yep, Harard. very prestigious.

Actually, "listserv" is common usage.

"Harard Law School"

YES, my eighth "first" this month. Finally....

- Blah blah, 1

I love Lost, but the Jin reference made little sense, was a complete non sequitur, and was not funny or interesting. I have had to bite my tongue many times in the past, but Elie's "voice" is really terrible. It's way too often that I feel embarrassed for him.

WTF is this thread?

Are you kidding me? This is a personal attack on a student, a student who can easily be identified by his class mates.

I don't care what his "crime" is in your eyes, this is a terrible thing to post, and you have definitely crossed over the line.

At least this kid got in HLS. This would be absolutely impossible for a GULC.

I'm not saying this guy isn't a douche, because he prolly is. But... my guess is that his TTT classmates are bit jealous much.

haha raises hand backwards. also, funny title.

He'll fit right in at Cambridge just like Elie fits right in to a Coach Class airline seat: with sweat, schimmying, and lots of Crisco.

Roger Lou, is that you?

This is the worst thread ever. Way to bash someone who just wants to stop receiving emails from a listserv.

5= EPIC FAIL

14 -- how so?

- blah blah, 1

Douchebags going to douche-tastic law schools.....

come on MysTTTal, at least post some stories of EPIC fail when you want to bash someone

Why would one get on the listserv initially?

I love this thread. Bash away.

5/14

You were fifth you mouthbreather

MysTTTal, you couldn't even get hired by Skadden DC, and they hire anyone who can wipe their own ass.

19 --

I was first. For the eighth time this month. And you are damn jealous. And that's fine.

- 1/5/15

Wait. This whole time we've been referring to Mystal's time at "HLS" it didn't stand for Howard Law School?

but seriously- this guy will fit right in...

There HAVE to be better things to talk about then some snot who transferred to Harvard.

It's amazing Harvard takes jerks like this - I am T20, top 5% and got the boot from Harvard and actually a nice person. such is life.

should be "fewer bridges"

26 - should be "fuck you"

PLEASE provide more stories about this tool....

Does anyone want to buy some Nationals tickets? I've got two. They're for tonight.

THREAD REMOVED BY MODERATOR.

(please Lat?)

I agree with 7. This post is extremely rude and unnecessary. His e-mail was completely reasonable and not douchey in the least, and I applaud him for being able to transfer to such a great law school.

Oh, well. I have to return to outlining now, because of the economy.

What does TTT stand for?

I agree with 24.

"He raises his hand backwards."

I love that. We need more people like this at my school.

32: TTT = "third tier toilet."

Stands for American University Washington College of Law

Actually, "listserv" is the proper spelling; listserv is a registered trademark for the first electronic mailing list software application (which has hereafter become genericized for any mailing list application); listserve is a "corrected" corruption.

Why should anyone care what WCL students think of the guy? If his Harvard colleagues thought the guy was a douche or not HLS material, I can see why this would be relevant, but in this case it seems like the tipsters are animated only by jealousy. Thankfully for the student in question, he won't have to interact with these people anymore.

Great post, stories like these that will never make WSJ Law Blog are exactly the reason I check ATL everyday. I can't fathom how 7 could get so worked up, unless of course he is the douche in question, which is likely.

Comment removed by moderator.

What job?

31, how is it reasonable to email the entire law school to ask how to be removed from the listserv? He didn't just email the IT department like a normal person.

You're ok, Elie. Hang in there.

32: it stands for "35"

So... to sum up, you somehow got a hold of an email, that this guy sent to a listserv (asking to be removed), and some "tipsters" verify to you that he is an ass for sending the email?

"He raises his hand backwards."

I think the fact that this was reported says more about WCL than about the guy. No wonder he wanted to transfer to a more elite school!

Think he would have written Doug's Online Correspondence Course Law School in the email if that's where he had transferred to? What this really boils down to is pure, unadulterated dbaggery.

keep your head up elie. the same people who are nasty to you are the same people who say that anything beyond TXX is inferior, people not at Vault XX firms are unworthy, and in general are people to feel sorry for that all they have in life (and can cling on) are their "superior credentials"...which the economy is showing means squat.

Just keep posting more and more often, breaks up the drudgery and monotony of work...

I think the underlying thought behind all this schadenfreude is that the guy wasn't smart enough to get himself removed from the listserv. Instead, he decided to email the entire school and advertised his ignorance.

Yep, Harvard material. Not.

Not to mention how fat your are.

EVERYONE who goes to Harvard brags about it. What's the fucking point of going there if you're not going to brag about it?

7 - Bend over bitch. This was a great post.

Let's go to ah Haavad baah and fuck up some smaat kids!!!!

Aight then Morgan!

Let's go to ah Haavad baah and fuck up some smaat kids!!!!

Aight then Morgan!

Harvard is true TTT.

40 NAILED IT!

Elie, you're pretty awful for personally attacking this guy. What a sucky, mean post.

Oh dear lord--you've posted another photograph of a blonde child! How dare you, you monsters! Remove it immediately!

Nah, you're fine Mystal. Attorneys are just generally poor at social graces, and finding happiness.

For what it's worth, I went to Yale. Once. I passed it driving through New Haven.

Elie's presence in the comments section is creepy. In an I-wouldn't-allow-him-to-be-alone-with-my-children sort of way.

"Anyone who brags about Harvard, or even casually mentions having gone to Harvard is a tremendous douchebag."

That's true, Elie. You bring it up just about every day, and that you are a douche is indeed beyond question. Logic is therefore quite sound.

Not to mention how fat your are.

Why is it so terrible that he mentioned where he transferred to? Honestly, some people just try to find excuses to get offended...

61, he's watching you. Right now.

This guy must be a complete boner. End of story.

first of all, F all you Harvard haters. Every law school has people like this (see: WCL, natch) and most HLS students AREN'T like this.

Why in the hell is this newsworthy in the first place?

This website fucking sucks.

It's such a sad reflection on the legal profession that its current (and future) members feel the need to express their insecurity by continually posting anonymous comments on a message board about typos and someone's weight. Probably these people were bullied as kids and now feel that their position as a biglaw lawyer who went to a fancy law school makes them the all-powerful bully. Sorry, folks, but get some counseling to deal with your issues, and stop taking out your lack of self-respect on Elie.

Agree with #7

unremarkable story +
personal attack on an identifiable individual +
regular assortment of dumb atl comments=

rock bottom for atl

If one more person asks what TTT means ....

I love that Elie is calling all you out in the comments section. I love it.

Elie, have another glass of wine for you are man of international renown and a gentleman of impeccable breeding and I for one wish you the happiest of holidays.

There is actually another student, who transferred to HLS from a DC-area school in a previous year, who exhibits overwhelmingly douchebag qualities during class. Maybe the transfers are self-selecting.
I'm just saying.

I think Elie finally lost it. I dig it. Happy holidays big guy.

64: Neither. My primary concern is that you would impact my children's lives in a more base, but less violent, way. For example, you might give them career advice, the prospect of which causes me frequent night terrors.

73 takes back the nice comment... wishes Elie a bad holiday

#53 and #54 said it right!

TTT ?

Elie, "listserv" is the correct term, not "listserve". For someone else trying to make fun of someone else's spelling, this is absolutely pathetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISTSERV

Can we do one of those stupid polls about worst thread ever? Because I am pretty sure this one is up there.

1) About Harvard. Get over it.
2) About a law school student who can easily be identified = dumb idea.
3) About a transfer student who is a tool = completely not newsworthy.
4) See all comments above.

I liked the post. People who raise their hands backwards deserve to be mocked.

Unrelated, is the Elie Mystal commenter really Ellie Mystal? If so, he is funnier than I thought. If not, at least give Elie credit for not blocking the impersonator.

"Fewer Bridges" God Elie, it's just not that hard.

BOOOOOOOOOOO on removing fake Mystal. The fake Mystal posts were the best part of the thread. And now the numeric call-outs don't make any sense.

Consider: if he WEREN'T a douche, he would have simply written "I transferred." The whole "Harvard" part is superfluous. Compound that with the fact that he purposefully did it to EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE SCHOOL.

Superfluous "Harvarding" = douche.

Superfluous "Harvarding" to entire email listserv = mega douche and possibly blog-worthy, on a slow day.

What gives you the right to go after an innocent student? This isn't "news." Just like the wedding announcements by that hideous bitch Laurie Linn, these posts do nothing but attack non-public people. Get a life and do some real job. I mean honestly how embarrassing for you is it to work for a blog? You contribute nothing because this isn't even news.

79 (or whatever your number is since Elie removed the other posts) -- Can we now NOT give Elie credit? Oh good. Because whether or not the impostor's posts were allowed to stay, Elie still was the one who chose to write and publish this awful article on the web.

Appropriate Response by this douche: Email IT

In lieu of the appropriate response, appropriate e-mail: Why am I still on this list? I transferred to another school this semester.

In lieu of appropriate response or appropriate e-mail, this assclown is simply getting the response he basically asked for. Is it newsworthy? Probably not. But I always enjoy a little bashing of someone who is pretty much begging for it.

Easy solution for not getting made fun of or outed on ATL? Be Barry Sanders. Act like you've been there.

I'm with 82.

There's a right way and a wrong way to do things, and this guy purposely chose to do it the wrong way.

Don't want to get made fun of and outed on ATL???

ACT LIKE YOU'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE!

82 = douche.

Actually, "Harvard" is the proper spelling; Harvard is a registered trademark of one of the top law schools in the United States (which has hereafter become genericized for any school aspiring to such greatness--Harvard of the South = Vanderbilt, Harvard of the West = Pepperdine, etc.); Haavaad is a "corrected" corruption.

Flavor Flav

86 found the caps lock button.

62 -

I'll tell you exactly why it's so terrible. Everytime a Harvard person talks about their educational experience they reference the fact that they went to Harvard. Whereas I (graduate of a less-prestigious Ivy League institution -- and I only include this to prevent people from saying that I went to some shitty school and wouldn't want to advertise it in conversation) might say, "My college professor once said..." the Harvard grad says, "My Harvard professor once said..." See the difference?

It's maddening. "My friends from Harvard..." "When I was at Harvard..." "My girlfriend from Harvard..." I promise you, start listening for it and you'll hear what I'm talking about. I guarantee you that someone who transferred to Stanford would have said "I transferred schools, can you take me off this listserv" like a normal human being. Even Ted Sorenson does this in the preface to his Kennedy biography. It's a Cambridge epidemic I tell you.

The only exception to this is a girl at my firm who is a HLS grad and one of the cooler, more down-to-earth people I know.

"His e-mail was completely reasonable and not douchey in the least"

Oh yeah, sure. 46 already nailed it, hardcore.

I remember 7 or 8 months ago when people got upset about personal attacks on a law student in made in a few of the comments. Now don't get me wrong, when law students do something outrageously stupid they deserve bad press like any other adult. But I think its pretty clear that law schools are unrepresentative in their douchebag:non-douche ratio. This is a poor attempt to squeeze in a useless post and leave work a few minutes early.

Fire Elie.

+1 93, well said. Mysttal, you suck. So this guy is a douche (like 85% of law students), is this really newsworthy? You haven't done one post on severance packages, but your fat ass can find the time to out a douchey 2L? Enjoy spending the holidays with a custard IV in your arm (if the med tech can find a vein on your fat ass) and a turkey leg in your mouth. Fire Elie.

Help me David Lat, you're my only hope

Lat published stories like this all the time. But everyone gets on Elie's case when he posts them.

This story is hilarious. I agree with 39:

"Great post, stories like these that will never make WSJ Law Blog are exactly the reason I check ATL everyday."

Don't worry, he'll be hated by his classmates at Harvard too. We might be nice to his face, but if he acts like that he'll be the subject of great mockery behind his back.

-- HLS 2L

90 hit the nail on the head. Harvard people are notorious for this type of behavior and no, normal people wouldn't name drop like they do.

I was in a vaguely similar situation (but with turning down a journal offer from my old school that came after my transfer acceptance). As a (hopefully) normal person, I just told them something to the degree of "my plans have changed and I won't be returning to [old law school]." There was simply no need to flout the name of the better school where I was transferring.

Frankly, it's rude and within reason, the top people at a lower ranked law school are comparable / better than the bottom people at a higher ranked law school. It's important not to forget every T14 school (even YHS) has some dead weight and merely being at one of them doesn't automatically make you better.

*farts*

*shits*

aww yeah

Er, not 90, but 91.

Harvard is the Duke of the North.

What a useless post. Elie, you are a waste of human life.

What's the news here?

Transfer students suck, but everyone already knew that.

What makes it all the better is that this student had virtually no options in fall OCI after transferring and ended up at a firm that even someone with mediocre grades from WCL could have gotten.

WCL 3L (headed to V15 firm)

Which just goes to show that personality does make a difference in OCI still.

he used a comma to offset a dependent clause. fail

he used a comma to offset a dependent clause. fail

102 -- transfers more or less smooth out admissions mistakes. How is that a bad thing? You can ask the dean, registrar, etc. at any law school -- on average, the transfers will have a higher average GPA (even taking into account all the 1L curve stuff) than the rest of the student body.

Why? Because it's very difficult to be a transfer slacker. If you transferred, you had to bust your ass at your lower ranked law school, finish in the top 10%-20%, go through another set of admissions applications / essays, remake friends at your new school, etc. It's not a path for the lazy or unmotivated. This is in contrast to regular admissions where all you need is a grade-inflated liberal arts major GPA (anything ending in the word "studies") and a good test-prep course aided 3 hours taking the LSAT and you're in anywhere but YHS (and maybe even H).

If you're arguing that some transfers are jerks, sure I'll completely agree with you there. But, that's true of law students in general. From what I've seen, most transfer seem to really appreciate where they finally landed, just because they've been in a much worse situation before.

I went to WCL and I'm going to a V50 firm. Its not a bad place. People need to stop breaking out the rulers and measuring every time education comes up. That's the exact problem with what the student wrote. Act like you've been there, have some class, and learn that networking is an important part of the job. Pissing off 200 people who will also be going into the legal profession isn't a great way to go into your 2L year, even if it is at Harvard.

It is amazing to see so many idiots on this message board defending this asshole. Elie, good post, but obviously underappreciated by an audience that posts comments that are just as, if not more, offensive than this bitchy transfer student's. And 94, I'm sure you were well within that 85% category. Fucking jackass.

Agree with 7

what a douchebag. this kid shoulda just emailed someone in the registrar's office. what an ass. he'll fit right in with all the other snots at HLS.

110 = transfer student douchebag.

Comment removed by moderator.

lol at the people defending this loser. could it be that a lot of other douches are soiling their knickers at the thought that people call douches out behind their backs?

fyi: yes, we have noticed you're a douche. and we do talk about it.

112 = couldn't make the cut, bitter?

i'm not sure this article should have been posted ...

First of all, I know this guy--he's a prick. He doesn't fit in in Cambridge either. He crashed a party at my apartment once, stole 4 beers and then left. He's a royal bag of douche.

WCL student here. This guy is an epic douche and deserves to be called out for his behavior. Glad he transferred to HLS and hope he never tells anyone he went to WCL. Honestly, a blessing for WCL he transferred.

95- Lat sucks too and I hope all these assholes get sued for libel

what, pray, is WLC law?

and why would anyone care? this blog is for lawyers with jobs in big law, not jobs in big montana cow/pig law or whatever wlc grads do...not that there is anything wrong with big missouri pig/horse law, just that is not what this board is supposed to be about afaik

His nickname was "dickfish" because he was, and still remains, a massive dickfish.

i raise my hand backwards

1) Loved the story. Good post.

2) The habits of our resident gunner:

- Intellectually nibble on glasses each time he speaks.
- Pass off ideas as his own even though they were blatantly in the notes after the case.
- Instead of just raising his hand, he does the jesus hand (3 fingers up, 2 fingers down). Seriously, can't make this up. Not sure if its on purpose or subconscious.

While this post is stupid, in its defense I've met this kid at Harvard and he seems to be way more of a douche than the average person here.

Love the post. Why are people complaining about it? This type of thing is why I read ATL.

He has to mention that he transferred to Harvard, not just that he transferred....This guy is a douche and deserves to be called out.

I doubt the kid meant to respond to the whole class. He probably hit "reply" (not "reply all") and the moderator of the listserve approved it without realizing he just wanted off the list.

Still a douchey move though.

I don't think Elie meant to say that the WCL-HLS transfer guy made typos.

Rather, he meant if you think MY TYPOS give HLS a bad name, what about TRANSFER GUY's DOUCHINESS?

Perhaps the comparison is a bit too unorthodox for some of the simpler commenters. Allow me spell it out further.

Elie was not comparing his typing to transfer guy's typing. Instead, he was comparing his transgressions against HLS's reputation to transfer guy's typing.

Perhaps that's not enough. Try this.

The sentence "I didn't order the anal probe" has at least 6 different possible meanings, depending on which word you emphasize when you say it.

Perhaps that's what was confusing to some of you about Elie's post. In the sentence "And you guys think my typos give Harvard a bad name," the emphasis is on typos, not my.

waah, waah. whiney ass jealous ex-classmates want to complain about the kid, and the best they can come up with is that he raises his hand backwards?

125 nailed it, as did 105 and 106 (forget the spelling of listserve, what's with the comma...).

I love punkin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the funniest thing about this is every single student back at whatever shithole this guy transferred from *the post was too long, didn't read* would trade places with him in a minute...

Hello all,

I am an outsider reading a thread on this website for the first time. My conclusion: this is trash. You are all reading gossip and producing more of it. All well and good, but be considerate and don't possibly ruin somebody's career. I agree this person is easily identifiable. The moderator or this website should really be more respectful.

Hello all,

I am an outsider reading a thread on this website for the first time. My conclusion: this is trash. You are all reading gossip and producing more of it. All well and good, but be considerate and don't possibly ruin somebody's career. I agree this person is easily identifiable. The moderator or this website should really be more respectful.

How much do you want to bet all of the comments defending this dingle douche are all written by him. Except maybe 131 and 132. Those sound like his mom.

133 nailed it

The guy's name is David McCormick. From somewhere in god-awful Pennsylvania. Age is 29.

And yes, an epic douche.

-The Outer

Hey 135,

Nice job asshole. Why can't you just be happy that this person is no longer in your midst? Is it necessary to mock him after he is gone?

I'm ashamed to admit that I was once a student at WCL. Next time I'm in Wagshal's, I will spit on the floor to punish Spring Valley for your transgression.

Now stop being a douche and leave the kid alone. While you're at, why don't you out yourself?

135,

I hate you so much that I left out a word in my response to you. See the word in capital letters below. I regret the omission.

"Hey 135,

Nice job asshole. Why can't you just be happy that this person is no longer in your midst? Is it necessary to mock him after he is gone?

I'm ashamed to admit that I was once a student at WCL. Next time I'm in Wagshal's, I will spit on the floor to punish Spring Valley for your transgression.

Now stop being a douche and leave the kid alone. While you're at IT, why don't you out yourself?

AmericanTTT UniversiTTTy...what a toilet.

Would he have mentioned the law school if he was transferring to some community college law school? The bottom line is this was some pure, unadulterated douche baggery. Harvard should revoke the admission to keep it's d bag ratios in check.

As a WCL graduate, I can only say I wish my grades had been good enough to transfer.

WCL really is a school for the socially maladjusted and in fact prides it on that fact. It is now a stain that I will never be able to erase from my resume.

I would note that I got a job inspite of being a WCL graduate; very few of my classmates were as lucky.

135:

And where are you from ? Swanky Connecticut ? Hip California ? Ritzy Florida ?

And of course – you are attending WCL because you are passionate about Human Rights. And of course this makes you special. Yes you. You are special. You are a WCL student. One of the chosen !!! The traffic will stop for you as you cross Mass Ave to get your latte (with soy milk of course.)

But at least you don’t have to worry that acting like the piece of shit you are will be bad for WCL’s reputation. WCL is so widely acknowledged as a toilet, nothing you could do will matter.

Enjoy your career in legal aid you piece of shit.

135 here. I meant somewhere god-awful in Pennsylvania (i.e. some rural town in the pennsyltucky part of the state). I didn't intend to say that Pennsylvania is god-awful. My apologies.

When I was at YLS (several years ago), EVERYONE looked down on the transfer students. And they deserved it, because they were all douchebags who tended to talk a lot in class without much interesting to say. There was even informal efforts made to drum up support to stop the school from accepting transfer students.

I think this topic is fair game -- why is it always the douchebags who are transfering?

THIS IS MISERABLE. THERE IS NOTHING REDEEMING ABOUT THIS THREAD.

and even if this kid is the douche of the century, he shouldn't be called out online. you are all horrible, disgusting, self centered assholes if you think this is ok.

@Every Hater What do you get to decide who gets called out online by whom...guess what, if you don't like it, dont' fucking read it.

The bottom line is that everybody knows the guy is a douche, he "name-dropped". No matter what the circumstances, a name-dropper is always a douche bag. "When I was at Goldman Sachs" or "When I worked for Barack Obama" or "Harvey Weinstein called me into his office the other day"...that's all doucheyness and everybody knows it...

Now excuse me while I get back to bed, my girlfriend, ScarJo, is waiting for me.

transfers are scum.

Outing a law student before Elie is awake, transfer envy, and WCL bashing - this thread delivers!

But seriously, it IS irritating that the law student felt the need to name drop Harvard, but all Harvard students do that.

That said, the student may well have name dropped Harvard as a favor to his former WCL classmates, as it generates outrage. Giving a WCL student an excuse to be outraged is like giving a heroin addict a hit.

Finally, every year, the top 5% of WCL transfers. Everyone knows this. Virtually everyone at WCL would prefer to be at GULC or GW. In a way, this is a pity, as WCL has nice facilities and provides a basically decent education. If it were located in, say, Idaho, far from meaningful competition, it would have a happy well-adjusted student body looking to practice law in Idaho. Instead, it is filled with people rejected by GULC and GW.

-Transferred from WCL and never looked back

Can someone please out 135/142?

Oh, and as someone who went to a much higher ranked school than WCL, I wish I'd have thought about transferring after my 1L year. Might or might not have happened, but if I could have transferred to Harvard (or Yale or Stanford), it certainly would have made it possibly to obtain a SCOTUS clerkship. (Maybe not likely, but still possible.) As it is, I'm doing pretty okay for myself, but there are still glass cielings I can't crack because my school is "barely T-14." So going from WCL to Harvard is a huge step up. Maybe he shouldn't have handled it like this, but 135 should not have either.

--Devil in Disguise

149: maybe you could crack those glass ceilings if you were able to spell "ceilings" correctly.

this post is fair game. the transfer is obviously a douchey name-dropper, however there is a huge difference between being a douche and being scum. 135, you, sir, are scum. if the name you dropped is in fact the person in question, you deserve to be beaten by a pack of roving midgets. you suck.

-no caps man

in the practice of law, as in life, it is not a good thing to be thought of as a monstrous douchebag - especially before you've even finished law school.

i'm forever astounded at the number of complete douchebags making a living as lawyers. y'know what though? the non-douchebags have a LOT more success.

141 = WCL student.

Here are a few more stories from WCL for all of you amazed fellow students out there:

Upon opening his laptop in class everyday, he would blow the cat hair off his laptop all over me. I told him everyday that I was allergic to cats.

He has never worn a shoe with laces.

He blew his nose into the sleeve of his shirt all winter.

Another student in our section dressed up as him for Halloween. He did not notice.

(1) He didn't make a typo, stupid.

(2) We shouldn't mock someone publicly just because they have douche-y habits. You can't even jack off to that. This isn't like a Michigan 2L prostitute getting beaten. That's at least hot. This is stupid.

I was thinking of transferring from my T6 to HLS or YLS. I would like to save money in rent and to make it easier to get a job in a different field/country where people are less attuned to the USNWR rankings when my debts are paid. I am generally considered non-douche. On this holiest of days, can anyone comment on how this would influence my chances at OCI and whether or not they think it is worthwhile?

Also, this thread is awesome and that kid glugs man-nog. Gunners deserve what they get. We spend $200 per lecture to listen to the prof, not your meandering, digressing, tangential bullshit soliloquies.

I love this post. I know this kid and he actually seems pretty well adjusted.

140 you must have rolled with the outcast crowd of WCL who thought they were too cool for law school and didn't study. Every year some of those fucks graduate from WCL and every year they cry that it is WCL's fault that they don't have a job, when the reality is they didn't do shit for 3 years of law school except masturbate their egos.

My friends and I all got jobs at NYC firms. WCL is not a good enough school to guarantee jobs for all its graduates, but it is good enough so that those who put a modicum of effort in all get good jobs. I feel no pity for the lazy.

107,

HaHaHa

"102 -- transfers more or less smooth out admissions mistakes."

No they don't. They are just a way for law school to make more money.

No one likes tranfers besides other transfers.

If this guy is as big of a douche as everyone says, he would enjoy seeing his name on this site.

He would also say: "Fuck them. I am at Harvard Law School."

- An even bigger douche

@ 155

He did make a typo...

"I transferred to Harvard, and have no need to continue receiving emails from WCL."

It was grammatically incorrect to put a comma after Harvard.

32 = Trig Palin

harvard haters.

141 & 147

Having attended WCL and also the misfortune of frequenting a few GULC & GW parties I can attest that what we lack in V50 prowess we gain in glamor, both in our actual sex appeal and in the types of jobs we eventually land.

You may mock our focus on human rights and international development as an undesirable fashion statement for a respectable career in biglaw, but what can you say you idiots in biglaw are actually passionate about??

You are right many of our graduates will filter into government, public interest organizations, and policy jobs, but you assume incorrectly that the majority of WCL students go into these fields against their will.

Quite the opposite! We love the niche that WCL has carved out from the refuse that is the practice of law and we are thankful that the d-wads that populate the other D.C. schools provide us with little competition.

hls students should feel free to say Harvard when they refer to their school and repeat as often as they deem necessary or desirable.

the Harvard hate is sad. Anytime the word Harvard is mention in any context, a virtual riot ensues. sad. very sad.

When Penn’s mentioned on this site, no one thinks of it as subtle Penn trolling. But wait for a post about Harvard. Doesn’t matter if it’s pro or anti-harvard. Virtual rioting ensues.

Why is that? I’d wager that if the subject of this post had transferred to any other school but Harvard, there would be a lot fewer comments.

Ask yourself this before you post. Would you be posting if the word “Harvard” was replaced by “Columbia” in the post?

I would like to say a word about transfers for a moment.

I was a transfer. I went from a law school school in the top 50 to a T5. I'm not a douchebag. I avoided talking in class at all costs, and I adjusted very well to my new school. My move was part prestige (because if you say otherwise you're lying), but I really needed to switch for location reasons. I knew where I wanted to practice law and it absolutely wasn't where my old school was. I liked my old school. Good people, fantastic professors, etc. Just the wrong location.

I will say that not all transfers are like this. In my class of transfers we had one or two true gunners who gave us all a bad name. But I avoided those people. And I did my best to assimilate and make new friends quickly. And when I graduated most people didn't even realize I was a transfer.

So...stop the transfer hate!

167 - Assume the position.

I transferred to Harvard.

When I did so, I became acutely sensitive to the use of the school's name.

I agree that the school's name is name-dropped too much. This guy was clearly doing that. But I don't think name-dropping, even on a mass scale, warrants a permanent, public rebuke like this.

What's actually most impressive, I think, is that almost everyone I knew at Harvard was also very sensitive to the name, and did not advertise it when meeting people. ALMOST everyone; there are always exceptions.

In fact, most people avoid mentioning it until the last possible moment. You grow out of the "I go to law school in Boston...ok, Cambridge...ok, Harvard" thing and just say "Harvard" or "Boston" (if the latter is an acceptable answer given the way the question is asked) after a while, but the point is, you try to avoid drawing attention to it in social conversation.

Bottom line: most HLS people I know are not name-droppers. This guy is, but I'm not sure that's really blog-worthy.

Every single person I have known who went to Princeton save one was a HUGE Princeton name-dropper. But if someone said "take me off your unprestigious email list, I'm a fancy Princetonian!", I'm not sure that would be blog-worthy either.

PS to my post: as someone who was formerly a law student not at Harvard, I think people are overly sensitive to the use of the name.

If you ask or overhear where someone went to law school, and they simply say "Harvard" without doing the "Boston-->Cambridge/Harvard" dance, and you feel somehow offended, you need to ask yourself what you would have wanted the person to say.

If they do do that dance, don't assume it's automatically an effort to elongate the answer to the question. Most times I have done the dance, I have successfully avoided saying the name of the school. Arguably I should have just friggin said "Harvard," but I don't think I'm alone in not wanting where I went to law school to become the focus of a lot of attention or suck up the conversation.

Sure, you can tell yourself the *way* the person said the name of the school is somehow offensive, and maybe it was. But it is more likely that your own perception is to blame. If the person said "Columbia" or "UVA" in the same tone of voice, would you still be offended?

-169, aka Harvard Transfer Alum

This quote above made my day:

"Having attended WCL and also the misfortune of frequenting a few GULC & GW parties I can attest that what we lack in V50 prowess we gain in glamor, both in our actual sex appeal and in the types of jobs we eventually land."

This is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that insurance defense and contract work as a document reviewer were glamorous.

WCL is really a school for the refuse of society. They get strength from their numbers.

What I think is interesting is the number of WCL graduates who bash their school. I've seen it quite a bit in other threads.

What is wrong with that school that even it's own graduates will admit it's a school for pathetic losers ???

I can see getting bashed by students from other schools - but to have your own graduates admit their biggest regret was deciding to attend WCL ?

Many of you claim that everyone at Harvard name-drops like this, and that is simply not true. Yes, we use the name of the school occasionally, but many of us don't do it any more than anyone else at other schools.

This misconception is a good reason to call out egregious name-droppers like this guy, to make it clear that this kind of behavior is not normal and is unacceptable to most Harvard students too.

172 - These are the alumni who were bums in law school but read ATL religiously (the blog is quite popular at WCL) and developed the same sense of entitlement that prevails on this blog. Unfortunately for them being a bum at WCL and not having the academic pedigree of say GULC/Harvard does not get you far in life. Now they are pissed because they are down 150k and temping and the same sense of entitlement that landed them where they are also prevents them from taking responsibility for their own pathetic destiny. People should stick to the age old adage, you reap what you sow.

The rest of us are doing quite well though, thanks.

I usually frown at the immature, mean-spirited posts, but 11, that was hilarious!

Elie is the Jason Blair of blogging. Affirmative Action baby.

26 & 81: read Hamlet.

173: The hilariously ironic thing about your post is that it basically was a meta-name-drop.

"We HARVARD students condemn this name-dropping practice. I'm a student at HARVARD, and I've talked to many of my fellow HARVARD classmates, and have concluded that, at HARVARD, we will not tolerate name-dropping of HARVARD..."

178: 173 clearly did not say that. You are imagining things.

See post 170 (contending that it's not all, but mostly, in your head).

169 & 170: I'd agree that if Harvard actually comes up naturally in conversation (someone asks you where you went to law school), that's completely fine. However, there are more than enough Harvard students / alums who take any available opening to name drop -- "Oh, I had a prof at Harvard who..." or "At Harvard, I got to..." and the like, where it would have been just as suitable to mention the same thought without the word Harvard in there to inflate the kid's ego. Thankfully for you, you haven't run into that many of them, but you'll have to take my word that there are plenty floating around.

Although the stereotype of the egotistical, self-centered, self-promoting Harvard student is unfair to some (perhaps you and those you knew who didn't name drop), there are countless others who keep it going. Sorry that the the non-arrogant Harvard kids get caught in the stereotype, but the jerks at your school are ruining it for everyone else and sadly, there seem to be a disproportionate number of jerks who make it to Harvard ugrad, HLS, etc.

166 -- When someone tries to brag about Penn, people just laugh or make a Penn State joke. That's a perfectly appropriate response to bragging that's not even justified. It's one thing for the Harvard kids to brag about Harvard -- don't get me wrong, they're complete assholes, but at least they have something to brag about. The Penn kids are just altogether delusional if they think Penn is worthy of showing off compared to other top schools.

159, explain then why transfers on average end up with higher GPAs, even ignoring 1L performance, than the rest of their new law school class. Face it, a lot of the kids finishing in the bottom 20% of a law school class were probably admissions mistakes. Yes, someone's got to end up there, but odds are, some of the people who did just ended up slacking / not trying at all -- not exactly the type of student top law schools hope to admit. If the schools could replace you with more highly motivated students who they didn't initially admit, they would. Since they can't just replace you with them, just admitting transfers is the next best thing.

And to be fair, there's definitely a cash cow aspect to taking transfers, especially because they don't get much, if any, financial aid. However, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

180 -

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Maybe I've just was fortunate to encounter an unrepresentative cross-section. I guess my feeling is just that, frankly, when people ask where you went to law school, you have little choice but to say the name of the school, and saying "Harvard," particularly if you need to say it somewhat loudly to be heard at a bar or party, often makes the conversation awkward.

So, I try studiously to avoid it, and I certainly don't gratuitously mention the school's name--as in, "At Harvard, we had terrific cheese doodles in the cafeteria!" (though I do enjoy a good cheese doodle). Like I said, though, people I know from Princeton will actually do this. Shamelessly.

Anyway, I guess we can agree on the following: (1) some people at Harvard love to name-drop, (2) perhaps more so than at other schools, and (3) saying you went to Harvard, even in response to a direct question, sometimes makes the conversation awkward and places the alum in an uncomfortable position. Cry me a river, I know, but I think that that Catch-22 is a fair point that needs to be mentioned if you're complaining about the name-dropping minority versus those alums who are proud but (hopefully) unpretentious.

-169/170

At Harvard, they call announcing that you went to Harvard "dropping the H-bomb." Apparently, the expectation is that the listener will somehow fall into an awed silence, scarcely believing his/her good fortune to be in the presence of a Harvard alum and unsure of how to interact with someone who is so obviously a social and intellectual superior.

You people are crazy. Get. A. Life.

To all the people who are criticizing WCL-

I went to WCL, had an amazing time (both socially and academically), made life-long friends, and I am currently an associate at a V25 firm. And to disprove what previous posters have said, I'm not doing insurance defense or personal injury.

It's not a school for everyone. Although, as I recall, the people who did transfer out to other schools tended to be the prestige whores that no one wanted at the school to begin with. For the people who stayed, it was like an extended family. When one student's apartment had a fire, other students at the school pitched in to help the student out financially. When one student lost all his outlines after his computer crashed, he received dozens and dozens of outlines from other classmates. Going to WCL and becoming a part of this community was one of the best decisions that I have ever made. I feel pity for all of you who are suffering through miserable law school experiences with intolerable classmates just so you can graduate and name drop where you went to law school. For all of your suffering, in the end, you and I (a WCL alum) will make the exact same salary.

I transferred from WCL to a t14 [non-GULC] and it was the best decision ever. I wasn't even top 10% at WCL. Honestly, I don't know why more people there don't put in the effort to transfer....

BTW, is Dean Jaffe still obsessing constantly about his image? I know he's reading this -- Hi Dean Jaffee! Miss you bunches xoxo!

186 is missing the non-prestige-whore reason for going to a better school over a worse school: I highly doubt that your average WCL students gets a V25 firm job or even necessarily any firm job. Kudos to you for having done so, but odds are, unless you finished in the top quarter to third of the WCL class, you're going to have a very tough time getting into BigLaw at all, much less a top Vault firm.

From your vantage point, it's very easy to say that you suffered no disadvantage attending WCL over a higher ranked law school, but how about your classmates who weren't fortunate / smart enough to do as well at WCL? I bet many of them would be willing to sacrifice a little camaraderie (which seems a bit exaggerated in your account) for a lot of extra job security, especially in today's market.

WCL IS A TOILET. MARYLAND OWNS ITS ASS. 3% OF OUR GRADUATES GET BIGLAW IN THIS ECONOMY.

WCL IS A TOILET. MARYLAND OWNS ITS ASS. 3% OF OUR GRADUATES GET BIGLAW IN THIS ECONOMY.

186-

doubt you'd be saying the same if you didn't have top grades and a v25 job

The education and training at WCL is very good, notwithstanding its seemingly perennial upper-40's ranking in USNWR. The professors are great, the course selection is extensive, its moot court teams fare very well against teams from other, often higher-ranked, law schools, etc. Dean Grossman, a highly-respected figure in the legal community, is doing a fabulous job. The only but huge problem WCL has is its ranking, which naturally makes finding a job at a BigLaw firm as a 2L or 3L very difficult (as with other similarly-ranked schools). The ranking also has a demoralizing effect on many of the students even before they enroll, especially on those who graduated from top undergraduate institutions and aspired to be at a higher-ranked law school, thereby dampening school spirit. The reason many WCL graduates have mixed feelings about the school is because of the limited employment opportunities stemming from its ranking, and not because of the quality of its education. I too am one of those with mixed feelings, but I can honestly say that I received great training at WCL, and I am also proud to be one of the too few who donate to the school. Having studied at both WCL and GULC, and having practiced at V25 law firms for over ten years, I can attest that the quality of the students/graduates from WCL is not significantly different compared to those from T15 schools.

Thus I find the posts about “TTT” and “toilet” in reference to WCL to be stupid, immature, and insulting. I do not know which law schools these posters attended or where they work, and frankly, I don’t care because that is not important at all. These posters, who so easily throw out the term “TTT” as an epithet towards any law school that is not T15, are shallow, unimaginative people who have completely and slavishly bought into the ranking system. I find it hard to believe any of them can be a decent lawyer.

On a less serious note, the guy who transferred to HLS and the subject of this thread did act like a douche bag when he sent that email to the entire school and deserves to be called out for it (although not by name).

- not 186

192 = TTT

188

To respond to your comment, I was not in the top 50% at WCL but I wrote articles and worked on the side. I know other people who also had low class rankings when they graduated, but are currently in top firm and government jobs.

People at HLS make open fun of some of the notorious personalities, but none of this person's tics sound at all familiar. There aren't that many transfer students either. So either he's toned down his act since he transferred, changed his habits, or else his reputation at his old school is a bit exaggerated.

Not exaggerated. He's actually a decent guy once you get to know him, but these accounts are pretty bang on. And don't forget that he's only been around for a semester--lots of time to build a reputation for himself

This thread shouldn't be about Harvard name dropping.

It should be about how f*ing annoying transfers are.

Also, while transfers might have better grades than the main student body at some schools I'd bet that that isn't true at places like HLS.

who cares where this douche goes to school? - it's not like any law student is going to get a job in the next few years. Harvard or WCL, you're all screwed.

for those of you who are critical of language/syntax, i'll beg your pardons now, as i'm to lazy to capitalize, use ellipses frequently to punctuate my thoughts, and my 9th grade english teacher once called me the comma queen, so run-on sentences/extremely long clauses will abound in the next few sentences...fyi. i'm a 2l at wcl and i was in the same section as this guy, so maybe my thoughts can help contextualize the responses about his personality/behavior and the email.

a) wcl sends WAY too many emails--you get them from every westlaw TWEN group, every class that you may sign up for and drop later, every person that wants a mass message sent through dean jaffe (dean of students), and daily updates from the main AU campus (separate from the law school), so that IS pretty annoying. that being said...

b) he's not as bad as the email sounds...some may call it a personality disorder, others call him obnoxious/douchebag, i personally find him funny and kind of endearing...he doesn't try to be anything that he's not, and is WAY less pretentious than people make him out to be. seriously, raising his hand backwards? again, i was in class with him, but i never noticed that...i guess it takes a person really zeroed in on everything about him to take note. the hands behind the head thing...true, but i don't know that it was more about arrogant posture b/f a class comment, rather than just the manner in which he sat (b/c he sat that way when he wasn't commenting)...again, i don't know what it is about him that bothered/unnerved people so much. perhaps because he was smart and thoughtful, and people hated that because they thought they deserved his grades more...you could tell he was in school to learn--asking questions is simply apart of that. idk...

c) he's actually pretty thoughtful which is why he provided a lot of context to his comments re: where he came from and how it shaped what he thought, etc...i thought this was an especially meaningful contribution to class discussions...not just mindlessly accepting that supreme court justices and blackletter was some standard of objectivity that had nothing to do with the things that color every person's perspective (i.e. the things that he would mention in class). i don't think it was that deep. he wasn't being a gunner for being a gunner's sake, he raised his hand to make contributions to the class discussion...i thought that was what learning was about, developing each other's analyses--iron sharpening iron/stone sharpening stone...maybe not though... people were annoyed with him b/c law school is supposed to make us robots and he interfered with the robot-making process frequently...shame on him...

d) lastly, i still keep in contact with him...he's on my g-chat list (we're not besties or anything), but to be completely honest he told me about it right after it happened...he felt really bad about it...he wasn't trying to be a jerk or a name-dropper, he really was trying to get off of the email list, and after having to deal w/ a host of other wcl housekeeping/administrative issues, he thought he was just removing himself from one more list...he actually sent another (self-deprecating) email when he realized he sent it to the entire list-serve...people aren't that 2-dimensional, it's already hard enough being in law school--nay waking up in the morning and being a person...give the guy a break.

199-
you are a crayzy biotch

I agree with 192 and am a fellow WCL alum who is also 10+ years out of law school (back when WCL was ranked much lower). Spent several years as an associate with a top BIGLAW firm and then went in house with a major corporation for which many HYS graduates would beg to work (this is a fact, as I see their resumes cross my desk quite frequently).

I was in the top 5% of WCL my first year, and seriously considered transferring. At the time, however, I wanted to stay in D.C. and continue building my network of contacts. Likewise, GULC wasn't taking intra-city transfers (i.e. people who already lived in D.C.), and it made no financial sense to transfer to GW (which charged substantially more in tuition). So I stayed and made the best of things.

Barring a few exceptions, where you went to law school does not guaranty success in the legal profession over the long term. Your ambition, experience and connections mean far more than the name on your law school diploma. But if bragging that you went to a T14 school helps you sleep at night, go ahead and tell your friends, family or even complete strangers on the street. Just don't tell me about it when you're asking for a job. I don't really care.

Let's look at some of the law schools "out-ranking" WCL:

* Emory (please...)

* Univ. of Minnesota (really, why?)

* Illinois, Iowa, Ohio State, Alabama, Maryland, Wisconsin... (who thinks any of these are impressive?)

There's no question that WCL's location alone makes for a better law school experience than any of these other schools. I don't doubt these schools do a better job at self-promoting than WCL, and WCL should do a better job in the advertising department. But if you think you can gain better legal knowledge/experience in the middle of Ohio or Alabama than D.C, you're an idiot.

I went to T1 WCL, and I'm making six figures. Happy New Year!

Why is this guy still checking his old email address? And then complaining that oldschool emails are in his @oldschool.edu inbox?

Or, he added his gmail to a law school listserv, and they are supposed to figure out that he transferred on their own?

Also, this is not newsworthy. Fortunately, however, this site is not a news source anymore.

200-maturity becomes you. glad you made it into (or out of) law school. i'm sure the world's a better place because of it.

174 = WCL Dean Jaffee.

Hi Dean Jaffee ! Nice to see you are not slacking off in your pathetic role as school booster.

And how's that toad Dean Grossman - still promoting himself in his god awful English ?

You have it all wrong 192. The hatred stems from WCL's incompetent administration. True, the student body was described perfectly by 186, and I can’t complain about a majority of the profs, but the administration is god awful. This is almost certainly the reason why WCL will never raise in the rankings and why no recent alumni have any intention to give the school a dime.