fir del la firsty baby

fir del la firsty baby

What does that headline mean?

Thelen was such an effeminate name anyway.
We need more manly firm names like Sullivan & Cromwell.

what happens to last year's summers?

Guys at my high school used to come up with horribly unamusing headlines for Above The Law all the time.

David Lat punched them in the face.

The headline is clearly an attempt to sneak some fake black guy slang into the vocabularies of unsuspecting white people.

How much confidence can anyone have when the captain is no longer trying to save the ship (never mind go down with it), but is racing to beat the women and children to the lifeboat? Shameful, especially after he charted this disastrous course and then failed to correct it.

"Thelen has time to pracel out each practice group"

What the hell does "pracel" mean? Lat needs to know how to PARCEL out the postings on this blog to someone who knows how to spell and write....

4, 7, 8 - it's a toy.

"what happens to last year's summers?"

SOL, I'm afraid.

6:

Those of us that had offers moved on when they pushed back the start date.

Last year's class really got screwed. But at least we got screwed while there was still time to find another job.

BTW Elie, The Recorder published the Thelen article on Sunday (post dated it for Monday) while you busy showing ACORN volunteers the best way to give handjobs for Obama votes. Maybe if law firm news had anything remotely related to how great the One is or how crappy McCain is, Elie might report that news in a "timely" fashion. Hell, I think the quickest turnaround time for a news article for Elie was the Ted Steven's verdict...all it takes is some bad PR for the GOP and Elie will jump on that news faster than a box of Krispy Kreme donuts.

"Heller lost it's lucrative IP practice..."

sing it with me...

if you mean the contraction,
it's eye-tee-apostrophe-ess,
but if you want the possessive,
it's just plain old eye-tee-ess.

14 - is there anything except bad PR for the GOP these days?

13: Those would have been 1st years now at Thelen aren't screwed as much as current associates who are NOT being taken with a partner to another firm. Those people are more screwed because the market has a ton of Thelen and Heller attorneys right now.

As long as we're nitpicking, what about "reigned in"?

17, at least you have marketable experience. It is impossible for 2008 grads to find a job at this point.

good thing i didn't have thelen on my mail merge list...who would want to work there?

-nervous T-10 1L

It's a shitty time to be an associate nowadays regardless of level. If you're too junior you won't get a job in this market with no experience. If you're too senior you'll probably be competing with dozens of others for only a few spots. Inhouse jobs are probably scarce too as large companies curtail hiring. If I lose my job I'm going to go abroad and chill out for a couple years until all this crap boils over.

19: True, but as soon as start dates were pushed back, those 08 grads should have been looking.

For associates here, there have been partners in several offices assuring all associates there that they would be "taken care of," only to find that the partners are selfish and only take people as needed. They could care less about making sure the associates of their respective office are "Taken care of."

imho, that's worse than 08 grad that should been looking as soon as start dates were pushed back. It's not like they were being lulled into a false sense of security by partners who wanted to keep those associates there as long as possible for current work but as soon as those partners accepted offers elsewhere, they didn't try to bring some of those associates into those new places.

Is there anything in this post that wasn't reported by other news sources, including the ABA Journal, 10+ hours ago?

How about all the SF mail room staff or Office Services guys or Copy Center. What's going to happen to them.?

How about all the SF mail room staff or Office Services guys or Copy Center. What's going to happen to them.?

How about all the SF mail room staff or Office Services guys or Copy Center. What's going to happen to them.?

If it's not Obama related, it doesn't matter here anymore. Didn't anyone tell you this station is changing formats to all identity politics, all the time?

And next, your host, Elie Mystal to talk about why the Reverend Jeremiah is not just your president's, but America's next great spiritual leader.

nervous, I want to merge your face and my fist.

@ 15
kudos on the S to the B reference

"After submitting a comment it may take several minutes to appear. Please only submit your comment once."

"After submitting a comment it may take several minutes to appear. Please only submit your comment once."

"After submitting a comment it may take several minutes to appear. Please only submit your comment once."

22, so should the associates at Pillsbury, Paul Hastings, etc. who also had their start dates pushed back have been looking right away? Those incoming associates are going to firms that seem to be well-positioned now.

And no, there was not a single partner telling anyone that he/she should seriously look elsewhere. Quite to the contrary, one particular office was downplaying the situation as of last month. Those people that did look but who unwilling to go a boutique firm did not have much luck finding something comparable to Thelen as it was thought to be in March.

6, as stated previously, last years summers are SOL. As are the SAs from this past summer that weren't able to find alternative employment during 3L OCI.

Who cares about Thelen. Whats going on with SkaddenDC?!!?!

*transferring to BU*

-nervous BC 1L

33: I still maintain it's tougher for current associates, especially the ones in certain smaller offices that are getting hosed like no other.

It's tough as a fresh grad to get a job, but in BIGLAW, it's also tough (some might say impossible at times) to move as a senior associate...

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, PARSIN

O'Neal has to be the biggest assclown in the history of legal management. What a coward. Runs an organization into the ground and then flees while the entity is still in need of central management.

Lat's naive if he thinks Thelen is going to even last to the end of the year. The pship may be around until Dec. 31, but word is the doors will close before that. Well before that.

"And no, there was not a single partner telling anyone that he/she should seriously look elsewhere."

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Best wishes for all the Thelen folks. Hoping you get some relatively positive news out of tomorrow's meeting.

Isn't Steve O'neal violating a duty owed to the partnership and various ethical obligations?

41: I don't see how dissolution and closing the doors well before Dec. 31 is going to be anything close to "remotely positive." I guess if we get assurances of getting paid accrued vacation that would be nice, but didn't Heller say they were going to try to pay accrued vacation and then didn't, so a class action lawsuit was brought?

"For associates here, there have been partners in several offices assuring all associates there that they would be "taken care of," only to find that the partners are selfish and only take people as needed." - It may not have been up to the partners at all. The new firm the partners were moving to likely wanted the partner to keep their own associates busy and didn't need to hire anymore. When times are slow and you already have underbilling associates, why would you bother taking unknown Thelen associates too?

Fried Frank. WTF?

"For associates here, there have been partners in several offices assuring all associates there that they would be "taken care of," only to find that the partners are selfish and only take people as needed. They could care less about making sure the associates of their respective office are "Taken care of.""

Also wrong, in my experience. The partners that I know care very much about trying to make sure associates (and junior partners w/o a book who are equally vulnerable) are taken care of, but partners very often don't end up dictating how many people get to come along when they depart. Sure, people may end up orphaned for many reasons (i.e., the arriving firm has their own underemployed associates to worry about). Or, a particular associate may not be invited to come along because he or she is just not that good. (A shocker, I know.) But your broad attribution of "partner selfishness" is uninformed, simplistic, and incorrect.

Reed Smith landed Thelen's biggest rainmaker in SF. Lights out.

23-25: same thing that happened to Heller's mailroom.

i'm nervous about my prospects at life

-nervous t-10 1L

6: All but two of last year’s summers received offers, followed by a letter saying that their starting date is being pushed until Jan., “if at all.” Looks like Thelen forecasted their own demise. The situation with this year’s summers is even more interesting. During a visit to Bloomberg’s offices, their name tags said “Thelen Summer Ass.” and that’s exactly how they were treated. The summer program was cut from 11 to 8 weeks, the program’s budget was cut significantly ($25 max for a once per weekly lunch), the class was too large to have enough work for everyone, there was absolutely no communication during the summer with regards to possible offers, the first time that anyone heard from them about offers was after the semester started, and the list goes on and on. Currently most summers are looking for work, or I should say that all of the summers are looking for work since it looks like Thelen will no longer exist next year. They had strong groups and some great people working there, but there’s only so far that a firm can go with poor management. Once people started being treated like crap, it was all over. Many of the good people working there were against the layoffs earlier this year, and wanted to cur partner profits instead, but the powers that be wouldn't even consider it. Look at them now...

18, I concur. You'd think that with all the good schools Elie attended he would at least learn not to make such a basic mistake. REIN, Elie; not REIGN.

50, the letter sent to this year's incoming associates did not include anything along the lines of "if at all." You're a fucking idiot.

No, no, no.

At Heller, bankers were king. They told all the minion Heller associates what to do.

Hence, "banks reigned in Heller."

Of course, when you let banks rule, you're bound to fall down.

Holy shit fatman, you sat on all the tips (including much more substantive material than you've published here) and scoops by others to give us this crock of reheated crap???

You're doing nothing more than repeating what Thelen management has told you. For example, what does it mean for a firm to "sell off" its practice groups? Firms don't sell practice groups. And dude ask a few obvious questions of the firm. You said that the line of credit hasn't been pulled. Did you ask whether there has been a technical default under the line (the answer would have been "yes")? Did you ask whether the bank has told Thelen to wind up its business even if the line of credit is still technically in place?

Do you do any independent investigation on these things? To say you're a patsy and shill would be to ignore how fat you are.

You're supposed to be pushing the firms to be more transparent, provide more information and give people a better basis for making decisions. You've failed on all counts.

What other practice groups have found new homes? I heard rumors about Labor and Real Estate in SF. What about Sports Law in NY? What about the Asbestos Group? Will Asbestos go with Steve?

CHUBBY BUNNY ! CHUBBY BUNNY ! CHUBBY BUNNY !

Just another example of a firm trying to compete with the big boys in the Vault 100. If you can't afford to recruit heavily and pay the $160+, don't try. Just be happy in the V300.

52, thank you for the kind words. Do you want a copy of the letter they sent? If so, please post your fax number (or get yourself a free eFax number if you want to keep your identity secret). "If at all" was meant to say "look for another job and take one if you get an offer," but it really meant, without them knowing, "because we might not be around by then." Everyone gets what they deserve.

"But your broad attribution of "partner selfishness" is uninformed, simplistic, and incorrect."

Who said it's broad? I'm referring to one non-SF office in particular, but I'm not going to say which.

"Also wrong, in my experience. The partners that I know care very much about trying to make sure associates (and junior partners w/o a book who are equally vulnerable) are taken care of, but partners very often don't end up dictating how many people get to come along when they depart. Sure, people may end up orphaned for many reasons (i.e., the arriving firm has their own underemployed associates to worry about). Or, a particular associate may not be invited to come along because he or she is just not that good. (A shocker, I know.) But your broad attribution of "partner selfishness" is uninformed, simplistic, and incorrect."

In several of the non-SF offices I am aware of examples of more qualified associates being passed up for lesser qualified associates simply due to politics. Point is, many of these people were told that everyone would accounted for in these office split ups. I can tell you from several irate calls from my Thelen associate friends who are angry about not being approached by any of the departing partners in their respective offices despite an impeccable resume, that this isn't the case.

- Friend of Several Thelen Associates

I want the real "nervous" back. All these fakes drive me nuts. I love you nervous.

Am I the only one furious wtih Steve O'Neal?

O'Neal should absolutely be sued by Thelen. What a disgrace.

60 here (Friend of Thelen Associates):

"Am I the only one furious wtih Steve O'Neal? "

My irate Thelen associate friends could care less about O'Neal. They are disappointed and angry towards the partners of their office for leaving them out of the mix.

I LOVE weebles!!!!

fir del la firsty baby

fir del la firsty baby

Be furious with Mark Weitzel. He's the motherfucker who pushed for the Brown Raysman merger and he was the one so quick to jump ship when the merger that he foisted on the firm didn't work out.

33: PW & PH pushed back associate start dates???! Link?

Weitzel foisted the merger on Thelen? Tell us more... does this have something to do with the old Thelen NY office? Wasn't O'Neal chair of the firm then?

Some of the ppl that came from Brown were amazing ppl. However, some old Thelen ppl didn't see eye-to-eye with the Brown ppl after the merger and made some really stupid decisions. That's why most, if not all, if the Brown ppl are no longer there. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link!

O'Neal should be ashamed of himself. Have fun with him Howrey!

Truer words than those of 57 have never been spoken!

All of the firms that tried to run with the big dogs are realizing that they should have stayed on the porch...

69 - At PH (not LA), all of our first-years have already started.

61: here i am!

*nervously hands you my business card...which i made myself!*

-nervous T-10 1L

58, seeing as you continue to show how dumb you are, here is the exact wording of that letter:

"Last week you were informed by [hiring partner] that the employment commencement date for the incoming class of first year associates would be sometime in January of 2009. We can no confirm that the start date will be January 5, 2009. Enclosed you will find a set of frequently asked questions that relate to your January 2009 start date. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact [hiring partner]."

Now shut the fuck up and stop acting like you know what you are talking about.

Weitzel leaving was a major blow, but it was exacerbated by bad management decisions both before and after. There is plenty of blame to go around, but O'Neal deserves a bunch of it, albeit not all of it.

It's time to redistribute some of the wealth . . . from partners to associates! Where is the bonus news??

76, it's great to see who Thelen makes (used to make) offers to. Perhaps that's why they're doing as well as they are. However, that's not the letter that I'm talking about. There was a second letter received after the one referenced above. At this point it really doesn't matter anymore, but best of luck to you with Peelen.

This site is really sucking.

And when will this idiot Elie learn grammar?

Hi vultures! Don't be so sure Thelen is going to die like Heller did. As for O'Neal, he is talking big to save his skin, but don't be so sure 30 people are ready to blindly follow that sociopathic weasel like a pack of lemmings. You act like he had permanent kingship of Thelen and without his leadership Thelen is sunk. Well how do you know anyone was planning to keep him on as chairman? How do you know Thelen might save itself and the people he is claiming will follow him will actually do so? Maybe he is hoping to topple Thelen to save his own skin, but we will see. Not all the BRS people were a pack of users either. For example, Millstein looks like a standup guy to me. I am not so sure he is going to slink off with his tail between his legs and hand the keys back to 875 3rd Avenue. BRS would have had to close if Thelen didn't take them on and what thanks did some of the "name partners" give? Fly off to other firms in golden parachutes, but eventually users and destroyers get what they deserve. Let's see how long DLA Piper puts up with Steiner if he doesn't build himself a big book of business for them. As for incoming 1st years, if Thelen survives some of them might not get a start date. That could explain the ambiguity of the letters received lately. Thelen's problems have nothing to do with their capability as attorneys and Thelen could still be a firm that does excellent work. Wait and see what happens before mouthing off.

77 has it exactly right. Weitzel's departure was a significant, but survivable, blow as far as billings went. But with all of the NY departures and other issues with Firm leadership, it ended up exacerbating the loss of confidence that had already resulted from the NY departures. So, yes, spread the blame around.

Oh, and 81? Sweetie? I say this with all affection for the place: its demise may not play out in the same way as Heller's (and we're all praying it won't), but Thelen will most assuredly founder.

what time is the meeting?

Dumb headline.

This is a race for the exit because everyone knows that the last group of partners remaining, even a group as solid as the construction practice, cannot afford the overhead of the NY and SF leases (vacancy is at about 50% in the NY office), and Thelen acquired these commercial leases not quite at the top of the market, but petty close to it, so, even if a sublessor could be found in these recessionary times, you're talking a huge bite out of your PPP, so might as well practice elsewhere.

New slogan: "Nobody buys what we're Thelen."

I heard that people are opening crying in the SF office because they are afraid to lose their jobs in this economy? Is it that bad?

83-the meeting starts at 11 am pacific.

this is terrible.

Dear "Loyal" Thelen Associates:

You are about to be screwed over by your own management. The same management that sold you a line of BS about how loyal they were to the firm. Like idiots, you believed them, and swallowed management's story, hook, line and sinker. You will now be unemployed and poor. Nobody should ever hire an attorney as gullable as you.

Get ready for it, Thelen associates, it won't be long now.

TTThelen sucks.

Here's the latest:

"According to sources within and outside the firm, a teleconferenced meeting initially scheduled for Oct. 23 but postponed until Oct. 28 will be the virtual venue where the firm’s partnership committee will announce 30-day notices to all staff and plans to shut the doors Nov. 30."

Happy Thanksgiving Thelen!

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

TTThelen.

anyone up for starting a new blog, one that does not lag behind even traditional news sources by days. this blog has truly gone down the crapper. i dont use it anymore to get the scoop on any news. i just like reading the comments from people bashing this crappy blog. LAT was adequate, Elie is substandard (and dont get me started about the worthless and pathetic guest columnists).

this blog is nothing but third rate. i am looking forward to seeing someone do it better. shouldnt be hard. i mean, even if you are a day late and dont spell every damn word wrong, you are doing better than ATL.

Thelen employees, since you will be out of work around Thanksgiving, you should know that you have resources you can use to help you get through the tough holiday season. You can get a free Thanksgiving Day meal at various area soup kitchens. Also, you should consult your local welfare agency to see what benefits, like food stamps, that you are entitled to receive. Good Luck to all affected.

What a tragedy. 80 years. Is anyone, anywhere secure these days?

The dumb ass Thelen associates who stuck around when they should have been out looking for a job are going to be sorry when they are kicked out to the curb soon.

HA! HA! HA! I love it.

There was shouting between some partners going on at the NY office (maybe on the phone with SF). Its getting ugly.

No, 96. Not even the jackass at 97.

I am Thelen associate-to-be who had my start date pushed back to January. What does this mean for me? Does this mean that the the firm will be delaying my start date again? I wish someone would talk to us about it.

100 -- please, please, please start looking for a new job. It will not be easy given the market, but don't let it get you down.

Start date delayed again until the Monday following the freezing over of hell.

Start date delayed again until the Monday following the freezing over of hell.

98 - what were they talking about?

75, thank you. Hilarious.

- 61

GOOD POST, ELIE

This is 100. Is this saying I might not have a job at Thelen? This is unbelievable. Am I not going to be permitted to start in January? Don't they know that people need to work to make money? I have student loans, rent to pay? Why would they do this to us? Why did they push back the start dates instead of telling us that we would not be hired? Then I would not have burned through savings thinking I was going to be working in January.

Has any Heller-Highwater type blog emerged for thelen staff?

107's a glass-half-full kinda guy... "might not" ?

The fact is that corporate NY (Reger etc.), together with Weitzel in SF, bought into Steve's bullshit with the BRS merger. Thelen litigation was always opposed because BRS litigation was a complete joke. Steve lied to partners about the BRS debt service, and refused to tell the parnership about each BRS partner's book of business (largely nonexistent except for Steiner and Neuberger) while forcing certain Thelen partners to give up equity. In effectuating the merger, Steve bought himself extra time as chair, and got a big ol fat bonus while driving the firm into the ground. He should be sued. Why any associates have stayed there is beyond me.

The fact is that corporate NY (Reger etc.), together with Weitzel in SF, bought into Steve's bullshit with the BRS merger. Thelen litigation was always opposed because BRS litigation was a complete joke. Steve lied to partners about the BRS debt service, and refused to tell the parnership about each BRS partner's book of business (largely nonexistent except for Steiner and Neuberger) while forcing certain Thelen partners to give up equity. In effectuating the merger, Steve bought himself extra time as chair, and got a big ol fat bonus while driving the firm into the ground. He should be sued. Why any associates have stayed there is beyond me.

45-

Why are you writing "Fried Frank WTF"?

I was told that some partners were thinking of suing O'Neal for breach of fiduciary duty for the conflict of interest. This fight may go on for years.

I'm glad that I have the alternate position in the Special Olympics for 2010. I know I'll get the gold!

-nervous T-10 1L

90 and all those who mock current Thelen associates: You are absolutely pathetic! The fact that you are happy people are losing their jobs is disgusting.

More importantly, however, some partner have shown themselves to be very loyal right now and are taking associates with them. So sticking around, actually is working out for a number of associates. Only wish it would work out for everyone!!

This is the second time since the early 1990s that Thelen has faced a turning point in its history. In 1992 the firm was hit with a wave of partner defections and profits were down. The firm embarked on a cost-cutting push — renegotiating office leases, freezing salaries and laying off staff — to conserve cash.

“We had a core group of people who wanted to save the firm,” said Richard Gary, then-chairman of the firm who now runs a Bay Area-based law firm consultancy. The firm was able to pull out of its nosedive as finances improved the following year.

Thelen associates who were either too stupid or too shortsighted to see what was coming down the pike deserve what they get in today's economy. There is no guarantee of a $160K plus job anywhere.

While you certainly have my sympathies, please do not inundate my company with your useless resumes. I say useless because most of you are just document review monkeys at this stage of your career.

Perhaps you should look at Fedex/Kinko's with that sterling resume?

~In House Counsel

107-if there's no Thelen come January, there will be no one to work for, no office to show up to, no partners to grovel for, etc. Seriously, start looking for a job now. You are currently unemployed.

116, the difference now is that Thelen has now expanded to the East Coast and has an expensive lease in NY that has been draining the firm's profits for years and the DC office has lost most of its rainmakers. Thelen may survive if it contracts, but it will no longer have a presence on the East Coast.

113 - Thelen's partnership is a joke. They knew exactly what kind of person Steve was when they annointed him the all-powerful, all-knowing chair of the universe (or at least I think that's what Steve thought they had done for him). Doesn't that qualify as a voluntarily waiver of the right to now bitch about his shite performance? I hope the fight does go on for years. If nothing else, seeing them air all that dirty laundry would interesting.

116: "This is the second time since the early 1990s that Thelen has faced a turning point in its history."

Correction: This is the first time since time immemorial that Thelen is dissolving.

121, are you high or something? immemorial???
-116

Rest assured, 115, that the large majority of Thelen associates are about to be unemployed, regardless of what the current partners try to do. This market is too bad, and most Thelen partners have too little business to help themselves, much less the associates.

123: Not just associates. Many Thelen partners will be unemployed also.

117 - post where you work so everyone can be sure NOT to apply there! You sound like a real nightmare of a person to work with and be around!

The people who post on this site lately have been, for the most part, miserable and mean. While there's STILL no proof that Thelen is going anywhere, job loss happens. It could happen to anyone, so loosen up a little. I, for one, feel terrible for everyone at Thelen in their hard times. I think Steve O'Neal should be sued as well, and I wish the associates and partners nothing but the best as they move forward.

116-Congrats. You just advertised your illiteracy to the entire internet. Good luck finding employment now that your firm is no more, with your exhibited lack of language skills.

125

A major non-U.S. oil company with a base in NYC.

And you're right. No one would want to work with me; I'm obsequious towards my superiors and lash out at my subordinates.

You want a friend at work? Get a dog.

~In House Counsel

126: "STILL no proof that Thelen is going anywhere" ?Are you blind? The chairman is shopping around for a new job, partners are running for the exits, and the firm is holding a meeting today to discuss dissolution. Is that not enough proof for you?

You are like a guy who sees his wife go into a hotel room with another man, stay the night and leave the next morning, yet says "there is still no proof she is having an affair because I don't know if anything happened."

Wake up! (And if you are at Thelen, you will soon have all the proof you can stand)

126: "STILL no proof that Thelen is going anywhere" ?Are you blind? The chairman is shopping around for a new job, partners are running for the exits, and the firm is holding a meeting today to discuss dissolution. Is that not enough proof for you?

You are like a guy who sees his wife go into a hotel room with another man, stay the night and leave the next morning, yet says "there is still no proof she is having an affair because I don't know if anything happened."

Wake up! (And if you are at Thelen, you will soon have all the proof you can stand)

"Why any associates have stayed there is beyond me."

Because, unlike a lot of people who seem to be posting here, some of us would prefer practicing with our current colleagues than with any of you. Many of us will continue to have that opportunity. Many others, sadly, will not. Don't think that people haven't been pursuing other plans or seeking out other options. But for a lot of us, Plan A is to stick with the ones we're with, if that opportunity remains.

Even with the gallows humor permeating the office today, I am reminded at every turn just how much I like and respect my colleagues, and sincerely hope everyone (including staff) ultimately finds a home.

Howrey doin?

131: There is nothing special about the people at Thelen. Other law firms have smart, engaging and pleasant people who work there too, just like some places are filled with jerks. The sad fact is that Thelen associates have stayed because they could not find anything better. Most of them will not find new jobs anytime soon.

Btw, as much as the associates are about to tbe screwed, the staff is doubly screwed.

The stars from Thelen have already been picked up by other firms (including mine). Those who remain and have not been picked up have some difficult times ahead.

Other firms have been picking Thelen's bones for a long time. The only things left at Thelen now are the useless drudges. They are looking at long term unemployment. A pity. I feel for them.

I am... excuse me, was... an incoming first year. I feel so terrible for everyone involved in this. If the meeting today really is about dissolution, I wish everyone the best. Hopefully we'll all land on our feet somewhere.

128

Boy, I wonder what your superiors would think of your attitude. Do many of your subordinates hang around very long? Or is your employer facing a problem with high turnover? Perhaps you should forward your comments to your superiors, so they can fix the problem.

Guys at my high school lost their jobs at Thelen all the time. It was no big deal.

so should the associates at Pillsbury, Paul Hastings, etc. who also had their start dates pushed back have been looking right away?
__________________________________________

Yes. I don't care how "well-positioned" any firm looks--if they have to push back the start date of entire in-coming class, they are having financial problems, and should be avoided.

@ 135 and all the other a$$clowns who enjoy seeing people lose their jobs - I know you're socially awkward. I know it's hard for you to talk to people and even harder for you to get laid. You must be pretty desperate by now, but getting off on hundreds of people losing their jobs is just sick. SICK. Please see a shrink immediately to get that little situation taken care of.

thanks.

134 and 135 - so Heisse, Bastier, Griffin, etc. and the associates working with them (to actually provide services to clients) are "useless drudges?" Get a clue. Don't assume you are where you are because of your talent. Never underestimate the importance of luck.

Wow, the 2Ls and 3Ls around here never disappoint with their cluelessness. Maybe they're just bitter that they'll graduate with no jobs and are taking it out on Thelen.

140 - what a stupid comment. It was even dumber than 135's. Do you really think 135 takes your reaction seriously? Grow up. What a ridiculous comment. With that "getting laid" comment I have to ask whether you're still in high school? Get a life and focus on comments that actually mean something. Just because 135 is an idiot doesn't mean you have to be one as well.

@ 143 - glad to see you posted a useful comment.

O'Neal is a clown and an idiot.
Management is paid to manage. They were not visionary.

133, the sad fact is that you really don't know wtf you're talking about with regard Thelen's associates. But you are, unfortunately, probably right about a lot of the staff.

141 - Bastier and crew have already been picked up by another firm. O'Neal is purportedly taking 30 lititgation attorneys to Howrey (and I would guess that includes Heisse and other construction attys). Labor dept is actively negotiating with other firms. Are there any worthwhile departments left? Any income-generating partners?

147 - yes there are.

Thelen is having a Halloween party in the NY office on Thursday! Yay!

The schadenfreude on here is amazing. The wheels of fortune change and, yes, some of you, could end up in this position too through no fault of your own. Improve your karma because what comes around goes around.

The schadenfreude on here is amazing. The wheels of fortune change and, yes, some of you, could end up in this position too through no fault of your own. Improve your karma because what comes around goes around.

can someone please provide a link to a live feed of the partner's meeting?

147, 141's point is that people like Bastier hung in until the very end (i.e., now). Plenty of non-"useless drudges" stuck around to try to find a solution that would allow the firm to survive. It didn't happen, which finally led them all to get out there to find new homes--not just for themselves, but for others as well.

can someone please provide a link to a live feed of the partners' meeting?

Thelen is having a staff meeting today at 2:30 pm. Looks like it's over.

141: Bastier left Thelen. So, she is not a useless drudge. Since the departing partners left you behind, you must be.

yes, 154, here it is:

www.comedycentral.com

Thelen is having a staff meeting today at 2:30 pm. Looks like it's over.

158 -- which office? west coast? east coast?

140: Come on, now. Thelen's stupidity has been a great source for comedy for a long time (years). You can't begrudge us the chance to laugh now that they have finally managed to truly screw themselves. Thelen's constant missteps are just plain funny. I mean, the chairman of the firm, after screwing up the firm, decides to bolt during a crisis like a weasel. That's just laugh outloud material there.

The soon to be fired workers and associates knew that this day was coming. Its not our fault that they just stood there waiting for the axe to fall out of some misguided sense of loyalty. That's sort of funny too.

SF office is having the staff meeting @ 2:30

153 - thank you. 150 - perfect use of the word schadenfreude, and a good point. 156 - no, bastier has not left yet, although she will be leaving very soon. 135's statement was in the present tense, with the clear message that anyone who was not a useless drudge left well before now, which is clearly wrong.

153 - thank you. 150 - good point, and excellent use of the word "schadenfreude". 156 - Bastier has not left yet, although she will soon. 135's point (in the present tense) was that anyone other than useless drudges left long ago, which is wrong.

yes, 154, here it is:

www.comedycentral.com

From the BLT:

Ruyak: "We've Had Preliminary Discussions"

Howrey's managing partner Robert Ruyak has confirmed that Howrey and Thelen have begun "preliminary discussions" about Howrey taking at least parts of Thelen's construction, government contracts, and toxic torts practices.
Ruyak, who is in Europe this week, told Legal Times, "I had conversations with a group of lawyers from Thelen mainly in the construction and government contracts practice last week. I'll meet with them next week when I get back. Nothing has been concluded yet, and nothing is planned."

The Recorder reported this morning that Thelen chairman Stephen O'Neal, who is based in San Francisco, had been in discussions with Howrey to leave the firm for Howrey's D.C. office. Ruyak, based in D.C., said he did not know if O'Neal would be among the lawyers coming to Washington if the Thelen practices go to Howrey.

"We'll have to get more into discussion [next week] of who the people coming over would be," Ruyak says.

Ruyak also said he didn't know how long discussions would last, but says he hopes a decision would be made "within the next couple of weeks." Ruyak guessed those Thelen practices that are at the center of the discussions are also being pursued by other firms.

According to The Recorder, an all-partner meeting at Thelen will be held tomorrow.

Should Thelen's construction and global contracts practice go to Howrey, Ruyak says they would fall under the firm's global litigation practice.

O'Neal and Thelen spokesman Kevin Livingston did not return calls for comment.

*****

Kinda interesting how Ruyak does not sound too enthusiastic about O'Neal as he "said he did not know if O'Neal would be among the lawyers coming to Washington if the Thelen practices go to Howrey."

Maybe the weasel's exit strategy isn't going as well as he thought.

O'Neal is a weasel

O'Neal is a weasel

O'Neal is a weasel

Its official. Thelen's dead.

was there a vote? and is there a date?

yes, 154, here it is:

www.comedycentral.com

157, 164, 171: Get a life.

--- Not 154

What was the bottom line of the meeting? A vote or a schedule for a vote?

169, where did you get the source from?

173: a vote. thelen's toast.

169, where did you get the source from?

173: a vote. thelen's toast.

Put aside bad management. Culture killed the beast. Too many R&P lifers waited at their desks for work, or to inherit relationships. They needed to be hungry and to chase work. Chasing work is not "untoward." They were idiots.

What is happenning at the partner meeting??? Please tell us!!!

What is happenning at the partner meeting??? Please tell us!!!

What does 'R&P lifers' mean?

Historic R&P lawyers. The utlity group.

137

You can ponder all you want about the intricacies of big oil legal work, but the fact is, you can't do it. It requires a significant amount of legal experience and document review monkey work isn't going to cut it these days.

Might I suggest that you and other Thelen associates tamp down your expectations to, say, a legal staffing firm? No one else is going to hire you.

If the fleeing Thelen partners thought you were worth it, you'd have been brought aboard a long time ago, but, if you haven't at this point... well.. you are well and truly up shit creek.

~In House Counsel

What does 'R&P lifers' mean?

Speaking about people who failed to deliver -- throw in the Graybeal group as well. They were great at selling LILO/SILO tax shelter BS, but the bottom line is that practice died years ago. Wake up David and Bill.

I'm sad :(

186 I'm sad you're sad. :((

Igoe worked on a "Statement of Core Principles" for months. Give me a break. Hey Tom -- how about figuring out how to get more business instead.

R&P = Reid & Priest, the NY firm that Thelen Marrin merged with in 1999.

Thank you, 187. That's nice to hear.
-186

Most of Thelen NY is a wasteland, especially corporate. Those people will be laid off quicker than even the DC guys.

Can anyone state/post the statement of core principles? That would be a good laugh right about now.

From the Thelen website - Statement of Core Principles.

Thelen LLP has established core values that guide the way in which we conduct ourselves with our colleagues and our clients. Our core values are unyielding; they do not change with time, and they are not affected by market conditions or adjustments to the firm's strategy. We reinforce our core values in everything we do.

Commitment to Client Success
We are deeply committed to the success of our clients. We carry out this commitment by providing the highest level of value to our clients through outstanding, responsive, and efficient delivery of legal services.

Excellence
We demonstrate excellence to our clients and to each other in everything we do through individual initiative, hard work, and collaboration.

Integrity
We maintain the highest personal and professional integrity through our decisions, communications, and actions within our firm, with our clients, and in our communities. We are unfailingly honest with our clients, as well as with each other.

Respect
We act with respect for each other and for our clients. We are committed to a diverse and inclusive workplace that values different perspectives. We encourage a collegial and vibrant environment that welcomes open discussion in furtherance of our firm's goals.

Investment
We invest capital and time in our firm, our people, and our communities.

Innovation
We continually challenge ourselves to learn. We value innovation and embrace change that strengthens and improves our firm and our ability to serve clients.

Partnership
Being a partner means more than owning a percentage of the firm. We are committed to communicating and operating in an open, productive, and democratic way, as well as to achieving consensus on important decisions.

Teamwork
We work together to help our clients, our colleagues, and our firm to achieve success. While we value individual contributions, we believe our best results are achieved when we work collaboratively.

One Firm
We make decisions that advance the overall best interests of our firm. We support each other and hold ourselves accountable to one another as citizens of the firm.

R&P/TMJB merger was in June 1998

"We are unfailingly honest with our clients, as well as with each other."

Unless, of course, you are the chairman who is secretly negotiating to leave while the firm drowns.

R&P
TR&P
TRBR&S
T

RIP

Does anyone have actual official word on anything?

Yeah. Thelen's closing up shop as of December 1st. Elie should get his fat ass in touch with someone from inside Thelen.

You know that the Spengler Carlson alums are laughing at the R&P idiots now.

198, what exactly is your source?

As a former alum who will lose his capital, I hope that they can't make any more partner distributions.

TMJB +R&P => TR&P => TRBR&S => T => RIP ;-(

Ira Jolles - how about trying to get some business now, instead of still living off of your former GC role.

Thelen's down! Finally. This firm really dragged out its last breaths, but I think we are all glad its gone. I will miss laughing at them.

F U 204

204 should have a lobotomy to get rid of the malicious, despicable, and generally unsympathetic section of his/her brain. This is a terrible day for all involved.

get a life! you are one cold bastard.

183 - you are an ass. You spout off without knowing what you are talking about, acting oh-so superior. You might need to cover up your insecurities about your worth as a human being, but you can do that in a way that doesn't demean others (many of whom are probably better lawyers than you).

Happy Thanksgiving, and Merry Christmas, Thelen Associates.

Your gift this year is the bitterness that misplaced loyalty brings. Enjoy.

i meant to 204

200, sorry, but I'm not throwing that individual under the bus. Official news will be out later today. Just be patient.

200--198's source is Ellie's picture. He is, indeed, a fat ass.

Official word:

http://legalpad.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/10/thelen-launches-dissolution-vote.html

It was nice when the leasing group brought in those additional leasing "heavy weights" after the LILO/SILO crash. That was money well spent. Just another sign of incompetence.

Thelen Launches Dissolution Vote
The Recorder

Thelen's Partnership Council recommended today, in a meeting that's still ongoing, that the firm's partnership vote to dissolve the firm, the firm's spokesman confirmed.

Management asked the partnership to vote for dissolution during a partner meeting that began at 10:00 a.m. PDT and lasted more than two hours. The vote will remain open for seven days and the firm hopes to shut down by Dec. 1.

The 84-year-old San Francisco-based firm consummated a merger with New York's Brown Raysman Millstein Felder & Steiner in late 2006, but that has since been widely viewed as problematic. Name partners Peter Brown, Richard Raysman and Jeffrey Steiner — and more than 100 other lawyers — have left the now-roughly 400-lawyer firm this year.

More recently, since merger discussions with Nixon Peabody ended several weeks ago, it had become clear that various groups from Thelen were talking to other firms about lateralling, including rainmaking energy partner Ellen Bastier and firm Chairman Stephen O'Neal.

Only a month ago, fellow San Francisco stalwart Heller Ehrman decided to dissolve. In a worsening economy, observers fear that more firms nationwide may face such dire decisions.

Check back at Cal Law for updates throughout the day.

Rich Gary is laughing.

214, who were they?

Why is no one from ATL breaking this story? Why is it being posted to the comments anonymously?

These late after the fact postings on ATL show how far this blog has truly fallen. When Thelen had layoffs back in March, ATL posted it almost before Thelen associates knew. Now we just have a lame parroting of existing news articles with lame commenters.

Elie is too busy stuffing his face with donuts whilst chortling over his latest Sarah Palin expose to do any investigative reporting on something as irrelevant to a legal blog like the dissolution of a large firm.

Only a handful of people I will feel bad for getting laid off in the NY office. Thelen deserves to be be shut down by December. I am so glad I left before this.

221 will die an early death. karma's a bitch.

Ring around the Rosies
Pocket full of posies
Ashes..Ashes..Thelen all falls down..
hahaha

Ring around the Rosies
Pocket full of posies
Ashes..Ashes..Thelen all falls down..
hahaha

I feel for the senior Thelen associates who thought they were up for partner this coming year or the next. Hopefully the partner(s) to whom they hitched their wagons will be taking them on to the next stop and give them some hope of making partner in the next two, three, or - more likely - four years. Good luck to all of you.

Some of you are real sick fuc_s.
I hope some of your family members get laid off Dec 1st so you will hear first hand how it feels to not have a job during the holidays.

September 24, 2008

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Vault Ranks Thelen Among Most Prestigious Law Firms

Thelen LLP has been ranked as one of the most prestigious law firms in the world, according to the 2009 edition of the Vault Guide to the Top 100 Law Firms. For its 2009 guide, Vault assessed its "Quality of Life" rankings from more than 18,000 associates surveyed on the qualities that create the most amenable and enjoyable law firm environment.

Vault determined its rankings by surveying more than 160 major law firms across the country. Attorneys were asked to rank the top 100 firms in terms of how prestigious it would be to work for them.

Here is a sampling of what Thelen associates had to say about the firm:

"I love working at Thelen. In particular it's a good environment in which to be mentored - I feel that at an early stage of the game there's a lot of opportunity to work as an intregal member of a client team." - New York associate

"Thelen has a very friendly culture, emphasizes diversity in hiring and marketing, flexible hours for professionals, with a business casual dress code." - Washington DC associate

"As far as opportunities for advancement go, they will push you as far as you can - if you demonstrate that you can handle the responsibility." - New York associate

"I think we are doing exceptionally well. The litigation department has been incredibly busy this year." - New York associate.

"They have a strong presence in renewable energy and are working hard to expand this, along with a climate change practice. While there are competitors, they have a unique combination of strengths in the energy field that few other firms can match." - San Francisco associate.

http://legalpad.typepad.com/my_weblog/files/ThelenRelease.DOC

looks like it's a done deal

Now let us see how long it takes Thelen to inform (former) incoming first years and 2008 summers with offers out that they are SOL--management has been so communicative to date. Surely management remembers them, no?

Mmmmm, sarcasm, such sweet sweet solace.