and second

and second

expect more layoff announcements before Thanksgiving...

These preztels are making me laid off

I would care more if they were hiring 1Ls.

I'm hoping for some Christmas Eve layoffs this year.

Again, in the immortal words of Michael Ray Richardson:

"The ship be sinking"

I don't know how I'd survive if I were laid off. I really feel for all these people and hope I'm not competing with them for jobs any time soon.

This is carnage. Any thoughts as to which firm is next? Or predictions as to the total number of attorney layoffs in 2008 and 2009?

Also helpful would be historical data of whether firms that conduct layoffs are more or less likely to subsequently fold. I could see it going either way (layoffs could be a death-throw of a firm in a downward spiral, or could be the bad-tasting medicine that saves the organization).

Being a lawyer in all this mess sucks, and I feel just as bad for law students.

wow, huge news - a crappy firm lays off crappy associates.

Someone at ATL do some work and post and update a chart of firms and confirmed (and rumored) layoffs and office closings, please. stat.

Keep said chart accessible on the home page and permit us to survey the carnage, hopefully from a safe distance.

thx

11 - very nice

May you be laid off for the holidays

2 months? Christ, that's nothing when you're one of a thousand lawyers walking the streets with your resume (and hat) in hand.

Just be glad we aren't bankers. We get freaked about a few associates (probably in the 5% to 10% range at most).

Many banks are just cutting 25%, 30%, or more of their headcount without a second though.

There will be coal in your stockings - - ha ha ha

15 - true enough, but those bankers make tons more coin than us, and should have saved for a rainy day. Plus, when they eventually bounce back, they'll still drive nicer cars than us and tell us what to do.

- former banker pondering life choices

seriously elie....consider me for a job, i could be your eyes and ears on the ground here to pick up all the juicy law school news.

-nervous T-10 1L
email job leads to nervoust101l@yahoo.com

Look for more firms to step out and announce layoffs, now that several firms have done so. Trying to hide bad news behind other bad news and shoving out this type of news late in the week are two of the oldest PR tricks in the book.

12 - I agree. I'd like a chart of layoffs in major firms thus far.

Extra point for breaking the charts down by city and practice group.

improper use of the word "ironic," dumbass

GOD...why are you such a fucktard?

10 - here are two predictions... DLA and Latham

Not all that surprising. GT had been seriously winding down their OCI efforts this year.

Not to mention their growth has come essentially from swallowing up firms and hanging out the GT logo....not exactly the best growth strategy...

I'd like to third 12 and 20. While it doesn't seem that CA or my particular practice area within it are at that much risk, as a soon-to-be-bar-finder-outer I'm nervous as hell.

I also feel less sorry for bankers because they have a more versatile skill set, and hence a broader range of potential new jobs. Most businesses need someone with the skills that you develop with an undergrad degree in finance or business, and several years in the banking world.

Does anyone besides law firms have a need for someone with 3 years experience reading appellate decisions? Besides the few lucky in-house positions and a smattering of underpaid government positions, there is very little else out there. A laid-off attorney, if he/she cannot find a new job at a firm, basically has to forfeit the $120K law degree.

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here, wondering if it would offend Elie were I to coin the phrase "Black Friday" for all of the layoffs being announced today.

10 - My money is on Hunton & Williams.

27 - why?

GTTT

12 - fortunately AmLaw did this for us

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202425647706

GT may not be a top tier firm, but their real estate group is top five in the city and if they're making cuts you can be sure that most other real estate departments will be too.

What a sh*tty severance package.

Orick gave 5 months, CC gave 3 plus a pro-rated bonus, and this TTT gives only 2 months.

GT sucks.

26 -- Nope.

But it's probably a little unoriginal.

And really, if we're going there we probably need to coin a phrase for the whole week.

Whatever it is, this was the week that Biglaw decided to *not* keep people on through the holidays. And that is what has been really so terrible this week.
--Elie

They were axed to leave.

30, and then there are the stealth layoffs which aren't covered and may be all the more sinister

Does anyone know how many people got laid off? Was this concentrated on only associates, or partners/of counsel as well? GT laid off a couple of junior partners earlier this year.

33: so elie...what do you say about a summer job. you wouldn't even have to pay me, just let me live with you.

-nervous T-10 1L
email job leads to nervoust101l@yahoo.com

ps i got the highest grade possible in k's over the summer if you need me to look over your employment contract to make sure lat isn't screwing you.

30 - do you know what a chart is? the AmLaw webpage is not a chart. Are you MysTTTal trying to get out of doing some f'ing work, or just an F stick that doesn't realize that a well-organized chart actually helps people understand a greater volume of information than other forms of presentation?

but seriously, thanks for the link.

best

30 - do you know what a chart is? the AmLaw webpage is not a chart. Are you MysTTTal trying to get out of doing some f'ing work, or just an F stick that doesn't realize that a well-organized chart actually helps people understand a greater volume of information than other forms of presentation?

but seriously, thanks for the link.

best

This is the second (at least) round of layoffs at GT NYC. A bunch of Partners and associates were laid off a few months ago.

Half the corporate department left in the past year and a half.

Rosenbaum is driving that ship into the ground.

28 - Very large securitization practice. Lots of lawyers/offices in TTT locations. Very expensive, recently renovated office space in NYC. And even before this crisis, it never struck me as a particularly strong firm.

I don't have any inside info, but that's where my money would be.

- 27

Any chance they fired the dipshiTTT junior associate in their White Plains office?

Some good attys left NJ office recently.

There is no way SkaddenDC will avoid this bloodshed.

40 - Rosenbaum's no more in charge of GT's NYC office than Matt Gorson. Rosenbaum spends 95% of his time traveling internationally looking for small firms to gobble up. The other 5% of his time is spent getting massages in his office.

hey mysTTTal,
why don't you work on a biglaw layoff chart over the weekend? we'd appreciate having the information in an easily digestible format on abovethelaw.

thanks!

8 - I always loved the classic "The ship be sinking" quote. However, for the record, that particular laureate spells his name Micheal Ray Richardson.

Go figure.

37: I think Elie would like that...

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here, seconding 46's suggestion and further recommending that the chart be in the form of a timeline, starting with the first of the layoffs this year and then listing the rest on a day by day basis.

thanks in advance for the chart Elie!

Locke Lord Houston is letting several associates and support staff go. GT Houston is floundering too.

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here -- everyone should realize what a great place TTThelen was -- I married a colleague, O'Neal left his wife for an office worker, there were the Hood(s), etc.

That was a great place.

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here -- not to mention the very prominent older leaders of the firm that never married -- very interesting indeed. I guess they loved the law, or something like that.

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here -- not to mention the very prominent older leaders of the firm that never married -- very interesting indeed. I guess they loved the law, or something like that.

i'm afraid i won't be able to afford preztels soon....

25: dead, dead wrong.

If you are a gutless punk and need to work for somebody else, yes, $120K is about all you can expect if you leave BIGLAW after a few years and don't go to another firm. But, if you have the guts to start your own plaintiffs' class action firm and start suing to enjoin very deal in sight, file some class and derivative actions against every company that loses more than 25% in market cap in any year, etc. you can make way more than your banker/trader friends in even a good year.

I will put my car up ag

56 - you are a clown

25

Greenberg is the worst slime of any firm which is saying a lot these days. Greed and stupidity is one thing but GT is horrible.
Jack Abramoff wasn't even close to the worst garbage at the highest levels of this firm.

I would like to add to former TTThelen and current Orrick partner TTTom Glascock (aka Glass Cock)'s suggestion: a chart by firm name and a timeline would both be useful

58 -- you can't make a statement like that without elaborating. No need to name names, but more info is required.

And you base that off of...?

Can you please only post news about V50 firms on this site? Every other firm sucks.

- CLS 2L Stud

60, I agree with 58. Everyone I have ever worked across from at GT has been (a) not that smart; (b) quite impress with his or her own abilities; (c) kind of an asshole; and (d) pretty sleazy and unethical. I know one guy from my old firm who went there, and he was very sharp and cool, but everyone I've met in practice has been a colossal douchebag. Also, they all honestly think that they are at a top firm. I'm not sure how their rep is in Miami, but they're a total joke everywhere else.

My bullshit, mid-market, shitcan firm in Century City's not lookin' bad right now...except for the fact that other lawyers work here, too.

62 - you will be unemployed upon graduation

Or you will slave away for the better part of a decade at a desk doing drone work and liking it.

Man, I am so bummed. Today I had to take the fire escape to get upstairs quick and caught this real cute chick from our mailroom blowing the mailman. What sucks is I've been hooking up with her for about a year now and was thinking about getting serious so I was all like "wtf???" and she just goes "postal workers CAN'T be laid off dipshit" so I was all like "yeah but you blew ME in her at last year's office party" and she was all like "yeah? so? you won't even be here by Christmas dork" and then went back to blowin' him right there in front of me.

Jeez.

Locke Lord Houston is letting several associates and support staff go. GT Houston is floundering too.

65 -

LOL at your pathetic attempt to bring me down. CLS students are immune from all of this. Good luck with your TTT non-CLS degree.

- CLS 2L Stud

Any news on Vinson & Elkins Houston?

TO EVERYONE ASKING FOR A CHART:

Thankfully AmLaw actually cares about their readers and has created one -

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202425647706

I really hope "CLS 2L Stud" is some jackass NYU student trying to make CLS students look bad.

GT loves to brag about its model. A model that underpays associates. A model where everything is a secret. A model where partners really aren't partners. It is like working for the most corrupt arbitrary political cheap greedy hack. I'd be glad to see it go down but the rats get off the ship. The humans don't get lifeboats.

71 - That's what I was thinking it was. There's no way that guy is not schtick.

Bar graph by firm, showing volume of associates axed.

Traurig means sad in German (or in this case maybe Yiddish). So sad!!!

Negrodamus predicts that SkaddenDC will be looking for work at GT by Feb 09.

Negrodamus hath spoken.

70 - I was talking about a chart that looks like ATL's old salary raise / bonus / perks charts

69, V&E is doing well. No plan to layoff anybody they are planning to just ride this thing out.

To 25: Don't ever ask yourself why you are a nobody, a zero in this world. If you want to whine and bitch about not being able to make money with a law degree then you don't deserve to piss with the big boys. Go teach third grade, you will fit in just fine. 58.

i love Glass Cock!!

25, or you could, you know, grow a pair, get your own clients, and work for yourself.
Sorry to hear about your ambition to be a wage slave for life.

I'm gonna dip my balls in it!

I second 12!
A chart w/ all lay offs would be fantastic.
Elie, because it would only be a chart, you will also have minimal opportunity for spelling and grammar errors.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

balls

salty

balls

chocolate

balls

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

based on my calculations, biglaw will need to shrink by 30-40 percent over the next 12 months

the biggest contractions will occur at the top ranked firms, as m&a is dead and not coming back for a decade if ever.

save this post. i will remind you of this in a year and will savor my prescience.

We 3L's are the most fucked of all. We have all of the debt with ZERO earnings. At least the associates being let go have had some time to save and pay off a portion of their debt.

What are we going to do in this fucking economy? We will all starve most likely, or end up working at Mcdees.

All of our hard work for FUCKING NOTHING.

Guys at my high school used to use unamusing weasel word headlines all the time, it was no big deal.

Why would anyone ask about V&E? Texas has been strong.

Hey, Nervous,

Your logic is faulty.

"What are we going to do in this fucking economy? We will all starve most likely, or end up working at Mcdees."

That depends on who "we all" are. Apparently your customers aren't starving.

Get back on your medication already.

So all the rumors about V&E today are not true?

Guys at my high school used to work at the fast-food establishment colloquially referred to by as "Mcdees" all the time, it was no big deal.

Most depressing blog ever.

88,
besides like fashion TX is 6mo-1yr behind NYC
You think oil at $60 not $140 will have no effect?
You think the buyouts and real estate financing will continue in TX?
Dell? AMD? The airlines?
Please look out your window and see all the new condos built with the expectation of ten percent annual appreciation. Please see the trouble dem Boyz are having getting stadium completion funds.
V&E survived Enron and will survive this. But a big big big bunch of associates will be gone by February.
fo shizzle

The firms that are well-position in Texas (V&E, Baker Botts, Weil, Jones Day) are dominating right now. Plenty busy.

93 - you don't know what you're talking about. You deserve to get a pube beard.

the comments on this blog might even be worse than the actual topic postings. GT is a big ass firm with a lot of good lawyers. People's lives have been affected. These layoffs are a big deal. Autoadmit kids-- provide something useful to say or go home. A third alternative is to go back to the playstation which made you an idiot in the first place.

e 3L's are the most fucked of all. We have all of the debt with ZERO earnings. At least the associates being let go have had some time to save and pay off a portion of their debt.

What are we going to do in this fucking economy? We will all starve most likely, or end up working at Mcdees.

All of our hard work for FUCKING NOTHING.

Don't worry -- Obama will raise taxes on people making over $250k (or is it 200k?) and everything will be all better.

Guys at my high school also used to use too many propositions all the time, it was no big deal.

3L-- hang in there for one year. Q3 09 everything will be fine. 1 year til NYC to 190

98: $200k if you're single (I'm guessing yes for 90% of the people reading and posting here) and $250k in combined income for married folks.

Hmm, so if two gay guys both make $180...they'll pay less in taxes. Maybe prop 8 wasn't such a bad idea...

Guys at my high school used to get laid off all the time, it was no big deal.

100 -- You are probably joking, but in case you were being serious, there is no way in hell things will improve in 2009. We are talking about a prolonged period of de-leveraging here -- we will probably see growth again in 2015 or so, if that.

I find it mind boggling that people on here think we are fixing to see the end of the legal market as we know it. Like there has never been recessions and economic problems before or that our economy is no longer going to require attorney's. Comments like 103 are a perfect example. Yeah, it'll take 7 years for there to be any growth again. Give me a break.

96 is right. Japan has been brainwashing us for economic collapse through their Sony "playstation" for years. Is it a coincidence that PS3 arrives and are economy goes right down the shitter?? I say we attack.
- GWB disciple

DLA apparently closed both the Memphis and St. Louis office today. Look at their web page - they are no longer listed among the NA offices.

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here to point out that I am the real Glass Cock, and the other posters after the last one suggesting a timeline, are all copycats.

I can prove that I am the real Glass Cock, as I had an office right next to a real prick on 19.

107 why don't you register like nervous TTT-10 1L? Can't wait to see your avatar.

Thank you 104 and 105. The reason this site is going down isn't because of Elie or anything like that it's because the comments have gotten progressively worse. Get a grip people.

#40 --elaborate more on the details of your comment that its nyc managing partner Richard Rosenbaum "is driving that ship into the ground...:"

I am sure the readers of ATL would like to know, and deserve to know, much more about his "managment" style and what is hapenning inside GT...

108- GREAT IDEA!

Greenberg Traurig is not even considered to be biglaw

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock), showing off my beautiful, long, thick glassy cock avatar.

Here's a chart of the Vault 100 firms which have laid off. Captured as much info as I could in a reasonable amount of time. Sorry for the spacing, but comment format doesn't allow much flexibility.

For (confirmed) additions, please e-mail: firmlayoffs at gmail dot com. (I don't put it in e-mail address form because I don't want spam machines to pick it up).

Alternatively, if Elie or someone else from ATL e-mails me, I'd be happy to just pass the spreadsheet off to them with some suggestions for additional columns.

- unemployed CLS 2L

Rank Firm, _________________________ Stealth / open, Severance (months)
1 Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
2 Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP
3 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
4 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates
5 Davis Polk & Wardwell
6 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP
7 Latham & Watkins LLP
8 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton LLP
9 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP
10 Kirkland & Ellis LLP
11 Covington & Burling LLP
12 Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
13 Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
14 Williams & Connolly LLP
15 Sidley Austin LLP
16 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
17 Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr LLP
18 White & Case LLP_________________Open, 70, 3
19 Shearman & Sterling LLP___________Stealth, ?, ?
20 Arnold & Porter LLP
21 O'Melveny & Myers LLP____________Stealth, 5, ?
22 Clifford Chance LLP_______________Open, 20, ?
23 Jones Day
24 Morrison & Foerster LLP
25 Hogan & Hartson LLP
26 Linklaters
27 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy
28 Ropes & Gray LLP
29 Mayer Brown
30 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
31 Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
32 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP
34 Winston & Strawn LLP
35 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges LLP
36 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
37 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe________Open, 40, ?
38 Allen & Overy LLP
39 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
40 Proskauer Rose LLP
41 Baker Botts LLP
42 King & Spalding LLP
43 DLA Piper
44 Baker & McKenzie
45 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
47 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP
48 Dewey & LeBoeuf
49 Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
50 McDermott, Will & Emery
51 Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP
52 Dechert LLP____________________Semi-open, 20, ?
53 Vinson & Elkins LLP
54 Goodwin Procter LLP
55 Jenner & Block LLP______________Open, 10
56 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
57 Alston & Bird LLP
58 Fish & Richardson P.C.
59 Cooley Godward LLP
60 Irell & Manella LLP
61 Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
62 Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP__Open, 25, ?
63 Bingham McCutchen LLP
64 Greenberg Traurig, LLP__________Open, ??, 2?
65 Holland & Knight LLP
66 Heller Ehrman LLP
67 Foley & Lardner LLP
68 Steptoe & Johnson LLP
69 K&L Gates LLP
70 Kaye Scholer LLP________________Stealth, 16, ?
71 Nixon Peabody LLP
72 Hunton & Williams LLP
73 Perkins Coie LLP
74 Reed Smith LLP
75 Patton Boggs LLP
76 Chadbourne & Parke LLP
77 Bryan Cave LLP
78 Thacher Proffitt & Wood LLP________semi-open, ?
79 Howrey LLP
80 Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
81 Crowell & Moring LLP
82 Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP_______Open, 21, ?
83 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP
84 Arent Fox PLLC
85 McGuireWoods LLP
86 Venable LLP
87 Dorsey & Whitney LLP
88 Dickstein Shapiro LLP
89 Baker & Hostetler
90 Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, L.L.P
91 Lovells
92 Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner LLP
93 Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP
94 Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP
95 Kilpatrick Stockton LLP
96 Locke Lord Bissell & Liddell LLP
97 Squire, Sanders & Dempsey LLP
98 Seyfarth Shaw
99 Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo PC
100 Fenwick & West LLP

Elle,

Go to Greenberg's website and take a close look at the bio's listed under the NYC real estate department (for example) . Print a copy of the names listed that way, On its face, there seem to be many listed attorneys that have little or nothing to do with a real estate practice. Why? Seems odd.

It's not easy being [at] Greenberg.

85-I am with you; I too am predicting doom & gloom and will officially ring the panic bell here although I don't want to steal your thunder.

You are sounding like Peter Schiff a few years back amongst the herd here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

Further deleveraging will even continue after 12 months along with the enitire economy. We are looking at least a 2-3 year long severe recession that will be worse than the early 80's and could turn into a depression depending upon any bad government policy choices a la hoover/roosevelt. Very similar to 1929; deep recession following massive deleveraging that lead to the depression starting in 32-33 (look at our per captia debt to gdp charts). Roubini, Soros, Rogers, former Goldman head partner, et al have all said the same. The debt laden American consumer economy that no longer produces anything is just starting to circle the bowl-US Government debt is on the brink of being downgraded & foreigners no longer want to service our debt. Goldman & JP Morgan among others would have gone under if Paulson didn't do a backdoor bailout of AIG for his buddies-that would have given us our 29 one day type crash despite the PPT. Layoffs will only multiply & multiply...If Detriot goes under soon? The near 30-60 trillion derivatives crash that almost occurred with Lehman's demise might just happen in that event. Its amazing how clueless most people are,especially the law partners when they didn't start large layoffs sooner, although I think they are starting to realize just how bad things are going to get and that this is no 87, 90-91 or 2000-2001 short blip.

To those worried in Boston: PE is a large there right? Hedge funds are imploding left & right and its only going to get worse; just an example that no sector/law firm/area of the country is safe and yes Cravath and other v20's do asset-back securitization-who didn't ride that scam to the public 700m public feeding trough. The finance industry & corporate american will not be able afford the insane billing rates very soon.

73-

I don't know. Have you ever met a CLS student? That's pretty much exactly what they sounds like. And no, I didn't go to NYU, just had the poor judgment to date a CLS 1L once upon a time.

*sound like

The sky isn't falling. Profits are going to take a small dip and you'll see who the premier firms are during this time: V10-type NY firms, W&C and Covington and the lit and regulatory powerhouses in D.C., the Big 3 in Texas, K&S in Atlanta, etc.

The next layoffs will be at Seamlessweb.

Does DLA even have offices in Memphis or St. Louis? Doesn't appear on NALP...

117--

you have things, basically, right. Good for you for def being ahead of the curve. If you are not doing so already, I recommend you start reading (regularly) two excellent financial websites. Naked Capitalism and the other is Dollar Collapse.

Guys at my high school used to show off their glass cocks all the time. It was no big deal. None of them were big...deals.

GT has always been a penny-pinching operation. They don't give you a client development budget, they deduct it from your profits. Really no point being a partner there unless you'd rather be associated with a mediocre firm than start your own.

I am so scared; so very scared. Should I (a) contact my firm and ask them flat out if they plan on revoking my offer, (b) try to find government employment, or (c) flee to a tropical island and grow weed?

Seriously.

not sure why GT gets such criticism on this board. It's a great firm and a great place to work.

126:

(c) mon.

This article is about current Greenberg layoffs in its nyc office. What about its other offices? WIth the Florida economy poor, there might be a more detailed story for ATL to research. Is GT doing layoffs in installments and, if so, what is the real layoff total? Other comments above have referred to earlier GT associate layoffs, as well as additional layoffs of partners. What is the total number of layoffs to date, not just the layoff number going on today. Get to the bottom of what is really going on over there at GT.

What about the HUGE firms, e.g.

Skadden
Latham
Baker
A&O
Jones Day
Sidely
White
Weil
Mayer Brown
Kirkland

Trying not to bias based on what already happened at W&C, are these sorts of places more or less safe than the elite niche practices / the 'large' but not 'huge' firms. Without trollling for any of them in particular, I've heard a lot of chatter that, all else being equal, it might be better to take a few slots 'hit' in 'vault' or 'prestige' if it would enable you to move into a 'mothership' firm. On the other hand, I've heard people say that the bigger the firm, the more they're going to be looking to cut people ...

???

I'm a legal recruiter and here is my experience. I think firms can be too big. However, I am not sure how much I would factor that size in to determine the safety of the firm. It's really firm specific. My honest belief is that a firm structured like V&E based out of Houston is going to be about as safe as it gets in this market.

Not very leveraged, great management, lots of energy clients (but decently diversified as well), good PPP for being based out of Houston. I'm sure there are other firms like this as well but V&E is the one that stands out to me.

hey nervous 3L: why don't you just come get a 1L firm job with me? oh wait....sorry. lols, looks like i'll be making 3k/week while your studying for the bar while job searching!

-nervous T-10 1L
email job leads to nervoust101l@yahoo.com

ps avatar pic

If anyone deserves to be fired, its this douchebag thats going to Cravath from Cornell....

http://www.d3football.com/news.php?item=595

Greenberg=crap severance
Dechert=stealth layoffs, crap severance
Lesson - don't work at Jewish law firms

Nervous T10 1L -- can you be any more of a douche? I hope you get outted and a subsequent ass beating in the law quad.

Can someone explain why the firms would be cutting their RE sectors? While the transactional work would be down, foreclosures and workout would be up. What do you think? Is it a bad time to going into RE law?

131 = V&E HR troll posting under the guise of a legal recruiter. They will *likely* be fine, but they are definitely not the first firm that comes to mind when thinking "which firms will be safe in this crisis?" Ignore the trolls.

How can all of this market turmoil not produce lots and lots of M&A activity (either now or in the next 12 months)?

138- Asset sales. Distressed companies are selling assets (and very cheaply).

The only problem is that without the extension of credit (financing), other businesses cannot acquire.

Deals are being done in parts of the world that are not as "affected" by this crisis.

I'd like to know what insiders or others think about Baker & McKenzie. Any info?

Orrick SF associate here. Tough 2 days; really not fun. This afternoon some associates in strong practice areas offered to donate a portion of their salaries to reverse or defer the layoffs of the structured people, in case the market comes back.

Those let go are talented people, and the firm is stressing it so much it's making it really depressing.

I'm not a Bay Area native. The West Coast touchy feely stuff annoys me. I'm a legal realpolitik type. So it's very embarrassing for me to admit that I'm impressed by my fellow associates here.

i was scared when W&C came out... now tht 3 have gone down, i am kinda expecting it.. and suddenly it doesnt seem that scary.

maybe if i do get laid off, then it will start feeling bad after 2-3 months... real bad.. for now, i am ok.

- D*bag

Good luck boys and girls of privilege & all associates who have done five or six years of doc review masquerading as real attorneys, get ready to be interviewed and rejected on your truly weak merits by the TTT grads you openly despise who have actually have done something significant since law school.

Orrick SF associates = classy. Bravo. That's wonderful news amid all of this gloom and doom.

Wait, Obama hasnt fixed the economy yet? But he promised.

Hey 114:
Great chart--I did notice you missed Cadwalader's massive charlotte layoffs from a year ago...

141 Orrick- Did management accept any of that offer? Truly a classy move. You'd never know class still existed in Biglaw from the contents of these comments.

The fact is, I'd take a pay cut to keep my job and benefits to weather this storm. I challenge anyone on this board to disagree. What's worse for the market? Laid off associates or lower paid associates?

130,

You can cross Skadden, Weil and Kirkland off the list. Those are probably the safest places to be right now because of their bankruptcy practices. They can just shift people there (especially juniors) if things get out of hand.

So where would that leave PHNY which has been leaking associates for almost a year and has an office that is completely dependent on it's RE department for business.

145 - Asshat, Obama isn't president yet. But don't worry GW has it under control... he said the summit is making progress... he's smoking out the economic bad guys.

148 - Is right, at least with respect to Weil and Kirkland. All three have great bankruptcy practices, but I wonder whether the size of Skadden and the fact that it has so many offices will mean that it would be easier to shed a few pounds here and there. Kirkland seems like the safest of the three since it has a great litigation (and IP - not sure how this area is doing) hedge as well.

131 -- concur w/ V&E. That's a great point about leverage -- v&e's is exceptionally low, like 2:1 (they actually recently decided to increase it; i'm sure that plan went away). you can't layoff many associates so that you have more partners than associates!

134 - Ignorant, probably racist and a likely a-hole.

the layoffs are a direct result of republican policies.

democrats will work hard to fix things, but it took 8 years of republican rule to screw things up so it will take time.

continue to support democratic candidates and they will eventually fix this bush recession like clinton fixed the first bush recession.

152 and/or 131:
Can you explain to a 2L what you mean by "not very leveraged"?

141- Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here, asking you to come to my office so I can slap you in the face. It's not that the gesture of giving up salary is not noble, it's that I am a partner and I don't understand these concepts of altruism, benevolence and self sacrifice. Thus, I lash out.

Now, get back to drafting secretary's certs. We have a deal to close.

Over 20% of the firm are real estate attorneys and real estate has been slow. I can't imagine this will only be limited to NY.

WILDMAN HARROLD would never fire its crappy associates.

Holland & Knight is due for a huge bloodletting. Real estate in Florida is just dead.

151 - the IP lit practice at K&E is booming. I'd say it might even be busier than general lit at the firm, which is still really busy. It wouldn't surprise me if the firm had record revenue this year...

V&E's special niche is defending Halliburton / KBR against claims of massive fraud and corruption in Iraq and everywhere else they are doing work. The Iraq claims might be winding down but that just means the claims will come from other work.

So, V&E associates have nothing to worry about. They are set for life.

154 -

The economy was rebounding from the first Bush's recession prior to Clinton taking office. Look up the actual economic statistics, not some partisan politics BS. Furthermore, the current financial crisis is a result of bad policies supported by politicians in both parties that were in total denial. You zealots on both sides of the aisle that credit/disparage one party over the other with no factual basis amuse me.

155, leverage is how many associates per partner. Firms based out of New York are usually much more leveraged. Some cases 5 associates per partner. This explains why their PPP are high. V&E and really most firms based out of Texas are much less leveraged. V&E's associate to partner ratio is actually 1.3 to 1. This is where they have tried to keep it for a very long time. This is one reason why their PPP are a little bit lower than firms based out of NYC. That's pretty much what it means to be leveraged.

I am a midlevel at Gibson Dunn in the real estate group. We are supposedly pretty lean and doing pretty well according to firm leaders, but anyone have any thoughts and heard any rumors about GDC? My hours weren't too bad this last year, but everyone seems to be slowing down now.

@ 116 - nice Muppets reference. Seinfeld sucks.

139, does that mean that PE firms sitting on huge amounts of money are sitting pretty because when they decided that the market has finally hit bottom they'll swoop in and start buying up companies on the cheap?

From what I hear the PE guys are mostly sitting on their hands.

GT is a very unleveraged firm. Some offices have almost equal associates to partners and some have way more partners than associates. It seems to work.

What amazes me is how some of the V50 firms have been able to keep their stealth layoffs quiet. I know of two firms that have 100% laid off at least 10 associates each who have not been discussed on ATL.

Wonder if they're giving them lots of $ not to talk.

Some of the GT partners aren't that bright, most partners are egomaniacs, and associates aren't paid as well as at other firms. But, unlike my peers at other biglaw firms, I get substantive work and work directly with partners on all of my cases. What partners lack on intellectual ability they make up for with practicality, business sense, good judgment, and lower billing rates. All the stuff on this board about GT is pretty negative. It's not perfect, but I think the firm is well-positioned for this economy (outside of the real estate practice) because its rates are so much lower than other biglaw firms and it does not have a lot of dying bank and financial institution clients.

I'll second the opinion that the Hunton mothership in Richmond is next.

168, if you know 100%, why don't you just name them here and now?

163-
thank you
-155

Note to law students and laterals: crap firms give crap severance.

What V&E does right is run off no-business and low margin equity partners. They do it Godfather-style and make them offers they can't refuse. Here's $2 million, get out or be removed and get nothing. Not having a bunch of vitality sucking partners around is the be genius of their system and it goes back to the ETSI money.

174, wow that is interesting. Can I ask your source for that information. That is a great philosophy.

True dat 134.

bad news coming from Holland & Knight in all offices, in all practice areas

169 -- you say GT is "well-positioned for this economy?" Then explain all of the layoffs?? Are you right out of law school?

GT is a crap firm... sorry. It's crap.

134 hit the nail on the head with that. Boooyahhshakkalaka!!!!!

GT hates black people. Especially the black ones.

168-Do us all a favor and name them.

Hates Black people? Then why did the firm host Obama? There was a big Obama following and involvement there. According to the Business Review, two of their shareholders were being rumored as being considered for U.S. Attorney.

Wa wa we wah wah we wah .... minorities.

Cock
Love it.
In my throat.
Sometimes in my butt.

is there any good firm that calls its partners Shareholders?

Man it feels good to be in restructuring!

178 - "All of these layoffs?" We don't even know how many people were affected yet from this post or other sources. As for GT's positioning, the business model of mid-sized regional offices means that no one client makes up more than 1% of gross revenue for the firm. GT is the mutual fund of law firms: not sexy, but stable.

Who cares about GT, it's a cess-pool. Absolute backwater. 168 - what are these other firms that did stealth layoffs that weren't reported on ATL? Care to share?

Holland & Knight always follows whatever GT does - its the yin to GT's yang in the Florida market. So expect some bad news this week.

job security is in the person, not the job. The associates who get cut have just been unable to demonstrate that they can add value via originating new business or adapting to other legal service lines is why they are cut. All you associates stop feeling sorry for yourself, go look in the mirrors with your JD and make the most of your pathetic lives.

job security is in the person, not the job. The associates who get cut have just been unable to demonstrate that they can add value via originating new business or adapting to other legal service lines is why they are cut. All you associates stop feeling sorry for yourself, go look in the mirrors with your JD and make the most of your pathetic lives.

job security is in the person, not the job. The associates who get cut have just been unable to demonstrate that they can add value via originating new business or adapting to other legal service lines is why they are cut. All you associates stop feeling sorry for yourself, go look in the mirrors with your JD and make the most of your pathetic lives.

178 - are you right out of law school? You have no idea whether there a lot of layoffs, and frankly, real estate is slow and the firm has a large percentage of real estate lawyers so this didn't come as a surprise. No one's entitled to keeping their biglaw job forever, especially when there's no work for them. I feel very sorry for those attorneys and it stinks, but how long should a biglaw firm pay six figures to people who aren't covering their salaries?

191 -- you supid motherfucker! Who told you that you could use my computer? You still have to plumb my toilet!

Goddamnit, I hope your plumbing skills are better than your posting skills or you will come back 3 times before you get the fuck out.

166 and 188 and 194 -- have you seen the comments about GT on this board? Did you notice the ATL headline to this article? Perhaps reading slower will help with comprehension. You sound like a newbie first year, or a senior GT insider. Perhaps GT should have considered the economy (its been no secret that things were going to get much worse) before it took on the attorneys that it is now said above by others to be layaying off, whatever the number. Are you saying none of the comments above have any truth? Those folks working for GT matter and, anyone laid off for economic reasons deservs its firm to be smart about all its hiring decions. Not to mention the two months severance (if that is accurate) for its professionals. Since you sound like an insider, why don't you just go ahead and confirm in writing right now for everyone the past and intended exact number of layoffs firmwide for all of 2008, along with whether the two months severence as mentioned above is accurate. Let's not leave it to mystery. Remove any doubt and let the ATL readers know those exact figures now, so he or she can decide for themselves what is right and fair.

196, are you kidding? Do you really expect GT - or any law firm - that hired people years ago would have been able to project the housing bubble bursting, foreclosure crisis, and current economic situation??

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here, advising any laid off associate who is looking for work to consider applying to Blackwater or Triple Canopy. All of my former associates work there and make a lot more money than they did working for me, and the working conditions are significantly better too.

188, the term "all these layoffs" does not state or imply any number or size. Read before defending.

However, your comment that "no one client makes up more than 1% of gross revenue for the firm" is info one would normally expect if it is an insider commenting here on ATL. If so, take 196 up on the request for specific details. Or have you used your comment 197 to instead decline?

194, your reading is incorrect. You are implying something not said by 178 Why is that?

I agree someone needs to keep "score" of which firms have conducted layoffs and when. I was a staff person at DLA Piper and was recently laid off. White & Case recently layed off 100 staff and 90 attorneys. Firms are closing their doors and the markets are being saturated with associates, paralegals and staff. Belts are being tightened which means there are not enough jobs available for everyone who has been axed. This is happening all over the country. Legal Times spells it all out. And it does include all the rebuttals from GT about layoffs. Unreal.

201 -- We all know this. The market sucks, so if/when we get laid off, we are fucked.

Every company is cutting back, so I don't see why law firms should be immune. We are entering a new age, and in this new age, associates will appreciate their jobs like never before.

Serious question: can firms reduce associate salaries in this environment? I think some of us would be willing to shave off 10-15k off our salaries if we knew it would help provide more job security.

Oh ya, and 3L's are all fucked. We will all have our offers revoked in the next few months.

Peace!

202, regarding 3Ls, not necessarily. Decisions about whether or not to revoke 3L offers are really a statement about what the firms think the market is going to look like in 2010 (and of course the practice group the 3L has an offer in).

187 - i figga deal you bro.

-billing ten hours on a sunday...yea lehman!!!

200- huh?? The poster said: "Then explain all of the layoffs?? Are you right out of law school?" How was that misread??

203 -- I agree that firms will be looking to 2010 when deciding whether to revoke 3l offers. But, as the firm managers begin to realize that 2010 will look WORSE than 2009, at least in terms of transactional work, they will have no choice but to revoke 40-50% of the offers they made to summers in 2008.

This is just reality.

196, GT has over 1800 attorneys, over 20% of them in real estate, with the most attorneys in hard-hit places like NYC and Florida. You tell me, what number of layoffs is "fair"? Zero? Even if the attorneys aren't covering their salaries and/or making the firm any money? Even if the attorneys aren't good?

179: sounds like you got axed.

203-Agreed;

2009 will not provide for any good news/forecasts that 2010 will be a year of any real expansion-slow growth at best but more likely further contraction and a ton of uncertainty.

Expect offers to start being revoked and more layoffs in the comming months, even from firms that have already laid off staff & associates/partners. There will be a lot of summers in 2009 that will be no-offered and OCI next fall will be brutal.

206-Agreed;

2009 will not provide for any good news/forecasts that 2010 will be a year of any real expansion-slow growth at best but more likely further contraction and a ton of uncertainty.

Expect offers to start being revoked and more layoffs in the comming months, even from firms that have already laid off staff & associates/partners. There will be a lot of summers in 2009 that will be no-offered and OCI next fall will be brutal.

205, I agree with 200. One saying "explain all these layoffs" does not equal 194's comment of "You have no idea whether there a lot of layoffs." Who ever said he or she did? Asking for an explanation in no way references or imposes a magnitude to the number of layoffs . 194 is wrong. Different words. Different meanings, unless 194 is assuming. It isn't a tough analysis.

207 sounds like another firm insider. Let's not guess. Remove any doubt and let the ATL readers know exact figures, so he or she can decide for themselves what is right and fair.

211, the poster was making a point that the previous comment about the firm being well-positioned was incorrect because of "all these layoffs." Laying off some attorneys in a 1800+ attorney firm does not mean that the firm isn't well positioned. The explanation for the layoffs is simple, no? Poor performance or those attorneys did not have enough work/business to carry their own weight.

It’s premature to say that 2010 will be a down year, let alone worse than 2009 will be. If you look at the historical data, the biggest bull markets are coming out of recessions. Many firms learned this lesson the hard way in the early 2000s when they laid a bunch of people off and then didn’t have enough attorneys when the markets caught fire.

213 - the poster (# 169) also said "Some of the GT partners aren't that bright, most partners are egomaniacs, and associates aren't paid as well as at other firms..." So, if another poster on a site like ATL asks for a further explanation about why 169 thought GT is so well positioned in light of his own words anthe layoffs (whatever the number winds up being), I think it is a fair question to ask without 169 assuming the follow-up inquiry had implied any order of magnitude to the number of layoffs. Just read 169's own words.

yeah, v&e's niche is pretty sweet -- defending war profiteers and energy. those are 2 pretty nice areas to be in and will be for a very long time. and 160k in texas is not too shabby. a lot of students who once were in awe of simpson thacher will be choosing v&e.

This Nervous t-10 1L dude/girl is infuriating.

214 -- Are you for realz? Historical data has been -- and will continue to be -- completely useless throughout this mess. We are living through the end of the LONG bull market, which started after WW2.

No recovery until 2015.

133- Did the guy take your place at Cravath?

218 - nice try but there won't be any recovery until AT LEAST 2050. And even then it will be ultra-slow growth. We probably won't see normal growth again for another hundre years or so.

220 is correct. The Age of Pisces is about to end. Make way for the water-bearer, Aquarius, and a new market consciousness.

220 -- you are an idiot.

218 - you are an idiot

209 - That was this year; large number of no-offers/cold offers and brutal OCI. Lots of people don't have jobs who would have had jobs last year. Hell, judicial clerks have had a hard time getting work.

2009 will be worse, though. You can expect a massive round of layoffs in January, more firm implosions, recisions to summers, no offers to summers, recisions to incoming first years and an OCI that will be even smaller than it was this year.

224 - Don't forget that layoffs, firm implosions, offer recissions and no offers will get progressively worse until the end of time. In thirty years the few remaining law firms that exist will actually defy the laws of nature and have summer classes of less than zero. Yes you heard it here first - Skadden's summer class in 2030 will be negative 80, and those lucky enough to be part of the group will actually have to pay the firm to employ them. Black will be white, up will be down and yes - perhaps even Weil will be considered elite.

Mark my words, the end of days is upon us.

BUY CANNED FOOD AND MOVE TO IDAHO!

I hear some firm in new york asked some 2L to consider applying to other firms

BUY MORE AMMO! !

Chicken little - A Chicken who jumps to a conclusion and whips the populace into mass hysteria.

The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

Make fun of me all you want. Mark this post -- there will be no economic recovery for a GENERATION! I know people who are high up in the corporate ladder, and they all confirm this.

3L's, we need to start organizing.

when in the hell does the 2008 nalp stuff come out????

147, I'm in an East Coast Orrick office and we made a similar offer to our partners.

The partners can't take an offer like that, though- they don't want to be negotiating with us as a group for reduced salaries.

And there's no guarantee that this will be the last round of layoffs, so the partners can't let associates think that they can keep everybody through mutual sacrifice. If it's just one associate they could, but not if the firm ends up cutting deeper.

Anyhow, making the offer was the right thing for the associates to do, and declining it was the right thing for the partners to do.

-Orrick associate

225:
Will shit be number one?

Where's the Cravath bonus memo?

Bet we're all thrilled with our decision to o into law school now! Okay, back to the job search on http://www.outlines.com/. Reading these articles makes me depressed. Pharmacy is now ranked as a better career than law!

231, fuck that - I am not taking a pay cut. Even if I only bill 1600 hours I am still making the firm a shitload of money ...

114: Fried Frank ____ Stealth

114: Fried Frank ____ Stealth

235 - but you have signalled to them that you are not partner material and that they should just take their chances with a cheaper first year

Looking for sign of trouble everywhere, I've been keeping close tabs on my future firm’s partnership announcements (I'm a 3L).

Here's a list of the number of associates that have been made partners at my firm in the last 6 years.

2008 12
2007 10
2006 11
2005 7
2004 9
2003 8

This year's new partners were announced November 10 (last Monday).

Notice something interesting? The firm continues to increase the number of new partners. I'll take that as a sign that the world is not coming to an end . . . well, maybe not yet anyway.

Yes its true that in the 1930's the sky did not fall, however there were some large black dust clouds in the midwest & plain states that gave one that appearance.

The 5 major investment banks are either gone or are bank holding companies; largest insurance company in the world collapsed;

On deck for failure: Goldman, Morgan, Citi, Detriot, Pru, California

Mad Max scenario: either the Road Warrior or Beyond Thunderdome-take your pick

American Express is also now a bank holding company.

"H-Bankers" are the new "I-Bankers"

Some of the law firms like Mayer, Baker, & and Dechert should considered becoming hank holding companies too so that when they are the brink of dissolution they can tap the TARP.

In 1929, we had a currency that was backed by gold. Today, we have toilet paper backed by unrepayable debt. Back in 29 we had a manufacturing base that could be mobilized with government spending. Today we have very little but a service job economy. The comparisons are endless, and they are all much worse for us and the world today than in 29.

http://www.reuters.com/article/Finance08/idUSTRE4AB7HT20081112

231 - can you expand on the "we can't be sure these will be the last cuts" sentiment?

242, maybe I too can become a bank holding company. i need the cash for my loans.

May not need to become one-hold your breath for TARP II on the horizon for the coming credit card securitization collapse in the comming weeks.

243, Please explain why it's much worse for us because the the economy is different.

[In talk radio parlance: I'll take my answer off the air]

247-ask this guy

http://www.reuters.com/article/Finance08/idUSTRE4AB7HT20081112

Its possible that it will be much worse because the economy is different

Who will write the law firm version of Liar's Poker?

http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom

244, I'm just saying that nobody saw this round of layoffs coming, and if economic conditions worsen over the next 18-24 months who knows what could happen, at Orrick or any firm?

anyone know about king and spalding? i've heard they are losing clients. any insiders care to comment?

king spalding. :( :( :(

251 - EVERYONE saw this coming

biglaw is bloated and needs to right size

lots more cuts coming and that is healthy - biglaw associates historically were the best and brightest, not merely the available as firms tried to fill their monster, ridiculous summer classes

Citigroup to cut 53,000 jobs

Billing hours does not equal making the firm tons of money unless you know (1) that none of those hours are written off (for poor quality, took too long, client discount, client asked for the time to be written off, client doesn't want to pay for juniors, etc.) and (2) your firm actually collects the money (which gets tougher when your client is on the verge of declaring bankruptcy or has already done so).

251, thanks for that - I should explain, I'm interested because I'm an incoming 1st year. I'm not all that alarmed over the layoffs (what else can you do with a big structured finance group?) - but yeah, here's hoping it's the last of them.

251, thanks for that - I should explain, I'm interested because I'm an incoming 1st year. I'm not all that alarmed over the layoffs (what else can you do with a big structured finance group?) - but yeah, here's hoping it's the last of them.

246 - Credit card securitization is garbage voodoo and deserves to go extinct. There is a huge difference between MBS and ABS - the asset behind the mortgages is collectable, and actually worth at least something significant.

ABS paper is trash because it is effectively backed by nothing, and is below the government, the mortgage and the HELOC. Student loans, auto loans, credit cards - doesn't matter. There's no collateral, and credit cards in particular can be junked in BK.

There is collateral behind a auto loans--it's called an auto.

Please do an article about what happens to the laid-off attorneys! Are they finding work? Getting picked up by other firms? Doing PI? ????

Please do an article about what happens to the laid-off attorneys! Are they finding work? Getting picked up by other firms? Doing PI? ????

Please do an article about what happens to the laid-off attorneys! Are they finding work? Getting picked up by other firms? Doing PI? ????

Now that the weekend is over, is there any concrete information on the GT layoffs?

47: actually, the full michael ray richardson quote was: ship be sinking, and the sky's the limit.

my all-time favorite sports quote,

264 - nada

GT's website shows 73 people in real estate in NY, the same number listed as on Friday. Anyone have the scoop from inside GT?

Lat would have had the number...

Lat would have had the number of people fired by now...

Can someone explain why the firms would be cutting their RE sectors? While the transactional work would be down, foreclosures and workout would be up. What do you think? Is it a bad time to going into RE law?

I'm a 3L who will be working for GT next year. I can tell you that the firm is actually quite open with the associates about the inner workings and finances of the firm.

For example, they had a firm-wide conference call this summer that explained, in detail, financial information of the firm. I was told by laterals who worked in my office that their old firms, such as Kirkland, Latham, and Skadden, never provided their associates with that level of info.

As far as the layoffs are concerned, it's unfortunate but that's business. Is GT as prestigious as some firms? No. Is it still a great place to work? Absolutely.

Some of you biglaw types really need to get over yourselves.

Why isn't Greenberg Traurig on the Am Law Layoff list?

Did the Real Estate layoffs not happen?

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202425647706#simp

Why isn't Greenberg Traurig on the Am Law Layoff list?

Did the Real Estate layoffs not happen?

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202425647706#simp

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202426121289&rss=newswire

obviously, the Greenberg layoffs materialized as the above article acknowledges. Seriously Elie, I was one of your sole defenders but you have flat out dropped the ball. We can no longer rely on this blog.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202426121289&rss=newswire

3 associates and 2 part timers (probably contract attorneys)?!? These aren't layoffs, GT is HUGE, they lose more than three associates a day. Big freaking deal. This is a non-story.

GT has around 1850 attorneys and they fired 5, only 3 of which were full time associates. Wow. That's not even a 1% layoff.

I would like to second 271's comments. GT is a great place to work!!! I am certain that those people who continue to criticize it are not current or past employees and therefore have no idea what they're talking about.

I would like to second 271's comments. GT is a great place to work!!! I am certain that those people who continue to criticize it are not current or past employees and therefore have no idea what they're talking about.

I would like to second 271's comments. GT is a great place to work!!! I am certain that those people who continue to criticize it are not current or past employees and therefore have no idea what they're talking about.

I heard it was more like 6 full-time associates, and a few others in other departments.

I heard it was more like 6 full-time associates, and a few others in other departments.

Know GT firsthand; got laid off by them 8 months ago -- GT layoffs didn't begin and end with lawyers. Believe it or not, business staff also needs to pay its bills and eat! GT laid off and continues to lay off its staff with TWO WEEKS SEV. Lawyers: Just be much better stewards of your funds. How you figure a secretary survives on two weeks' salary when there's a hiring freeze out here? Oh, pooh. Probably couldn't find a lawyer who cares. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Know GT firsthand; got laid off by them 8 months ago -- GT layoffs didn't begin and end with lawyers. Believe it or not, business staff also needs to pay its bills and eat! GT laid off and continues to lay off its staff with TWO WEEKS SEV. Lawyers: Just be much better stewards of your funds. How you figure a secretary survives on two weeks' salary when there's a hiring freeze out here? Oh, pooh. Probably couldn't find a lawyer who cares. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Not unexpected. They went on an acquisition binge, thinking "bigger is always better". But if you don't manage your offices properly, then there are no savings in being bigger. Clients are getting tired of huge bills that are just printouts of timesheets. Associates are getting tired of working for the "Sweatshop of Miami" (a phrase from one of their own brochures!).

For a lot of transactional work, you can hire smaller firms for a lot less money. Many companies are cutting back on legal services and are finding these smaller firms - even solo practitioners - to do the donkey work that they use to pay huge amounts of dough for.

I don't see this trend reversing anytime soon. The megafirms are like the fellow who bought the 5-mpg Hummer during a summer of $5-a-gallon gas. You can try to slow down and economize all you want, but a Hummer is still a gas hog. The very structure of these firms work against them. They cannot be made efficient because of the staggering overhead.

Expect to see some mega-firms fall apart spectacularly in the next few months. Many already are...

I left GT years ago and hung out my shingle. With the Internet, you can work anywhere in the world, so long as you have a high-speed internet connection.

I work about 4 hours a day now, from 8 to noon, and then take the afternoons off. This year has been BUSY for me, as I get clients transferring work from some very large firms (usually complaining about the bills). I actually will make more money this year than last.

Working for a large firm like GT was interesting, but even though I was making "more" money (not a lot more), I was working longer hours, and spending more money on clothes, commuting, and a lot of big-city lifestyle choices that in retrospect, seem silly.

I talked with one of my law school chums the other day. He's a partner (with ulcers) at a large firm that was recently acquired by one of these mega-firms. He said the growth in the law business these days is for high-end firms with high-end clients (who can pay high-end prices), or for solo practitioners or boutique shops that can do the work fast and cheap.

Firms that charge a lot of money for their name alone, while churning out mediocre work are toast, he says.

Oddly enough, since I am getting a lot of work from dissatisfied clients from the big firms, I can actually raise my rates, as they are less than half what the big firms are charging.

For routine transactional work, there is no need to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in tribute to "Caesar" if you know what I mean.

For all you "3L"s posting out there, get the experience of working at these firms. But don't delude yourself that you are going to make partner someday. The entire partnership gag is a pyramid scheme. It is physically impossible for every young associate to climb the ladder to partnership, unless the firm can expand exponentially (which it can't).

And once you reach the top of that ladder, you may wonder why you bothered climbing it.

If you are in the law business for the money, there will never be enough money and no satisfaction. You have to do this because you love it. The mega-firms are all about the money. Read the comments above and how many of them are about firm finances, salaries, severance packages, and MONEY.

Those types of lawyers should be laid off, frankly.

The ultimate problem, is, of course, that we have too many lawyers in the US. People see these legal shows on television (the Paper Chase, LA Law, Boston Legal - every generation has one) and young kids think, "Wow, I'll make a ton of money, get laid, and drive a Mercedes, how hard is that?"

The market gets flooded with lawyers. The reality is, Partners hire young Associates with stars in their eyes about the legal business. They are smart enough to do good legal work, cheap, but not experienced enough to figure out that the entire "Partnership Track" deal is a con job (which is why it is "up or out" at most firms - they do not want jaded older Asssociates telling the newbies the truth.

The Pyramid structure of a law firm means that maybe 1 in 10 young Associates (maybe 1 in 20) will ever make partner at a firm. Most will make partner at a different firm. You see, the last thing the Partners want is for you to take a slice of their pie. And they certainly don't want you to have clients of your own (you were hired to serve their clients!). I have seen firms where Associates are discouraged from rainmaking.

Or, if some Associate brings in a client (and old college chum who is now in-house counsel at a big company) a senior partner is assigned to "mentor" the the Associate - and get all the client origination credit. The Associate usually ends up leaving and starting his own practice or doing a lateral to another firm.

But most young Associates end up leaving the big firms for good. Where do they go?

Some, like myself, start their own practices and live happily every after.

Others start firms of their own - maybe with other folks, and, if they are lucky, end up with a big firm later on (and big headaches - ever seen a HAPPY partner?)

Others go "in-house" or become government lawyers.

And yet others end up driving a cab.

What the article about layoffs doesn't mention is all the Associates who leave under their own power. If you have to wait for a LAYOFF from a firm, you really are clueless. You should see this coming when there is a lack of work to do, or your client's are going bankrupt.

The law business will change dramatically in the next few years. I've even had inquires from Indian law firms, offering to "farm out" some work (drafting documents, etc.) offshore.

It used to be that being a Doctor or Lawyer was a ticket to an upper-middle-class or even wealthy lifestyle. Ask your Doctor how that is working out these days - many are struggling to stay middle class, with the pitiful fees insurance companies pay. I see the same thing happening to the Lawyering business, if it has not happened already.

Again, if you are in this for the money, you will not likely ever be satisfied.

FWIW.