thirsty?

Good god. What a blood bath- half of the associates live, the other half die. Any other word on how things are shaking out over there?

Ignorant fat ass

first??

WARN has been a useless statute throughout its existance. But no one here gave a shit when it was avoided (probably with the help of some people reading this) for thousands of industrial workers. Now, however, everyone is whistling a different tune...

I don't understand the "we bailed out the banks, so now they have to spend that money to bail out others" argument. Did we bail them out so they would survive or not? Cause forcing them to piss away their money on helping out debtors who can not pay the money back is a sure way to kill these banks.

Which would you rather:

1) Get raw dog freak nasty with a CWT NY 05 associate, or
2) Get let go by TPW 2 days before xmass?

this pseudo merger is bullshit, practically fraud. The majority of TPW's partners are just dodging their creditors.

If I were an associate there, I would take home everything that wasn't bolted down (esp. computers). Tell the firm they will get their stuff back when you get your WARN Act check.

Death to the infidels!

The first firm to go in 2008 - well I'd take a look at sonnenschein with its 100 new useless structured finance people.

The first firm to go in 2009 - well I'd take a look at sonnenschein with its 100 new useless structured finance people.

8-
the only choice is 2. my sense of self-respect precludes 1

First firm in 2009: McKee Nelson

"At least Sonnenschein was able to step in a save a lot of jobs"

At least I was able to proof a read a my worka.

I second 14's choice.

There needs to be a post (or at least an informed comment) on the WARN act from an employment/labor lawyer. All I know about it is from a few cases in Employment Law back in law school and it seemed to me to be a joke even back then. What (meaningful) protection DOES it give to employees in situations like these law firm dissolutions?

LAW FIRM DEADPOOL TIME!

1. McKee Nelson
2. Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft
3. ?

Do TPW 2008 Summer Associates stand a chance?

Do TPW 2008 Summer Associates stand a chance?

I continue to demand access to the pretzels/thirsty/peanuts/cheese inside joke(s).

Elie,

You, pass-the-buck Heller partners, and Illinois politicians are missing the whole point on bank loans:

Banks do not employ TPW lawyers. Banks lend to TPW partners and expect to get paid back. If TPW partners won't put up collateral or personal guarantees to get more loans then they are to blame for not paying their employees. What does a third-party financing have to do with employee salaries?
****

"Our partnership is breaking up and we are taking our personal assets and clients to another firm, where we will continue to be millionaires. Unfortunately, Elie Mystal has informed us that he will not give us money to pay your salaries. As you can see, this is clearly beyond our control and Elie is a bad person, but our hands are tied; we have to lay you off with no severance. Again, this is solely due to Elie's not giving us his money to pay you.

Best regards,

Partnership of TPW"

http://www.doleta.gov/programs/factsht/warn.htm

The exceptions to 60-day notice are:

(1) Faltering company. This exception, to be narrowly construed, covers situations where a company has sought new capital or business in order to stay open and where giving notice would ruin the opportunity to get the new capital or business, and applies only to plant closings;

(2) unforeseeable business circumstances. This exception applies to closings and layoffs that are caused by business circumstances that were not reasonably foreseeable at the time notice would otherwise have been required; and

(3) Natural disaster. This applies where a closing or layoff is the direct result of a natural disaster, such as a flood, earthquake, drought or storm.

As you can imagine, you can drive a truck through the loopholes of #1 and #2. There also are rules about when the number of layoffs triggers the Act which don't mesh with today's more decentralized economy:

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/12/23/layoff_warning_law_falls_short/
companies are required to give two-month notice of layoffs if they cut 500 or more jobs at one location, or if less than 500, only when the number of affected positions is at least one-third of its workforce. The law also exempts some cases if layoffs were caused by "unforeseeable business circumstances."

Any word on the first years/stubs?

I am taking up a collection to raise money for the purchase of an empathy sheep for all of TPW's fallen associates to nail and hopefully feel better.

We get the government we deserve... after electing right-wing Republicans for over a decade, what did you expect?

25: Yes, the "word" is that they are now sending out resumes again. When a firm dissolves, it's management doesn't help would-be first years find alternative employment.

A&P announced bonuses. Same as last year, but compensation for 2009 is yet to be determined.

BITCH SPREAD THOSE BUTT CHEEKS SO I CAN SMELL THE JUICY DISSOLUTION INSIDE!

-GULC 2L

27= (still?)bitter left-wing jackass who feels compelled to add useless political commentary in every post. Go drive your volkswagen off a cliff. You're not welcome in my sweet home, South Carolina.

"Is anybody else starting to wonder if the WARN act needs to be strengthened? What is the point of promising people 60 days salary if nationalized banks can simply stop payments at their discretion? "

This is bunk. The banks should not come out of pocket to pay these expenses. The former partners of TPW should be held accountable for their legal obligations -- not some bank.

By the way, as pointed out in another thread, WARN obligations are not absolute. The requirement to pay 60 days can be nixed, for example, if the layoffs were not reasonably foreseen 60 days prior. (i.e., the failing company doctrine). http://www.lawmemo.com/articles/warn.htm That could apply here -- or in the case of Heller.

Shut up zombie Calhoun, you're dead.

@ 20-21:

"Do TPW 2008 Summer Associates stand a chance? "

BITCH SPREAD THE BUTT CHEEKS SO I CAN SMELL THE JUICY INSIDES!

*steals hamburgers*

Wow, a new batch of characters that suck. I know Elie is an abomination of an editor, but please.

John C Calhoun-
This schtick has potential.

Please tell me how nullification would have affected the collapse of TPW?

@19

3. Reed Smittth

32 -- do you really not think any of these dissolutions were not "reasonably foreseeable"? How many posts about a pending dissolution were on ATL about each one of these firms?

22 -- There is a line from an old Seinfeld episode where Jerry says "These pretzels are making me thirsty!" At some point one of the wits that reads ATL decided to change "thirsty" to "firsty" when making a first post: "These pretzels are making me firsty! Not sure about the peanuts/cheese joke(s).

Too bad for those left behind at TPW.

22/40-
The "pretzels" quote is from a Seinfeld episode in which Kramer gets a part on a Woody Allen movie, and his one line in the movie is "These pretzels are making me thirsty." The other castmembers (George, Elaine, Jerry) make fun of it by way of doing their own hammed-up riffs on the line.

39-No, I do not not think any of these dissolutions were not reasonably foreseeable.

Speaking of lines from Seinfeld... Giving a WARN Act notice is kind of like taking a reservation. "Anyone can TAKE a reservation. It's the KEEPING the reservation that's the hard part."

Perhaps the only way to make WARN effective is to require employers to establish WARN escrows that they cannot control. Otherwise, when a company is in bad enough shape that it needs to conduct a "mass layoff" or "plant closing," that's likely when it will be least able to fulfill its statutory obligations.

And in the case of Heller, the firm knew it was in trouble for at least a year. Indeed, word on the street was that Heller would have conducted its own major layoffs had the firm not gone under first..

43, how about just making unpaid salaries and WARN Act money for workers the #1 bankruptcy priority? Above even secured debt?

Dear lawyers,

So if I'm a bank and I lend money to a business, and the business fails and goes into bankruptcy/liquidation, I'm supposed to give more money to the business? Is it a loan, or am I now in the business of giving out free money as charitable gifts? Are the employees supposed to pay me back later? And if I don't give away money, that's "ironic"?

Guys, please stay far away from anything business-related, thanks. I take solace in the fact that the fat man is following my advice.

This is just more of the same - firm has trouble, rainmakers jump ship, firm tries to merge, merger suitor spurns firm and cherry picks the wheat. Bottom line is, as I wrote here - http://tinyurl.com/9tmzxz - that law firms offer false security. I'd take the no security of solo practice any day.

This is just more of the same - firm has trouble, rainmakers jump ship, firm tries to merge, merger suitor spurns firm and cherry picks the wheat. Bottom line is, as I wrote here - http://tinyurl.com/9tmzxz - that law firms offer false security. I'd take the no security of solo practice any day.

Wow. Everyone seems so cheery that 100 attorneys were saved by Sonn. 40 of those were partners. So 60 were associates. Why is no one talking about how many careers this TTT law firm ruined. NONE of the First years were absorbed by Sonn. TTThacher has been laying off first years (although the firm calls them buyouts) ever since the first massacre last year. Some assface's ego let the firm get built up so much that they over hired, ultimately causing gullible 3L's to accept permanent offers after their summer, and ultimately get fired because the firm was trying to play with the big boys even though no one at the firm could argue their way out of a paper bag. Fucking douche bags. Way to go.

well 37, the associates and partners who were not benifitted by the proposed Merger of Abominations should have come together and voted it down as unconstituional under their firm bylaws.

Next, the 100 leaving to Sonnenschein would authorize military force against the upstarts. This would eventually lead to the dissenters taking the offer of a slightly improved severance and unemployment.

Of course, If I were present I would resign my post.

What's up with the managing partner being hired by Sonnenschein? I mean he sank his old firm - what sane business would you want him? These law firms are strange.

BTW, some of the laid off people have to work. Not just show up. They actually have to work, some of them even over the weekend possibly. How f*cked up is that.

24, thanks for the boring regurg of the obvious. But as 18 noted, more substantive issue is whether there is any meaningful protection for employees let go in law firm dissolutions, especially if firms have no funds to pay WARN paychecks.

Also, anyone who thinks, like 42, that dissolutions by TPW, Heller, etc. were not "reasonably foreseeable" need to revisit that concept over the holidays. Law partners aren't the best biz people but even they grasp basic check book math.

51, maybe you should revisit your career choice over the holidays.

You did not parse 42's words very well. He said the exact opposite of what you think he/she said.

I heard that 2 partners from Thacher are joining DLA - are they taking any associates with them?

I'm very surprised that Bob McCarthy was involved in killing TPW and shirking his responsibilities to that firm - he used to be so religious and ethical - I guess money became more important to him than morals - so sad that he sold out...

I'm also surprised by Bob McCarthy - he used to be such an upstanding guy. And why the hell did Sonnenschein take on Erik Klingenberg? Are they hoping that he sexually harasses some of their female associates?

king & spalding is also on the ropes

rumor is that they must merge with someone or they will go under

couldn't happen to bigger group of sociopaths

54/55 you are an idiot and don't know anything about the situation. Bob McCarthy killed himself to try to keep as many people as possible from the firm together and resisted associate layoffs over the last year more than any other partner. The truth is that the firm was not viable beyond 12/31 and the alternative was that it would have dissolved without saving ANY jobs - partners, associates or staff.

I lost out in this deal but I'll still stand up for Bob McCarthy. 54, you're just trying to hurt him where he lives because you are angry. Your remarks are mean, cheesy and false. He's a good man.

54/55, you're just being spiteful. I don't personally know Bob, but for God's sake the firm was going to go under entirely and he managed to save 100 lawyers and presumably some staff. The alternative was the entire firm being out of a job. Your comments make zero sense.

If you want to take a shot at partners in this whole deal, the litigators claim that their chairman, who was directly involved in the talks with K&S, took off without even saying goodbye or that he was leaving, let alone explaining why he was abandoning his department. His bio claims he is a Navy man, but you'd hope the Navy teaches at least some leadership qualities, or at least some minimal amount of professionalism. Richard Hans, way to go!

The partners all did their very best, especially Bob, to cut a deal that benefited the most people. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't know the facts. That the firm found itself in that position in such a short amount of time was/is shocking and painful, and it is further compounded by the fact that not everyone was able to benefit from the deal, including quality attorneys and loyal staff. It is a sad time for us all, as it marks the end of a very good run. Hopefully '09 brings everyone the good things they all deserve.

Whats happening with TPW's admin staff, does anyone care about the little people.

For those of us who were left out in the cold, the idea of going to work is nausating. Right now I am focusing solely on finding another job. My blackberry is now turned off.

I'm sure the partners thats heading to Sonnenschein dont really give a shit about the little people cause their making the nice fat pay checks. Remember this, what goes around, comes around !!!!

Cancer is too good for the greedy scum who destroyed TPW

Instead of trying to rehabilitate a firm that's now in a shambles because of their bad business sense, the partners leaving TPW for Sonnenschein are killing one of the country's oldest law firms, walking away from their obligations and selling their souls to the devil. What a sad bunch of people. Good work Paul Tventenstrand, Bob McCarthy, et al.

TPW is making non-legal employees who are not going to Sonnenschein come in for the next 60 days even if they sit there and twiddle their thumbs, and if they don't do it (or call in sick for just 1 day) then TPW will consider them as left and refuse them any Unemployment pay, and they say there are NO exceptions. How about if someone is really sick? Or what about the secretary who is due to have a baby early February? Gee, maybe she can just come in and give birth on the managing partner's desk.

TPW and its current and former partners make me sick. Now that Tvetenstrand has officially left the firm, who's in charge over there and making these stupid decisions?

Bob McCarthy's involvement in the dissolution of TPW shocks me. I never thought he'd sell out so many of his colleagues.

68 - In the long run, no one gives a shit about anyone. Everyone for themselves. In my opinion, since TPW went downhill, everyone is out for themself, but when times are good, everyone is your friend.

Robert E. McCarthy - Formerly of Thacher Proffitt before selling out to Sonnenschein and hurting so many - How do you sleep at night?