31. So, the freeze period on withdrawals (not shifting investment choices) lasted 30 days.
No word yet on what admin expenses they are going to hit us with.
Heller Drone here.
ATL has a bit of a glitch with the commenting feature - whenever I post the system locks up and I need to do a refresh (F5) and check to see if the comment is there.
I don't think people are copying other comments and reposting - I think it is more a user's lack of familiarity with his or her instrument. Post once, refresh and check before reposting.
H.D.
can someone please forward the halloween invite to above the law?
The NY Thelen office Halloween party is still going to happen and its an open invite. This could be a great event. The Thelen drudges, which are akin to a Heller drones, will have absolulety no reason not to party HARD. Its not like they care about embarassing themselves in front of soon to be ex-partners. The associates will be "pissed," both in the American and British sense of the word. This could be the NY law firm event of the season. As all Thelen associates and alumni know, Thelenites can drink like fish. It was the only good thing about the firm. Those in the know can share all sorts of Thelen party war stories: drug use, associate/associate, associate/partner and partner/associate/staff screwing, partner skinny dipping, etc. , , , ,
Recommend that all with connections attend for the entertainment value and free booze. Date: Tomorrow evening, October 30, 2008. Address: 875 Third Avenue, at 52nd Street and Third, NY, NY. All others should just crash it.
Thanks, 112. That's actually helpful and informative.
This is why associates should unionize, otherwise they get screwed by the partners when they decide to sink the ship.
117, maybe they could all be pirates for Halloween, then they could just steal a new ship. Unless of course the partners come as ninjas, then they might lose. Does anyone have any thoughts on the ninja v. pirate issue?
I find it sad that I actually miss the Ninja v. Pirate debates in this horrid day and age of In House Counsel and nervous T-10 1L.
MLB will pick up some of the senior statesmen
117: I've thought for years that associates should have an open discussion about the possible benefits of unionizing. In this day and age when only a few make partner (and even fewer in NY), associates ought to consider themselves a class with distinct economic interests deserving of protection.
Among other things, an associates union would have a representative committee with whom the partner/management powers would have to communicate. Demands could be made; grievances filed. Lots of good things could happen.
Associate/partner rapport and bonhomie might be weakened. LOL -- we've all been able to take that to the bank, right?
Update on the Heller unfreezing of 401(k)'s: Firm has announced that no admin fees for the termination process will be assessed against us plan participants. (Our plan is at Vanguard; my best guess is that Vanguard acted like good guys and waived termination expenses.) If you are interested in the full text of the announcement, it is posted on www.hellerdrone.wordpress.com
-- 112
The "senior statesmen", if they had any foresight or brains, would have taken their group to MLB a decade ago.
The world passed these guys by.
Good luck trying to be a rainmaker at age 60 when basically you have been bond counsel, and little more, for the last 30 or so years.
The kiddie corp will similarly be challenged. These guys are not deal counsel. By boy can they review a debenture.
Saf Joshi is laughing now.
Last words from a R&O lifer and a person that has posted numerous comments to this and other Thelen blogs ...
R&P was a great place to work
We were all lucky to be part of it
R&P RIP
I always thought of Tom Ego as looking like Shoeshine Boy but Deputy Dog works. Graybeal sort of resembles Cecil Turtle from Bugs Bunny.
LOL
Quick grab all of the crappy coffee machines and the marble counter tops. Where is the hot tub?
I heard that there is an admission charge for that Halloween party, is that true?
48, 52, are you high? Any partner still at Thelen at the moment *has* gone down with the ship; they are stuck with unwinding the firm, and all of the responsibilities and liabilities that come with it. The fact that Reger will in all likelihood end up somewhere else after the dismemberment is done doesn't change that. What do you want him to do to "keep his word" - retire? I only know him a little bit - I'm an associate, and not in his department - but from what I do know about him I'd guess that wherever he ends up, he'll be bringing associates and maybe even some staff with him. Why is that a bad thing?
David Graybeal, Bob Reger . . . these are good people, as are a large number of the Thelen partners still here (and as are a lot of the ones who left, btw). I know there's a lot of anger at the partners right now - and the thing that pisses me off the most is that they didn't remove Steve O'Neal back when it would have made a difference - but a lot of these partners are sick about what's happening to the firm and the people they've worked with for, in some cases, decades. Yes, they're better positioned, financially, to survive it than the rest of us (well, most of them, I'd expect). But so what? There have been partners walking through my office, apologizing to staff and associates they don't even know. I've heard of partners buying rounds of drinks for associates and staff at a group bar outing after the announcement, sitting there and listening to people vent at and about them, and agreeing with every word. I've seen partners genuinely concerned about staff, the mail room folks, the people who are going to be hit the hardest by this. I've seen partners working their asses off to bring people wherever they are going, and know of a few who took worse deals for themselves in order to do so.
Don't get me wrong, there are weasels among the partnership - people who made and broke express or implied promises to staff, to associates, to fellow partners - but most of the partners at the firm (at least the ones I know) are exactly what I've always thought them to be: thoroughly decent and honourable human beings.
Of course, that's not something most of the ATL commenters I've seen are capable of recognizing, much less actually valuing . . . so back to your regularly scheduled mudslinging
130 = Graybeal or Reger.
Does O'Neal still come into the office? Or did the other partners finally chase him out? Does anyone still talk to him, other than sycophants hoping he will get them a job somewhere?
So 130 would O'Neal be one of those "weasels among the partnership"?
132 - the word is that O'Neal hasn't been seen around the office and the few times that he has been seen it was to talk to sycophants hoping they will get him a job somewhere.
133 - from everything I've heard of the man, yes. But I've only heard things second and third hand, so my negative opinion of him might be a bit harsh. :)
I've heard that O'Neal is like the George W. Bush of law firms.
130 - Re: Bob "I'll Go Down With the Ship" Reger, aka, Bob "I'm taking personal responsibility to rebuild the NY corporate department" Reger -- it was his job to help move the franchise forward, not to live off of it to the end.
Re: David "I'm a steward of the corporate department" Graybeal -- that sounds very nice and quaint, but he was paid to be the manager in charge of that department, to be visionary and to help move it forward, not to be a steward. Management should be held accountable for collecting management level paychecks, but offering no vision.
So who is going to Reed and who is going to Nixon?
136 - given the stupidly bad management spearheaded by Steve O'Neal that led to:
1) a steady stream of partner departures; and
2) horribly managed merger discussions that killed any chance of a merger (including but not limited to dragging out Nixon talks well after the critical and ineluctable conflict was identified, wasting valuable time that could have been devoted to finding another merger partner),
what exactly were you expecting Reger and Graybeal to do? Magically convince enough partners from other firms to lateral into our obviously sinking ship to put us back in compliance with our bank covenants? Conjure large, firm saving new clients into existence who would (for reasons unknown) be willing to overlook the uncertainty surrounding their new representation?
The sad fact is, they did what they could, and it wasn't enough. That doesn't make them bad people, and it doesn't make them liars.
-130
138 - perhaps they should have contributed to an environment structured to encourage the identification of new business opportunities, instead of living off of (1) inherited relationships, or (2) SILO/ LILO tax shelter BS.
They rewarded sheep-like associates that would say "thank you sir, may I have another" instead of empowering free thinkers.
The franchise is dead.
138 - did you work there (and were you one of the free thinkers denied reward)?
nobody mentioned being denied reward
In a continuing showing of their lack of class, Thelen hiring partners have not called all of the incoming associates. Only a select few have been called. Those hiring partners should be embarassed.
142 -- Did you really need a phone call to clue you in? Just bury the hatchet (NO, not in a hiring partner's head) and move on with your life.
Typical Thelen
Arrogant management to the end
No class
Selfish
Bunch of a**holes
I can't believe that MLB is going to take Igoe, Baker and Jolles - three has beens (or never weres)
143 - I'm not 142, but I agree with him/her.
Are we in the movie Office Space? Don't we all deserve to be informed that we don't have a job anymore directly from our employer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjQDP9KX6E&feature=related
143--according to your logic, then we wouldn't need to receive letters rescinding our offers either. We should all just rely on ATL to find out our job status. There were at least a few incoming associates who had no idea that this was happening until one incoming associate sent out an email about it the other day.
143 here -- Yes you deserve letters explaining the situation but do you really think they are going to make personal phone calls to everyone? They won't. They aren't even telling current employees very much and things are changing (for the worse natch) from what they previously told us on Tuesday. I know you are upset, but it wasn't meant to be. I wish you luck and I hope you get a job at a STABLE firm!
"stable law firm" = oxymoron
This blog is so pathetic it truly gives lawyers an even worse name...if that is even possible. It gives "get a life" new meaning. Seriously. You suck.
143/147 - I'm curious, are you a Thelen associate?
I agree that incoming associates should bury the hatchet, but I disagree with you about how they should have been treated.
They are Thelen employees too. They should have been included in the communications regarding the firm's status. It should not take days or weeks for them to receive a letter telling them they don't have a job. In this market, every day is critical. Thelen's failure to communicate with them is unprofessional and unacceptable.
150 has it right: the incoming associates were already offered ,and accepted jobs, giving up options on other positions to do so. They should have been copied on all emails/announcements sent to associates and staff at the firm. Not to do so (same at Heller) was chickenshit, unprofessional, and inhumane.
Of course those incomings are supposed to be lawyer enough to figure out they are screwed in these two situations. That doesn't change how the firms should have handled the situation professionally.
List of hiring partners that should make phone calls if they have not already done so. I know some of them to be decent, honorable people. Hopefully they do the right thing.
Rich Lapping
Thomas Hill
Lisa Cole
Sarah Hewitt
Kimberly Reisler
Norman H. Roos
Charles M. English
would somebody please make sure the lights are turned off when everyone goes home for the evening
anyone want to come to my cube and get a warm hug?
anyone want to come to my cube for a warm hug?
I agree with 150/151. Just because incoming associates (and summers) weren't in the office every day doesn't mean they can be abandoned by the side of the road.
Thelen had a duty to notify them as soon as it became apparent they would no longer have jobs... when did that occur? Three weeks ago? Maybe more? Some received a phone call this week, but not all...
they shouldn't be forced to check ATL every day to find out the status of their jobs.
This is sad. Good luck to everyone.
do incoming associates have any additional rights because Thelen has failed to notify us?
Memo to incoming associations-- Wake up ! Stop thinking about Thelen. It is done. Move on. Spend your time on constructive thoughts, like trying to find a job. Perhaps in Hackensack, New Jersey.
whoa 158, slow down. hold the phone. I need a new job? I didn't realize -----
I don't believe it. They haven't told me anything about this. They promised.
No way would they get rid of my job without calling me. No way.
Hackensack you knucklehead
If not there, try Long Island
143/147 here. Not an associate; staff (of the very cynical variety as you might have guessed).
Incoming Thelen Associates,
Since I know you don't have an offer letter stating the actual date you were supposed to report to work, do you have a copy of an employment contract that is both signed by you and by someone in authority at Thelen? If so, then sue them for breach of contract. If not, then I think you are SOL. Even I, a staff member, got an offer letter with a definite start date. But I am not an attorney, so what do I know?
Now the rumor is that Thelen thinks that besides making us "wait" until sometime in 2009 (if ever) for accrued vacation time to be paid because the big bad bank "won't let them," they are going to try and dis-accrue vacation we have already accrued retroactive to the October 15 paycheck (which makes it the entire month of October) and then not allow us to accrue vacation for the month of November. In my offer letter, the vacation terms were clearly stated, and unlike bonuses and raises, vacation time was NOT at the discretion of management.
A short-lived partner recently sued Thelen because they fired him for not bringing in new business. He won because there was nothing in his employment contract that said he had to bring in new business.
If Thelen actually goes through with this rumored nonsense about taking away our accrued vacation time for the months of October and November they may be in for a surprise because I am going to look up the attorney the fired partner used and ask if he would be interested in a small class action suit. They are way out of line. It's bad enough their MANDATORY 60 DAY WARN ACT NOTICE was only 30 days. Who do they think they are? Believe me, incoming associates, the universe intervened and spoiled your plans at Thelen, but it was no big loss. I loved working with the attorneys and other people at Thelen, but the mismanagement of the higher ups was insane and is still continuing. They may think we are stupid, but they don't know who they are dealing with in the case of a few of us.
It's been a while since I was an incoming first year.
But you do have something on paper -- an offer letter you accepted, whatever. Photocopy those docs and attach to a letter to the hiring committee (name each individual if you can, or at least the one who wrote to you). In the letter demand to know where you stand, and that you will treat a non-response as anticipatory breach of contract. If what you get back is not satisfactory (which it cannot be), write a second letter demanding every monetary amount they owe you up to your expected start date (bar review course, any other reimbursements, any stipend you were supposed to get). (I don't agree with 161 that your are SOL unless your paperwork is perfectly explicit; oral promises in this area are also enforceable.)
If (when, actually) you get an unsatisfactory response to that, and if the office you were to work in is in California, file a DLSE (Dept. of Labor Standards Enforcement division) claim for the monetary damages. Official info about that and how to do it is here:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm
Other states -- I only know about Calif.
All that doesn't change the fact that you need another job of course.
Hey 150 -- Why does it matter who I am? My advice is solid. Focus on the future, not the past.
Hey 161 -- Don't impersonate me and piggyback on my original comment.
Maybe this is the first big disappointment many of the hopeful 01/09 Thelen first years have experienced. In life there are many more to come. Now you are learning that no matter how you prepare by choosing a career, going to the right school, etc., things often do not go as planned. Good luck!
What a bunch of bull...partners can say what they want but in the end there were many heartless, every man for himself type actions that left a very bitter taste in everyone's mouth and I am sorry, but words are just not enough. The place was badly managed and it was run into the ground. Associates never had proper training and they had to put up with having to scramble for work all over the firm. There was no mentoring and there was only back stabbing in and among the partnership. They all hated each other. Good luck to everyone. I am sure what goes around comes around. What firms are struggling now? Reed Smith, Nixon? Pillsbury? THe list goes on...
What a bunch of bull...partners can say what they want but in the end there were many heartless, every man for himself type actions that left a very bitter taste in everyone's mouth and I am sorry, but words are just not enough. The place was badly managed and it was run into the ground. Associates never had proper training and they had to put up with having to scramble for work all over the firm. There was no mentoring and there was only back stabbing in and among the partnership. They all hated each other. Good luck to everyone. I am sure what goes around comes around. What firms are struggling now? Reed Smith, Nixon? Pillsbury? THe list goes on...
What a bunch of bull...partners can say what they want but in the end there were many heartless, every man for himself type actions that left a very bitter taste in everyone's mouth and I am sorry, but words are just not enough. The place was badly managed and it was run into the ground. Associates never had proper training and they had to put up with having to scramble for work all over the firm. There was no mentoring and there was only back stabbing in and among the partnership. They all hated each other. Good luck to everyone. I am sure what goes around comes around. What firms are struggling now? Reed Smith, Nixon? Pillsbury? THe list goes on...