first?

TTThelen

60 people are a winner

Former Thelen partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here, reminding you that it was not my fault that Thelen is dissolving. Blame Mark Weitzel for that.

The Glass Cock, signing out.

*I'm nervous.*

-Nervous T-10 1L

Does that mean they get to keep health insurance longer than the staff and associates???

Does that mean they get to keep health insurance longer than the staff and associates???

1 through 7 = Trash

8 = Winner

BigLaw to One Monolithic Firm!!

Correction 11 = Winner

are there 60 in nyc? cant be right

wasn't it reported earlier that they were all on the west coast?

MysTTTal

if anyone has a job lead for me please email me. i don't want to 'spook' you on halloween but i'm really nervous about getting a job.

-nervous T-10 1L

nervoust101l@yahoo.com

what about associates scheduled to start in january?

I am CONFIDENT that my firm will never dissolve.

-Confident T14 2L

Elie-you had 5 posts today---all were a total waste of time.

# 5,

Weitzel staying would not have righted the listing ship; Thelen Titanic was going down anyhow.

Weitzel (among others), however, could be blamed for not pursuing a growth strategy that sought to diversify Thelen's client base, and for thinking that Thelen could merge its way out of its troubles.

Ironically, Thelen has a terrible record of being suckered precisely into merging with or taking over other firms that themselves needed rescuing by a deep-pocket savior to take on their debts and troubled personnel (can everyone in the house say say Britton, Silberman & Cervantes, at the height of the internet bubble, just right before it burst, and Brown Raysman Millstein Felder & Seiner, at the height of the housing bubble?)

History, history. Why flog the dead horse at this point.

19, Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here. Thank you for reminding everyone that it was not me, Tom Glascock, who killed Thelen. I agree with you that it was Weitzel.

where's the cravath bonus announcement. get on it.

While reports of top Thelen lawyers, including Chairman Stephen O'Neal, negotiating to move to new firms have surfaced lately, the biggest move currently in the works seems to involve about 60 partners and associates going to Nixon Peabody. The East Coast-based firm sent offer letters to the group, the vast majority of which is in San Francisco, according to a source close to Thelen. Among them is partner Jennifer Kuenster, co-chairwoman of commercial litigation and member of Thelen's partnership council. The group includes lawyers from the mass torts and labor and employment practices, the source said.

Confident, quit tryin' to ride nervous's wave.

The report that the 60 offer letters from Nixon only went to Thelen east coast/NY people is completely incorrect. Many partners in SF and LA have gotten Nixon offers and most had a deadline acceptance of yesterday. Many are reporting that the offers were very generous. Associates have not been made formal offers yet from Nixon, but offers are supposed to be forthcoming.

Hm, does 45-day deadline apply to Nixon's offers?

"The report that the 60 offer letters from Nixon only went to Thelen east coast/NY people is completely incorrect. Many partners in SF and LA have gotten Nixon offers and most had a deadline acceptance of yesterday. Many are reporting that the offers were very generous. Associates have not been made formal offers yet from Nixon, but offers are supposed to be forthcoming."

And word is Nixon is acquiring many of the attys from LA, and a chunk from SV.

Hill is in LA, though the post suggests he's in NY. The guy was a disaster as a manager. Zero leadership skills.

Same question as 13; wasn't it reported that they were all on the west coast? Anybody from NY got offers? 60 - are you sure?? Any information on the staff?

To the 644 other people at Thelen who received a WARN Notification on 10/30/08:

We may very well have the makings of a class-action lawsuit, and, if things keep going as they are, we may very well need to file one to GET WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

BROKEN LAW: Their MANDATORY 60 DAY WARN ACT NOTICE was only 30 days, which is in violation of the law, yet they blame this on their bank. This is a federal law, the law does not care what their bank says. They are responsible for meeting this obligation. Period. Their bank is not responsible to meet this obligation. I don't care what the bank says and neither does Federal law. Show me the money! THEY SHOULD BE PAYING US UNTIL DECEMBER 30, 2008 ACCORDING TO FEDERAL LAW.

BROKEN PROMISE: At the staff meeting in NY on Tuesday 10/28 Doug Davidson (he of the Dissolution Committee who we would hope would know what he is talking about on the matter of Thelen's dissolution) stated that the bank approved paying our benefits up until November 30 and the FIRM decided it would definitely pay our benefits up until December 31. He explicitly promised us that! Then on Oct 30 we get a WARN Act email stating that our benefits will be paid until November 30 and we "might" have the possibility of COBRA (paying it for ourselves plus an administration fee) beyond November 30, 2008. IN TWO DAYS, THE ALREADY BAD DEAL GETS WORSE. Also, if a firm goes out of business, who is going to administer a COBRA plan anyway? There is no firm left anymore to do it!

POSSIBLE BROKEN OFFER LETTERS/BROKEN EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS: Now the rumor is that Thelen thinks that besides making us "wait" until sometime in 2009 (if ever) for accrued vacation time to be paid because the big bad bank "won't let them," they are going to try and dis-accrue vacation we have already accrued retroactive to the October 15 paycheck (which makes it the entire month of October) and then not allow us to accrue vacation for the month of November. In my offer letter, the vacation terms were clearly stated, and unlike bonuses and raises, vacation time was NOT at the discretion of management.

WHAT ELSE IS TO COME? HAVEN'T THEY SCREWED US ENOUGH?

Guys in my high school used to wind down dissolving law firms all the time, it was no big deal.

#29, worse yet, Tom Hill said at our meeting on Tuesday that they made an agreement with the bank that we get healthcare benefits until December 31st. I WAS PISSED when I got the Warn act.

Word of advice- hold onto all evidence you have! Missed vacation time not paid, missed bonus time not paid, lack of warn act notification, lack of medical healthcare benefits as promised on which some of us relied... etc... there will DEFINITELY be a lawsuit.

#29, worse yet, Tom Hill said at our meeting on Tuesday that they made an agreement with the bank that we get healthcare benefits until December 31st. I WAS PISSED when I got the Warn act.

Word of advice- hold onto all evidence you have! Missed vacation time not paid, missed bonus time not paid, lack of warn act notification, lack of medical healthcare benefits as promised on which some of us relied... etc... there will DEFINITELY be a lawsuit.

#29, worse yet, Tom Hill said at our meeting on Tuesday that they made an agreement with the bank that we get healthcare benefits until December 31st. I WAS PISSED when I got the Warn act.

Word of advice- hold onto all evidence you have! Missed vacation time not paid, missed bonus time not paid, lack of warn act notification, lack of medical healthcare benefits as promised on which some of us relied... etc... there will DEFINITELY be a lawsuit.

thelen to nixon

is like skadden to cadwalader

from bad to zomgshit

just kidding - all these firms with the brooklyn law big brains just ROCK!

I understand why most partners and associates wouldn't care about incoming associates, but the fact that the hiring partners don't seem to give a shit is really disconcerting.

29, 33 and others:

Stop the BS about a lawsuit - if you do this NOW you will completely screw your fellow employees of any chance of their getting their 30 days paid and the medical coverage through December - those verbal promises are contingent on the firm meeting it's billing and collection targets over the next six weeks or so - there is time enough to do this in January or February if they don't come through but starting this kind of talk now will be ruinous to all of us.

36 -- At the NY meeting, there was no mention of "verbal promises are contingent on the firm meeting it's billing and collection targets over the next six weeks or so." The mention of health insurance through 12/31/08 was stated like it was a done deal. The payment of accrued vacation time and the payment of additional wages for the missing 30 days of the WARN act were both stated as not approved by their bank, but the partnership will do it sometime after 2008. What you don't seem to understand is that these things are not at their discretion; it is the law that they must pay us for them. As far as I know, nobody has started a lawsuit right now, but with the instantaneous way they reneged on the health insurance benefits continuing through 12/31,.things are looking suspect and like we cannot trust them to honor their word. Plus the rumor that they are actually thinking of taking away all the vacation we accrued in October and not accruing anything for November is outrageous. I certainly hope this is only a rumor. We should be aware of our rights and not be sitting ducks. Being too passive and letting them get away with things that they should not get away with is what is going to be ruinous to all of us.

I see several complaints about "not getting enough notice" from incoming first years to Thelen who thought they were going to start in January 2009.

With all due respect, you ended up getting more notice than actual employees did. If you were supposed to start in 1/09, you got over 2 months' notice. Actual employees, many of whom have been working for Thelen for YEARS, only got 30 days' notice, even though the law requires 60 days. So in terms of notice you made out better than people who actually worked at Thelen.

I feel for you in terms of your predicament. Maybe you can sue them for breach of contract.

Thelen still has a lot of rain makers left who are valuable and will go to other good law firms and continue to practice law and put this nightmare behind them. Still to, there are many associates with large books of business who firms should be fighting to have as part of their team.

Thomas Hill is a sell out. He speaketh with fork tongue. Please get the word out about the WARN Act, advise everyone including staff, you'll need them for the lawsuit. The lucky ones were those that were laid off in March, they received what was rightfully theirs and severance pay.

Those that approved the past mergers are to blame for this mess and Tom Hill was always willing to get Thelen into a bigger hole when it would benefit him. Of course, many former partners have moved onto greener pastures and have left every else with this disaster.

The associates will find jobs much easier than the staff, that's just the way the job market is. A very sad ending to a firm that would have been 85 years old next year.

The truly lucky ones were those who were layed off in the original merger of Brown Raysman and Thelen. Brown Raysman really took care of their people in the severance packages they gave.

Tom Hill has no management skills.

Don't believe the hype - - This group of management is out solely to protect themselves, just like is has always been.

Can't believe MLB will take Igoe, Baker and Jolles -- three has beens / never weres.

The rest of the utility group thinks its the belle of the ball - boy do they have some waking up to do. They won't be protected / coddled at the next shop the way they were at Thelen. It's every person for themselves kiddies.

Igoe to work each day and pick my toe nails.

David "I'm a steward of the [going out of business] corporate department" Graybeal

Shout out to Baker - hey Bill, PUHCA was repealed years ago. Just retire.

These guys are clowns.

Current partners and management are trying to time the loss on furniture, etc. to avoid having such losses allocated to them for 2008 and instead being borne by a wider group, including creditors.

Distributions for 2008 were advances against Net Income. With the loss for 2008, all 2008 cash distributions were advances against a loss, and must be repaid.

This means that the TTThelen partners should make no money for 2008 !

Happy holidays team ! There will be coal in your stockings.

Gubar is laughing

Did we mention our crack management committee's decisions to --

(1) Pay bonuses for an office build out where they could not fill the offices

(2) Pay bonuses for a merger with BRS that caused the firm to go under

Way to go guys

Partners and associates were supposed to respond to Nixon offers by this last Friday. I imagine a few others are going to go public with accepted offers elsewhere today. Can people please post and let us know where everyone is going?

Thank God Thelen is dead.

So if I was supposed to start in January and I already took the $10K advance on my salary, do I have to pay that back? Thanks.

48 --- shhhhhh!! don't tell anyone!! they are so busy over here they probably forgot you took an advance.

29 & 32 - I'm a Thelen associate and expect to know next week whether I'll be getting an offer from the firm the partner I work for is going to. If I don't, I intend to file a class action suit (if someone else doesn't beat me to it). Am considering retaining Nichols Kaster, same firm representing the Heller plaintiffs, but am researching other firms.

I'll keep you advised via ATL.

29 & 32 - I'm a Thelen associate and expect to know next week whether I'll be getting an offer from the firm the partner I work for is going to. If I don't, I intend to file a class action suit (if someone else doesn't beat me to it). I'm considering retaining Nichols Kaster, same firm representing the Heller plaintiffs, but I'm researching other firms.

I'll keep you advised via ATL.

sue 'em

#50, this is #32 here. I am with you... I too am waiting to find out this week. Regardless if I get an offer, though, I still think a class action is the way to go. Even the L & E partners I talk to can't believe what Thelen is doing...

#53- Have you considered which firm to retain?
Thanks.

#54- Not yet. Most L & E partners I talk to do not want to give me hints on who would be best in taking their money! I figure if all else fails, Nichols Kaster will be a viable option.

I wonder just how "limited liability" is the LLP in Thelen LLP for each of the partners if they were individually named in a lawsuit.

If Kastor is too busy with Heller, try Jeffrey A. Jannuzzo. His victory for an ex-Thelen partner was recently upheld. His specialty is partnership disputes, but he takes other cases too. He might be interested in this one.

any updates about the possilbe lawsuit? or forcing the partnership into bankruptcy?

#53 here. I've been in touch with Steve Blum of Blum & Collins in L.A. They're a boutique firm specializing in employment litigation representing plaintiffs and have class action experience. Anyone on this board know anything about them?

I'm not in CA or NY. It would be very helpful if we could get 2 more plaintiffs, either 1 from each state or 2 from the same.

Post on this board if you're interested and I'll give you their contact info.

Better move fast muthafuckers or there will be nobody to address the lawsuit TO.

As disclosed in the elegantly entitled "Morgan Lewis Shaves Some Meat Off the Thelen Carcass," a full 1/3 of Thelen's loyal "dissolution committee," Doug Davidson, is jumping ship for MLB.

I think we should just shake tin cups in the Partners' neighbor's faces outside their multimillion dollar co-ops wearing sandwich board signs describing how these PILLARS OF SOCIETY, BIGLAW PARTNERS,are willfully breaking the law by fucking over their employees. Their high and mighty neighbors may want to run the riffraff Partners out of their co-op before they cause damage to THEIR PRECIOUS BUILDINGS' reputations.

As a recipient of Thelen's wrath, I never thought the tables would turn like this.

I was a pilot for Emery Worldwide Airlines. In 2001, Emery's parent company (c/k/a "Con-way"-- appropriately named), decided to outsource all of Emery's flying to contract airlines.

In collusion with MLB and Hogan & Hartson in DC, Con-way was able to perpetrate a perfectly-timed "surprise" FAA shutdown of Emery--a force majeure--that allowed Emery to rid itself of its contract with its pilot group and continue its freight forwarding operation with contract carriers without missing a beat.

http://home.att.net/~emery17now/Op-Ed1.htm

Over the past seven years, Thelen's labor division in SFO has done an incredible job (regretfully for the pilots) defending its client against a litany of lawsuits and claims by the pilots.

Thelen's partners often joked about the pilots making them rich over all the litigation against its client. The irony is that they too may now see what it's like to start over after climbing the ladder for so many years.

61 --- don't bet on it. First rule of RICH PEOPLE: steal cheat lie be as cheap as possible cheat your employees and don't pay them what they are owed even if you are breaking the law and do ANYTHING to make sure you have more money than you can spend in SEVERAL LIFETIMES!!!!!

BIGLAW partners, such as those at THELEN qualify as bona fide rich people in these respects and just by the unfair and ILLEGAL way they are treating their employees have proved themselves to be what they truly are.

Start over? They will play golf instead and try and figure out ways to live longer than they typical human lifespan in order to spend more of their money before landing in the grave and seeing us in Hell later.

Perhaps the 645 regular employees they gave the WARN notice to and the flotsom and jetsam of associates that will get abandoned in this mess CAN ALL GET TOGETHER WITH THEIR TIN CUPS AND SANDWICH BOARDS AND INVADE THE PARTNERS' COUNTRY CLUBS, CO-OPS, DRIVEWAYS TO EXCLUSIVE GATED COMMUNITIES, FAMILY ESTATES, YACHT CLUBS, ETC., AND DEMONSTRATE!

IT WOULD BE A FINE DICKENSIAN CHRISTMAS!

Out of curiosity, how long did it normally take to make partner at Thelen? Is there a big difference in future hireability between a partner and an associate? Looks like quite a few Thelenites are going over to Nixon this month, including the partner that did such a good job on the Emery litigation.

Thelenites-

A class action complaint has been drafted and should be filed this week.

A federal class action was filed in the Northern District of California. Named plaintiffs are Adam Bergman, Kendrick Patterson, Andrea Levy and Michael Attanesi. They are NY and CT employees (three associates and the IT manager.) The Calif employees will be joined in later so they don't lose their waiting time penalties (an added benefit to living in Calif.)

If Thelen dissolves or BKs, the federal case will seek compensation on a successor liability theory from firms like Nixon Peabody and others that took in large groups of Thelen partners.

Who said there was no merger? There were lots of mergers and the successors will pay their due.