How many times does this blog have to plug Axiom? I'm starting to think this is paid advertising.

my Fed Govt job security is making me oh so Firsty!

first to say first and not be first....and hopefully LAST

Professional responsibility rules state that non-lawyers cannot profit off fees earned by lawyers.

Are Axiom's venture capital investors all lawyers?
Will they be making a lawyer-only IPO?

Inside The Law blog = Sofa King We Todd Did

High end temp agencies? Boooooring.

More WGWAG!

It sounds to me like someone finally gets it.

I'm sure there will be tons of haters posting soon.

It is temping hell. No paid vacations. No sick days. No upside.

is their website not working for anyone else?
I just get a blank white screen.

Yep, it's started... check out #10.

- 9

The real question is, are they any less douchebaggy at Axiom?

The comments on ATL suck. What happened to good posters like Loyola 2L and prestigious commenters?

No GC ever got fired for hiring Axiom (just like no CEO ever for fired for hiring IBM or McKinsey!).

15, are you American? Can you speak/type in english? If not, go away.

It's actually supposedly really hard to get a job at Axiom. They generally only look at top 14 grads who have worked at least 5 plus years at a respectable large law firm.

Will axiom match Skadden or Cravath?

Ensuring steady workflow to its attorneys is Axiom's biggest issue. it's ok if you just want extra money, cause the money is good, and is way way better than temping, but if you got to pay the mortgage every month then waiting by your computer for your Axiom contact to email you is not going to work.

Do normal temping jobs pay high 100s to mid 200s?

If they REALLY pay that much consistently, and REALLY work 40 hrs a week, this might not be the worst gig out there.

-NY V25 Associate

I thought Axiom was a deodorant? They provide legal services too?

The FT article from 2007 says that their total revenue "last year" (presumably 2006) was $31MM, on "nearly 200 lawyers." $31MM/200 lawyers = $155k revenue per lawyer. Considering that they have to take profit and overhead out of that, that doesn't leave much money to compensate those lawyers. I know some people there claiming that they earn an "annualized "salary" of close to $200k. I think that this means that they get no benefits, and get annualized pay or $150k, but only work about 3/4 of the time. It's not a terrible option for those who are better than temp work or who have burned out from big firm work, but getting paid maybe $100k with no benefits for working 2/3 to 3/4 of the year doesn't sound that great to me.

Why not just start a 99 cent store legal shop?

How can a legal services firm that is owned in whole or in part by nonlawyers (i.e. public stockholders) not engage in the unauthorized practice of law?

My understanding is that not all Axiom attorneys work 12 months. They make do a 4 month assignment then go on vacation for 3 months then come back and work 5 months. So annualized they might make 200k but in actuality they're making pro rata whatever it is for the moths they worked.

And I think Axiom provides health benefits now. When they started they didn't.

And I believe the Fortune article said they claim to have $60 million in revenue now so if they have 215 attorneys that works out to 280k/lawyer in revenue.

And I'm sure they are losing money if they are VC backed. They all do...

Business is a joke. I know an axiom attorney who IS paid well on an annualized basis, BUT all vacation days are NOT PAID. So if you're sick, you lose one day full pay. And one day is a lot when you're making "in the high 100k's, low 200k's". Also, Axiom makes off real well. They receive DOUBLE the wage that they pay the attorney - basically sit there and collect fees. The fact that this help is cheaper than outside law firms speaks volumes about how overpriced big new york firms are.

Has anyone ever met an Axiom attorney? I'm sort of curious what the lifestyle is like. Work for a few months, then take a vacation for a month or two? That sounds decent.

If Axiom attorneys don't actually go to the office, then does that mean that the attorneys can live anywhere in the country, or do they all live in the cities where Axiom has office? If you could live anywhere, then this would seem particularly compelling if you lived in a low cost area.

uh, i think the business model is that they have no overhead (i.e., building, staff, coffee machines, computers). since ur all sent out to clients, they can charge less per hr.

as a biz model it makes sense. but like other commenters, i'm unsure this corporation arrangement doesn't violate ethical rules, unless the attys are really just doing temp-level work (i.e., doc review).

uh, i think the business model is that they have no overhead (i.e., building, staff, coffee machines, computers). since ur all sent out to clients, they can charge less per hr.

as a biz model it makes sense. but like other commenters, i'm unsure this corporation arrangement doesn't violate ethical rules, unless the attys are really just doing temp-level work (i.e., doc review).

The i in axiom is upside down. That might be the problem. That, or they are all racists.

So you want to take a week vacation with your family during the year? You're not only paying for the trip, but also the lost wages as well! That's a pricey vacation! The price of teh trip plus 2% of your salary. Ouch!

So you want to take a week vacation with your family during the year? You're not only paying for the trip, but also the lost wages as well! That's a pricey vacation! The price of teh trip plus 2% of your salary. Ouch!

Even if it is good money in the short term can you have sustainable long term success doing this? I would proceed very very hesitantly before thinking of moving into temp work.

And god forbid you get sick. That could really hurt! But axiom doesn't make the deal clear going in. Very sketchy "firm".

Are they a "law firm" or a "temp agency"? Sounds like just another contract attorney shop to me.

Go to Axiom if you want to end your career.

They are more slippery than Bill Clinton in his prime.

They are more slippery than Bill Clinton in his prime.

30/31, I've even heard that some companies actually pay their employees only for the days worked, which means that they don't pay for Saturdays and Sundays. So you want to take a weekend vacation with your family during the year? You're not only paying for the trip, but also the lost wages as well! That's a pricey vacation! The price of the trip plus 28% of your salary if you do it every weekend. Ouch!

Fortunately, we in law firms don't believe in something so silly. It's not as if when employers give paid vacation time, they adjust the rest of the salary scale to compensate.

I imagine the type of routine, cut and paste work they get must be incredibly boring. What do you do after working there for years?

These comments show that you are out of touch with the non-biglaw world. For the vast majority of attorneys, it is not a bad option, not ideal, but the issue is lack of control and lack of prestige, not lack of paid vacation. But I know that everyone here will be partner within 7 years.

38, I understand 31 - most "law firms" as axiom is trying to be have paid vacation. If I'm at a prototypical large new york firm and I take a week off from work, the cost of the trip is only the price of it. If I'm an axiom attorney, that week trip costs the price of the trip, plus 5 days of lost wages (5/260 - or roughly 2% of your salary)! And that's just for a one week trip. Imagine if you take a couple of weeks of from work during the year (as most do)!

39, have more babies.

38, I understand 31 - most "law firms" as axiom is trying to be have paid vacation. If I'm at a prototypical large new york firm and I take a week off from work, the cost of the trip is only the price of it. If I'm an axiom attorney, that week trip costs the price of the trip, plus 5 days of lost wages (5/260 - or roughly 2% of your salary)! And that's just for a one week trip. Imagine if you take a couple of weeks of from work during the year (as most do)!

Guys in my high school used Axiom deodorant all the time, it was no big deal.

41, teachers normally are paid for nine months of work, and have three months of unpaid summer vacation. Most can choose to be paid over twelve months, so they have three months of "paid" summer vacation. Guess whether their total compensation actually goes up when they have so-called "paid" summer vacation.

If Axiom "paid" for your vacation time, they would simply give you a lower hourly wage for your working time.
It's amazing that lawyers think employers somehow have access to pools of free money that it can just give away to employees. Why don't we set a minimum lawyer wage of $500k/year? Everyone will win!

Haha, 41, Axiom can't compare themselves to a law firm when considering lifestyle, hours, and type of work (which is beneficial to them), then go ahead and compare its salary structure to that of teaching professionals! Ridiculous!

Comment 46, I think you were referencing the comment in 45, not 41. You're correct though.

I worked for Axiom for six months. I was seconded (look it up) to a bulge bracket investment bank. The work was a lot of fun, actually (though probably not representative of the typical Axiom assignment). They do provide medical benefits but (a) they are more expensive than at a big firm and (b) they don't kick in for a while.

One time I did accidentally receive Axiom's bill to the company and saw that Axiom was charging double my day rate to the company (this to provide very little back-end support; e.g., I used the company's email and worked at company's building every day, not Axiom's).

If the rule of thumb goes that a biglaw firm spends 2-3x your salary on rent, benefits, binder clips, etc., then Axiom really is making out like a bandit since it pays almost nothing for those. Hell, its biggest expense is probably marketing.

Axiom = TTT

45, what really pisses people off is that they are lead to believe Axiom is not contract work (even though it is) and that your base includes other typical law firm benefits (since they sell themselves a s a law firm)- paid vacation, insurance, sick days, etc. Suck it, Axiom!

50, What do you mean? That people interview and start working for them without knowing what the benefits are?

As I recall, in the movie WALL-E, the Axiom was the spaceship where all the humans went to live when the Earth became too polluted to sustain life. This Axiom, I suppose, is where all the fired, laid-off, and passed over for partnership BigLaw associates go to live out their busted careers.

41 - there is no such thing as geniune vacation at a big firm, you idiot.

Just do the math - let's say you work at a laid back Texas firm instead of an NYC ball-busting-factory. Maybe you have to bill 2,100 hours a year to be in good standing. That means 52 consecutive weeks of 40-hour billings (40.38 to be exact). Let's assume also that you are mega-efficient (or that your clients don't read their bills too closely) and you can squeeze 8 billable hours out of 9 working hours. So, you can hit your billable target by working 9 hour days Monday through Friday so long as you never take a single holiday, vacation, or sick day. Alternatively, you can take holidays, vacations, and sick days so long as you pay the firm back by working extra hours on nights and weekends.

So basically, you are expected to work 9 hour days with no vacations or holidays ever, unless you can find a way to make up those lost hours. At a firm, a vacation or holiday (or sickday for that matter) is just an advance on your nights and weekends.

The comments about paying twice for a vacation while working for Axiom are stupid. If you work January 1 to June 30, earn $100k for those six months, and then take the next 6 months off, then you have earned $100k/year for a job that effectively includes 6 months of vacation. I have no idea if that is a realistic number for an average Axiom attorney, but you're not paying $100k plus your vacation expenses to take 6 months of vacation -- you are simply working at an effective salary if $100k a year. That's the choice Axiom theoretically offers (I say theoretically because this only works if you have a reliable stream of work coming your way).

In BigLaw, by contrast, you get 3-4 weeks of theoretical vacation which, if you have the time and/or hours to take it at all, is usually scuttled by your having to be on the phone or hammering on the laptop during most of your "vacation", thereby pissing off your SO/friends, increasing your stress level (instead of decreasing it) shortening your life and taking several steps close to divorce, alcoholism and obesity.

53 hit the nail ont he head. Vacation is an illusion at a law firm.

Compare his figures with my government job. I work 8:30 till 5 sharp every day. I get 10 holidays a year, and 4 weeks of vaction. I can take all that time without having to change my work schedule by a single hour when I get back. In-house folks have a similar deal.

Firm lawyers are basically hourly employees paid in advance. Axiom is no different expect that it doesn't pay in advance.

Axiom actually is not doing well. They have laid off 20% of their headquarters staff and are cutting costs everywhere. They may be hiring lawyers left and right, but there is no work from the clients' side that's trickling in. Therefore there are plenty of lawyers who are waiting around for work that will never be seen- at least not until this awful economy picks up.

Axiom actually is not doing well. They have laid off 20% of their headquarters staff and are cutting costs everywhere. They may be hiring lawyers left and right, but there is no work from the clients' side that's trickling in. Therefore there are plenty of lawyers who are waiting around for work that will never be seen- at least not until this awful economy picks up.

53 and 54= Axiom staff

Axiom actually is not doing well. They have laid off 20% of their headquarters staff and are cutting costs everywhere. They may be hiring lawyers left and right, but there is no work from the clients' side that's trickling in. Therefore there are plenty of lawyers who are waiting around for work that will never be seen- at least not until this awful economy picks up.

55, I think its a little more complicated than that. It's only because the billable expectations are so high that firm lawyers don't have real vacations. If you only had to bill 1700 hours a year, you could knock that out in 48 weeks at 7 billables a day. That would leave 4 weeks for vacation and you'd never have to work a weekend or late night. But at 2100, all your regular business hour days are full accounted for, PLUS all government holidays. So in order to take a vacation, you have to make up that time by working during what one would traditionally consider to be leisure time.

Its not the billable hour that it the problem per se, its the number of billable hours that firms expect that make vacation a fiction.

48 - how did the bulge bracket employees (legal and banking) treat you (not a loaded question, just curious)?

Axiom is not doing well, as one poster said. Axiom knows that they only have an upside and that the people joining it may have an upside or a downside. what i mean is that axiom makes money when you do but doesnt lose money when you dont. it is in their best interest to hire as many people as possible in order to increase their profits. I am not sure how great of a place it is to work when I take on all the risk and get less than half of the upside.

Expansion does not equal success, it equals desparation.

I demand definitions for the following terms: PEANUTS, CHEESE, and PRETZELS.

63 - consult Google, you lazy jackass.

61: They didn't know the difference. For all intents and purposes, I was a regular employee. Again, though, this wasn't a standard Axiom assignment. I was functioning as much on the business side as I was on the legal side (more on the business side, actually).

Who are the best looking women at the contract attorney agencies?

I used to work for axiom. The people working there are a like groupies at a cult. They send out these ridiculous press releases that are embarrassing and incorrect about you to your law school magazine. The work is low paying, and definitely not worth it. Don't do it unless you have no other options.

axiom = legal zoom

It's true that Axiom is not doing well at all. They let go 20% of internal staff because they expanded too fast and it was non sustainable. Lots of unhappy former groupies who are feeling anything but the axiom love.

I am not quite sure what the big debate is here. Axiom essentially is a high end, temporary placement company. They do offer a benefit package and paid holidays off, and unless you're a complete blinking idiot, you'd know not to expect paid sick time or vacation time in this type situation.

A lot of you Big Law lawyers are now unemployed or will be very shortly, and given that statistically the vast majority of you will be unable to secure another Big Law job again, you will be relegated to temping. Your options will be a traditional temporary attorney company and there you will command anywhere from 32.00 to 40.00 an hour without overtime, benefits, sick time, vacation time or paid holidays off. Too, the caliber of attorney you will be forced to work with will leave a lot to be desired.

The other option is Axiom. I'll bet a lot of you who've been laid off think if all else fails, then you could probably breeze into Axiom. Think again, unlike a traditional temporary attorney placement company, Axiom is highly selective and will put you through your paces in terms of the Axiom selection process. Don't assume because you've worked for a top 10 firm that Axiom, without question, place you. It doesn't work that way at all. Good Luck...

I am not quite sure what the big debate is here. Axiom essentially is a high end, temporary placement company. They do offer a benefit package and paid holidays off, and unless you're a complete blinking idiot, you'd know not to expect paid sick time or vacation time in this type situation.

A lot of you Big Law lawyers are now unemployed or will be very shortly, and given that statistically the vast majority of you will be unable to secure another Big Law job again, you will be relegated to temping. Your options will be a traditional temporary attorney company and there you will command anywhere from 32.00 to 40.00 an hour without overtime, benefits, sick time, vacation time or paid holidays off. Too, the caliber of attorney you will be forced to work with will leave a lot to be desired.

The other option is Axiom. I'll bet a lot of you who've been laid off think if all else fails, then you could probably breeze into Axiom. Think again, unlike a traditional temporary attorney placement company, Axiom is highly selective and will put you through your paces in terms of the Axiom selection process. Don't assume because you've worked for a top 10 firm that Axiom, without question, place you. It doesn't work that way at all. Good Luck...

70, 71 = Axiom groupie employee

Axiom = TTT

I actually worked through Axiom and liked it a whole lot, but the real huge negative with Axiom (and to dispel the notion that dickhead #72 put forth labeling me a groupie...) is that they are not a reliable source of income...I would not hold my breath for another project through them because they just do not have the volume of work as they're not a placement firm that engages in the traditional attorney temporary placement work, i.e., discovery. In that respect, Axiom does fall very short & cannot be relied on to sustain oneself for the long term.

I actually worked through Axiom and liked it a whole lot, but the real huge negative with Axiom (and to dispel the notion that dickhead #72 put forth labeling me a groupie...) is that they are not a reliable source of income...I would not hold my breath for another project through them because they just do not have the volume of work as they're not a placement firm that engages in the traditional attorney temporary placement work, i.e., discovery. In that respect, Axiom does fall very short & cannot be relied on to sustain oneself for the long term.

It's a decent enough gig if the only other option you have is starving or staring at the walls, waiting for a call from the hiring partner or recruiting coordinator of any of the last 300 firms you sent resumes to. I don't mean that to sound snippy or sarcastic - Axiom is what it is. As others have noted, if you can get an assignment from them it beats document review. Just don't count on Axiom to provide you with a career. They just don't have the client base.

I'm an Axiom attorney and I don't understand all this fuss. After taking my 20 vacation days, I gross about $195K, which is the high-end for most in-house jobs. I leave work everday at 5:30. Take it or leave it. I think Axiom rocks.

As a former Axiom attorney I can attest that going to Axiom is a critical mistake unless you are certain the Axiom job will be your last job. If you ever leave the "firm " ( can a corporation practice law???) you will have a huge hole on your resume as you will not have either law firm or in-house continuity; without a job with "full time" status all you will be able to do in the future is additional temp work for another temp placement firm.