Nationwide Layoff Watch: Orrick Lays Off Attorneys
We received reports this morning that Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe was planning to make deep cuts into their structured finance, real estate and corporate departments.
We’ve been able to confirm that Orrick is laying off 40 associates and 35 staff members today. The structured finance and real estate departments are expected to be the hardest hit. Associates were notified by chairman Ralph Baxter via email (which included a video).
Despite Orrick’s refusal to respond to our multiple requests for comment all morning, we can also report that displaced attorneys are getting two weeks notice plus five months severance. That is better than the severance package offered by White & Case on Tuesday.
Orrick was willing to speak with the WSJ Law Blog. The firm told the WSJ that they tried to avoid cutbacks for as long as possible:
Throughout 2008, we have done all we could to avoid today’s action: we have redeployed lawyers to different practices and we have cut expenses. Unfortunately, our staffing levels in the affected practices still remained too high given the economic environment our clients and we face.”
While the firm contends that these moves were taken solely in response to the economic crisis, a tipster tells us that the real reason was “to maintain PPP [profits per partner] of $1.5 million in 2009.”
So sad — and surprising. Orrick, you might remember, was one of the first major firms to raise associate salaries to $160K outside of New York. After Orrick moved, the rest of California followed: Latham, Gibson, OMM, even Thelen (kind of).
Just last month, we reported on how some firms (including Orrick) were using the market downturn as an opportunity to acquire productive lawyers and good clients. Baxter was highlighted in the WSJ article. And two weeks ago, Orrick stood behind its previously announced 2008 bonus structure.
But apparently some people had to go. We understand that the layoffs will affect multiple offices.
Update (2 PM): The firm finally sent over its statement. Check it out after the jump.
ORRICK, HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE — PRESS RELEASE — LAYOFFS
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP announced today that it is laying off
approximately 40 associates and counsel in the firm’s Real Estate,
Structured Finance, and Corporate practices. In addition, the firm is
laying off approximately 35 staff.
We believe these actions are necessary to adapt to changes in the world
economy and the demand for certain legal services. These actions are
unrelated to performance and are across the firm’s global regions.
We regret the need to take today’s actions and the impact they will have
on talented lawyers and staff. We will provide generous severance and
outplacement services to help make the individual transitions as smooth
as possible.
For over a year, the capital markets around the world have experienced
unprecedented challenges. As a result, our clients in the Real Estate,
Structured Finance, and some parts of our Corporate practices have
reduced their transactions, leading to material overstaffing.
Throughout 2008, we have done all we could to avoid today’s action: we
have redeployed lawyers to different practices and we have cut expenses.
Unfortunately, our staffing levels in the affected practices still
remained too high given the economic environment our clients and we
face. The three affected practice areas, however, continue their roles
as important financial and strategic contributors.
We have continued in 2008 our strategy of investing in the future and,
this past year, added lateral partners throughout strategic practices
and locations. We have been able to improve our market position and
geographic and practice scope and depth. These additions have made us
stronger and have helped us minimize the scope of today’s actions.
We take these steps with deep regret, but have concluded that they are
necessary and in the firm’s best long-term interests.
Orrick to Trim About 40 Lawyers, 35 Staff — “Unrelated to Performance” [WSJ Law Blog]
Earlier: Skaddenfreude: Orrick Raises California Salaries
Associate Bonus Watch: Orrick Stands Behind Bonus Structure
Nationwide Layoff Watch: White & Case Brings Layoffs into the Vault Top 20
(227) 
Comments
FIRST-SUCK IT ORRICK!
I am CONFIDENT that my post will be first!
-Confident T14 2L
First
Confident T14 2L
I WIN. SUCK IT
-#1
First from Orrick!!!
MysTTTal has been en fuego today. It's nice to see that he's finally decided to stop sucking.
Any word on which offices are affected? Orrick has a structured finance practice in DC.
Orrick is arguably the top firm headquartered in NorCal right now - scary stuff!
2 = overconfident
Any word on which offices are affected? Orrick has a structured finance practice in DC.
No props to WSJ law blog?!?!?! Seriously ATL sucks...
SkaddenDC has been making deep cuts in its corporate department since the middle of last month. This is pretty standard now.
Bad news for SF
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!!!!
Where my battered women at? All over the country, bitches.
ugh, what a bloodbath.
I tried the Orrick XL and now I'll never use another vacuum cleaner.
What amazes me is how these global firms are cutting like crazy and V50 firms are all saying things are peachy. At least the V20/10 are fessing up to the cuts. Look at the Atlanta market. The bloodletting has begun and the PR goons are spinning like mad to cover it up.
SkaddenDC has been laying off litigation staff attorneys and associates for awhile too. It's not just corporate.
Good for Orrick to choose pay over people, this is exactly how a firm should behave. Less pay upsets employees, hurts morale, and often times makes employees feel like they shouldn't have to work as hard if they're getting less. This would just set the firm up for another bad year.
Cutting people also upsets employees, but the negative feelings are more concentrated in a few people: the ones you've canned. The firm doesn't suffer nearly much when ex-employees are mad as when current ones are.
And in conclusion, RMFT!
Sounds like 12 got no offered at SkaddenDC
He had the nerve to layoff people via emailed video? VIDEO?!
So let me understand this. Two Northern California firms fold and the largest remaining one has large layoffs, but there is no mention about how bad the San Francisco legal market is. And the last post even emphasizes how the layoffs are in multiple offices. In Chicago, one firm lays off a large amount of attorneys, most of them in Charlotte, but also some in Chicago, another one lays off attorneys in multiple offices, another gets rid of 10 partners, the same as they have done the last couple of years, and a real estate boutique lays people off, and Chicago is the place where work goes to die?
Maybe Orrick should've not raised to 160k only to slice this many people. Maybe had they stayed at 145k they wouldn't have this problem. Typical big WEST COAST firms wanting to be big bad NY donkeys...dumb move.
had it with the skads dc shit. pics or it didn't happen, and those three posters are the same.
Sounds like 12 got no offered at SkaddenDC
How do all these layoffs relate to 2 Girls 1 Cup and a whole lotta Mystal?
Have there been massive layoffs in ATL or just a few stealth ones?
Orrick has been stealthily laying off for some months now.
Former Thelen partner and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here, wondering whether it was really such a smart move for Weitzel to drag us over to Orrick. It was bad enough that our actions led to the destruction of Thelen, but who knew that we were going to be screwed at Orrick too?
Wondering whether my beloved little associates who followed me here will be the first on the chopping block, Glass Cock Out.
At least they didn't claim it was performance related.
Bob Wainwright announcement re: layoffs will be coming out shortly.
i believe that atlanta has the shittiest market right now. a lot of stealth layoffs have been going on down here with little to no reporting by ATL. ask any recruiter about the activity in atlanta and they will say it is essentially dead.
ATLANTA to NUMBER 1.
this sucks.
Orrick is going to merge with Thelen.
For a firm so heavily involved in securitization I'm surprised that Orrick has made it this long w/o layoffs. Looks like their strong litigation practice was able to balance things out for a while.
"Despite Orrick's refusal to respond to our multiple requests for comment all morning, we can also that displaced attorneys are receiving two weeks notice and five months severance."
nice
King and Spalding is shitting out associates everywhere as is Locke Lord.
24 - right on. bullshit on skadden dc.
So when a firm admits that it is not performance related, isn't that at least a little bit of BS? I mean, unless entire practice groups are let go, then some associates are let go and some stay, so there is obviously some performance factor. Well, unless they do a lottery or do something like everyone with a last name starting A through J is gone.
32
What is going on in Atlanta? Where are the layoffs?
22 - "In Chicago, one firm lays off a large amount of attorneys, most of them in Charlotte..."
You need to check your sources. This statement is wrong.
JMBM...best run firm in CA.
Recent Thelen hires first to go in Orrick layoffs.
SF firms are the worst and I worry that all of the top SF firms will eventually fold or merge. They can't compete with NYC firms like LA firms (Latham, Quinn, Gibson, OMM) can. Part of their reason is that they don't have cut-throat cultures. They are so goody-goody lets help the world. Let's do pro bono. Let's donate money. Sure, big NYC firms do that too but they have much higher profits per partner and more respected corporate practices that can still get sufficient business.
To give but one example, I know a top SF firm that recently spend hundreds of thousands sponsoring election day poll monitoring. I mean, that's a noble cause but this firm isn't known to be doing well. They paid for their associates to go to Nevada. They gave them $75 a day to spend on food. They let them do two days of non-billables. Again, nice cause but in this economy shouldn't you be worrying about surviving and growing instead of blowing money on crap. This is a classic example of why SF firms are doing so poorly.
32
What is going on in Atlanta? Where are the layoffs?
Yeah, there is no way SkaddenDC is letting people go. They are one of the strongest and best run shops inside the beltway. Bullshit on #12. Sorry dude, SkaddenDC is just too good.
What is with all the SkaddenDC posts? There has been no coverage of this anywhere (not on ATL, WSJ Law Blog, etc.). Is this just another "frat stud" or "nervous T10 1L" type of repetitive post that someone thinks is funny?
"we can also report that displace attorneys"... displaceD.
Atlanta firms rumored to have laid folks off include A&B, Kilpatrick Stockton, Morris Manning and Smith Gambrell.
SF firms are the worst and I worry that all of the top SF firms will eventually fold or merge. They can't compete with NYC firms like LA firms (Latham, Quinn, Gibson, OMM) can. Part of their reason is that they don't have cut-throat cultures. They are so goody-goody lets help the world. Let's do pro bono. Let's donate money. Sure, big NYC firms do that too but they have much higher profits per partner and more respected corporate practices that can still get sufficient business.
To give but one example, I know a top SF firm that recently spend hundreds of thousands sponsoring election day poll monitoring. I mean, that's a noble cause but this firm isn't known to be doing well. They paid for their associates to go to Nevada. They gave them $75 a day to spend on food. They let them do two days of non-billables. Again, nice cause but in this economy shouldn't you be worrying about surviving and growing instead of blowing money on crap. This is a classic example of why SF firms are doing so poorly.
You received a report this morning? Then how come you got beat by WSJ blog again!
Orrick should've checked with Millner, or compared notes, before admitting their firm's business was in the toilet. Not that anyone is fooled by creeps like Millner.
40- The CFO at Sonnenschein lied to me? Oh well, I suppose I should expect that since he's leaving the firm anyway.
What is with the O. We don't need any pictures of Elie's pie hole.
I have not heard about anything bad happening at Skadden DC, know a whole bunch of people who work there. I know this guy is probably a flamer with a grudge against Skadden DC, but ATL it might be a good idea to reach out to someone at Skadden DC and see if you can get a comment from the firm or any inside sources you may have. Seems to me it might stop this annoying flame bait.
If Mystal was a law firm, he would not be SkaddenDC. If Hofstra was a blogger, it would be Mystal. This thought came from my thinking place.
Bindy Palin
I like that in England when you get laid off they tell you "you've been made redundant." I think that sounds way more prestigious than getting laid off.
48--don't forget to include hunton in that list of atlanta stealth layoffs
I have not heard about anything bad happening at Skadden DC, know a whole bunch of people who work there. I know this guy is probably a flamer with a grudge against Skadden DC, but ATL it might be a good idea to reach out to someone at Skadden DC and see if you can get a comment from the firm or any inside sources you may have. Seems to me it might stop this annoying flame bait.
SF firms are the worst and I worry that all of the top SF firms will eventually fold or merge. They can't compete with NYC firms like LA firms (Latham, Quinn, Gibson, OMM) can. Part of their reason is that they don't have cut-throat cultures. They are so goody-goody lets help the world. Let's do pro bono. Let's donate money. Sure, big NYC firms do that too but they have much higher profits per partner and more respected corporate practices that can still get sufficient business.
To give but one example, I know a top SF firm that recently spend hundreds of thousands sponsoring election day poll monitoring. I mean, that's a noble cause but this firm isn't known to be doing well. They paid for their associates to go to Nevada. They gave them $75 a day to spend on food. They let them do two days of non-billables. Again, nice cause but in this economy shouldn't you be worrying about surviving and growing instead of blowing money on crap. This is a classic example of why SF firms are doing so poorly.
Any word on whether these were primarily new hires or mid-levels? Seems like the W&C losses were mostly 3rd and 4th years from what I've heard, curious to see if it's the same at Orrick.
If there's a good chance you'll be laid off, is it better to be laid off SOONER (ahead of the curve in terms of job searching, though that time has arguably passed) or LATER (if and when everybody else dumps)? Or does it not matter because everybody who might suspect they're on the chopping block will already be searching high and low?
Former Thelen partner and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here, wondering whether it was really such a smart move for Weitzel to drag us over to Orrick. It was bad enough that our actions led to the destruction of Thelen, but who knew that we were going to be screwed at Orrick too?
Wondering whether my beloved little associates who followed me here will be the first on the chopping block, Glass Cock Out.
Stealth layoff wall of shame:
Skadden DC
Alston & Bird
King & Spalding
Milbank NYC
I have not heard about anything bad happening at Skadden DC, know a whole bunch of blacks who work there. I know this guy is probably a flamer with a grudge against Skadden DC, but ATL it might be a good idea to reach out to someone at Skadden DC and see if you can get a comment from the firm or any inside sources you may have. Seems to me it might stop this annoying flame bait.
People need to realize that this is happening everywhere, with V5 firms just being more discreet. When Cravath oversubscribed last summer, they didn't no-offer anyone, but instead politely told a number of litigation summers that it was in their best interest to seriously attempt to get a clerkship because there wouldn't be enough work to go around their first year out. And this was before things got bad.
I have not heard about anything bad happening at Skadden DC, know a whole bunch of blacks who work there. I know this guy is probably a flamer with a grudge against Skadden DC, but ATL it might be a good idea to reach out to someone at Skadden DC and see if you can get a comment from the firm or any inside sources you may have. Seems to me it might stop this annoying flame bait.
Orrick?!!!?!? Even I wouldn't work at Orrick.
- Tard Palin
this is 32 -
every, and i mean EVERY major firm here in Atlanta has been doing stealth layoffs for the past year. like the SF firms, they thought they could compete by growing. when the work retracted a year ago, the southern hick firms were the first to be let go. only large firms in major markets held on for some time. atlanta is not a major market, and therefore, the work left. now, we have, i think, 5 firms in atlanta with 500 or more associates. atlanta is not that big. institutional clients dont need that much work done. where did all the work come from to build these bohemoths in a secondary market? it came from overflow from firms in primary markets. when that dries up, the hangers-on lose out first. that happened about a year ago. all big atlanta firms are bleeding associates. bank on it.
Any news from Mofo?
so nervous.... *patiently waits for elie to offer him a job as proofreader, it's going to be my only option*
-nervous T-10 1L
email job leads to nervoust101l@yahoo.com
69 - yeah, this just in - they suck.
really milbank has had layoffs in nyc?
Southern hick firms like V&E and Locke Lord are in trouble too.
Any word on Nixon Peabody?
i LOVE glascock (aka Glass Cock)!
Is Dewey Ballantine OK?
Thank you, 70. Keep up the good work!
The SEC and Treasury are looking for people to waste taxpayers moneys instead of the private sector.
Yeah I'm amazed they made it this long, structured finance is (was) a big part of the transactional business, esp. in N.Y. and D.C.
Skadden Chicago just let everyone go and is closing up to move to the Pacific Northwest. No specific plans as of yet, but Skadden Chicago has been a good saver and should be okay while it just decompresses and works on learning to enjoy being Skadden Chicago again.
76 - Are you joking or stupid? Its Dewey LeBoeuf
There is still plenty of work available with the ACLU in Texas and Alabama.
I would love to get five months severance. I could use a vacation. I've received five calls already today from recruiters (seems a little more than usual for before 3pm) - I'm sure I could set something else up to start by February latest, so the extra 3 months salary would be like I didn't even lose a bonus. With two months to sit on my ass and go out every night.
Woohoo!
80 - no offense, but you're not that funny. Like, I know you tried there and everything, but that just wasn't funny. Sorry man.
19 you need to grow up.
Sorry about your little red website brother Skadden. Maybe a city like St Louis is a better fit for you or perhaps, Collegetown, USA?
Dear SkaddenDC trolls: SkaddenDC has not started associate reviews yet (some do start tomorrow in lit). At least wait until reviews have occurred to start spreading false rumors.
#12 is correct. Skadden DC has "lost" a number of people. There is no doubt they were not "lost" by choice. They were all in areas hit hard by the economy and not performance based. Some were very recent hires who didn't even have time to screw up anything.
Skadden has also already let go of staff attorneys and support staff.
#12 is correct. Skadden DC has "lost" a number of people. There is no doubt they were not "lost" by choice. They were all in areas hit hard by the economy and not performance based. Some were very recent hires who didn't even have time to screw up anything.
Skadden has also already let go of staff attorneys and support staff.
Hofstra PRIDE, bitch!
2 Boys 1 Mystal
Will this layoff, or others like it at other firms for that matter, have any impact on incoming summers?
32,
check your nalp forms, buddy. 5 firms in atlanta with 500 or more associates? try zero.
32,
check your nalp forms, buddy. 5 firms in atlanta with 500 or more associates? try zero.
Dewey is laying off support staff in structured finance. I heard rumblings that attorneys are next. anyone know?
I work at Skadden. There have not been any layoffs, nor will there be. Anyone who says othewise prb didn't make it out of the first round of on campus interviews.
81, are you stupid....its Dewey & LeBoeuf
If you work in the mail room at Skadden does that mean you work at Skadden?
should i just not even bother applying to skadden dc? i've heard bad things from the commenters here.
-nervous T-10 1L
email job leads to nervoust101l@yahoo.com
A once great partner by the name of Joseph H. Flom, once commented that it is better to avoid naming your conjoined twin as this will avoid you becoming too attached to it. The same principle can apply to Thanksgiving Turkeys.
What about Cahill? How have they not laid anyone off when most of their high yield work is gone?
95: I'm summering at Skadden next year. Is that true for all offices? Do you expect near 100% offer rates for summers?
Too bad Orrick missed picking up Heller Ehrman's money laundering practice. Gunderson is sittin' pretty now.
http://www.evilesq.com
32 - any info on Jones Day Atlanta?
Opus Day Chicago is letting 33.3 associates go along with 1 support staff.
81 - Are you joking or stupid? Orrick tried to merge with Dewey before deciding to just take some partners.
What about Cahill? How have they not laid anyone off when most of their high yield work is gone?
*****
People weren't laid off by video. They were laid off by their partners and office leaders, and after all of them were notified the rest of the firm got a video about it.
*****
Also, the cuts really were economic and not performance-based. That was painfully clear in my office.
*****
12: I don't know what "deep cuts" you are talking about. One person is missing who had a baby last month but the others are here and, for the most part, working hard.
What about Cahill? How have they not laid anyone off when most of their high yield work is gone?
What about Cahill? How have they not laid anyone off when most of their high yield work is gone?
101: If you take a quick look at NALP you will see that we always give nearly 100% offers. From time to time it doesn't work out, but quite frankily even in those cases people get cold offers. The firm really is serious about not letting people go. For juniors, it is easy to assign to another practice, and for mid to senior associates it makes more sense to keep someone who has grown up in the system, then to hire from another law firm. Though I do not know for sure, my guess is that we will rely heavily on our summer classes for the next year or two. One mistake that a lot of fimrs made at the end of the tech boom was to let a lot of corporate associates go. This really came back to hurt the firms three years later when they had to pay a lot of money to hire away lawyers. If you are considering an offer, you really should take it. Firms like Skadden, Cleary, SC and so on will be safe. People who say otherwise don't know. We had a lunch meeting with senior partners several weeks ago, and they made it clear that no one is getting fired. I believe them. If you summer here, you will see it in the culture.
They also let go a woman who gave birth in the copy room and didn't tell anybody. Truly classless.
Does anyone have any views on where SF firms sit on the continuum of best to worst, and what the chances are that all of the top SF firms will eventually fold or merge because of their inability to compete with NYC firms? Anyone?
103 -
If 32 is 63, I'm not sure that 32 is well informed as I know a couple of the firms listed by 63 do not have performance reviews until late winter/early spring. It would seem impossible for the firms to get away with "stealth" layoffs if there are not any recent performance reviews to justify cutting associates.
Can we start talking seriously about a government bailout of our industry to protect our salaries?
111: Thank you for the response. I've accepted my offer to summer with Skadden and I'm very excited.
103 -
If 32 is 63, I'm not sure that 32 is well informed as I know a couple of the firms listed by 63 do not have performance reviews until late winter/early spring. It would seem impossible for the firms to get away with "stealth" layoffs if there are not any recent performance reviews to justify cutting associates.
I should have every right to marry my conjoined twin.
Joseph H Flom
skadden d.c. attorneys,
quick question: what flavor kool aid are you all drinking over there?
skadden d.c. attorneys,
quick question: what flavor kool aid are you all drinking over there?
Great site, great messageboard. Really bringing a lot of good into this world.
Eat it, internet losers. Get a fucking life.
32 is not 63. but, check your sources. some of the firms have started this magical mid-year assessment. a large firm in ATL had magical mid-year assessments throughout the year. basically, when they need to tank someone, they made up this story about them doing mid-year assessments. i wont say more other than i doubt it only happens at this one firm.
Anyone know how the Big 3 in Texas are doing?
Just heard from an Orrick summer. They rescinded his accepted offer. Said they are downsizing the class.
scary sh!t
103 - Jones Day is kicking ass right now across offices. Hiring lateral partners from the weaker firms left and right, and very strong counter-cyclical practices.
117 - are stealth layoffs limited to performance review related layoffs? i thought stealth meant a slow trickle or coverup of layoffs so no one notices.
stop drinking all of the flom and wake up!
Just heard from an Orrick summer. They rescinded his accepted offer. Said they are downsizing the class.
scary sh!t
124 - are you serious? Which office/practice group?
Skadden DC...
If they were letting people go, either by stealth or otherwise you wouldnt need some anon on ATL to get the story out.
Have Skadden DC let staff attorneys go...probably but there would be nothing at of the ordinary there. There are always ebs and flows with Staff Attorneys at any litigation firm that uses them the way that Skadden DC does.
If Skadden DC was shedding jobs that large group of tools would not be keeping their mouths shut.
Corporate Group.
125 - great use of satire!!!
Re: Dewey, they have already laid off attorneys but somehow it never got leaked to ATL.
Does Skadden even have an office in DC? I thought they were just in NY and London.
46 -- I posed the exact same question last week. Didn't get a response. I've found it's best to just ignore the Skadden DC posts -- just like Nervous T10 1L and Frat Stud!
73:
Not sure how you can mention V&E and Locke Lord in the same sentence, but beyond that- why is V&E in trouble? By all outward signs, they seem to be doing well.
What is really going on at Milbank?
If I have sex with my conjoined twin while he is asleep, is it gay rape?
111 - Query to you. I understand that the magical v5 firms will "never fire anyone" blah blah. But what firm tells you that are going to get fired, seriously? You think the firms that laid off people weren't saying "there will not be any layoffs" until the day layoffs were announced? You expect partners at your lunch to say, "Yup, 80 of you will be fired in December, no let's enjoy the tuna sandwhiches and Baked Lays". Seriously. Firms will continue to deny layoffs until they are announced.
Will firms be so heartless as to lay people off in December?
Kasowitz Benson is kicking ass this year.
lol @ 141
did orrick layoff the recent thelen hires?
V&E sucks, they treat their people poorly, engage in phantom layoffs and have learned nothing from their Enron debacle. Ok in Houston, completely sub-par anywhere else and at best a solid tier 2 law firm. Law students should be very careful about accepting any offers there.
105, are you joking or stupid? Orrick didn't take any Dewey partners. The Dewey partners who left didn't go to Orrick. They left because they didn't want to be a part of Orrick.
V&E sucks, they treat their people poorly, engage in phantom layoffs and have learned nothing from their Enron debacle. Ok in Houston, completely sub-par anywhere else and at best a solid tier 2 law firm. Law students should be very careful about accepting any offers there.
V&E sucks, they treat their people poorly, engage in phantom layoffs and have learned nothing from their Enron debacle. Ok in Houston, completely sub-par anywhere else and at best a solid tier 2 law firm. Law students should be very careful about accepting any offers there.
V&E sucks, they treat their people poorly, engage in phantom layoffs and have learned nothing from their Enron debacle. Ok in Houston, completely sub-par anywhere else and at best a solid tier 2 law firm. Law students should be very careful about accepting any offers there.
Is a "phantom layoff" a layoff that doesn't actually happen? I'd much rather be phantom laid-off than real laid-off. In the future, please hit "Post Comment" only once. Patience.
Former Thelen and current Orrick partner Tom Glascock (aka Glass Cock) here, reporting that I do not know whether any of the associates Weitzel brought over were affected by the layoffs, but since Weitzel is known for being a weasel, one can only assume that his people are not being protected.
I call BS on 124/131. Orrick doesn't make practice group-specific offers to its summers. Please provide more info or stop scaring people.
111- Yup, nothing can go wrogn. Just keep telling yourself that. Just like top investment firms will never fold, oh, wait, right...
I feel better about my failure in law school to obtain an offer from a top SF firm like Orrick or Heller. I use to really feel bad about ending up at a lower ranked firm that doesn't quite pay market or huge bonuses. Yet now my firm is stable and doing okay in this down economy. They won't lay anyone off and the office is busy enough for me to hit my hours. It's amazing how messed up the whole Vault 100 rankings are, forcing law students to select firms based on prestige instead of stability. I'm sure even now idiot law students would pick weak SF firms like Bingham and Pilsbury because they are ranked higher even though there's no guarantee those firms will still exist in a year.
NONE of the Orrick layoffs are the recent Thelen or Heller hires.
why are SF firms in particular doing so crappy? and, do we know which offices the orrick layoffs were in?
which offices were the layoffs in?
153, stop the TTT rationalization
is akin looking for a merger or is this Washingtonian article full of it?
124 - Orrick is not rescinding offers to 2009 summer or full time associates. Your information is wrong.
Legal Times reports Orrick D.C. let go one associate and one staff member today.
Legal Times reports Orrick D.C. let go one associate and one staff member today.
We need an update on the situation at Dechert. By all accounts things are quite bad there.
that's what orrick and ralph baxter get for overextending themselves.
baxter was quoted as saying that he wants to bring his firm to the level of cravath.
nice one.
NONE of the Orrick layoffs are the recent Thelen or Heller hires.
Unfortunate situation, but nice severance package.
I hope this tempers some of the kool aid drinking that goes on there. It seems like a decent enough place to work, but come on guys...
While it may be brutal and sad, firms should engage in lay offs now. Clean house as it were so that people in law school with offers would not have to wonder whether they are going to have a job when they graduate.
NYC to 5 months plus 2 weeks severance!
(seriously that is a nice packages---about 100x better than being fired for "performance" and not getting peanuts)
168!
144/6/7/8-
You're the first person I've come across in any recent ATL thread who has had anything bad to say about V&E (and, as an interested party, I've been paying close attention). I would be appreciative if you would provide some details about "phantom lay-offs," "treating people badly," and general "sub-par" qualities.
suck it 168.
Sincerely, 170
suck it 168.
Sincerely, 170
How crappy is it that Skadden is now suing Thelen? It was mentioned in today's Recorder I think.
WE NEED AN UPDATE ON COOLEY! Just kidding, I'm at Cooley and we're doing fine, thank you.
Cooley's doing fine except for no offering their SF corporate summers.......
JMBM in Century City = douchebag factory.
Skadden is better than most in terms of maintaining a long-term view and not letting people go during downturns (although not above opportunistically cleaning house). I worked in the NY and LA offices. However, I'm hearing from colleagues that they are extremely slow corporate --it could be different this time.
"How crappy is it that Skadden is now suing Thelen?"
It's all a big conspiracy to insure that Thelen employees don't ever get accrued vacations. There had been some talk that it could come after everything is squared away in January, but the more and more claims that get piled on, the less of a chance of that happening (it was a small chance anyways).
Any word on how many of these layoffs were in the SF office?
Latham DC is rumored to be letting people go.
Latham DC is rumored to be letting people go.
Mofo still maintains that it's strong, but there are rumors of weak corp in NY & SF, staff layoffs in LA, and stealth layoffs throughout. But, like I said, firm management maintains that everything is fine.
Orrick not only rescinded offers to its summer class, it is using their personal information to withdraw money from their bank accounts. You know this is true, because someone is posting it on the Internet (me).
What Asian offices are affected by Orrick's layoffs? Shanghai? Beijing? Tokyo? Hong Kong? Taipei?
Latham NY and DC are not laying off people folks.
floodgates have been opened. it is in the best interests of firms to do one cut and to do it somewhere in the middle of the cuts. not too soon or they look too weak. not too late or they look foolish for having kept paying for associates to twiddle their thumbs. i think it is digusting how associates have started overbilling desperately and unethically in a ploy to somehow save themselves, started hoarding work turning the law firm environment into an every asshole for himself, ruining camraderie and collegiality, not to mention whatever training and professional development being spread too thin amongst the overabundant herd. if firms are going to be restructuring themselves as lean mean machines, firms need to stay competitive in this new economic climate by doing what all other businesses are doing: develeraging. in order to survive, some will merge, nearly all will cull, and everyone will have to adapt.
to all the posters here, try to remove yourself from the equation, stop pointing fingers looking for someone to blame, and especially stop your endless bitching and look at the situation rationally, objectively, and with your head out of your asses. lawyers are such pussies.
Anyone have the scoop on Duane Morris layoffs?
Also looking for info on Duane Reade layoffs...
Any DLA layoffs to report?
NYC to $190K!
Moore & Van Allen just canned between 20 and 40 attorneys - ranging from associates into the non-equity partner ranks. Live with the banks, die with the banks.
134 - Skadden NYC just closed its doors for good. They have been hurting for some time. They gave everyone till the end of the week to pack up their stuff and get out. But at least they aren't saying it's performance related.
191 here - the part I forgot to say is that at least now I can collect unemployment. It was a low move to shut down right before bonuses though
Can anyone confirm or deny the rumors of stealth layoffs at Latham?
confirm
Which offices? Just DC?
DC. Don't know about others. Multiple partners also suddenly "advising" mid-levels that it would be a good idea to leave and get a few years of government experience.
Latham corp is very slow. Many (most?) NYC associates are going to bill between 1200-1600 this year. Next year is supposed to be as bad or worse. Haven't noticed stealth layoffs yet, but I just don't see how they can keep us all.
Paul Hastings just had a miscarriage. Everyone is leaving because they feel uncomfortable.
F*ck. What about Latham's west coast offices?
From DC I've heard that SF is really slow, but I don't have any firsthand knowledge.
How are things at MoFo? Is Orrick going to dissolve?
How are things at MoFo? Is Orrick going to dissolve?
WC Latham offices are down heavy. Latham will be laying people off. Whether they do it in a transparent manner, al la their talking points, remain to be seen. Latham attorneys WILL be laid off. Time to get the resume squared away.
I suspect DC will layoff, but NYC and Cali associates are going to take it in the rear.
People should be laid off if there's only enough work for what amounts to 35 hour workweeks for $200K+ a year. That's an absurd job, and it's probably being generous; someone who is that down on hours is probably billing anything that's remotely related to "work" so his worked/billable ratio is going to be lower than normal as well.
So yeah, if you haven't figured it out yet...this is going to be very bad.
Check out Latham's website. They have 71 attorneys listed in the "Structured Finance and Securitization" practice group, 53 in "Derivatives," 291 in "Private Equity, " and 107 in "Real Estate." They have 8 listed in the "Restructuring and Workouts" group and 81 in "Insolvency." Granted there is likely some overlap in there, but this can't bode well for them.
Stealth layoffs at Latham LA. Two to three people a few weeks ago from the 07 class. That was just the beginning.
I am very familiar with both MoFo and Orrick. Neither are going to dissolve.
They are by far the strongest SF full practice firms. Both have very strong stables of equity partners who are sticking together through this. Cultural and interpersonal problems at the equity partnership level can be death in this environment. Neither firm is experiencing these issues. MoFo is quietly shedding some associates, as it must, and Orrick obviously just de-levereaged its structured finance practice in one fell swoop, which is sad but absolutely necessary, as that practice is gone. But the equity partners are staying put, which is the key.
Non-productive partners in both firms will be under extreme pressure over the next 6 months, but none of that will be visible to the outside world. The core equity partnerships at both places are rock solid. In three years, when we all start moving forward again, they will remain the two premier SF general practice firms.
208 -- I work at Orrick (still) -- but the time we start moving forward again, MoFo and Orrick may be the only two general practice firms left in SF -- period.
I got laid off from Proskauer in NYC.
What about OMM?
Orrick DC is the worst of all Orrick offices . . . management is craven and greedy.
Is Orrick going to close tits (badly acquired and lose-making) international network, as did W&C?
212, can you elaborate?
orrick's management said the layoffs now were not to boost PPP for 2008 because of the high cost of giving severance packages at this point in the year. more firms will layoff soon after the new year since the severance package costs can be absorbed as part of 2009. and everyone is going to look weaker in 2009 so no one cares.
orrick's management said the layoffs now were not to boost PPP for 2008 because of the high cost of giving severance packages at this point in the year. more firms will layoff soon after the new year since the severance package costs can be absorbed as part of 2009. and everyone is going to look weaker in 2009 so no one cares.
205 - I'd be inclined to agree with you except that at my firm, someone making $200k is billing out at more than $600/hour. Even billing only 35 hours a week, that's around $1.1mm/year. If I own the company that person works at, I made $900k off him (I know there are expenses beyond salary, but not $900k dollars worth). That doesn't look so absurd. But of course, there aren't 35 billable hours a week for everyone, so some people have to go. Just not that guy.
210, can you elaborate?
orrick is so TTT
217, you bill out first year associates at $600/hour? Because they cost at least $200K, even if they aren't receiving a bonus this year (because the firm can't/won't pay bonuses for this level of work). You have salary, but you also have all the benefits, 401(k) match, Seemless Web, his share of the rent, etc.
220, you're either not a lawyer or you're just a dope. I'm talking $200k in salary, so that's a fourth year associate. I also said there are additional expenses, just not $900k worth. Seamless Web doesn't cost the firms anything. Meals get billed to the clients. And even if firms did pay for something, do you really think a Seamless Web account costs $200k? No law firm matches 401k payments for attorneys.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122663367900227559.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us_business
says half the lay offs are outside the U.S.
MoFo will be running all of SF pretty soon. Their heavy involvement with IP (prosecution and litigation) will get them through a recession, and in pretty good shape.
MoFo will be running all of SF pretty soon. Their heavy involvement with IP (prosecution and litigation) will get them through a recession, and in pretty good shape.
To 159 - ok you may be technically correct in regards to what 124 has said. However, Orrick has contacted summer 09 offerees, strongly urging them to look elsewhere, i.e. cold offer.
I am still hearing Baxter saying in November:
"Do you anticipate any more layoffs?
This is the end, as far as we can see."
And then, Orrick just laid off 7 people in its Beijing office this week.
Skadden recently laid off staff workers inlcuding legal assisants, staff attorneys, and secretaries. You all may recall that Skadden also set the industry standard for the highest bonus this past December while our economy was in turmoil. Now many of us are losing sleep and jobless just so that the partners and associates can add those bonus dollars to their already inflated bank accounts. Corporate greed at its best! Another AIG..