Election Shenanigans Watch: What the Hell is Wrong with Palm Beach County?
Remember back in 2000 when Palm Beach County’s infamous “butterfly ballot” caused confused voters to vote for Pat Buchanan when they intended to vote for Al Gore?
Do you think they fixed it? Check out today’s Palm Beach County November, 2008 election ballot below.
What the hell is that? They’re not trying to confuse voters into voting for the wrong person, instead they’ve opted to make it likely that many people will not have their votes counted at all.
In any event, to vote in Palm Beach you need to connect the thingy on the right-hand side to the arrow on the left. Spread the non-partisan word, old ladies deserve to vote too.
Earlier: Election Shenanigans Watch: Pennsylvania and … New Jersey?
Election Shenanigans Watch: All Hell is Breaking Loose in Virginia
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PENIS!
This is a retarded post - what is wrong with these ballots? It's not hard to connect a line.
Why is that so hard? Seems incredibly simple.
if you cant draw a line, then whats next? you probably cant pull a lever as well- better choice is to let the democratic party just vote on your behalf- heck, lets just abolish the voting system and anoint Obama as our King!
What stupid ballots. Why can't they just have people fill in a bubble like everybody else?
Is this a law blog or an election shenanigans blog?---Elie-don't you get it no one cares about this useless crap. If you wanted to have a thread about election irregularities combine it all into one, we don't need 50 threads because we have 50 states.
The Black Panthers are attacking!
Its not a hard ballot to figure out and it is a common ballot style.
Its the exact same ballot used in Cook County, Illinois, The same place Obama lives and voted. Relax.
maybe im as dumb as floridians, but what is wrong with this, exactly?
I mean, yea, old people have hella shaky ass hands, but that doesn't mean they cant move a pencil 2 centimeters
it's a standard ballot. it also includes instructions. they tell you to complete the arrow by drawing a line. try posting a complete ballot (including instructions) instead of making up a story based on incomplete info.
stupid, stupid post.
This is a retarded post - what is wrong with these ballots? It's not hard to connect a line.
Mass. used to have these types of ballots. Old folks in my town didn't have any problems. Chances are these are the same old people that move to FL. Move along people, nothing to see here.
Are there instructions about moving the right thingy to the left thingy or is the "draw a line" thing supposed to be obvious? I didn't know.
Separately, why are the lines between the candidates where they are -- almost suggests that there's only the two candidates for president and then one candidate for another race and then three candidates for the next and so forth. If you vote for Obama in the first group and Barr in the second, I assume that nullifies your vote altogether? So, yeah, I can see dumb people doing that.
I don't see the problem, unless there are literally no instructions anywhere - and, in that case, the lack of instructions is really the problem no matter the method.
Elie, save yourself and stop posting today. You are a fucking jerk off. I've supported you on here before but the wheels have fallen off man. The plane has crashed into the fucking mountain.
Dude, you are shitting up the place. This post is retarded and so are you. Fuck off and stop.
This type of ballot has been common in Florida for at least 12 years now, and I assume its used in other states that have optical readers. This is not hard to figure out and instructions on the ballot are clear. This really is a stupid post.
These are used in DC
It's hard for Elie.
Voted in Cook County, IL using that style this morning. It wasn't difficult. Although it was a pain in the *** having to fill in the line for all of the 7,345,235 crooked Cook County judges up for retention.
I don't see the problem unless, maybe, there are no instructions anywhere - and I seriously doubt that is the case.
Damn, even Trig Palin can understand those ballots.
http://pbcelections.org/default.aspx?s=1
Palm beach website -
Elie, you can at least get the issue right. The complaint is that the ballot is two pages. The second page contains proposed constitutional amendments. The voting machine will not recognize an incomplete ballot as a vote. Because the proposed amendments are complex, many people are intentionally leaving the second page blank, and the machine will not count these votes.
That's how ballots look in SF. It is really quite simple.
Elie, you can at least get the issue right. The complaint is that the ballot is two pages. The second page contains proposed constitutional amendments. The voting machine will not recognize an incomplete ballot as a vote. Because the proposed amendments are complex, many people are intentionally leaving the second page blank, and the machine will not count these votes.
Sample Ballot
McCain ----- Palin [ ]
Obama ---- Biden [ ]
Elie ---- Doughnuts [X]
@25...you are hired for today. Elie, pack up your shit and fuck off.
Voted in Cook County, IL using that style this morning. It wasn't difficult. Although it was a pain in the *** having to fill in the line for all of the 7,345,235 crooked Cook County judges up for retention.
It's called an idiot test. If you're too stupid to figure out the ballot and to connect the line, you need to go back to your Kumon workbooks. Whatever you do, you are too stupid to decide anyone's future.
In Santa Clara Co. CA they even have practice sheets for connecting the lines.
Anonymous Contract Lawyer
I can't wait to watch Obama, Pelosi, and Reid royally F up the government. I only hope we can make it to 2010.
Preferable to switches and levers....
INSTRUCTIONS FOR MARKING BALLOT
TO VOTE
Draw a line connecting the
head and tail of the arrow that
points to your choice
These are the instructions from the ballot. What's the problem?
People, the problem is Elie's fat ass fingers that look like monster sausages couldn't handle a ballot like this.
Voted in Cook County, IL using that style this morning. It wasn't difficult. Although it was a pain in the *** having to fill in the line for all of the 7,345,235 crooked Cook County judges up for retention.
This ballot is used in states on both coasts and is pretty prevalent in the Midwest. Shut the fuck up, you worthless slob, and give the site back to Lat.
Preferable to switches and levers....
Preferable to switches and levers....
This is easily the most terrible post by Elie yet. Great commentary: "What the hell is that?" Really insightful.
8 - I CARE!! This is the very essence of our democracy on which our laws are founded. And it's highly relevant to the theme of this blog - law, lawyers and the people who abuse them. Tomorrow I look forward to the return of regular programming, but today the ATL staff could not be more appropriate.
Voted in Cook County, IL using that style this morning. It wasn't difficult. Although it was a pain in the *** having to fill in the line for all of the 7,345,235 crooked Cook County judges up for retention.
The ballot is quite simple. I do not understand why anyone would be confused.
Also used in SF county.
I'm not going to read any posting that isn't related to layoffs or pay, the thought of this site getting ad revenue for this is pathetic.
Umm... Massachusetts used (perhaps uses) an identical ballot. This is neither news worthy nor interesting.
#25 makes a legitimate point.
This ballot is identical to my SF absentee ballot, and is simple and in no way confusing.
Except perhaps, to the morons who typically vote in Florida.
HINT: You can only chose ONE President/VP pairing. What...how confuuuusing....what a minute....who am I ans what am I doing here...where is Baruth Obama in the ballot.....I am soooo confused....
Take it up with the supervisor of PB County.
http://pbcelections.org/content.aspx?id=13
Just used the same ballot in Milwaukee, WI. Not that confusing.
28 for USAG
I have noticed how commenters go out of their way to criticize Elie and sometimes feel bad for him. However, this is my second comment today with criticism, because this is the second post with misleading information that could have been avoided with simple research.
As mentioned above, this is the same ballott used in Cook County, Illinois. It is very clear to me that you fill in the line. The instructions say so, and the people working at the poll explain it to you. Plus, when you put the ballott into the machine, it notices if you made any mistakes (filled in more than one candidate when you can only vote once, marks in incorrect areas). Finally, if anyone is confused, all they have to do is ask the poll employee.
This is the second post of the day that could have been fixed with simple internet research. Sample ballots are available at chicagoelections.com.
Lat - please, pay attention to this and encourage the new editor to do internet research before posting critical things.
Fire Ellie now. This post is an embarasment.
Go MCCAIN PALIN
The ballot is so easy even a Wookie can use it.
36. I laughed out loud in class. Fucking Great.
Dear Elie,
So there you are, tubby. Look like a bucket of lard on a bad day. You baby gorilla. Why don't you work in a zoo, and stop bothering people? Got a call yesterday from Baskin Robbins. They said that they're down to only five flavors. You're swelling up as I write this to you.
The "line between the arrow-halves" thing is not confusing.
The multiple lines among the candidates is kind of weird.
If it's true that you HAVE to vote on the provisions on the second page in order to have your vote counted, that sounds like shenanigans to me.
28 is the A.G.
The Mac is back now how about Lat.
we use this in rhode island. My guess is that lots of places use this type of ballot.
21/30/36/42 Here:
Even though I am too stupid to figure out how to post once, I still wasn't confused by the ballot.
I have to agree with previous posts. While I find the lines a little odd (although they're all clearly under President and Vice-President) the lines all seemed to line up fine. Not too hard.
If 25 is right, that's a little concerning. Are people in Florida not allowed to choose to not vote on some races/issues? In Minnesota, if you don't vote for a constitutional amendment, it just counts as a "no" vote - doesn't affect the rest of your ballot.
DC ballot is the same... I think it is like natural voter selection I think- if you are too (Dumb/inbred/redneck/etc) to connect the arrows- then no vote for you...
Yup, looks like this in Northern CA also.
Took me all of 1.5 seconds to figure it out reading the one sentence instruction.
To quote a great statesman (and ladies man), "It was no big deal."
Although he doesn't bother to explain it, I think Elie's beef is that the seperator lines, which are not between every set of candidates, make it appear that there are multiple races or that the person should vote for one set of candidates in each line segregated section. The result would be an overvote in the presidential race which would discount the ballot.
Of course the "Vote for One" instruction seems to contradict that and I'm sure the supervisor sent out sample ballots which, in addition to having this in it, included the Florida voter's bill of rights, which states that a voter has the right to have questions about the ballot answered by a poll worker.
All in all, there's aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.
I saw a flock of senior citizens figure this out in 5 seconds after asking a simple question and receiving a simple reply. I saw the ballot this morning and thought nothing of it. I didn't hear anyone in the many many people who voted before me complain about this. This is a waste of time.
Illinois' ballot was exactly the same. What's the problem?
This is the way I voted and I do not see it as that complicated. Is there some easier way to vote that you can tell us about?
If you cannot figure this out, and if you fall for the "republicans vote on Wednesday" ploy then maybe your vote should not count.
I DISCOVERED THE PROBLEM!
There's some sort of foreign gibberish at the top.
Tancredo was right: Third-world city!
64 -- Elie's beef... -- too easy so I won't even bother.
This is the ballot format used in Alameda County, CA. People had the choice of either the arrow system or electronic voting--nobody was choosing the latter.
Elie, I never bashed you before. But your ignorance of a conventional ballot system isn't newsworthy. What's really so hard about drawing an arrow to your preferred candidate/proposition?
The lines thing is a non-issue; Elie is just using a poorly scanned copy. See http://wjnoblog.com/2008/11/palm-beach-county-sample-ballot/
The problem is that people are going to vote for more than one pair of candidates and not have their vote counted. It's confusing to have the lines drawn arbitrarily like that. Fodgodsakes, draw a line after each pair -- not randomly.
This ballot format has been used in my precinct for years.
No but really, if there aren't any instructions, I could see how it would be confusing. Why are there lines between random groups of candidates even though the top of the ballot says pick one. You mean pick one in every group or just pick one period? Everyone has heard of McCain and Obama so they'd pick on there, but what if they went into the other groupings and picked another thinking they were running for some other office? They're ballot is then invalid? Who the fuck is Gene Amondson and what does PRO even stand for?
No but really, if there aren't any instructions, I could see how it would be confusing. Why are there lines between random groups of candidates even though the top of the ballot says pick one. You mean pick one in every group or just pick one period? Everyone has heard of McCain and Obama so they'd pick on there, but what if they went into the other groupings and picked another thinking they were running for some other office? They're ballot is then invalid? Who the fuck is Gene Amondson and what does PRO even stand for?
This ballot is very similar to the absentee ballots in Virginia. Retarded post, ATL.
They have this in Chicago.
I wouldn't expect Elie to be able to figure it out, but old women should have no trouble
If that ballot was confusing, then how did Elie get above a 150 on the LSAT and make it through HLS?
This ballot format has been used in my precinct for years.
20 for president
20 for president
They have ballots like these in Minnesota too. Not difficult at all, just connect the arrow.
The problem is that people are going to vote for more than one pair of candidates and not have their vote counted. It's confusing to have the lines drawn arbitrarily like that. Fodgodsakes, draw a line after each pair -- not randomly.
Without the instructions (because Eltard didn't post them) and having never seen this type of ballot before (hell, I've never even voted), I knew what to do. Dumb. Fucking. Story.
Is 25 right though? It would be very interesting if you had to vote on every issue for your vote to count. This seems ripe for a constitutionality challenge. It's basically forcing you to vote when you don't want to, and I'm pretty sure the right to vote comes with the right to not vote.
20 for president
Thats the same ballot used in California too.
70,
Thanks for the link. I stand corrected. Elie's just completely full of it on this one.
64
Perhaps you can use chocolate syrup to connect the arrows.
20 for president
this is so worthless it actually makes abovethelaw seem kind of crazy. I used to see ballots like this when I voted in Minnesota and then in Wisconsin. All you do is connect an arrow. It is very simple.
Seriously, David Lat, why did you turn this decent blog into whatever it is now
Wisconsin has used a similar ballot for years without problems. Elie, are you making up election shenanigans to make yourself look important and knowledgeable or are you commenting on the stupidity of Floridians? If you are doing the latter, you should be ashamed of yourself because I am sure there are at least one or two smart people in Palm Beach.
The fact mysTTTal finds this ballot confusing is proof that affirmative action thrives at HLS
HORRIBLE POST. HORRIBLE. I MUST USE ALL CAPS TO EXPRESS THE STUPIDITY OF THIS POST. ELIE IS HORRIBLE; THIS IS A STANDARD BALLOT---HAVE YOU NEVER VOTED BEFORE ELIE??? YOU NEED TO RESIGN. BACK TO LAW FIRM GOSSIP/RUMORS/ETC. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR OTHER POSTS.
Massachusetts has used this ballot for years. No problem. Of course, people in Massachusetts are on the whole smarter than anywhere else....
Seems easier than pulling a lever.
54 - You got a personality like a dead moth.
But thanks for reminding me of the funniest movie of all time, and also reminding me of Dirty Work, which happens to be hilarious.
I laughed so hard i vomited hot free voter coffee from starbucks all over my keyboard.
Although I did not believe Elie's scanned ballot to be terribly confusing considering all names fell under the President/VP heading, seeing a true facsimile of the ballot (shout out to 70) leads me to the conclusion that Elie is reckless and idiotic.
So glad I did not vote for Elie in ATL Idol. At least, I cannot claim responsibility for the shitty disaster that is ATL.
I have generally given Elie the benefit of the doubt, but man these posts are dumb.
What #89 and #90 say about Wisconsin using this same ballot is correct. And we have never had an issue in Wisconsin. Maybe that's because all that cheese makes us smarter...who knows?
What #89 and #90 say about Wisconsin using this same ballot is correct. And we have never had an issue in Wisconsin. Maybe that's because all that cheese makes us smarter...who knows?
Can we vote for a new editor for ATL today? Please.
done with this blog.
for an article for which people unanimously agree there is no issue, ATL has certainly gotten a lot of comments. i guess ATL is really a "blog about nothing" and is just as popular as seinfeld.
Dear 25: No way. You can vote for President only or any or a part of any ballot measures in combination and not "invalidate" your vote.
A simular rumor was floating around SF to get voters with no position on all ballot measures to not vote.
It is BS.
101---perfect analogy
Fire Elie. This ballot has been in existence for a decade and is considered one of the good templates to move to. No research plus innane topics unrelated to the blog's content = FIRE ELIE FIRE ELIE FIRE ELIE (repeat after me)
Fire Elie. This ballot has been in existence for a decade and is considered one of the good templates to move to. No research plus innane topics unrelated to the blog's content = FIRE ELIE FIRE ELIE FIRE ELIE (repeat after me)
OMG--Is it too late to get Marin as EIC?
Elie for the good of all please RESIGN. You are not doing yourself or ATL any good by hanging around. You are rapidly killing this blog. If Lat won't come back give someone else a chance.
That ballot looks like seven different elections to me.
I'll fill in my Obama/Biden vote, then it looks like LaRiva/Puryear are running uncontested for some other position, so I'll vote for them too.
--Average voter.
If people can't figure these out, it is best that their vote not count.
I do not know why I even read this blog anymore. It has nothing but stupid posts/articles.
102: It is an issue with some of the machines, not a policy issue. Scanners in the machines were not recognizing ballots when the second page was blank. Election officials can enter these votes by hand, but they don't know how widespread the problem is.
- 25
fire elie
fire elie
fire elie
fire elie
Just like Mormonism - dumb dumb dumb.
Black Panthers blocking polling place in Philadelphia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94b78rnWMP4&eurl=http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/11/04/black-panthers-intimidating-voters-philadelphia-polling-station
108... See the link in Comment 70 you fuckstick...
I don't know about you guys, but I thought that ballot really was tough. Youch!
- Elie's Mama.
102 = George W. Bush.
Simular? Is that like Nucular?
Guys in my high school used to draw lines all the time. It was no big deal.
Actually Lat is thrilled by the number of [all important] page hits this post is generating. His only concern is that Elie post articles that induce 100+ comments.
Elie doesn't have time to research his posts. He is busily frequenting every Krispy Kreme in the tri-state area to get his free election day donuts.
WTF? What's so hard about connecting the ends of the arrow?
101 and 103...hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, I did not find this blog until after Lat left (have work to do after all) but I have thoroughly enjoyed the Elie bashing. The comments are far more entertaining and witty than the posts.
23 is wrong. Hysterical, but wrong.
Elie, this has been a sad day for posts. Have there been any legal challenges or other legal issues related to these issues? If not, then let's find something else to talk about.
If I wanted to read biased political stories all day, I'd read the Huffington Post.
This is clearly an attempt to suppress the republican. Only the elites will be able to figure this out, and thus the negro will steal the election. How transparent is this?
Don't you all realize that this is the democrat's strategy prior to an election. They file a list of grievances, complaints, and anything else they can think of before the polls are closed. If the election does not go their way, they will point to everything from the racist white ballots they were given at the polling station to the lack of "I voted!" stickers given out. If Obama wins, all the democrats will talk about how wonderful the election process was and how it is obvious that every legitimate vote was counted. If Obama loses, we will get non-stop complaining about the Bradley Effect or how the Jim Crow laws are still in place. Until then, Elie is just posting any and every possible excuse to reference to in case Obama loses. Any news that is legitimately related to, I don't know, the LAW (or the main purpose of this blog), will take a backseat until Lat comes back.
120 = fail
what the hell is it with spanish language on ballots? you have to be a citizen to vote and you need a basic command of english to be a citizen
I think we need to start a serious movement to have Ellie fired. His posts are consistently (1) not interesting, (2) not topical, and (3) blatantly biased to the left politically (do you remember when he quoted Talking Points Memo?).
Above the Law is only two years old or so. Don't forget that before this, associates got their information from Greedy Associates. If Ellie continues to turn this into a political gossip site, someone needs to start an alternative to Above the Law.
Elie,
If you truly believe this ballot is problematic I guess Harvard should start carrying Highlight Magazine.
130--I couldn't agree more. I am blatantly biased to the left but this blog is for associates in law firms and law students who are soon to be associates. Elie's meanderings into the political are truly not what we come to this blog for. Elie you seem to be a nice guy but I just don't think you get it. You have had long enough to get with the program so please shit or get off the stick and give someone else a chance. ATL is losing the clout that it had with its readers and by losing that clout also losing any influence it might have on law firms.
@132...Elie hasn't shit in a very long time...have you seen how puffy he is? He's full of shit!
@127 - Yeah, because the Republicans would certainly never engage in such tactics.
That said, I agree with you about the tone of this blog -- way too political and biased, and that's coming from a Democrat.
134, two wrongs don't make a right.
Comments 64, 73, 81 have it right. Seems that many people type first, think later.
The voluminous anonymous abuse heaped on Elie is ugly.
I think and hope that over time websites will force people to put their names to their posts so this hateful hostility is diminished.
@134, I didn't say it was right, just that it's asinine to accuse only Democrats of election shenanigans. Both parties are unfortunately swimming in the same shallow pool.
Comments 64, 73, 81 have it right. Seems that many people type first, think later.
The voluminous anonymous abuse heaped on Elie is ugly.
I think and hope that over time websites will force people to put their names to their posts so this hateful hostility is diminished.
if you write a story about something so obvious, you should at least tell all the dummies what they aren't seeing at first sight. Or maybe this is an incredibly easy fucking concept.
Complete the arrow that points to the guy you want to win.
I've voted for 10 years in Wisconsin and every single ballot I've ever filled out has looked like that. How is it misleading or difficult?
The ballots are like this in San Francisco too. It's kind of sucky but mostly because they are so close together - what if you connect the thingy to the wrong arrow?
Ya vote!
if you write a story about something so obvious, you should at least tell all the dummies what they aren't seeing at first sight. Or maybe this is an incredibly easy fucking concept.
Complete the arrow that points to the guy you want to win.
Okay. Elie has to go. At first I thought he was getting a raw deal; now I just don't care anymore. What's REALLY fucking up ATL is that every goddamn comment section turns into analysis of Elie's posting capabilities. I think we can all agree that no one wants to read that anymore, whether we like Elie or not. And I see no other way to stop it.
134, 135: That's not change. That's more of the same.
I used one of these ballots in Michigan in the 2004 election. It was the first time I had seen that style, and after thinking "really? magic markers?" I connected the lines and went along my way. No big deal.
Long time reader…first time commenter:
Really? This post is still up? What does it take these days to get someone to recall their own ridiculously foolish and ignorance revealing words? The “delete post” command must require connecting an arrow…
Oregon ballot looks very similar. I don't see what the problem is.
This is what the ballot looks like in California - Bay Area. Looked like this last election too. What's the problem?
This post is truly disappointing. This type of ballot has been used for at least 8 years where I vote in Washington. Looking at 70's link, it appears that the funny linens only under some names is simply an artifact of the scanning of the copy posted here.
Elie, I've been annoyed with people constantly criticizing you, but I'm disappointed that there has not been an update/removal/correction for this post. Please fix this.
What shocks me more is the number of candidates on the Florida presidential ballot. In Texas, it was just Obama, McCain, and Bob Barr.
People here don't seem to realize that although their states may have used this ballot for years, this was a new format for voters in PBC and some people were confused. People did complete the forms incorrectly. Some voters circled the arrow, placed an "x" in the middle and did all types of stupid things that clearly didn't comply with the instructions. Remember Florida voted for Bush, so they clearly aren't that smart...
I've never comented before, but now I feel compelled. This new editor, Elie, is horrible. Most of his posts are terrible trash, and they out him as a complete idiot. Lat should return or hire someone that is not a complete retard because I am not going to read this blog much longer with this asshat running it.
just my 2 cents.
ATTENTION READERS: There will be a BOYCOTT of ATL on Friday, November 7th, to protest the declining standards of this blog, particularly in terms of substantive relevance and proofing errors.
Let your voice be heard! Stay away from ATL this Friday!
we have the same ballot in DC and it seems to work fine. get over it, it's not that hard to figure out.
Elie is the worst thing that's ever happened to this site. It is now just as often a leftish political blog as anything else. My viewership is declining rapidly due to Elie.
If it is too hard... bring a ruler