First?

First! Fordham Rules!

He is full of it just like Joan King, Esq. is full of it.

*applies to dechert, asks if it's okay to ask for a sabbatical during 1L summer...will they still pay me?*

-nervous T-10 1L

Damage Control Now!

yes!!!! yes!!!! i was first!!!! this is so fucking awesome.

suck it #2

-#1

DecherTTT

These people who got spun off to pro bono firms - are they getting any money from Dechert? A decreased salary? Or are they just off Dechert's books and getting paid lousy public interest money?

This guy is a class act. He responds to your story on another blog? What a condescending a-hole move.

9 - I don't know, but I'd imagine if they weren't getting paid Dechert salary there would be a lot of screaming going on, and Mr. Winokur would not be forthcoming about the program.

well, bart's comments confirm one simple truth - dechert is a shlock shop. i mean, if the managing partner can't get his shit straight...

seriously bart, just put your mouth back around your boyrfriend's dick and stop talking. first to say that bart is a fucktard of the highest order. may god have mercy on his stupid fucking soul.

-v5 lawyer (with a potty mouth to boot and who is upset that bart and em went to same law school)

Public relations disaster. The only way to deal with bad news like this is to give it out all at once, and be completely honest about it, no matter how cut-throat the firm is being. Better to appear cut-throat than cut-throat and sneaky.

Winokur has ruined a fine law firm out of sheer hubris and greed.

Winokur is ruining the fine name and reputation of weasels world wide.

all this dechert stuff is getting out of control. wow. what idiots. now they have several blogs and publications covering this. every time someone googles them stuff about this will pop up. NEVER let your chairman talk about layoffs. do they even have a marketing or PR department to deal with inquiries?

I call bullshit on this guy.

The PR debacle is amusing, though this is not funny for those let go, or those remaining who clearly have no idea where they stand and likely have the morale of a boot camp grunt about now.

Dear 7,

You are not first. One is first only when they declare it. Your utterance was a mere questionm as indicated by the question mark. Neither you, nor 2, declared “First. ” As such, and by automatic operation of the rule, "Fordham Rules" is first.

it's always, ALWAYS, A-L-W-A-Y-S, the cover up that gets you.

Winokur should know better.

CWT Link v. Dechert Bart...who would have ever thought that the managing partner from a TTT school would be a better speaker than the managing partner from Harvard.

19 - Nobody likes you. Go fuck yourself

-#1/7 (Upset that #19 may have a point)

I like your posts Elie but I can do without you telling me what "the real point here" is. That type of conclusion smacks of something i'd except to see in a high school essay.

the people who are doing the pro bono sabitical are getting paid the same as normal associates

LOL, Penn

Lawyers like Bart give assholes a bad name.

Seriously - how about more Heller news?

- Bart W.

DLA is next

Good post Elie. 23--before criticizing do your own proofreading

SkaddenDC

A few points on the prior thread -

1. 3 months is NOT a long time to find a new job if you have been in a niche market for several years and the niche is no longer profitable. I doubt there are as many transactional jobs posted in Philly in the last six months as there are people let go by Dechert. NY and DC markets are no better considering the numbers let go (esp. in NY) by other firms. Forget about Charlotte. These (in Philly) are people who could have gone to Ballard, Drinker, Pepper, etc. to begin with AND WOULD STILL HAVE THEIR JOBS but who might not be able to get jobs at those places today. They may be waiting for the economy to heat up. Hello contract work. The point is the Dechert hired some of the most talented young lawyers in Philly and RUINED their careers.

2. It IS normal for the old boss to make a few phone calls to help the shitcanned underlings get a new job, IF the underling was let go because of a bad market and not for poor performance. It is an act of kindness that can help the departed overcome the stigma created by said shitcanning.

3. Shearman pulled this "performance" crap maybe six years ago when they canned a quarter of their associates. Most firms have since learned that to claim "performance" is cruel, counterproductive and costly. Dechert is making a huge mistake.

Why are lawyers such awful managers?? He apparently tried to save a few bucks with this convoluted charade, but it'll cost the firm at least a few hundred thousand dollars to repair its image once the "war for talent" picks up again. Law students have long memories. Dechert will spend a lot more giving out tacky toys at OCI to compensate for its tarnished image than it would have just being upfront and taking the hit now.

Ever heard of a cost-benefit analysis?

this is a chimera.

-uva

Wow, this guy must be supremely arrogant and lacking in all perception - how else did he get sucked into defending himself on the INTERNET, without even once realizing that he was playing a game he couldn't win. It's always amazing when otherwise intelligent, highly paid professionals demonstrate that they are, at bottom, gigantic douchebags. You also have to wonder about the partners around him at Dechert, they must all hate him. For them it's a win-win: they get to pretend to cheer him on for defending the firm, while secretly they know he's fucking himself.

crickets.....

32: with the way the economy is looking, OCI and SA programs may change forever. It's looking like a buyer's market might pick up again, and Corporate work is done.

Thanks a lot UVA ... your stealth layoffs have infected the entire system.

28 - what is going on at DLA?

Bart's comments are a joke and stink of terribly devised PR. He is 100% full of shit -- there is no work for associates to advance to "higher levels of work."

Anyone notice that Bart never said he didn't make the statements quoted in the Intelligencer? Wow, not just a liar, but a shitty one at that.

Just buck up and admit that you are a terrible manager with a dying book of business. Don't throw your associates under the bus with upir "better people" line of crap.

Will your clients be billed for the last few years of shoddy work by your purportedly subpar associates? Douchebag.

Bart's comments are a joke and stink of terribly devised PR. He is 100% full of shit -- there is no work for associates to advance to "higher levels of work."

Anyone notice that Bart never said he didn't make the statements quoted in the Intelligencer? Wow, not just a liar, but a shitty one at that.

Just buck up and admit that you are a terrible manager with a dying book of business. Don't throw your associates under the bus with upir "better people" line of crap.

Will your clients be billed for the last few years of shoddy work by your purportedly subpar associates? Douchebag.

ah, i can't wait until firms send people packing right before Thanksgiving...always a good time so associates leave for the long weekend, and don't come back. and i can't wait for firms to make up even more ridic reasons...

Don't you guys get it -- this will start happening at every single firm. There is just not enough work to go around and so firms will have to cut -- and in some cases cut a lot.

I predict that, by the time the economy finally starts picking up (in 2012 or so), 50% of us will be out of the job. Mark this post.

Better take a screen shot, 42.

Good post Elie. Please keep covering this story.

Can't wait to see the life this story takes on in the morning hours.

Wow, score one ATL. Chairman and CEO, you just got "schooled" by this "tabloid." Ha ha. Nice.

Survival of the fittest. Only the V15 will be left standing. Except for Weil, of course.

I don't think you've parsed (1) correctly. I think it also leaves open the possibility that some associates were fired...just fewer than 10. And, while (3) forecloses the possibility that associates were fired in response to structured finance difficulties, it does not foreclose the possibility that associates were fired for reasosn other than structured finance difficulties.

Will Milbank survive this storm? Or will it go bust like the remainder of the V15-100?

Anyone who thinks the V10 is immune from this fallout is fucking kidding themselves. STB, Latham, and Cleary are all doing some serious cutting on the DL. And Skadden DC is a shitstorm.

DLA Chicago axed their firm Holiday Party. I'm sure the staff will love that move.

DLA Chicago axed their firm Holiday Party. I'm sure the staff will love that move.

Great update Elie.

To the (few?) remaining Dechert associates: any word yet from Winokur as to how long y'all have?

Bart "Simpson" Winokur:

I believe Bart Simpson is more believable than Bart Winokur. Perhaps the lying weasel Winokur should study some of these quotes attributable to his more well know and respected namesake in preparation for his next belching to the press.

“I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!” So true.

“I never thought it was humanly possible, but this both sucks and blows.” Where is my $8 million?

“I am not my long-lost twin” That would be mini me.

“I am not a 32 year old woman” - HOW TRUE- But I would bang one if I could get one to let me!

“I am not the new Dalai Lama” But I do have an ego the size of Texas.

“Dear God. We paid for all this stuff ourselves, so thanks for nothing.” And screw you associates!

“Mom, can we go Catholic so we can get communion wafers and booze?” Booze and lots of it.

“There's no such thing as a soul. It's just something they made up to scare kids, like the boogeyman or Michael Jackson.” Bart Winokur is....THE BOOGEYMAN!

“I will not trade pants with others” Nobody on earth can fill my pants anyway.

“My butt does not deserve a website” - HOW TRUE!!!

“I do not have power of attorney over first graders” Just discretion to lie and screw over honorable hard working and intelligent associates.

“I will not dissect things unless instructed” I lied, I'll do whatever I damn well please.

“I will not bring sheep to class” I will instead bring them to my bedroom.

“A burp is not an answer” Unless it comes out of my mouth.

“Well, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.” So you may as well lie anyway.

“My name is not Dr. Death” It is in fact Dr. Stealth Lay-Off.

“The truth is not out there” How true, how true.....

“All work and no play makes Bart a dull boy” Or, all play and no work makes Bart Winokur a jackass.

“I will not do anything bad ever again” Winokur....cross your fingers behind your back for this one. Really, it works.

“I am not licensed to do anything” But lie through my teeth.

“Don't have a cow, man.” Bart really, don't have a cow man. Just man up and tell THE TRUTH you weasel.

#42 -- as someone said yesterday, the high-quality, conservatively managed firms that focus on core competencies will be just fine (williams & connolly and munger and quinn come to mind). anyone who went nuts in hiring and whose revenues from corp are > 30% are screwed.

the problem with firms like quinn, though, is that they rely on contingency fees -- ie, they need BANKS to give them credit to finance operations. not good.

The best part is that even before Dechert had these layoffs and publicly lied about it numerous times, the firm had a number of meetings to try and figure out why associate morale (Mid-level Associate Survey) is in the toilet. Really? We need to pay consultants to come in to figure out why associates at Dechert are much more miserable than your average Biglaw associate?

This would be much funnier if it wasn't my place of employment.

55 -- Don't the vast majority of firms get more than 30% of their revenues from corporate/transactional work? How are you defining "corporate"?

Also, how nervous should 3L's with offers be right now? I accepted my offer, made my practice group selections (although probably not the best one's given the recent market crash), but am seriously growing concerned that my firm will HAVE to cut people, including incoming first years.

Should 3L'S be seeking out other options at this point? Can I ask someone from my firm about whether having my offer revoked is a real possibility?

Please, only serious replies.

Winokur - here's another anonymous comment - you're ugly and stupid. No, really, you're ugly and you're stupid. Again, ugly and stupid describe you. In sum, you're stupid and ugly. Thanks for playing. Loser.

No, you pay consultants to generate a survey that says associate moral in your firm is not as bad as advertised. That and to find out who the naysayers are so that they end up in the next batch of layoffs.

I smell more bs on the way.

47, why would you suggest that weil will face more challenges than other v15? support your statement, unless you are simply trolling because you are bitter over not receiving a v10 offer

What are all these comments about trouble at Skaddwn DC? Any details?

59 - sure, why not? it's quashed the diversity problem at Dct, why not the morale issue too?

shit DLA cancelled their holiday party? I smell an impending bankruptcy filing...

i think every firm should probably cancel their christmas party. time to tighten up, cut the bs, so you can hopefully not have to cut the people.

I am sorry for all of the people at Dechert and elsewhere that got laid off, stealth or otherwise. Dechert is a hellhole, anyone who has worked "with" them knows this, although not as much as the people who have worked there. The comments about crappy junior associate work are dead on.

It makes sense that underperforming associates (partners would be nice) get the axe first. You shouldn't make 185k if you bill 1400 hours a year. I work at a large firm and we have a certain % of people who just coast, bad economy or not, they just coast for longer now because it's hard for them to find other jobs. I think the decent managers/PR people will call it "economy-related," because even if some of these people were underperforming (either because there isn't enough work, or because they just don't do the work well), they probably would be permitted to stick around a lot longer in a different economy.

But we are kidding ourselves if we think recruiters are going to look differently on people who were "performance" layoffs vs. "economy" layoffs, in this economy. People get it.

There are 2 Winokur's at Dechert--is this a father-son team? Is the son's job safe?

He's running a business, and this is how businesses are run. The sense of entitlement lawyers have is ridiculous. We are well-paid - we need to understand that not hiring us, and letting go some of us they've hired in the past, are decisions that can be necessary to run an efficient business.

Whatever happened at Dechert, it is a shame that decent people's lives are being ruined in this manner.

Sure, but being a duplicitous cunt about it is entirely unnecessary.

After hour rumblings in several bars in DC are less than positive. Bars are supposed to be relaxing. All anyone is talking about is V5 cuts this yeah but V7 laid off that. Igghh.

67, I agree except that in a partnership in which the managers are the owners (and are in it for the extreme long term) I would think that long-term thinking would rule.

Layoffs seem pretty short-sighted. If they did nothing most of those laid off would leave within 3-5 years anyway. If they want to cut costs with the long-term health of their partnership in mind, why ruin their reputation among new grads and laterals?

32 thinks OCI is going to allow students any buying power going forward. Quaint.

67, I agree. I'm just a lowly 2L, so I don't have any experience in firms, but the sense of entitlement that oozes from these comments is pretty sickening. It appears that many simply expect their firm to carry them regardless of the financial health or their performance. I find it somewhat hard to believe that a true performer in a strong practice group that has work is being fired. I don't see any reason to disbelieve the "performance" basis for the firings, regardless of when formal reviews are given. Moreover, if you're an attorney in a group that has no work, what do you expect them to do, keep paying you $15k/month or more to sit in your office and fuck around on the internet? The economy is going through a downturn, law firms are slowing and they still expect to make some profit. One place to cut is idle labor. Granted, some more transparency would be nice, but claiming that firms are "ruining peoples lives" by letting them go is a bit dramatic. I don't dispute that being let go from such a job is likely financially and emotionally crushing, but it's not the firms duty to keep you on if you're not generating (sufficient) revenue.

Bart Winokur is apparently unaware that ATL is considered the definitive source for news and gossip related to associate hiring, compensation, and layoffs---and not the WSJ Law Blog, particularly post Peter Lattman (but even during Peter’s leadership.)

By this I mean that ATL has traditionally broken more associate compensation news more frequently and is more often cited as a source for such stories than any other on-line resource.

That said, anonymous comments on ATL (as distinguished from ATL verified sources and tipsters that receive anonymous attribution) are not the same thing as ATL saying a certain thing is true. Far from it.

I know for a fact that associates are being cut this week so in January, check back in with Bart and ask him why he didn't think it relevant to mention that Dechert was in the process of laying off associates while he was quibbling about the number of associates laid off in July. This guy is worse than Pavlov's dogs, he just never learns. I'm getting the hell out. Does Dechert really think that people who are not laid off will have any loyalty given this type of behavior?

i accepted my offer with dechert and declined others. how can i get one of those other offers back? is this ever done? (serious question)

and 67, the point you're missing is that while the Dechert partnership needs to run its business as it sees fit, it can at least be upfront about what it's doing. trying to save face by framing those let go as substandard attorneys just sucks. Winky's weaseling is despicable. he should just admit that the firm bet big on high-margin work while ditching all of its lower-margin (bit steadier) work, and got burnt. that's a management failure, and isn't the fault of the employees. it's OK to lay off employees, but at least be honest about it. what a scumbag.

kudos to Elie for hanging onto this story.

We interviewed a number of Dechert midlevels. Mostly nice folks, but we couldn't make room for them. I wish the best to those who haven't gotten out yet. Didn't their partners get a HUGE tax break from moving to Cira Center in Philly that went right to their bottom line? Once you have a big year, it's hard to have a year in which you make less. The good firms plan around this.

31 hit the nail on the head. glad i chose one of those firms over Dechert.

They aren't the only one trying to layoff employees and not being honest about it. I am sure all of you who watch this site have heard about Tyler Cooper, well they are not the only Hartford, CT firm having trouble. It is rumored that a midsize firm in Hartford is starting off their first round of layoffs with staff, but associates are to follow. Work has really been slow in Hartford, and the partners are trying to protect their bottom line (or is it their pockets?).

67 here again - 77, I think it's not always possible to be up-front. They don't know what's going to happen with the economy - nobody does. So they really don't know if they can guarantee no more layoffs, which I am sure they would if they could for reputation purposes. But, given this economy, it's not nearly as much of a reputation hit if you do have to let people go. If anything, your clients will respect that you had to make tough, smart decisions as a firm, which is what lawyers need to do.

67 here again - 77, I think it's not always possible to be up-front. They don't know what's going to happen with the economy - nobody does. So they really don't know if they can guarantee no more layoffs, which I am sure they would if they could for reputation purposes. But, given this economy, it's not nearly as much of a reputation hit if you do have to let people go. If anything, your clients will respect that you had to make tough, smart decisions as a firm, which is what lawyers need to do.

How hard would it have been for Winokur to simply say "Due to the recent developments in the marketplace, the firm has made the difficult, but we feel, necessary decision to lay of xyz associates/attorneys/staff. This is a hard decision, as we feel these are outstanding lawyers, but given the situation and the best interests of the firm..." or something to that effect? Now anyone with a brain and a choice (which may be in short supply in this market) would be wise to look at all other options before choosing Dechert. If the role of the managing partner is to effectively "manage" the firm, Bart's showing today merits his joining all those "subpar" associates in the unemployment line.

1st year associate thankfully not at Dechert

Congrats, Elie, you've made it.

When Dechert's PR people thought they could snow you with denials they had no problem talking to you.

Now that you've investigated them like a real journalist and hammered them they're pissed and will ignore you.

But don't worry- as Lat has found, the final stage of their grief will be acceptance, and after you finish slamming them on this scandal they'll just come out and CC you on the internal e-mails for the next one.

what is going on with skadden dc?

Bart Winokur is a stinky douchebag.

Congrats, Elie, you've made it.

When Dechert's PR people thought they could snow you with denials they had no problem talking to you.

Now that you've investigated them like a real journalist and hammered them they're pissed and will ignore you.

But don't worry- as Lat has found, the final stage of their grief will be acceptance, and after you finish slamming them on this scandal they'll just come out and CC you on the internal e-mails for the next one.

Some posters have stated that Dechert's Charlotte office would be closing shop within the next 6 months . . . does anyone have any information on that or is that purely speculative?

67, 81: If you want to look at the debacle as the the guy is running a business, that's fine. When a factory lays off 1000 workers, at least they are upfront about it. The fired workers may not have been the best or they may have been the workers with the least seniority. Those workers are not shamed; the business accepts that the economy is slowing. The workers will find jobs somewhere else, eventually, and the business may recover. It's the capitalist cycle of life.

Being lawyer is little different. I am sure at some point Dechert sold itself on integrity, on ability, on professionalism - something harking back to the old idea that being a lawyer is not a vocation, but a career.

When a firm lays off good decent people, for whatever ever reason, in a manner that tries to hide the truth of a weak business model, it shames professionals. Yes, 40,000 new graduates will come out of law school with a JD, making laid off lawyers are fungible, but each of the new grads and the laid off lawyers worked hard to become a professional. To treat each and everyone less than that is demeaning.

By doing what Dechert did, in my opinion, is unforgivable.

There are better ways to do it and Cravath showed how it should have been done.

Not 10, let alone 30. That doesn't mean it's not, say, 27. 27 is not 10, let alone 30.

Congrats, Elie. Good job!

What the abused minion needed was a voice. Lat brought transparency to this profession and you now showed you can hold your own with Lat.

By my estimation, at least a 100 monitors at my firm, kept updating your site through out the day. Little beady eyes of the minion who each spent 19 years on an education and each thinking there but for the . . .

Why is Charlotte in such a meltdown mode? Isn't B of A there.

If Indian lawyers working for $3/hr are the supposed great saviors of partners, why wouldn't Charlotte lawyers? At my firm, Charlotte attorneys get a reduced salary (something like 1/3 less) and the billing rates are commensurately lower. So, why are they not laying off NYC, CHI, SF attorneys and sourcing their work to Charlotte?

Elie,

You better start proofreading because you are going to be blackballed in BigLaw if you get fuck this job up.

Paul Hastings (Atlanta, DC) is once again doing its "stealth" layoffs of perfectly good associates... incoming 2L SAs BEWARE- you have been warned.

What are the chances that my offer gets revoked before I start in September 2009?

---
Scared 3L going to a V30

Because TTT attorneys are in Charlotte.

Whatever happened at Dechert, it is a shame that decent people's lives are being ruined in this manner.

my firm is unionizing. they can lay us off, but we expect 5 years severance, w/ full benefits and re-training programs. we'll pass the costs on to all the clients who vote for obama.

I haven't heard anything suggesting that Dechert will close its Charlotte office. A lot of the lawyers who are still there do financial services/regulatory work, not securitization. I don't know if they're busy or not.

Skadden's annual reviews haven't been conducted yet., so they are not doing stealth layoffs-- not yet anyway. From what I've been told, they do have staff attorneys on 6 month contracts and may not have picked up a couple due to 10-15 new litigation associates starting this fall.

I am glad this story is getting coverage, BUT ELIE DESERVES NO CREDIT.

He tried to discredit the idea that Dechert was letting people go.

He accepted, without any snarkiness, Dechert's spokepersons explanation.

He attacked a commentator who dared to suggest he was wrong.

He resisted numerous calls to post something, anything on Dechert to flush them out.

He basically admitted, deep in the Dechert post that he knew nothing.

It took about 10 different people who all knew the truth to keep posting on ATL and to demand they follow up.

This lead to a response from Dechert.

I appreciate ATL providing a forum for us to speak, but praising Elie for being late to the party is a bit of a joke. I am sure Elie is man enough to admit that - in fact he sort of did (without linking to the posts) already.

What are the chances that my offer gets revoked before I start in September 2009?

---
Scared 3L going to a V30

92, I think the problem in Charlotte is that salaries are closer to New York than to, say, Nashville. A lot of large firms with offices in secondary markets are doing exactly what you've described. For a firm like Sonnenschein, though, sending the work to St. Louis or KC is even cheaper than sending it to Charlotte.

The real question is whether Dechert will go through with any further lay offs in the short term. Many posters have said that Dechert is drawing the lay offs out so as to better conceal them. That plan has been shot to hell. Now that the firm is under a microscope, how will Dechert deal with having too many lawyers and not enough work? No amount of damage control is going to take the spotlight off Dechert's shady practices.

Bart is full of lies. This firm is awful and I'm so ashamed that I ever worked there. Yes, I am a victim of "stealth" layoffs.

1. There isn't "better" work for the midlevel associates. There is NO work to speak of and midlevels have been doing paralegal work for years. Several practice groups have been SLOW or without work since August 2007. I would like to know what glamorous work he is talking about.

2. I know for a fact that the FRE group has been gutted and more associates and even partners are next on the chopping block. Corporate and bankruptcy are on the list as well. I wonder why the corporate department isn't "killing it" with Derek Winokur (yes, son of the CEO douchebag Bart Winokur) running things. I thought he was a heavy hitting gun from Cleary? Yeah, right. He's a joke just like his dad. Derek lateraled - sorry (diagonaled?) - into the firm as partner with no book of business to speak of. That's not surprising since he was an associate at Cleary. He's not the official head of the group, but the poor partner who is can't go against the managing partner's son.

3. Dechert has always been about "fudging" the numbers. They even admitted to be market followers and not wanting to be market leaders when it comes to bonuses and market pay scales. Wow! Way to go Dechert. That's something to be proud of.

4. Dechert is also hiding the fact that they issued walking papers to hundreds of contract/staff attorneys, and staff. When they lost the Vioxx litigation it was a huge blow. They didn't expect the litigation to settle so soon and in fact they were the last to know. Dechert didn't even structure the settlement terms for the litigation that they claim to have brillantly defended. Dechert did not have enough work to keep people on the payroll.

5. Enough said...This firm will throw their staff under the bus and kill associates' careers just to get ahead. The firm is poorly managed and apparently has a crack PR department.

@89 - I really hate people who nitpick on the internet, but.. A "vocation" is a calling - like the priesthood. But your point is a good one. If we really wanted to tie ourselves to the market we would be bankers, not members of this learned profession.

@2L at 73 - you have no clue. When you land at a firm, you do what you are told for 15 hours a day. The partners bring in the business and you bill the hours. (Were you under the impression that Dechert midlevels are rainmakers?) If you get bad reviews and stay, you are a fool. But if you get consistently good reviews, and the ex-Dechert associates I know did, you are, in fact, ENTITLED, to better treatment than what Bart just publicly handed down. Apparently they performed well when they billed 2500 hours a year but suddenly are incapable of doing a good job when they are only asked to bill 800 hours a year. Guess they did their best work at 2AM.

Nobody here thinks they were entitled to keep the job at 800 hours a year (although Dechert's bad business model might have been a proximate cause of that as much as the shit economy), BUT Dechert is being singled out here for a reason. There is a reason McKee got a pass and even CWT got off easy on these pages (although you might think twice about accepting a spot at Cadwalader).

105 - ditto on the crack PR dept comment. They are very adept at manipulating the media, manufacturing a picture of happy clients. The truth is their work is shoddy, billing practices are questionable, and ethics are entirely absent.

ex-Dechert (quit after 6 months due to work environment)

Elie, I am a victim of layoffs. I have email telling me I was safe and doing a good job, and I have copies of all positive feedback I was given, including contemp emails to friends at time. I also have the proof I was let go in July, as well as an email about future layoffs in January. I think I might even be able to get 2 others on board.

So if we give you this, can you promise you will take it to Dechert? Will you call the out. I am willing to be one of those above 10 layoffs to speak out.

I was originally mad when Dechert did not offer me a call-back. Thankfully I am going to a much more respectable V30. Dechert is a festering TTT. They think that because they are the best in Philly (although Morgan Lewis may be better) that they are all of a sudden at the level of Cravath. This just furthers Dechert's fall to the bottom of the Vault rankings.

Number 108 at 12:04. Bravo. Take it to them.

To the Dechert PR people up late reading this. You better call your friends at the American Lawyer and pray they don't pick this story up for the print magazine. Not every client uses the internets, but many GC would notice a write up in the American Lawyer's print edition. That would not be good for business. As it is other firms must think being in a pitch for work against you is a cake walk.

Ex-Dechert here...The work environment at Dechert was abysmal. Very little partner contact and zero associate development. Don't even think of mentorship. Morale at Dechert has always been very low. Associates were always left hanging and had the worst time even getting a partner on the phone. Some partners didn't show up for weeks at a time. Yet they never had any new business.

It's so weird, because Dechert used to be a well-respected firm. What other formerly regional firms are susceptible to the market tanking?

Good point 110. Does anyone have any contacts at the American Lawyer they can pitch this too? Winokur's repeated outright lies deserve print coverage.

someone PLEAS STOP "nervous T-10 1L"

thank you
confident t-1 0L

someone PLEAS STOP "nervous T-10 1L"

thank you
confident t-1 0L

To: 108

Right on! Please get with Elie because this is an important story. I hate the fact that Dechert thinks that they can get away with this, and in the process blacklist associates. The market is going to be very tough for former/current Dechert associates. Hopefully potential employers won't think all booted Dechert lawyers are incompetent. It sucks to be associated with such an off-brand outfit.

108 -- I'm sorry to hear that. If you would like to share your story and information with me, privately and anonymously of course, I will follow up with it as best I can. tips@abovethelaw.com.

76 -- I had a friend who accomplished this. Granted, times were much better back in the day. She called up her original OCI interviewer with the spurned firm (the person she felt she had made the best connection with). She said plainly that she had gone with the rankings (vault) over her feelings, but after thinking about it for a few days she realized that, that was the dumbest thing possible. She said that she would be willing to summer with the firm again as a 3L without promise of an offer. She had a really good line about "irrational rationale" that I can't quite remember. The firm made her sweat for a week, but they re-extended the offer (without the extra summer).

... She's still at the firm, enjoying life as best I can tell and weathering this storm. No NALP person ever came knocking at her door. I can't promise that this would work for you given the market, but it certainly can't hurt to try if you feel strongly about the matter.

Dechert turned TTT once it removed the Price and Rhoads from its name.

Then again, anything related to Philly = TTT.

elie 117 - i am happy you are up and checking. good to see you care about the post (and really about the people behind them). and obv., it is always about the people. sorry, just something i never saw before and liked.

76: Elie's suggestion is pretty solid, in my opinion.

I'm on the hiring committee at a firm in the range of V25-V50 (and following this Dechert thread with astonishment). On our committee, such a story (i.e., I've changed my mind...I love you) might get you a renewed offer if you had been very highly rated and if people remember you. However, if you were a run-of-the-mill offer from before the markets crashed, it would not work at my firm, as our standards have tightened considerably in the past 3 weeks. (Even though we are still working through our call-back students from the last two schools, our class is pretty much full.) But we would not view such an attempt negatively and would NEVER breach your confidentiality, which is the key danger.

The potential downside is that somebody at your desired firm might communicate with somebody at Dechert, thus causing Dechert to punish you for the attempt. But I think this possibility is low (less than 5%) provided you: (a) try to keep Dechert out of it, and try not to even mention it, (b) stay very, very positive about Dechert if anyone asks, and (c) emphasize that you are motivated, not by any ill-will towards your accepted firm (i.e., Dechert), but by the unique, tremendous and unforgettable people you met at your desired firm. In other words, kiss ass.

This year, I predict that such an approach is unlikely to work. (My odds: 25% if you were a very good candidate. 50% if you were excellent. 85% if you were the cream.) But you will probably not suffer ill consequences if you handle it positively and delicately. There is a small risk involved here, but given the behavior of Dechert, I personally think you should go for it.

Sorry for all of the qualifications, but this is a matter of judgment, so it's never 100% clear.

Best of luck to you!!

I have 2 excellent Dechert highlighters that they handed out w/ the breakfast they provided us during finals. playing cards too, but I really love the highlighters. They're the kind w/ the sticky notes inside of them. (is it highlighter or highliter or neither?) So there were some rosy times

50: "Anyone who thinks the V10 is immune from this fallout is fucking kidding themselves. STB, Latham, and Cleary are all doing some serious cutting on the DL. And Skadden DC is a shitstorm."

explain about stb, latham, and cleary. thanks.

Sadly, I've learned more about the goings-on at Dechert from posts on ATL than I have from working there. I'm not really surprised. Generalissimo Bart never tells us anything of substance.

Then again, FSG is kind of a "We're fine on our own and want nothing to do with Philly" practice within the firm, as its primarily based in DC, London and other non-Philly offices.

88 - the chances of Dechert closing shop in Charlotte, I've been told, are pretty good. So, yes, it is speculation. But it's not exactly a wild prediction.

Hey 65 - while underperforming associatesshould not be floated, there is a difference between underperforming and without work because of lack of business or otherwise. For years, Dechert said that it was sufficiently diversified to float the departments that were sinking, but yet it is again too good to be true. Many of the underperforming associates of '08 were be high billers, quality workers when the market was good. Should they be shitcanned immediately or given a short pass for their low hours in light of the market -- a problem not created by their purported laziness, Internet surfing or lack of drive, but shitty management?

Yes, Dechert is a business, but it is a business that some associates have spent their entire careers at. The least Dechert could do was man up and admit the work has dried up and not frame its associates.

Look, his second comment is basically saying Dechert is an "up or out" firm. Well, shocker just about every firm is structured that way.

Second, you can have good reviews but read between the lines of any review and you can see the ground work for telling someone that they aren't going to make partner and need to move on. For example, go read the girl from PH's review. Any non-biased review, will see that she wasn't going to make partner. As one gets older in a law fim, responsibilities change which includes generating business or at least demonstrating some type of acumen that would lead the partnership to view that you can bring in business. simply, sitting in your office and doing your work and billing doesn't cut it.

There are Paul Hastings lay-offs coming. My source is a partner who complained about having to do it.

^ Not trying to be snarky, but if these lay-offs are coming in ATL, my question is why on earth they are paying 160K in ATL? I believe they are the only firm in Georgia doing that...

I too confirm Paul Hastings layoffs. There may be more coming per #127, but there have been several (and I mean more than 10 in a small office like Atlanta) over the course of this year.. that # may be closer to 15, actually, with some that are being told to pack up now. And now MORE are coming...

PH is the sneakiest firm around, ala Dechert. Outside of the Shinyang Oh incident (which rightfully received pub), they've been cutting good associates left and right for over 15 months now with little press.. Time to get the word out.

@126- This is the type of thinking that pervades the management at places like Dechert and Heller. All associates know that that law firms are pyramid schemes and that very few will make partner. It does not excuse mamagement basically saying that the associates are not good at their jobs when the basic fact is that there is simply is not enough work. No matter how you slice, the demand for many types of finacne and corparate work has dried up. The laid off or soon-to-be laid off associates should not be blamed for this fact.

sorry about your tiny pink dechert bro

129: That Paul Hastings has been laying off people for awhile is not really news. The Oh incident blew the cover off that story in a big way. But, if you could provide some numbers of layoffs, that would be news.

Speaking of which, can we get a chart published listing number of layoffs this year by firm?

any more info on the princeton office?

Moves like this is likely why he's called "BACK DOOR BART"

It really must be tough working at BigLaw, get paid 180K to do what most public interest lawyers do for nothing. Cry me a river. Those poor Pro-Bono clients, nerds who have been used to xeroxing for a year and can't actually do work in a courtroom have to represent them.

132 -- I second the call for such a chart, but also include which offices.

The layoff chart should also state the layoffs numbers both in total and as a percentage of attorneys in the firm/office.

135, I hope your mother marries your father soon.

Any more info on the situation with Skadden DC and their office space?

Skadden DC has been acquired by Manchester United.

http://careers.dechert.com/

Welcome
As you think about where to start or continue your legal career, there’s a lot about Dechert we hope you’ll consider.

Dechert has become a powerhouse—a thriving international firm with over 1000 lawyers in locations throughout the United States, Europe, and Asia including New York, London, Hong Kong, Washington, Philadelphia, and California.

Dechert is filled with opportunities for you to work on fascinating matters and to learn from some of the very best lawyers in their fields. We invest in your growth, care about the quality of your experience, and strive to offer a diverse and collegial environment that cultivates learning, creativity, and the passion to grow as a professional... Read More

Bart Winokur
Chairman and CEO, Dechert LLP

I pity the fool who lays off associates and lies about it.

Mr. TTT

I think Schiff Hardin pays $160K in ATL and so does Fish - but that is IP so different.

How is the Princeton office being affected by all this? Or how will it be?

Goldman Sachs is laying off 10% of its workforce.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/23/news/companies/goldman_jobs/index.htm?postversion=2008102310

I think it's fair to say that Goldman is a bit more financially sound and diversified than Dechert. Times are tough when Goldman Sachs is hurting, so why does Dechert feel compelled to overstate how well it is doing? Is simple honesty so alien that the firm would rather lie, undermine its reputation and discard any good will it may have had with its former associates? Some associates do go on to other things and could one day be a source of business for their former colleagues at Dechert, but are far less likely to be after the firm chairman black lists them in public. Making short term profits by raising rates, shrinking the partnership, axing people before bonus time and having second rate support services is unimpressive. It's doubtful Dechert will continue to prosper in a soft economy when so many of its profits came from a flawed business model and churning documents in pointless discovery.

Dechert's FSG has a horrible reputation, particularly in London. The group is built on a model of churning out plain vanilla hedge funds but they are completely shut out of the market for higher end work.

Stealth layoffs underway at the Milwaukee firms.

146
I have also heard Dechert is shut out of high end work in London. Had the firm not gone to such lengths to slam laid off associates the firm might have been able to keep its dirty laundry in the closet.

148 - they are never even invited to bid for high end work in London. In part this is because they have huge turnover, which results in poor client service and a lack of institutional knowledge. This doesn't matter as long as they are just churning documents but makes them completely unsuited for work with any novel issues or any client seeking premium service or responsiveness. They have also lost clients because of the personality of the partner heading the group, who is a citywide laughingstock.

OMM just laid off a ton of staff in NY and LA, most offices. Sent tip to Elie, but this is not good.

OMM just laid off a ton of staff in NY and LA, most offices. Sent tip to Elie, but this is not good.

The turnover issue has been laughed off by Dechert management for years, but as 149 points out it has a detrimental affect on business. I understand that law can be a bit of a grind, but is it too much to ask not to treat one's employees and partners so poorly that they run out the door a rate much greater than the rest of BigLaw? Unfortunately for the lawyers still at Dechert, the firm is becoming a laughingstock on both sides of the Atlantic.

Are we looking at an OMM / Thelen merger situation here?

Heard the same thing about OMM. F'in scary.

143, Alston & Bird Atlanta also pays 160 to IP people (145 to everyone else).

All little Bart ever wanted was for his firm to be respected like a Tier 1 NY firm. Now, in trying to help Dechert vainly escape the taint that comes with layoffs that he caused by bad management, his very actions ensure that Dechert will never rise to that level. What irony!

OMM to OM NOM NOM!

153 - OMM doesn't have the available cash to merge with another firm. Besides, after the absolute debacle that was the O'Sullivan merger, I doubt anyone in their right minds would advocate merging with anyone.

153 - OMM doesn't have the available cash to merge with another firm. Besides, after the absolute debacle that was the O'Sullivan merger, I doubt anyone in their right minds would advocate merging with anyone.

Major announcement coming from PHJW today.

Yes, 158/159, we know that OMM doesn't have the cash, but does it have a lot of debt? Thelen management is actively looking for merger partners with lots of debt. Its a prerequisite for them to seriously consider a merger proposal.

161 - They have debt, but not a ton. Their lines of credit are solid, but partnership is nervous. Bank of America work hasn't been coming in as quickly as it needs to.

And with all the defections, why would anyone want to merge with Thelen? Take on a construction litigation practice? Doesn't make sense.

Thanks for the info on OMM 158/162. As to your serious refutation of the prospects for a merger with Thelen, all I can say is that your sense of irony must be rather poorly developed. Be advised it was a remark made in jest.

147 - I'd appreciate more information about Milwaukee layoffs, if any. I'm sure others would as well.

163 - Ah, apologies. We OMM folk have lost all sense of humor today. Probably not recoverable till after the "death squad" finishes reviewing us.

What a f*cking disaster.

165 - from a thelenite, my sympathies. FYI, Thelen's staff bloodbath happened about 4 months before the latest round of bad news. Take that for what its worth.

In every recent recession, going back to at least '91, there have been law firm layoffs. But I am beginning to suspect that the number and breadth of the layoff seen in this downturn represent a secular change from the more modest pruning that occured in prior bear markets. Probably because the greater acceptance and occurance of lateraling (both by partners and associates) that we have seen in the last 10 years or so must be coupled with an equal decrease in job security. That is also the reason why associate wage demands have increased so much over the same period of time (i.e., "if you partners aren't going to promise us associates a realistic shot at partnership, then you need to pay us alot right now"). Are we seeing the chickens of free movement between firms finally coming home to roost in this recession?

165: Based on 166's advice, you should probably keep your Christmas giving a little light this year.

When Obama signs card check into law and associates start organizing, things are gonna be a little different at these firms.

When Obama signs card check into law and associates start organizing, things are gonna be a little different at these firms.

Here is a question, why don't we organize. All other proffesions have unions, why not us?

Here is a question. Why don't we organize. All other proffesions have unions and some job security, why not us?

Because Unions have no place in the modern job market. Unions shouldn't be used to garner job security, but only to ensure that fair wages are paid. That's not necessary in the legal field. Why should a firm be forced to keep unneeded associates on the payroll just because the associates are unionized? Doesn't make much business sense.

172
Mostly because many of us would gladly stab each other in the back for some billables, more bonus or a corner office. Most associates leave after 5 years because biglaw is a pyramid scheme and those that survive to become partner have no interest in diluting the value of partnership by allowing associates to organize. The play is to keep your head down, live frugally, pay off your loans and then move on to something other than biglaw.

Dechert must merge with OMM in order to survive.

Dechert must merge with OMM in order to survive.

172 here-- Still, I think in these times we could protect ourselves from waives or layoffs and firm lies if we had some sort of bargaining power.

#160, what the hell are you talking about?

Dear #73,

Your are indeed a lolwly 2L with no firm experience. If only you had ended your post there and kept your cyber piehole shut. No one here is saying that firms should keep associates on the payroll when there isn't enough work (and won't be for quite some time) to justify such associate retention. People here seem to be pissed off at the dishonesty of firms like Dechert. Dechert, trying to be a big fish in the Big Law pond will disguise the firm's layoffs (which are reasonable from a business management perspective) to keep its business failings and lack of a serious client base under wraps. Okay, that's cool. But what about the associates who are harmed in the process. What does that associate say when asked by a prospective employer: "So Ms. Smith, why do you leave Dechert in 2008? Would it be okay for us to call them as a reference?" Dechert should just do itself a favor and admit, they don't have the work, times are bad for everyone, and they had to triim the fat. I find it hard to believe that a firm that has its midlevels doing work that would normally given to a paralegal or first year associate can claim to lay anyone off for performance based reasons.
So #73, I'm going to suggest that you keep your opinions to yourself until they are given to you by your elders.

General Cornrow Wallace, S.D, S.J.D., BS

Winokur = Liar.

Winokur = Big Fucking Liar

Does anyone know whether the Princeton office is hiring lateral associates for the Mass Torts Dept? Given the Vioxx settlement, it is unclear how busy this office is. While most transactional departments are slow right now (any several doing layoffs), many litigation departments seem to be pretty busy, at least at the bigger firms.

I have heard rumors in the Philly market that Morgan is next up for mass layoffs......

182-
It is unlikely that Dechert is hiring for Mass Torts in that or any other office. The firm was very, very surprised by the Vioxx settlement. They had no idea it was coming and partners said as much at meetings soon after. No amount of mass torts business the firm had in the pipeline was anywhere near the size and scope of the work from Vioxx. Partners throughout the firm understood that settlement meant there was an overcapacity problem in that group.
.
Also, the mass torts practice at Dechert is mostly pharmaceutical defense. They lost the bulk of their tobacco litigation work because of incessant rate increases. What pharmaceutical defense work that remains may go away pending a Supreme Court case on preemption this term. The preemption question came up earlier this year, but ended up a tie because Chief Justice Roberts had to recuse himself because he held stock in the company involved in the litigation.

Basically there's a good chance that plaintiffs will no longer be allowed to bring failure to warn claims against manufacturers if the Supremes find that the FDA's regulation of drugs preempts such suits. Bye bye to all that pharmaceutical defense work via Federal tort reform.

Does Dechert's Policy Committee realize that its chairman just created a potential multi-million dollar liability with his big mouth?

Many of the associates let go in the past six months, and especially those let go in the most recent round, had sterling performance reviews, met hours and received bonuses. To assert unequivocally to prominent and national legal publications that these people were being let go for performance reasons and were being replaced by "better people" is classic defamation. Remember that where the comment affects a person's livelihood, and the person is not a public figure, the standard of proof is lower. Here, of course, we have actual malice on Bart's behalf, because he knows damn well that these layoffs are economically motivated, and that the performance of the vast majority of the laid off attorneys was exactly where it should have been.

I suspect the firm's General Counsel Artie Newbold is looking into this issue as we speak. I bet they wish they didn't force their First Amendment practice group out the door last year.

If you are a laid off associate and your most recent written performance review had no criticisms and stated that you were performing as you should be, you have a solid multi-million dollar defamation claim against Dechert and Bart individually. I would seriously consider filing a lawsuit immediately if I were you.

From Dechert's point of view, the unnecessary risk this Chairman has exposed the firm to is not just the dollar value of these lawsuits, but likelihood of extraordinary publicity surrounding these lawsuits. It would make the cover of major legal and general interest newspapers, given that layoffs and the manner in which they are conducted are on the minds of everyone these days.

Does Dechert's Policy Committee realize that its chairman just created a potential multi-million dollar liability with his big mouth?

Many of the associates let go in the past six months, and especially those let go in the most recent round, had sterling performance reviews, met hours and received bonuses. To assert unequivocally to prominent and national legal publications that these people were being let go for performance reasons and were being replaced by "better people" is classic defamation. Remember that where the comment affects a person's livelihood, and the person is not a public figure, the standard of proof is lower. Here, of course, we have actual malice on Bart's behalf, because he knows damn well that these layoffs are economically motivated, and that the performance of the vast majority of the laid off attorneys was exactly where it should have been.

I suspect the firm's General Counsel Artie Newbold is looking into this issue as we speak. I bet they wish they didn't force their First Amendment practice group out the door last year.

If you are a laid off associate and your most recent written performance review had no criticisms and stated that you were performing as you should be, you have a solid multi-million dollar defamation claim against Dechert and Bart individually. I would seriously consider filing a lawsuit immediately if I were you.

From Dechert's point of view, the unnecessary risk this Chairman has exposed the firm to is not just the dollar value of these lawsuits, but likelihood of extraordinary publicity surrounding these lawsuits. It would make the cover of major legal and general interest newspapers, given that layoffs and the manner in which they are conducted are on the minds of everyone these days.

Does anyone know anything about Morgan? Are they going to be facing a similar situation in the near future?

184, this is 182. Thank you, very informative response. The preemption decision pending in the Supreme Court will have a huge influence on the growth or downsizing of this, and many other, mass tort groups. I would think that hiring in these groups will freeze for most of this year, and depending on the outcome of that decision, layoffs may follow. Not good. Thanks again for your insight.

184, this is 182. Thank you, very informative response. The preemption decision pending in the Supreme Court will have a huge influence on the growth or downsizing of this, and many other, mass tort groups. I would think that hiring in these groups will freeze for most of this year, and depending on the outcome of that decision, layoffs may follow. Not good. Thanks again for your insight.

184, this is 182. Thank you, very informative response. The preemption decision pending in the Supreme Court will have a huge influence on the growth or downsizing of this, and many other, mass tort groups. I would think that hiring in these groups will freeze for most of this year, and depending on the outcome of that decision, layoffs may follow. Not good. Thanks again for your insight.

184, this is 182. Thank you, very informative response. The preemption decision pending in the Supreme Court will have a huge influence on the growth or downsizing of this, and many other, mass tort groups. I would think that hiring in these groups will freeze for most of this year, and depending on the outcome of that decision, layoffs may follow. Not good. Thanks again for your insight.

184, this is 182. Thank you, very informative response. The preemption decision pending in the Supreme Court will have a huge influence on the growth or downsizing of this, and many other, mass tort groups. I would think that hiring in these groups will freeze for most of this year, and depending on the outcome of that decision, layoffs may follow. Not good. Thanks again for your insight.

184, this is 182. Thank you, very informative response. The preemption decision pending in the Supreme Court will have a huge influence on the growth or downsizing of this, and many other, mass tort groups. I would think that hiring in these groups will freeze for most of this year, and depending on the outcome of that decision, layoffs may follow. Not good. Thanks again for your insight.

Bart is a liar. Two good associates were laid off TODAY - this afternoon - in Philly.

194
The only way to pay Dechert's management back is to be honest when people ask you what you think of the firm. Right now associates are angry and demoralized, but 1, 2, or 3 years from now when the economy is back on track don't mince words when people ask you for your opinion on how Dechert treats associates. I think that it's pretty clear that the firm has a terrible reputation. Don't let Bart or his PR machine spin themselves out of it when memories fade.

Outside the V10, it's safe to assume all firms with a significant transactional practice either have or will lay off a significant amount of attorneys and staff over the next few months. I really do not understand why Dechert has not gotten the memo that transparency has become the norm, and firms trying to deviate from the norm will be penalized. The way this has been handled, first denying any layoffs, and then acknowledging "replacing bad people with good people" and the forced secondements to public interest shops (which are really layoffs with 6-9 months of severance instead of 3 months) has been terribly demoralizing to current Dechert associates and non-equity partners. Impressive and high calibur attorneys practice at Dechert, and it's a shame that we learn more about our firm from Elie and the comments here than from within.

Bart, the way to salvage this is to fall on your sword and issue a mea cupla. People will forgive and applaud your honesty. "I apologize for denying that layoffs are occurring. The reason I mislead the media and Dechert attorneys was because I am from another generation, where admitting weakness to competitors and clients could have a snowball effect. I saw what happened at CWT and didn't want to expose Dechert to the same sort of scavenging going on there." Dechert would get a kudos from the legal community. All firms and their clients are struggling right now. We would survive.

Ex-Dechert here. Bart and his four henchmen need to protect their bonuses, built on the backs of those newly laid off, and those to come. Those Who Shall Not Be Mentioned (and their new(est) wives) need to keep their compensation packages in the very highest six and seven figures. I guess they have alot of ex spouses to pay off. Sleazy and low class, all of them. Glad to be 3L elswhere!!

As one of those laid off Dechert associates, I can unequivocally say that Dechert treats its associates like crap. They have done absolutely nothing to help transition to a new job. Winokur is a sniveling weasel.